Topic: Unpopular Gaming Opinions

@Shambo "no seriously, if it did make you uncomfortable, which is less of an unpopular opinion than it may seem, as religious signs are often censored in games in certain regions, it would be nice to have the option, no?"

I am sorry for the misunderstanding. I meant that it did NOT bother me even if I am not religious. I do not want option to play as heathen or something like that

I am for complete artistic freedom be it racist like in "Bioshock Infinite" or religious like in "Castlevania LoS" or "Blasphemous".

I also understand your position but on the other hand pest control is a normal thing so ...

@Zuljaras There's no misunderstanding, "...if it DID make you...". I think we agree more than you may think we do, even if you disagree with my main point But that's mostly the case in internet discussions. As for religion, I could be considered an "atheist" for being opposed to any depiction and description of any god, but also "religious" because I do not think there is no higher power we just can't understand or perceive with our limited capabilities

And I too am for free artistic expression, as long as there is no one reasonably harmed in the process (as was the case with for example the living gold fish in a blender "art", the throwing cats off stairs "art",... and many other cases. That no real living being is harmed directly in the hunting based side activities of video games, doesn't mean I have to LIKE it, think it's ok to spread it as perfectly normal (racism is often used in an anti-racist way even, by depicting real or imaginary settings in which it is blatantly present, and even giving the player the option to act against it, as was the case in Bioshock Infinite if I recall correctly, but speciesism -discrimination based on species- is very very rarely depicted as something that has actual casualties that actually had their own families, reasons to live,... and it's almost never understood in that way), or that I can't at least voice my opinion against all that, dislike the games that glorify or just "normalise" it, and hope times will change, especially for my brothers and sisters from other species, so that I don't need to shelter a few, and that over a hundred billion innocents don't need to die every year, for some "personal choices". And in this day and age, I think most of us can somehow agree that the real pest is humanity...

@Shambo "And in this day and age, I think most of us can somehow agree that the real pest is humanity..."

That is true but humanity just like everything else has a good and beautiful side.

But no need to continue the discussion here as it has become offtopic

@Shambo - I'll throw in my support for you here as I think you're making a perfectly reasonable comment even though it's clearly considered unpopular by many. I don't have a major issue with seeing representations of hunting and meat-eating in games but it always makes me smile when I realise that the developers take steps to show that this isn't necessarily behaviour that should be normalised.

Or, to put it another way - In the same way that I don't mind creating senseless mayhem in GTA I don't mind playing as someone who eats meat... but it's not who I am in the real world and it's nice when you play a game that is aware of that incongruity.

@LaVelle "but it always makes me smile when I realise that the developers take steps to show that this isn't necessarily behaviour that should be normalised."

I am sorry to continue the topic like that but I couldn't help it.

Both meat-eating and vegan-eating are normal. To state that something is normalized is like saying that it is wrong.

I hope you did not mean it that way. Probably you meant that it is cool to have alternative options?

@Zuljaras

Yes, I agree that it's good to have different opinions about things and certainly don't believe that my perspectives should be universally accepted as true. But yes, I believe it is wrong to eat meat.

That doesn't mean I think people who do so are unethical. We all have to draw our lines of how we want to impact the world around us. I, for example, still fly frequently despite knowing the environmental damage it causes. But I think in this day and age, when alternatives are available - no creature should be killed (and especially to the astonishingly unethical standards with which the industry operates) for human consumption. I do not believe it is right.

However, I appreciate not everyone feels the same way. That's okay too. I'm happy to disagree with people about this and don't complain when I see people eating meat. That doesn't change my opinion though. Yes, meat eating is normal. No, I don't think it should be.

Am happy to call this conversation a day and probably won't reply again on this matter if that's okay. I 100% respect your opinion - I just happen to disagree.

@Shambo Yeah I’d say most games should be able to accommodate for your lifestyle. It’ll probably happen more often than not in 5 or so years.

The exception would obviously be hunting and fishing games and stuff like Red Dead Redemption which depict a particular period of history. I don’t think there were many vegan cowboys/outlaws in the 19th century.

But I think it’s okay other than that.

As a vegetarian myself, I agree with this. Not everything that happens in a game has to be morally acceptable in the real world, but it's always nice when games offer choices to allow your character to better represent your own values and behaviour.

The need to feel that alternative lifestyle choices are validated through atypical sources is fine. Vegetarianism/veganism is never represented in games (not in any that I've played at least) and I think having some positive representation would help move away from the "vegan nutter" stereotype mentioned earlier. It's a hard lifestyle choice. You can't even eat regular sugar. My wife is vegetarian (I'm more of a pescetarian myself) and she gets heck from coworkers and family members. I could see why she would find a vegatarian/vegan friendly game more relatable.

That said, I still fundamentally disagree with the idea that a fictional character needs to be "like me". Unless it serves the narrative or gameplay in someway it would be kind of superfluous. The exception would be games where you make the main character. Then it makes perfect sense, to me, to have that kind of option.

It still feels like a bit of an odd juxtaposition. Like if I was playing Donkey Kong Country and the game informs me that DK is 'pro choice'.

I'm now imagining some kind of cross between Donkey Konga and Trauma Centre game set in a family planning clinic. ಠ_ಠ

My ex partner was very happy seeing that the Sims gave it as an option in the character creation, and many vegans and vegetarians have been met with hostility from their environment, so being able to freely express that, even in a virtual environment, is liberating. When I was a silent vegetarian that was constantly the case. When I became vegan and spoke up that changed because my close family started seeing things from my -and more importantly, the animals their- perspective, and many became vegan as well. It's more often ridiculed and even demonised still, so actually very far from accepted as "normal". And I too think that making the choice to take away someone's choice and right to live and be free should not be accepted as normal, but "normal" is what most people do I suppose, "according to the norm". Normal however does not mean anything else than that, and never meant most people SHOULD do it. That does not mean I can't respect other traits in the same person, but I cannot "respect" the choice for or the act of killing of my brothers and sisters...
I agree that in certain games it would be out of place, and that characters written in a story can perfectly be flawed and be better "characters" for it. But in games where you create a character, or that should simply be enjoyable by all, it should be possible to make the choice at least, if it's not entirely irrelevant. I don't need a game to be about "me", but if it's important to connect with your character for immersion, it's very much immersion breaking to not have the option to not partake in doing what you would instantly and totally refuse in real life. As for the example of DK being pro choice, neither option is ever implied or relevant to the game, so that would be out of place. Noodle in Snake Pass is a snake, so naturally you'd assume Noodle eats meat. But it would break such a peaceful game to even imagine Noodle consuming an animal, so the note that he's a vegetarian is not really irrelevant. Link is supposed to be the "link" between the player and the adventure, the world of Hyrule. If he suddenly spoke it would probably shock most players, even if they've been asking for more voice acting. If someone at Nintendo officially announced Mario likes pizza with pineapples, is a catholic, would have voted Hillary Clinton, went on a weekly hunting trip... Everyone and their grandmother would suddenly find a reason to dislike him. If an in-game character suddenly hits their dog, beats their partner,... most people won't like them anymore, and wouldn't want to control the other actions of a character that takes control away from the player when doing what is generally accepted as absolutely not done. It can be part of a story though, but every writer knows that they will have written an unlikable character that way.

Heavy Rain says hello...

@HobbitGamer It's been too long since I played that game, could you please refresh my memory? Unless you're talking about the actual killer, that one I remember and I liked up until a certain point, but even though it's an older game, I won't risk spoiling it for someone else, and I don't know how to mask potential spoiler text.

@Shambo
Put your text between the following brackets [spoiler ] ... [/spoiler ] but remove the spaces in both.

@Shambo Yup, I'm talking about that character. Those folks did a great job with that game.

@Shulkalot Thanks, that's easy enough to remember!

@HobbitGamer That's indeed a perfect example of a seemingly lovable character, as who the player gets to do some actual good deeds (I can only really remember the robbery in the store, but I was really invested in that character from there on), only to find out he's very despicable in the end...

It's a little silly that we're having a conversation about "it's a shame games represent human carnivores as eating meat instead of representing modern political trends!" .....when the overwhelming majority of games don't offer the lifestyle of choice of being not a mass murderer, either..... Hunting a deer for food and clothing....how offensive! Choices should be allowed. Mowing everyone down an entire airbase, naval bombardment of another island, airstrikes against stationary targets, slaughtering every alien on a space station, and delivering some Freedom Pie? Dam straight, I'll take another hit of that!

@NEStalgia Thats kind of what I mean. It's asanine to derive ethics from video games. When just about any action can be immediately followed by teabagging it sort of undermines the gravity. Again, not saying it's inappropriate just misplaced.

@NEStalgia And I think it's a bit silly to write a question as old as ethics and philosophy off as a "modern political trend". A question we're even asking when it comes to the Switch running Crysis, but not when it comes to killing and eating about 160 billion animals each year: "it CAN be done, but SHOULD it?". I see how one would believe we're "omnivores" (as mentioned earlier, most creatures actually are omnivorous to a certain degree, but modern science says humans lean much more to being frugivorous), because all media -games included- fail to even question it, and the biggest health organisations are partly run by hand-picked people of the dairy and meat industries. Which is just another reason why I'd like to see my favourite medium, video games, at least when applicable, adopt the idea a little more often. Whether it's because the world is adopting it, or the world accepts it a little more because media shines a light on it.

@Shambo I guess I'm unsure of what exactly you want a game to do to be vegan friendly. Is it representation or is it that you want a game to be holistically about veganism? My concern is the latter would come off like the Bible games. You're trying to market an idea where most people wouldnt buy into it because they already identify it as something "not for them" and the people that would buy it are already vegan (probably).

Representation is a good thing so long as it doesnt feel like a pointless bumpersticker that someone tacked on to an otherwise unrelated experience. I guess the middle ground is something that would be a vegan-friendly experience without you even realizing it. It needs to plant the seed that veganism is an option. Not scream "MEAT IS BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD".