Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

(directed towards nobody in particular)

You're on these forums because you appreciate Nintendo and their franchises. Right? Then you need to come to terms with the fact that Nintendo is going to ride their niche as a provider of portable gaming experiences, first and foremost, for the foreseeable future.

@rallydefault
You're misunderstanding.

I agree 100%. That would be logical... if that's what a person values most, but not objectively logical for everyone as some transcendental truth

Again, it comes down to preference and values. If a person values playing with their friends most, then for them and them only, that is their personal logical choice. Not everyone's logical choice. Others may not give two whiffs about playing with their friends, and yet still others may care, but they care about other things more.

We are not in disagreement here. I'm simply delineating the difference between claims that certain platforms are objectively superior regardless of your preferences, which is absolute hogwash horse manure fanboy console warrior nonsense. Platform A is not objectively a better choice just because it's more powerful. It may be subjectively a better choice for you based on your personal values but that is all it is.

PS/Xbox/PC is absolutely, 100% not a more logical choice than Switch. There is only preference. IF you value one thing, you may choose PS/Xbox/PC. And yet IF you value other things, you may choose Switch. But power doesn't automatically carry more objective weight than the hybrid advantage.

But what I was saying before with regards to power losing its effect as a system becomes more powerful, it's hard to explain mathematically if someone isn't familiar. A picture is worth a thousand words.

@JaxonH
To what person would liking the games and having friends on a system not be objective logical good choices?

@rallydefault
A person who likes the games and has friends on the system but also likes playing portably, and values that more.

It's literally a question of what a person values most. And what a person values is subjective, not objective.

@JaxonH
I never said that liking portability wasn't also logical. I'm just saying that liking games and having friends on the system are never not logical.

@rallydefault Well, also take into account that for anyone who doesn't play online games (such as myself 99% of the time) having friends on the ecosystem is pointless. It just so happens that most of my friends have Switches right now, but I play with them (non-locally) maybe once a year at most?

So count me as a person who doesn't care about friends on the ecosystem.

Edit: more generally, anyone who mostly values single player games over multiplayer is more likely to also care about things like portability over library size.

@rallydefault
Yes, they are logical things to like if they happen to be things you personally value. As link3710 pointed out, not everyone values those particular things.

So again, it comes down to things people value. That includes but is not limited to: friends, power, games (both exclusive and multiplat), gyro, ease of use, portability, tabletop ability, tv play, controller comfort, rumble effect, storage, price, online cost vs benefits, OS speed, etc.

These are all logical candidates for being valued. But everyone is different and everyone will place a different weight of importance to each specific factor. Obviously people will choose what's logical for themselves. That's how human reasoning tends to work. We choose what makes the most sense to us. But what makes the most sense to us will not make the most sense to everyone else.

It comes down to what a person values most. And no two people are alike. And my point was and continues to be, that none of those candidate factors are inherently superior over the others. It all comes down to what each individual values the most personally.

@JaxonH
Wow, what was that Mathematic formula measure about ?

@Anti-Matter
Diminishing returns of "additional fun added to the experience" as power increases, to visually demonstrate why a more powerful Switch makes a lot more sense than a PS4 Pro or Xbox One X ever did.

Finally those scientist have stopped work on a cure for coivd, cold fusion and nuclear transmutation so they could figure out the formula for fun! ;p

@Magician tbh I had completely forgotten about it, which probably isn't a good sign.

@link3710 @JaxonH
Ok, so now we live in a world where people buy game consoles that don't have games they like.

You guys are a real piece of work sometimes lol

People buy game consoles that have the games they want to play. It's a logical decision. PS/Xbox have way more games than the Switch. Chances are, for most people, PS/Xbox would make more logical sense for a primary gaming console purchase. Buying something that plays the games you like is not just a "candidate" or preference or whatever; it's the absolute baseline factor in buying something as a consumer.

@rallydefault Why are you putting words into my mouth? I literally only spoke about the matter of friends in the same ecosystem.

And I'm just over here anxiously awaiting the arrival of blaster master zero 3 😁

@rallydefault

People buy game consoles that have the games they want to play. It's a logical decision.

Of course they do. But it's not the only factor. One system may have 11 games they want to play, while another system has 8, BUT, those 8 can be played portably. Or with gyro. So even then, "having the most games" isn't automatically the best choice. It's not automatically the "logical choice". It's one factor assigned a weight and compared with other factors. Obviously a system needs at least ONE game a person wants, but that's kind of a given.

PS/Xbox have way more games than the Switch. Chances are, for most people, PS/Xbox would make more logical sense for a primary gaming console purchase.

Switch sales say otherwise. And that's precisely because just having "more games" doesn't really mean much. As long as a system has enough games to satisfy, having "more" isn't really bringing much more to the table. Furthermore, not all games are equal. System B could have 2,000 games, but system A has 3 games better than any of those 2,000, and playing those 3 games is worth more to someone than 2,000 games they'd enjoy half as much. That's not an argument that holds water.

What actually matters is how many games you want to play, how badly you want to play each one of them, the benefits of playing them on a particular system, etc. It's so much deeper than just counting a numerical sum total.

Buying something that plays the games you like is not just a "candidate" or preference or whatever; it's the absolute baseline factor in buying something as a consumer.

It's a baseline factor but not the only factor. As explained above.

There is no default "better system" or "one size fits all logical choice". There is only preference. PS5/X1 could have twice as many games with better graphics, yet those games can only be enjoyed with 33% of the versatility, and without gyro. On top of which, different games appeal to people differently. Many feel the best games in the industry are Nintendo exclusives. And for those people, they're going to weigh the Switch as more valuable.

I never thought I'd see the day saying "the best console depends on what you value as an individual" would be so vehemently disputed by someone.

Have you taken I to account the amount of people that only use the switch as a secondary console so extra power isn't an issue - I would imagine most gamers have multiple systems nowadays so an increased (although still under) powered switch isn't that big an issue.
With games launching on the system like MHrise and running/looking amazing why do we need a portable PS4

@Mr-Fuggles777
Of course there's some people like that. But just because there's some people like that doesn't mean they're to ignore the tens of millions of people who aren't like that.

We don't "need" anything other than food, clothing and shelter. Video games has never been about "need".

We don't "need" a Nintendo Switch at all. Or a PS, or Xbox. Or PC. We don't even need video games in general. Its never been about "needing", it's about wanting. Tens of millions of people want a more powerful Switch. Guarantee almost all developers want a more powerful Switch too.

What you personally want or need is irrelevant. If you want to keep playing the current Switch, then keep playing the current Switch. But this train is moving forward, and you can't stop it. Nintendo WILL release a more powerful Switch, whether you think they "need" it or not. And people will gobble it up, because that's exactly what tons of people want.

@JaxonH tens of million of people also wanted an upgrade and more powerful version of the Wii - Where did they go when the wii-U launched, because they obviously weren't buying consoles.

Nintendo has managed to catch the casual market (people who don't normally buy consoles) with the Switch. Why would they look to isolate that crowd with an updated console at the peak of its success? Especially if there are games launching that would be unplayable on the new system.

The PS4 Pro and X1X were power house consoles designed to grab the hard-core gamer sales with enhanced performance. A slight visual upgrade and an extra AA battery in a switch Pro hardly attracts the same market share - especially when it can't even compete with the XsS and it would have a significantly higher price point as the standard switch is already more expensive.

@Mr-Fuggles777
No... that's incorrect.

Wii U was not a Wii HD. Wii captured casuals and they left before Wii U. They were too late, a mistake they WONT be making again with Switch by waiting too long. Wii U had a gamepad controller and an OS so slow you could watch paint dry doing anything on the system. There are separate reasons that system failed. Switch is completely opposite.

Switch is NOT like the Wii. The Wii captured the casual audience. Switch has captured the core gaming audience. Proof of this is in the incredible sales of core 3rd party games, many not only outselling Xbox versions, but even the PS versions.

And they're not "isolating" anyone. Not one single person is going to miss a game they otherwise would have gotten. Not one single person will have any difference of experience if a new Switch never came. #1) Nintendo isn't releasing exclusive games. #2 Any 3rd party exclusives are games that couldn't have ran anyways, so those people wouldn't have been able to play regardless.

The PS4 Pro and X1X were power house consoles designed to grab the hard-core gamer sales with enhanced performance. A slight visual upgrade and an extra AA battery in a switch Pro hardly attracts the same market share

Wrong again. That's EXACTLY what this is. That's exactly what this is. A powerhouse HYBRID to grab hard-core gamer sales. It's a hybrid. Standards of what constitutes powerful is different than home consoles. A 4k capable handheld with OLED is 100% a powerhouse for the core audience. And if you doubt that, sit back and observe what happens post launch.

specially when it can't even compete with the XsS and it would have a significantly higher price point as the standard switch is already more expensive

Regular Switch can't compete graphically with XSS or even Xbox One S, and had a higher price. People still bought it. People don't care if Xbox One S is "more powerful" because it's not hybrid. It's as simple as that. People want a hybrid. And they want the most powerful hybrid they can get their hands on. Just like other people want a home console, and want the most powerful home console they can get their hands on.

I'm not going to continue debating the merits of a Switch Pro. You feel free to believe whatever you want. But a lot of people are dying to get their hands on a more powerful Switch, and this new model is gonna Smash. It will only serve to eat away even more marketshare from PS/Xbox. The small advantages those systems have will get even smaller as a 4K capable OLED switch closes the gap even more.

There's no question that all the Switch games will be playable on any upgrade version, though.... Only a possibility that a few might come for that which wouldn't be playable on the existing ones
Which is part of why I'm saying they'd carry on selling those as well.