Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

Can't say I expected Switch Pro rumours to drown out the MH Rise hype, at the most I expected Zelda 35th anniversary celebrations (which Nintendo straight up ignored Zelda 35th anniversary, not even a tweet) and the limited time delistings (3D All Stars, SMB35, FE1 localization) to distract.

@Grumblevolcano im waiting for April 1st to come so nintendo can finally start zeldas 35th( if that's even a thing of course).

@Grumblevolcano Many hardcore Nintendo fans appear to love endlessly discussing console hardware. Probably the same reason discussions in the 3DS forum usually turned into discussions about the hardware.

@NintendoByNature LOL I think starting Zelda's 35th anniversary on April 1st would probably be sending the wrong message.

@rallydefault @JaxonH Y'all realize you've completely lost the plot at this point, right? Once an argument has devolved into "you're personally insulting me" and "you remind me of my abusive ex-girlfriend," I think that's probably the point where you should know it's time to cut your losses, agree to disagree, and move on with your lives.

Dude's been on these forums longer than you have so....

I don't think you read what I said TBH and I think you are leaping to conclusions based on stereotypes. I have a reasonably good PC and I have a Switch, there is no debate to be had about which is technically the superior platform. When a game exists on both and I don't intend to play on the go? It comes down to resolution and framerate, which the Switch does not win.

Now does this mean I "perceive" the game library on PC as "superior"? Not really. I'm typing on a Nintendo fan forum I've been a member of for over a decade, what do you think I think? You think I'm not a fan of the Switch's versatility? Well in the post you half-quoted I'm literally saying I'm first in line for the Switch Pro. Like I said, I don't think you're actually listening.

That doesn't change the fact that, objectively, if I don't care about portability for a game the Switch is still the least capable platform. If a game exists on more than one platform and it's a choice between the Switch and that other platform? The rational choice is to not buy it on Switch. A Switch Pro would not change that equation. Simple as that.

@skywake
I don’t really disagree with any of that. I did read what you said and I wasn’t jumping to conclusions.

I agree. But the key phrase there is if you don’t care about XYZ. Which is a preference. Other platforms are objectively the better choice if your preferences are such that you don’t value the aspects of Switch which are objectively superior. Which is all I’m saying. It comes down to user preference. IF a person values graphics more than portability, then yes, every single time Switch will be the inferior choice. But IF a person values portability more than graphics, then every single time Switch will be the superior choice. It comes down to user preference. One platform is superior in graphics and performance, and one platform is superior in versatility, playstyles and convenience. Which superior aspects you value most will determine what you choose. And will determine which is “best”... for you

Of course, all of this ignores game libraries, and hinges on the assumption all platforms have the exact same games in their library... which isn’t the case. And different libraries mean one console could be overall better than another, despite being inferior in every other aspect. It all comes down to user preference.

@skywake I'd say the "rational choice" is buying games on the platform you enjoy playing on the most. If performance isn't a terribly important factor for you past a certain point, then, even if you're just playing at home, it can be perfectly rational to play on a weaker system. Home console owners without gaming PCs have done just that for generations. I know people with nice gaming rigs who still prefer to play on consoles because that's where they're more comfortable most of the time. So it shouldn't surprise you that some people just want to play games at home on a Switch, even if other consoles are available.

It all comes down to preferences and how facts as they are align with those preferences. That's all there is to it.

@JaxonH
You're really taking this too far. You compared me to an abusive significant other. You don't know anything about me, you just don't agree with my opinion and at some point concluded that I'm demanding fealty (lol) from you/others. That's cuckoo. Seriously, man... you compared me to an abusive significant other. Over an opinion on why people buy game consoles. That is really. Really. Messed up.

@Ralizah
Yes, you are right. It's time to stop. I take the blame on this one. I should have stopped way sooner, and I should not have continued responding to him after the personal insults started flying.

@Ralizah hahaah I actually thought as I typed it. But more than anything I meant being done with marios 35 on the 31st.

So long as there's an ongoing philosophical discussion on why people game.

May as well throw up an old GDC favorite.

@rallydefault
I absolutely did. Because your behavior matched their type of behavior pound for pound.

And calling out your behavior as such is important so that you recognize exactly what you were doing. Sometimes a comparison can be helpful in illustrating the absurdity of one’s own folly. Don’t get mad at the comparison. Get mad that you’re imitating the comparison to the extent it needed to be made in the first place.

I should not have continued responding to him after the personal insults started flying

Lol lol you’re killing me. Yes. These imaginary “insults” that started flying. Riiiight Where are they, exactly? Where’d they go? I sure as heck can’t seem to find them anywhere.

How dare you compare me to a liar

[proceeds to lie again immediately after]

You know what. I’m just gonna block you. There’s no salvaging a relationship with a girl who decks you in the face and then accuses you of assault. There’s no salvaging having conversations with somebody who insults you multiple times, and when realizes their argument isn’t holding up, switches tactics and imagines insults out of thin air that don’t exist, accuses the other of something that never happened, and repeat that lie ad nauseum as if you can just make it true the more you say it.

It seems like you just can’t handle someone using logical, coherent arguments to refute a wrong belief. And that frustrates you to no end because you can’t stand being wrong, and you can’t stand being wrong so much that you actually resort to using false accusations as propaganda, hoping someone who hasn’t followed the conversation will be ignorant enough to believe your wrongful slander and become more sympathetic to your argument, which has been completely dismantled by logical reasoning.

I’m done.

@JaxonH
But the thing is that you've completely misinterpreted me from the start. You're assuming so much about my character yet you don't understand the way I speak/type and my intentions.

I don't care if you disagree with me. I never asked you to agree with me. I just stated that I disagree with your opinion and that you have a way of responding to people that is very frustrating and seeks to invalidate their own personal opinions.

I shouldn't even be responding to you anymore. You're never going to admit that you've compiled me to your purposes and liking, so I'll just leave you to continue fashioning me and my intentions however you want, however messed up and inaccurate they may be. If we can't get beyond the simplistic reality that our opinions diverge and there is nothing nefarious about it, I don't know what else to say to you.

@Ralizah
TBH I think we're getting bogged down in the specifics rather than looking at the bigger point. This is the original point:

And you know, nothing wrong with that statement as far as I can see. See here's the thing, if we're saying the hybrid nature of the Switch wins here? We're clearing not talking about the hybrid nature in the first point. We're talking about how the game runs i.e. performance. The Switch doesn't win that battle.

Ok, so people got hung up on the word logical. But really, if you had a TV with a Switch and anything else recent hooked upto it and you're playing the same game from your couch with a controller? Playing the game on Switch is irrational. Without portability the Switch is objectively the worst platform to play games on. But people like myself, while acknowledging that indisputable fact, return to the Switch because of it's exclusives and hybrid nature.

I'll be the first in line for the Switch Pro not because the likely performance bump will make it "competitive". It and all of it's successors will never compete with whatever PC I happen to have. I'll be first in line for the Switch Pro because I like the games Nintendo publishes and I prefer portable consoles. As far as I'm concerned any performance bump of the Switch Pro is largely irrelevant to its appeal

Wow.... what happened in here?

@skywake
I think the issue is that everyone agrees that, with regard to performance, it’s objectively the worst console. I know I’ve said that myself at least three times in the last few pages.

It’s just not a point of contention. Everyone agrees with that.

The point of contention is then making the jump to say, because Switch is inferior graphically, it’s factually the worst platform overall. Which is categorically false.

And I would hope everyone agrees that, with regard to other aspects besides graphics, Switch is indisputably superior. Other consoles don’t offer gyro for 90% of games that need it, they don’t offer multiple controller options, they don’t offer tabletop mode, they don’t offer handheld play. So there are some aspects in which Switch is indisputably inferior, and there are other aspects in which Switch is indisputably superior. All of these aspects affect the total entertainment value derived, which is the only reasonable metric to use for “overall best”.

The problem is when one then cherry picks one of those aspects, and unilaterally declares it to be more important than every other aspect as a global truth for everyone. Switch can be indisputably inferior graphically, while also being indisputably superior with regard to versatility and convenience. Which wins out overall will depend on whether the user prefers graphics or the hybrid advantage. And one person can say Switch is the best console because the hybrid advantage far exceeds the benefits of more power. While another person can say Switch is the worst console because the hybrid advantage doesn’t come anywhere close to exceeding the benefits of more power.

The final analysis comes down to the user weighing pros and cons, and all consoles have both pros and cons. And just because they have a pro in one area, that doesn’t make them the overall best, it just makes them the best in that one area. Each user must place a weight of importance on the pros and cons and decide what’s overall best based on their preferences.

The logic of “Switch is objectively a worse console due to graphics, BUT because it’s portable I choose it anyways” can be flipped on its head by someone likewise saying, “Xbox/PS/PC a is objectively a worse console due to be confined to one place like a landline telephone, BUT because they have better graphics I choose them anyways”. That line of reasoning can be applied in both directions, which is why it doesn’t hold up.

All that matters to me is for the tech inside the Switch to be "good enough", remain relevant. Allow third party publishers to continue considering it as a viable platform for their games. The Switch didn't reach 80m+ consoles sold because of their first party games alone. Nintendo needs their third party partners to be invested for the Switch to continue its success.

Yes, that's pretty much it. Those are my thoughts in a nutshell.

Anyways, sorry, everyone. This digression was my fault and I apologize. I'll be honest and say that I'm a bit hurt by some of the things that were said, but that again stems back to me. This is a video game forum and things went way too far and I was a willing participant. I'll try to learn from this (hopefully lol).

@skywake

Nah. It's not irrational. It's irrational if your overriding concern is with performance, I guess, but it goes without saying that unless you're playing on PC, your overriding concern above all else isn't performance.

Your argument assumes that, as home console experiences, the consoles are identical otherwise (they're not; controller preferentialism and alternative control schemes come into play. For example, the lack of gyro aiming in DOOM on PS4 is why I'd say the Switch version is a better experience for me, despite objectively worse performance and image fidelity). It also assumes that people enjoy playing games across different consoles identically, which, from my experience, isn't true; some people just prefer to game within specific ecosystems, even if they own more powerful systems. People will play a game like The Witcher 3 on PS4 even if they own a PC capable of running it better, because they enjoy the Playstation experience more. Why wouldn't the same be true for the Nintendo experience?

Here's the thing: gaming is a luxury hobby, so the "rational" or "logical" decision to make is the one that will satisfy you the most. If playing as many games on Switch as possible is what makes you happy, then, no, playing the Switch version of a game is perfectly rational.

Playing games at the highest possible resolution and framerate isn't necessarily everyone's biggest consideration when it comes to choosing a platform to play a game on.

The word "Pro" is sadly overused especially when it comes to the rumors like the improved Switch one. When we call a product "Pro", it usually aimed for professionals like movie makers, photographers, or any content creators that want to make money from the device. Here, in this case, it's silly to call the rumored console Switch "Pro" because it has a high-end hardware. Heck, even the PS4 Pro, when it was released, sounded silly because all it did was upscaling the resolution of the gameplay to 4K without improving many details of some games.

Even calling it New Nintendo Switch would be misleading. If you ask me, I'd rather they hold on to announcing new hardware for like 2-3 years later. If you like my opinion of the rumored Switch console, Switch Ultra would be a better name for it.

Just call it Switch Advance or Super Switch for the lolz

Well the Switch Pro controller (which has existed since the beginning of the Switch) pretty much guarantees that unless the new Switch was a home console only counterpart to the Switch (like how the Switch Lite is a handheld only counterpart) bundled with the Switch Pro controller, it wouldn't be called the Switch Pro.

Super Switch, Switch Advance, etc. would be misleading because consoles like SNES and GBA were next generation successors.

I think they'd pick something like New Switch.