Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

@JaxonH
And I never thought I'd see the day when someone can't accept that there are objective logical factors that determine how good a console is. Same thing goes with any product, really.

You can walk around mumbling to yourself about how awesome the Wii U is, for instance, but objectively it made very little logical sense as a console. It didn't have the games, it didn't have a comfortable controller, it didn't have the power, and it didn't have a robust ecosystem where most people had lots of friends playing on it.

The Switch is doing so well because it has that hybrid element that no other console has had before. It's what gave someone like me another objective reason to go with the Switch version of a game instead of the PS version despite the graphics not being as good and not as many of my friends playing on it.

There comes a point when you're just being a contrarian. And for those of us who were around these boards when the Wii U was the current console, there was a lot of "but this console is so great why aren't people buying it?" Say whatever you want, yell at the world however much you want, but there are eventually realities that you need to face. The Switch, if it wasn't hybrid, would never have made it as a console. It would have been a flop. It would have had nothing other than its first-party games that PS and Xbox didn't already have. It would have been an illogical choice for the vast majority of gamers.

It would be very odd for Switch Pro to have exclusives, when increasingly even brand new consoles apparently don't have exclusives. :V

@rallydefault
Well, believe it.

There are objective, logical factors that determine how good a console is... in a specific regard, NOT as an objective truth for all people.

I didn't like the Wii U nearly as much as Switch. I think most people would agree with that. HOWEVER, if someone said hey, I love the gamepad to death, and Xenoblade X is my favorite game of all time, and I like this system more than anything else... wtf am I to tell them what's best for them? And what's best for them is what matters.

You can tout "more total games" and "better graphics" all day long. And yes, graphically speaking it can be the better console, in that specific regard. But that does not automatically make it the OVERALL better console, which depends on what the user prefers and the aspects they value. The GRAPHICALLY SUPERIOR console may just be the INFERIOR console in regards to other aspects that matter more to all these other people. Who are you to declare one aspect objectively more important than another? You said it yourself, games matter most. And yet games are completely subjective. One good game on Wii U could outweigh the entire library of another system to a select few. The gamepad could outweigh better graphics for a select few. Who are you to say one group's prefered aspects matter more than another's?

There comes a point when you're just being a contrarian

Point well made. Sounds exactly like what you're doing.

The Switch is doing so well because it has that hybrid element that no other console has had before. It's what gave someone like me another objective reason to go with the Switch version of a game instead of the PS version despite the graphics not being as good and not as many of my friends playing on it.

Again, agree 100%. I'm not sure what you're arguing. We agree on that. And that's my point. You valued that aspect more so it made it the BETTER CONSOLE FOR YOU. Others may value graphics or friends which makes other consoles BETTER FOR THEM. But graphical superiority does NOT = overall superiority for everyone. Likewise, hybrid superiority does NOT equal overall superiority for everyone. It depends on what the person values.

"but this console is so great why aren't people buying it?

Because it didn't offer something enough people valued enough over the price. That didn't make it objectively worse, it just made it unpopular with subjective preferences. There were objectively inferior aspects about the console- many, in fact, but it still comes down to opinions. And there WERE people who said they loved Wii U more than any other system. Who said it was a better console to them than any other. It comes down to the individual. Doesn't mean it'll always be the most popular opinion or preference, but it's still an opinion and a preference.

Btw, I'm not yelling at the world, or anyone for that matter. No idea what you're talking about.

It would have been a flop. It would have had nothing other than its first-party games that PS and Xbox didn't already have. It would have been an illogical choice for the vast majority of gamers

Probably, but that wouldn't have been due to being objectively inferior, it would have been because the majority of preferences didn't align with what it offered. Opinions and preferences don't suddenly become "facts" the minute there's a 51% majority concensus. It just makes it a popular preference. That's all. It may be based on many inferior aspects of a system, but you can NEVER claim graphics are objectively better than portability or vise versa, you can NEVER claim one library of games is objectively better than another. All you can do is have a preference. And maybe 99% of people on earth agree with that preference. But... it's still a preference.

And there are many systems where the vast majority agree were not as good as another. But majority preference isn't the same thing as objective fact. Otherwise every single Metacritic score would be gospel, and anyone who tried claiming a 77/100 game is better than some other 78/100 game would be shot down by the "objective truth" of majority opinion. It's nonsensical. You can say "I don't like system A as much as system B because it's objectively inferior in regards to X, Y and Z, and being superior in regards to P and Q doesn't make up for the inferior aspects", and that's completely fine. And you may find many people agree with that analysis. But that doesn't make it some transcendental truth. P and Q may be so amazing for some people that not only do they outweigh X, Y and Z, they make it a more desirable console than anything else on the market. Who are you to say X, Y and Z objectively matter more than P and Q? What, just because more people agree with the opinion that makes it fact? That's not rational logic.

I agree with reallydefault's general point but I think he underestimates other factors that lead to Switch's success.

I dunno what he's trying to do with the word objectively though. Like I don't always use that word super literally either, so I get it, but if y'all try to connect popularity with objective fact, I might have to make things horribly awkward in this thread.

Interesting.

Nvidia has a job posting referencing SoC’s with AI capabilities (DLSS) for gaming consoles. And since Switch is the only gaming console who uses Nvidia...

Very Very Valet on Nintendo Switch.

https://www.play-asia.com/very-very-valet/13/70e88b

That argument across the last few pages is... pretty dumb. Speaking for myself, if a multi-platform game comes out on both Switch and PC? Getting it on PC is more rational given I can play it at higher resolutions and refresh rates across multiple machines. But I will pick up less demanding games and/or games that lend themselves to portable play on Switch given it is also a portable console. It's also a simpler local-multiplayer experience than PC.

I don't think there's much debate to be had over that, these are pretty widely accepted views. And I don't think a Switch Pro changes that equation much at all.

This is true however by the time this Switch Pro appears we'll be at the very least approaching five years since the Switch launched. I don't think a Switch Pro needs more horsepower to be a viable refresh. It gets to the point where you can get a large performance bump for a trivial increase in price. So why wouldn't they?

Remember, they rather silently released a revision of the Switch with a ~25% performance bump and the price didn't go up. If they do that again they're up at ~60% above the original Switch. Combine that with more/faster RAM and more/faster internal storage? They could fairly comfortably bump the resolution of existing games up a tier.

I don't know the bulk pricing but based on retail pricing for RAM, SSDs, the rumoured cost of these OLED panels AND lets say an additional $15 for a SoC that's another 25% up on the 2019 refresh. At a guess this is what the cost of upgrading RAM/storage/LCD/SoC would be:

4GB -> 8GB RAM: $20
LCD -> OLED: $5 (they're apparently getting these for <$20!)
32GB -> 240GB NAND: $20
SoC + 25%: $15

$60US additional. Remembering that the price of other components are also dropping. In theory what we'd probably see is the above SKU either coming in at $350US with the other SKUs staying largely where they are. Or we'd see the Pro come in at $300US and the non-Pro SKU getting a price cut before slowly being phased out. Would people who already have a Switch rush out to upgrade? Probably not. But I don't think Nintendo really needs that, if they did they would've made a bigger deal about the 2019 revision.

With that said, I for one would upgrade just for an OLED panel. I have a launch SKU so there will be a performance bump for me anyways. Also would make a reasonable excuse to get a second Switch

Yeah I agree the argument across the past few pages seems a little silly. I don't believe you can objectively or "logically" rank such different choices as a hybrid / home console outside of individual preference. To use an outdated example, it's like saying a record player is objectively better than a walkman because of sound quality...but despite both being methods of playing music, their applications are different. If I mostly listen to music while commuting (which, outside of lockdown, I do), a record player is useless to me.

That's fine if you think it's dumb, but you just typed my exact point lol

@JaxonH
Sigh. It's always the same with you, man. Just read what I quoted from Skywake. If you don't wanna listen to me, you'll probably listen to him. There are just widely accepted truths when it comes to rationally selecting a gaming console. If you're gonna keep fighting that, then have at it. You're exhausting to debate.

@kkslider5552000
Objectively. Factually. Like, the Switch is objectively a less powerful gaming machine than a PS5. That's how I'm using the word. My toaster can objectively reach a higher temperature than your toaster. There are certain objective things that matter to consumers, and no amount of anecdotes and "Well, I FEEL in my heart that the Switch is a powerful machine" can change those things.

@MrFox
<insert internet catchphrase here followed by tongue-in-cheek self deprecating quip>

@rallydefault
I could say the same about you. The difference is, I don’t take it personal when someone has an opposing viewpoint. You on the other hand, get personally offended and lash out any time someone does not bend knee to your personal viewpoints.

Nobody’s disputing the Switch is objectively more powerful. It’s not. And IN THAT ONE RESPECT, other systems are objectively superior. But that’s not the only aspect that matters with consoles. IN OTHER RESPECTS, other systems are objectively inferior. You cannot play your PS4 games anywhere so it is an objectively inferior console in that respect. Objectively inferior, that’s a fact. You can’t dispute that. And so you have one console that’s superior in one respect, and another console that’s superior in another respect- which one matters more comes down to the individual’s preference. Why this is so hard for you to grasp is beyond me.

I have to start considering the possibility it is because you do not want to grasp it. That you feel the need to believe PC is the “best” platform. Starting to sound like PCMR rhetoric.

@skywake
Getting it on PC is more rational given I can play it at higher resolutions and refresh rates across multiple machines. But I will pick up less demanding games and/or games that lend themselves to portable play on Switch give

Ya. More rational for you. Not for everyone. Because you have your personal preferences and your personal preferences are that you value resolution and refresh rates more than you value portability and the hybrid advantage. So ya, for you, that’s logical. For others, that’s not logical. For others, the logical choice is always Switch given they can play the exact same games and have just as much fun, yet do it anywhere.

It just comes down to what you personally value. Your preference for the system with superior power and what you perceive as a superior game library does not trump other people’s’ preference for the system with superior versatility and what they perceive as the superior game library.

@JaxonH
I have always been one of the more middle-grounded people on this board and I have conceded many a point to many people.

I can say you are exhausting to debate. I can say it's always the same stuff from you. I can even claim that I believe you were trying to be snarky with your original post.

But I will refrain from making baseless assumptions about your core personal character. Hope you feel better, man.

@rallydefault
By “always the same stuff” you mean to say, I won’t kowtow to your misguided opinion?

Because that’s all I’ve done. I have an opinion and I vehemently disagree with you. If that constitutes “alwaus the same stuff” then so be it. I’m not going to cower in the corner from voicing my opinion when I know for a fact I’m right.

@JaxonH
Uhm...no. I really don't even know what you mean by that. By "always the same stuff" I mean that any time someone gets in a debate with you, you follow the same procedure of just beating them into submission, refusing to budge from claims that are deubunked, and then sprinkling in personal insults.

@rallydefault
I haven’t “beaten” anyone. All I’ve done is argue a counterpoint to your misguided claim.

And I refuse to budge because you haven’t shown any evidence that I’m wrong. You never will because you can’t disprove a persons preference as being wrong.

You haven’t debunked anything.

And I haven’t insulted anyone!

You’re just making things up out of thin air at this point! In fact, it’s you that’s the one who always insults people! The “I could never be friends with someone like you in real life“ and “you just want to be snarky” and “always the same stuff with you“. Ya. Insults all around from you every time someone disagrees with your almighty opinion.

What exactly have I said to “insult you”? Hmmm?

You’re being completely irrational and illogical, you think your opinions are facts, and anytime someone doesn’t agree with your misguided opinions, which you think automatically “debunk” any opposing views, you get angry at them because you think they are denying “facts.”

What is @rallydefault doing here ? 🤨

@JaxonH
It's not irrational to admit that consumers tend to choose things that are objectively better than other things.

Again, say whatever you want about me. Make whatever assumptions you want. I'll be the punching bag. But I know a lot of long-term people on this board are reading my posts and nodding their nods. A lot probably aren't, too lol Whatever. But it's always the same with you.

I can say that I probably wouldn't be friends with you (I don't remember that one - was that from a while ago?) I can say it's always the same with you. I stick by those statements.

But I will not sink to your level and personally insult you.

@rallydefault
will not sink to your level and personally insult you

Lol, my guy. You’re not making sense. I have not insulted you and yet you keep repeating that despite the fact it is blatantly false. The fact is, I am the one who has not stooped to your level, as you have insulted me no less than three times while I have not returned it in kind.

I had this ex girlfriend once who punched me in the face and then called the cops and told them I hit her. This is starting to feel eerily reminiscent of that.

And that alone should be all the evidence needed to discredit everything you’re saying.

It's not irrational to admit that consumers tend to choose things that are objectively better than other things

“Tendency” is not the same as it being a law of physics that can never be broken. Otherwise the most popular console would be the objectively superior console. Are you prepared to admit the PS2 is objectively superior to PC, Switch, PS4 and PS5 because people chose it more? And when Switch breaks the all time record, are you prepared to admit it is the objectively superior console since people “choose what is objectively superior”? Be careful what you say, because that day is soon approaching. And if you are not prepared to make that admission when the time comes, then perhaps you need to rethink what you’re saying.

Besides which, life is not one dimensional. All consoles have aspects in which they’re superior, and aspects in which they’re inferior. Which aspect matters more to the consumer will determine which one is the superior console for their own personal needs and desires.

@JaxonH
Ok. You just compared me to someone who punched you in the face and shifted blame but you're not the one personally insulting me and assuming my character.

This is getting really messed up.

@rallydefault
I absolutely did.

That’s not an insult, it’s a comparison to illustrate what’s happening right now. But you’re so desperate to find something to claim I’ve insulted you by, of course you would cling to that and try to claim it’s an “insult”. Gotta retcon something to validate your previous claim, right?

The good ol’ “victimize, then blame your victim as the victimizer” strategy. Insult, then blame the insulted as the insulter.

I’m starting to see a pattern here.