TBH there's a difference between being able to play a game without playing its predecessor, and it being desirable. I personally don't see why anyone would want to fork out £55 for Persona 5 Strikers if they're not familiar with the base game's characters or story. Some might - but it's a massive barrier for entry.
The point is that the main audience for this game is fans of Persona 5. And they, almost by necessity (remembering the PS3 version exists), already have access to the PS4. So Switch and Steam will be at a natural disadvantage.
Considering you can play FF VII - XII on Switch after like 20 years of no mainline FF game after VI being on Nintendo ever, I feel like Atlus will pull something similar someday. But that day is not today.
Like maybe Switch will get the first 2 Personas, but considering Persona 1 was on the PS Classic (as much of a botched thing that was), I have my doubts even that will happen.
Also, open question to everyone: why does this "I can't play sequels without playing previous games in the series" thing not apply to The Witcher 3? That game is so interconnected with previous games in that series that it constantly drops references to older characters, storylines, plot events, etc. yet I don't hear constant whining about the older Witcher games not being on Switch.
It’s a fair question. Plenty of games with actual overarching plot lines release and no one has an issue with them. The thing is, IF this game actually was a singular entry in a 3 game plotline like The Witcher 3 or Mass Effect or something, at least then I could understand it. But it’s not. It was never designed to be some overarching plot. There was one game, Persona 5, and like Persona 4, it was open and shut. The game’s story is complete. It’s done. Finito. Persona 5 Strikers is just tacked on spin-off set in the same world with same characters. But it’s a completely separate story. It doesn’t depend on previous knowledge.
But the fact that games which actually do have overarching plots across multiple games get bought all the time, and this game that doesn’t have overarching plot gets written off as if it did (despite the fact it doesn’t and even if it did, that didn’t stop people with other games) really confuses me.
There’s a huge difference between being a singular entry in an overarching plot (Trails of Cold Steel 3- and even that had a story recap in the menu so new players could jump in), and simply being a new entry in the same universe with the same characters. When it happens in the timeline is irrelevant. Yes, it happens “after the events of P5”, but that doesn’t mean its dependent on those events. They’re separate. Games which rely on foreknowledge always have recaps, either in the menu or in game where you make important decisions from previous games before you start. This game doesn’t have a recap because it doesn’t need one. If having previous knowledge mattered, they’d give us a recap.
It’s like an episode of the Simpsons. Each episode occurs after the events of the previous episode. It has the same characters as the previous episode. But you don’t need to see the previous episode to enjoy the current one. Same thing here. Yes, it has the same characters, and yes, it happens “after the first”. But that doesn’t really mean squat. It’s not like the first game ended on a cliffhanger- that story line is wrapped up and concluded with a big fat red bow on top. This is now a separate story with separate events.
So it’s only a “continuation of the story” inasmuch that it’s the same characters in the timeline. But that doesn’t mean it has any pertinent connection to Persona 5. Anyone who has played that game knows full well the story is concluded with that game. It’s not some over arching plot with multiple entries. This is not a prequel that gives backstory. This is a brand new story invented out of thin air that they shoehorned in to the timeline for the sake of being able to say “it happens after the events of P5”, when in reality, all that ACTUALLY means is they can use summer break as the setting and use the same characters. That’s it. This isn’t Lord of the Rings.
Saying you need to already be familiar doesn’t make sense, because how do people get familiar? By playing a game in the franchise. People can “get familiar” with this game and then play Persona 5 after they’re into the series just as much as they could “get familiar” with Persona 5 and then play this game. Especially since it’s structured like a main game.
Anyone can understand who Joker is by playing Persona 5 Strikers. The context of playing the game will make it perfectly evident who he is and who everyone else is. It has its own story. How much does one really need to know? Here’s these characters, play the game and you’ll get to know them better (thats how people got to know them in Persona 5, and people can get to know them the same way here). You travel into shadow worlds, that much is on the back of the box. And P5S will present its own story with a detective from Tokyo asking you and your friends to do something, setting in motion the events of the game. Like... what more do you need to know.
All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans
God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John
@JaxonH Again, it's not about being able to play and enjoy Strikers without P5, my point is about desirability and appeal.
I'm sure someone could pick up Strikers without playing P5 and enjoy it. But why would they pick it up in the first place? How many people picked up Hyrule Warriors having never played a Zelda game? How many picked up Fire Emblem Warriors having never played Fire Emblem? Unless you already have a desire to get into the Persona franchise, or are otherwise mad into musou games, why would you pick up a Persona musou spin-off? And even if P5S is considered a gateway to the rest of the series...Switch owners are locked out of the series if they do not own a Playstation anyway.
I very much disagree that it's like The Simpsons. The Simpsons as a sitcom is very character-driven, yes, but episodes are generally designed to have little continuity and character development so that you can step in and out at any point. The story of P5S may well stand on its own, but a key driver of the Persona series is developing your relationships with the characters. I'm sure P5S will do this well, but a newcomer will always miss the origin story of these characters.
I don't think you need to be familiar with P5, but it certainly would help.
So, how many people had played Witcher 1, which is only on PC & only works with kb/m input? Or even 2, which was on PC & XBox 360? Quite a few who got Witcher 3 on PS4 hadn't played the series before that! I'm sure plenty who got Switch version hadn't played either of the others
@timleon
Hyrule Warriors (the first) was just a Warriors game with Zelda skins. There wasn’t much there for someone who wasn’t a fan of Zelda or a fan of Warriors games. The second was filling backstory to BotW, which caters towards breath of the wild fans specifically.
Persona 5 Strikers falls into neither of those categories. It’s not just a Warriors game with Persona skins. Neither is it filling in some crucial backstory. It’s actually structured like a Persona game, so it caters towards BOTH those who have played Persona, but also those who are interested in experiencing a Persona game (which judging by comments, is a large percentage of the Switch fanbase, or at least, so they claim).
Even if switch only gamers are locked out of other games in the series, it doesn’t negate the amazing experience they’ll have with this particular game. Saying “if I can’t enjoy every game in the series I’m not going to enjoy any game in the series“ isn’t a logical strategy. How many people skipped breath of the wild because they were “locked out” of every other Zelda game ever made? Again, these are artificial constructions only being applied to this particular game and not to any other.
Of course a newcomer to P5S would miss the origin story of these characters. But this goes right back to the argument of, “if I can’t play every game in a series, I don’t want to play any game in the series“ which is absolutely ludicrous. Play and enjoy what you can now, and if another game comes along down the line, then enjoy that one at that time. It’s almost like saying, “if I don’t win the lottery, I don’t even want my job or house! I’ll sleep on the streets!” That doesn’t make any sense. Enjoy your house and job that you have, and IF something else comes along, enjoy that too. But don’t let the absence of some other thing take away from the enjoyment of this thing now. Experiencing the “origin of the characters” isn’t required to enjoy a game with said characters. It’s awesome if you do experience it, and I would encourage anyone who is able to do so- not because it’s particularly relevant with Strikers, but because it’s just a good game in its own right, but if you can’t, that’s by no means a reason to deprive yourself of this amazing game.
You don’t see PC gamers using such a rationale to not play P5S. Neither do you see Switch gamers rationalizing to not play other games like Witcher 3. Yet for some reason, when it comes to this particular game on this particular platform, all of a sudden people are rummaging through the excuse box to justify ignoring it. Which almost makes me think people never actually cared about the franchise in the first place, and just wanted bragging rights of having it on their platform, without any real intentions of actually engaging with and playing the series.
All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans
God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John
@JaxonH I think these are false equivalencies. Let's not forget that P5S is a spin-off. Playing Breath of the Wild without playing other Zelda games is more akin to playing Persona 5 without Persona 4. Playing P5S without playing Persona 5 is akin to playing Age of Calamity without Breath of the Wild - the former of which, as you outline, is catered specifically to fans of the latter.
Also I think The Witcher 3 is (i) exceptional because it was a game of massive critical acclaim, considered one of the best games of its generation so many were willing to overlook that they'd not played the first two games, (ii) not so relevant here because it's not a spin-off, and rather an evolution on the existing gameplay of previous Witcher games.
To be honest, I don't think it's impossible for someone to enjoy P5S without playing Persona 5, or for a newcomer to use it as a gateway to the Persona series. My point is more that by releasing P5S without P5 on the Switch, Atlus really aren't doing themselves or potential fans a favour and they shouldn't be surprised if the Switch release of P5S does poorly.
@BruceCM Thanks for pointing out the irony in this conversation
I've honestly not played any SMT but I think it's probably safe to say that Persona has come into it's own over the years. They've even dropped "SMT" from the title.
@timleon
I agree Atlus would be better served by releasing P5 on Switch, but my point is that their decision not to shouldn’t really have much effect on this game, just as it’s not really having much effect on PC.
All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans
God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John
I thought it was obvious that Persona 5 Strikers would flop on the Switch because Persona 5 didn't come to Switch but also Age of Calamity is a factor. Both Age of Calamity and Persona 5 Strikers are Warriors games releasing 3 months apart with Age of Calamity marketed as a BotW prequel and Persona 5 Strikers marketed as a Persona 5 sequel. Switch owners are much more likely to pick up Age of Calamity because they've played BotW but not Persona 5.
PC is probably less affected as PC players are more likely to also have a PS4 given it was only recently that Sony started putting their exclusives on PC.
Honestly, I personally would've rather had a mainline come over first, even if its an older title to see what the series is like first. I'll probably hold off on 5S for a while or until there's a sale. I'm more into 3d world, bravely default II, MH rise, ghosts and goblins resurrection..not to mention I've still yet to grab copies of doom eternal, and more importantly, fenyx rising and AoC. The latter two most important before the rest. So persona 5S can wait until I'm thru those.
@Grumblevolcano I agree with the potential for musou weariness in light of Age of Calamity (the thought has occurred to me as well), but I'm curious why you think PC gamers would be more likely to have Playstation consoles? If anything, I'd think the opposite is true: hardcore PC gamers have access to the vast, vast majority of AAA titles on the market, whereas Nintendo-only owners, I think, are used to having to buy a secondary console to play all of the non-Nintendo stuff they want. That has changed a bit with the Switch, but you still need a PC or power console to play the majority of AAA releases on the market. And especially now with Sony releasing some of their AAA releases on PC, there's very little incentive for PC gamers to buy consoles. If anything, the PC gamers I've known really only bought Nintendo handhelds and played everything else on their rigs.
@Ralizah If I'm to get into the other SMT games, I suppose that's where I'll start. Although I do wonder if I'll be as into SMT as I am Persona - tbh I think the life sim aspect is a large part of what draws me in. But I do like JRPGs more generally so they're definitely on my radar.
@Ralizah I was on about the window before Sony started putting their exclusives on PC, there was a 2 year gap between Persona 5 release and that happening. Exclusives used to be a big reason to get PS/Xbox but nowadays if you play on PC you may as well just have PC and Switch with Xbox exclusives on PC and Sony exclusives being a case of if you wait long enough there'll be a PC port.
While Persona 5 Strikers is more of a Persona game with Warriors-style real time combat for encounters rather than turn based encounters, there could still be fatigue from Hyrule Warriors overlap. That said, if I had to pick one or the other to play, I’d pick Persona 5 Strikers. Simply because HW is still a Warriors game at its core. It’s set in the Zelda BotW universe and focuses on backstory, but it’s still a Warriors game. P5S bares little resemblance to Warriors style games. It does not follow the mousou (can never spell that right) formula.
But... ya, there’s tons of great games coming out in a one month window from mid February to late March.
February
Persona 5 Strikers
Bravely Default 2
Super Mario 3D World + Bowser’s Fury March
Monster Hunter Rise
All of them hype, all of them worth picking up. But as soon as Monster Hunter Rise drops, it’s a wrap. Everything else goes immediately into backlog. I’ve never been this excited for a video game in my entire life. The hype is so real I must have watched that Game Awards trailer 30 times now.
All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans
God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John
Thinking about it, there's a better explanation for why Persona 5 Strikers is doing fine on PC. While they don't have Persona 5 yet, they do have main series Persona in the form of Persona 4 Golden so it's very likely other main series Persona games make the jump to PC as part of the Persona 25th anniversary celebrations.
Looks like the Monster Hunter Rise hype cycle has officially begun.
They hit us with a gorgeous new trailer, announced a demo, and now they’re starting to showcase the different weapon types.
Dual Blades
Bow
All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans
God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John
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