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Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

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jump

Finally those scientist have stopped work on a cure for coivd, cold fusion and nuclear transmutation so they could figure out the formula for fun! ;p

Nicolai wrote:

Alright, I gotta stop getting into arguments with jump. Someone remind me next time.

Switch Friend Code: SW-8051-9575-2812 | 3DS Friend Code: 1762-3772-0251

rallydefault

@link3710 @JaxonH
Ok, so now we live in a world where people buy game consoles that don't have games they like.

You guys are a real piece of work sometimes lol

People buy game consoles that have the games they want to play. It's a logical decision. PS/Xbox have way more games than the Switch. Chances are, for most people, PS/Xbox would make more logical sense for a primary gaming console purchase. Buying something that plays the games you like is not just a "candidate" or preference or whatever; it's the absolute baseline factor in buying something as a consumer.

Edited on by rallydefault

rallydefault

link3710

@rallydefault Why are you putting words into my mouth? I literally only spoke about the matter of friends in the same ecosystem.

Edited on by link3710

link3710

NintendoByNature

And I'm just over here anxiously awaiting the arrival of blaster master zero 3 😁

NintendoByNature

JaxonH

@rallydefault

People buy game consoles that have the games they want to play. It's a logical decision.

Of course they do. But it's not the only factor. One system may have 11 games they want to play, while another system has 8, BUT, those 8 can be played portably. Or with gyro. So even then, "having the most games" isn't automatically the best choice. It's not automatically the "logical choice". It's one factor assigned a weight and compared with other factors. Obviously a system needs at least ONE game a person wants, but that's kind of a given.

PS/Xbox have way more games than the Switch. Chances are, for most people, PS/Xbox would make more logical sense for a primary gaming console purchase.

Switch sales say otherwise. And that's precisely because just having "more games" doesn't really mean much. As long as a system has enough games to satisfy, having "more" isn't really bringing much more to the table. Furthermore, not all games are equal. System B could have 2,000 games, but system A has 3 games better than any of those 2,000, and playing those 3 games is worth more to someone than 2,000 games they'd enjoy half as much. That's not an argument that holds water.

What actually matters is how many games you want to play, how badly you want to play each one of them, the benefits of playing them on a particular system, etc. It's so much deeper than just counting a numerical sum total.

Buying something that plays the games you like is not just a "candidate" or preference or whatever; it's the absolute baseline factor in buying something as a consumer.

It's a baseline factor but not the only factor. As explained above.

There is no default "better system" or "one size fits all logical choice". There is only preference. PS5/X1 could have twice as many games with better graphics, yet those games can only be enjoyed with 33% of the versatility, and without gyro. On top of which, different games appeal to people differently. Many feel the best games in the industry are Nintendo exclusives. And for those people, they're going to weigh the Switch as more valuable.

I never thought I'd see the day saying "the best console depends on what you value as an individual" would be so vehemently disputed by someone.

Edited on by JaxonH

All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans

God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John

Mr-Fuggles777

JaxonH wrote:

Diminishing returns of "additional fun added to the experience" as power increases, to visually demonstrate why a more powerful Switch makes a lot more sense than a PS4 Pro or Xbox One X ever did.

Have you taken I to account the amount of people that only use the switch as a secondary console so extra power isn't an issue - I would imagine most gamers have multiple systems nowadays so an increased (although still under) powered switch isn't that big an issue.
With games launching on the system like MHrise and running/looking amazing why do we need a portable PS4

With no Power, comes no Responsibility!

My Nintendo: Badger | Nintendo Network ID: SW-7629-6884-5091

JaxonH

@Mr-Fuggles777
Of course there's some people like that. But just because there's some people like that doesn't mean they're to ignore the tens of millions of people who aren't like that.

We don't "need" anything other than food, clothing and shelter. Video games has never been about "need".

We don't "need" a Nintendo Switch at all. Or a PS, or Xbox. Or PC. We don't even need video games in general. Its never been about "needing", it's about wanting. Tens of millions of people want a more powerful Switch. Guarantee almost all developers want a more powerful Switch too.

What you personally want or need is irrelevant. If you want to keep playing the current Switch, then keep playing the current Switch. But this train is moving forward, and you can't stop it. Nintendo WILL release a more powerful Switch, whether you think they "need" it or not. And people will gobble it up, because that's exactly what tons of people want.

All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans

God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John

Mr-Fuggles777

@JaxonH tens of million of people also wanted an upgrade and more powerful version of the Wii - Where did they go when the wii-U launched, because they obviously weren't buying consoles.

Nintendo has managed to catch the casual market (people who don't normally buy consoles) with the Switch. Why would they look to isolate that crowd with an updated console at the peak of its success? Especially if there are games launching that would be unplayable on the new system.

The PS4 Pro and X1X were power house consoles designed to grab the hard-core gamer sales with enhanced performance. A slight visual upgrade and an extra AA battery in a switch Pro hardly attracts the same market share - especially when it can't even compete with the XsS and it would have a significantly higher price point as the standard switch is already more expensive.

With no Power, comes no Responsibility!

My Nintendo: Badger | Nintendo Network ID: SW-7629-6884-5091

JaxonH

@Mr-Fuggles777
No... that's incorrect.

Wii U was not a Wii HD. Wii captured casuals and they left before Wii U. They were too late, a mistake they WONT be making again with Switch by waiting too long. Wii U had a gamepad controller and an OS so slow you could watch paint dry doing anything on the system. There are separate reasons that system failed. Switch is completely opposite.

Switch is NOT like the Wii. The Wii captured the casual audience. Switch has captured the core gaming audience. Proof of this is in the incredible sales of core 3rd party games, many not only outselling Xbox versions, but even the PS versions.

And they're not "isolating" anyone. Not one single person is going to miss a game they otherwise would have gotten. Not one single person will have any difference of experience if a new Switch never came. #1) Nintendo isn't releasing exclusive games. #2 Any 3rd party exclusives are games that couldn't have ran anyways, so those people wouldn't have been able to play regardless.

The PS4 Pro and X1X were power house consoles designed to grab the hard-core gamer sales with enhanced performance. A slight visual upgrade and an extra AA battery in a switch Pro hardly attracts the same market share

Wrong again. That's EXACTLY what this is. That's exactly what this is. A powerhouse HYBRID to grab hard-core gamer sales. It's a hybrid. Standards of what constitutes powerful is different than home consoles. A 4k capable handheld with OLED is 100% a powerhouse for the core audience. And if you doubt that, sit back and observe what happens post launch.

specially when it can't even compete with the XsS and it would have a significantly higher price point as the standard switch is already more expensive

Regular Switch can't compete graphically with XSS or even Xbox One S, and had a higher price. People still bought it. People don't care if Xbox One S is "more powerful" because it's not hybrid. It's as simple as that. People want a hybrid. And they want the most powerful hybrid they can get their hands on. Just like other people want a home console, and want the most powerful home console they can get their hands on.

I'm not going to continue debating the merits of a Switch Pro. You feel free to believe whatever you want. But a lot of people are dying to get their hands on a more powerful Switch, and this new model is gonna Smash. It will only serve to eat away even more marketshare from PS/Xbox. The small advantages those systems have will get even smaller as a 4K capable OLED switch closes the gap even more.

Edited on by JaxonH

All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans

God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John

BruceCM

There's no question that all the Switch games will be playable on any upgrade version, though.... Only a possibility that a few might come for that which wouldn't be playable on the existing ones
Which is part of why I'm saying they'd carry on selling those as well.

SW-4357-9287-0699
Steam: Bruce_CM

rallydefault

@JaxonH
And I never thought I'd see the day when someone can't accept that there are objective logical factors that determine how good a console is. Same thing goes with any product, really.

You can walk around mumbling to yourself about how awesome the Wii U is, for instance, but objectively it made very little logical sense as a console. It didn't have the games, it didn't have a comfortable controller, it didn't have the power, and it didn't have a robust ecosystem where most people had lots of friends playing on it.

The Switch is doing so well because it has that hybrid element that no other console has had before. It's what gave someone like me another objective reason to go with the Switch version of a game instead of the PS version despite the graphics not being as good and not as many of my friends playing on it.

There comes a point when you're just being a contrarian. And for those of us who were around these boards when the Wii U was the current console, there was a lot of "but this console is so great why aren't people buying it?" Say whatever you want, yell at the world however much you want, but there are eventually realities that you need to face. The Switch, if it wasn't hybrid, would never have made it as a console. It would have been a flop. It would have had nothing other than its first-party games that PS and Xbox didn't already have. It would have been an illogical choice for the vast majority of gamers.

Edited on by rallydefault

rallydefault

kkslider5552000

It would be very odd for Switch Pro to have exclusives, when increasingly even brand new consoles apparently don't have exclusives. :V

Edited on by kkslider5552000

Non-binary, demiguy, making LPs, still alive

Megaman Legends 2 Let's Play!:
LeT's PlAy MEGAMAN LEGENDS 2 < Link to LP

JaxonH

@rallydefault
Well, believe it.

There are objective, logical factors that determine how good a console is... in a specific regard, NOT as an objective truth for all people.

I didn't like the Wii U nearly as much as Switch. I think most people would agree with that. HOWEVER, if someone said hey, I love the gamepad to death, and Xenoblade X is my favorite game of all time, and I like this system more than anything else... wtf am I to tell them what's best for them? And what's best for them is what matters.

You can tout "more total games" and "better graphics" all day long. And yes, graphically speaking it can be the better console, in that specific regard. But that does not automatically make it the OVERALL better console, which depends on what the user prefers and the aspects they value. The GRAPHICALLY SUPERIOR console may just be the INFERIOR console in regards to other aspects that matter more to all these other people. Who are you to declare one aspect objectively more important than another? You said it yourself, games matter most. And yet games are completely subjective. One good game on Wii U could outweigh the entire library of another system to a select few. The gamepad could outweigh better graphics for a select few. Who are you to say one group's prefered aspects matter more than another's?

There comes a point when you're just being a contrarian

Point well made. Sounds exactly like what you're doing.

The Switch is doing so well because it has that hybrid element that no other console has had before. It's what gave someone like me another objective reason to go with the Switch version of a game instead of the PS version despite the graphics not being as good and not as many of my friends playing on it.

Again, agree 100%. I'm not sure what you're arguing. We agree on that. And that's my point. You valued that aspect more so it made it the BETTER CONSOLE FOR YOU. Others may value graphics or friends which makes other consoles BETTER FOR THEM. But graphical superiority does NOT = overall superiority for everyone. Likewise, hybrid superiority does NOT equal overall superiority for everyone. It depends on what the person values.

"but this console is so great why aren't people buying it?

Because it didn't offer something enough people valued enough over the price. That didn't make it objectively worse, it just made it unpopular with subjective preferences. There were objectively inferior aspects about the console- many, in fact, but it still comes down to opinions. And there WERE people who said they loved Wii U more than any other system. Who said it was a better console to them than any other. It comes down to the individual. Doesn't mean it'll always be the most popular opinion or preference, but it's still an opinion and a preference.

Btw, I'm not yelling at the world, or anyone for that matter. No idea what you're talking about.

It would have been a flop. It would have had nothing other than its first-party games that PS and Xbox didn't already have. It would have been an illogical choice for the vast majority of gamers

Probably, but that wouldn't have been due to being objectively inferior, it would have been because the majority of preferences didn't align with what it offered. Opinions and preferences don't suddenly become "facts" the minute there's a 51% majority concensus. It just makes it a popular preference. That's all. It may be based on many inferior aspects of a system, but you can NEVER claim graphics are objectively better than portability or vise versa, you can NEVER claim one library of games is objectively better than another. All you can do is have a preference. And maybe 99% of people on earth agree with that preference. But... it's still a preference.

And there are many systems where the vast majority agree were not as good as another. But majority preference isn't the same thing as objective fact. Otherwise every single Metacritic score would be gospel, and anyone who tried claiming a 77/100 game is better than some other 78/100 game would be shot down by the "objective truth" of majority opinion. It's nonsensical. You can say "I don't like system A as much as system B because it's objectively inferior in regards to X, Y and Z, and being superior in regards to P and Q doesn't make up for the inferior aspects", and that's completely fine. And you may find many people agree with that analysis. But that doesn't make it some transcendental truth. P and Q may be so amazing for some people that not only do they outweigh X, Y and Z, they make it a more desirable console than anything else on the market. Who are you to say X, Y and Z objectively matter more than P and Q? What, just because more people agree with the opinion that makes it fact? That's not rational logic.

Edited on by JaxonH

All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans

God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John

kkslider5552000

I agree with reallydefault's general point but I think he underestimates other factors that lead to Switch's success.

I dunno what he's trying to do with the word objectively though. Like I don't always use that word super literally either, so I get it, but if y'all try to connect popularity with objective fact, I might have to make things horribly awkward in this thread.

Non-binary, demiguy, making LPs, still alive

Megaman Legends 2 Let's Play!:
LeT's PlAy MEGAMAN LEGENDS 2 < Link to LP

JaxonH

Interesting.

Nvidia has a job posting referencing SoC’s with AI capabilities (DLSS) for gaming consoles. And since Switch is the only gaming console who uses Nvidia...

Untitled

All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans

God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John

skywake

That argument across the last few pages is... pretty dumb. Speaking for myself, if a multi-platform game comes out on both Switch and PC? Getting it on PC is more rational given I can play it at higher resolutions and refresh rates across multiple machines. But I will pick up less demanding games and/or games that lend themselves to portable play on Switch given it is also a portable console. It's also a simpler local-multiplayer experience than PC.

I don't think there's much debate to be had over that, these are pretty widely accepted views. And I don't think a Switch Pro changes that equation much at all.

Mr-Fuggles777 wrote:

I would imagine most gamers have multiple systems nowadays so an increased (although still under) powered switch isn't that big an issue. With games launching on the system like MHrise and running/looking amazing why do we need a portable PS4

This is true however by the time this Switch Pro appears we'll be at the very least approaching five years since the Switch launched. I don't think a Switch Pro needs more horsepower to be a viable refresh. It gets to the point where you can get a large performance bump for a trivial increase in price. So why wouldn't they?

Remember, they rather silently released a revision of the Switch with a ~25% performance bump and the price didn't go up. If they do that again they're up at ~60% above the original Switch. Combine that with more/faster RAM and more/faster internal storage? They could fairly comfortably bump the resolution of existing games up a tier.

I don't know the bulk pricing but based on retail pricing for RAM, SSDs, the rumoured cost of these OLED panels AND lets say an additional $15 for a SoC that's another 25% up on the 2019 refresh. At a guess this is what the cost of upgrading RAM/storage/LCD/SoC would be:

4GB -> 8GB RAM: $20
LCD -> OLED: $5 (they're apparently getting these for <$20!)
32GB -> 240GB NAND: $20
SoC + 25%: $15

$60US additional. Remembering that the price of other components are also dropping. In theory what we'd probably see is the above SKU either coming in at $350US with the other SKUs staying largely where they are. Or we'd see the Pro come in at $300US and the non-Pro SKU getting a price cut before slowly being phased out. Would people who already have a Switch rush out to upgrade? Probably not. But I don't think Nintendo really needs that, if they did they would've made a bigger deal about the 2019 revision.

With that said, I for one would upgrade just for an OLED panel. I have a launch SKU so there will be a performance bump for me anyways. Also would make a reasonable excuse to get a second Switch

Edited on by skywake

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

Buizel

Yeah I agree the argument across the past few pages seems a little silly. I don't believe you can objectively or "logically" rank such different choices as a hybrid / home console outside of individual preference. To use an outdated example, it's like saying a record player is objectively better than a walkman because of sound quality...but despite both being methods of playing music, their applications are different. If I mostly listen to music while commuting (which, outside of lockdown, I do), a record player is useless to me.

Edited on by Buizel

At least 2'8".

rallydefault

skywake wrote:

That argument across the last few pages is... pretty dumb. Speaking for myself, if a multi-platform game comes out on both Switch and PC? Getting it on PC is more rational given I can play it at higher resolutions and refresh rates across multiple machines. But I will pick up less demanding games and/or games that lend themselves to portable play on Switch given it is also a portable console. It's also a simpler local-multiplayer experience than PC.

I don't think there's much debate to be had over that, these are pretty widely accepted views. And I don't think a Switch Pro changes that equation much at all.

That's fine if you think it's dumb, but you just typed my exact point lol

@JaxonH
Sigh. It's always the same with you, man. Just read what I quoted from Skywake. If you don't wanna listen to me, you'll probably listen to him. There are just widely accepted truths when it comes to rationally selecting a gaming console. If you're gonna keep fighting that, then have at it. You're exhausting to debate.

@kkslider5552000
Objectively. Factually. Like, the Switch is objectively a less powerful gaming machine than a PS5. That's how I'm using the word. My toaster can objectively reach a higher temperature than your toaster. There are certain objective things that matter to consumers, and no amount of anecdotes and "Well, I FEEL in my heart that the Switch is a powerful machine" can change those things.

Edited on by rallydefault

rallydefault

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