Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

@KirbyTheVampire Not sure if we know yet, but honestly I don't see it getting more expensive than $10 digitally. Physical might be different, but PS4/Vita was also more expensive with that physical package while keeping $10.

Honestly though? I like Undertale quite a bit, but it's not a game I'd ever replay because the story is fairly shallow after the glamor of the first playthroughs, and the gameplay is kinda iffy. It's a great experience, but as a game I think there are better ways to spend $10. So even disregarding price and Steam sales, I would not get Undertale on the Switch because it's not a game I'd ever want to replay, and I love my portable games to ooze replayability.

@EvilLucario
So why does everyone love Undertale so much then? (Genuinely curious) I haven't played it but might try it out when it comes out on Switch.

@Alber-san Undertale has a pretty damn engaging narrative within the game that twists a lot of gamey/morality concepts on its head... sort of. While most fans love how cool all that stuff can be and how it can deconstruct a lot of standard game tropes, I personally see it as surface-level deconstruction that can feel pretentious and up its own ass at times if you take a step back.

The characters are also pretty cool and you can definitely get attached to them. I like them all.

Gameplay? It's fine, but it's nothing groundbreaking. It half-asses RPG mechanics and Mario and Luigi reaction combat into one slap-dash combat system and it's not really "fun". Pretty much 80% of combat is a bullet hell, but there are only a few bosses that really make that interesting on the normal routes. The "other" route is plagued with grinding just to get to the fun stuff while the game wants you to feel bad on purpose, which I just can't buy.

Ultimately, I just see Undertale as something that just blew up far too much for its own good. This isn't the game's fault at all, but the fanbase can also be unbearably annoying (thankfully toned down a lot in recent years) and they can overhype far too much about the games. Admittedly other fanbases can also be guilty of overhyping as well, but Undertale's fanbase can take it a step further.

However, I still think Undertale is something everyone should try for themselves. Just don't expect the second coming of EarthBound or something like that, at least imo. Maybe you'll really enjoy it for yourself. I did at first, but it's not something I want to revisit at all.

It's the 2010s western indie answer to Earthbound.

...there are more normal answers to this question, but I don't think anything could better describe Undertale's appeal tbh.

@Alber-san The story is well written, especially by video game standards. Plenty of foreshadowing, proper thematics, gameplay and graphics complement the story rather well. The gameplay is fun, and basically every fight is a unique combination of a puzzle and a bullet hell. Plot twists are well done, especially if you go in unspoiled.

The problem is that as the game is in a way, a puzzle game. As such, it's not really anywhere near as fun once you've figured out all the solutions, both in gameplay and in story. It's really designed to be a one (or two) and done game. Though there is... other stuff to keep people going, most people will only do two or three runs of it at the most. I highly recommend doing a playthrough of it to get the true ending (I'd say around 6-8 hours to do so), but as EvilLucario said, no point playing past there.

Anyways, even with the fact that I have no interest in replaying it ever again, it still remains one of my favorite games for the experience of the first time, so I do heartily recommend it, and going in blind.

I never understood the complaints about replayability. JRPGs are pretty low in terms of being worth replaying, so if anything Undertale is above the norm. :V

@kkslider5552000 Honestly, that's true. The only JRPG I regularly replay is Chrono Trigger. Have to have beaten that like, 12 times now.

@kkslider5552000 Undertale is also extremely short for RPG standards, and the RPG mechanics are also pretty half-assed. Levels and gear also mean pretty much nothing. Even if you're trying to kill Undyne with your stick at level 1 (which is the hardest thing you can ever do without going "that" route), it's still pretty easy. The story is really the only thing that can prop it up, which is neat at first but the gameplay side of things is very lacking.

As for replayability in RPGs, when I think back to my favorite RPGs like Pokemon and Xenoblade, a lot of the fun is experimentation in how you approach battles on second playthroughs. Pokemon may be extremely easy as a base game, but there are self-imposed challenges and there is a wealth of Pokemon available to use so you never have to use the same ones every playthrough. In Xenoblade, there's always different setups, different Arts, different skills to get to mix up how you play. In Final Fantasy VI, the Esper system lets me mess around with character builds. I don't want to use Edgar as a Tools-only guy, I'll pump magic stats into him so he can function that way too, etc etc. In Golden Sun, different Dijins equipped to different characters give them different classes, so that really mixes up the playstyles if you want to experiment.

In Undertale, you figure out the enemies' puzzles, or you hit them over and over with JUST normal attacks, or you just run away from everything except bosses and walk to the end. Even EarthBound has more variation in their combat, and that game is extremely simplistic too.

@EvilLucario @link3710
Thanks for the answers! It's nice to see different points of view. So according to both of you I really should buy it, tho I'll have to decide if the price is worth it without replayability. I really like combat-puzzle games so I suppose I'll like it.

As for the story I don't usually care much about it in games unless it involves morality and hard decisions so I'll like it too.

@kkslider5552000
Haven't played Earthbound although everyone seems desperate for a new one so it does explain its popularity.

@Alber-san Yeah pretty much. I don't hate Undertale at all and I actually do think the first few playthroughs are fantastic. But when you peel back everything and take a step back, it starts falling apart for me.

That's just how I see it though. More often than not, if you ask someone what they think of Undertale they're going to like/love it more than they hate it, and half of the time the hate is more because of the fanbase. Give it a good shot, you may be entranced.

I mean, I guess that's true enough but that doesn't matter as much because it's a shorter game. And I didn't think the game was that easy on my Pacifist Run? It wasn't super tough either but it was more difficult than...the majority of Nintendo games at the very least.

I really don't play JRPGs for multiple runs in the first place. Like different strategies for similar scenarios for the sake of it is not interesting when I could play a wider variety of games instead. And even if I did, it would be for a different type of game. A lot of JRPGs just involve getting good at a few basic strategies and you can very easily win that way. And beyond that, I don't tend to play them for the combat. It's usually good enough for a single playthrough but it takes something really well done in terms of combat for me to actively want to play an RPG again. For some of them, it's honestly not much different from Ace Attorney for all I care about their "gameplay mechanics".

@Alber-san Earthbound is a classic well worth picking up on the VC. An interesting take on the RPG genre, great characters and story and well drawn world.

Quick list: -

Mario Tennis
Crash Bandicoot
Wolfenstein 2
Lumines
Valkyria Chronicles 4
Okami

POSSIBLES: -
Octopath
TWEWY HD
Travis Strikes Again
Starlink
Team Sonic Racing
Smash Bros
Hyper Light Drifter
Undertale

I just beat Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze with every KONG letter, puzzle piece, all K levels and the extra world.

Only one figurine I haven't gotten out of the bubble gum machine, and just spent my last banana coins getting the final few.

Gonna start back over at World 1 and get gold medals on every stage in the game. Not concerned with hard mode. It's just frustrating tbh. Time trials are where the real fun is at.

Oh okay, thanks! I might just get it on PC either way, since I only have a 64 GB card in my Switch. Not that I've bought a single digital game so far anyway, but still.

@JaxonH
Very nice. I don't have the patience to learn the routes and timings for the time trials.

@rallydefault
Ya know, I'm no speedrunner, and for the reasons you mentioned. But DKC Tropical Freeze is different. You can start a stage for time trials and just do your best and see how fast you can get through it, and chances are you'll probably land a bronze your first try. Maybe even silver. And once you do that, you kind of realize it's not some super elite achievement that only the most dedicated of players who religiously study the stages can attain. You realize this is well within your grasp and it's a lot of fun trying to get a better time.

What's important is to not set an unrealistic standard. Just do a time trial and see how fast you can run it, mistakes and all. And then give it another go or two, and you'll probably hit a gold medal run by your second or third attempt. Now, if you want to actually compete on the leaderboard's then you're going to have to restart when you make mistakes and try, try again. Maybe watch some video replays of the number one time spot on the leaderboard and see how they did it and what short cuts they used, etc. but if you are just running time trials for fun, you don't need to do any of that. Just enjoy it and see how fast you can make it through. Don't have to use the fastest route and have a perfect flawless run. Just do your best and see how it pans out.

That's how it started for me , and I realized it was just so incredibly fun and addictive that I suddenly found myself wanting to try to compete on the leaderboards, wanting to learn the fastest routes. I don't think I'm going to dive that deep into it this time around- I think I'm content just going for gold medals. And whenever I get my fastest time on a stage I always upload it to the leaderboards. Even if I am only the 500th in the world, friends can still view it on the leaderboards. Friends can still watch your replay.

So it becomes this really cool thing where anyone on your friends list who is playing the game can see how well you did on a stage, and then maybe they try to beat your time. And maybe you check back a few weeks later and you see that your friend has beaten your time and you want to try to top them now. I used to do this with a guy from NintendoLife back on the U.

Anyways, I just thought I'd share some perspective because I really do believe the time trials in this game can be for anyone. Heck, they got me into it and I was the last person on this earth who cared anything about speed runs. Maybe give it a shot- just for casual fun of course. If something blossoms out of that then so be it and if not then no worries because you're just having casual fun, getting silver and gold medal times (which really isn't that hard to do)

Ok, I'm upgrading my Hollow Knight recommendation to "maybe one of the best indie games I've ever played in my life".

Its even better than Steamworld Dig 2, and that's saying something.

Like Dark Souls, if you die, you lose your "souls" or money or whatever they are. You can retrace your steps to where you died to reclaim it. There'll be a black ghost of yourself you must kill to get it all back. It attacks though so watch out!

Amazing exploration, killer bosses, absolute precision gameplay, perfect item/ability progression...

Its like a mix between Metroid and Dark Souls and Ori and the Blind Forest.

I haven't been this hopelessly overwhelmed by a feeling of being incredibly lost, not knowing where the HECK you are, while being surrounded by real, imminent danger, since the days of Metroid Prime.

10/10 absolute must own. I said before that Ori and the Blind Forest was worth buying an Xbox One for, $20 game or not. And I'm gonna say the same thing for Hollow Knight and Switch, even at $14.99 (a mind blowing price considering the quality of the game and the fact all DLC expansions are included). This game is worth owning a system to play.

Seconded the Hollow Knight recommendation, it's absolutely fantastic. It's console exclusive to Switch for now as well.

I'll third it. Hollow Knight is stellar. Probably the best indie game on the platform so far.

It's challenging without being unfair, subtle without being deliberately obscure, and atmospheric and charming in turns. Great music, expert sound design, very tight controls.