Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

@JaxonH I think we're getting to the end of the crossgen period. Big releases like Gotham Knights are skipping last gen and you also have PSVR2 on the PS5 front (given the promotion so far it seems an early 2023 release is likely, probably a big part of this year's PS Showcase if they do one). Improved performance for last gen games is a nice benefit though.

I do think however that Switch lineup is so insane that you don't really need another system unless there's games you really want that isn't on Switch and is unlikely to come.

And yet I still found some of 3rd party multi console games such as Youtubers Life 2, Team Sonic Racing, Portal Knights, Dragon Quest Builders 2 have worse performance on Switch version than PS4 version.

@Anti-Matter
Yeah, I agree with this. I noticed some latency and performance issues on some of the newer Switch games I've played like Digimon Survive.

I think that's a fair enough point. JRPGs often have an issue of being at their least interesting early on, even when they do a standard story they often build towards actual investment in it and don't always effectively grab people at the start.

My point was less to dismiss Bioshock (though I don't think interesting thematic elements automatically make every aspect of it more interesting than what it is (occasionally it makes it disappointing compared to its high points)), and more to say that the end of the day, the mainstream video game is going to mainstream video game and so this interesting tale about a city falling under its objectivist ideals is still interested in you hating the villain for more basic reasons and still expects you to not be a child hater. Too broad an audience not to. Bioshock has a final boss because video games have final bosses, and perhaps no video game has felt more like "well we need a final boss so..." then Bioshock (with maybe the exception of that one Matrix game where the Wachowskis literally appear to say something somewhat similar to that effect). And whether that actually adds to the experience or not is subjective (it didn't for me, but I don't hate the end game of Bioshock like I've seen some people say).

@TheMelodiusRose
I have compared with same games I have (in this case Portal Knights, Youtubers Life 2, Dragon Quest Builders 2) from Switch and PS4 version and those games look better on PS4 version with stable 60 fps than the Switch version with 30 fps (and sometimes below than 30 fps on certain places).

@Maxenmus, replying to your earlier comment where you said western publishers only bring over the mainstream JRPGs & not the niche/unconventional ones.

While this may have been true in the 80's/90's into the 00's, can you think of any modern "unconventional" JRPGs that are staying in Japan? AFAIK, pretty much all JRPGs make it overseas these days, even the remakes of the "unconventional" ones that skipped us the first time around (like Live A Live).

@kkslider5552000 It's a fair point on its own, your criticism of Bioshock's imperfection, but not when it's in terms of "how much it appeals to me than JRPGs." For any imperfection it has, at least it tries to be interesting with its thematics. If this is solely a criticism of whether Bioshock is a perfect game or not, on the other hand, I would've agreed with you.

@TheMelodiusRose So? That's still not a reason why I should pay my hard-earned cash and support the Switch over the more stable Playstation games.

@RR529 Probably true. To be fair, my statement was based more on my knowledge of visual novel localization than the JRPG kind. I haven't really been recommended any JRPGs that seem "unconventional" to be honest. Even Live A Live seems like it's just a dimensional-hopping or time travel adventure paying homage to different time periods or something rather than featuring any serious themes I might be interested in.

@skywake You are not wrong that their backwards compatibility is non-existent, but most people that bring up the past problems of Nintendo closing the eShops and such seem to fail to remember that you can still download those games again even if the store is shutdown. Maybe there have been hiccups, but from reading things, it doesn't seem like people have been totally cut off from their digital library forever. You can also just get SD cards and always have them stored rather than relying on downloading them again somewhere down the road. Obviously they can break at some point, but I don't think it happens that often as I've had one for my phone for well over a decade and it still works like it always has.

I'm not saying you're wrong or that Nintendo isn't well behind the times in certain areas like backwards compatibility or having access to your back catalog. Obviously you have a lot more experience with things than I do given that this is my first Nintendo system since the NES. As long as you're willing to continue to have a Switch around to play these games and spend money on SD cards, I do think going all digital is an option people could go with without living in fear.

With that said, I still have yet to decided which way I'd go. I only own 2 games digitally so far, so I could go either way pretty easily. I do have to say that it is annoying that Nintendo rarely ever discounts many of their 1st party games on the eShop, and I could get several of them right now physically from Best Buy for around $50 each. Paying $60 (technically $57 since you get $3 worth of points when you buy a $60 game) for 5 year old games like Super Mario Odyssey, no matter how good the game is, does kind of suck, and knowing these games will always be that expensive does put a bit of a damper on things.

@TheMelodiusRose
Or perhaps I was simply making a casual observation in an Internet forum pointing out what faults I saw rather than making an objective expert statement of the Switch's quality. My point was more about whether if I would spend my money on Switch games or PS games if such performances become a factor in my shopping decision (it usually isn't a factor).

I mean the disagreement is that both at the end of the day still have to do certain things to appeal to an audience while doing an interesting theme. FFVII has a save the world adventure theme but if you see how things go thematically, ESPECIALLY with its ending, it certainly has some stuff worth thinking about, I'll just say that.

I don't really care much if JRPG cliches are a deal breaker or not to you, I just think its interesting to look at how mainstream game stories work and I thought it was a worthwhile point to make. I don't make every reply to someone for the sole purpose of definitively countering their opinion, like I'm playing Ace Attorney. :V (especially since I think Bioshock is great in most regards and Human Revolution is one of my favorite games of the past decade)

I thought that's how most people "talk" on the Internet. Just an exchange of "Your opinion is wrong so I must counter yours." lol Just kidding.

Yeah, I'll give FFVII a look. I thought the argument discussion though was more about how adventure stories work in JRPGs rather than just mainstream stories alone?

Also, technically, Bioshock's theme was anything but mainstream in spite of its mainstream gameplay and obligatory villain. If more games, western or otherwise, try to be as ambitious as Bioshock by going outside of the mainstream themes in their game universe, I might have bought more modern games. For example: Papers, Please is an interesting one that tackles immigration issues in a dystopian setting. If that game had Bioshock-level graphics, I would've probably been interested in it. Unfortunately, most of these unique game concepts are relegated to the indie game industry because the mainstream game industry is too busy rehashing the same kinds of games over and over again.

I do kinda get your point though about JRPGs and FFVII, how they have a seemingly cliched story but it's actually a front for richer concepts beneath. I guess my problem is whether if I'll be spending more than 50% of my time in a stereotypical adventure theme before "I get to the good part." It's like when someone recommends you a movie you might not be interested in but tells you "Just keep watching till the good part." With how grindy RPGs and especially JRPGs can be, I'd be spending an awful lot of time in that world, so the last thing I would want to be caught in is a universe I have little interest in exploring further, regardless of what deeper themes it might hold within.

That is a worthwhile concern. I didn't feel interested enough to beat any of the handful of JRPGs I bought on 3DS and for two of them grinding was part of the issue, so those were not the best use of money I've had. And I do wish more modern mainstream JRPGs were closer to the 20 or so hours the genre used to be.

@TheMelodiusRose
I saw a completely different quality from the same games I have (Switch and PS4 version) and I like to play my PS4 version more than Switch version for having better performance.
I mean, I still prefer 60 fps than 30 fps.
Also, I still support both of Switch and PS4 machines but when talking about 3rd party multi console games, I will pick the PlayStation version for better performance and my Switch still get the games from 1st party and 3rd party exclusive on Switch. Win win solution.

@NeonPizza
I won't go so far as to say my PS5 was "worth it" as I never actually play the thing. But I definitely don't regret it. But ppl like us can buy pretty much whatever we want. I try to look at things from the perspective of someone for whom it would be a major financial decision. Would it be worth it for someone like that vs just using their PS4? Not so sure. At least, not yet anyways.

@Grumblevolcano
Cross gen will eventually wind down, but I still think we're years away. Nearly 2 yrs in there's like 21m PS5s and 16m Xboxes, and that's accounting for scalped units and all. I think it's gonna be a good 4 years into the generation before we actually start seeing more games release for current gen than cross gen.

@Anti-Matter
I saw a completely different quality from the same games I have

Of course you did. In no universe will you ever play a portable hybrid version of a game that exhibits no difference in quality from stationary power platforms. If you don't care about the portable aspect then sure, there's no appeal in playing a hybrid version. But for anyone with even the slightest interest in handheld or tabletop play, the difference in quality is astonishingly negligible in many cases. Team Sonic Racing, for example, already runs at 1080p on Switch (I think?) but it also runs at a locked 30fps while the PS4 version has an unlocked framerate that bounces from 40 to 60 and feels even less fluid than the Switch version. That's not always the case, but point being its not automatic the performance is always better or if it is, that it's notably better.

I beat the final boss on Live a Live. It was pretty damn tough, went down to two party members left standing, had to absolutely soam the healing items but I got there in the end. I'd probably say some of the other end of Chapter bosses were actually harder or least more frustrating.

Sadly, I got the incomplete bad ending because this chapter is so obtuse. However, I still need to play the Alternative Final Chapter, so I might reload my save and go for the Good Ending too, so I can say it's truly complete.

I know that probably sounds negative, but assuming I can't use the PC version of Rise as it's a rerelease or Sunbreak as it's an expansion, this is my GOTY so far.

Yes the difficulty is all over the place. And yeah, some of the chapters are just kinda nothingness or actually kinda bad. And yes this is still very much a game from the 90s and they've tried to keep the experience intact which can lead to some frustrations when played in modern times but when this game is firin', it just outweighs any negative.

From the gorgeous visuals, style, colour lighting and animations. To just the sheer amount of ambition, innovation and inspiration that just seeps through every aspect of this. Even when chapters aren't something I enjoyed overall, there's still always something to just be in awe about it. The level of polish, love and refinement through all of it is just unlike things you often see today, with so many games feeling like they were just shoved out the door.

And like I say, there is the odd design decision which is so annoyingly obtuse you're reminded so vividly of the time this was originally made, but in so many ways it holds up today because it's so unlike other games of the time. The idea of having a through line of game systems, but then providing unique experiences around all of those, with choices that can effect story developments which leads to a full on Avengers moment. And one of the coolest alternative versions of a gameplay sequence I've ever seen, just in a lot of ways this is more ahead of its time than it ever is dated.

There's just no experience out there I know of quite like this, it's a really special game and I just loved my time with this, overall.

I feel like the platform holders and big devs are eschewing cross gen but it will take time to be uniform. Especially with the current install base and the push for more expensive games (which hurt non AAA devs). Although that could open up more inroads for devs to consider switch as a platform. Switch is “last gen” but it’s acceptable last gen because it sells like hotcakes.

@TheMelodiusRose
???

Of course I'm aware. But how does that change the cold, hard fact of what it is? Irrespective of what people buy it for, it doesn't change the fact it's a portable hybrid system designed for portable hybrid play, which includes both docked and handheld and tabletop. Ppl can buy it to play docked, play handheld, or heck even just throw darts at it or whatever other reason they want, but it doesn't change what it fundamentally is.

I also never said there wasn't something to like. I have no idea what you're talking about. I love 3rd party games on Switch. It's the only platform I want to play them on. BUT, that doesn't mean it isnt less powerful- it factually is. It also factually produces less impressive visuals and performance on average than power platforms. I dont care- those differences are negligible to me, especially when weighted against the benefit of getting THREE versions in one with every game purchase with permanent cross save on a system level among console, handheld and tabletop. But the differences exist nonetheless.

@Ryu_Niiyama
At this point some of them are, but it seems there's very little incentive at the moment to abandon PS4/X1. Unless it's a matter of a game not running easily, which will be the case in some instances, the architecture is virtually identical. They can make a PS4/X1 version and just upscale res and framerate, let it run natively via BC and slap a PS5/XS logo on the box and charge $70 for it. It's like a two-for-one for both PS4+PS5 and X1+XS.

This will benefit Switch though, I think. As long as games continue to sell on the system, and as long as cross gen continues, Switch will be considered for as many titles as possible. Naturally, over time less and less will be able to run, but more and more will be designed with Switch as a target platform in mind, too. Which means building a more scalable version and upconverting, as opposed to the other way around which almost always results in wack ports.

@TheMelodiusRose
What do you mean "I don't get"??? Based on what evidence do you base that claim?

Furthermore, your opinion of what it is "first" is just that- an opinion. Nowhere has God himself descended upon earth and declared Nintendo Switch a "home console first". It's nothing "first". It's a hybrid that's EQUAL PARTS home console, handheld and portable console. I don't have time or patience for these childish arguments insisting Switch is first and foremost this or first and foremost that

Nonsense. It's first and foremost a hybrid that can be whatever you want it to be. And EVEN IF IT WAS a console first, what difference would that even make anyways? OK, so it's a console first. And???

i will absolutly disagree that the graphics are less impressive since 99% of third party games have even better graphics that any first party game on the console and they are almost the same as the other versions so again

Then we're just not going to come to any consensus here because that's factually, objectively and provably false. Yes, some 3rd party games look better than 1st party, but not 99%, and most definitely not better than other versions. That's just not true. Yes, many games come close, which I already said myself in a previous post. In fact, the differences are surprisingly negligible in many cases. But most definitely not all. There are quite a few games that have notable downgrades, both visually and performance wise. In most cases its small enough I value the hybrid advantage more than the negligible visual improvements. But I'm not going to say they're near non-existent. Maybe for some games like Sniper Elite 4, Zombie Army 4, Demon Slayer, Borderlands Collection, etc. For sure. But plenty of other games have more severe downgrades, such as DOOM and Wolfenstein, Witcher 3, Ys IX and Ni No Kuni 2 which have major framerate issues, etc. It's a mixed bag. Thankfully the games with more severe compromises and issues are getting more sparse as the years go by, but they do still exist.

Idk what you're even arguing with me about. I'm happy with 3rd party games on Switch overall. Seems you are also. What's the beef?

Wait the argument is if the switch is a portable and not a home console or not? Isn’t a lot if not all of there marketing based on the fact that it’s portable? Don’t a lot of ads have them playing on benches and junk?

@TheMelodiusRose
Switch is whatever the user wants it to be

Which... is precisely what I said. It's factually a hybrid handheld system. That's not opinion. That's what it is. It can be used as a home console, handheld or portable console. This is a pointless argument

just a portable

I never once said it was "just a portable", so this is literally a strawman where you're arguing against something I never even claimed. Which makes it even more pointless than it already was