Glass Onion is also my film of the year. Admittedly that doesn't mean much because I think I've only seen two films released this year, the other being Turning Red, but both are very good.
Thank you Nintendo for giving us Donkey Kong Jr Math on Nintendo Music
@EaglyTheKawaiiShika, the simple narratives of the Avatar films with their blatant environmentalism are features, not bugs. They're mashed potatoes narratives meant to be easily digested by mass audiences. They're not Shakespeare, but they're not meant to be and aren't written any worse than your typical blockbuster (I don't think it's particularly worse than Top Gun: Maverick in this regard, and certainly better than Love & Thunder). I could maybe see it being a bit slow in the middle when they're acclimating to their new tribe, but I don't think that in itself ruins it.
You say that it should have been purely a "revenge mission" from Quatridge, when that's exactly what it already is. The new commander in control of the RDA as a whole (played by Edie Falco) doesn't even show up after the first act after Jake's family flees. Quatridge takes it upon himself to pull rank and commandeer one of the "whaling" ships to to seek out Jake for a grudge match (the RDA isn't sending their military power as a whole after him by this point).
As for why Jake fled in the first place, well he has a family now and has more to lose than he did in the first film. Starting out his insurgency was still successful & the RDA hadn't been able to impregnate their (floating) mountain stronghold, but once Quatridge showed that they could get in (and his sons were starting to put their own lives at risk trying to be "heroes") his priority changed to safeguarding his family. He assumed the RDA wouldn't attack the Ometikaya (forest Na'vi) without him leading an insurrection (we don't see if this is true or not because we don't get any followup with the tribe after they leave), and that Quatridge would leave the forest tribe alone as he only wants to hunt Jake (this was true).
As for characters "not growing", the entire point was that Jake learned he (& family) couldn't run from his problems. Despite being a hardass, Quatridge was shown that he does ultimately care for his son as well. Lo'ak was the child with the most time spent on them, having the hardest time fitting into their new home, but they're clearly building up Kiri (& Spider) for the sequels, and Tuk is still too young to generally do anything with her so she gets a pass. Now arguably they don't give Ney'tiri enough to do (except grudgingly submit to Jake's decisions) which is fair criticism, but overall in terms of core characters it's not that bad. Simple sure, but not necessarily bad.
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@jump Boiling Point was my #1 this year! Stephen Graham, such a class act…
I loved everything about it, and the ‘one-take’ experience was great in adding to the bubbling tension
@CJD87 ooh, I’m definitely interested in a show based on Boiling Point. I had a looksie at the article and (not surprisingly) it’s not gonna be based at the same restaurant which makes sense but it’s kinda a shame as I still want to see more of chef Stephen Graham.
* While he does connect with their kids and they tolerate having him around, I don't think Jake & Ney'tiri truly accepted them as one of their own by the start of the film. This explains why Ney'tiri was willing to threaten him during the climax to save one of her own.
Ultimately he is a human (& Quartridge's son), so the bigger threat is that (willingly or not) he would give up their location rather than being harmed himself (and this is confirmed when Quartridge steps in when the interrogation gets too rough).
Even if they did want to rescue him, they don't have the military manpower to launch an assault directly on the RDA. The RDA forces are shown to be larger than in the first film, and they only won the first time around by rallying multiple tribes together and Ey'wa interfering by having the wildlife attack. That would be a lot to ask to rescue a human kid, so ultimately they'd have to take the loss.[/spoiler]
Why send Quatridge when he lost once already?
* The RDA had already been trying to find Jake's insurgent lair for some time and had been repeatedly failing (due to the magnetism of the floating mountains interfering with their instruments & the nesting wild Ikran attacking anything not Na'vi as soon as they entered the general area). Something ultimately had to give and despite his previous failure Quatridge & his crew know more about Jake & how he operates than anyone else currently heading the RDA.
Why would the RDA back Quatridge's grudge match when Jake gives up the insurgency?
* He only really has their backing in the sense that he's high enough ranking to do what he wants without asking for much permission. The ship captain outright tells him that his crew isn't really outfitted for a military operation, and he doesn't receive any other sort of military backup (in terms of tech or personnel) from the RDA other than what he takes with him. Chances are HQ is going to be p***** with him over ruining their whaling operation over his grudge.
Aren't the forest Na'vi in danger of being attacked over Unobtanium without Jake's insurgency there to help protect them?
* The large Unobtanium deposit referenced in the first film was located under Hometree, which the RDA already destroyed in that film. The forest Na'vi are presumably not living over a deposit anymore so the RDA doesn't need to attack them to get the stuff. No longer directly operating an insurgency, the RDA should have no reason to attack them for the time being.
For such a "shallow" film you sure seem to be having a pretty hard time following it 😉
Now I'm not saying it should win any awards for best screenplay (it shouldn't), and it has a fair share of contrivance, [spoiler]exactly how Quatridge was revived, miracle whale brain goop, etc., but even given the longer run time the narrative isn't any worse than your average blockbuster (and I'd even say a bit better than some other recent releases), and it's absolutely baffling that internet nerd-dom has such raging hatred over it.
Re: Spider - I never said that Jake hates Spider, just that he lacks the manpower to assault RDA HQ directly to rescue him (and would be unlikely to secure the support of other tribes for that specific goal), and that he probably felt that rescuing him wasn't that important since the humans were more likely to try & repatriate him rather than hurt him (I said this more eloquently in my last post when I broke it up piece by piece, but it doesn't seem like you even really attempted to digest it, and just regurgitated your debunked take from before).
Re: Quatridge/Grudge Match - Given that the ship was going out to sea anyway to whale (and Quatridge's group probably held tight control over what info was allowed to be relayed back to HQ once he took control), RDA HQ probably didn't know how far off base he was taking the operation until s*** went sideways. As for him not being as threatening because he has a smaller force, well so does Jake. The whole concept of "grudge match" kinda indicates a smaller scale, personal scuffle. That's the point.
Re: Forest Na'vi - Eh, as environmentally destructive as the RDA are, even in the first film it was indicated that the RDA tried to make peace/communicate with the forest Na'vi (it was the entire point of the Avatar program), and they were ultimately only goaded into violence by Quatridge (and even then the CEO guy seemed kinda squeamish when faced with how gruesome the Home tree attack was). Given that, I can see them ignoring the forest Na'vi (at least for the time being) if they aren't actively hindering their Unobtanium mining & with Quatridge focusing on Jake specifically.
I think at this point it's probably best to stop though, as we're clearly going to change each other's opinions.
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This argy bargy had kinda made me end up agreeing with the likes of Tarantino and Scorsese rather than condemning Avatar 2.
The worry isn’t that all films will be superheroes or superheroes films are simply thrash but all action blockbusters will have to follow the Marvel template to be accepted as we are now at a point of 30+ Marvels films over 15ish years so there’s a generation raised on them and too accustomed to accept films that aren’t heavily quip/jokes based in dialogue, doesn’t franticly move to scene to scene without taking time to breath and requires the movie to be over explained just like the typical Marvel movie as the audience gets too bored too now and reject it as bAdZ rather than different. It’s a shame as this is leading to films with more ambition like say a Lawrence Of Arabia would never get made nowadays or if they are they are stuck with more mid-tier status like The Northman, Bullet Train etc despite being action blockbusters yet has a lower profile than any old rubbish which just happens to have a cape on it.
@EaglyTheKawaiiShika oh I couldn’t give a toss about Avatar, I will see it sooner or later but if I don’t then I wouldn’t be hugely fussed.
It’s just after a couple pages of you forcibly comparing it to a Marvel movie to complain about it because you mostly watch superhero films I can see the valid criticism that Marvel is ruining cinema for everyone by dumbing it down. Before I’ve always held the view people can just see other better films if they want something else but seemingly anything that not in the mould of the Marvel template will be rejected. You only have to look at this thread where the conversation is constantly either Disney or superheroes that people only want the same movie anyway so yeah, Marvel have f’d cinema for everyone by conditioning the audience to only want one thing from a blockbuster.
Funnily enough I don’t think the newer Marvel films are as bad as people make them out to be despite me condemning Marvel for ruining cinema lol
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