Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

Did my part playing the Ys IX demo on Switch since it was available before the Steam version Obviously, with it coming to both, I'll get it Steam & it's available to pre-purchase there
Where else has the physical pre-order in America?

@JaxonH Absolutely delighted that SMT V is that high this far out from launch!! Very much looking forward to that game.

I tried the MH Stories 2 demo and I'm loving it so far!! My only real complaint is the unlocked framerate, which was very noticeable during cutscenes at least. That Switch Pro can't come soon enough! The game itself looks great and the gameplay is fun though!

@IceClimbers
For sure. I think we all share that gripe. But it really is fantastic. I recommend trying Neo: The World Ends With You and Ys IX demos. You might be surprised! Nothing to lose, anyways, except a bit of time being entertained for free 😀

And ya, I'm also very impressed that both Metroid and SMTV are holding it down. Usually games shoot up when announced then drop off until launch. These games just won't go away and I love it!

@Shadowthrone
Right on. I did try the demo on Switch and am glad to report it's a much better go around on Switch this time. The quality is much higher than Ys VIII was. It feels so good playing handheld.

@JaxonH Switch is the only platform with a filled known upcoming lineup so that helps those games. PS upcoming lineup is very unknown (Nintendo 2020 levels of unknown) while people hope for a PS event in the near future and Xbox's lineup is still rather barren even with E3 2021.

There's a TWEWY demo?

@Grumblevolcano Microsoft has an Xbox Game Studios title launching every month through the end of the year. The problem is that outside of Halo/Gears/Forza and Bethesda's big titles, none of their stuff gets seen as a big title in a lineup. Flight Simulator and Psychonauts 2 won't get viewed as titles in a main lineup for example, whereas even Advance Wars gets looked at as a main title in a lineup for Nintendo.

It's a perception issue that Microsoft has that they need to overcome.

@JaxonH It's probably because the NEO: TWEWY demo hasn't been announced... anywhere as far as I'm aware. I'm only aware of it from this forum. Was it a shadow drop or something?

@IceClimbers
Thats so true.

Nintendo's games, even their smaller ones, have diehard fans that get super hyped in response. Advance War fans are living la Vida loca right now. SMT fans in pure ecstasy. Metroid fans have been waiting for this moment their entire lives. Even Mario Party fans are celebrating with the return to classic N64 boards. A 2-5 million seller can be GotY for its fanbase, even Game of the Generation. It's not about budget, it's about quality fun.

But MS's titles just don't have that effect. Nobody's flipping their lid over a flight sim, or running laps around their office for Psychonauts. Not to insult those games. But, let's be real- they're just not that exciting.

I think part of the problem is, MS wasn't around in the early years pumping out classics like Nintendo was on the SNES. They don't have many storied IP that people are diehard fans of (aside from the aforementioned Halo, Forza and Gears). Which, I get it. Every company has their top 3. Nintendo has Mario, Zelda and Pokémon. But there's so many other IP Nintendo has that truly excites fans. Sooooo many. Even Mario Golf, a sports spinoff of Mario, has its diehard fans (I'm one of them- been waiting on it for years now). Not so many for MS, unfortunately.

That said, now that they have Bethesda, I can see that changing. People DO feel that way about Doom. People DO feel that way for Elder Scrolls. People DO feel that way for Wolfenstein. People DO feel that way for Fallout. So, things are looking pretty hot for Xbox right now, and I say that as someone who owns every platform except Xbox. They just need some time for their acquisitions to bear fruit.

They needed that Bethesda deal. They needed it so badly. That move single handedly made Xbox relevant again going into a generation where they very likely were about to lose even more marketshare than they did with Xbox One. PS was mopping the floor with them last gen at a 2:1 ratio, and that was before Switch blew up and started tearing into both of them. 9th gen was not looking good for Xbox. Then Bethesda happened. And suddenly the entire game has changed.

The question is, will they leverage it properly? Nothing short of permanent exclusives- lots of them... great ones- will change perceptions. They need to consistently deliver amazing permanent exclusives, and do it long enough that people feel they can trust it to continue long term.

@link3710
Ya they stealth dropped it amid the ruckus of Mario Golf, Tony Hawk and the MH Stories 2 demo, with nothing but a tweet. Got completely drowned out.

But, that's what word of mouth is for. People will catch on soon enough. Jut gotta spread the word and let em know what's up.

This is very obviously not true with Psychonauts. Psychonauts is absolutely one of those niche games that enough people did go crazy for when a sequel got announced. Even if I hadn't seen it myself, I would know that just because of how people love the original game. If you've not seen hype for it, its because it was announced AGES ago, and there's only so much you can talk about a 2nd game coming out in a platforming series, regardless of quality. I went nuts for TWEWY getting a long desired sequel, its not even taken that long from announcement to release, and I've still not talked about it much in a while.

That being said, I do agree with the rest of your post. Even being kind to Microsoft, they've not been a haven for interesting or varied video games since their weird Kinect experiment (and I've been harsh when Nintendo's avoided having their games be too interesting, so I can make that critique). They've just had one good idea with Game pass and lucked into everyone being like "well we can put this on Xbox one too, its close enough to PS4".

@JaxonH Was about to call out on Psychonauts, but kkslider beat me to it. Regardless, while I do agree, why isn't this an issue for Sony? Sony's release slate is mostly very new IPs. Sure Ratchet and Clank and Souls are two gens old now, but most of Microsoft's IPs like Fable, Zoo Tycoon, Flight Simulator etc are that old. Heck, they have access to Rare's full catalog of IP, with many beloved titles like Perfect Dark, Battletoads, Killer Instinct and Banjo-Kazooie, which also have large fanbases. Meanwhile, Last of Us, Horizon, Days Gone etc manage to get far more attention despite being relatively new IPs.

I'm not sure that access to Bethesda's IPs alone will be enough... especially when Bethesda is struggling to put out good games with those IPs lately.

@kkslider5552000
You think so? I heard a little rumbling about it, some people were reasonably happy but, nothing out of the ordinary for a sequel of a pretty good game. But ok. Maybe you’re right. I can’t say the game appeals to me so I’m probably not the best judge.

But MS has all the ingredients to blow the lid off. All the pieces are there. I’m not saying I, Jaxon Holden, as a gamer, personally want to see this happen. I rather like them allowing games on Switch. I rather like day and date Steam releases. But if I’m Phil Spencer, here’s what I would be doing:

1 Secure Ori as a permanent Xbox exclusive. Buy it out and the studio if they haven’t already. The existing releases on Switch is great to establish a wider fanbase, but going forward, future entries are 100% Xbox/PC exclusive.

2 Secure Cuphead developer as a permanent Xbox exclusive studio. Buy it out. The existing release on PS/Switch is great to establish a wider fanbase, but going forward, future entries are 100% Xbox/PC exclusive.

3 All games moving forward are Xbox/PC exclusive, permanently. And Steam releases come 1 year later than Xbox, not day and date. No more multi platform releases. No Switch. No PS. With one exception…

4 Release Halo: Master Chief Collection on Switch, and here’s why. It’s a bold move to put your main franchise on a competitor platform, of course, but Microsoft needs to garner new interest from up incoming gamers. Too long has Xbox failed to draw in new players, and this would be an opportunity to show the 100 million gamers in the Switch ecosystem exactly why Halo is as revered as it is, and why they should be investing into Xbox rather than PS. Shooters are still crazy popular, and Switch is the number 1 platform to harvest potential Xbox customers.

5 Ensure a new Doom is in development exclusively for Xbox, ready to reveal at e3 2023.

6 Ensure a new Wolfenstein is in development exclusively for Xbox, ready to reveal at e3 2023.

7 Ensure a new Fallout is in development exclusively for Xbox, ready to reveal at e3 2023.

8 Ensure the new Elder Scrolls in development exclusively for Xbox is ready to reveal at e3 2023.

9 Hellblade 2 is ready to show e3 2022, exclusively for Xbox.

10 New Ori is ready to show at e3 2022, exclusively for Xbox.

11 New Fable shown at e3 2022.

12 New exclusive Pillars shown at e3 2022.

13 Every studio under the Xbox umbrella with a game releasing in the next 3 years, I showcase their game at e3 2022 and 2023. Bombard the lineup to overwhelm people.

And if I were given approval to move forward, I would also do the following:

12 Acquire a competent Japanese Studio with large enough teams to consistently release 1 solid game per year.

13 Have JP studio revive Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon as first order of business.

14 Pay Bandai Namco for an Xbox exclusive Tales game.

15 Buy Sega/Atlus. Again, these are not my personal desires, but if I’m Phil Spencer, this is exactly what I’d do. If Xbox is to truly take this seriously and establish themselves as a global leader that can actually rival Sony, they need a Japanese studio with large established IP to complement Bethesda. Sony has basically permanently bought off Final Final Fantasy. If Xbox is to ever truly challenge them, they need games that will make people buy a console to play. If I’m Phil, I pay whatever I have to. I bombard e3 2023 with exclusive trailers for upcoming games in all the top Sega IP- from Yakuza to Valkyria Chronicles to Aliens, Monkey Ball, Persona, etc. I also find an extremely talented developer to work with Sonic Team, helping them as needed to come up with a new era of releases for Sonic that are top tier. No more mediocrity. I make Sonic the new Mario, and if certain devs need to be replaced or shuffled around to make that happen, then that’s what I do.

It is interesting to see how all three companies have gone about things. Nintendo's endearing popularity is heavily based on usually trying their best to keep their long-running series interesting while adding just enough new series to not seem like purely a nostalgia company, Sony relies more on whatever is currently cool while having enough interesting niche-ish stuff to seem like the cool yet quirky guys, and Microsoft wants to be the bad*** mature (both actually mature and not) American company but has had difficulties being consistent at almost anything else, and their usual IPs don't seem like they really attract new audiences by doing new, exciting things. Or at least not things that people notice before release. I've watched their conferences for a decade, I could not tell you what makes Halo 4 different from 5. Same with Gears. One of the Forza games had a lego thing. shrugs

I actually liked Xbox as a brand in the 2000s, I have fond memories of the original Xbox's games and early 360 exclusives but after that...eh...

I mean they might've found a way around that, but it is unfortunate that one of the ways is just taking away two of the most notable western RPG developers from everyone else. But that is at least interesting, and does make me think of good games I would play on Xbox in the past.

@kkslider5552000 I'd be more upset about the Bethesda buyout if Bethesda wasn't self-destructing hard right now. Quite frankly, I think it's much more likely now that we'll get decent Bethesda games than when they were independent. Save for the Doom reboot (I haven't played Eternal yet, not sure there), none of their games post Skyrim have interested me at all save New Vegas, and they didn't even develop that. And Skyrim tbh never quite captured my interest the way Morrowind did.

@link3710
Several factors, I think.

The first is that the media drives attention in a way that is more favorable to them. Nothing showed that more than Death Stranding and TLOU pt 2. Media holds a lot of sway, and they hype up their releases more than Xbox. I suspect that’s because they were so dominant in the PS2 era- most mainstream journalists are first and foremost Sony fans, and no matter how hard you try, that’s going to have its effect.

Secondly, I believe it’s the fact Sony has a much better track record of releasing great games. Now, I do think some of them get a little too much praise simply due to budget and graphics, but compared to Xbox, they’ve had much more consistency of quality.

I’m not sure if Bethesda alone will be enough- I think they need a JP studio with established and believed IP alongside them. But as it stands, I do think it’s possible it’s enough. Make no mistake- Bethesda has its issues, but every single Doom they drop is a masterpiece. Wolfenstein? That’s also one of the finest single player FPS ever created. Youngblood’s was meh, but the full releases are legit. Fallout, technical bugs aside, are at least as good as anything Sony puts out. And I think with more powerful hardware and fewer platforms to worry about, and support from Microsoft, they’ll do fine. Elder Scrolls? We already know that’s gonna be a banger. Starfield? Who can say. But even if it is just Elder Scrolls: Space Edition, that’s going to have a lot of appeal to a lot of people. And let’s not forget Bethesda makes a lot of other less popular games that are still of high quality, enough to rival many of Sony’s first party releases.

Couple that with the fact MS does still have a massive new Halo releasing, they’ve got a new Forza on the way, we’ll likely see a new Gears soon enough, and they’re actually branching out with spin-offs that are highly rated and very well received, such as Gears Tactics which frankly, I think is every bit as good as XCOM 2. That is to say, it’s one of the finest games ever made in its genre. If they can keep that up- hit us with that Hellblade 2, hit us with some new Ori, hit us with one or two new Obsidian RPGs, such as The Outer Worlds 2 (a perfect example of a great game well received that is now being built upon to establish itself as a premier Xbox exclusive) and maybe get a talented team to start bringing back their Rare IP one at a time… I think they could actually start seeing the same exact response as Sony.

And, as a PC gamer, now that Xbox is releasing day and date on PC, I can actually get excited for their announcements, as can everyone else who plays games on PC (which is a ton). Their reach will grow exponentially just through PC. One of their biggest problems has been not bringing in new players. PC should allow them to do just that. Which means more people excited when they hear announcements, which will ultimately lead to more media coverage, which can complete the cycle as it influences gamers.

@JaxonH I'll take your word on it. The only Wolfenstein I've played is Youngblood which... was okay? Not that impressive. Nothing like Doom definitely.

I'm less sure on Elder Scrolls being a banger tbh? Maybe I'm just burned, but after both Oblivion and Skyrim failing to live up to Morrowind IMO, I'm worried even VI can't meet that standard. Skyrim was better than Oblivion but... I'm not sure why it's as big as it is.

@link3710
I can’t answer that question. Just like I don’t understand the appeal of Psychonauts, you may not understand the appeal of Skyrim. All I know is my coworker, who hasn’t touched a Nintendo system in 20 years, bought a Switch day one because the advertisement showed Skyrim, and it’s his favorite game of all time, and the notion of having a hybrid version was enough to sell him on an entire console. Mind you, this person literally bought a console for a game he had already played several times over. Such is the appeal of Skyrim.

My brother isn’t that big a fan, but he’s still a pretty big Skyrim fan. I like the game myself. Only reason I quit playing is I’m a compulsive collector and hoarder and was constantly bogged down by my weight stat. I stole her house and dumped all my stuff in the basement but even that wasn’t enough to counter the fact I was constantly weighed down, and every time I’d clean out my inventory, an hour later I was stacked to the gills again.

If I ever get back into it I’ve got to stop picking up everything I see.

But ya, Elder Scrolls VI will be a massive hit. And while Wolfenstein never seemed to catch on like Doom, both New Order and Wolf 2 are among my favorite FPS of all time (under DOOM Eternal, though I’d put New Order above the original Doom). I highly recommend New Order. That game is… as close to perfection as I’ve ever seen for a story driven FPS. Steam Controller with gyro advised. Or at least a Dualshock with gyro.

It still amazes me that Microsoft has owned the Banjo-Kazooie IP for more than a decade and, other than a collection of old Rare games, has done absolutely nothing with it.

Anyway, I think interest in Microsoft will increase if and when a lot of these big promised (console) exclusives actually start releasing and proving their worth. The Bethesda stuff will be notable, obviously, but it also remains to be seen if they can properly evolve a number of the series they're reviving, like Fable, Perfect Dark, etc.

A big issue I have with Microsoft is that, unlike with Sony, they don't seem to do an amazing job of managing projects and teams they're working with. Love or loathe Sony, the output of both their first-party teams and many of the third parties they're working with is consistently excellent. Whereas, when I think of Microsoft, I think of the disappointment around Crackdown 3, the way Scalebound imploded, the fact that their newest Halo game was so underwhelming its release was delayed by a year (and it's still not particularly impressive looking), the fact that whatever the hell Everwild was supposed to be was apparently bad enough that the game has effectively been rebooted and had its release date pushed back indefinitely, etc.

It's telling that Sony already seems to be warming up its production line and has published a few well-regarded exclusives since the launch of the PS5 while Xbox has released... what? I appreciate the value proposition that GamePass represents, but it's going to take more than a roided-out subscription service to convince me to buy Microsoft's next-gen hardware.

Right now, I feel like the best direction for Xbox to go into is:

A. Go back to those 2000s roots and be the mature PC gamer...console. That's what Bethesda is for, that's why they bothered to market Age of Empires 4, Flight Simulator etc.
B. If Sony's questionable decisions with their Japanese studios are as bad as they seem they could be, take advantage of that. Make deals with B-tier Japanese studios, or any Japanese developer whose left Sony in recent years and fill that niche.
C. Push more indie games like Twelve Minutes and the new Plague Tale. Try to push them as the video game equivalent to like important dramatic, award winning stories that tv series and movies have done, but in video game form (Twelve Minutes even has notable Hollywood names, so this is not a huge stretch).
D. Just make a 2nd studio for Rare. Why do you have one of the most notable developers in gaming history, and in the past decade they've put out...one new game? And their next game might not be out any time soon? They had a couple of revivals from other studios, but...just have another Rare studio.

Beyond what they bought, I'm looking into what Microsoft has and what they could do that others are not, and this is what I came up with.

@IceClimbers Not quite:

• July - Flight Sim (console, PC release was in August 2020)
• August - Psychonauts 2
• September - Nothing
• October - Age of Empires 4 (PC only)
• November - Forza Horizon 5
• TBA 2021 - Halo Infinite (probably December)

There not being parity between PC and console releases (some games are PC only, some games come to console several months after the PC release) makes the Xbox console front for 1st party releases feel like a more rough version of the Wii U era.

@kkslider5552000 One thing that has passively benefitted Microsoft is the explosion in Japanese multiplatform game development, and especially the almost universal support for PC gaming at this point. It's pretty wild to think about how many properties that were previously Sony-exclusive are now either on PC or PC/Xbox.

I think the dramatic unpopularity of Xbox in Japan will keep developers from signing any major exclusivity deals, but it also means that one of Sony's biggest advantages historically has evaporated.