Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

@JaxonH I felt until the Partner Showcase which announced P5R, Joker was the most questionable but it's happening and a similar thing happened with Cloud (PS FF exclusives came to Switch in 2018/2019 after Cloud coming to Smash in 2015) and Snake (Snake Eater came to 3DS in 2011 after Snake coming to Smash in 2008). Right now the most questionable one definitely is Sora.

It would be nice if all these cloud versions like KH, Hitman 3, Control, etc. got native versions when the more powerful Switch releases (it's a reasonable guess that developers knew about more powerful hardware in 2020) but I doubt it especially regarding KH given all the rumours surrounding Sony buying Square Enix.

@JaxonH being in smash doesn't mean you get mainstream appeal (that is really just reserved for the big 4. Mario, Zelda, pokemon, and animal crossing), but I definetly believe there is a percentage of people who are buying, interested in, fans of series that wouldn't have been so so if they didn't know about the character because of Smash.

@JaxonH
Looking at your list, it's good to know that the Switch tries to satisfy the tastebuds of Japanophiles. Compared to another Japanese company like Sony, and obviously the American company Microsoft, the Switch definitely seems like the go-to place for JRPGs, with the Playstation being a close second (though maybe not in recent years, considering the PS5's lack of exclusives).

@Maxenmus
PS5 is desperately lacking in games. Practically all the games worth playing on the system are PS4 titles, or dual released as PS4 titles. Basically, if you have a PS4, you're covered for 99% of the games releasing on PS5. It's essentially just a PS4 Pro PRO at this point.

I'm sure that'll gradually change over the years but my goodness, it's already nearly 2 years old and there's only a very small handful of PS5 games worth buying that aren't available on PS4.

Not that I think it's not still worth owning. I got one, after all. But Idk what the rush is for some people. FOMO I guess.

I've never been a weeb or had any specific interest in hyper-Japanese style games. But I do find at least half the games I'm most interested in are JRPGs or developed by JP devs. Stuff like Triangle Strategy, Monster Hunter Rise Sunbreak, Xenoblade Chronicles 3, Bayonetta 3, Harvestella, Persona 5 Royal, Nier Automata... JP games just have more flavor than most western games (though there are exceptions- Portal Companion Collection is a perfect example). But ya. I'd even estimate 90% of the games I buy in total are Japanese, even despite my aversion to anime.

@JaxonH
Considering what Hollywood and American studios are churning out these days though, as a non-American Chinese, I have no problems buying mine Japanese to be honest, especially when anime made up a significant portion of my early 20s. I think "flavor" is a good word to describe it, but also "culture." Plus, most JRPGs just seem to love their eldritch abomination bosses, something I don't mind seeing no matter how stereotypical it gets. Either that or you fight God/Satan, so that's fresh, especially when American game studios would deliberately avoid such subjects to not upset their target buyers.

@Maxenmus
I think it comes down to more creativity.

Western game variation seems to be much lower than Japanese game variation. So many Western games follow the same realism focused art style- its so lame. Not that some games don't look good with the realistic art style but when everything uses it all the time it's just not impressive anymore.

Japanese games have more elements of fantasy, more out there creations. More daring gameplay design. And even despite all the tropes, I feel like the stories are typically more interesting (though some games like Witcher 3 do a really good job). Japanese games also have better art styles on average, and less predictable characters.

Western games just feel so... corporate.

@JaxonH
Well, I don't know about "less predictable characters" though. There's a common criticism out there targeting "typical anime character tropes" in JRPGs, and it's one of the main reasons people refrain from getting into JRPGs because they find such tropes silly, embarrassing, or even perverse in some manner, all the while ignoring the fact that certain American story tropes can be silly or dumb in their own way, particularly nowadays. But I guess they simply refer to such American tropes as "camp," while referring to anime tropes as "weeb." It stems from a certain level of xenophobia IMO, but maybe I'm reading too much into it.

I think "corporate" is a nice word to describe it. Western media has been more "safe" than ever, properly researched, packaged and marketed to the "right" audience, ensuring that they're not controversial and would pander to the widest range of demographics available rather than taking any forms of risk. But I wouldn't say Japanese media is some form of revolutionary either as anime has definitely taken a similar "safe" approach towards their animation style and music. I feel that most westerners would probably still find the anime artstyle unique because they either didn't grow up with anime or they just haven't been exposed to enough of it to feel the same saturation us obsessed animephiles have witnessed over the past decade. It's all stale on both sides IMO, which is why I dig up older titles than bother with the new (most of the time).

@Maxenmus
I definitely wouldn't say revolutionary, just better by comparison. Same for characters. For all the tropes in the world, I just identify with characters in JP games more. I like them more. They're more interesting. And maybe their designs have something to do with it- hard to say. But there's no denying I don't feel nearly as attached to characters in western games. I love Sniper Elite 4, but Karl is just another soldier to me. But a game like Bayonetta? She's wild, she's daring, she's interesting.

To be fair, Sniper Elite 4 is technically a military game, so having a soldier as the protagonist makes a lot of sense. In comparison, there are other action adventure games (which is what Bayonetta is classified as according to Google) that feature non-soldiers. Arthur Morgan from Red Dead Redemption 2 is part of a gang; Kratos was a soldier but became a literal God of War; The Last of Us didn't start out with the characters being soldiers, merely survivors; Aloy from Horizon Zero Dawn is huntress, not a soldier; A Plague Tale: Innocence doesn't have soldier protagonists, etc.

I get what you mean though about "daring and wild" characters that are far interesting, but especially with the likes of God of War, RDR2 and HZD, there's enough range in character traits to be found among non-Japanese games as well, not to mention the more non-conventional games like Stray (a literal cat) or even Slime Rancher 2. Destroy All Humans! is having an upcoming sequel as well that's unconventional, albeit merely paying homage to '50s UFO sci-fi.

I think that JRPGs tend to lean more into "wild and exciting" types all too often IMO, not to mention leaning into one or the other extreme end on the scale of optimistic cheerful types or the edgy, burdened with a dark origin warrior type. I think the latter in particular is the thing that has put people off of JRPGs. At some point, it comes off as pretentious.

@Maxenmus
It was just an example. Point being, it's not being a soldier that's the issue, it's the fact he's not that interesting. Neither is Arthur from Red Dead. Neither is Kratos. They're all terribly predictable and boring.

@JaxonH
Fair enough. I do agree that few western games offer protagonists that fascinate me... but then again, I've never really been that attached to JRPG protagonists like many people do either. Like, the only protagonist in a video game I've ever been attached to was Commander Shepard (Femshep), and she's from a western game, not a JRPG. Jennifer Hale offered enough personality in her voice acting that the character took on its own distinct style that was memorable.

And yet, I think that most protagonists are probably designed to be bland and generic for a reason. Persona games literally have silent protagonists so that any player with any kind of personality could feel like they're playing themselves in the game (same with Mass Effect). I'm thinking strictly RPGs, of course, so my observation might be skewed since RPGs tend to have such empty protagonists as a trend.

When I think of adventure games though, the first person that comes to mind is Clementine from Telltale's The Walking Dead, a protagonist designed for the games, not the TV series, and her character arc throughout the four games is pretty interesting and emotional. Then there's the Life is Strange games, the first of which I kinda liked for its characters. Doki Doki Literature Club is technically a western game and the characters are definitely something else.

I don't know. I guess it just depends on where you look. If you dig deep enough, I feel like interesting characters could be found on both sides of gaming as well. I know that I said that it's stale on both sides, and I still kinda stand by that point, but it's more towards the story than the characters tbh. Most storylines are rehashed nowadays.

Hmm, I've only played the God of War that came to Steam & Kratos seemed to be a pretty good character in that.... & I liked Aloy, too!
Good characters can do a lot to help a 'stale' story, I think. & Perhaps that's less of a problem if you haven't already been overdosed on similar themes?

Yeah, I think that's my issue. Once you've seen enough anime tropes, you've seen them all.

@BruceCM
There's nothing "wrong" with them. Plenty of ppl seem to like them.

But nothing about them especially intrigues me. Kratos is just a big grumpy brute. Alloy, eh. Just another character as far as I'm concerned. They're "life like" and all that, but maybe that's precisely the problem. I have a hard time caring about characters like that.

But all the Xenoblade characters? I'd die for any one of them. The Triangle Strategy characters? Love em. Fire Emblem Warriors Three Hopes characters? So good. Even Bayonetta and Nier Automata and Persona 5 Royal characters, all incredibly endearing.

Aside from Mass Effect (which I'll grant is a solid exception) I just can't think of any western focused games where the characters truly grabbed me to the point I'd want to order a statue of them or something. Yet my room is chock full of Japanese character statues.

Yeah, I hardly came across anime until after I was into gaming, @Maxenmus .... & I'd much rather play than just watch, so my very limited knowledge of anime is mostly from games, lol
I'm getting into some Western RPGs these days as well, so there's definitely plenty of good ones
Perhaps I'd feel like that about Kratos if I'd played more of the games, @JaxonH, I dunno. I certainly still love JRPGs & suchlike as well, you know

@BruceCM
Yeah, it's gonna be rough for me to get into JRPGs since I'm the total opposite of you. Not that I'm that put-off by the tropes, mind you, and I'll probably play my first Final Fantasy game someday, or the highly popular Chrono Trigger.

The thing is though, it's easier for me to find unique and unconventional anime translated than it is for me to find unconventional JRPGs localized. Any anime can be easily translated, but not every JRPG can be localized. Even with anime, a large portion of those I watched were niched psychological anime that aren't made up of Dragonball-ish storylines. With JRPGs, western studios are only gonna localize those that would appeal to their market (which is why many of the "translated visual novels" only made up 10% or less of the total amount of VNs), so not everything's gonna filter through except those with popular (and overused) tropes.

And I guess another big difference between anime and JRPGs is that one is largely made up of adventure stories (since that's what RPGs are perfect for) and the other can be many different genres, even Lovecraftian horror or psychological thrillers exploring philosophical themes. Whenever I ask for a JRPG recommendation, all of the titles given to me usually have some kind of grand adventure into the unknown, uncovering some mystery or defeating some kind of evil, etc. And I'm pretty much long past the phase where I'm still interested in adventure stories (probably outgrew that after I turned 17 actually).

It's why I'm thankful for western games like Detroit: Become Human or Bioshock where it's less about going on some grand ol' adventure and more about exploring the facets of the human condition (especially Bioshock, which is literally a masterpiece). Like, I can't think of any JRPG that could match to the depths of Bioshock if I could be honest. And to take another western RPG in comparison, there's Deus Ex: Human Revolution which is like a western Ghost in the Shell, questioning whether if our very human nature would be affected by the addition of inorganic computer parts that enhance our body.

I don't know, maybe I'll stumble onto a JRPG that offers such unique questions in the future, but I just haven't stumbled onto any yet.

Yeah, I like 'weird' western games, too, @Maxenmus .... Be sure to let me know if you play any FF or Chrono Trigger, too!

I get back home and poof a direct gets announced. I knew it!

I would disagree in the sense that I think JRPGs can put comparable themes as a major point in their game. I think the difference is that JRPGs generally try to have those themes happen in the context of the more standard world saving adventure story. And while Bioshock is incredible from a thematic perspective in places, it also ends with a villain who roughly acts like Grunty the Witch in Banjo Kazooie (a person to taunt you so you want to defeat them) and saving children because "saving children is good, doing experiments to them is gasp bad".

@kkslider5552000
I mean, that's a fair point, but your description of a "world saving adventure story" is easily a turn-off for me already. It doesn't help that I haven't played that many JRPGs to begin with that I wouldn't really know what distinct differences your idea of a "standard world saving adventure story" would have from my criticized cliched ones. There's nothing to hook me about the idea of an adventure story at all to be perfectly frank.

As for your Bioshock argument... well, I've never played Banjo Kazooie games, and I think you're oversimplifying the villain and what he represents, but let's agree to disagree since I don't really feel like getting dragged into an Atlus Shrugged debate (the Ayn Rand book the game is based on, of which many of its ideas were explored, which is essentially the main appeal of the game for me rather than how stereotypical the villain might be). I'll just say that the villain is secondary for me next to the more appealing thematic exploration and philosophical musing. I guess many people prefer characters over story, but for me, a unique story with interesting themes and concepts can be far more engrossing since it offers me new perspectives about life I would've never thought before.

And again, you're oversimplifying the saving children part of the game, or misunderstanding it even. It's kinda like criticizing Pokémon for encouraging dog-fighting when that isn't intended to be the appeal. I mean, it's fine if you find Bioshock boring or uninteresting or something (not sure what your specific point is here), but I found it to be a compelling experience. Sorry you don't feel the same.

I think that games like Bioshock are crucial even because they prevent the gaming industry from being saturated with typical adventure stories that feel the same thematically. It offers a kind of immersive journey that lets us challenge ideas in life, and was one of the contemporary pioneers of "games can be art too." Sure, the art might not be to everyone's taste, might not be perfect even from your (rather nitpicky) example, but I feel like it was ambitious for what it did in a video game experience.

tl;dr: I haven't played enough JRPGs because none of their premise has hooked me enough with their seemingly generic adventure stories.