HMs Won't Be Returning In Pokémon Sword And Shield

It’s just kinda feeling less like a Pokemon game at this point. Hopefully someone does a Stardew Valley and recaptures what made the originals great while we have Game Freak going in this new direction.

I’m fine with no HMs. But I wish dexit didn’t have to happen, and I wish Gamefreak didn’t have to seemingly lie about the reason for dexit happening to save their butts during the controversey.

@nessisonett I'm playing Crystal for the first time, so I have that at least! I don't really care that much about HMs though.

No reason to have them in the game in the first place. I really don't believe anyone misses having to carry around an HM slave and have a bunch of mediocre moves polluting your team just because there might be a tiny bush blocking your way.

After reading the Game Informer interview I am even more excited for the games than before. I don't know why NL is taking so long trickling out info little by little.

This game is going to have 18 gyms mix between major and minor competitions apparently. Presumably one for each type?

No HMs to worry about.
Raid battles are apparently going to be more challenging.
"Dexit" is a serious non-issue, GF confirmed, again, Pokemon not appearing in this national dex will return in future games.
They are making it much easier to build competitive Pokemon with the example they listed suggesting you will be able to change your Pokemon's nature, probably in the post game, for competitive battles.

Not to mention most of the new Pokemon have looked great! I feel like they learned from B/W and chose quality over quantity for design this time. Most of the new Pokemon look like new ideas, rather than "yet another normal flying regional bird". etc.

I don't care what the haters say - and to be fair it's their right to their opinions - but I am getting very eager for these games!

I don't mind that HMs aren't returning, but I did like the Ride Pokemon that more or less replaced them in Gen 7. That said, HM use never felt like it was the most organic.

I suppose I'm rather neutral to this change. I like some of the other news that's trickled out (mentioned above by @Heavyarms55) more.

@Heavyarms55
18 gyms?

Source?

That's good. HMs were just simply annoying. However, it's not enough for me to buy. I was once looking very forward to these, but it trickled away.

Eh, HMs are a product of their time. Game design has moved on. Like, the man has a point: there's no point in a gated system in a game that encourages more open exploration. Botw did the same thing for the Zelda franchise with how they handled items. Given how well botw was received, it wouldn't surprise me if they took a bit from that. Though, it looks pretty similar on the surface to xbc2 as well

@westman98 It's in the Game Informer interview. Which almost everyone else outside of Nintendo Life has already done videos on and been talking about. Apparently 8 gyms before the elite 4 like normal, but there will apparently be a total of 18 leaders. It's not clear how it will work yet. They might be divide up between the games, or maybe you can pick and choose which gyms to challenge. I don't know.

@Heavyarms55
Just saw the news. If you can actually battle all of the 18 major + minor gym leaders, then that would be quite impressive.

It would be even better if each gym was of a different type, but I'm not getting my hopes up too much.

HMs should never return. The two alternatives since their disposal have been more than adequate, and never are a hassle.

@westman98 well, it's most likely the case. There are exactly 18 types after all, and 16 would make more sense (8 for one game, 8 for the other) if they weren't going for that.

As for the article, HMs need never return. We've already seen the bike get upgrades to replace ride Pokemon elements (crossing water for one) so the movement options will still be there without the restrictions. Sounds very nice.

I for one am glad... although I do like the concept of having to get a Pokémon that has an ability to progress, I don’t like the idea of having to have an HM-slave. What a waste in my opinion, especially as it takes up a whole move slot. I’m of course referring to the older games but yeah. Glad it’s gone. It’s an antiquated element.

@westman98 There are 18 types and apparently 18 leaders, I can't imagine them double dipping and, for example, having 2 dark type leaders and no ghost.

Personally I think it's most likely that there will be several version exclusive leaders to each game, like the 2 we've already seen. That would be a very Pokemon/Game Freak thing to do. Want to battle them all? Buy both games. And I admit, I'm dumb enough to probably do that. lol

I never really found HMs as bothersome as some people seem to do. For me it's whatever, I don't really care if they're in or not.

Much like TMs being a one shot item, HMs belong in the past

DEXit is good, especially if it excludes all the op legendaries and mythicals like those sleazebag tapus. too bad ditto is in the game, i hate that thing. hm were always a bad mechanic, Thank God they are gone forever!

@BlackTalon2 Right. Turning availability into a future advertisement and incentive tool is such a wonderful thing. I can’t wait until this becomes a monetization scheme.

@Heavyarms55 "competitive" Pokemon can go pound sand. It's such a small part of the base that they shouldn't matter and just make do like they always have.

@BlackTalon2 Ditto is absolutely necessary for breeding. Without ditto breeding Pokemon would be massively inconvenient. I had a ditto at one point that had literally thousands of children.

@nessisonett they need to change it up anyway

Breaking: Experience Share is reportedly baked into the game. Meaning that the considerable amount of fans that don’t like to use it, can’t turn it off anymore and are forced to use it.

https://www.gameinformer.com/2019/10/01/exp-share-is-baked-into-pokemon-sword-and-shield

@Heavyarms55 the maintenance payments must be through the roof!

I’m glad HM’s are gone. The first few games of Pokemon felt like dungeon crawlers at times (say hi, mount moon) when all you wanted to do was go out and catch a few bugs.

@RadioHedgeFund I actually do like the idea behind needing Pokemon to get through certain areas, but the HM execution was terrible. Small bush blocking your path? Huh, if only my 4 foot tall bug with literal swords for arms could do something about that! What, no HM01? Darn!

A Pokemon game where they reworked the idea behind HMs to be much more natural and to have puzzles where many different Pokemon could be used to solve them would be kinda interesting. Trying to get past that bush? Scyther can cut it, Charizard can burn it, Machamp can rip it out, Snorlax can sit on it or you can climb on Onix to get over it. For example.

@nessisonett They've gotta evolve somehow, sometime.

Personally I always hated HMs, I'd always have a HM slave (or several) and it felt so pointless.

I think it's a good thing to remove. But I still want them to kinda continue down the road with the concept of "keys" to "doors" and maybe instead include some fun puzzle-like quests with mysteries to uncover.

Good, never liked having to have an HM slave

Thank goodness!

Good, HMs were a terrible system to begin with.

Now if only Masuda could convince Monolith not to try duplicating them in Xenoblade.....

Eh I’m still mad about not having available all the pokemon. I don’t care if they add it to another game later, because probably they will fumble it again in some way or another.

Hell, there is even a chance that next games will be all just a fraction of the mon each game and good luck if your favorite isn’t in one of them, wait for the next gen.

Are they at least returning as TMs? I love Fly and Surf.

HM's were archaic and flawed, but they served a crucial role in the older games: they allowed your own Pokemon to directly interact with the world.

Sun/Moon's Poke Ride system was convenient and fun on a superficial level, but it lacked the secret ingredient that made HM's fun for veterans. With HM's, it was your Pokemon that would cut down the tree, move the boulder, carry you across the water, or help you fast-travel. It gave your own Pokemon more of a role within the world, and also gave your own player character more agency by teaching their own Pokemon these moves and directing them around the overworld.

This is why the replacements to HM's have never felt quite the same to veterans. With Poke Ride, you're just riding some sort of Taurus that appears out of nowhere, and disappears just as quickly. It isn't a Taurus that you capture and train to ride; it's just there and gone, a feature that's just given to you at certain points within the story arbitrarily.

HM's were crudely outdated and needed an overhaul, but they were one of the biggest Role-Playing mechanics older games had within the Game Logic; you had to track down these HM's, teach them to your own Pokemon, and then use your own Pokemon to interact with and navigate the world around you. Instead of overhauling the principle of using your own Pokemon to serve roles within the game world (y'know, the Role- part of Role-Playing Game), they simply removed the concept entirely.

In comparison, Poke Ride felt cheap, hand-holding and arbitrary, and ended up feeling like Pokemon Uber. Sword and Shield's taxi system is at least a step up since it's just calling it like it is, and is a little more immersive since the taxi Pokemon actually exist in the game and don't just appear out of nowhere. But newer games are still lacking that direct agency that HM's gave to your own team of six.

This is further worsened by the new bike system allowing your character to automatically ride over the water. I suppose if people really are desperate for as much convenience as possible then it's nice to have the option. However, if you can no longer use your own Pokemon to ride on the water, then this is a small but substantive loss to the Pokemon role-playing experience.

How about Game Freak, we overhaul the overworld interaction? Instead of specific HM attacks that can interact with the overworld, how about any slashing attack can cut down a tree? How about any fighting-esque punch or kick attack can move boulders? How about taking a page from Astral Chain and being able to call out your Pokemon from their Poke balls at any time in the overworld, and use the Ember attack to start a fire, or use Surf to travel over water? Let's start making these kind of gameplay advances instead of investing dev time in superficial features like Poke Ride and Poke Taxi that distract from your own player's role-playing experience.

What is an HM? I haven't played Pokemon since red and blue come on but plan on playing shield.

@Heavyarms55

i did all my breeding without ditto. none of my pokemon are genderless.

@BlackTalon2 Wonderful for you. But there are a good number of Pokemon that are, and it would be silly to just screw them over. Several of my favorites among them, like Starmie and Magnezone. Ditto is key. Also if one can get a really good ditto, it makes IV breeding much easier too.

@GetShulked

You can still avoid it by putting the pokemon, that you dont want to get any experience, in the pc box. only those in your party will get experience.

@Ulysses I knew there was a reason why those silly ride Pokémon felt completely out of place to me, I just couldn't figure out why. Thank you for articulating everything I felt about these newer Pokémon games but couldn't quite put into words, I guess this is all part of why I'm feeling like the series has grown into something completely different to the games I used to love and cherish.

Good to hear aboiut no HM's. I like to have a full team of Pokemon that is made for battling, and not having to fun back and forth between the PC. And not being forced to have a water and a flying type for Surf and Fly.

HM's were an excuse to revisit previously inaccessible areas. But lots of other games did this with Link's hookshot, Samus' ice beam, Castlevania's double jump, etc. Those areas could get annoying to retrace especially if it was the only way to progress in the game. Agreed that "HM slaves" are unnecessary, but i still like having a false swipe scyther around for easy 1 hp captures. What if cut, fly, surf, and strength were simply items you gathered on your quest and didn't take up Pokemon's move slots? Would that be that bad? Why not just have the gym badges convey these powers without having to teach them to your pokemon?

@Ulysses I couldn't have worded a better explanation for why HMs are still superior to every replacement Game Freak have implemented so far. I don't understand why they don't simply create an additional four non-battle move slots separate from the standard four moves each Pokemon can learn where special moves that impact the game world can be learned/assigned. That way you are still teaching a move to your own Pokemon and interacting with the world without turning the Pokemon into an HM slave. It would serve only to assist with solving overworld puzzles/obstacles and encourage users to catch a wider variety of Pokemon in order to tackle different areas in the environment.