Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

@Ralizah
Perhaps, but there are lists that show which leakers are credible and which ones aren’t, as they document every single leak and whether it panned out to be true or not. Most of the leaks that never panned out were from people like Marcus Sellers, Gaming Intel, Vandal Leaks or Vergeben. Which, over time, people learned to not trust anything from them. Credibility is everything. Emily Rogers and King Zell were spot on 90% of the time, and even with that 10% it’s all things that are still likely true but just got delayed. So you can’t look at everything as a whole, you have to filter who to trust and who not to trust. And you trust people who are proven correct (like claiming Paper Mario is coming this year, for example).

So to someone who doesn’t follow leaks it’s going to appear like there are a lot of wrong leaks. And there are. If you narrow them to sources that have proven themselves over time, the vast majority of them pan out, and another 10% are true but simply haven’t released yet, but in time will also be proven true (see Pikmin 3 leak, which is now being reaffirmed as coming soon).

Once you learn to discern between credible sources and unreliable ones, you discover that the vast majority of those leaks can basically be taken as fact. So I completely understand for someone who doesn’t look into this stuff it might seem like there’s a lot of wrong leaks, as they just ramble off every wrong leak ever made, but for anyone in the know, it’s much more clear cut.

As for Metroid Prime Trilogy, never in the history of leaks, to my knowledge, has more credible people stood together and all said “this definitely exists”. But as we all know, the Metroid Prime 4 delay was likely the reason for the delay. I think we’ll see it eventually, closer to the release of Metroid Prime 4. And if a 2D Metroid does come in the next year, it may even release after that in 2022, with a Prime 4 release 6-12 months later.

The level of caution should be proportional to the level of doubt. When some no-name leaked says a game is coming, there’s a good bit of doubt and thus we should approach with a good bit of caution. But when someone who has proven themselves credible leaks a game, and multiple sites which have also proven themselves credible reconfirm and say they’ve heard the same thing, There’s very little doubt, and thus, very little caution is needed. Not saying we should have no caution, but not nearly as much as some random 4chan leak from an unknown source that hasn’t been confirmed by anyone else.

With one of the headline stories just now I was reminded of a couple Harvest Moon/Story of Seasons games coming out summer/fall that look at least decent (Mineral Town) ranging to promising (actual Harvest Moon promising back to basics).

Those and Paper Mario make me a lot happier with the lineup in the next few months. And I'm sure I'll pick up Star Wars Pod Racer just for little bouts of playtime.

@link3710
I mean, the Mario games are ports, too.

But no, not every game has had leaks. Not even close. Not for Switch, anyways. Can’t speak for other platforms. It might seem like that to someone who doesn’t actually follow this stuff but I do and if you look at the official list of leaks and which ones pan out, you’ll see that’s not the case. Rumors come from all sorts of places but leaks are not the same as rumors. Especially when you filter down to credible leaks.

Sure, Every game imaginable is probably mentioned by some random nobody on Twitter. But you don’t listen to every random nobody, you want to specifically listen to people who have proven themselves credible before. And when you only give credence to leaks coming from sources who have proven credible at least once before, all that other nonsense falls by the wayside.

If this was a 4chan leak and nobody else was confirming, Id say the same thing you are now. But that’s not the case. It’s coming from a credible source who has been right before which means they do have information and it’s being re-confirmed by major sites who are confidently stating yes this is true. How many leaks of that caliber have not panned out? Very few.

That said, it’s not the content of the leak that matters. It’s the source behind it. Listen to people who have been right before. Contrary to popular opinion you can’t just “guess” this stuff. The probability of guessing and getting it correct is small enough that you would have to be incorrect a lot more. People who do that get exposed as frauds who are always wrong (Marcus Sellers, Vandal Leaks, Gaming Intel, etc).

And context is key. Diablo was late very shortly before its announcement. People head moved on and written it off. The social media post was deemed “not a tease for Switch” by virtually everyone. Sure there were still a few people who thought it was possible but by and large people had moved on. Then, a leak came forward that said the game was coming, and not a month later it was announced. That’s not just some random stab in the dark, that’s a legitimate leak.

You can’t just go listening to every leak you hear on the Internet. Of course it’s going to seem like it’s just guessing and tons of stuff is wrong because you’re listening to everything the entire world is throwing out there. You have to actually investigate and vet the information. Vet the source. Actually research whether they’ve been right before or if they’re just some random person who is guessing who got 100 different things wrong before. Nobody can get over 50% of their leaks correct by guessing. Can’t happen. Anyone who gets more right than wrong clearly has information so why would you not listen to someone who has proven themselves to have information?

If someone says “Paper Mario is coming this year”. And has never been wrong in the past just guessing random stuff, and then Paper Mario is announced, why would you not listen to what they have to say? Especially if big sites who also have a track record come forward and say ya, this is happening. We’ve talked to our sources and they’ve confirmed. Why would you not give that any credibility?

There’s a difference between believing every single leak put out there and believing the leaks that come from credible sources that are confirmed among multiple credible sources. And I’m not even saying you should 100% believe it. But assigning a probability of “less than 1%” given the sources were dead on correct before, is not logical.

@JaxonH And yet I heard this same speech on Metroid Prime Trilogy and Star Fox Racing... Still not buying them bringing back the 3D Mario games, it goes against Nintendo's fundemental handling of the Mario series.

Meanwhile, no one at all even believed the Pokemon Let's Go leak since it was a random 4chan post. If you're going to claim that your list is about credible leaks, I don't see how one's like that are on it. Plus, just because person A has a reliable source at Company B, doesn't mean they instantly should be trustworthy for games from Company C. How many of those trustworthy leaks were from games from Nintendo proper? Even Paper Mario is from IS, and LA was Grezzo.

@link3710
And Metroid Prime Trilogy will prove itself in time, of that I am confident. Unlike Metroid Prime Trilogy though, Mario Collection isn’t propping up the major return of a franchise that just got delayed. Do you see the difference there? Prime 4 got delayed. It makes sense the trilogy would be held back. That’s not the case with Mario.

Star Fox Racing, again. A Liam Robertson leak. And he got a string of stuff wrong at the time. But you can’t just use that to disregard every single credible week going forward. That’s not logical either. Maybe let it cast an extra 10% doubt, that I could understand, but it’s the nature of the business that not everything leaked will pan out. It’s not an exact science. It doesn’t mean you let one wrong leak determine your entire outlook on every single game leaked going forward (and again, we don’t know it’s wrong, it’s very likely could be retros canceled game).

More importantly, if THE SOURCE for the Star Fox leak was THIS source, then I would agree. Then I would say yep, this source was wrong before or at least apparently wrong, so we can therefore not trust them. It’s not the same source though. How can you hold the actions of one person to determine the credibility of another? That doesn’t make sense.

And these people don’t need a source of each and every company they only need a source at Nintendo where they plan to release lineups and test and localize all the games from all the companies

I also don’t believe releasing previous Mario games “goes against their fundamental handling of the series”. That doesn’t make sense to me. At all. As if there’s some written rule that says Nintendo will never ever ever ever ever package up Mario games to sell. What?.

@JaxonH Time and time again, Nintendo has stated they're only interested in moving forward with Mario, not looking back. Previous interview questions on the matter have always stated that they do not plan on returning to old Mario titles since that won't help the series move forward. The sole exception made for that in the modern era is Super Mario 64 DS which was done for the same purpose as the original: to help the transition into 3D game design. And even that game is so changed from the original that it'd be unfair to call it less than a sequel of sorts.

@link3710
I’d hardly take that as proof that they have a contract written in stone that forbids them from ever releasing previous games, especially to celebrate the series. They do it for a Zelda all the time. And opinions and feelings change over time. Clearly. There are plenty of things Nintendo said they would never do that they now do (we’ll never release games on mobile!). A single celebratory 35th anniversary collection is not out of the realm of possibility. And it’s not like they’ve ever come out and said “we’ll never release previous Mario games on a new system”. In fact, they’ve already done it.

They released Mario 1, 2, 3 and World on Switch. Those are old Mario titles... why would the others be any different? They released Galaxy on the Nvidia Shield in China also. They released Mario 64 on the DS, the Wii and the Wii U. They ported New Super Mario Bros U to Switch. Yet we are to believe the Switch is only out of bounds just for 3 specific Mario games? Especially given a year to celebrate Mario? Even after 5 different sources confirm it (VGC, VentureBeat, Eurogamer, GamesBeat, Gematsu) and after they nail the first part correctly with Paper Mario?

Come on.

@Knighty_IX Haha, I think we've all gotten caught up in bogus leak excitement at some point.

One of the fun things over time has been how often "leaks" about an upcoming game are less imaginative or weird than what we actually get. Like, there were lots of "leaks" about Fire Emblem on Switch, and a lot of them sounded credible, but not one that I read went, "oh yeah, the next Fire Emblem game is basically going to be medieval Persona."

I've tired of the cycle as well. If it comes? Cool. If it doesn't? Also cool. Contrary to what Jax might think, I've actually ascribed enough credence to the 3D Mario rumor that I'll leave some money set aside in case it's revealed this year. But if I've learned one thing as a Nintendo fan, it's to not expect the expected. So I'm just going to wait and see what surfaces.

@Ralizah
That’s a reasonable approach. I don’t think everyone should just take it at face value 100% confirmed, But I do think it’s irresponsible to completely write it off, especially given five different sources from major news outlets and part of the leak already confirmed as true. It’s not the “I don’t fully believe it” that gets me, but the “I refuse to give it any credence whatsoever, no matter what”.

In any case, Paper Mario The Origami King looks dope. My brother is the one who first turned me on to Paper Mario. Back in the day when I used to watch him binge on GameCube (how I first learned of Metroid Prime and Zelda Windwaker), he would always tell me how good Paper Mario was. He was a mega fan. And I remember he was so excited when Sticker Star released. Ultimately he didn’t like it very much, at least, he said some parts were really good and fun but he hated the battle system. And I don’t think he even bothered buying Color Splash.

But when I texted him the announcement for this game, his response was “Heck ya I’m in there so fast! It has 1000 year door epicness going on. Day 1.” Which tells me if it can make my brother a believer, it’s time to get hyped. Nobody knows this series better than he does I think. At least, nobody that I know anyways.

The more I watch the trailer the better it looks. I’m not really sold on the thousand folding arms move. Looks kind of lame. I much rather prefer the paper airplane of TTYD. But it’s fine. As long as the game has epic scale and great writing and characters that ooze charm, Im in. And who knows. Maybe the 1000 folding arms thing will actually be fun and used well.

@JaxonH There's a huge difference between emulation (how Galaxy and the older games run on modern software.) and revisiting a game to properly port it. They specifically were talking about porting. Now, if we get emulated versions of 64, Sunshine, Galaxy 1&2 with no enhancements, that I might just bite on. But there's no way they're going to go back and properly port them to modern consoles. If they do, they'd make a new game out of them, a la Super Mario Deluxe or Super Mario 64 DS.

Also, Nintendo literally doesn't care about anniversaries. We've had what, 2 birthday celebrations from internal Nintendo series in the history of the company (Mario 25 and Zelda 25)? If this was the 50th I'd bite, but it's 35. Not a number worth celebrating. If this was Kirby, Xenoblade, Fire Emblem, etc I might bite, but not Mario.

EDIT: And to be clear, I can and have believed in rumors that were sensible before. This one is clearly either a bald-faced lie or leaker bait though, and I'm not going to give it the time of day.

@link3710
How would a 3D collection of some sorts be against their "fundamental" Mario philosophy? Didn't they re-release Mario 64 on the DS? Didn't they do Mario All Stars back on the SNES and then more recently on the Wii?

Edit: Also, I didn't think these were going to be remasters, I thought they were just going to be ports on one cartridge/download. Maybe some texture sprucing at the absolute most.

@link3710
Bald faced lie? From 5 different credible sources? And part of it already being proven correct with Paper Mario? I don’t know how you came to such perceptions, but when this game gets announced I hope you reevaluate, I really do.

And now you’re just talking about how much work it takes. They already brought Super Mario Galaxy to the Nvidia Shield. This is what they do- make and port games. The amount of work needed to port these games is far, far, far less than making a new game, which they’ve been doing for 30 years.

And you can’t can’t say they “don’t care about anniversaries” when we have Mario All Stars on Wii, an anniversary game. Even a Kirby Dream Collection on Wii, an anniversary game. They don’t happen all the time but they do happen. It’s not like they’re building a castle here or launching a rocket into space for the 35th, it’s just a collection of previous games. They could’ve done this even without an anniversary. The fact it coincides is just icing on the cake.

Nearly all leakers depend on a source. It stands to reason that, to protect themselves, the source will feed the leaker some iffy/wrong information as a smoke screen.

The fact Paper Mario was announced, thus confirming the leak, kinda trounces on that kind of speculation though. And... that is just speculation. There’s no evidence to suggest the information was false. On the contrary, evidence suggests it’s true.

@JaxonH The Origami King certainly LOOKS like an improvement on the disappointing efforts preceding it, but I also know that Nintendo can cut a trailer to make pretty much anything look exciting.

If it does end up being good, I hope people give it the time of day, even thought it likely isn't an RPG (there are now more non-RPG than RPG Paper Mario games, so it's fair to say this was a fairly permanent shift for the franchise). I just want good writing and gameplay. Charm isn't enough.

@Ralizah
No, of course charm alone isn’t enough. But it’s great to see, and it’s an integral part of the game. You pretty much said it- fun gameplay and good writing (and I would add, lovable characters). As long as that’s the case this is going to be an instant classic.

@JaxonH Kirby is by HAL. Hal celebrates anniversaries. I specifically stated internal games, because series by HAL, IS, Monolith etc do celebrate anniversaries. And I also specifically mentioned they'd celebrated both Mario and Zelda's 25th anniversaries. But that's it, and the 35th is not a major number in anyone's book. They'll probably mention anniversaries again when it's the 50th, or maybe even the 40th, but not before that.

And no, they didn't bring it to the Shield. It's running via emulation. Nintendo's never had an issue with emulating it's back catalog. But these are specifically remasters. And Nintendo has always stated as being against remastering anything from the Mario series, for reasons that actually mostly make sense.

And you say it's 5 different sources, but they're probably all talking to one single person. Just because 5 news sites commented on it doesn't mean there's 5 different people telling that story. All it takes is one person to say something and have others bite and it'll spread like wildfire.

@rallydefault I'm talking about the policy they've espoused in interviews since the GameCube days as to why they no longer do remasters of old Mario titles. And yes they released an emulated version of All-Stars, and again Super Mario 64 DS was more of a sequel than a port. Have you played it? 3 new characters (including Wario making his playable debut in the main series), every existing level was reworked, with close to half the stars being new goals, things removed and added, new worlds. It certainly wasn't just treading on old ground.

@link3710
No no no. “Remaster” be interpreted in a lot of different ways, The only thing we know is that the games are coming and they’ll obviously output in HD. How they achieve that is up for debate, personally I don’t really care if they’re secretly running it on an emulator in the background or if it’s running natively. As long as the game is running on the system the rest is inconsequential.

And given they Remastered Mario 1, 2 and 3 for SNES, Remastered Mario 64 for DS, and they just Remastered New Super Mario Bros U Deluxe for Switch just this year, I think any rationale that says they “won’t remaster Mario games“ has gone right out the window. That’ll be even more clear when 3D World gets announced.

And maybe some of them share sources but I very seriously doubt five different sites all have the exact same source. Otherwise they would’ve all come out with it at the same time. They didn’t. Only after inquiring from their sources was it confirmed that ya, it’s happening.

The collections Nintendo have released so far:

• Super Mario All-Stars (1993) - SMB, SMB2, SMB3, Lost Levels
• Super Mario All-Stars + Super Mario World (1994) - Same as the original collection but with Super Mario World
• The Legend of Zelda Collector's Edition (2003) - TLoZ, Zelda II, OoT, MM
• Metroid Prime Trilogy (2009) - MP1, MP2, MP3
• Super Mario All-Stars (2010) - The SNES game brought to Wii as if it was a Virtual Console game in physical form
• Kirby Dream Collection (2012) - Dream Land, Adventure, Dream Land 2, Super Star, Dream Land 3, 64

Feel free to correct me if I've missed any, these are the only ones I remember.