I really hope Nintendo are thinking NES to SNES rather than Gamecube to Wii. We need iteration rather than reinvention. The Switch is a great brand and concept, but does anyone else think there is a risk Nintendo will go in a different direction?
@MarioBrickLayer
I agree with what you're saying but not your example. I think your example says quite a lot about the power of marketing that you think the Wii was a massive re-invention. I'd describe the history of Nintendo consoles and their relationships to each other as something like this:
Generally three types of relationships here. There are consoles where the technical changes are trivial and/or superficial outside of significant memory/CPU bumps. There are consoles where the hardware is similar but different enough that compatibility would have been broken if not for the hardware literally containing the old hardware also. Then there's the NES -> SNES transition which is... kinda the same minus actually having compatibility
So basically, I really hope Nintendo are thinking of more of a Gamecube to Wii transition than NES to SNES
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@skywake From a hardware and backwards compatibility perspective you're right. But from a concept and player perspective I see NES to SNES as iterative whilst Gamecube to Wii was conceptually a massive change in direction, despite them being clever with the hardware and backwards compatibility.
So from a concept perspective, I want NES to SNES + Backwards Compatibility rather than Switch to a home console with a controller you use with your feet!!
@skywake Wasn't that what happened with the Switch though? BotW would've been a holiday 2016 game but got delayed to March 2017 alongside the announcement that it would be a Switch (NX back then) launch title. That suggests either the Switch was intended to launch in holiday 2016 but something delayed both it and BotW or that BotW was delayed to be a Switch launch title.
@MarioBrickLayer
eh, maybe. I get what you're saying but it's a bit of a marketey perspective. I mean when you really boil down all the things that made the Wii not a Gamecube? It's basically just Bluetooth. Bluetooth is what enabled higher bandwidth wireless peripherals
And if that's what comes after the Switch? Hell, I'm all for that kind of iterative change. Sign me up for Switch with higher clocks, more memory bandwidth, more RAM, more modern instructions. And throw into the box a new controller that creates new kinds of opportunities. Hell, make an accessory like that now for the Switch .... oh wait, already happened... a couple of times
But if they go all NES -> SNES on it, or worse go all N64 on it? I mean then they're fundamentally releasing an entirely new platform. The N64 at the extreme end was a piece of hardware that shared almost nothing with what came before or after. The Switch is kinda like that right now with the only real lifeline being that unlike with the N64 the Wii U, while wildly different hardware, did have a similar output. If you connected a Wii U Pro Controller to the Switch, booted up Mario Kart 8 I'd just assume it was on the Wii U
......... also on that note, always REALLY annoyed me that the Switch never supported Wii and Wii U controllers. There's no technical reason I can think of why it didn't. I mean they went and supported Gamecube controllers because Smash players be vocal. But no WiiMotes, no Wii U Pro Controllers, no SNES classic controllers. Would've been nice for Skyward Sword HD to use an actual WiiMote. Also the Wii U Pro Controller, had a much better D-Pad than the Switch Pro Controller
I hope Nintendo are opting to iterate rather than innovate. With the Switch soon to become Nintendo's most successful platform ever, I have a difficult time believing they'd deviate from the hybrid model. Save the innovating for fifteen years from now when I have one foot in the grave.
Switch Physical Collection - 1,234 games (as of March 12th, 2024)
Favorite Quote: "Childhood is not from birth to a certain age and at a certain age the child is grown, and puts away childish things. Childhood is the kingdom where nobody dies." -Edna St. Vincent Millay
@skywake When I think of the Gamecube, I think of a traditional, powerful console mainly aimed at traditional gamers. The Wii was completely different, it was this family friendly motion control focused social device, despite the internal hardware being the same.
Gamecube = Resident Evil 4 + Metroid Prime
Wii = Wii Sports + Wii Fit
as @Magician said, lets hope they don't deviate from the hybrid model! My worry is, that they will think they need to innovate, when they don't need too.
as @Magician said, lets hope they don't deviate from the hybrid model! My worry is, that they will think they need to innovate, when they don't need too.
I think they will keep the cart factor but innovate/iterate at the same time-both go hand-in-hand not exclusive to one or the other. The OLED form is most likely the size going forward any bigger then they got the Steam Deck. Too big will turn players away. I already have the OLED Pokémon/Splatoon3 and now waiting for a 4K/DLSS OLED Switch to come. Just as mentioned it's most likely release around time of BOTW2 with or shortly after to take advantage of sales and release dates.
@SwitchForce I think you have started to highlight a key point here, what are the things that don't need to change, for me:-
1. Handheld screen size - keep same as OLED
2. Handheld screen resolution - keep at 720p
3. Overall handheld form factor/size - keep the same
4. detachable joy-cons - keep, but fix drift
Things to change:-
1. FPS - powerful enough to run BOTW at solid 60FPS
2. Internal storage - need much more
3. Include chat/mic + wireless headphones
4. Docked 4K/DLSS
I reckon they will add something to the new model / console besides specs. They'll use whatever technology is appropriately priced and use it with a hook, like they always do. But yeah, I think they will stick with a hybrid format.
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Uh huh. I suppose you wouldn't mind playing at 240p with sub-30fps then? Because you'd need the performance settings that low to keep power draw at a minimum if you want a battery life that long.
Switch Physical Collection - 1,234 games (as of March 12th, 2024)
Favorite Quote: "Childhood is not from birth to a certain age and at a certain age the child is grown, and puts away childish things. Childhood is the kingdom where nobody dies." -Edna St. Vincent Millay
@MarioBrickLayer
What you think of when you think of Wii and Gamecube is irrelevant, frankly. The fact is the Wii and Gamecube were largely the same console except for the fact that the Wii had Bluetooth, significantly more (although still anaemic for the time) storage and an online store. Everything else that was different about the Wii either came from the accessories or the marketing
If they were to do the same to the Switch? What you'd get is a new console that was the Switch but with higher clocks, more memory bandwidth, possibly larger/faster cartridges. All that good stuff. But not substantially different internally and fully compatible with all of the existing Switch games and accessories. And if they "did a Wii" you'd just get something like a redesigned JoyCon or a camera or some kind of motion tracking thing or whatever in the box as standard. Something that opens up new gameplay ideas in addition to just being the Switch again but now with more pixels
And when I think about it...... that's exactly what I want it to be
@Magician
The SoC power draw isn't going to be that much larger. For perspective a standard X1 draws around 10-15W. The equivalent tier of Orin SoC in terms of TDP has 3x the raw performance and 4X the memory bandwidth. And there's a fair chance they'll go a tad under that.
And also as a side note, that same SoC? Remember that DF video talking about what DLSS could do for the Switch? Well they based that all on an assumption of 20TOPS of raw DL compute. At a power draw similar to the OG Switch you'd be looking at something closer to 40-70TOPS. If it was 40TOPS and assuming it scales? You'd need to hit ~80fps to do 60fps and ~35fps to do 30fps at 4K with DLSS
Doesn't matter for battery life except for the fact that when you're on battery you wouldn't be using those cores. But still, worth noting. I reckon if you gave most games on Switch 3-4x memory bandwidth and 2-3x raw compute? You could hit 80fps at HD resolutions. I don't think that's that outlandish to think we may see some games doing "4K" at 60fps on the new hardware. But.... I think 30fps with some additional eye candy probably still be the norm for games that target 4K with DLSS
@SwitchForce I think you have started to highlight a key point here, what are the things that don't need to change, for me:-
1. Handheld screen size - keep same as OLED
2. Handheld screen resolution - keep at 720p
3. Overall handheld form factor/size - keep the same
4. detachable joy-cons - keep, but fix drift
1. Definite keep bigger becomes more problematic
2. Has to be 720p to keep battery drain down on Portable mode
3. OLED is just right bigger and Steam effect comes into play
4. Drift that is still up for debate since we don't know each person play/handling of Joy-Cons.
Things to change:-
1. FPS - powerful enough to run BOTW at solid 60FPS
2. Internal storage - need much more
3. Include chat/mic + wireless headphones
4. Docked 4K/DLSS
1. FPS definitely stable at 60fps
2. They need at least 128gb since you can't upgrade it or some how allow users to upgrade RAM
3. Need Front/Back camera
4. This is the only possible to get the best gameplay for demanding game when Dock but allow the software and hardware to use lower performance when Portable mode.
5. Keep both standard OLED and Premium aks 4K/DLSS model so buyers have option.
6. More MicroSD slots at least two so one can use 2-1tb cards or when they come 2-2tb card for more storage
2. Has to be 720p to keep battery drain down on Portable mode
4. Drift that is still up for debate since we don't know each person play/handling of Joy-Cons.
2. 100% agree, I see no value in going above 720p in handheld, on that size of screen no one can really see the difference, and as you said, the impact on battery by going to a higher resolution is significant.
4. Check out this video from Spawn Wave about drift, SEGA solved it on the Dreamcast more than 20 years ago!
3. Need Front/Back camera
6. More MicroSD slots at least two so one can use 2-1tb cards or when they come 2-2tb card for more storage
3. Not sure I agree regarding cameras. Will they be used that often? Plus more components makes the cost higher.
6. I thought about this too, with digital sales as a % of the total increasing, I could see this happening.
4. Drift that is still up for debate since we don't know each person play/handling of Joy-Cons.
I don't think there's any debate to be had. The tech they're using in them introduces wear. It's the same in the Pro Controller and also controllers from other manufacturers. The JoyCon are just a bit less robust given the size constraints
This is definitely something they should improve especially given the price they're charging for them. Easy win, easy marketing point, easy good PR amongst gamers. Especially if they go down the path of calling it a "Pro" SKU while keeping something like the Lite as a budget friendly option
i.e. buy Switch Pro, 4K via DLSS, 60fps in TotK, enhanced HD rumble, Analogue triggers, Hall Effect sticks. Sign me up now!
4. Drift that is still up for debate since we don't know each person play/handling of Joy-Cons.
I don't think there's any debate to be had. The tech they're using in them introduces wear. It's the same in the Pro Controller and also controllers from other manufacturers. The JoyCon are just a bit less robust given the size constraints
That's to be determined still - I don't have drift in v1(sold), v2(sold), now OLED or on any of Pro Controllers. Theirs's still no actual documented paper or tracking that anyone can really follow the drift to say one way or another - and when asked for such people go quiet or refuse to answer simple questions. I've use my Switch for BOTW when on my first v1 Switch and Pro controllers. Any Many games later on following Switch and Pro Controllers work fine.
Switch Physical Collection - 1,234 games (as of March 12th, 2024)
Favorite Quote: "Childhood is not from birth to a certain age and at a certain age the child is grown, and puts away childish things. Childhood is the kingdom where nobody dies." -Edna St. Vincent Millay
My v1 Joy-Con had no drifts for 3 yrs when I had them and then traded up for v2 until the release of Splatoon 3 OLED then upgrade to that and bought a second Pokémon OLED. So my drifts didn't happen for my usage.
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