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Topic: What are the Essential characteristics of a Zelda game?

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NintendoLife

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Edited on by NintendoLife

Nintendo Life

judaspete

There needs to be a good ballance of puzzles, exploration, and combat. Basically a triforce of them. BotW changed the structure quite a bit, but still gave a pretty even combination of those three things. It took me some time to get into it, but ultimately won me over once I found that ballance in the gameplay loop.

judaspete

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sixrings

A boy helping save a helpless princess.

sixrings

kkslider5552000

judaspete wrote:

There needs to be a good ballance of puzzles, exploration, and combat. Basically a triforce of them. BotW changed the structure quite a bit, but still gave a pretty even combination of those three things. It took me some time to get into it, but ultimately won me over once I found that ballance in the gameplay loop.

This is basically my thoughts. One of the main reasons I love Zelda (and Zelda-like games) is for its gameplay variety. Some games rely heavily on a single genre or a single specific gameplay mechanic, but its the variety between exploration, combat and puzzle (the variety within those three things) and the fact you aren't just doing the same thing over and over again that makes Zelda so enjoyable for me. There are games out there that are better at one specific thing Zelda also does (often by making that one thing the entire focus), but how they come together is what makes Zelda, Zelda imo. Zelda's better than the sum of its parts (and those parts are often really solid).

Edited on by kkslider5552000

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NintendoByNature

sixrings wrote:

A boy helping save a helpless princess.

Super Mario bros?

NintendoByNature

bpapa2020

Adventure and exploration, puzzle solving, and an accessible yet rewarding system for combat.

Every single Zelda game has that.

bpapa2020

Dezzy

I think basically every Zelda is based on these 4 factors, in order of importance:

1. An interesting world to explore.
2. Good dungeons.
3. Good story and characters
4. Cool boss fights.

Although that said, plenty of Zelda games only manage 3 out of the 4. In fact Breath of the Wild only really manages 2 out of the 4, because it has very little story and the boss fights suck. But it kinda makes up for it by being so good on the first 2 points (counting shrines as dungeons in that case)

I think Ocarina of Time is the only one that does all 4 well. Even my other favourite games in the series usually mess up one of them. Wind Waker has boring dungeons. A Link Between Worlds has almost no story. Twilight Princess has a boring world.

Edited on by Dezzy

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jump

The true staple of the series is cutting grass.

Nicolai wrote:

Alright, I gotta stop getting into arguments with jump. Someone remind me next time.

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Krull

Do Zelda games have a good story, though? They progress from start to finish, but I generally think they are typical Nintendo titles, in that the gameplay comes first and the story is an afterthought. Which is why pretending there is some overall Zelda timeline linking (not intended) all the narratives was always ridiculous - though that doesn’t mean people can’t have fun trying.

Link’s Awakening has a nice ending, but if you wrote down what happens through the game as a story, it would be terribly thin. Same with LttP. I guess there’s more of a plot than in the Mario games, but no Zelda title is really up there with a contemporaneous JRPG. I don’t see that as a problem, either.

Exploration, combat, puzzles - that is indeed the triforce, as judaspete says. Until BotW there was also a Metroidvania element, in that you would need to acquire new gear to progress to another dungeon and/or beat a boss.

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jump

@Krull Yeah, I find the story is just functional, which makes the game compelling just enough rather than stand out. To me it always seems people use "story" as blunt inarticulate world to actually mean the escapism to the world, some interesting characters (which is rarely Zelda and almost never Link themselves) and the background lore rather than the "plot" of the game itself which rarely deviates from it's established true and tested formula.

Not to say there aren't some fantastic stand out moments but overall people don't recommend or say they love Zelda for the story.

Edited on by jump

Nicolai wrote:

Alright, I gotta stop getting into arguments with jump. Someone remind me next time.

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Octane

I'll take this opportunity to rag on BOTW once more. Because I can, and because it makes me look cooler.

They need to up the enemy variety. BOTW had the biggest world, but the smallest number of enemies, if you don't count the reskins. It was the same bunch of enemies everywhere. Enter the volcano zone; oh look, now you get to fight a fire bat and fire blob. Go to the snowy mountains and you're fighting ice bats and ice blobs.

Get some deku babas in those forests, and wolfos in the mountains. And don't do reskins. That's bad game design 101 according to myself.

Octane

NinChocolate

Stabbing skeletons. It’s really the only essential I need.

NinChocolate

jump

@damien33ad You think all the shrines are the same? There was an incredible amount of variety in the puzzles and challenges they had within them.

Nicolai wrote:

Alright, I gotta stop getting into arguments with jump. Someone remind me next time.

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Magician

Location progression gated by item acquisition, puzzle-solving through the use of those items, and the Zelda iconography. The Zelda series has more in common with the adventure genre than is does action, although the combat is usually good as well. Some like to label the Zelda series as action/rpg games, but I associate the rpg genre with stat increases through level and gear progression. And although the Zelda games have gear progression, it takes a backseat to exploration, you're not spending a whole lot of time within menus when playing a Zelda game.

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Dezzy

Krull wrote:

Do Zelda games have a good story, though? They progress from start to finish, but I generally think they are typical Nintendo titles, in that the gameplay comes first and the story is an afterthought.

They typically have quite simple stories, but they're often told quite well.

Ocarina of Time, Twilight Princess, and Skyward Sword, are the 3 that really stand out for me on the story-telling front.

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Maaryotyme

damien33ad wrote:

@jump I'll grant the puzzles had SOME variety. But there's we're almost 30 tests of strength. Then, every shrine looked exactly the see with the exact same music and the exact same cut scenes. 120 times. 120 times. 120 times. 120 times. 120 times 120 times. See, that was me repeating myself just 6 times. Now if I had done that 120 times it makes for a miserable gaming experience, for some people.

@damien33ad did you want less shrines. You don’t need to go through 120 shrines. I finished it with 60 shrines and enjoyed the game.
It’s like Mario 64 had 120 stars. 120 stars. 120 stars. Did I want less stars in it. NO WAY

Maaryotyme

bpapa2020

bpapa2020 wrote:

Adventure and exploration, puzzle solving, and an accessible yet rewarding system for combat.

Every single Zelda game has that.

After reading some of the other posts in this thread, I would consider adding “aided by acquiring an inventory of weapons, items, and abilities” to my “adventure and exploration” part. It’s a nod to the “item in every dungeon” you got in traditional Zelda games while still including the atypical system in BOTW.

bpapa2020

Octane

@LetsaGO Quality over quantity. A bunch of them were just combat shrines. A bunch of them were just the reward itself. A little over half were actual shrines. A couple were motion control based. A bunch of them were incredibly simply. I think the amount of actual good shrines were only a handful to a dozen. I rather have 20-ish bigger dungeon-like shrines over the shrines in BOTW.

Each with a unique boss fight at the end, and with a unique theme would go a long way.

Octane

Maaryotyme

@Octane I agree and would prefer 20 great shrines with bosses but then you didn’t really need to get 120 shrines to complete the game. They were just optional extra to give the game more hours to play. Getting 120 of them means the game gets more easy with more hearts. I don’t think I would ever attempt to 100% the game.

Maaryotyme

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