Soapbox: Switch's Rampant Success Is Proof Positive That You Should Never Write Off Nintendo

Yes, I do.
But between Wii U and Switch has their own merit.
Wii U can display Youtube on TV while Switch can be played WITH or WITHOUT TV.

I agree, Wii U was a necessary step.
But as a Wii U and Switch owner. I feel a bit bamboozled.

I bought the Wii U for the exclusives, namely, Bayonetta and Mario Kart.

I love my other Wii U games. But I rather want ports like Doom and not Skyrim for my Switch. Owning a Wii U, was a choice. That means I didn't have another next gen console.

Long story short, I'll enjoy replaying Bayonetta and Skyrim, but I want ports from the Xbone and PS4 generation and not from the Wii U, 360 and PS3 generation.

Forget the video game industry, Nintendo has pulled off a comeback of a fashion that is rare for any company of any industry. Companies typically don’t have such comebacks with their products after such lows - look at Nokia, Blackberry... it’s an incredible feat for a company to do

I definitely agree with the point in the article that the Wii U was a necessary step to get to the Switch without the concept of it seeming too foreign to some. The Wii U introduced "Off-TV Play" with most games, so you didn't necessarily need a TV to be at least on to use the Wii U. The Switch simply takes that concept and expands upon it to the point where you can use it anywhere, not just by the TV.

The Switch has breathed new life into various popular games like Skyrim or Doom, although they obviously don't perform quite as well on the go as it would on a Xbox or Playstation, it still brings something new to the experience that didn't really exist before, being able to play wherever you want.

Also, with the last picture of those 2 guys playing Mario Kart in the car, is that some sort of accessory used as simply presenting a concept specifically for the Switch Reveal Trailer, or has this accessory been released before?

I think it would have been good to mention the 3DS in the article.

One of the best things about the switch so far is that nintendo didn't delay any games.

The Switch is a great piece of kit; both unique and easily understandable as a concept. It simultaneously innovates and strips back; building on ideas from almost every preceding Nintendo console while discarding the plethora of plastic peripherals that accumulated over the Wii and Wii U eras.

Despite its chameleon character, it still manages to feel like a full-fat experience in each form. The battery life might not be as good as dedicated handhelds, and it doesn't have the graphical grunt of its home console rivals, but when you're immersed in Hyrule's open fields or bouncing through the Cascade Kingdom - in either form - you simply don't realise. It just feels right.

However, with the above examples in mind, we'd only be talking about half the story of the Switch's success is we limit discussion to the Switch itself. Worth just as many column inches are the games. Nintendo has repeated the same magic of innovating while stripping back to its roots with its two big hitters of the year; Breath of the Wild reinterpretating of the original Legend of Zelda yet playing unlike anything we've seen in the series before, while Odyssey returns to the 'sandbox' style of 64 and Sunshine but with a unique character of its own. They're both daring in their own way, and mark a departure from the increasing linearity of each series up until their releases.

ARMS is equally audacious in reinventing the fighting game with spaghetti limbed combatants, and Splatoon 2 massively refines one of the few truly bold games that the Wii U produced, turning it into a wonderfully polished gem which has captivated its home country at least. And that's not mentioning the third parties and indies which are only set to grow and the system picks up more steam.

I feel that the games have displayed as big a leap of understanding as the console has, and any musings on the Switch's success should be equally considerate of the things actually bringing it to life.

The Switch is a great piece of hardware, but it's the software that truly sets it alight.

Something I want to point out is that Nintendo had one edge Sega, Atari, NEC, and countless other failed console makers lacked and that is their domination of the handheld market.

Without it, Nintendo would have likely gone third-party a long time ago like Sega did. You simply can't sustain a system selling the numbers the Gamecube and Wii U did.

But the 3DS is the hero that rose to the occasion and saved Nintendo after the Wii U failed. That scrappy little handheld that everyone claimed would never sell in a market controlled by mobile devices managed to sell over 70 million units a number that the PS4 is just now getting close to beating.

With those 70 million units, came millions of software sales with Pokemon, Smash, Mario, Fire Emblem, Animal Crossing, and others leading the charge.

My point is, Nintendo has a single advantage no other company will ever have, and that is their handheld market. They have dominated handhelds since the Game Boy came out back in 1989, and even as their home consoles have struggled, their handhelds have been there to save them.

The Game Boy saved them when the Nintendo 64 struggled, the Game Boy Advanced saved them when the sales of the Gamecube faltered, and the 3DS saved them when the Wii U barely sold more than the Saturn and Dreamcast.

Yes, the Wii U may have influenced a lot of Nintendo's mindset with the Switch, but I think the Switch is the result of Nintendo finally realizing they don't need to have a home console on the market.

The Switch is Nintendo's handheld legacy continued in a new form, and that form is a portable gaming system that can be played in numerous ways, has stunning graphics for a handheld, and can be plugged into a home console.

People claim the Switch is a home console, but I disagree. The Switch is Nintendo's handheld legacy in its newest form and Nintendo's admittance that handhelds are their flagship products, not home consoles.

The 3DS and its Game Boy ancestors played a role in this, and they are the unsung heroes of Nintendo's legacy. Scrappy little handhelds that defied powerful rivals systems, companies with deeper pockets, and mobile devices. That countless times saved Nintendo when things looked tough.

Now, the Switch is the heir to Nintendo's handheld throne, and as history has shown us, nothing can stop Nintendo in the handheld market.

What makes all of this funnier and ironic is that all the people who were busy digging Nintendo's grave ignored the 3DS that were selling very well. Nintendo was never doomed, and one failed console was not going to change that. It took Sega and Atari several failed consoles before they were finally forced out of the console market, and during the same time, Sony also had a failed system of their own in the Vita and its TV-based counterpart Playstation TV.

Nintendo was never doomed, and their death was greatly blown out of proportion by people who wanted to push the narrative that Nintendo would finally fail, and be forced to put Mario and Pokemon on Xbox and Playstation.

So, they ignored the 3DS and its success for years, downplaying that scrappy little handheld as it sold in the millions, and its software broke sales records.

Now, the Switch is forcing them to eat crow and declare Nintendo has come back.

But there was never a comeback. Yeah, the Wii U will go down as one of the worst-selling systems of all time, but the Vita is right there beside it.

As for the 3DS? Its the 12th best selling console of all time and the Switch could end up beating those numbers.

Nintendo was never dead, they were wounded to be sure. But they were never dead.

Nintendo thinking that adding the Wii name to a new console would make instant cash is ignorant but kind of a thankful lesson they learned when the Nintendo Switch was in development. Along with doing everything accessible to the developers and consumers, Nintendo is doing some right moves now

I wouldn’t change a thing about Nintendo

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DSvgAA3VwAAn0sQ?format=jpg

Quite the turnaround.

I bought my Wii U because I wanted to play some fun Nintendo games. It was unfortunate that the console didn't get to live up to it's full potential, but it did have those fun games I wanted in the first place. I bought the Switch for the same exact reason. With the Wii U I was a bit sad that there weren't as many games that caught my attention as I would have liked but it wasn't surprising with how rough things were from the start. With the first year there were about as many games in the Switch's library that caught my attention as there were games I own for the Wii U excluding VC titles. The Switch is off to a fantastic start with no signs of slowing down and I couldn't be happier.

I doubt anyone with any business acumen would think to "write off nintendo" This is a really dumb statement...

I agree with that heading.

I’ve thought since the GameCube era that Nintendo would “sacrifice” the home console to save it’s handheld market.

It genuinely feels like all their previous consoles have led up to Switch! They showed the journey at the Switch event (but maaaan...why no analogue triggers!?!) Any game suits the Switch. Along with virtual console, I really hope Nintendo continue to bring games like Skyrim to Switch. Games that I'm sure I'm not alone in never playing because I don't own every game system under the sun. As for current gen ports, as long as the gameplay and spirit of the game remains, then it's all good.

Of course you should never write them off. Even the competition knows that, and on occasion they even say exactly that, so that should tell you enough.

Mainstream media and so-called business analysts simply don't have enough knowledge about the gaming industry and the history of Nintendo and the role it had and still has in that very industry, to understand that Nintendo will keep doing what they do, regardless of all the idiotic "Nintendoomed" messages, and ridiculous outcries for them to either go mobile or third party.

They are the last true giant in the industry and if they go, it'll be bad for the entire industry, so nobody in their right mind would want that, other than some pathetic, short-sighted fanboy of one of the other two systems, who doesn't have the comprehensive understanding to see or acknowledge any of these facts.

In an alternate universe where the Wii U was released with Super Mario Maker as a launch title (alongside Nintendo Land) and it perhaps had a better name, I think it would have been as successful as the Switch. The gamepad came across as too much of a gimmick, and the game that actually uses its features to its full capacity came out too late in the system's life cycle.

I agree. Never write Nintendo off, specially when they are against the wall - they haven't been around for 100 years just because.

I hope they never dissapear. They offer a product that is different from the current HD twins, with a different game offering that I love a lot. They push something different in the industry, that neither Sony and MS offer and I doubt they could offer it honestly.

Good soapbox Dom.

The authors of the articles from Forbes and The Daily Dot have so much egg on their faces now.

The Switch is the coming together of everything good about Nintendo. They have married their home consoles and handhelds into one system, and one very important aspect, I think, is that they have unitified their fanbase by doing this.

If the Switch has replaced both Wii U and 3DS, it will mean that developers can reach both audiences, there are no exclusives for Nintendo that are split between their different consoles and no camp misses out on great games.

The Switch shows they have clearly learned from past mistakes, still some more lessons to learn but Nintendo is making great strides. And despite its failure, the Wii U is still one of my favourite consoles and will always hold a special place in my heart.

Amen man. Never lost faith.

Pioneers of playability!
God bless em

@Kienda Too right, and well said.

Somebody write an article about those awesome commercials and promotional videos for Switch.

It is difficult for a company and for a fan to do something that many times and in "full view", seems to be a disaster, failure and discouragement; and that is:

Be optimistic!!

Being patient and being optimistic is not easy, but you can get great rewards.

Despite many "falls" that Nintendo has had with the Wii U: they have worked hard and have given very good games and the console has been very interesting in many things; and now, with Switch, more great games are appearing and also the console show its capacities, especially its ability to be hybrid.

An all we, have enjoyed those games and the fun they provide, no matter what problems have happened, right?

I enjoyed reading this article much more than most articles on this site. Nice writing Dom!

I really enjoyed the Wii U personally. But I'm glad we're past that whole era of Nintendo trying to be different only to end up being more gimmicky.

Honestly I think Nintendo has found it's perfect balance. The Switch is a great piece of hardware that does its job well without big gimmicks. On top of that, the games they've been putting out as of late are fantastic. If they were to just keep making systems based on Switch (maybe upgrading and improving the hardware) and keep making new entries in their big franchises while also continuing to create new IP's like Splatoon and Arms, I think they'd have it made. Software is Nintendo's bread and butter, and that's what they need to focus on now. Because I feel that the hardware model they have going now with the Switch is (nearly) perfect.

Nintendo obviously loves trying to innovate with hardware, but I hope they stick with the Switch's design for a long time. I can play it anywhere or I can play it on my TV, and I absolutely love that flexibility. What they really should do now is just focus on innovating with their software just as they've done with Breath of the Wild, Odyssey, and Splatoon, among others. If they kept the hardware mostly the same (but made it more powerful) going forward and just focused on games, that's all I'd really want from them.

I just hope they take more of the Wii U catalog and bring it to the Switch.

@westman98

10/10

It's been handhelds that kept nintendo afloat all this time. The NES was a major hit, but the Super NES was in second place to the Genesis...N64 wasn't the top play competitor, Gamecube was noted as a flop (which I still love that console to death), Wii was a major hit, but how many people continued to purchase games for it? and Wii U was a flop. Switch is a success, but I hear more people (like myself) count it as a portable. As long as nintendo keeps the games flowing, and 3rd parties continue to stay on board, it will be a hit console for them, but it's the next year or so to count it...and I'm sure it will outsell the Xbox One in it's long run, but for some reason, I don't see it outselling the DS or Wii. But, I could be wrong with that. Anyways, the handhelds have kept them alive, and others that have tried to compete with them for that, have failed (Sega's, Atari's and even Sony's). Since the Gameboy (let's forget the Virtual boy and Game Girl scenes), they've had success with handhelds, and during the Wii U's days, the 3DS and Amiibo figures gave them money instead. But, as I've seen with nintendo throughout the years, they usually always have one flop system and then the next is a hit...which I could possibly be looked down on if their next console is a hit as well. I'm a Sony fan now too, and I'd still be a Sega fan if they had their consoles going (still love my Genesis and Dreamcast), but I basically look at the IP's for each company. Nintendo has Mario, Kirby and Pikmin...3 IP's I love. Sony has Uncharted, Ratchet and Clank, Jak and Daxter and more that I love. Sega has Sonic, Toe Jam And Earl, Ristar, Golden Axe and more that I love. If Microsoft kept their game series running each generation (what happened to Viva Piñata, Blinx, Voodoo Vince, Fable) then I'd have love for them too. I don't see the Switch outselling the PS4 or even the Wii, but I see them making their way back onto the charts. It all comes down to what they do within the next year or two and keep the advertising going and keeping the 3rd parties and indie companies happy. Maybe since they went back to cartridge, they can pop the games out faster and keep a good retail collection on store shelves, not just download-only titles that consumers won't see.

@ZeldaToThePast That's something that I wish, especially for the people that ignored the Wii U. Super Mario 3D World, Yoshi's Woolly World, Captain Toad, DK Tropical Freeze and Pikmin 3 would be nice additions...even Nintendo Land would be a nice addition. Sometimes I wish they'd also make a brand new Wii Sports (change the title to Switch Sports or something). Granted, even though it won't happen, I'm waiting for a new Chibi Robo game too...or at least the re-release of the Gamecube one.

@JLPick I’m all for porting Wii U games to Switch to give them another lease on life, but Nintendo Land is an impossibility. The game was literally designed around using a second screen in various gameplay situations and the Switch doesn’t have that option.

Good writing, Dom.

Great article!

Anyone here seen this Switch 5.0 beta?

Adding to the excellent points Dom and others have mentioned, IMHO I have never seen a video game system so intertwined with its predecessor as the Switch is to the Wii U. It's not just the games or the form factor, it's the philosophy as well.

Wii helped Nintendo make loads of money, but it was incredibly poisonous for the company in the long-term. The mentality that Wii made Nintendo have led to the mishaps of the Wii U. But what few people mention is that the Wii U helped change Nintendo's philosophy from the previous Wii one and set in stone a much stronger and better one in the long-term.

Wii U was when Nintendo dropped unnecessary gimmicks and focused on making games pure fun. While the Wii U second screen was implemented in many games, Nintendo started focusing more and more on core gameplay mechanics without gimmicks IMHO. No more Twilight Princess plagued with waggle, or Super Mario Galaxy hindered by unnecessary waggle moves. Nintendo started focusing more and more on core gameplay instead of chasing after the casual crowd with unnecessary gimmicks. That's a transition started during the Wii U that helped create the Switch.

The Switch might just be the best Nintendo console ever produced, but it owes quite a bit to its predecessor, more than any other console ever IMHO. Recognizing the Wii U's influence (and that of the Nintendo handhelds as well) is key to understanding the excellence of the Switch.

The Wii U largely failed not due to the inferior power level, but due to lack of 3rd AND first party support. The Wii U often went months without a major release. In addition, the Wii U had terrible marketing. Only dedicated gamers knew what it was. Most other people thought you were making a ambulance sound or in some cases, thought it was an optional add on for the original Wii.

People tend to forget that at one time "Nintendo" was synonymous with "video game" and they would do well to remember Nintendo is never truly down and out.

@Nincompoop Looks legit.

Any idea when it's supposed to drop?

I've recently just purchased a PS4 (and a cheap PS3) as I decided the Switch and its games were too expensive for me right now, especially how portability holds little value to me. I'll definitely get one down the line. What I've realised from this is just how many more great games Sony's consoles have, and how great some games on the PS4 look (and play). I'll always prefer Nintendo's best games, and I'll always be a Nintendo fan first and foremost, but it has made me really appreciate how great it would be to be able to play all of Sony's and Nintendo's greats on the same, powerful console. Mostly due to wallet friendliness. I would never had said that a few years ago!

@Nincompoop I saw YouTube and other apps... PLEASE TELL ME THIS LEAK IS REAL

@Nincompoop Pretty sure that's fake, it does look really legit and I hope its real, but people have gone to great lengths to fake things before

@Andrew_R_2000 @Nincompoop It seems it may be fake. Someone on twitter has potentially debunked it thanks to certain numbers not adding up regarding the Sd card and system memory. However, he could be wrong. Let's hope he's wrong.

Don't forget that the Wii U paved the way for the Switch technically as well as creatively. With it's focus on low electricity consumption rather than power, Nintendo was most likely already trying to get their home consoles to evolve into portables. The Wii U was a necessary akward stage.

I'm just glad they're bold enough to do something different.

Nintendo hardware is very precious to me. Because no one, and I do mean no one, is going to offer the kind of hardware Nintendo does. I really enjoy Switch. Heck, I really enjoyed Wii U, and before that the Wii and 3DS. And if Nintendo were not here offering the Switch, I can promise you we would not have a hybrid console to play on.

Everyone has their purpose now. Sony and MS provide us with the straight laced power home console experience, and that's good because we need that. We want that. But it's not all we want. And that's where Nintendo comes in. They provide us with something different. And I love it.

It's amazing that, despite its shortcomings (lack of VC, Cloud storage, streaming apps, and a decent online structure), this system managed to do so well. Let's hope Nintendo can iron out the wrinkles this year.

@Beeit @Andrew_R_2000 @onex I think it could be real... Youtube took down the video just now, Nintendo must have requested it. The entire account of that channel is gone. Why would a faker delete his account/video when it's getting so many hits? If it's fake, Nintendo will not request a takedown.

To be honest, if not for Zelda (which was also on Wii U), the Wii U would have been my favorite console, ahead of the Switch. I saw amazing games this past year for the Switch, but I've yet to gain the same enjoyment I had with the Wii U, BotW excluded. Here's hoping 2018 can change that.

The Wii U was a fantastic failure in my book. It was never my most frequently played console, and I hated the stupid tablet controller, but the fact that it had a fully functional original Wii built in and some of the best Virtual Console support around made it a console that I will always love to have.

That said the Switch is the console that made me a Nintendo fan again.

People who were writing off Nintendo, saying then should just make games, don’t know what they’re talking about. It’s as if they were completely ignoring Nintendo’s history and everything else about it. Simply looking at the fact that PS 4 and Xbox were doing better, and that’s it. Given everything about Nintendo, after how the Wii U fared, a comeback was inevitable. While it wasn’t a given that the Switch would do so well, it’s success isn’t so surprising.

The switch finally brought back some colour to a console. I just love the way it looks (neon version). It just screams "fun"! Way better then all the generic looking consoles especially the wii U. Now nintendo just have to give us new joy con colours frequently.

And please give me a Star Fox game in 2018!

Can’t understand people that hate them. I don’t care for PlayStation or Xbox but I don’t hate them or want to see them disappear and fail they just don’t interest me

@WaveBoy Bayonetta 3, USF2, Octopath Traveler, Mario + Rabbids, Fire Emblem Warriors are all third party exclusives.

Switch will do well to outsell 3DS and Wii U combined.

What comeback,

Wii u may have been a commercial failure but 3ds has been a great success. Ninty didn't fail the wii u did.

Switch will succeed thx mainly to ninty handheld fans, that's where most sales will come from and ppl that buy latest handhelds but don't care which companies make them.

Well it is refreshing to see everyone being positive again but I worry that in this light then Nintendo will continue to behave in a way that has frustrated many of us for over a decade.
You want your kids to have a Switch too- that’s fine but you realise that you can’t share eshop games on a family account. All those VC games you paid hundreds for on your Wii and Wii U- we will be expecting you to pay for them again.... (probably)
Nintendo have had a great year but they really need to start listening to their customers fully. Then again what do I know? I didn’t sell 10 million consoles this year.

The Wii U was an incredible idea that really showed what Nintendo’s next major idea was. It was amazing and also a shame at the same time. You could see the seed of the future but there wasn’t enough tech there to grab the attention of gamers and developers.

The switch is essentially a fully mobilised and fully functioning Wii U.

The Seitch is literally the single most impressive gaming platform ever conceived and is where video gaming should be headed. If the PS5 is yet ANOTHER graphical upgrade to the same tired format it will be short sighted and very very disappointing.

Graphics have now reached the knee of a tangential curve; needing a greater input compared to the incremental rise in output and should no longer be the focus for ever generation. The cost of chips and programming time based purely on graphics need only be revised every 7-10 years before you’ll see any worthwhile improvement from the hardware.

The PS5 should really be looking to copy the Switch format in everyway but using mobile hardware chipsets in 3 years from now and deliver a Switch with PS4 Pro visuals and 4K docked capability.

The final necessary step in video gaming is for crossplay on ALL online multiplayer games.

@Caryslan Very well put! Take a look at lifetime worldwide sales of Nintendo handhelds:

Game Boy/Color - 118.69 million
Game Boy Advance/SP/Micro - 81.51 million
Nintendo DS/Lite/DSi - 154.02 million
3DS/New 3DS - ~70 million

That's a staggering 424.22 MILLION handheld units sold.

That's more than all the consoles releases in the history of mankind COMBINED. And then on top of that you have first party software sales for those handhelds and THEN you have the home consoles. Insane.

"Wii U's lack of... any kind of head-turning innovation" Well, at least NintendoLife writers can be honest about that now, rather than at the time, when they were pretending that having a map on a second screen was somehow the greatest innovation of all time...

And while yes, Nintendo "goes its own way", "marches to the beat of its own drum" and all the other clichés, to be fair, it's usually because they've screwed up so bad that they've given themselves no choice but to do that.

I do worry about Nintendo post Switch.

The Switch is an evolved Wii U that does some things better but also some things worse. It's basically a portable Wii U. Oh and it's easy to develop for, that was a massive hindrance for developers.

@NinChocolate agree. It’s testamont to the power of branding in my opinion. A good brand is a short cut for consistency and trust. Nintendo pulled this off due to its brand as much as its product innovation.

@Eddyson

thing just isn't powerful enough.

yeah; they'll be muddy ports like doom and wolf2 but that's probably going to be the extent of it. it's going to take N making good 1st/2nd party stuff and indies to float the switch.

I think in all honesty the Wii u involved far more invention and progression as a concept but was woefully handled. Nintendo did everything wrong at nearly every stage of its management except make great games.
The switch, for me, does less as I don't take it out of the house and yet cant play 2 screen multiplayer, use as a TV remote, browse the web, watch YouTube or switch screens without walking to the TV. My girlfriend was the one who pointed out when I was getting up to dock the switch and go to the big screen that it seems like a backstep from the convenience of the Wii u and I had no reply tbh.
The biggest thing I miss is the gamepad. I loved it as a pad, using the big screen, inventory management, interactive maps, objective management, no HUD, player 2 screen.....all these things are why the Wii u is firmly my favourite Nintendo console despite my love of the switch.

@ecco6t9

and if the GC had a dvd drive they wouldn't have had to.

the hubris of the cartridge killed N back at the n64. it was just a matter of time really.

the wii was a monster but a garbage system. motion is AWFUL for most everything (just like touch on a tablet). N still doesn't understand the internet and this cartridge debacle is still going on today.

gamers have short memories which is the only think keeping N from 3rd party status.

@NintenNinja16 yes it's been out for a while there are many different car adapters check them out here!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Nintendo+Switch+car&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3ANintendo+Switch+car

It may well be selling but it's got the worse online system ever. No voice chat, or party matchmaking, no monster hunter, no Nintendo rewards. No Netflix. No VC.

@Caryslan Then why are they so insistent on calling it a home-console? Why is that docked part even included? Why does the majority use both modes? Tell me that.

Nintendo hasn't made a genuine effort in the home-console market since the Gamecube failed, but, regardless, if they were so confident in their handheld base, then they'd never bothered putting a dock with the Switch.

@Nico87 So, shall we by that very number now abolish all home-consoles from history? Are they a bygone phase because of the Switch now? What sells systems, more so than ANYTHING else? Games, and both you and Caryslan woefully ignored that one!

@JaxonH It's clear that people want handheld from them, so what is the Switch, other than a last, desperate grip to include home-console? I wouldn't be surprised if the next Switch just doesn't have any dock at all anymore. Handheld and home-console players have different priorities on the things they want from their machines. Handheld people don't mind the compromises made to play handheld, home-console players expect more out of their standing machine. The current Switch is only baby-steps, and only that if Nintendo actually bothers to improve the home-console part, which is questionable at best.

Nintendo could have released a conventional system with the same game schedule and would have succeeded because people were sick of gimmicks and gesture controls. Such a system would actually be more powerful than current Play Station and XB, so would get full third party support. As it stands, going hybrid was wise as it provided a conventional system and a portable to replace the tiring 3DS.

@Nincompoop Ok, I'll admit that points to it bring real, but I'm still leaning towards fake. I'd love to be wrong though

"Wii U was a necessary step towards a superior console"

Nothing necessary about it at all!

@JLPick SNES outsold the Genesis, for what it's worth.

@sword_9mm Skyrim's version is MUCH closer to the ps4 then to the ps3 version.
The Switch has it's limits, but that doesn't mean it doesn't deserve great next gen games as the only portable console out there!

@mfd Nintendo is a home console and a portable console. That is why it is a hybrid. The Wii u was just a home console that you could play with the game pad without tv. The Wii u had limited portability using the game pad about 24 feet away from the system.

I enjoyed my Wii U but Nintendo got it all wrong for all the reasons that have been pointed out before.

What I think people forget is the point at which Nintendo got all their gaming divisions in the one space. It is clearly too difficult for a company like Nintendo to sustain a quality and steady flow of games for two consoles on their own (handheld and home). Put that all under one roof and put the efforts into one console that can do both portable and home gaming and you have a got a real chance then.

People are already questioning Nintendo's ability to have a steady slew of games in 2018 to match 2017. I think its silly to think Nintendo havent already planned for this. I think we we will get a number of big hitters this year.

@Lord Thanks for the reply! I'm probably am not going to get one of those, but I'm glad I know what it is now XD

I had definitely written them off during the Wii U generation. I didn't care about what they were doing and didn't follow them at all, and wasn't all that impressed by PS4 until 2016, either. Then the first Switch trailer came out, and my mind was pretty much blown, especially since most of the games that were on/were coming to the Wii U that I was kinda disappointed that I didn't have like Mario Kart 8, Splatoon, and Zelda were coming to the Switch.

Now that the Switch is already having a pretty darn great number of games coming out steadily and the PS4 is actually worth buying now, I'm actually enjoying gaming again. There was a good 2 or 3 years there where I just didn't really enjoy the hobby that much.

@HalBailman Too bad the Switch is tailored to being a handheld. The dock's contribution is near meaningless. Just get an HDMI cable and it'll do it as well, albeit at less cost and maybe a little less tech, but still mostly the same thing.

Interesting takes from everyone on the Switch and the Wii U.

As someone pointed out, the biggest reason the Wii U failed was the lack of clarity on what it is was. Even I, a lifetime gamer, remember not really understanding if it was a Wii add on or a standalone console. And even up until recently, I know people personally who thought it was just an add on that made Wii games look better. That's a complete failure in getting your message across. Even when Nintendo did clarify what the Wii U was, they still did a piss poor job in marketing the thing. I acknowledge the drought in games was also a contributing factor. But I still stand by the lack of mind share for the Wii U was its biggest downfall.

As for the Switch (and I can only speak for me personally), I consider it a home console that I can either play at home or on the go.

@JLPick Judging by these impressive sales figures, I'd say that people kept on buying games for the Wii throughout its lifespan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Wii_video_games

@sandman89 Well said. Unless Nintendo goes third-party (which they won't, because the Switch is going to make Nintendo great again), I can't see myself ever buying a PlayStation or XBox. But competition has always spurred Nintendo to make new, better consoles. Without the Sega Genesis, there would have been no Super Nintendo. Without the PS2, there would have been no Wii. And without the PSP, there would have been no Nintendo DS. A monopoly has no benefit to the consumers.

Nintendo success is cyclical. This is just like back in the GameCube days when they succeeded it with the Wii. Then after wii they rested on their laurels and got burned with the Wii U. Same thing will most likely happen with the success of switch. Expect the next console to largely be another flop ala GameCube and Wii U.

@NinChocolate see my previous comment, this is nothing new for Nintendo. When their back is against the wall, they're suddenly brilliant. But when they're at the top of their game they're extremely vulnerable to missteps.

I didn't own a Wii U. Just the games library doesn't appeal me (forgive me Bayonetta, we're gonna met soon on Switch). Honestly, that machine lacks good software. Take apart Zelda BOTW, Splatoon and Mario Kart 8 (all of them now they are truly Switch experiences) and what is left is subpar.
Now all I want from Nintendo is a good platformer: a truly new classic Mario with innovations (no more reused assets from New NSMB) and a new Donkey Kong. Bring it on!

I think the Switch is the "perfect storm". Portable, great graphics, great ergonomics, durable, great games, responsive OS, dockable... It's just perfect.

I was a late adopter with the Wii U since I didn't buy one till August 2017; its lifespan was horrible timing for me. However, when I did buy one all my money went directly Nintendo rather than a retailer. I've bought all but one game myself and I've found good deals on all the games I have. I'm glad I added it to my entertainment center, though I kept the Wii since it was bought shortly before they stopped making them GameCube compatible. However, the games that are being ported to the Switch will only be bought for the Switch.

Much as I love my other consoles and handhelds, the Switch is the crown jewel of my collection and a source of pride. It was my first major non-educational purchase that had zero input from my family and friends. I bought all the games and most of the accessories myself. I'd love it regardless, but this makes it extra special. I even bought a red and black Celtic knot bag at the Renaissance Festival just for the Switch and its accessories.

I have an Xbox One, but I don't use it for gaming anywhere near as much as my trio of Nintendo consoles. Dad bought it for me since we decided if I was going to get a Blu-Ray/DVD player it might as well also function as a CD player and a console with a big library.

The Switch is the evolution of the Wii U. The Wii U felt like it "should" have been able to move away from the TV... but it could only go a set distance because it was tethered. Just put the Wii U gamepad and Switch next to each other and see the evolution (and marvel at slimness of Switch). The best concept of Switch is definitely being able to take your games on the go and sharing it socially. I remember being so frustrated by the games that I was playing on 3DS being separate from Wii U games. Nintendo has a perfect niche with a hybrid system that is unique (niches allow life to flourish in biology).

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't regret purchasing my Wii U back in 2013 one bit. I have about 13 games I bought physical, plus all my Wii games I could still play, plus a couple dozen eShop purchases I made (indies like Axiom Verge, AAA like ACIV, Watch Dogs, and 1st party games like Splatoon, misc. Zelda titles, etc). I still play my Wii U (when grad school life permits) and I look forward to treating myself with a Switch when I graduate in May. I still anticipate having a back log of games to finish on my Wii U though.

@gatorboi352
The narative for a while was that Nintendo was on a downward trend, with each of their consoles selling less than the previous, outside of the Wii, and that the NX/Switch would closely follow that trend. Now that the Switch has broken that narative, Nintendo's success is cyclical?

Lol

@GravyThief Oh, man, do you have a ton of great games ahead of you, and on the cheap. Coolio.

@ekwcll By your logic, a laptop is a hybrid, anything that connects to TV is a hybrid, anything with an HDMI cable can be a hybrid.

You may call it a "hybrid" all you like, but let us make no mistake that it's a handheld, or arguably even more correct, a tablet, first and foremost. The small screen houses the important parts, without that, it's nothing but useless parts. The form-factor itself is that of a tablet, with the Joy-Cons added, it's a handheld. The dock is a mostly empty plastic shell with tech reminiscent of an HDMI cable. If that's a hybrid, then so was the Gamecube with it's cable that connects a GBA to it.

This is a good article with some outstanding points, but I don't agree with this- "Arriving exactly a year before the beginning of a new generational leap, Wii U's lack of power or any kind of head-turning innovation was an imperfect storm that left casual players and Nintendo diehards alike with an unmemorable piece of hardware."

I think that the Wii U absolutely could have resonated with casual gamers if the system were marketed properly and if it had more heavy hitting games early on.

The Wii U got me back into console gaming after nearly a 20 break. I think there's a lot of people who were like me, but just didn't know what the Wii U was or that it even existed. Even the limited range of the Gamepad was a virtue in my family. I could use it to watch or play something whilst the rest of the family could use the main screen. As far as graphics- for those of us who drifted away from gaming, it was a huge step up from the consoles of the mid to late 90s to early 2000s.

NintendoLand was a great little pack in game- under rated, but hardly a system seller. NSMBU- at first, I was thoroughly disappointed. I was actually expecting something more like Super Mario 3d World. It ended up growing on me, but again, hardly a system seller when it was essentially on the 3ds, DS and Wii.

If Nintendo could have launched with Mario Maker or at least had it ready by holiday season 2013, it would have flown off the shelves. Not to the extent that the Switch is, but it certainly would have sold far more than 14MM units.

Conversely with the Switch, so many people missed out on MK8, that MK8D coupled with Zelda and then a relatively fresh Splatoon as a new IP- this really helped the Switch also. But the main thesis of the article is correct- the timing was excellent for the Switch to sell. The Wii U needed more help.

@Dev Heck, you could even say the Virtual Boy was the prototype of the 3DS.

I honestly don’t get the comparison to wii u
Nintendo have said themselves the switch is an almagamation of ALL their consoles, not just the wii u.
The wii u wasn’t close to doing what the switch was? Granted I never owned a wii u, but I also never saw anyone lugging round that giant plastic suitcase of a screen on public transport, nor did I see the control pad come apart and give 2 player options with one pad.
Of course I see a bit of resemblance but I thinks it’s over the top when people call it the wii u successor?!
Maybe I’m alone on this but I never wanted a wii u at any point, but the switch was a day 1 purchase for me, so personally.... I see it as it’s own thing that has evolved from all of Nintendo’s past consoles.

Their stock was over 70.12 back in 2008. In 2014, fell to 11.12 at one point. Now, back up to about 47.10....basically, Nintendo's history is going up and down between cycles. I would not buy in again, but I did buy a small amount in 2008 and am pretty damn happy right now. I only see it growing as well with increased optimism and hopefully some amazing third party support. Nintendo right now is a very safe bet.

Those saying the Wii U failed because of low processing power have got to be eating their words right now.

I suppose its possible that the Wii U's lack of power was a contributing factor, but the Switch is showing that lack of power is not a death sentence.

At the end Nintendo will always be a kid machine. If you're older you want more. But if you like just light hearted games then Nintendo is the machine to get

@Alucard83 Well, the coveted 90+ demographic favours the Wii by a pretty big margin. It's the only video game system I've ever seen at a retirement community, though I suspect that might not be what you're getting at lol. I'd say Nintendo is more of a "fun for everyone" system - kids, teens, adults, elderly people, and even women. The Switch has plenty of AAA M-rated games (Bayonetta, Doom, Skyrim) if that's your thing, and even the more family-friendly Nintendo games have their share of less than light-hearted moments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPd9Rv4_84U

Surely the problem is that games journalists, YouTube ‘personalities’ and analysts wrote Nintendo off? In part because they’re not generally up to the job, in part because they’re too much in a bubble to take an objective view of the hobby and in part because they have a personal vested interest in seeing Nintendo fail because they personally pay more attention to the AAA space (& have better contacts in that industry so want to promote it for their own importance).

Aside from Nintendo - the other big surprise in 2017 was just how successful Crash Bandicoot was on PS4. It was huge. There’s simply an incredible audience for premium family friendly video games that’s being neglected by almost everyone except Nintendo.

@Deathwalka I used to take my Wii U to my friends' house in my backpack that stored my old Dell laptop. I could fit everything AND a dozen physical games in their cases. So it was a semi-portable system. Certainly more so than an Xbone or ps4

@MsgBoardGamer @westman98

@Alucard83 The naughties called, they want their narrative back.

@Alucard83 Nonsense.

@Dom This article was chugging along great, but then ended so abruptly! I was ready for more.

I agree with the headline but couldn't disagree more with the subheading.
The Switch is not a console and therefore can't be superior to the Wii U, because it's operating in a totally different section.

"Wii U was a necessary step towards a superior console"

No it wasn't. A lot of the failing of the Switch as a platform were recognised by consumers and the industry from day one. I'm sure Nintendo learnt a lot from the missteps, but at the same time it was clear that the console was compromised in its delivery and the lack of AAA titles also was a very apparent issue and problems that could have been avoided by waiting for the technology to materialise and a better release strategy.

I completely disagree that the Wii U had to happen for the Switch to appear though and the Switch brought with it a lot of what people wanted day one from the Wii U.

Anyone else find the article a bit hard to read? It's gonna take a bit to adjust to Dom's writing style.

For every success Nintendo has, it buys itself two generations worth of consoles. I think back-to-back console failures would have to happen to make Nintendo think about stop making them. Kinda like Sega struggled with the Saturn and Dreamcast (commercially, not critically). The Wii's success gave them enough cash for the Wii U and Switch. The Switch should give them plenty of cash, too. Long live Nintendo!

"Wii U was a necessary step towards a superior console."

I honestly don't believe that the Switch is a superior console. It's a great, simple idea, but to me, the Wii U offered far more inventive possibilities that were, sadly, never realised. I loved using the touchscreen for inventory, HUD, map, etc., and 2 player games that gave each player a separate screen. It was like a supercharged 3DS/DS, and it's sad to see Nintendo drop the dual-screen approach after it being a staple since 2005. The Switch removes all that stuff and is basically just an HD Wii. It's more suited to the "Wii" name than the Wii U ever was.

The only things the Switch has over the Wii U or 3DS is power and improved motion controllers. However, I don't care about power as long as games are good, and Nintendo has done nothing with the HD rumble so far. So, until the Switch gets a massive number of must-have exclusives, I have no intention of downgrading from my Wii U or 3DS.

Yeah, yeah, negative comment as usual, but I'm just stating how I truly feel about this matter.

Writing off Nintendo is never sensible. I have always said that both Sony and Microsoft have huge technologies to fall back on and maybe their risks are less risky than Nintendo’s will ever be.
The Wii U had some great games and the controller was a good idea in essence but it was poor marketing and also either complacency or naivety that led to its ultimate downfall.
Nintendo were never going to try and fight back on a power scale but looked at the handheld market and consoles and saw a gap that could be filled in between the DS family and the powerful console.
They listened to the fans and heard that the gamepad was okay in essence and could be a platform for something much better. And the Switch is that very something much better!
Nintendo perhaps took their eye off the ball beween Wii and Wii U but boy have they answered their critics!
Bring on the Nintendo Direct and I’m expecting surprises and more quality gaming for the years ahead.
What will be interesting will be what happens after Switch. Will it become more powerful and grow like the DS series! Time will tell.
Welcome back Nintendo.

Wii U had some brilliant games I don't think it was a bad system at all! It was just born too late.
Zombi U, Deus Ex Directors Cut, Xenoblade, Black ops 2, Splinter Cell etc.
If that console came at the same time as the 360 & ps3 then it would have smashed the competition. Who doesn't want an extra screen for their inventory & maps?
Anyone who thinks it was a bad console is either a sheep, a sore developer, or just never had one of their own..

Anyone who claims Nintendo need to go the way of Sega are delusional. There is no excuse why any journalist hasn't done their research about Sega and Nintendo. Nintendo can actually afford to make consoles given their finances. Sega are so far gone, if they tried to do it again, it would flop big time. I just can't imagine a situation in which that ever happens for the big N.

I disagree that the Wii U's failure was necessary in order for Nintendo to achieve success with the Switch, and not really sure how anyone could reason that. Right now, I'm not even sure that Nintendo has really learned anything from their failures.

The Switch being successful is great, and that is easily attributed to Nintendo providing a piece of hardware that actually has quality built into it, and a healthy library of games.

When the Wii U launched I thought it was a neat idea. It made sense to essentially take the DS second screen and apply it to a home console. For years after the launch, I had wondered why Nintendo just couldn’t seem to utilize the second screen correctly. What finally opened my eyes was the release of Star Fox Zero. That’s a pretty sparse game, and the reasoning is because they went for 60fps, but it came at a cost of trying to render that on two screens. The power just wasn’t there. So the reason why MK8 had such a lame “second screen experience” falls back what happened with Star Fox. Perhaps the Wii U was just too ahead of its time.

So sure, I think Nintendo bit off more than they could chew. Maybe they thought the price of the tech would go down, but it really explains why Nintendo implemented the second screen so poorly sometimes. Sure there’s good examples of using it well, but there’s just as many duds too.

We were all wondering if Nintendo had simply lost their way. We were all rather critical, cause we needed to be. Thank goodness Nintendo picked themselves back up, and really focused on what people actually liked about the second screen — you could still keep playing, while others use the tv.

If Nintendo has proved something over and over again, it’s that they are the king of handhelds. The Switch perfectly suits them, and I think the console is great and will continue to sell well too.

@MoonKnight7 Do you stand still to consider that the Switch also has the other side? I see nearly everyone who praises it just magically "forget" that it's supposed to be a hybrid, that it has a dock. Is that something people just phase out of their memory for glory's sake?

@Eddyson

yeah. it's what; a ps3.5 ish?

I'm not saying it doesn't deserve support but dev houses like EA/Activision are notoriously lazy. use engine a to crap out game b and put it on pc/ps4/xb1. the switch takes time and effort to get it to run bigger games. does doom still have that audio bug?

@Eddyson

yeah. it's what; a ps3.5 ish?

I'm not saying it doesn't deserve support but dev houses like EA/Activision are notoriously lazy. use engine a to crap out game b and put it on pc/ps4/xb1. the switch takes time and effort to get it to run bigger games. does doom still have that audio bug?

@electrolite77 If you look at PURE form factor, at the piece of machinery that holds all the important parts, it's a tablet. If you add the Joy-Cons, it's a handheld. If you dock it, I guess it "counts" as a home-console? But seriously, look at this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxUuDh5dOus

There is SO MUCH wasted opportunity there. It's literally 80% plastic. You could take that small cube of circuitry out of there, put it in a protective little box, and then screw that to the back of a 2-5 costing tablet holder: Bang, your dock.

Would you call something that's well-thought out and incredibly well made on one-side, but feels like a cheap, quick, rushed part to get people to have it "their way" and to be able to "play on TV" a hybrid? If the dock provided a meaningful contribution beyond being a much much more expensive HDMI cable, then sure, I can see that. But the current dock is just an overpriced accessory that isn't even required.

@Caryslan Nintendo. Will never. Go third. Party they will close first.which they said

How many times are you guys going to do a feature about this?

@Slim1999 In a way, they already have, since they are offering their games on phones now.

@MFD
Well i look at the switch as a tablet with detachable controllers, even the chipsets are mobile orientated, there isn't anything home console about it, just because it can play on a TV using a very strange hdmi contraption doesn't make it a home console. It only needed a straightforward hdmi cable
The GPD XD does the same as switch but nobody calls that a home console

@WhistleFish True, and by the very same definition, anything that has an HDMI cable for use should be a hybrid too. I'd argue Nintendo either has to make the dock a real, and valuable asset to the Switch, or make it have it's own bit of power, separate from the main unit.

@MsgBoardGamer "2. it natively plays the next generation of flagship video games in more or less their most advanced form (i.e., with the best graphics, sound, and gameplay mechanics)"

I've got a bridge to sell you then. Just about every multiplatform game runs worse on Switch, because it simply is behind the PS4/Xbox One hardware wise (base models at that), and it simply has less space for hardware parts.

So either you've got a towel tied to your head that covers your eyes when you play these games, or you never look at comparisons. The Switch compromises on the home-console experience to allow handheld users to experience theirs as well as possible.

It allows you to connect, sure but again, so does an HDMI cable. Push comes to shove, the Switch underperforms, significantly if you ask me, as a home-console, so as to allow it to perform stellar as a handheld. Nintendo's own games look fantastic on their systems, but then, they always have, just look at Mario Kart 8 on Wii-U.

Oh, and as extra kicker, it's FAR from guaranteed that the Switch will get the next generation of flagship titles. A good example of that, is you tell me where Monster Hunter World, Read Dead Redemption and I'm sure there are PLENTY more for Switch are eh?

I love the switch. Have traded my PS4 to get it. Best choice i made all year. I have enjoyed it more than any console since the original PS1.

My fiancee feels the same. She normally does not care for games and thinks there a little childish. The other day came down to find her and my daughter playing mario kart together. I joined in and we had a good hour of family time together. Loads of fun...... Later that night I was slaying vampires on skyrim whilst my fiancee watched her soaps.

It's the perfect console. If only the docks were cheaper so I could take it to my brothers...........😀😀😀😀

Excited for the next direct. If GTA 5 is announced I may be found dead from excitement. Playing that on the go will be a dream come true for me.

@MsgBoardGamer Because it isn't all about Nintendo games. Sure, Nintendo games are great, but did you handily FORGET what happened to Wii-U after third-parties dumped the console?

A healthy line-up of both Nintendo and third-party games are required to keep a console healthily stacked with games, since if you have JUST Nintendo, you'll either get a Wii-U situation, or since all the development will (probably, don't even know that for sure) go to Switch, you'll get that the quality of the games will take a hit, since Nintendo is forced to crank them out in order to keep momentum going. So either droughts, or loss of quality, take your pick.

@MsgBoardGamer And so we should ignore all else? Nice logic you've got going on there, pal.

I like how you ignore my points about the Wii-U situation and all that, good going. Also, the dock is a side-accessory and severely overpriced to boot. You can't argue with that.

Oh, and just to slap your own words in your face, these are yours "it natively plays the next generation of flagship video games in more or less their most advanced form" NEXT GENERATION FLAGSHIP GAMES that isn't JUST Nintendo, or are you going to disregard THE ENTIRETY of third-party next?

@MsgBoardGamer That division part is true, but the Switch itself barely has, if any, real merit as a home-console. It is the undisputed king of handheld, but can't even come close to the PS4/Xbox One base models. There's a reason why there are still quite a few third-party FLAGSHIP titles that aren't coming out on the system.

And sure, Nintendo games are the primary sales-drivers, but that doesn't take away that if Nintendo misses out on the big third-party games, it won't help their case. After all, GAMES sell consoles, why do you think Sony is as desperate as they were to get World exclusive on PS4 in Japan?

So what are you going to tell me next? That I'm not allowed to want the dock to be better than it is? that it's perfectly fine this way, how those playing docked get their experience diminished for those playing handheld?

@MsgBoardGamer I never said it was worthless, since that would mean it literally has NO merit. I said BARELY. Look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxUuDh5dOus You can strap that small bit of technology to the back of a tablet holder, sell it for half if not less the price of the current standalone dock, and you've got the same thing.

"Protects the Switch from damage" That's rich. I guess you must've "mystically" red over all those claims of it scratching people's screen and such? That's some damage protection alright, holy moly.

It does NOT reinforce the home-console concept of the Switch. The primary unit that matters is a tablet, with the Joy-Cons it's a handheld, and it can function perfectly fine without need for a dock. In fact, Nintendo could probably just put an HDMI cable with the current Switch, something to hold it meanwhile, and ditch the dock entirely, and people would STILL buy it in droves.

The dock doesn't do ANYTHING by itself. It's a side-accessory, which does not exactly reinforce the feeling of "Wow, I've really bought myself a home-console" no, it tells you "You've got yourself a handheld with a glorified, overpriced HDMI cable".

I don't look at sales charts, but as per this: http://nintendoeverything.com/nintendo-reveals-the-most-played-games-on-switch-since-launch-in-north-america/ There are plenty of third-party games that are getting loving, and I've got a feeling some similar sales numbers to go with it.

@mfd, a laptop or a desktop computer is not a hybrid because it can connects to a tv. The switch is both because when you connect it to the tv, the graphics are mostly better as a home console, while in handheld mode, the graphics are different. Also hooking laptops to the tv, the graphics are the same, just like hooking it to a separate monitor. The gba to the game cube is not a hybrid. Only certain games from the gba can connect to the game cube.

@MsgBoardGamer Sure, just ignore the clear faults I've pointed out with the docked part. As for the part you mentioned with Nintendo games vs third-party games in that list, I'll ask you plainly: does that make the third-party games less important? If you answer yes, then you must want Nintendo to go down horribly at one point or another. But you know what man, I'll leave you to wallow in your fanboy pool, peace.

@ekwcll Now I know for sure you're talking out of your bumhole. I play my Switch docked 100% of the time, and I can SEE all the faults with the graphics, whereas handheld people consistently tell me that the graphics are awesome in handheld mode. Going to more P on the Switch, just means you can see how bad the graphics actually are.

"Only certain games from the gba can connect to the game cube." A hybrid is 2 things, connecting a GBA to a Gamecube makes it literally 2 things, connected to one another. Since you can use the GBA with some of those games. Sure, it's just some games, but those games still fulfil have the Gamecube fit the definition of a hybrid.

That said, I'm cutting this pointless discussion with both of you short, since I might as well talk to a concrete wall, and expect it to tell me the definition of life.

Great soapbox. Agree. Got so tired of saying things like this to people in the WiiU era.....dont write them off, etc.

So many younger gamers need to read and appreciate the underlying message here--stop listening to/repeating trendy internet comments, and take note of history. Nintendo was here before Sony/Xbox, and isnt going anywhere.

Well, the Wii U was awesome, anyway. I don’t care what ANYBODY says. Those who missed out, really missed out on a ton of terrific games.

Switch is a Console you can take on the go IMO

@MsgBoardGamer I'm talking about that dismantling video about the dock, or are you telling me that the 80% empty plastic is worth 99 euros?

You want evidence for third-party? Why else would Nintendo bother to make it significantly easier for them to develop games? Why else is this a thing? http://nintendoeverything.com/kimishima-cautious-about-selling-10-million-switch-units-this-fiscal-year-third-party-asked-for-big-games-quickly/

They're really asking for big games quickly because they're so self-assured of their case, riiiiiiiiight. You think third-parties are irrelevant, but they're the SOLE reason why PS4/Xbox One sell the way they do, and their franchises are equally if not MORE flagship than some of Nintendo's stuff.

@MsgBoardGamer I see what kind of person I'm talking to, and I'll leave you to it.

@MsgBoardGamer You only care about what you perceive to be the truth, us discussing leads nowhere. Let's call it quits while we're still on reasonable terms, hm?

Well the haters even now are spouting some other nonsense about Nintendo being doomed as usual. It must get tiring for them with moving those goalposts and hopping from one excuse or reason to the next. You'd think maybe they'd have games to play on their 'superior' consoles instead of being on Nintendo articles constantly 😉

@MsgBoardGamer So you say third-party being less important is a fact? Sure. I'm going to politely request you to leave it at this, otherwise I'm going to have to use the ignore function.

@MFD

“Do you stand still to consider that the Switch also has the other side? I see nearly everyone who praises it just magically "forget" that it's supposed to be a hybrid, that it has a dock. Is that something people just phase out of their memory for glory's sake?“

Lol, wow, why don’t you back up a second? What I am saying is that it was smart to mix the home console business with their handheld business because they’ve always been the king of handhelds. It was smart to mix their weak business, with their strong business, was my intent in the comment. We all know what the Switch is and you’re looking for conflict where there isn’t any — Just cause I used the word “handheld”...

Find something better to do with your time, than overanaylize my comment just so you oddly feel better about yourself.

@MoonKnight7 You don't think there's an argument in wanting the Switch to be better? In wanting the dock to have some actual merit of it's own, rather than be what is now? (which is not a whole lot)

It's not a case about feeling better about myself, it's a case of genuinely wanting to know, if people excuse the Switch's performance when docked, just because it's handheld. If people are satisfied with how it performs, just because of handheld. THAT is what I want to know.

We've never had a "hybrid" console before, 2 groups what want different things from their respective machines lumped together, so there's a lot of kinks that come with that, and the Switch, as it stands, is just far more handheld than it is anything else, and I'm afraid Nintendo will never develop the dock if the majority is satisfied with it, since why would they waste their money on something people are happy with and they can sell for yet more money?

@electrolite77 Call it what you like, but can I also take that you think the dock as it currently is is fine? And that it's an equal hybrid in that both modes are equally good?

@MsgBoardGamer What is your aim? I don't get it. Nintendo sells best on Nintendo consoles, we know that, but if Nintendo were to ever rely on their development alone, somewhere, something would go downhill. Sony and MS rely on third-party software, and although Nintendo relies primarily on their own games, they cannot keep going on that alone. It would tire out their franchises in the long run.

@Euler There would have been a DS no matter what. In the past, Gameboy followed by Gameboy Pocket, Color and Advance. Gameboy Color came to get the Sega Game Gear's consumers on board (since the Game Gear was the colorized option). The only thing DS did was bring the DSI (The E-Shop) after the PSP was released...but DS was completely different. Sony made their's to feel like a console in your hand, where nintendo did it for the fun factor (which is why nintendo was the smart ones in the portable business). Other than that, there were many companies that tried their hands at handheld consoles in the past and present. Atari had 2 (each one was a big flop and was expensive), Sega had the Gamegear, Sony had the PSP, VITA and PSP GO. I'm sure there will be more that will try it, but the portable is where nintendo strives the most...it's the consoles that they need to approve on if they want to get a big crowd of consumers like Sony and Microsoft have (shouldn't take much to get the Microsoft crowds). I'd still like to see Nintendo and Sony working together, with also partnership from Sega...then all three of my favorite companies could demolish the competition.

@MsgBoardGamer I wouldn't say "far less" important though. If that were the case, why'd Nintendo put in all this effort to accommodate them? No, they are DAMN important in the end.

Switch did what the Vita promised - a full console experience on a handheld. And it's my favorite console now because of that

@MFD

Well it sounds like you know what you want, so there’s no point in discussing it further. You have your hands full anyway. It doesn’t matter what Nintendo makes, there will always be a faction of the fan base that disapproves.

@MoonKnight7 There are people who use one mode over the other, and I honestly don't see the appeal in playing handheld mode. It just risks my home-console by doing so, when I've got my 3DS/Phone for moments of being on my way somewhere.

But why not make it so people can use their preferred mode to max efficiency at the cost of the other? There are people who have never unwrapped their dock, and people who never remove their Switch from the dock, why not give them some love?

@MFD

You certainly like to talk a lot about something we already know. I have no idea what you want from me — I made a fluff comment that was by no means controversial and you won’t stop telling me the same thing, over and over again. Dock, no dock, handheld, not what I want — I honestly don’t care. If it really bothers you, then use those nonstop typing fingers to tell Nintendo.

@westman98 certainly. Why wouldn't the narrative change based on reality?

@gatorboi352
Because that narrative isn't based on reality; it's based on looking at 3-4 data points in a vacuum and plotting a "curve of best fit" on the data, resulting in a flimsy prediction based on insufficient data with no context.

No external variables are taken into account, such as the most important question: What is the Switch's successor going to be?

I can't say I feel Switch is all that superior ...yet. A few games look good, but there's still a few things WiiU has that Switch doesn't. Virtual Console, an internet browser, Video streaming aps, (like Youtube & Netflix) and backwards compatibility with previous games, download software, and controllers. (Not to mention, the controllers, and stuff are expensive, unless you get a wired Switch controller.)

I suppose it's nice games are the main focus, but it feels like you don't get much out of the $300 package compared to rival systems, and past Nintendo systems.

@Beau_Skunk Those are all features easily fixed with upcoming software updates.

The WiiU was a great console and we had a good run with it for 6 years.
It was just wrongly named and badly marketed!

If they had called with WiiU, the Wii 2 or something entirely different, it would have been a lot more successful and people would have instantly seen it as the "next" Nintendo console, instead of an expensive accessory to the Wii! /sigh

@MoonKnight7 Cool your gears, I'm merely discussing things. And mailing Nintendo just nets you automated responses, but I'm sure you knew that.

@MFD

"Cool your gears, I'm merely discussing things."

That's great — Except I wanted no part in the discussion to begin with. Glad you finally noticed.

@MFD so you want Nintendo to provide you with a stronger switch home console experience while also providing me with a stronger handheld experience? (i do not own a TV on my house boat so all my gaming is handheld)

i dont know this sounds like wishful thinking, it would be a hefty cost on Nintendo to split the two features and expect similar support on both, their handhelds would likely thrive a lot more if this were to happen, as they would never try to match the horsepower of a PS4 with a dedicated home console and 3rd parties wont bite, why would Rockstar or Bethesda or even EA remake their games on the Switch home console edition if they would need to put forth a reduced version of the copies already available on PS4 and Xbox One? the only reason they have done this now on the Switch in its current format because of the added feature of play anywhere handheld gaming, we know that already.

i suggest you continue to play the way you have been and if you require a more robust home console gaming experience then the PS4 is always there to scratch that itch, im sure Nintendo themselves would also be happy to point you to them as they have multiple times stated they are not in competition with those other two console developers.

@Razer Oh yeah, Nintendo's lovely dream of not competing. Listen, they market it home-console, they compete, it's as simple as that. And just in case you don't believe me, refer here: https://www.nintendo.com/switch/ "Nintendo Switch is designed to go wherever you do, transforming from home console to portable system in a snap."

As for home-console? Let me regale you with a patent by Nintendo themselves: https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2016/04/nintendos_supplemental_computing_device_patent_is_cleared_for_completion That patent solves it, by making sure that those who play home-console don't have to suffer the the compromises that those who wish to play handheld make.

Or are you going to tell me it's fair that my experience suffers so you can have yours? Since that's an inherent problem of the Switch as handheld slapped together with a "home-console" mode (yes mode), and a BIG kink yet to be worked out.

@westman98 based on what it ends up being, the narrative will form around that as well!

Look, there's no doubt that SNES sold less than NES and N64 sold less than SNES and GCN sold less than N64 (meanwhile the handheld division largely remaining strong). Then Wii came out and coupled with the DS success Nintendo "was back baby!!". Then Wii U came out and was hands down the biggest flop since the Virtual Boy sales wise while the 3DS isn't even close to DS numbers (but still comparatively good), and so the narrative shifted again. And now, with Switch having Wii-like success while also succeeding both Wii U and 3DS, the narrative has shifted YET again.

This isn't complex. Sure I'm making assumptions, but I'm also basing my take on what I've seen up to this point. Trust me, before Switch took off, I was of the belief that Wii really was merely 'lighting in a bottle' success. Not so much the case anymore though.

@Jeronan I think associating it with Wii confused people, and made them think it was a similar system, when it really wasn't.
WiiU had more "hardcore" titles, but was ignored, because gamers assumed it was mostly casual, because of the name, and the lack of casual games also turned off the casual market from it.
The lack of developer support for the Game Pad, and Wii-motes (Oddly, Nintendo themselves even kinda ignored making games that continued to support the remotes.) also kinda hurt it. I remember many developers & gamers even mocking the Game Pad, which is ironic, because it was more like a traditional controller then the Wii-mote & nunchuck were. Developers could've done more with It's touchscreen, microphone, camera, and such if they gave it a chance, but they wouldn't.

It's a shame the industry, and market shun uniqueness, (writing new things off as "gimmicky") the Switch isn't really very unique, aside from being basically a portable console, (which is a nice feature, but given the price, makes many people reluctant to carry it around with them, and it's not quite as portable as a 3DS) which is probably why it's doing so well.

At least gamers aren't bashing it's few motion games. I actually saw gamers bashing WiiU, and say they're "leaving Nintendo 4everz" because they're sick of motion-control games, even though WiiU honestly didn't have that many.

@MFD I would have to disagree with this completely, first this notion that Nintendo is still in competition with Sony and Xbox despite Nintendo's own admission that they do not compete and the added fact that even their console release times have totally changed since the WiiU, i mean what generation would you consider the Switch to be in? the 8th? so what about the WiiU, was that the 7.5th generation somehow? or maybe the Switch is the 9th generation of consoles and its competing with as yet unreleased hardware? - This is an important question because how do you expect a piece of technology to compete with something that is over 4 years old, has a huge install base of 70 million+ and is going to be past its peak soon (entering into twilight years)?

on top of alll that, there is also the fact that Sony themselves, Nintendo main home "competitor" in your eyes, do not even see Nintendo as their competition and have stated so by stating they do not intend to release a competitor to the Switch...:

http://fortune.com/2017/09/26/sony-nintend-switch-vita/

I don't really care if they do make a dedicated Switch handheld or a home console, i never said i want you to be a cry baby to better suit my needs, thats your own choice, that article you showed gives no indication that Nintendo intend to do what you say, besides that would be really stupid considering how strong their current format of the system is.

The argument of what the Switch is, home console or handheld, is down to the person using it, its you who want to dictate how the console should be made so as to fit your own needs but what about the people who play both handheld and in TV? i have many friends who do, in fact the vast majority fit into that category, would you suggest they have to pick up both versions separately?

Like i said, if you are not happy with Nintendo's current hardware, if it does not fit your needs, then you should just move on with your life, i sense a lot of needless angst from you in relation to this subject, but the likeliness of it happening i think is on par with the likeliness of the WiiU somehow becoming successful, you should save yourself the bother and move on.

@Razer Ah, so it's because they don't see Nintendo as competition that they're doing all they can to secure Japan, namely by having Monster Hunter World as exclusive there, I see.

That computing device is a win-win situation. People you describe buy a Switch and it's great. People who want extra buy the computing device and don't have to camp with frame-drops and the likes. Where is the wrong here?

"I sense a lot of angst from you" Through damn computer screen? You're really full of it, aren't you? I'm merely advocating that Nintendo do the docked part justice, instead of a mostly empty plastic shell. Woe me for wanting the hybrid to even itself out.

No, it's people like you that will have the console's future development stagnate and make it so Nintendo will never bother upgrading the dock, or even eventually ditch it. The fact that we're even arguing about this, proves that you don't just slap 2 different crowds together like that.

@MFD Well they probably do intend to make a more powerful dock at a later stage but i doubt it would be sold separately, it would more than likely be bundled up with a more powerful tablet thus giving the handheld experience a similar boost and by extension making the games more powerful and it would just continue as it is now, but more updated (essentially not solving your gripe with the system)

Plus what you are suggesting, to increase the golf in gap between the handheld and home consoles (to give home console a better experience by not being dragged back by the handheld), would also result in separate games with different features, this would split the user base nearly as much as having a separate handheld and home console division, which seems to be the opposite of what Nintendo are currently attempting to do which is combine their handheld and home consoles.

@Razer I'm pretty sure it would create the same situation as both Microsoft and Sony have with the PS4/Xbox base models and their X/Pro equivalent: A mode that allows it to run with the extra power, but only an extra.

Also, just to be clear, I don't want "superiority" of home-console over handheld, I just want the dock to 1. Contribute meaningfully to the home-console experience beyond what it does now and 2. make sure that the compromises these games take to be handheld do not affect the game when docked. That is is all.

@MFD well what Microsoft and Sony have done is actually what my first assessment was by building an all around more powerful console, but in Nintendo's case it would be with added power to both handheld and docked, like a Switch pro or Switchi or knowing Nintendo, they would just call it The New Switch :/.

You seem to be suggesting a more powerful dock however, with added bells and whistles that would normally accompany more powerful technology, this would like i said, result in separate games, some that couldn't be played without the added power of the dock and you may even get the reverse, games that cannot be played in docked. - The very reason you are upset is the result of Nintendo merging their handheld and home consoles, there is going to be a power drawback as far as a the home console is concerned with this regard.

increasing the golf in power with docked and handheld would result in different games 100% because even if Nintendo don't release separate games, you can bet your life that 3rd parties would.

@Razer What does the dock do right now? The tech inside is a converter, and that's just about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxUuDh5dOus

It doesn't need to empower the Switch to suddenly make games possible that weren't possible before, just make sure that the handheld compromises aren't affecting docked play.

Plus, I've sent Nintendo an e-mail before asking if they require third-parties to use both modes, and Nintendo basically told me it's up to them (Severed and Voez being handheld only games) So where's the shame in going docked only, even things out? They're allowed to.

@MFD well this isn't a logic i can agree with, not because its flawed, but because its doesn't suit my own preference and i can end the debate with you here. We are on different pages in regards to what we want from Nintendo. Good luck in getting what you want.

@Razer I hope they find a way to cater to both, but then this is one, if not THE main challenge with having a hybrid: You'll have people using either mode over the other due to their situation. How, if at all, will Nintendo handle this? I'm curious....

@MFD it will be interesting to find out, but let me just show you a different subject, one that has been playing on my mind and one that plays around this very topic.

"Home consoles are in decline", you may have heard this comment thrown about a fair bit, to be honest, up until recently its something that i thought might be stupid talk, but if you actually look at the numbers, something else starts to emerge.

consider we are in the 8th generation of console gaming (we wont count the Switch just yet), we are currently 5 years into this generation as of the end of 2017 with the release of the WiiU in end of 2012. So far here are the numbers as close as i can get them

WiiU 10m
PS4 70m
Xbox One 40m? (no official figures have been released)

This gives us a total of 120m consoles sold 5 years into the 5th generation of gaming Now lets look at the last generation, many call this the golden generation of gaming, they would be right when its all said and done if things continue as is.

7th Generation 5 years in was (start on 2011), this was the waning days of these consoles, they had almost reached their end numbers, both the Xbox and PS3 had around 120m until together around this time, if you include the Wii's sales (around 90m on its own), you get a number nearly twice as big as the one we have for the 8th generation at the same stage, we wont include end numbers because the 8th gen is still under way.

When you look at this, you start to realize what Nintendo is doing, its quite obvious that gaming is increasingly turning handheld, countries like China and Japan are normally first with these sorts of things but we are also seeing the trend in North America and Europe too.

People still want console quality games but they want them on the go, they want to be able to take that experience away with them, the numbers seem to show that console gaming maybe coming to an end, more so now that gaming PC's can be built for the same price as an Xbox one X and can be more powerful + upgraded to be so. Microsoft is noticing this trend and moving its IP's to PC, i hate to say it, but we could be in the midst of the waning years of consoles in the living room.

The reason why i did not include the Switch:

Because of this very topic, the Switch is a hybrid, the first true one of its kind, it isn't a home console because if it was i wouldn't be able to get it, and it isn't just a handheld because if it was you wouldn't be able to play it on TV. its in a league on its own, and i think this is where Nintendo are going, other may follow, the market is changing, we will have to wait and see what happens next

@MFD I would also like to add that being 5 years into the 8th generation of console gaming, we are currently at the lowest selling point since the days of the snes/sega genesis (4th gen), but back then the market was 1/3rd the size that it is today, so those sales figures back then were understandable.

@Razer Ok, let's get very logical and technical for a second. The Switch itself, that which truly matters and has the innards, is a tablet in form-factor. Add the Joy-Cons and it functions as a handheld. You cannot play handheld with the Joy-Cons, they're mandatory, but you CAN play table-top, basically a "smaller" docked mode with no problem.

The home-console part is a side-accessory. I've read countless times how people didn't even bother to unwrap their dock. It's not a necessary piece of the Switch, not a real part of it. That, is why I dismiss it as a home-console.

As for the Switch's evolution, what more can you do on handheld part? It might get smaller and more portable with better battery over-time, but other than that it's pretty much set. As a home-console it has whole swathes of room for improvement.

@MFD Yes but like i said i dont feel we need to engage in what Nintendo plans to do with the Switch going forward, like i said, our opinions differ in that respect, to answer your question, i honestly think home consoles have come as far as they can, but you already know that, you just cant bring yourself around to the reality of it.

Which brings me to the bulk of my last comment to you, what do you think the overall state of console gaming is so far? because you seemingly ignored that part totally, again going back to what you were talking about before, even though i mentioned i wont engage with you on that topic, at least not until you tell me what your assessment of the current state of home consoles are?

The reason i want that from you is because it will answer your question in what Nintendo are doing, the reason you swerved this topic is because you know it but you are afraid of it, the reason you are afraid of it is because home consoles are in fact dying (if you like home console gaming then you should be afraid of it, i would be too). Set aside what you think will happen to the Switch and Nintendo going forward... would you really think they would continue to support your method of gaming knowing that its dying out? honestly dude...

@MFD to summarize, home consoles are dying, so why would Nintendo support it with a robust home console experience?

If you think home consoles are not dying, then please can you show me the numbers that suggest so?

@Razer Honestly? Not a clue. So far I know the PS4 has sold pretty well, and the Xbox One... less so. I've always had Nintendo's stuff, handhelds included, and it's them I keep tabs on.

70 million PS4's sold, indicates to me that there's still plenty who want such an experience, honestly. I believe the console industry is just figuring out how to handle the meteor that rammed into it, that being phone games and how massive that's become. I duly hope that bubble pops at some point though, maybe that'll change things.

We don't know what happens in the future. For all we know, something happens that causes a severe decline in handheld gaming, which would cause a return of said console gaming, who knows. But the main advantages that a console have over a PC are still relevant, that being price, all games made to fit on said console, and exclusive games.

But at the end of the day, you're suggesting console gaming is to die out for handheld? Because then I'd say handheld is to die out due to mobile phones. In fact, the home-console bit may just be what helps Nintendo on that front, as they did have trouble dealing with the impact of said phone-games, so far I know.

@MFD Ok as you seem to indicate that you don't know which is fine because up until a few days ago i didn't either to be honest, there are experts in the industry that analyses such data - This topic is about home consoles, NOT handhelds.

70m ps4's sold, lets give a good figure for the xbox at 40m (many say they have barely scratched 35m though), and 10m to Nintendo for their WiiU, that's a market total of 120m home consoles that have been sold after 5 years.

5 years into the 7th generation and the figure was around 210m (7th generation ended on 260m home consoles and 220m handhelds), the 6th generation was around 190m after 5 years, the 5th gen (ps1, n64, sega dreamcast) had 150m after 5 years, the market was smaller then too, but 5 years was a whole consoles life normally.

All the numbers i just pointed out, indicate one thing, this generation has nose dived into Bowsers lava, home consoles are at their end game, it seems Sony will control the market there, i think the 9th gen will be below 100m total for home consoles, there wont be room for 3 companies, Sony will take that for themselves, Microsoft may move into PC arena and Nintendo have obviously taken the Mobile route.

So now that you have answered the question i asked, i consider your admission in not knowing a perfectly valid answer, i will engage on this topic with you again, but do you really think there is a need to continue talking about this?

Home consoles are dying bro, yes maybe mobiles have been the one to do it, some would say that PC's advanced too far ahead of consoles with a price that is too similar to ignore nowadays, this has had a huge impact, pc gamers outnumber console gamers 3 to 1 now if you include the fact that China is 70% pc gaming and 30% mobile, whatever the case maybe, what more do you want from Nintendo? why should they continue to support a dying fad, or a fad that can only really fit one company (PS4)?

@Razer So you'd want them to change the Switch into a pure handheld soon? Also you didn't answer my part about the Switch's successors.

And you're forgetting that the Switch is still fighting something in Nintendo's now chosen space. Mobile phones. They're not stopping any time soon, and if that bubble doesn't burst, then who knows what happens?

As for PC's, they still cost quite a bit of money to build a good one. Like, 1200 for a proper one, not even high-end. Compared to that, and keeping in mind that people's salaries aren't exactly skyrocketing, a console is still a more advantageous purchase for those who don't have buckets to spend. I don't see any of that "PC price catching up" of yours to be frank, not at all.

@MFD oh sorry i overlooked that question, i think the Switch in its current hybrid format is fine, a successor to this only needs to be more powerful with a few extra features. I'm happy that Nintendo have decided to merge handhelds and consoles together.

Also what the success of the Switch and the 3ds confirm is that despite mobile phones, people are willing and in many cases prefer to pay a premium for good handheld games.

The market for handhelds is much smaller now thats true, the argument i used on consoles can be used for handhelds too but i have also stated that Sony do not intend to compete with the Switch, because much like consoles the market is no longer big enough. It will become Nintendo's, i mean Sony have even decided to makes games for the Switch.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.polygon.com/platform/amp/2017/10/17/16488326/sony-nintendo-switch-game-tiny-metal-unties-label

I wouldn't be surprised if we see it the other way too

I dont know what type of pc youd be looking to build with that kinda money but you could build a perfectly good one for half that price that will play modern gen games.

@Razer Not the kind of games I want to play. I've had to do many upgrades to run Total War: Warhammer well on my PC, and it's still not good enough right now. RTS games just require power to render all that's on the screen, that's just how it is.

As for the merge, I would somewhat agree, if only the home-console part didn't make compromises on account of the other part, but then technology will probably even that out. That said, it should be said that, right now, it's really at the beginning stage, still in the kid's shoes.

I just hope that computing device is real, and it may very well be.

EDIT: About the PS4 and decline, this is an interesting thing to keep in mind: http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2018/01/ps4_sells_almost_six_million_units_in_just_over_a_month

@JLPick Perhaps the Nintendo DS wasn't a "direct response" the way the SNES was to the Sega Genesis. But I think there's an important difference between Sony and Sega developing their portable consoles. Unlike Sega, Sony had the distinction of beating Nintendo at its own game in the home console market. Nintendo knew Sony was a serious competitor, and that its entrance really could pose a threat to Nintendo's dominance in the handheld market. So they had to try something different from just another Game Boy. And the PSP was still very successful (82 million units sold), just not as successful as the DS.

@Euler I still own my PSP, though it's in it's box with the games stored away...just like my original Gameboy and the games for it. Other than that, Sega's Gamegear was to try and take over. During the 16bit war, Sega was on top (Genesis beat out the Super NES sales and was talked about more when I was even in school...being more geared towards older kids...yup, I'm old). Even though many nintendo fans don't want to believe it, Genesis beat it sales wise (at least in the US), but Sega began to ruin themselves with the various add ons and continuing gimmicks that drove them to where they are now. Atari tried their portables (very expensive and no real support), but it was Atari, and after the Jaguar was released (I remembered seeing games marked at $100 or more and the system marked at $600...and that was the early 90's), Atari was long forgotten...basically, people forgot about Atari after the NES arrived and blew everyone's minds away. Sony tried, but I don't think they were trying to dominate. No matter what, nintendo is geared towards younger audiences and families, where Sony gears towards more adults and families (there are many party and family-friendly games, just more Mature and Teen rated). I guess I love both companies and wished that Sega was around too, as I always ending up purchasing anything Nintendo and Sony does (besides the Virtual Boy, Gameboy Girl, PSP Go, Playstation TV)...there's just something about both companies. I'd love to see both work together, as they're two companies that never put each other down (remember when all 3 had magazines, Sony and Nintendo never put another company down and always praised each other, where Microsoft's was just putting down nintendo and Sony throughout each page)...I know Microsoft changed it's attitude now, but back then during the original X-Box, that's all it was.

@JLPick I don't know about the US, but the SNES decisively outsold the Genesis worldwide:

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2009/03/20/genesis-vs-snes-by-the-numbers

Nintendo and Sega had plenty of fun dragging each other through the mud back in the 16-bit era.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK0OFsWWzu4
https://www.mariowiki.com/images/3/3e/CrankysVideoGameHeroes.png

@MsgBoardGamer You make fair points, although I'd argue that BotW did not feature waggle (it featured gyro controls which are excellent and don't feel shoehorned). But I see what you mean about casual gamers. What I'm trying to say is, the audience Nintendo is attracting for Switch now seems to be more loyal to a Nintendo system than the audience Nintendo attracted for the Wii. So this is all good for Nintendo.

Sorry to say but Nintendo advocates quality and that's what I look for in my games. Before Switch, I couldn't care less about consoles, their power or innovation - I'd just buy the console that had the most games I was interested in. But now? Gotta say that Switch is undoubtedly my favourite console of all time. Everything about it sings to me and has continued to do so from day one. I'll admit, it didn't launch with the best line-up, but what it has now? It's enough to make me consider selling my PS4 on the spot. I'm only keeping my PS4 "just because" at this point but I've already cut off my PlayStation Plus Subscription. So... there you go~

Nintendo stop making consoles? Take that kind of trash talk to the moon. As long as Nintendo keeps making games and taking risks, we all benefit in one way or another. Whether we know about it or not.