Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

@WaveWitch And that's basically what I use the Switch for in a nutshell. It's my Nintendo exclusives machine and that's pretty much all she wrote

I only dip into ports if I really like the game question and already own it on other systems to begin with (e.g. Final Fantasy X/X-2), but I am starting to get really fatigued at how much it feels like older games are becoming the norm instead of just something to service new game releases

I don't really take advantage of the Joy-Con feature set because they're mostly attached to the console since I basically use it as just a portable system, while occassionally putting it in the dock for stuff like Smash or Splatoon, but yeah not many games I can think of that used HD Rumble for stuff like immersion or extra features in a game outside the early Switch stuff

For some, the portability might be a factor, and all the power to you but honestly for a console whose whole thing is being able to take current gen games and new experiences on the go I feel like that all gets underhanded with how much old stuff is on the Switch. Zelda at launch really set a precedent for how amazing the ability to put these big AAA experiences on a portable could be, but nowadays it's either, an old game, a current gen game that is way too compromised in so many areas so what's the point, or the occassional first party or third party exclusive

Kind of narrow minded to say, “if I choose not to use the greatest innovation made in the last 30 years of gaming, it doesn’t really have much innovation”. Well ya, of course it doesn’t. Because you’re ignoring the innovation it actually has. Switch is a hybrid system. Studies show the overwhelming majority of people either use handheld mode or both. If you don’t that’s fine, but you can’t really criticize “lack of innovation” as a result of your personal choices. It’s a hybrid system for people who want a hybrid system. If that’s not for you, then you should probably be playing some other console.

I have a PS5 and I haven’t touched it since launch. Great console, like the new magnometer for gyro in the controller, like the HD rumble just as much as in my Switch, but it’s not like it’s going to get used for anything beyond a select game here and there, so aside from select exclusives it’ll never get used. I’d rather play on Steam where I can have better graphics and a better experience with Gyro in every game. But I’m not gonna criticize the console for not being innovative. There’s nothing wrong with the console, it’s just not for me as a main system. There’s nothing wrong with switch, just might not be a main console for you.

Older games on Switch technically don't count as new experiences. They've been available on other platforms for years. They may be new for you and you may have a wonderful time just as i do playing them for the first time but they still don't count

Only fanboys and console warriors keep score like that. Who cares about “what counts”. Gamers just want to play great games. Doesn’t matter if it “counts” or not. Nobody buys a game, plays it, starts having the time of their life and then says, “oh damn... this game released 8 months ago on system A... well, I was having fun, but I guess it doesn’t count, looks like I’ll be playing something else”.

If you prefer pointer controls, play a Wii. Not sure what else to say. Metroid Prime played good at the time but it’s absolutely horrible in hindsight because it didn’t even have a right analog- turning the camera by pointing at the edge of the screen was a godawful experience I hope I never have to endure again, and I can’t wait for a Switch remaster with a superior dual analog gyro control scheme. Because gyro-analog is superior for 99% of games. The only games where it’s not superior is where it’s emulating a pointer like in Mario Galaxy or Pikmin 3, but those games are far and few between. You don’t need to re-center in the vast majority of games because you’re using it in combination with the right analog which recenters it every time you move the stick, which is every few seconds. It never has time to drift.

Joycon are great. Split joycon in each hand is incredibly comfortable, and gives HD rumble effects even better than Dualsense because it’s physically split between hands. It also makes Gyro even easier to use. And sliding them in the grip is surprisingly comfortable. No complaints. But the pro controller is more comfy, and it’s probably my favorite controller of all time. It’s not perfect, but the pro-con cost-benefit analysis weighs more in its favor than any other controller. Comfort is well beyond any other, and the digital triggers are superior for 99% of games (but it does come at the cost of using analog stick for 2 racing games and Trials Rising- small price to pay for snappier button in the other 347 games on my shelf though). The only reason I don’t use it on PC is because it has to connect over Bluetooth which isn’t as good as a dedicated dongle, which I have for my Dualshock 4.

The frustrating thing about the whole "Switch has no games" arguments is that people are always hell-bent on saying games "don't count" for whatever reason - they're on other consoles, they're too similar to other games, they're not to the person's tastes, etc. They'll narrow a list of hundreds of games down to two based on arbitrary criteria.

It's strange that few other systems seem to undergo this scrutiny. Especially considering that Switch ports are inherently more valuable than for other consoles as they often add portability to previously non-portable games. It may not be a big deal to everyone, but has massive appeal to many.

Games are games, and unless you've already managed to play all of Switch's multiplatform library (which I highly doubt), does it really matter if it exists on other consoles?

Personally I feel that Switch already has, without a doubt, the best overall library of any Nintendo console. When it comes to first party titles, I think it's among the top, but not quite there.

@timleon Xbox has started to get it lately with the 'Xbox has no games/exclusives' complaints that have been growing, and Xbox games not counting because they're multiplat with PC.

Which don't get me wrong, is exactly why I have no interest in an Xbox, but it is technically an arbitrary criteria.

I'd say only Sony gets off scott free, and even they dealt with that sort of thing with the PSP/Vita.

Switch obviously has games but for me it has the problem of feeling like older titles are becoming the norm instead of something additive to newer games

I feel like it's kind of underdelivered on its promise in terms of large scale new experiences on the go because there's so many older titles. Older titles are nice don't get me wrong, but like they weren't exactly what sold me on the system

I can totally get behind stuff like bringing Wii U games over to the console since like 15 people total owned a Wii U and played its entire first party library, as well as some of the current gen stuff but 2019 and 2020 especially felt extremely stagnated. People say that Switch ports are inherently more valuable because of portability but that I feel only reigns true for the people who literally don't own any other platform, because it's their only chance at playing a big release and the portability conveinence adds to that. I honestly think that's why certain games like Persona 5 have been oft-requested to be getting that kind of treatment. I haven't gotten ports like Witcher 3, or DOOM Eternal, or Borderlands, or Outer Worlds on Switch because I know there are better options that I have access to like PC and PS4

Sometimes the lessened graphical capability or worse performance can actively work against a game being on Switch as well meaning this sentiment isn't even 100% true for some games

@link3710

“I'd say only Sony gets off scott free, and even they dealt with that sort of thing with the PSP/Vita.”

Eh? They did get the “has no games” complain with PS3 and PS4 too.

“

@WaveWitch I will agree the joycons are the switchs biggest problem. I've had my issues with them and yes they aren't as comfortable.

But from being able to play on the TV which is a rare case for me these days, and playing portably some of nintendos and 3rd party's biggest titles, it's truly a dream come true for me. My biggest issue with my gaming time prior to switch was not having that option. So the switch really got me back into gaming as when I had ps4 Xbox 360 and prior, it was "whenever someone wasn't watching tv." So needless to say nintendo hit the mark for someone like myself.

Don't get me wrong, the switch library isn't perfect...yet. we still need some more metroid( or metroid In general aside from super on the app), donkey kong, and I would love a true vc. It's not a perfect console, but it's by far my favorite.

I don’t think it’s true that only people without other consoles care. Obviously if someone doesn’t have any other consoles they’ll care. I think most of us here have other consoles and yet we still prefer to play games on Switch far more than on any other system. As Ralizah summed it up so nicely, it’s hard to go back to being hamstrung by TV only play after experiencing the freedom of the hybrid advantage, even if it means tolerating graphical disparities. Not to mention gyro, which is not an option on PS4/Xbox and it’s not an option on PC either for games that don’t come to Steam and/or aren’t designed to allow virtual mouse detection and controller input simultaenously (so the cross save of Immortals did me no good, because it’s not on Steam).

There are exceptions to this, of course. Some games take such a big downgrade that there is still value in playing on PC. Witcher 3 and Doom Eternal are good examples. Yet even then, that value doesn’t replace the desire to play on Switch, only supplement it. For Witcher 3, cross save allowed me to have my cake and eat it too. And Doom Eternal is a gameplay focused game I don’t mind playing through twice. But for the vast majority of games, there’s just no reason to play anywhere else. Why would I want to play Persona 5 Strikers on PC when I can get a version that looks 90% as good but functions as a console, handheld and portable console version via tabletop all in one? It just isn’t worthwhile playing games anywhere else unless A they simply don’t come to the system at all, or B take such a downgrade while docked that it’s preferable to only play in handheld mode, and use another system for tv play.

Most of the desire for Persona 5 to come to Switch is specifically because having games hybrid is awesome, and it’s hard to tolerate playing them any other way once your eyes have been opened. Even speaking personally, there’s a reason I haven’t gotten more than 10 hours into the game. And it’s not because it isn’t a good game. It’s because my interest falls off a cliff now anytime I try to play a game that’s not hybrid.

Usually I can get 5-10 hrs in. That’s not a problem, but by the time I get that far, a few days have passed, and since I can only bring my Switch with me to work, and can play Switch while I have Netflix on, etc, I end up playing a Switch game in between my time playing PC. And that game catches my interest and I start losing sight of the original game I was playing. Then I come home, and instead of firing up the PC, I just turn on my docked Switch and keep playing whatever I was playing earlier in the day at work. And before you know it it’s been months since I’ve touched that game on PC. I know I’ll never finish Persona unless it comes to Switch. And that’s why I wanted to come over. Plus JRPGs are just better on handheld. It’s why Persona 4 Golden was so good on Vita. But hybrid is even better than handheld. Because as good as it is, you’re not always in the mood. Sometimes you do just want to play on the tv in the leather recliner.

@TheFrenchiestFry Persona 5 Switch is about Joker in Smash. Same with the other times main games weren't playable on Nintendo systems but characters in Smash:

• Roy - FE Binding Blade playable on GBA and Wii U but exclusive to Japan (there's a good chance of the exclusivity ending this year)
• Lucas - Mother 3 playable on GBA and Wii U but exclusive to Japan
• Cloud - FFVII exclusive to Playstation when Cloud came to Smash (exclusivity ended with announcement in September 2018 and release in March 2019)

@WaveWitch You did exactly what @timleon says in the first part of his post that you're responding to - arbitrarily dismissing a big part of the library.
Which kind of proves his point....

@MarioLover92
Cool, that's awesome. It does look really good. I'm hoping it does well. I'd like to know more as well.

@WaveWitch
I'll try to find the article I was talking about. I've tried VR only a couple of times, and I thought it was really cool. I think that VR is a really neat concept, but it just seems to not be as big of a deal, as it was a few years ago. I found the article I was talking about: https://venturebeat.com/2018/01/24/gdc-nintendo-switch-develo...
It's like 3 years old at this point, but I feel like it gives a good picture of Switch vs VR development. 🤔
I also don't mind motion controls when they're done right as well. I thought the motion controls for ARMS were fine, but I also felt they were a little unresponsive at times. Yeah, I get that, moving around your character with the Joy-Cons did feel kind of weird.

Haha, that's a good point. That's the problem with motion controls sometimes (or just bizarre control setups) is it can make or break a game.
I know it's been on sale before, but I don't think it's ever been on sale that low before. (I could be wrong, though). 🤔

@Grumblevolcano Persona 5 Switch demand was definitely there long before Joker was confirmed for Smash. I recall it being very much rumored even during the days when people were speculating which games would be announced during the Switch Presentation shortly after its reveal, alongside games like FFXV and FFVII Remake. I remember Atlus' former PR manager actually had to step in and shut down the speculation himself on Twitter back in early 2017 ahead of the game's release. If anything Joker being in Smash actually resurrected its demand seeing as how for much of that audience it was the first time they were exposed to anything Persona or even Atlus-related

Also the reason Cloud was barred from having his game of origin playable on anything Nintendo related was largely due to the fact Sony had an agreement put in place with Square Enix back when they purchased stock in their company which basically meant they couldn't produce any mainline games for consoles that rivalled Sony's, nor could they port their existing catalog after Final Fantasy VI to other systems. That's why Square created an independent branch of their company to produce Crystal Chronicles and the GBA ports of I, II, IV, V and VI when they decided to rekindle their relationship with Nintendo. Unlike Joker there were actually legal restrictions in place that barred FFVII from appearing on anything that wasn't PlayStation and it wasn't just an exclusivity thing. This applied to VII through XII essentially

Cloud had appeared in other stuff on Nintendo by that point though so it's not like he was completely foreign to that area

With respect to the "no games" thing - I agree Xbox have suffered from this as well to some extent. I think the context around this is a bit different though - usually this is in comparison with the PS4 which, outside of exclusives, has a very similar library. And while Sony was hitting it out of the park with its first party titles, Microsoft had arguably reached a bit of a slump compared to the OG and 360 days. Switch on the other hand has quite a unique library.

And I agree that PSVita also unfairly got this treatment.

@TheFrenchiestFry As @jaxonH explained, portability gives people a reason to buy games that they already have access to. It's the reason people have double-dipped on games, and almost certainly the reason (beyond the massive Switch install base) that third parties are having much more success on the Switch than any previous Nintendo console.

With respect to Persona - having started the series with 4 Golden on the Vita, I just feel that this game works so well in a handheld. The social link / calendar system is great for short bursts of gameplay. Plus the games are so long that some people might struggle to find time to get through them otherwise.

@WaveWitch If you reread my post you'll see I never made this claim at all - I think that Switch has one of the best first party line ups, but not necessarily the best yet (I think that honour goes to the Wii U, due to its retro library and access to Wii titles). Most of Nintendo's noteworthy NES and SNES titles are available on the Switch, so I'm counting those. It also has arguably the best selection of Mario games of any console, and many games which are arguably the best in their series (Mario Kart 8 DX, Super Smash Bros Ultimate, Breath of the Wild, Mario Odyssey, Luigi's Mansion 3, Splatoon 2). It is, however, lacking in traditional 3D Zeldas and several noteworthy games and franchises - but there's time to fix that.

@timleon I don't think anyone is really arguing that portability gives people a reason to invest in a game on Switch vs. other systems. I acknowledge there is a convenience factor, but that doesn't really give the Switch a pass for how imbalanced its library feels a lot of the time

Like yeah it's cool I get to play stuff like Xenoblade and FFX in bed but I didn't buy the Switch because of the thought of playing games from 2 or 3 generations ago on a portable system. The games that made me buy a Switch were pretty much all the original content like Xenoblade 2, or SMT V, or Odyssey and so on and so forth. When the original content does come around, for the most part they hit it out of the park, but since 2018 I've been more glued onto playing my PS4 compared to my Switch for the simple reason that Sony has outdone both companies in terms of having high quality original games come out at a way faster rate with the same amount of effort put in.

Also for a lot of the ports themselves I've mostly skipped out on getting them on Switch because the compromises were way too great for me to even think about willingly trading all those caveats just for portability. I haven't gotten games like Outer Worlds on Switch because of that. I'm also getting Persona 5 Strikers on PC instead of Switch because the excessively jaggy aliasing and Sonic 06-level load times were way too distracting the first time that I can't willingly say "this was all worth it for a portable experience"

For me, the PS4 is by far the most... er... 'redundant' of the modern platforms I own. Early-to-mid last gen, it was the only place to be for a lot of big Japanese properties, and that gave it a ton of value as a platform. But that time has passed. Those games are almost all going to PC now. What's left are indies, AAA games, and exclusives. Indies come first to PC, but I prefer them on Switch: both are preferable indie platforms to PS4, IMO. AAA games usually run OK on PS4, but why play a compromised 30fps version of a game when my PC will run it better and both are stuck on the TV anyway?

That really only leaves exclusives. Now, Sony's exclusives have been getting a lot of praise, and if cinematic third-person action games are your bread-and-butter, I could see why you'd like the console, but they don't do a whole lot for me.

It all really just depends on what you want to play, and where. If you ignore 99% of the Switch's library, of course you're going to be underwhelmed by it. At that point, I have to question why someone would buy a whole-ass platform for the once-in-a-generation 3D Mario and Zelda games. It does have really good third party support compared to previous Nintendo consoles, though, and I also happen to enjoy most of its exclusive titles. The hybrid design of the device gives games on it a value and appeal that I don't get anywhere else, and that's also a big part of why I enjoy playing on the platform so much. Performance deficits on Switch ports are the price I pay for being able to play anywhere. There's no similar benefit to playing a non-exclusive game on a PS4.

VR is... interesting, but is still too expensive, and it really requires games that were made with VR in mind. You have a tiny number of games that are actually compelling in VR, like Astro Bot, RE7, and the like, and then a ton of smaller experiences that people buy to justify spending hundreds of dollars on specialized VR equipment.

As to the new/old games thing, I think it kind of reveals how shallow the rhetoric about "ports" is. As if games have less value because they released on a platform you don't play or own. Does it really matter if a game like Cuphead or Ori released on PC/Xbox One first if you don't play on those platforms? When Hollow Knight went to PS4, did people enjoy it less because it was months older than the Switch release?

It's inane, frankly, and speaks more to the unhealthiness of gaming culture than anything else.

And, frankly, unless you play every game on its target development platform, you're playing a "port" anyway.

I'd be willing to bet 1000 dollars that they're not releasing GCN mini. And tbh, I'm not sure they're doing more mini consoles at all.

@WaveWitch There's no way in... well you know, that they're going to release more mini consoles. That's a ridiculous notion. They did the big 2, and they're done.

GB / N64 / GBA / DS will just be utterly unavailable for this generation, before coming back slowly in future ones. At best, we'll probably get GB(C) emulation at some point before the end of the lifespan. GCN and Wii will never get official mass emulation, the games instead of being sold individually or in small packs a la 3D All-Stars.

For the record, a GCN mini that played the games well would need to be stronger than the Switch to emulate all the major 1st party titles that would be expected. (Particularly Paper Mario: TTYD and Metroid Prime 1&2 I don't think could run full speed on Switch emulated due to relying heavily on functions not available in modern GPUs)

I think Nintendo will add GBA to NSO once the notable NES and SNES games have been released. There's still a few ones left like Urban Champion, Golf, Pinball, Donkey Kong Jr. Math, the 2 Earthbound games and Super Mario RPG. The first 3 were in NES Remix Pack.

There's 3rd party games I could see come too like the rest of the Ninja Gaiden NES trilogy.

@link3710 id love a gameboy mini and im not so sure it won't happen. $100 for a bunch of games and something that can fit in my pocket not much different Than the Mario 35 game in watch makes more than a little sense..

I think GameCube's at that point where it can be considered retro enough to be given similar treatment via either an online service add on or a new Mini console but yeah not holding my breath for something like Wii or DS anytime soon

Plus there are a ton of GameCube games I'd love to see given a second chance whether it be on NSO or on a new Mini console since I still think it has the strongest software lineup of any Nintendo home console