Topic: Cyberbullying

I guess I am just disturbed by the lack of maturity the majority of this forum shows.

Think about when you ring customer service to a company and how it's an incredibly slow and painful experience, it's the same thing with Facebook and GETTR.

Or use this site's moderation where the rock music thread has largely become about sexual assaults.

@Pizzamorg don't exaggerate. It's like a couple of bad apples. That comes with any community.

Is it 3pm GMT uk time yet

Edit wrong thread

The answer depends on how much control you want governments to have over the internet. Anonymity to a degree can be good. You can't have it both ways; complete anonymity and a strictly regulated internet. Though who even owns the internet? And should we even want this? For me the answer is no, so then we'd have to look at other solutions.

That being said, the internet isn't the wild west it once was either. Police do tackle cyberbullying, though that also depends on where you live of course. And places like these are moderated as well. If someone is being an absolute donkey, they will get banned. Users also have the option to ignore (as in the literal ignore button) other users, and report other comments. I guess it's a bit like theft, you can't stop it either, all you can do is control it.

However, the positive side of the internet is that it's not one place. It's a billion websites that each have their own rules and regulations. Some are stricter than others, and unless real life, you not forced to participate in any of them. Don't like the users on a certain site, and if there is little to no moderation, don't go there. Even most websites that have private messaging have an option to block people. And if you feel the need to, nobody is judging you when you use those options.

Whilst I do agree with @gcunit, I do think there is nuance to it. And that makes it so difficult to tackle as well. Can words be hurtful? That depends on the person. When is it verbal abuse? There is no clear answer. Some people won't be offended by anything, other people will get triggered very easily. With physical abuse there is an easier definition. A punch in the face is a punch in the face, and therefore physical abuse. That isn't true for verbal abuse unfortunately.

Language is, in theory, also a barrier. You can say the most hurtful thing you can think of to someone, but if they don't speak your language, it won't ever register. Now, I realise this usually doesn't apply, but it shows that it's very subjective and dependent on the receiver. That being said, verbal abuse can of course harm people mentally, and that's never something to underestimate or ignore. I don't know that there's a clear solution other than use the means to block people you don't want to communicate with, report when necessary, and if it gets out of hand, contact the police. And talk to other people about it.

I've been thinking about this and my guess is that if you started getting emails containing your name, address, phone number, place of business, names of family members & loved ones, etc you might react to it more seriously. Same difference, it's all just words. Words are just incidental to the behavior, and to me bullying (cyber or otherwise) was never really about making someone feel bad but devaluing them and watching them squirm. If you're able to puff out your chest and say it doesnt bother you - good on ya. But i guarantee you know somebody that couldn't do the same and i doubt very much that "victim educating" will help them out if they're being targeted.

Suffice it to say you come off like one of those "against all forms of censorship" types without really having a firm grasp of what they're talking about.

I think the thing we're really boiling down to here is just how much you need to 'remember the human' in the first place. Some people are comfortable and secure and can shut out words in order to not be complicit in their own harm, and that's admirable. I personally try to stay at that level, though I'm fairly easily wounded when I'm just trying to chat with somebody and they come at me for no reason.

On the other hand, plenty of people just aren't like that. They're not 'weak'. They may have neurodivergent aspects that differentiate them from people who would, on the surface, appear to be more stoic, in which case those words can really leave a lasting effect. Saying 'they're just words' is about as useful as saying 'it's just a punch'. You might say then say they shouldn't be on the internet, thereby absolving the people who want to be abusive. If that's really the solution to you then, well, that's a huge shame.

Also, let's not forget that we all go through different stuff on a regular basis. If somebody online tells me to shut up and that my opinion isn't valid, well, that sucks but whatever. If you say that to somebody who spends all day having to be quiet around a controlling husband, or an exhausted person who has to be around a boss that only listens to the light-skinned people at the table, or a barista who got screamed at for not including enough foam in Karen #2453's chai latte and just wants to chat online before bed...well, that stupid little putdown won't roll off their back quite as easily.

QED, remember the human.

@Losermagnet I'm pretty sure gcunit said that with milder stuff in mind as he did go onto elaborate harassing is wrong and different. So he was thinking like that guy on here who was upset about being called a Nazi in the comments section, rather than things like a woman who had a miscarriage and looking for support from friends on facebook being told "good, you would be a terrible mother" or someone talking about their HIV treatment in a support page and seeing stuff like "God hates gays and this is your punishment".

I think I watched too much Star Trek and South Park as a kid, it's put into my head that I'm against censorship as humour and stories shouldn't have boundaries from South Park but I also expect people to want to be better and not so closed minded from Star Trek.

When I was younger you was always taught the saying ' Sticks and stones may brake my bones, but names will never hurt me'.

@MsJubilee Do you honestly think that everyone has not been bullied in some way in their life?

@dew12333 There's a famous poem about that;

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can also hurt me.
Stones and sticks break only skin, while words are ghosts that haunt me.
Slant and curved the word-swords fall, it pierces and sticks inside me.
Bats and bricks may ache through bones, but words can mortify me.
Pain from words has left its' scar, on mind and hear that's tender.
Cuts and bruises have not healed, it's words that I remember.”

There's been a real movement in discussion about mental health in recent years which men are particularly sensitive to with them having a high suicide rate, as men are told to "man up" and not talk about things which the saying stick and stone is being counterproductive to it.

@jump Always two sides and I do understand that if you are someone who suffers when victimized then this phrase is of no help to you. But I do believe that we do need to work on making people be able to deal with things better, as much as we need to educate people on how their actions can effect others.

I see you mention the 'man up' expression and often see this used to say that it is defending the bullies to say that. I can think of many situations in life where I have brushed something off and then someone decided to take issue with it is given special treatment / concessions for the unfair way they have been treated. This causes disparity and resented from me to think that this person has got something that they maybe shouldn't have, and that I no doubt will not get. So does this make people act bullied and do it to gain advantage rather than for the right reasons. Unfortunatly I wonder in too many cases what is the truth.

@jump thats what i get for posting right before bed. If thats the case @gcunit please disregard my sass. I'm not as concerned about people "feeding the trolls" as i am for people who may be contemplating suicide. I think a pretty clear boundary is crossed when an effort is made to damage another human in some way.

And as far as the mental health talk goes - it would be nice if we could convince people to not be bothered by this stuff, but the fact is it's not just depression, maybe it's anxiety disorder, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, etc.. These things arent cured, they're often treated in a lengthy trial-and-error process that only seek to improve the quality of life. And, sadly, these are a lot more common than what people realize.

I came here to read some intelligent thoughts as my early teen daughter is being cyberstalked / bullied by 6-8 former school “friends” who now go to another school. Feel free to skip our story and go straight to the tl;dr.

First started with them contacting her incessantly. When she blocked them, they started friending her friends. When they caught on, they started to report her online (without cause) which ended up with some of her social media accounts getting permabanned.

After blocking them all, they’re now starting to creep my wife’s social media accounts. i.e. they’re looking for any way they can to get to her. As they’re not uttering slurs, threats or posing as her, the incessant pings and interest in her new-found happiness have become too much for either of them to handle.

We’ve considered confronting the parents, but they would only end up defending their children, and regardless of how calm we’d be, our action could be construed more like harassment than what they’re daughters are doing. As you’d probably expect for something like this, the police won’t get involved, either. So all she can do is block or hide (i.e. diminish her only presence).

tl;dr - So whether or not you think that words can be hurtful, it’s more than just that. It gets in your head and the only choice you’re left with is to reduce or eliminate your online presence in order to keep your sanity.

Ok I will share this to give people who've never had to endure bullying an idea of what's it's like, because I suspect they don't have a clue. Please take into account that I'm opening up and sharing deeply personal stuff, even if I don't go into detail and am talking anonymously here.

So I was bullied badly in primary school. Though I was physically strong as a child and could dominate most other kids fairly easily, emotionally it was too hurtful for me. I remember the sheer panic inside when after getting into a fight with someone, the whole class turned against me. Being excluded, ganged up on, ridiculed day in day out, without receiving any help or anyone reaching out to you really is a devastating experience. I was just a child.

Going to secondary school as damaged goods, off course other teens sense you're wound, your insecurity (even if subconsciously) in the way you behave, respond, carry yourself. And so you're an easy target and the cycle continues. I regret to say I bullied others as well (that is perhaps the worst part; doing onto others what has been done onto you) as a way of not being targeted myself. Join in on the bullying so you're not the bullied.

Also, bullying kind of becomes normalized to you. You've seen and experienced these dynamics so much, it becomes a normal way of relating to others, even if it's not. You see that in the way normal people who engage in normal relationships react to this kind of behaviour (they're like, 'what the hell?').

Unnfortunately, at this secondary school there was this messed up clique that basically ridiculed and bullied anyone that didn't belong to their in-group, given the right opportunity, of course especially preying on the vulnerable. I did switch schools halfway through secondary to a much more normal school, but at that point the damage had been done.

Though years of childhood abuse had profoundly impacted me as a person and the further course of my life, I didn't fully become aware of that until around my mid 30's when my youth started playing up again. Took me some years to process what had happened to me, dealing with the emotional shock, the hurt, the anger, the feelings of rejection. It was kind of inevitable though since these things were still playing out in my life and it kinda came to a point of crisis. I'm happy to say I worked through it and am in a much better place now.

I think the most important thing for someone who gets bullied is to seek help and support. Often there is a lot of shame involved in being bullied and the person will just take the abuse and keep it to himself out of shame (sometimes for years on end).

I saw a girl on tv one time who got bullied by the rest of her class and what struck me was that she was able to say those classmates were just stupid/douchebags. She got transferred to another school where she got along well with everyone and they treated her right/normal. I thought wow, for her to have that sense of perspective at such a young age is such a leg up. That's years of potential abuse, of self-doubt and self-hate prevented.

Because often times, when you overwhelmingly hear from your contemporaries that you're stupid, ugly, worthless, nobody likes you, whatever, it's easy to start believing that *****. And then you start hating yourself. BUT note one thing: that girl got support. From her family, from adults in her school. I have no doubt that made a massive difference.

I hope I can convince whoever reads this that bullying is not innocent. Far from it. It can bestow a lifetime of suffering upon a person and the only way that person can free him or herself is by facing, embracing and healing the deep suffering within. Do you really want to be part of that or do you want to uplift your brother? Because make no mistake, we humans are social beings. Do not underestimate our need for belonging.

Also, please remember that even in online gaming where you're anonymous, there's still a real person on the other end. Playing a game I actually love, I've at times found myself really angry and disthrought, because of bullying and getting caught up into that. It's kind of like when you're in traffic and everyone's stressed out and agressive, yelling and swearing at you and cutting you off. Soon you'll find yourself doing the same thing, because that environment is toxic and it affects you. And then you become part of the problem.

In those cases I think it's best to take break. Go for a walk, do something wholesome like meet up with a friend. Go outdoors, talk to real people, do something you enjoy, like draw or play music or prepare a nice meal for yourself or whatever and just let it rest.

Of course in this particular game, the lack of moderation didn't help either, as mods rarely intervene (some can even be abusive themselves), and you see some people go off on disturbing and provoking rants on public chat (where they for example express deep-seated racist views, hatred and prejudice towards others). This kind of harassment and bigoted rhetoric really tears away at the social fabric of this game as the environment turns toxic and people stay away in disgust. A real shame. Also, the fact that so little is being done about it, kind of sends the message that it's ok and you can just get away it. There's no accountability.

To anyone who has suffered from bullying and perhaps still is, I'd like to assure you that it's possible to transform yourself and find peace with your past, but for that you need to embrace your pain, not reject or run away from it. It's not easy, but believe me when I say that you are stronger than you think you are. In the end, despite all the hardship, we can also view those kinds of experiences as a gift, as they've made us into more considerate, more compassionate human beings. And that is something anyone can strive for. As Buddhists say, the lotus flower grows out of the dirt.

Thanks for your responses.
Best

@F-ZeroX Thank you for sharing your story, too.

@Losermagnet (post #42) Social media companies profit off of polarization. They want to maximize your time spent on them and outrage and division are an effective way to do so. Whisteblowers from within have brought to light that companies like Facebook know what the repercussions of their actions are, but still they only care about revenue.

@Losermagnet (post #48) Now imagine thousands of people flooding you incessantly with messages on how you're trash and they know where you live and will come kill and rape you and your family. Cause that's basically what Monica Lewinsky's documentary is about. People getting crucified on social media.

It's easy to take pot shots or kick a man when they're down. I call it selective outrage, mob mentality.

@RabidCanuck Maybe talking to the school principle of the other school and explain what's going on is an option. After all, facilitating emotional and social well-being and growth is an essential task of educators in their job to guide and mold teens into adulthood. I think it could really make a difference if those kids were to be confronted by their teacher/persons in authority. It's a lesson in responsibility.

In a more community oriented society, the whole community rallies behind their youth, doing what they can to make sure they grow up to be responsible and well-educated adults. It's a lot tougher in a more fragmented, individualistic society, where most of the burden falls onto the individual parent(s), which in some situations can leave them feeling powerless.

Edit: Thanks Rabid 👍

@RabidCanuck "We’ve considered confronting the parents, but they would only end up defending their children, and regardless of how calm we’d be, our action could be construed more like harassment than what they’re daughters are doing. As you’d probably expect for something like this, the police won’t get involved, either. So all she can do is block or hide (i.e. diminish her only presence)."

Waaaaait ... so you didn't even try doing those things?

Removing her from the social media is an ok move but "looking" into the future for the possible outcomes is weird. You are not Doctor Strange after all

@RabidCanuck It's awful what those people are doing to your daughter. I can't understand being so relentlessly stuck on something like that, why won't they just leave her alone? It baffles me that the police won't help.