Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

@Dezzy
Holy smokes.

I just swapped my HDMI cable I was using for Switch, from the stock one to a 2.1 HDMI (I know switch can’t output 4K, but the stock cable is still limited to 1080p I think), and then checked out Monster Hunter Rise, comparing by toggling the cable on and off, and ya, it makes a pretty noticeable difference. The game looks insanely gorgeous for a Switch title, but if you get really close to the 4KTV screen you can see all of the imperfections. But they are so much worse without the M cable on. Like, noticeably worse. Edges are way more jagged, face detail didn’t look as clear, backgrounds didn’t look quite as sharp. I’m actually kind of taken aback by the delta between off and on. I’m not sure if the new cable had anything to do with that, or if it’s just been so long since I looked at a switch game on the TV without the mClassic on I’d forgotten what a difference it makes.

But suffice it to say, this little experiment has given me a whole new appreciation for mClassic. Overall I suppose yeah, it’s still relatively small changes. But because Switch games run between 720p and 1080p, even small deltas can have a reasonably sized impact on perceived fidelity.

What do you mean? The controls are the same they've always been. I find them to be tight and responsive. Odyssey feels floaty and loose to me. I've been saying that on this board since Odyssey came out. Something just didn't feel right about Mario's physics and control feel, at least to me. Maybe I'm just used to the tighter feel of the earlier 3D games.

@rallydefault Having played both games relatively recently, I couldn't disagree more. Mario's movement in 64 is VERY slippery. He feels weightless, and any kind of forward motion makes him feel like he's bulldozing his way forward. I never felt fully in control of Mario in that game. And that's putting aside the fact that even the tiniest changes in level geometry will send him sliding across terrains made of rock and grass like he's on the world's slipperiest ice.

I imagine the issue is that his every movement is intimately tied to slight alterations of the tall and stiff analog stick on the N64. The sense of movement translates horribly to modern pads.

Mario has a sense of weight in Odyssey. His every movement is deliberate, and the combination of the "heavier" feel to the character and the actually decent physics makes his movements much tighter.

And, in general, that has been true of every other 3D Mario game I've played. Only Mario 64 feels terrible to control.

@rallydefault I have to agree with Ralizah. Having studied the actual movement system of Mario 64 in depth, there's a few things to take into account. Gravity in that game is (I'm pretty sure) the strongest in any 3D Mario. This does have the benefit of landing faster, which might be why you see the controls as more responsive. But even Sunshine was about 40% slower in falling acceleration. (Though, do keep in mind I'm pretty sure terminal velocity is also higher in later titles, thus making many jumps take the same time or even less time than 64.)

When it comes to running, 64 will (usually, as long as slopes aren't involved) just instantly go to max speed upon moving the control stick all the way. Odyssey on the other hand has a small bit of speeding up when movement starts (consistently). Stopping functions about the same in each.

But what's probably the most notable difference in ground movement is Mario 64's turn radius. This is the love it or hate it part of the physics IMO. In 64, you can't just instantly turn while moving (at any speed). Instead, if you're moving at all, you'd have a turn radius as you turned around.

This actually works pretty well for giving it a nice feel while moving at a high speeds in open areas. But... in return, at low speeds and on tight platforms Mario will suddenly move in directions the player didn't press, typically walking right off to his doom.

Everything from Sunshine onward ditched that, giving full control of Mario to the player and never moving him in directions the player didn't press. I'd wager though that that turn radius and the higher gravity is why it feels more weighty to you, despite Mario's actual movements being far more refined in terms of momentum handling in later titles.

@link3710
But you're proving my point when you say 64's gravity seems the "strongest in any 3D Mario" - that gives weight to the character, which is exactly what I said. I mean... that's what gravity does. It gives weight. It provides a huge swath of the physics.

As for the momentum, again, that's exactly what I love. Yes, slopes and stuff affect him, but it feels better and (although dumb to say for a video game) more realistic to me. If you're gonna belly wop against a sloped surface, yea, you're not gonna go far, and then you're gonna start to reverse direction and come back down. You gotta compensate. To jump, double jump, and triple jump in 64 just feels awesome, and I know where it's gonna take me. Jumping in Odyssey feels slippery and I never quite know where I'm gonna land, for some reason.

Also, Mario's moveset in 64 is the de facto suite, in my opinion. No throwing of the hat to hit enemies or create platforms or spin a little circle around you. Just the good old-fashioned slide, long jump (probably my favorite), and, yes, the punch-punch-kick combo lol "Ya, wa, HOO!" It's just classic and I still love it to this day.

@Ralizah
So, yea, we just disagree totally lol (P.S. I hate Sunshine)

@rallydefault I wasn't proving your point exactly. I was trying to get across that Mario is quite literally heavier in Mario 64, which is what you mean, but that's not what most people mean when they talk about weight.

When people say a character feels weighty, they mean that the character has a proper sense of momentum and don't start and stop on a dime. That when they got an enemy theres a proper feeling impact. That slopes affect the characters speed while running.

Basically, the physics in Odyssey are much more in line with what our real world sensibilities tell us to expect. But 64's physics are so simple, that you can learn them if you spend enough time playing. To a new player, Odyssey will almost always feel better though.

My problem with the physics in 64 is how the game breaks its own rules regarding them.

Sometimes you turn on a dime. Sometimes you walk in an arc.

Sometimes you can walk up a near 180 degree stone structure, and in that same level a gentle stone slope is impassable.

Some slopes made of ice you can walk up. Some you can't.

It's not the surface determining what you can and can't walk up, which leads me to believe it's the angle of the slopes, but even then that's not true either.

Its like the game teaches you early on what is too steep and what isn't, how Mario turns and reacts to surfaces.

And then it quickly drops it.

@link3710
lol but if that's what I mean, then that's my point. I'm not talking about "most people," I'm talking about me. You did prove my point.

It's fine, I'm not here to "win" any kind of discussion. I'm just speaking my point that 64's physics, gravity, and character movement feel better to me than Odyssey's. I had issues with Odyssey's controls (and game design with too many moons and only a couple worlds I felt were truly fun) from the start, and as a result it became the only 3D Mario I haven't 100% multiple times. There were parts of Odyssey that were enjoyable, but for me it was shockingly flawed in some of the fundamental systems that just made the whole experience flat for me. I remember moving Mario for the first time and just being like... this doesn't feel right. And even after dozens and dozens of hours, I still couldn't get into the groove of it.

I think what's surprising (yet probably shouldn't be) is that by now there doesn't seem to be 95-100% consistency in how Mario moves from game to game. Odyssey moves differently to SM3DW, which moves differently to Galaxy, which moves differently to Sunshine, which moves differently to 64. But input devices change, game design changes, etc so I don't know why I'm surprised or even typing this FML

@gcunit

Pretty much impossible given the massive change in control scheme and camera control between 3D World and Odyssey. Something like 8 directional movement made perfect sense in 3D World, given that the levels were presented from a fixed camera angle, meaning they could line up the world with those 8 directional axis. It would make no sense at all in Odyssey though.

@Haruki_NLI It never fails to get me that slight inclines on grassy surfaces will send Mario flying, but you can run straight up those pillars in Shifting Sand Land. It clearly took Ninendo a bit to figure out how to accurately model Mario's relationship to sloped surfaces.

@rallydefault Pity. Sunshine holds up quite a bit better, IMO, in terms of the physics, controls, and Mario's moveset. I really liked how, unlike 64, which had a lot of pointless movements (does anyone ever punch anything or crawl anywhere in that game?), every aspect of Mario's moveset is useful in Sunshine.

Although I'll admit that the lack of long jumping was disappointing. I'm glad they brought that back in Galaxy.

@Ralizah
What?! You don't punch stuff in 64?! That's like all I do lol And jump kicks. Crawling is for when you're really not sure what's going on with a slim platform (or your life).

I have such a fun time with 64. Back when I was a kid, I would just shmooze around for hours just exploring every little nook and cranny. Tripe jumping all over the place like it was my job. Doing crazy slides down those pyramids lol And then 3D Collection came out and... I'm doing the exact same thing lol It's just the definition of "classic" for me. I think Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time are in the top 5 games ever made on any system, and that's saying a lot.

Sunshine's FLUDD controls make me wish I doing my taxes instead. And like you said, they took away the long jump. Ugh.

@gcunit every 3D Mario game Nintendo use a Engine that give the game, it distinct physic and mechanics, that why you dont see Super Mario Galaxy or Super 3D World physics and mechanics in others 3D Mario games(with the exceptions of remakes and sequels of this games).

Anyone hear anything about a game called Republic coming to Switch? Supposedly it was leaked. My aunt was asking about it.

@rallydefault Same I love just messing around in 64 its so fun. And sunshine is.... ok to me but no where as fun as 64 galaxy or odyssey lol

@Heavyarms55

I believe Republic was listed in Nintendo's "coming soon" section for a few hours before it was pulled down. To my knowledge it's a stealth game, although I've personally never played it.

@Vasilios
Yea. And honestly, I like Galaxy a lot. I would also take that one over Odyssey.

@rallydefault Galaxy is my favorite game of all time. I think it's a better game than Odyssey but Odyssey is my 2nd favorite game but it has a lot more replayability compared to Galaxy so it's pretty tough to decide for me if I had to have one or the other. Luckily I have both of course lol

@Magician Okay. Just asking cause I was asked. Lol

Thanks dude!

I saw various rumours & leaks for that, too, @Heavyarms55 .... It's entirely possible, since it was originally ios & then Android years before coming to Steam &, I think, other consoles! The curious thing would be what's taking so long but there could be all sorts of reasons for that