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Yorumi

Yorumi

Male, 30, United States

Joined:
Fri 7th June, 2013

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Yorumi

#1

Yorumi commented on Reaction: Nintendo's Drop in Momentum Is A Big...:

@Bolt_Strike markets grow and shrink all the time. The good businesses survive. Keep in mind we're still talking about a system projected to sell 67mil units by 2015.

The thing with buttons is they don't make sense on a phone, and if we get to the point where they do nintendo might as well just allow their portable to make calls. Overall there's a lot of myth built up about the mobile markets that just simply isn't true at this point in time. Could it change? Of course markets are always changing. There's a reason the various android market at home devices arn't exactly burning up the market.

We've been hearing since before the 3ds launched that no one would buy portable game systems because of smart phones, and yet it's still projected to sell 70mil units, and it still has between 2 and 4 years of life. It could easily pass the 100mil mark in a supposedly dying market. Remember a few years ago when facebook games were going to completely kill the traditional gaming market and how well that all worked out? Quality control is always an issue but it's apples and oranges. The shovelware on the wiiU looks like downright masterpieces compared to quite literally 90%+ of the mobile games.

Finally keep in mind we have numerous developers who have games on mobile and console markets mentioning how they perform much better on console markets.

There's going to be a portable market certainly for the foreseeable future. Remember we'll be 10 years or more down the road when the successor to the 3ds has finished it's life.

Yorumi

#2

Yorumi commented on Reaction: Nintendo's Drop in Momentum Is A Big...:

@Bolt_Strike their games still sell like crazy, it's just the consoles that don't. I actually don't even think the portable market will disappear it's just removing the more casual players from it and shrinking a bit. They're never going to make a phone with buttons for gaming and they're generally going to lag behind portables in power.

Things can always change but keep in mind right now in the mobile markets you have to shift through tens of thousands of games to find one that's barely passable. Most are very short burst type games with very little depth. There's more quality games released for any portable in about 3 months than have likely ever been released on the entire mobile market.

As long as there are true gamers with a strong passion for games the portable market isn't going anywhere.

Yorumi

#3

Yorumi commented on Reaction: Nintendo's Drop in Momentum Is A Big...:

@Caryslan I still think there's a lot to lose by giving up entirely on home console games. That's why I think it would be good for them to make pc games and then continue to make portable games. Splatoon for example isn't realistically possible on the 3ds, and is likely only going to be partially possible on the next portable. The new zelda and X also can't really be done on a portable.

The thing is the sales of their games are tied directly to the install base. Believe it or not there are plenty of sony/ms fans that want to play nintendo games they just don't see the value in the system. It's easy to understand I'm sure anyone can find games on thoes systems they'd like to play but not enough to go out and buy a whole system for it so you just live without it. If they're not making the console though and just making pc games it takes the pressure off trying to push console sales. That way they can focus on the portable and still have some of the big games in the works. Games like 3d zeldas, 3d metroids, and monolith's works need to be a home console or pc.

It's kind of moot at this point cause one way or another they're going to make a successor to the wiiU. They do need to figure out the home console market though cause what they're doing just isn't working. I was hoping it wasn't but it's looking like the wii was definitely a fluke. Niche markets are fine but it's hard to pay $300 for zelda, monolith, and a bunch of sequels to games that are mostly unchanged.

Yorumi

#4

Yorumi commented on Reaction: Nintendo's Drop in Momentum Is A Big...:

@AJ_Lethal well my idea of the hybrid is more to have two consoles that run the same games. The more powerful one loads different shaders, models, and textures. Even then it's more about the plausibility of it more than anything.

What I would personally like to see is nintendo give up making home consoles and do only portables. For their home console games just make them all for pc. I of course know how unrealistic it is to think that will happen but the absolutely need to find a way to make their home consoles more valuable.

Yorumi

#5

Yorumi commented on Reaction: Nintendo's Drop in Momentum Is A Big...:

@FragRed Due to the way modern 3d programing works you could actually achieve some fairly impressive results with a truly hybrid portable/home system. By merely changing the shaders in a program you can radically improve and change the entire look of a 3d scene. If you combine that with higher quality models and higher res textures stored with the game(or available for download as an add on) you can achieve some fairly incredible scaling.

That's all not to say you can achieve truly the same thing as a made specifically for a home console but I think you'd be quite amazed at the results.

Power has always been a red herring. Systems like the wii, ps1, ds, 3ds, gameboy and others offer strong counter examples to the notion that you need a powerful console to sell well.

Yorumi

#6

Yorumi commented on Reaction: Nintendo's Drop in Momentum Is A Big...:

@Bolt_Strike yeah this year will be interesting. I think smash is going to be the final test. If 3dworld, mk8, and then smash can't push a lot of consoles at christmas zelda isn't going to either.

To me the bigger goal needs to be inspiring confidence more than saving the wiiU. What worries me, even though it's still a ways off is that a lot of even nintendo fans have to be questioning why they'd buy the wiiU successor. Do I really want to buy a new console for mostly similar sequels to games I already have?

@IceClimbers I've been saying they need to invest heavily in promising studios and create another, or better multiple new Rares.

Yorumi

#7

Yorumi commented on Reaction: Nintendo's Drop in Momentum Is A Big...:

@WillMelnyk I'm not going to go full on doom and gloom but generally speaking people have just been pushing the goal post back since the wiiU launched. Just wait till feb then sales will pick up, just wait till summer, just wait till fall, just wait till mk8, etc. When smash fails to move millions of consoles it'l lbe wait till 2015, when that fails to push millions it'l lbe wait till e3, then wait till 2016 etc.

Like I said I'm not saying it's all over and they should just give up, I'm actually excited for some of the games coming. It's just at this point the wiiU is unlikely to even match the GC in sales and the goal posts are going to keep getting pushed back until it's successor is announced.

Yorumi

#8

Yorumi commented on Reaction: Nintendo's Drop in Momentum Is A Big...:

@Bolt_Strike nintendo will adapt one way or another. They've been around 130 years so they're not going anywhere. The biggest problem with a dedicated gaming device is not so much that people don't want it it's that it's just becoming increasingly unnecessary. Computers are much cheaper and much more user friendly than they were before. Heck even wine on linux and mac is becoming increasingly hassle free.

Most indie games can be run on a toaster, and actually replicating the wiiU's graphical level in a pc isn't terribly difficult for the average consumer. Even the ps4/one isn't that bad either.

When you consider that most people probably see a relatively small number of games they really want on each console and you just start really wondering why you need to buy 3 expensive consoles to get the few games you really want. You can also get a pretty beefy pc for that price. I'm even pretty hardcore in the number of games I purchase and I'm even looking at it saying ok I want jrpgs from the playstation, smash,zelda,xenoblade and pokemon from nintendo and as far as much haves go that's about it. How much easier it would all be if those were just pc games and I didn't need to buy all the hardware.

Anyway point of all that was it's becoming increasingly difficult to justify the purchase of a dedicated console over a pc and I think the markets are beginning to reflect that. I don't know if dedicated consoles will ever actually go away but it really would be nice if they did.

Yorumi

#9

Yorumi commented on Looks Like You Can Only Install 300 Games And ...:

@Drac_Mazoku if the issue is what I think it is it probably means they arn't storing and loading data properly in the OS and it could be fixed with a patch. It basically sounds like the data access time grows too large after a point so they just capped the data in memory. That's a crude solution to the problem but one generally frowned up in computer science. What it should be doing is loading only what's visible on screen, plus a few extra in each direction. Then as the screen scrolls you unload data off screen and load new data in the direction it's scrolling.

Yorumi

#10

Yorumi commented on Reaction: Nintendo's Drop in Momentum Is A Big...:

@Bolt_Strike well as far as pc goes nintendo could make that transition with ease they'd just have to decide they want to do it. If they wanted to maintain complete control over their store they'd just have to make a steam like interface for the eshop, keep the nnid and that would be it. It won't happen any time soon though, at a minimum the wiiU's successor is going to need to sell as poorly for them to even consider it, and I don't even really think they'd consider it then.

Yorumi

#11

Yorumi commented on Looks Like You Can Only Install 300 Games And ...:

@Unca_Lz well it is almost certainly a programing decision but it's also generally bad practice to do that. Since there's only a few icons on screen at one time there's absolutely no reason to load them all at once. There's also folders and those absolutely shouldn't be loaded until accessed. Since the number is 300 and not 255 it's not an addressing issue, and the system has to have a virtual memory system. Ultimately it just makes it a strange and rather bad thing to do.

Yorumi

#12

Yorumi commented on Looks Like You Can Only Install 300 Games And ...:

That's generally why you don't load everything at once and things like virtual memory were created. It's not really hard to do a little default icon and load/unload them as they scroll near the screen. On the one hand 300 is harder to reach but they've also been pushing the eshop more heavily. When you factor in things like VC and the smaller download only titles it becomes more feasible.

A pretty big rule in programing is to future proof programs and not set hard coded limits on things because you never know what will be standard in the future. I'm sure the next system will have higher limits but as you start transferring things forward it becomes a lot easier to hit limits too. It's not the end of the world but it's kind of odd and rather unnecessary.

Yorumi

#14

Yorumi commented on Reaction: Nintendo's Drop in Momentum Is A Big...:

My fear with the wiiU is we're going to get our 2015 games and then basically have a drought until the system dies. Keep in mind 2015 is more than halfway through a typical console life and we're just then getting something that looks like a decent line up. There's not going to be something like a smash/xenoblade/zelda at e3 2015. If anything big is shown it's likely to be a late 2016, early 2017 release. By then it's mostly going to be the console's last push.

Yorumi

#15

Yorumi commented on Giana Sisters Developer Under Fire Over Diesel...:

@mike_intv This is mostly fairly standard trademark stuff. When it comes to trademarks essentially you have to defend it or lose it. Companies just establish a history of defending their trademarks so that when it's really important they don't lose it from lack of defense in the past. It's why bethesda brought their case for scrolls and other such things happen. It's not really about winning the case but just showing they're actively defending their trademark.

Yorumi

#16

Yorumi commented on Nintendo Goes Download-Only With The 2014 Club...:

@Garuu-Popka " It is if you get an allowance and dont have to worry about life."

Or you have a full time job and proper budget. Not everyone who's older than a child is destitute. For some it's hard for some it's not it all depends on the person. It was way harder for me to get games when I was 10 than now when I'm 30.

Yorumi

#18

Yorumi commented on Nintendo Goes Download-Only With The 2014 Club...:

@lerobadey giving more options is fine, but the group most likely to already have these games is the very group they're offering them to. Even if they offered one more option of say $10 eshop credit you'd probably eliminate 90% of the unhappiness.

@SethNintendo If you're tying to give them real feedback it takes a bit longer, but I'm not really acting like they're asking us to do a full time job or anything. I'm just pointing out that the people acting like there's absolutely nothing involved at all in getting a platinum reward are a bit misguided.

While we can argue all day about whether people should expect a reward, nintendo themselves created the expectation and this year managed is pretty poorly. It is kind of interesting to watch on the one hand you have their fairly genious moves at e3 and on the other you have a pretty boneheaded move here. It's not the end of world, and people shouldn't be acting like it is, but you have to admit they've done something fairly wrong when this many people are upset.

Yorumi

#19

Yorumi commented on Nintendo Goes Download-Only With The 2014 Club...:

@KingCreezy I don't believe anyone said you should be paid for them, just that many places actually pay for doing surveys. In many free mmos with a cash shop you can do surveys for about anything, it's actually possible to make hundreds of dollars worth of shop credit doing them in the right game.

The point is when everyone is saying "omg it's free" eh kind of. They want to make it out like nintendo just out of the pure kindness of their hearts offered these items for absolutely nothing. It's mostly contingent on spending time on their site performing an activity you can get paid for elsewhere. So it's not exactly free, and it's not like people are complaining about a free gift, it's that they're dangerously close to weaseling out on a promise.

Yorumi

#20

Yorumi commented on Nintendo Goes Download-Only With The 2014 Club...:

@JellySplat you shouldn't really be spending the money for a platinum reward in the first place. People put them up on ebay and even if they were $100 there it would be cheaper. You should buy the games cause you want the game, plat status comes if you just wanted that many games to begin with, shouldn't go out of your way for it.

Yorumi

#21

Yorumi commented on Nintendo Goes Download-Only With The 2014 Club...:

@True_Hero no one is saying they lost $600 they're saying they spend $600 on nintendo products, and filled out surveys(something you can get paid real money for) and to people with a lot of games(perhaps someone who spent $600+ on games in a year) they potentially have no reward at all.

They're dangerously close to having broken a promise of a reward so it shouldn't be hard to see how people would feel pretty upset about it. Specially since historically the rewards have been shown to be exclusive items you can't get other places.

Yorumi

#22

Yorumi commented on Nintendo Goes Download-Only With The 2014 Club...:

@Unca_Lz it's not entitlement. NIntendo years ago told it's loyal customers they'd offer rewards for buying their products and providing feedback. They've since established that said rewards are various items that can't be gotten anywhere else and the members don't have. Furthermore the surveys themselves are time and many places will actually pay you real money for filling out surveys.

This year nintendo said "meh many of you don't get your promised reward" and people are likewise upset. It's not entitlement to say you promised us these rewards and now you're coming dangerously close to weaseling out on that promise.

Yorumi

#23

Yorumi commented on Nintendo Goes Download-Only With The 2014 Club...:

@Hy8ogen while it's true this stuff is free, ACK's response does kind of highlight how nintendo can squander a lot of good will. When it comes to platinum we're talking about people who spent around $400 on games for a nintendo system. Those are some pretty spenders and loyal fans, and nintendo has decided that at least some number of them arn't getting any reward at all.

Given that a lot of these games have been offered as monthly rewards for coins, and platinum members have a lot of coins chances are even greater that they already have the games. Imagamerboi's suggestion is actually quite an amazing one the more I think about it. A demo of smash for platinum members wouldn't cost them any more than this, and the free press they'd get out of it for the rest of the year leading up to the launch of the game would priceless. Players would be praising them, it'd be streaming on twitch, sites like this would be writing articles about etc. Instead you have a general feeling of disappointment.

Granted I know that suggestion is entirely in the realm of fantasy land but it's just not a good idea to create a level of disappointment.

Yorumi

#24

Yorumi commented on Nintendo Goes Download-Only With The 2014 Club...:

@Imagamerboi that would have been cool. Another idea i just had with smash launching in the winter and physical rewards usually taking that long to show up it would have been really cool if they allowed us to select an amiibo figure. Could have the delivery arrive just ahead of smash U launch to drum up hype.

Yorumi

#26

Yorumi commented on Nintendo Goes Download-Only With The 2014 Club...:

@paburrows I'm mixed on earthbound. It's not bad by any means, but the story is kind of weak and disjointed, and parts of the game feel kind of tedious. I think it's overrated in the sense that people make much more out of it than it really is but that by no means makes it a terrible game(I know people tend to use overrated to attack a game and that's not my intention).

If you got nothing else you're dying to play I'd get it, and it is considered an snes classic. I'm mostly just in the middle, didn't hate it didn't love it, got some entertainment out of it so I can't complain about buying it.

Yorumi

#27

Yorumi commented on Nintendo Goes Download-Only With The 2014 Club...:

@World well it's not even one specific. Last year I got the poster yet, it wasn't that I was sitting there all year saying "oh I gotta get platinum to get a pikmin poster." I didn't specifically go for it, I just saw the posters and thought they'd look really good on the wall framed. A zelda symphony cd would get a lot of use.

The problem like I said is most people already have any of these they want, specially since they're $5 games. Most of the games have been available for years. I know they don't have to give us anything but these are their highest paying customers and it just has this feeling of emptying out a bin of ancient games that everyone already has. I don't have every game on the list, and don't want the ones I don't have, but there are some people who literally can't get anything on the list because they already have it all. At a bare minimum they should have done a timed exclusive release.

Yorumi

#28

Yorumi commented on Nintendo Goes Download-Only With The 2014 Club...:

@World it's not so much that people buy stuff just to get a reward, it's just compared to past years it kind of feels like they just emptied out the clearance bin. Most of the games are 30 year old nes games, and anyone with a decent wii VC library might have even bought these years ago.

In years past they've had unique rewards you couldn't get and some quality items. This year it's like "eh here's a bunch of, mostly ancient, games most people probably already have if they really wanted them anyway."

Yorumi

#29

Yorumi commented on Nintendo Goes Download-Only With The 2014 Club...:

That is a huge disappointment. Last year I get some beautiful posters I have framed an on my wall. A bunch of $5 games any of which I want I already have. I know it's difficult to complain about free stuff but at least offer some exclusive rewards so people who have them all already have something to get.

Yorumi

#32

Yorumi commented on First impressions: HD Brawling with Super Smas...:

@NINTENCHIP Perhaps you could take a moment and understand what's being said? To make the point more clear, try this, clearly the new features in MK8 are being absolutely rejected by MK fans and it's the worst MK ever made. The sales of the game are absolutely terrible compared to MKwii. It lost around 80% of their fans, clearly nintendo horribly screwed up making that game. BTW that follows exactly 100% the logic you're using with brawl.

Edit: Likewise smash 4 on wiiU is very likely to be the absolute worse selling smash of all time. To beat even 64 it's going to need to achieve an attach rate higher than melee. If it achieves brawls attach rate it will mean 80-90% of the "expanded fanbase" did not buy the next version of the game.

" The complaint isn't that skilled players win. It's that the things one had to master in Melee to be "good" in it were extremely demanding for the type of game it was."

The problem is you're defining "good" as being on the level of a competitive player. It wasn't until a few years ago I even knew most of the things existed in the game and I still had tremendous fun in party modes, lots of items, fun stages, pokeball battles etc. I was good enough to beat 3 max difficulty AI's on a team vs me.

If all you want is to be on a competitive level and you're not dedicated enough to master a few techniques you don't have the dedication to be competitive. Making the game easier just places an artificial skill cap and telling people with actual dedication to the game "it doesn't matter if you practice more there's an artificial skill cap and you won't get better after that."

If you're so obsessed with the fact that people who actually practice a lot beat you, then use the handicap system, play in party modes, add AI's to your team or whatever else. But as for me I sure know I had a tremendous amount of fun in melee without ever knowing any advanced techniques existed. In fact I rarely ever even played with all items turned off. I also love watching competitive players and don't want to see them artificially limited, the characters need to be balanced but after that it shoudl be like any other real sport, the only limits are on whatever the human body is capable of doing.

Yorumi

#33

Yorumi commented on First impressions: HD Brawling with Super Smas...:

@NINTENCHIP Because it under performed expectations. You're trying to argue that because brawl sold more than melee it's direct proof that snubbing the competitive community made it sell better. The sales trajectory of smash was already such that a new version could be expected to sell more than a previous. Smash 64 had an attach rate of rought 17%, melee 32%, brawl 11%. Smash 64 sold roughly 60% as much as mk64 sold, melee sold a tiny bit more, just call it 100% of MKDD, brawl sold 30% of mkwii. MKWii sold about 3.5times as much as mk64(wii sold roughly 3.5 times as many consoles as n64) brawl sold barely 2x smash 64, roughly 8 mil short of expectations. You're trying to directly attribute an increase in total units to design choices when by any kind of comparable measure brawl severely under performed.

"So you haven't noticed how fighting game design has turned to ease their difficulty curves for newcomers for the past half a decade?" Wait point out for me please where I said I like the casualization of all games that they've been doing for the last decade? Furthermore your only complaint about melee is that skilled players win, and that is better solved by proper matchmaking only which pleases everyone. All your solutions revolve around snubbing the competitive community.

Yorumi

#34

Yorumi commented on First impressions: HD Brawling with Super Smas...:

@NINTENCHIP well first of all as far as expand the sales base you could actually argue it failed to do so. According to vgchartz smash 64 sold 5.5mil, melee 7.07, and brawl 11mil. Considering the wii sold 5 times as many consoles as the gamecube, there's that much more word of mouth and brawl didn't even achieve twice the sales, as a propotion of consoles sold melee went up over n64, but brawl went WAY down over melee.

Compare for example to mario kart, mkwii sold nearly 4 times as much as 64 and the wii sold roughly 4x as many consoles as n64. Consider also that double dash sold less than 64, which makes sense considering there were fewer gamecubes sold and thus a lower population of people to buy the game. Melee however, actually increased sales over 64 despite being on a console with fewer owners. Its hard to even argued that MK is a more popular franchise considering DD sold less than melee. Point is if we're going for sales relative to install base the case is much stronger that melee did more to expand the fanbase than brawl. I generally don't care about game sales but you keep bringing up the point and I just don't think you understand how unfavorable the comparison is for brawl.

As far as skill, you're option is pretty much either have skill or make it a button mash. When I lose my first thought isn't "make the game easier so I can win with less effort" it's "oh that was good can you teach me how you did that?" and the practice like crazy to get better.

Yorumi

#35

Yorumi commented on First impressions: HD Brawling with Super Smas...:

@NINTENCHIP You're trying to have it both ways, it's can't be about skill and not about skill at the same time. If it's all about skill then the best player wins every time, if it's not about skill then the best player isn't guaranteed to win. You've essentially contradicted yourself because you're complaining that the most skilled player in melee always wins, and then said the most skilled player wins in brawl too. So what's the problem with melee exactly?

The only way to bring vastly different skill levels together is to actively punish the more skilled player. He's got to play with some sort of handicap, whether hardcoded into the game or self imposed, thus a punishment. Realistically the only way to do this is add random chance of failure in one form or another.

It just really kind of seems to me more like people hate melee out of spite more than any kind of empirical data.

Yorumi

#36

Yorumi commented on First impressions: HD Brawling with Super Smas...:

@NINTENCHIP Well first off sales are an absolutely unfair comparison, you're trying to compare a console that has an install base of a little over 20 million to one with an install base over 100 million.

As for the rest, I guess what that's just it the casual crowd believes melee didn't punish skilled players enough for their dedication? I guess I just view it differently, skilled players should win, and brawl doesn't really close the gap at all. It just gives a player with a little more skill a slight disadvantage. To me when I win I want to know it was because of my skill. If I found out the only reason I ever won was because of a flip of a coin I'd be pretty pissed. You just can't take a professional sports player and put him on the same level as a 5 year old.

The other problem I have is these games have handicaps you can select to put on. I just don't like the notion that every single last competitive player should be punished for dedication just because some casuals don't want to take the time to set up a handicap. If winning is really that important to someone they need to put forth the effort to get better instead of begging for handouts.

Yorumi

#37

Yorumi commented on First impressions: HD Brawling with Super Smas...:

@NINTENCHIP bashing a game isn't narcissistic, though more like elitist. Semantics aside I'm still trying to figure out what was so bad about melee in terms of casual players. I feel like people on both sides tend to just talk past each other. We often seem to cite advanced techniques to none of them would have even known existed. Even someone using them on you as a casual player you'd probably never know they did it.

I just feel like both games get presented falsely. Brawl is as worse than it actually is and melee is presented as some sort of hardcore super high barrier to entry game.

I'll wrap this up with this. The way I see it, a game like melee would please both crowds. The competitive ones get a tight offensive game, and the casuals get the typical party game with items and everything else creating mayhem. And look I am seriously looking for a discussion about this what really was so wrong with melee from a casual's perspective? I want to know cause I can't see it myself, I played the game casually for years and never had any issues with it.

Yorumi

#38

Yorumi commented on It Doesn't Look Like We'll Be Seing Sega Games...:

@Anguspuss I don't believe there's a working emulator for wiiU mastersystem/genesis so that's where a lot of the cost comes in. Beyond that as much as we all love vc games look at it from their perspective. Even with a working emulator they still need to spend time getting each game working, it's a small cost but it's there. Then they've got to talk to nintendo and get it put in the shop, that takes some time(and remember time is money for a business), when the game sells nintendo is going to take a cut.

Considering how big games sell chances are most VC games arn't seeing even 100k downloads. Even with 100k downloads by the time you pay everyone and nintendo gets their cut I'd be surprised if the company makes $30k. That seems like a lot to you and me but not really for a multimillion dollar company.

I want more VC games too but the reality is each individual game, save a few huge ones like mario 3 for example, doesn't make a lot of business sense.

Yorumi

#39

Yorumi commented on First impressions: HD Brawling with Super Smas...:

@midnafanboy it has nothing at all to do with pride or not wanting to see your opinions. It's about wanting to see a place where gamers can all enjoy the things they love without insulting, attacking, dehumanizing each other. Flaming people in a thread for something none of them did just because someone else in an entirely different section of the internet isn't productive. That's like going to find someone unrelated sitting in their home and chewing them out cause someone else cut you off on the road.

You've got jaxon admitting he doesn't read posts and just blindly attacking people in no way based on what they've said, and you attacking people here who havn't done what you accuse them of. What's the point other than intentionally trying to start a fight? None of this is me trying to play any kind of victem it's me saying show some maturity and treat people with respect when posting.

Yorumi

#40

Yorumi commented on First impressions: HD Brawling with Super Smas...:

I just don't get it, you come into a thread where most everyone is being rational, call competitive players whiners and say you're not insulting them. Would you not consider it insulting if someone turned your own words around and said "I'm sick of you coming here to do nothing but whine all the time about competitive players. You just go all over the internet and whine all the time, face it competitive players exist get used to it and stop being so annoying with your whining." Everyone on this site would be right to chastise someone doing that.

I just don't get all the class warfare. Do two wrongs make a right? Is it right to show up to a comment thread and call a bunch of people whiners when they are doing no such thing just because someone somewhere else on the internet did something you don't like? Is it not better to bring people together with a common enjoyment of a game rather than seeking to drive a wedge between them and get people to attack each other?

What purpose does it server other than to make the internet and this site a more hostile place?

Yorumi

#41

Yorumi commented on First impressions: HD Brawling with Super Smas...:

@midnafanboy I don't see anyone whining that's the thing, they're just stating their opinion. Part of this goes back to my earlier question for simple purposes a thought experiment, what would be so horrible if the game ended up being a melee clone mechanicall? Were casuals not able to play melee? Was it somehow not a party game?

I seriously want to know cause you're creating all this class warfare and for what exactly? Why so angry and insulting to people just expressing their opinions about a game's design? What I see in this comment section is mostly people talking about why they liked melee, what compromises their willing to make, stating they understand the casual crowd and understanding, and stating they don't believe the competitive crowd should be catered to. In return they're mostly getting hate back. Why?

Yorumi

#42

Yorumi commented on First impressions: HD Brawling with Super Smas...:

@midnafanboy, @SockoMario I'm kind of curious what the competitive players did that was so aggregeous. With the exception of AdmiralThrawn, I don't see anything negative being said of less competitive playes, there's even people saying despite wanting the game to focus more on the competitive they don't think the competitive players should be specifically catered too.

Why do more serious gamers seem to elicit such negativity from people for simply expressing their opinions of what they like and don't like in a game? Why does there even need to be all this class warfare in gaming anyway?

Yorumi

#43

Yorumi commented on First impressions: HD Brawling with Super Smas...:

@Caryslan I don't think people are trashing the game, and I also don't think the comparison to the launch of melee is fair either. Melee launched in an era where the internet was still a relatively new thing, at that point most people had probably never seen competitive smash.

Let me make this clear I'm not saying we need a clone of melee, but for sake of a tought experiment what exactly would be wrong with that? Melee was a party game every bit as much as brawl was, it had plenty of items and general mayhem, a 7 year old could figure out how to play in a matter of minutes etc.

When a common response to the criticisms is "well it's not as bad as brawl" that to me kind of implies there's something better out there. I don't want to try to portray Sakurai in a hugely negative light, but considering there's a pretty good consensus going on which version of smash is the worst that should have been a bit of a wake up call. I don't know the man obviously but I do kind of get the feeling he resents the competitive scene and resents the fact that broadly speaking the smash community doens't agree with his visions. I'm still expecting a great game, I just think it's weird to compromise with a game that wasn't entirely well received.

Yorumi

#44

Yorumi commented on First impressions: HD Brawling with Super Smas...:

I know you don't read these but I was asking for an apology for you making false accusations about me making personal attacks. Something you have done to me, which I why I specifically asked for the quote, to prove you are outright lying about me. I'm still waiting for that btw.

Also for everyone else, no I won't be continuing this beyond this post. I'll only be posting again if I get a sincere apology or have something more to contribute related that's on topic with the article. I just do not tollerate someone lying about me and personally attacking my character.

Yorumi

#45

Yorumi commented on First impressions: HD Brawling with Super Smas...:

@JaxonH point out in direct quotes in my first response to you where I made any kind of personal attack and wasn't merely responding to what you said with my own evidence and opion. If you cannot directly quote a personal attack on you in that post, and I know you can't, I want an appology now.

You've been attacking my character this entire time while admitting you arn't even reading what I'm saying. So I'm owed an appology right now.

Yorumi

#46

Yorumi commented on First impressions: HD Brawling with Super Smas...:

@JaxonH ok it's become obvious you're not intending to read what people are posting and instead want to just engage in ad hominem attacks. I have said not once, but TWICE now that I am not a competitive smash player. You're making these assumptions so you can lob attacks at people. That's why I believe you have some sort of resentment against all competitive players. You just assume things about people, and then even put words in their mouths they never said, in order to attack them.

Not only do you said I've proclaimed myself a competitive player, which I have not, and even said the opposite. But you also say people are demanding things when all they're doing is stating their opinion. You seem to only be posting here anymore to make false claims about people and attack them.

Hopefully others will read when you have not and see you for what you are in this comment section.

Yorumi

#47

Yorumi commented on First impressions: HD Brawling with Super Smas...:

@JaxonH oh gee I don't know how about:
"instead of playing backseat developer and dictating what he should or shouldn't do." So basically stop giving your opinions of the game.

And then in this post you start trying to group people up to play some sort of class warfare card with ad hominem attacks like: "Man, competitive players sure love playing the victim don't they! " I find it intersting that you show such hostility toward competitive players with that retort specially since I've said in my first post I'm not a competitive player. I've mostly played smash against the AI and friends, never online, and never against anyone more skilled than my immediate friends(hint none of us are all that skilled). You're using your own bias against people to make false claims about someone so you can portray them a certain way.

I've never once shown any hostility toward casual players or tell them they shouldn't voice their opinions, how could I, I am one. You should stick to the facts instead of telling people to go make their own game if they have an opinion. No one is capable of dictating to nintendo what they show do and that's a complete straw man argument. Opinions are not dictates.

Yorumi

#48

Yorumi commented on First impressions: HD Brawling with Super Smas...:

@JaxonH So basically people should give their opinions, shouldn't let nintendo know what they like and don't like etc? No one should ever voice any opinion over what a company is doing with a game. That kind of arrogance is the very thing that got nintendo into trouble in the first place. Furthermore not everyone has hundreds of millions of dollars to start a game company, hire hundreds of workers and spend years developing a AAA game. The changes being made between brawl and this new smash are a direct result of fan feedback, and now you're basically saying "you arn't welcome here if you have any feedback."

Yorumi

#49

Yorumi commented on First impressions: HD Brawling with Super Smas...:

@JaxonH you can't just chalk everything up to bugs. For example landing lag, something they're specifically tinkering with. It's clearly something they decided to add to the game. Furthermore a producer who does not learn from what worked in a game, no matter how accidental, isn't a good producer. That doesn't mean the formula can't be tinkered with at all it's just many things that became standard features in games were never initially intentional.

The thing that irks people with smash is brawl was nintendo essentially saying "we believe skill should not play a role in any kind of competitive gaming at any level." If Sakurai thought tripping was good game design that kind of diminishes his god like status far to many attribute to him.

As kirby pointed out, did any of the things in melee prevent anyone from enjoying the game? Nope. However, the same cannot be said of brawl, as anyone trying to get better was instantly smacked in the face with the brick wall of punishing skilled players. Essentially the better you got as the game the more it punished you. That's not good design, that's just frustration to anyone playing the game above a button mashing level. What's worse is it doesn't even achieve it's stated goal of closing the gap between skilled and unskilled players.

Yorumi

#50

Yorumi commented on First impressions: HD Brawling with Super Smas...:

The one thing I would kind of disagree with is this:

"It’s nowhere near as complex as Super Smash Bros. Melee was and thankfully so, as there are plenty of regular players out there who will want to enjoy this too."

Melee may have had complexity under the hood but it was still a 3 button game. I've never been at high levels of competitive play and I had no problem enjoying melee. I've never seen one single thing in melee that "excludes regular players," unless we some how have this notion that they should be playing at the highest levels of competitive play. Really pokemon is far far more complex under the hood and that never stopped any regular players from enjoying it. It just gives something more for those who want to go deeper to enjoy.

I'm just saying that just because something has complexity at a level you'll never see shouldn't stop anyone from enjoying it.