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Thu 28th Jul 2011

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laughingman0 commented on Nintendo Opens Legal Proceedings Against HackY...:

1. That's what I said. ROMs are not available to the public, that doesn't mean they don't exist.

2. There is nothing that Sony should have to 'pay' for. That's just a typical justification from a pirate.

3. You asked for an example of a legal site selling illegal items. Done.

4. Yes honesty brings more sales. R4 cards don't and honesty has no bearing on legality.

5. Yes there are people who don't know exist, that doesn't make it legal or good. Why would Nintendo spend money developing for old systems? You still want GBA games and SNES games being made? You are talking rubbish. And that doesn't change the fact that the R4 was being used for piracy in 2007 during the DS' prime.

6. It being a more convenient option doesn't make it legal or good.

7. Haha, you're so desperate that you need to focus on a typo!"

"Hey, all of my counters were short and easy to think of." And you managed to raise 0 valid points. It's always short and easy to counter your points because they are absolute rubbish.

"TROLOLOLOLOLOL!" Thanks for admitting it.



laughingman0 commented on Nintendo Opens Legal Proceedings Against HackY...:

Yes, I'm laughing at your blindness to any of the negative effects of R4 cards (the name laughingman0 has no negative connotations).

1. Yes you need a ROM and he clearly several in the video. They aren't available to the public as i have already said.

2. There is clear data to say that the number of illegal downloads for DS games is very high and PSP games even higher. There are cases of PSP game with less sales than illegal downloads, another fact I have already said and you have chosen to ignore. It is you who is either an idiot or a troll if you are trying to say that DS and PSP piracy (well known as a big problem) is somehow such a small thing as to be insignificant.

3. Amazon doesn't sell R4 cards new, the only time I saw that it got pulled pretty quick. And as to illegal items being sold on a legal site? Let's look at Amazon again. Illegal bootleg DVD:

4. What you do with something has no bearing on if it is illegal or not. To the people who use flash cards for homebrew in the US (where they are currently legal) good for them. That doesn't change the fact that most people use it for piracy.

5. My point is that a) the 'small' amount of people who know about it have had a big effect and b) how many people know about it has no bearing on it's legality .

6. Drop the fallacy that the DS was targeted after it was dropped. The R4 came out in 2007 and was used for rampant piracy in the DS' prime. Also drop the fallacy that these sites buy anywhere near the amount of legitimate games that they illegally distribute. I guess you think they should still be making GBA games and Gameboy games? New system, new media. The DS can't even handle 3DS games so how could they release DS versions?

6. Yes the main use for R4 cards is illegal downloads. There is some cool homebrew stuff out there but it;s a mere silver lining to the mass piracy that the card allows.

If there was/is a card out there that allows for homebrew but not for piracy then that would be great.

7. Wasting you time? Haha. You can decide to respond or not, that's your choice (none of my time has been wasted).and no I won't "keep my opinion", I'll express it. The official companies are handling the issue and it will be interesting to see what line they draw in the US. The same as in the UK, an opposite stance or somewhere inbetween.



laughingman0 commented on Nintendo Opens Legal Proceedings Against HackY...:


It was piracy that hurt the PSP not people buying the games and then using backups. The hardware fault was fixed on the revised models and even before then it wasn't as bad as the picture you're trying to paint.

You are wrong about 3DS ROMS there is no way to use them. The hack that allowed it was blocked. Why would they be distributed with no way to use them?

You are wrong about ROMS coming from purchases. Just because a few sites buy a copy that doesn't change the fact that they then distribute it to thousands of others for free. The physical cart or the official download come from purchases, the ROM doesn't have to. If you actually think that the amount of sales to create ROMS are equal to or more than legitimate sales then you really are an idiot. Even if every site bought a copy (which they don't) that would be what, 50 sales? An insignificant number in terms of software sales and nowhere near the number that then get downloaded for free. In some cases with PSP games the illegal downloads exceeded the legal sales, not “loads more purchases” at all.

Nintendo moved on to new carts for their new system. This has nothing to do with the fact that there were ROMs for DS games years before the 3DS came out. Nintendo DS carts were targeted right from the launch of the DS, not after Nintendo “abandoned” anything.

Illegal in most countries is not the same as not illegal in any way.

They aren't well known... That's probably because they are dodgy carts that aren't available through mainstream retail and pretty much require illegal downloads to be of any use. What's your point?

“And just for the record, the hacking of the Wii was illegal. Flashcarts, not so much. ” You just admitted they are illegal in most countries. And in the US it is now pending the result of the lawsuit against hackyourconsole .com.



laughingman0 commented on Nintendo Opens Legal Proceedings Against HackY...:


Yes the Sony PSP which was hacked and used for piracy, not because of the UMD slot. As for there being no 3DS ROMS out there, false. There is no way to put them on an R4 card and play them and yes that does mean more money for Nintendo because it means pirates can't download and play the games for free, they have to actually buy the games. That's a great point to make AGAINST a 3DS R4 card.

You said: "R4 and flashcarts are NOT in any way illegal!" - FALSE! It's illegal to sell them in the UK and many other locations.

You said: "Nobody complains when people put backup games on PSP systems." - FALSE! Piracy had a huge negative impact on the PSP and Sony did complain about it.

You said: "ROMs come straight from the purchase!" - FALSE! ROMs are downloaded from the internet, no purchase required.

You said: "If Nintendo carries on with Nintendo DS and 3DS business, that's more purchases from the people who emulate the software." - FALSE! It is the exact opposite. Without a 3DS R4 card everybody who wants to play has to buy the game. With a 3DS R4 card many people will download without paying.

You said: "As for your point, do you know how many 3DS ROMs are out there? NONE!" - FALSE! There is no way to use them yet.

You said: "And as for your name, who's laughing NOW?" - Oh I see, you're an idiot.



laughingman0 commented on Nintendo Opens Legal Proceedings Against HackY...:


Has anyone thought how they get the ROM data? Yeah, they rip it from one cartridge and then distribute it to thousands of people for free. Nintendo will not get money for it. Sony doesn't like it when people do this with the PSP. Piracy hurt the PSP in the west in a big way.

"Some flashcart users do not condone piracy but 99% of them are pirates!"




laughingman0 commented on Nintendo Opens Legal Proceedings Against HackY...:


Putting songs onto a CD or an iPod doesn't involve hacking into any hardware and circumventing any copy protection. It's not the same as an R4 card at all.

How does Apple offer the best service to people who pay?

No, it is not illegal to create a backup (create and not download). What can you then do with that backup? Anything you want? No.

Technically you have to load your backup from a physical cart because downloading backups is illegal.

There is no obligation on Nintendo's part to make homebrew available. If you want to develop for a Nintendo platform then go through the proper channels. Open source platforms allow for open development proprietary platforms do not. Nintendo make proprietary platforms. Playstation Mobile hasn't really been a success and it hasn't stopped people trying to hack their consoles. The iPhone doesn't have any means to officially support homebrew.

You don't want to carry around your DS games... So what? Nintendo may or may not make DS games available to download in the future and if they do you'll likely be asked to pay for them regardless of if you have a physical copy. Just because you want something doesn't make it right.



laughingman0 commented on Nintendo Opens Legal Proceedings Against HackY...:


Why should any hardware to facilitate back ups be legal? There is no logic to that. You are talking about a device that is designed to break through legal protection and saying it should be legal because it offers convenience? An iPod is massively different than a 3DS and a VCR is massively different than an R4 card.

"Wanting Nintendo to provide the best possible product" is not a problem. Wanting Nintendo to provide the best possible product" does not involve an R4 card.

The inconvenience of having to carry carts around with you has no bearing on the legality of breaking into the device. Either buy a case or if you want digital versions of your games then buy digital versions of your games. What is this comparison you are making with Apple?

About Ebay, again not policing a policy strongly (and they do police it when individual cases are reported but it's not actually as easy as you state because not many things are listed as being bootleg) is not the same as having an opposite policy or not having a policy at all. If they officially allowed it then they would have big legal problems (same with Amazon).



laughingman0 commented on Nintendo Opens Legal Proceedings Against HackY...:


R4 cards still work in the same way, using custom firmware to bypass copy protection. Also the thing that was made illegal was flashcards that bypass copy protection not the R4 card specifically, that is just the most well known version of such a card.

What do you mean when you say Ebay "actively allows people selling counterfeit cartridges"? They have a clear policy against it. If you're saying that they don't police that policy properly then that's a moot point.

The level design in NSMBU is actually very good and very clever, it's by far the best game in the 'New' Mario series i my opinion. I don't though how whether you like the latest Mario game or not is relevant. The same with the convenience of being able to download games.

The case of Pirate Bay is much more complex and on an entirely different issue that that of R4 flash cards so the comparison isn't really a true one.

"Producing a back up copy for personal use of a computer program." does in no way permit the use of said back up via illegal means.

Two other things about back ups are that it only permits you to create your own back ups not obtain them from a third party via download or other such means (which is how 99% of people get their back ups) and also that if you are using the back up as the primary instance then it isn't by definition a back up (although that would never stand as an argument ).



laughingman0 commented on Nintendo Opens Legal Proceedings Against HackY...:


I'm not a lawyer but I don't need to be to know about this legislation. The whole of the legislation is huge and you asked where you could see it for yourself it is for these reasons that I told you to look for yourself. If you want me to provide further samples of the legislation and how it directly applies then you can ask about a specific aspect and I'll tell you if I can.

If you wanted to see a news article stating that the R4 cart is illegal I can easily provide that although I'm sure you could have found it for yourself. From the UK national newspaper The Telegraph in 2010:
"Nintendo DS R4 cartridges ruled illegal"
"The High Court has ruled that 'game copiers', devices which can be used to store and play copied games on the Nintendo DS hand-held console, are illegal.
It means that the game copiers, known as R4 cartridges, can no longer be imported, sold or marketed in the UK. "

It is illegal to sell or import R4 cards in the UK, that is not speculation on my or anybody elses part, it was ruled in court.

Here are two relevent links to the legislation that I mentioned upon your request:

If it is not possible to back up an ACNL save at the moment then that is unfortunate. I hope Nintendo makes it possible soon.

"This is my last statement on this topic. I have spoken."

Why would this be your last statement? Why back away from the discussion?



laughingman0 commented on Nintendo Opens Legal Proceedings Against HackY...:


I have already said how there is no legitimate use. You can not use an R4 to run homebrew without circumvention of anti-copyright infringement protection. I showed you quotations from the legislation and you can look at the full legislation for yourself. The circumvention of anti-copyright infringement protection is illegal, on this the courts have decided, there is nothing to wait for. There is a reason why it is illegal to sell and to import R4 cards in the UK (for example), it has already been decided.

DCMA the legislation that you speak of does allow for the creation of backups (creation from your own source by the way and not via a third party or download which is how 99% of back ups are obtained) but it does not allow for the use of backups via the circumvention of anti-copyright infringement protection. As for "resources to the full text of DCMA" it is available in full online as is the Copyright and Related Rights Regulations 2003/Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988.

As for you question about your save game you can back up saves from downlalod versions ( I don't know if there is a legitimate way to back up saves from a cartridge.



laughingman0 commented on Nintendo Opens Legal Proceedings Against HackY...:


I assume you're joking. Something that is illegal to sell can not be legally bought. As for your "I can buy direct from manufacture in ASIA, right?" No because it is illegal to import such devices as stated in the legislation I mentioned (I only quoted a small portion that was relevant to the previous point).

The sale of legitimate copies of video games are not illegal so I don't see what your point is there. If you are referring to bootleg or otherwise illegal copies of a game then obviously that is illegal.



laughingman0 commented on Nintendo Opens Legal Proceedings Against HackY...:


That's the case in USA & the EU and the UK. The prevention of circumventing the anti-copyright infringement protection is a law not a "User Agreement". You are aware of the DMCA, I'll also point you to the Copyright and Related Rights Regulations 2003. It is made clear that device such as the R4 are illegal. Look at the following two criminal offences mentioned (as a small example):

  • A person commits an offence if manufacturing for sale or hire, importation, sale or distribution of devices or products which are primarily designed or adapted for the purpose of the circumvention of technological measures;
  • A person commits an offence if providing, promoting, advertising or marketing a service the purpose of which is to enable or facilitate the circumvention of technical measures.

So I say again, there is no legitimate legal use for an R4 card.



laughingman0 commented on Nintendo Opens Legal Proceedings Against HackY...:


One can not use an R4 card or any card of the like to run homebrew games without first circumventing the anti-copyright infringement protection that is installed on the, in this case, DS system. The process of circumventing said anti-copyright infringement protection systems is illegal. Thus there is no legitimate use for such a card. Used legally it is simply a blank card, you cannot use it for homebrew etc without using it in conjunction with illegal software and it has no other uses. Either you are using it illegally or you are not using it at all. There is no legitimate use.