Topic: Unpopular Gaming Opinions

@Shambo My girlfriend is vegan and she hates it when people says stuff like that as it ends up with people generalizing all vegans as a bunch of nutters forcing their values onto others.

@jump Can you tell me what part made me seem like a "nutter"? These game mechanics just make zero sense, and are absolutely not enjoyable to people who have fought and took great risks for animal rights and animal freedom throughout, well, over 16 years now, causing some severe ptsd in some cases. Some of my very best friends are "just animals", as a child some of my best friends were butchered, literally forced a knife in their throat, and I was literally forced to join in eating them - which I refused obviously. I walked in on a good friend of mine that happened to be a lamb, being decapitated and gutted. And they tried to make me eat him! How am I the "nutter", how am I forcing my ideas? And how did I do any of that in the original post, by just wishing games would give other options than forcing players to either be handicapped for the entire game, of have to do stuff that makes them dislike their own protagonist? People will generalise every group they're not part of regardless, anyway. Even mentioning the word "vegan" when being asked if you have any dietary preferences (while veganism isn't about a diet), gets you all the same reactions. Being quiet about it doesn't help a living soul from ending up dead in a supermarket refrigerator. I've heard plenty of times that speaking up has negative effects, but the same people always ask among vegans how we cope with meat eating family. While I don't have meat eating family anymore.

@Zuljaras I did hear some people complain about these things, probably less so than I do though, but then again, most of my friends are vegan as well, or at least don't like to see animals hurt minding their own business. It's mostly stuff like "why does eating meat restore double the amount of health that eating a bunch of bananas does?", which in my experience makes zero sense because I got over several health issues by living on raw fruits for two years (including protein imbalance in my blood, not kidding, and the more obvious one of being overweight before and tiring very quickly, in contrast with starting boxing and physical training just to get rid of my energy). Now I live with a couple of rescued animals in a forest.
But of course the real issue in video games is indeed that I have a hard time spending a whole game with a protagonist that has such different ideologies and moral standpoints from my own. If a game had its players shooting random dogs or cats and eat them, or clubbing seals for "materials", more people would probably agree it's not a nice thing to do. If a protagonist has a trait which to you as a player is not done, it's hard to enjoy the experience (but sometimes I can get over it, simply by accepting that the protagonist is a character I don't HAVE to like, or definitely don't have to agree with on everything. It's not me, it's a character in a story, one that I just happen to control (and can mostly steer away from doing what I wouldn't do). I mean, I played countless shooters, but I couldn't even aim an empty gun at a real living being in real life if a loaded gun was pointed at me.

@Shambo I am sorry but such ideologies should be discussed in forums that are FOR them. This is gaming community and "vegan" and such things should NOT affect gaming AT ALL.

That is like me an atheist to say "I am uncomfortable playing games with religious content!" or "My protagonist is a religious person and I do not like it!".

Also can you imagine a fantasy game where you gather faux leather? It is impossible.

I think people in general seem to have difficulty in seperating themselves from the media and fiction they consume.

@Zuljaras which would be perfectly within your "god given" rights
no seriously, if it did make you uncomfortable, which is less of an unpopular opinion than it may seem, as religious signs are often censored in games in certain regions, it would be nice to have the option, no? If there's a game about crusading, where you're actually expected to control a crusader killings "heathens", I'm sure you can imagine you wouldn't very much relate with the character you're supposed to relate to, let alone performing those actions. I imagine you and me both probably wouldn't play that game. Many things that have far less impact on real lives are flat out censored in video games, such as the age of certain characters, their clothes, or even the gender. Some people are arguably taking things too far looking for racism and sexism in media these days, and finding things to be offended about to the point of altering history because "more women should be on the battlefield in, well, Battlefield". But I'm not saying I want all of it altered as if it never happened, there is definitely a point to be made for historical correctness or credibility at least for example, but even then most censoring doesn't mind that, as with some WW2 games censoring swastikas for example. And I'm certainly not advocating for censorship either. I'm saying that I want the option to not have to do it more often, as with BotW for example, I never hunted in that game, and cooked vegan.
As for fantasy games, in certain settings, especially far removed from realism or on the contrary, where some form of "credibility" has to be maintained even in a fantasy setting resembling a real time period, I can overlook it. But, for example, when I was interested in how Red Dead Redemption 2 turned out, and saw many reviews going on and on about how realistic the hunting was (and what a chore it seemed even), I just knew I'm not touching that game.
When I played Minit, I was very much surprised to see a "vegan mode" option, even if it only changed one line in the game ("hamburgers" into "veggie burgers" I think it was), and was used to unlock another mode in an alternate way. It's a funny thing, of little impact, like the option to change the direction toilet paper rolls are mounted in Thimbleweed Park, but one that for obvious reasons speaks to me personally way more. Or the loading screen text in Snake Pass, "did you know that Noodle is a vegetarian?". In Xenoblade Chronicles X there was a mission to "cull" some nests of some basically harmless creatures, and just as I was about to say "screw this, I'm not doing it", the game actually gave the option to not murder a nest of newborns, and just report back pretending you did it. I'm sure you can imagine it's just nice for someone like me to see these things.

@Shambo "no seriously, if it did make you uncomfortable, which is less of an unpopular opinion than it may seem, as religious signs are often censored in games in certain regions, it would be nice to have the option, no?"

I am sorry for the misunderstanding. I meant that it did NOT bother me even if I am not religious. I do not want option to play as heathen or something like that

I am for complete artistic freedom be it racist like in "Bioshock Infinite" or religious like in "Castlevania LoS" or "Blasphemous".

I also understand your position but on the other hand pest control is a normal thing so ...

@Zuljaras There's no misunderstanding, "...if it DID make you...". I think we agree more than you may think we do, even if you disagree with my main point But that's mostly the case in internet discussions. As for religion, I could be considered an "atheist" for being opposed to any depiction and description of any god, but also "religious" because I do not think there is no higher power we just can't understand or perceive with our limited capabilities

And I too am for free artistic expression, as long as there is no one reasonably harmed in the process (as was the case with for example the living gold fish in a blender "art", the throwing cats off stairs "art",... and many other cases. That no real living being is harmed directly in the hunting based side activities of video games, doesn't mean I have to LIKE it, think it's ok to spread it as perfectly normal (racism is often used in an anti-racist way even, by depicting real or imaginary settings in which it is blatantly present, and even giving the player the option to act against it, as was the case in Bioshock Infinite if I recall correctly, but speciesism -discrimination based on species- is very very rarely depicted as something that has actual casualties that actually had their own families, reasons to live,... and it's almost never understood in that way), or that I can't at least voice my opinion against all that, dislike the games that glorify or just "normalise" it, and hope times will change, especially for my brothers and sisters from other species, so that I don't need to shelter a few, and that over a hundred billion innocents don't need to die every year, for some "personal choices". And in this day and age, I think most of us can somehow agree that the real pest is humanity...

@Shambo "And in this day and age, I think most of us can somehow agree that the real pest is humanity..."

That is true but humanity just like everything else has a good and beautiful side.

But no need to continue the discussion here as it has become offtopic

@Shambo - I'll throw in my support for you here as I think you're making a perfectly reasonable comment even though it's clearly considered unpopular by many. I don't have a major issue with seeing representations of hunting and meat-eating in games but it always makes me smile when I realise that the developers take steps to show that this isn't necessarily behaviour that should be normalised.

Or, to put it another way - In the same way that I don't mind creating senseless mayhem in GTA I don't mind playing as someone who eats meat... but it's not who I am in the real world and it's nice when you play a game that is aware of that incongruity.

@LaVelle "but it always makes me smile when I realise that the developers take steps to show that this isn't necessarily behaviour that should be normalised."

I am sorry to continue the topic like that but I couldn't help it.

Both meat-eating and vegan-eating are normal. To state that something is normalized is like saying that it is wrong.

I hope you did not mean it that way. Probably you meant that it is cool to have alternative options?

@Zuljaras

Yes, I agree that it's good to have different opinions about things and certainly don't believe that my perspectives should be universally accepted as true. But yes, I believe it is wrong to eat meat.

That doesn't mean I think people who do so are unethical. We all have to draw our lines of how we want to impact the world around us. I, for example, still fly frequently despite knowing the environmental damage it causes. But I think in this day and age, when alternatives are available - no creature should be killed (and especially to the astonishingly unethical standards with which the industry operates) for human consumption. I do not believe it is right.

However, I appreciate not everyone feels the same way. That's okay too. I'm happy to disagree with people about this and don't complain when I see people eating meat. That doesn't change my opinion though. Yes, meat eating is normal. No, I don't think it should be.

Am happy to call this conversation a day and probably won't reply again on this matter if that's okay. I 100% respect your opinion - I just happen to disagree.

@Shambo Yeah I’d say most games should be able to accommodate for your lifestyle. It’ll probably happen more often than not in 5 or so years.

The exception would obviously be hunting and fishing games and stuff like Red Dead Redemption which depict a particular period of history. I don’t think there were many vegan cowboys/outlaws in the 19th century.

But I think it’s okay other than that.

As a vegetarian myself, I agree with this. Not everything that happens in a game has to be morally acceptable in the real world, but it's always nice when games offer choices to allow your character to better represent your own values and behaviour.

The need to feel that alternative lifestyle choices are validated through atypical sources is fine. Vegetarianism/veganism is never represented in games (not in any that I've played at least) and I think having some positive representation would help move away from the "vegan nutter" stereotype mentioned earlier. It's a hard lifestyle choice. You can't even eat regular sugar. My wife is vegetarian (I'm more of a pescetarian myself) and she gets heck from coworkers and family members. I could see why she would find a vegatarian/vegan friendly game more relatable.

That said, I still fundamentally disagree with the idea that a fictional character needs to be "like me". Unless it serves the narrative or gameplay in someway it would be kind of superfluous. The exception would be games where you make the main character. Then it makes perfect sense, to me, to have that kind of option.

It still feels like a bit of an odd juxtaposition. Like if I was playing Donkey Kong Country and the game informs me that DK is 'pro choice'.

I'm now imagining some kind of cross between Donkey Konga and Trauma Centre game set in a family planning clinic. ಠ_ಠ

My ex partner was very happy seeing that the Sims gave it as an option in the character creation, and many vegans and vegetarians have been met with hostility from their environment, so being able to freely express that, even in a virtual environment, is liberating. When I was a silent vegetarian that was constantly the case. When I became vegan and spoke up that changed because my close family started seeing things from my -and more importantly, the animals their- perspective, and many became vegan as well. It's more often ridiculed and even demonised still, so actually very far from accepted as "normal". And I too think that making the choice to take away someone's choice and right to live and be free should not be accepted as normal, but "normal" is what most people do I suppose, "according to the norm". Normal however does not mean anything else than that, and never meant most people SHOULD do it. That does not mean I can't respect other traits in the same person, but I cannot "respect" the choice for or the act of killing of my brothers and sisters...
I agree that in certain games it would be out of place, and that characters written in a story can perfectly be flawed and be better "characters" for it. But in games where you create a character, or that should simply be enjoyable by all, it should be possible to make the choice at least, if it's not entirely irrelevant. I don't need a game to be about "me", but if it's important to connect with your character for immersion, it's very much immersion breaking to not have the option to not partake in doing what you would instantly and totally refuse in real life. As for the example of DK being pro choice, neither option is ever implied or relevant to the game, so that would be out of place. Noodle in Snake Pass is a snake, so naturally you'd assume Noodle eats meat. But it would break such a peaceful game to even imagine Noodle consuming an animal, so the note that he's a vegetarian is not really irrelevant. Link is supposed to be the "link" between the player and the adventure, the world of Hyrule. If he suddenly spoke it would probably shock most players, even if they've been asking for more voice acting. If someone at Nintendo officially announced Mario likes pizza with pineapples, is a catholic, would have voted Hillary Clinton, went on a weekly hunting trip... Everyone and their grandmother would suddenly find a reason to dislike him. If an in-game character suddenly hits their dog, beats their partner,... most people won't like them anymore, and wouldn't want to control the other actions of a character that takes control away from the player when doing what is generally accepted as absolutely not done. It can be part of a story though, but every writer knows that they will have written an unlikable character that way.

Heavy Rain says hello...

@HobbitGamer It's been too long since I played that game, could you please refresh my memory? Unless you're talking about the actual killer, that one I remember and I liked up until a certain point, but even though it's an older game, I won't risk spoiling it for someone else, and I don't know how to mask potential spoiler text.

@Shambo
Put your text between the following brackets [spoiler ] ... [/spoiler ] but remove the spaces in both.

@Shambo Yup, I'm talking about that character. Those folks did a great job with that game.