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Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

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JaxonH

@rallydefault
I absolutely did. Because your behavior matched their type of behavior pound for pound.

And calling out your behavior as such is important so that you recognize exactly what you were doing. Sometimes a comparison can be helpful in illustrating the absurdity of one’s own folly. Don’t get mad at the comparison. Get mad that you’re imitating the comparison to the extent it needed to be made in the first place.

I should not have continued responding to him after the personal insults started flying

Lol lol you’re killing me. Yes. These imaginary “insults” that started flying. Riiiight Where are they, exactly? Where’d they go? I sure as heck can’t seem to find them anywhere.

How dare you compare me to a liar

[proceeds to lie again immediately after]

You know what. I’m just gonna block you. There’s no salvaging a relationship with a girl who decks you in the face and then accuses you of assault. There’s no salvaging having conversations with somebody who insults you multiple times, and when realizes their argument isn’t holding up, switches tactics and imagines insults out of thin air that don’t exist, accuses the other of something that never happened, and repeat that lie ad nauseum as if you can just make it true the more you say it.

It seems like you just can’t handle someone using logical, coherent arguments to refute a wrong belief. And that frustrates you to no end because you can’t stand being wrong, and you can’t stand being wrong so much that you actually resort to using false accusations as propaganda, hoping someone who hasn’t followed the conversation will be ignorant enough to believe your wrongful slander and become more sympathetic to your argument, which has been completely dismantled by logical reasoning.

I’m done.

Edited on by JaxonH

All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans

God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John

rallydefault

@JaxonH
But the thing is that you've completely misinterpreted me from the start. You're assuming so much about my character yet you don't understand the way I speak/type and my intentions.

I don't care if you disagree with me. I never asked you to agree with me. I just stated that I disagree with your opinion and that you have a way of responding to people that is very frustrating and seeks to invalidate their own personal opinions.

I shouldn't even be responding to you anymore. You're never going to admit that you've compiled me to your purposes and liking, so I'll just leave you to continue fashioning me and my intentions however you want, however messed up and inaccurate they may be. If we can't get beyond the simplistic reality that our opinions diverge and there is nothing nefarious about it, I don't know what else to say to you.

Edited on by rallydefault

rallydefault

skywake

@Ralizah
TBH I think we're getting bogged down in the specifics rather than looking at the bigger point. This is the original point:

rallydefault wrote:

The reason I keep playing most of my games on Switch instead of of more logical alternatives like PS5 or Xbox or PC is because I can take them anywhere. Period. I don't care how much the graphics are pared down, the hybrid nature trumps performance downgrades a hundred times over for me.

And you know, nothing wrong with that statement as far as I can see. See here's the thing, if we're saying the hybrid nature of the Switch wins here? We're clearing not talking about the hybrid nature in the first point. We're talking about how the game runs i.e. performance. The Switch doesn't win that battle.

Ok, so people got hung up on the word logical. But really, if you had a TV with a Switch and anything else recent hooked upto it and you're playing the same game from your couch with a controller? Playing the game on Switch is irrational. Without portability the Switch is objectively the worst platform to play games on. But people like myself, while acknowledging that indisputable fact, return to the Switch because of it's exclusives and hybrid nature.

I'll be the first in line for the Switch Pro not because the likely performance bump will make it "competitive". It and all of it's successors will never compete with whatever PC I happen to have. I'll be first in line for the Switch Pro because I like the games Nintendo publishes and I prefer portable consoles. As far as I'm concerned any performance bump of the Switch Pro is largely irrelevant to its appeal

Edited on by skywake

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
An opinion is only respectable if it can be defended. Respect people, not opinions

JaxonH

@skywake
I think the issue is that everyone agrees that, with regard to performance, it’s objectively the worst console. I know I’ve said that myself at least three times in the last few pages.

It’s just not a point of contention. Everyone agrees with that.

The point of contention is then making the jump to say, because Switch is inferior graphically, it’s factually the worst platform overall. Which is categorically false.

And I would hope everyone agrees that, with regard to other aspects besides graphics, Switch is indisputably superior. Other consoles don’t offer gyro for 90% of games that need it, they don’t offer multiple controller options, they don’t offer tabletop mode, they don’t offer handheld play. So there are some aspects in which Switch is indisputably inferior, and there are other aspects in which Switch is indisputably superior. All of these aspects affect the total entertainment value derived, which is the only reasonable metric to use for “overall best”.

The problem is when one then cherry picks one of those aspects, and unilaterally declares it to be more important than every other aspect as a global truth for everyone. Switch can be indisputably inferior graphically, while also being indisputably superior with regard to versatility and convenience. Which wins out overall will depend on whether the user prefers graphics or the hybrid advantage. And one person can say Switch is the best console because the hybrid advantage far exceeds the benefits of more power. While another person can say Switch is the worst console because the hybrid advantage doesn’t come anywhere close to exceeding the benefits of more power.

The final analysis comes down to the user weighing pros and cons, and all consoles have both pros and cons. And just because they have a pro in one area, that doesn’t make them the overall best, it just makes them the best in that one area. Each user must place a weight of importance on the pros and cons and decide what’s overall best based on their preferences.

The logic of “Switch is objectively a worse console due to graphics, BUT because it’s portable I choose it anyways” can be flipped on its head by someone likewise saying, “Xbox/PS/PC a is objectively a worse console due to be confined to one place like a landline telephone, BUT because they have better graphics I choose them anyways”. That line of reasoning can be applied in both directions, which is why it doesn’t hold up.

Edited on by JaxonH

All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans

God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John

Magician

All that matters to me is for the tech inside the Switch to be "good enough", remain relevant. Allow third party publishers to continue considering it as a viable platform for their games. The Switch didn't reach 80m+ consoles sold because of their first party games alone. Nintendo needs their third party partners to be invested for the Switch to continue its success.

Switch Physical Collection - 1,260 games (as of June 15th, 2024)
Favorite Quote: "Childhood is not from birth to a certain age and at a certain age the child is grown, and puts away childish things. Childhood is the kingdom where nobody dies." -Edna St. Vincent Millay

rallydefault

skywake wrote:

Ok, so people got hung up on the word logical. But really, if you had a TV with a Switch and anything else recent hooked upto it and you're playing the same game from your couch with a controller? Playing the game on Switch is irrational. Without portability the Switch is objectively the worst platform to play games on. But people like myself, while acknowledging that indisputable fact, return to the Switch because of it's exclusives and hybrid nature.

Yes, that's pretty much it. Those are my thoughts in a nutshell.

Anyways, sorry, everyone. This digression was my fault and I apologize. I'll be honest and say that I'm a bit hurt by some of the things that were said, but that again stems back to me. This is a video game forum and things went way too far and I was a willing participant. I'll try to learn from this (hopefully lol).

rallydefault

Ralizah

@skywake

skywake wrote:

But really, if you had a TV with a Switch and anything else recent hooked upto it and you're playing the same game from your couch with a controller? Playing the game on Switch is irrational.

Nah. It's not irrational. It's irrational if your overriding concern is with performance, I guess, but it goes without saying that unless you're playing on PC, your overriding concern above all else isn't performance.

Your argument assumes that, as home console experiences, the consoles are identical otherwise (they're not; controller preferentialism and alternative control schemes come into play. For example, the lack of gyro aiming in DOOM on PS4 is why I'd say the Switch version is a better experience for me, despite objectively worse performance and image fidelity). It also assumes that people enjoy playing games across different consoles identically, which, from my experience, isn't true; some people just prefer to game within specific ecosystems, even if they own more powerful systems. People will play a game like The Witcher 3 on PS4 even if they own a PC capable of running it better, because they enjoy the Playstation experience more. Why wouldn't the same be true for the Nintendo experience?

Here's the thing: gaming is a luxury hobby, so the "rational" or "logical" decision to make is the one that will satisfy you the most. If playing as many games on Switch as possible is what makes you happy, then, no, playing the Switch version of a game is perfectly rational.

Playing games at the highest possible resolution and framerate isn't necessarily everyone's biggest consideration when it comes to choosing a platform to play a game on.

Edited on by Ralizah

Currently Playing: Yakuza Kiwami 2 (PC); Unicorn Overlord (NS)

Azooooz

The word "Pro" is sadly overused especially when it comes to the rumors like the improved Switch one. When we call a product "Pro", it usually aimed for professionals like movie makers, photographers, or any content creators that want to make money from the device. Here, in this case, it's silly to call the rumored console Switch "Pro" because it has a high-end hardware. Heck, even the PS4 Pro, when it was released, sounded silly because all it did was upscaling the resolution of the gameplay to 4K without improving many details of some games.

Even calling it New Nintendo Switch would be misleading. If you ask me, I'd rather they hold on to announcing new hardware for like 2-3 years later. If you like my opinion of the rumored Switch console, Switch Ultra would be a better name for it.

Making promise is easy. The hard part is keeping it.

Switch Friend Code: SW-3533-1743-6611 | 3DS Friend Code: 5069-3944-7877 | My Nintendo: azooooz | Nintendo Network ID: desert_king_Q8

Grumblevolcano

Well the Switch Pro controller (which has existed since the beginning of the Switch) pretty much guarantees that unless the new Switch was a home console only counterpart to the Switch (like how the Switch Lite is a handheld only counterpart) bundled with the Switch Pro controller, it wouldn't be called the Switch Pro.

Super Switch, Switch Advance, etc. would be misleading because consoles like SNES and GBA were next generation successors.

I think they'd pick something like New Switch.

Grumblevolcano

Switch Friend Code: SW-2595-6790-2897 | 3DS Friend Code: 3926-6300-7087 | Nintendo Network ID: GrumbleVolcano

JaxonH

The name isn’t important.

People just say “Switch Pro” because it easily communicates the idea of an upgraded model revision.

Obviously that’s not going to be the official name, just like Switch Mini was never going to be the official name of what eventually became the Switch Lite, but like Switch Mini, the name Switch Pro quickly and easily conveys the idea of an incrementally more powerful version of the Nintendo Switch.

So it’s not overused, it’s just language that best communicates an idea in two words.

edit
I’ve been thinking about possible Switch Pro solutions, and with this new information about 720p OLED, perhaps some fundamental assumptions I and others have made are wrong.

Up until now, I’ve operated on the assumption that the 4k output meant DLSS, and games not previously able to run meant handheld would have to have a significantly better chip. Which, ok, that may be the case. But what if it’s still a Mariko chip, but with another die shrink (giving significant gains like the v2 got), but this time all those gains go to performance instead of battery. And with a lower power draw using OLED, and perhaps better cooling, slightly bigger battery. Maybe that’s what we’re looking at. It would be just enough power to ensure 720p output across-the-board in handheld, And it would definitely ensure full compatibility as an iteration rather than a new chip entirely that could present problems.

But what about the 4K and DLSS? The more I think about it, and the possibilities proposed by another member here, the more I think I might’ve been dead wrong. What if they did use a supplementary chip in the dock? The problem with this is, I don’t know if USB-C has the capability for that. But one of my main criticisms of such an approach was that DLSS would therefore not be possible in handheld and the game couldn’t run. But... what if it could still run? What if it could still run, but just at 720p? If Switch had double the power, it could probably still pull that off. The assumption was that they would move up to a 1080p screen, but with 720p, perhaps games could still run without even needing DLSS in handheld mode?

I still don’t know how they would figure out supplemental computing with the DLSS for the dock. I don’t think such a thing exists, but as I think about it, we’re talking about two of the most forward thinking corporations on the planet... I’m sure they could figure it out if they intentionally put their minds to it.

Hmm... The more we figure out the more puzzled I become. For now, perhaps it’s best to be as open minded as possible.

Edited on by JaxonH

All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans

God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John

MsJubilee

Zuljaras wrote:

Just call it Switch Advance or Super Switch for the lolz

Or New Nintendo Switch.

The Harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. When the going gets tough, the tough gets going.

I'm currently playing Red Dead Redemption 1 & Fatal Frame Maiden of Black Water

Switch Friend Code: SW-5827-3728-4676 | 3DS Friend Code: 3738-0822-0742

rallydefault

@MsJubilee
Honestly I can see them just going with that lol

It's not terrible, really. It seemed to work pretty well for the 3DS. It signifies that it's new/refreshed but not the Switch 2.

@Ralizah
Agreed.
But the thing is that there are so many other things going against the Switch other than the graphics that, many times more than not, make it the illogical choice if comparing as docked. Onboard storage out of the box has always been rock bottom. It also lacks a robust online ecosystem, as many of us have griped from time to time: friend codes, voice chat differs from game to game, can't form parties/lobbies with friends outside of games, free games are from the 80s and 90s, etc. We all know it lacks quite a few heavy-hitting games that the other systems can give you. If you don't buy a Pro controller, the Joycon can be a love/hate thing for a lot of people (I personally love them and almost prefer them to the Pro controller).

There are always different things that different people look for. For me, the hybrid nature trumps everything else and is why I love my Switch. I believe, however, that for the average gamer they may find fewer things on the Switch that meet their expectations than on the competing consoles. But then, again, enters the brilliant hybrid capability that seems to have hooked quite the range of gamers.

Or it really could just be that the tried and true wisdom that exclusives sell systems applies and Breath of the Wild is the reason why Switch got its legs in the first place.

rallydefault

gcunit

My hunch is that Switch v3 will just replace v2, in the same subtle way that V2 just replaced v1. Perhaps it will be a bit less subtle, as the changes will be more apparent, but they'll still just call it 'Switch', but once the existing v2s have sold the only model available will be the v3.

Edited on by gcunit

You guys had me at blood and semen.

What better way to celebrate than firing something out of the pipe?

Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.

My Nintendo: gcunit | Nintendo Network ID: gcunit

sixrings

@gcunit I think I agree with this assessment. If it is a larger screen though that XL branding might be too tempting to give up. Still I think v2 is on its way out.

sixrings

Ralizah

@rallydefault And those points you make probably make the difference for some people. I don't play co-op games, though, upgraded my storage soon after launch, and prefer cloud saves not being held hostage behind a paywall that costs 3x as much like on PS4, and actually prefer SNES games to PS+ selections most of the time.

I'm definitely not saying someone might not have a legitimate reason to not play multiplats on Switch, docked or not. What I am saying is that some people are going to prefer playing multiplatform games on Switch regardless of whether they intend to take advantage of the portability it offers, and that's also a legitimate choice if they enjoy doing so more. There are many, many reasons someone might prefer playing on one platform over another. Maybe they like having games on cartridges. Maybe, like you, they enjoy playing games with the joycons (I used to like them, but the weird connectivity issues have started to really bother me, and the Pro Controller/Split Pad Pro are just a way more attractive option for me 90% of the time). On that note, one thing I really like is the wide range of controllers I can use with it, which doesn't seem to be possible on PS4 or Xbox. I played Bloodstained: Curse of the Moon with 8bitdo's M30, which is like a Sega Saturn controller, and it was extremely enjoyable.

When it comes to the appeal of the system overall compared to others, again, that's just going to be a subjective evaluation. I don't play 90% of AAA games that come out, so Switch being unable to run them isn't really a downside to me. Especially if it gets appealing bespoke alternatives to games I would want to play, like MH Rise instead of MH World, or possibly a new Resident Evil built with the specs of the Switch in mind. How much system exclusives appeal to someone will also make a difference.

I got a ton of the platforms released last gen (Wii U, Switch, 3DS, 3DS XL, New 3DS XL, Vita, PS4, and a gaming PC), and, frankly, the amount of choice at my fingertips has been overwhelming. If Nintendo's third-party support continues to be robust, I could see myself soloing this gen with just whatever the new Nintendo device is as my sole addition, and use my existing PC as a supplement for the Jp stuff like Tales of Arise, Resident Evil Village, etc.

Edited on by Ralizah

Currently Playing: Yakuza Kiwami 2 (PC); Unicorn Overlord (NS)

rallydefault

@Ralizah
Yea, for the first time since I was a kid I may be sticking just with Nintendo this gen. We'll see if the revision can keep a somewhat steady flow of the AAA third party stuff.

rallydefault

Ralizah

@rallydefault AAA third party seems doubtful. Especially modern-gen. Besides exclusives, of course.

Still, even being worse on that front than the competition, this is the best support Nintendo has gotten in generations. And, if the next device is a solid step up, I'd expect third parties to be on board even quicker, given Switch and its more core gamer playerbase have helped to mend a lot of bridges Nintendo has spent decades burning.

Although, if you already own a PS4 or halfway decent PC, it'll likely be a few years before major games stop targeting systems you own.

On the question of why Switch started selling well in the first place that I forgot to address in my last post: I think Zelda is definitely a big part of the early momentum, although even BotW wouldn't have been able to save the Wii U. The hybrid functionality is unquestionably super popular, and is arguably the greatest hardware gimmick in the history of consoles (Wii's motion controls were also big, but the crowd it attracted didn't stick around very long, whereas Switch owners are fairly engaged gamers). Nintendo's advertising has inarguably been better.

But, at the end of the day, I think certain social forces beyond anyone's control also contribute. The PS4 sold really well for years with just indies, the usual third party stuff, and underwhelming exclusives, and its degree of success largely mystified Sony. Wii U tanked after a decent launch and never caught on, despite an arguably attractive slate of exclusives. Even without Zelda, I think the Switch probably would have caught the mysterious market wings carrying certain platforms to astronomical levels of success.

Currently Playing: Yakuza Kiwami 2 (PC); Unicorn Overlord (NS)

rallydefault

@Ralizah
It does seem that console sales go up and down from generation to generation with each company, though nothing "failed" quite as badly as the Wii U in recent memory. I bought a Wii U at launch and enjoyed ZombiU (I think that was the title?) and NSMBU. I don't remember what else it launched with. Oh, Nintendoland was fun with friends. But I do remember the long stretch until Pikmin 3 came out.

PS4 was a mystery at launch. It had a Killzone game but not much else. I remember everyone being so perplexed as to why it was selling. I think there is some truth to these "unknown social forces" you speak of.

rallydefault

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