Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

@sixrings It's not just Series owners. Anyone with an Xbox One would have been affected as well since the raise in price was for both systems, and most people still playing on XB1 are less likely to have GamePass since they aren't the early adopter type.

As for being supportive...? I still don't know what you're talking about. The only people who aren't made welcome here are people who are clearly trolling and saying things that are basically non-sensical in order to piss people off. A.K.A. trolls. And people always reach out to them first regardless.

I'm not convinced a whole lot pierces the bubble that exists around Nintendo of Japan, which, let's be real, is the only place that actually matters when it comes to long-term strategy and game development philosophy.

Even when Nintendo responds to criticism or controversy, it's in the quietest, least reactive sense possible. Like Switch becoming a region-free device. Or Nintendo ditching regional censorship and making sure the games they publish are content identical throughout the world.

The most reactive move I've seen from them is their emergency price cut of the 3DS early in its lifespan. Money talks, and it's clear Nintendo knew where their bread was going to be buttered that gen. They weren't willing to have one of their portable consoles underperform because it was overpriced.

While it's a bit frustrating to feel like your voice isn't being heard, it does at least avoid making you look foolish, or like you don't have a strategy.

@sixrings
False equivalency. Strawman.

Nobody claimed criticism is trolling, and nobody's shaming anyone for feeling how they feel.

You're trying to make the case that, "it's ok to bitch 24/7 in the forum because Nintendo might read it, so I'm going to treat the discussion board like the customer support forum, and anyone who doesnt like it is just "shaming others".

That's nonsense. Absolute nonsense. You don't get brownie points for whinging. That's the easiest thing anyone can do. You're not standing on some morally righteous pedestal because you, oh great keyboard warrior, have the courage to whinge in the forum while other, more cowardly and deplorable members don't.

Nobody cares if you or anyone else has criticism. Nobody cares how you feel. Half the discussions here ARE ABOUT CRITICISMS. But they're civil, they're in good faith, and they're not done in some fanboy "gotchya" attempt to take jabs, and they're definitely not done out of some ill-conceived desire to advertise your bucket list of complaints to a billion dollar corporation overseas. What people DO care about, is when people use that as a justification to troll and derail discussions under the pretense of, "some intern at Nintendo might some day read this".

No, they wont. And even if they did, its not the place for it. Take it to twitter. Take it to customer support. Take it somewhere else. Nobody wants to hear someone whine and cry all day over and over in the hopes that "Nintendo might see it". There are other, proper avenues for that. The discussion board is not one of them.

Now. If you have something constructive to say and actually want to discuss, and arent just spamming complaints hoping Nintendo reads it, that's different. But if someone keeps repeating it and it's less of a discussion and more of a dunk fest, don't be surprised when you get blocked, banned, and nobody wants to talk to you.

Social media and support forums are the most widely used and acceptable method of customer feedback. THAT is where feedback needs to be directed. Not here. This is not the 1-800 hotline for bug fixes and customer satisfaction surveys. This is a discussion board. To discuss things. The fact you think it's ok to commandeer other people's discussions and use it as a personal tool for customer feedback insulting to the members who come here for genuine discourse.

Nuance in all things. There is nothing wrong with voicing feedback. In fact, that's a GOOD thing. You SHOULD voice feedback, as I do all the time on Twitter. But that's the difference, I do it ON TWITTER. Not here. Theres a time and place for everything, and this is not the place. MS reversed course not because of some random comment on PureXbox forum, but because of the overwhelming pressure on social media and mainstream journalists. THAT is where the pressure point lies. THAT is where you carry your picket sign and protest. THAT is how you let them know what you think. It's like going to the local bar and bitching to the bartender all day about Nintendo in the hopes that "maybe a rep will walk in and hear me" and then wondering why the bartender gets sick of hearing it.

@sixrings
I am treating you how I want to be treated.

If I was arguing the irrational case you're arguing, I would hope someone with enough common sense would point out the error of my logic just as I am doing for you now.

I never claimed I was the "forum police". You don't see me issuing you a ticket, do you? You don't see me breaking out handcuffs. You don't see me arresting you.

But that doesnt mean I'm not gonna speak up when I read a ridiculous argument. You better believe I will. If you post here, be prepared for someone to check you on your nonsense.

The whole "nobody allows any criticism at all- I'm the unbiased one and these irrational people just cant stand any criticism, they shame anyone who does, I'm just doing my part to see change happen" is hogwash. A fantasy that does not reside in the realm of reality. It is a weak handheld justification used by those who excessively complain and troll. The reality is, genuine criticism is not only tolerated, its welcomed. But theres a difference between that and whatever it is you're arguing for.

@sixrings
Trying to justify excessive whinging on the basis of advertising customer feedback in a forum designed for peer to peer discussion... pretty safe to say that's utter nonsense.

Thats why the forum exists. It was not created as a customer service outlet. And that's not my righteous perception, that's immutable fact. Using a P2P discussion board as an outlet for customer complaints directed at the company, rather than using social media and actual customer service forums, interferes with discourse. Furthermore, it's a fruitless endeavor anyways.

@jump
That still sounds about right. I don't know what field you're in, so marketing sounds fine, but I have a friend who's worked for a bunch of gaming companies (a lot of MMO stuff) where he was the social media person. His job was almost exclusively about interacting with players on Twitter/Insta, forums, etc., and he would bring customer feedback to regular meetings.

Now, Nintendo is a HUGE company and employs tons of people. I'm just saying that, someone somewhere has the job of keeping their finger on public discussion and stuff like that, and probably taking what they hear to someone above them at regular intervals. Does it go higher or to the actual devs? Likely not, not most of it. But even me being a social media "hater," I have to admit that some stuff does make its way to ears.

@rallydefault
That's reasonable speculation, but even if true, you don't know which forum they keep tabs on, the time frame they read it, or if it would even get passed along anyways.

So, commandeering and transforming discussion boards into customer complaint outlets not only interferes with the genuine discussions on said board, it does so for a tiny statistical probability of successfully passing info along when far better avenues are available (social media, actual customer service websites). 100% chance of derailing discussion, 0.0001% chance of actually communicating opinions to a company. Not a good tradeoff (again, particularly when other, superior avenues are available).

Not that you were making that argument. But ya.

@JaxonH
Right. I doubt they look at forums like this. I was talking moreso your big social media platforms and in some cases game-specific forums like for an MMO or a game-as-service like Anthem.

If anybody at Nintendo would ever look at something outside those social media hubs, it would maybe just be the main news articles of places like this. And most likely it would just be because the employee in question is a gamer and keeps up with stuff like us! lol

@JaxonH first of all people have a right to be upset and not thrilled with every decision Nintendo makes. Second of all a forum is where people are allowed to have conversations about such disappointment. If you are all aboard the Nintendo train and happiness carry on and don’t let others disappointment and posts bother you. No one is trolling. We simply like Nintendo the majority of the time but other times are less than thrilled.

Do I think that Nintendo and or major companies try to follow things like the internet and Twitter to gage public perception. Yes I do. You do not need to believe that but you can’t prove that they are not. I cannot prove they do either I’ll admit. But I don’t think it matters since I’m not the one raging at others for having opposite beliefs. I never resort to name calling like fanboys while repeatedly I am referred to by you as a troll or basement dweller. Just to let you know I own multiple basements.

Ultimately you seem to think it’s your place to put everyone else in their place. You’re right. You didn’t give me or anyone else a ticket. But my god do you like to judge. And then you back it up by saying I’m going to call crap out and I’d want it pointed out if I said anything dumb. First of all you never believe you say any crap so god knows no one can correct you. And second you are acting like you speak for the entire community. I didn’t know when we gave you that power or when you thought you got that power. Either way it’s ridiculous. That’s the crap I’m calling you out on.

Just block me if you can’t be civil and move on. But I’m tired of your judgement.

@sixrings
I'm not even going to read the rest of your post because the first two things you said were completely fabricated strawmans. You need to come correct if you want to have a discussion. It's like, you cant rebut my argument so you're fantasizing a completely different argument I never made so you can attack that instead.

Case in point:

first of all people have a right to be upset and not thrilled with every decision Nintendo makes

100% agreed. Nowhere did I claim otherwise.

Second of all a forum is where people are allowed to have conversations about such disappointment

Again, 100% agreed. Nowhere did I claim otherwise. In fact, if you read my comment from 2 posts ago, I SPECIFICALLY SAID if you want to discuss things rather than dump your bucket list of complaints to advertise to some mythical Nintendo rep supposedly reading all your comments, that's a different story. This was clearly never about criticism.

Nowhere, and in no way, shape or form, did I make the argument, "people dont have the right to ever be upset with Nintendo, and they dont have the right to discuss it either". That's utterly preposterous. You and I both know good and well my argument was against commandeering a discussion forum for your personal use as a customer complaint submission, which IS what you were arguing in favor of. We have your posts in your own words to prove it.

So right off the bat, everything you said was a false claim, and I can only assume the rest of your comment follows suit. And I dont have the time nor the interest to refute repeated false claims of arguments I never made in the first place.

@sixrings
Theres nothing worse than when an irrational, illogical person who loses an argument then resorts to taking jabs at the other person's religion in a last ditch attempt to save face. Same thing the other guy did.

You dont know what you're talking about, you're making irrational arguments, you resort to strawmanning and false claims when you realize you've lost the argument on grounds of logic, and then you make some weird post referencing Biblical characters as if you're sharing some morsel of wisdom and moral superiority.

And thats where the line is drawn. Because you're right. There's not enough room for the both of us. Because logic and anti-logic cannot co-exist. Blocked

@JaxonH Okay I have to ask. What the heck is whinging? At first I thought it was a typo of whining but then you kept saying it.

Yeesh, I'd let it go @jaxonh not worth your time.

@link3710
Bellowing on and on about something, one could say.

@NintendoByNature
Already done.

You can lay out a sound argument step by step, but when someone just categorically refuses to follow the logic for themselves, then resorts to fallacies in some vain effort to appear "right", what more can you do? Idk if it's just an age thing, but the "I'm so morally righteous because I complain" people are so abundant nowadays. "And the more I complain, the more righteous I am- if only you blind lesser beings didnt shame anyone who criticizes Nintendo"

They love acting as if anyone who makes a fair criticism in good faith discussion is oppressed by a legion of fanboys with a zero-criticism policy. They can't discern, or rather, they expect others to not be able to discern the difference between that and trolling under the guise of fair criticism. It must be on page 1 of the forum troll's guide to the galaxy or something.

@JaxonH I see you are punching hard with the logic fu today.

@JaxonH it's the same in politics too. I keep having friends refer me to some personality or other who's supposed to be really good, and I can dismantle their arguments within minutes every time because they just strawman boogie man the opposing side.

@link3710
The problem with politics is there's rarely a desire to seek truth impartially, wherever that may lead. Most people have been brainwashed into a partisan "my side good, other side bad" and so, are easily manipulated. Because everything they view, they do so through the lens of their presuppositions. It's easily to believe such and such because after all it fits the narrative I've bought into. Such and such cant be true, because it's the other side making the argument. And everyone knows the other side is always wrong about everything and is only saying so out of evil intent.

I love having political discussions but it's hard in today's climate because the propaganda is so overwhelming and biased, one way or the other, in every facet of media. So people rarely hear both sides (or they hear a carefully crafted version of one side and an intentionally misrepresented version of the other), nor do they have any interest in doing so.

I want to hear the best version of the argument from each side, and then make a determination according to my own logic and conscience. I don't want to hear one or both side's argument represented as a strawman, or a weak version. I want to base my beliefs on what's truly best, wherever that may come from.

There are some free thinking sites and Youtuber's I've found that dont conform to the expected narratives of culture, promote free speech and do not try to suppress speech of opposing viewpoints. And I have other sources that are biased on each side, but that dont demonize the other and have high level intellectual discussions with the best thinkers of the other side. And they have wine by a fireplace and have deep discussions, not as opponents but as comrades who are genuinely seeking truth. I love that.

During my TV calibration endeavors these past few days I stumbled upon many people claiming Switch and 4k TVs will never work and 'you'd better go handheld' as a result.

I just can't believe these people:
<edit: movie deleted>

@JaxonH lol I hear ya. Sometimes it's best to just roll onwards instead of time wasting. Especially considering he typically looks to get a rise out of people. Its one thing to have some decent conversations or even differing opinions, but as soon as they mock you because of a religion, just check out. Not even worth a reply.

@JaxonH @NintendoByNature he removed the religion comment, didn't he? Or was that the mods?