@banacheck If it really went as far back as 2008 that is when Sony were still making losses on the system, but my point isn't really about rushing it to market. Its more they dived into PS4 before they wanted to. Truthfully Sony are in the worst position of the three because (as you say) Vita failed to find a healthy market at Christmas. Its going to very hard to continue pushing Vita while also releasing PS4.

I do think you are right about the overall reaction to PS4 though, by claiming people are underestimating them. But perhaps there is a good reason for that. Go back before PS3 came out and before Vita came out and you'll see pretty much every website, forum and blog out there were clapping, cheering and bellowing how these two were going to destroy their competitors. I have not seen one single site which claimed PS4 was going to do that.

IMO its not people underestimating PS4. Its that on both those occasions people overestimated Sony. So they are being more realistic and waiting to see this time.

@banacheck Well you show you are aware of this yourself. Games can be in development today and cancelled tomorrow if PS4 fails to meet their expectations.

Also for Sony being prepared, I doubt they are prepared as you think. This is why. Many employees at SCE over the years have confirmed they would like to drag PS3 on longer. They spent $5 billion on it when they originally planned to spend $1 billion. This is problem. Microsoft has long been known to have the Xbox planned for 2013. Maybe Sony have been planning PS4 for quite sometime and are more ready for launch as a system but Kaz himself said on many occasions last year they don't want to release PS4 yet. Many in Sony said that. But people won't wait for them and they know it.

PS4 is one of the most crucial launches Sony face in the history of Playstation. In essence that will make them all the more determined because now they acknowledge Microsoft as a serious competitor. PS4 is known to have been planned at the same time as Vita but lets be realistic, after all the money they lost with PS3, they don't want PS4 out yet. They just have to get it out because it will be a lot harder coming when they want it to.

@banacheck
" I've never known any console to have over 150 developers & publishers supporting any console before release"
Except most of those 150 developers are only looking at the hardware, considering releases or just playing around with it. The only ones who have games on the system are those that have announced games.

@Zyph Its actually a spiritual sequel called Shadow of the Eternals. It isn't a direct sequel. If I had to guess its their vision of what Eternal Darkness 2 would have been but because Nintendo own the name they have settled for that instead. I'm not sure how the sanity meter would fair. I'm guessing that is why its a new series and not Eternal Darkness 2.

I think that since they want exactly the same people either
A) one will do very well and the other will do terribly being abandoned to it's fate.
B) both will under-perform to publisher expectations and they will question if "next gen" is really worth it.

And lets face it, if there really was a multiplat game that some publishers expected to sell millions on Wii U I wonder how they expect games to perform on systems where third party games are known to sell much better.

In short = I'm convinced (and will remain convinced) that anybody believing BOTH systems are going to trump Wii U are extremely out of touch with reality. All other major system releases have under-performed since 3DS and I can't see this ending differently.

@Zyph Considering they have been renewing the trademark for years I think its fair to say Nintendo own it.

@hydeks If you are so appreciative of third party games on Sony systems then why did Chinatown Wars on DS sell way more then the PSP version?

Then I'll be playing completely offline.

@Royalblues I think you'll see if Insomniac ever change their mind any user here who said they don't like their games will not suddenly start caring. The reason this is bad is it reflects EA's support for the console. People who care have clearly admitted to it.

Also, anyone who really is nuts for Ratchet and Clank will go buy a PS3 because they all know that is the only place they will be able to get it.

@moroboshi Firstly, N64 and Gamecube may not have seen the sales the others have but they were very financially successful. Nintendo have proven they can live on their own franchises.

Nextly, PS4 is a lot more expensive to develop for. Pretty much every publisher and developer has said that. You can shrug 10% off but its still a sizable leap in investment. And its the kind of sizable leap where the install base needs to be there as quick as possible. PS4 or Xbox cannot afford mistakes so why not wait and see how it plays out first.

A slow start will be all it takes for developers to change there mind about where the "real" next gen is.

@RaymanFan2 I'm glad there is someone who agrees with me about Killzone. To me Halo works because it nailed the concept. Thats my point with Sony. Like Playstation All Stars they took one of the most popular franchises the competition had and attempted to mimic it's success. Halo was arguably inspired by Goldeneye but my view is that it was Halo that managed to set the standard for the many acclaimed shooters this generation.

Its not specific to software but hardware as well. The reason Kinect sold much better than Move is because it had the innovation. Microsoft may have followed Wii's lead but it was done in a more interesting way then tampering with the design of what was obviously a Wii remote.

@Harrison_Peter the thing is I don't like those games. I've played most of Sony's most appraised hits and I can never understand why but I just can't get into them. For Beyond Two Souls and The Last of us I haven't played them and neither have you. So how do you even know you will like them? Maybe you like the studios and its a safe bet? And The Last Guardian may very well be cancelled yet.

I have played most of their output and while it may be hard to accept I haven't enjoyed it. But of all the ones that I haven't liked, none (and note this is my opinion) have been worse then Killzone. That is exactly the kind of example I am using here. To me this was nothing more then a poor version of Halo.

Regarding your comment about Microsoft I don't agree with it. Again this is from experience, but they may launch less games but I think they are of better quality. Part of the reason Sony are struggling is because their games don't sell. They built their brand on third party games like GTA and Final Fantasy. Those games are now shared with Microsoft by default and it will get even worse if they get shared with Nintendo.

@DESS-M-8 Couldn't have said it better myself. The people who sit back and claim Sony have been first party kings this generation might find it hard to believe but there is someone who doesn't like Sony's output (me). And I don't care if I am the only one. All I've seen Sony do is copy what works for everybody else and try it themselves. As far as I'm concerned that is the reason they've fallen behind and the reason their games don't sell in my mind is because they are poorer quality then the others. Especially Killzone.

Anyone who knows anything about my posting history on the internet will know I think pretty much every developer Sony has sucks. Therefore I speak for myself when I say I don't care about you guys. Boring games. Ratchet and Clank is just another overrated Sony series like Killzone, GoW, Jak and Daxter and War of the Monsters.

@rjejr The series on Wii U? No. I really would love to see it get there because the idea of a "true" console GTA on Nintendo is extremely appealing to me.

Getting on 3DS? I wouldn't rule it out.

This is absolutely not news to me. Zelnick made his feelings clear the second he uttered the words "I'm skeptical". Seriously guys stand with me and buy games like Watch Dogs and ACIV to put this douche in his place. Make him regret shafting the system.

I expect more Japanese companies to start putting Nintendo on higher priority then Xbox. Its something I've long argued because Nintendo have more relevance in Japan then Xbox. Provided Nintendo can get the type of fanbase that played GC on board expect companies like Capcom, Sega and Namco to treat Nintendo better again.

@MANIAC911
I know man. That is why I brought it up. I just think that these analysts should start looking at every fence. Wii U has shown signs of life when Monster Hunter and Lego City came out so the interest is there. It just needs more games. And I agree more advertising is a must. The only adverts I have seen on Wii U are Lego City adverts which happened rarely.

Anyone else noticed how whenever Nintendo post results and don't meet targets these analysts are all over them to point out how they fail. Yet Vita has been sluggish from the start and these analysts have never once made a peep. They are so keen to note how smart phones are destroying Nintendo yet they have never made that spin towards Vita.