It's been a slightly peculiar week in the gaming industry. Nintendo made an appearance on stage with Apple to announce Super Mario Run, which was both smart business and a strange landmark moment; it's not often you see Shigeru Miyamoto pitching a Mario game on someone else's stage. There's also the fact that, following neutrality with Android / iOS for Miitomo, Nintendo is giving timed exclusivity for iPhone and iPad owners; the instinct is that money has changed hands, though it's not impossible that it's down to development issues.
Beyond Nintendo, however, things were rather odd - in this writer's opinion - in the worlds of Sony and Microsoft. The PlayStation 'Meeting' this week was a rather muted affair, with a low-key pitch made for the PS4 Pro; the mid-gen iteration previously leaked with the 'Neo' name, it offers improved performance and upscaled 4K gaming. It's impressive on a technical level, using wizardry and smart design to produce improved images while understandably missing native 4K in the majority of cases; only more modest games, visually, will get close to hitting the UHD landmark without utilising the upscaling tech, though HDR colour will help across the board. Also revealed was the cheaper model 'slim' PS4 - so for $299 there'll be a standard PS4 system, and the Pro at $399.99.
The online reaction to the PS4 Pro, from a decent proportion of observers, was certainly negative. The issue for Sony is that it's iterating mid-generation, which is unsettling for quite a lot of home console gamers, and that it's got a tough job selling the benefits of the Pro version. It's interesting that tweaked models are common in portable gaming - Nintendo does it frequently - and also devices like smartphones and tablets, but there's unfamiliarity and discomfort with the idea creeping into consoles. The PS4 Pro and original models may share the exact same game line-up, yet not all will be happy at a perceived split of the PlayStation userbase.
The issue for PS4 Pro reminds us a little of when 3DS arrived - it looked similar to DS in form factor, and Nintendo tried to make the rather neat auto-stereoscopic 3D screen the big pitch. Yet you can't show someone glasses-free 3D without them using the device, and the marketing fell flat. For Sony, it was trying to showcase 4K gaming with the benefit of HDR, but doing so in a 1080p live stream that many were watching on computers and phones. Some 4K videos were put up on YouTube later, but you have to be interested enough to track them down.
What the Pro didn't promise was guaranteed 1080p 60FPS gaming in the biggest releases (as the leap in the system is in the GPU, not CPU), and it doesn't include a UHD Blu-Ray player, either. So while a decent number are impressed and have a pre-order down already, plenty were left underwhelmed and disappointed. Microsoft stuck the boot in, of course, with a tweet highlighting what its Xbox One S (also $299.99) delivers in terms of 4K features, boasting of UHD Blu-Ray support.
The oddity in all of this is how the argument has fallen into territory that, for many, is still irrelevant. The consumer take-up of 4K TVs is accelerating, and they're getting more affordable, but it's not quite the mainstream norm as yet - a lot of people are still perfectly happy with 1080p TVs. There's also the fact that the leap in technology is smaller (arguably) than the standard-definition to HD jump of the past. Yes, 4K looks great, especially when HDR is included, but HD can still look terrific when done well.
Sony and Microsoft are also fighting a console war with small margins, tech-babble and inconsistent marketing. Sony says all standard PS4s will have HDR support very soon, but what games or apps will support it? Microsoft may brag about its Xbox One S, yet it's releasing the 'Scorpio' in Holiday 2017 which will do native 4K gaming but is unlikely to have exclusive games beyond VR titles, so will share a library with the Xbox One. We're seeing a death of console generations, with gains getting more marginal in each system and Sony and Microsoft seemingly trying to mimic a PC gaming-lite model. It's exciting in some ways, but there's going to be confusion in that battle.
Based on reports and common sense, Nintendo is going to steer clear of that contest with the NX, and frankly it has to. Let's not forget that, at launch, Nintendo foolishly tried to pitch Wii U as a 'hardcore' system - apologies for the term - that would duke it out with Sony and Microsoft systems. Consumers aren't that naive, though, and within a year third-parties had walked and the Wii U had slumped badly after the launch window, a state of affairs it's been unable to escape. It was too expensive, too, but a key error was pitching it opposite more powerful rivals.
When you look at Nintendo's success stories across its history in gaming, it's often been in offering something unique and exciting. That doesn't mean the most technologically advanced or powerful, either - the Game Boy saw off rival colour portables with its games and battery life, the DS took off with innovation, likewise the Wii. Especially now, Nintendo cannot win a technological arms race with Sony and Microsoft.
Indications are the company knows that, with the broadly accepted understanding - even beyond more hotly disputed specifics - being that Nintendo's next system will be focused on flexibility (with portable and TV gaming capabilities) and likely innovation. We'll only truly know with all doubt removed when it's revealed, but talk of detachable controllers and that freedom to play on the go or at home could be - with extra bells, whistles and Nintendo magic - a hit idea for for the company.
We've written before about the need for mainstream success, which will likely mean earning purchases from plenty that get their triple-A fix elsewhere, in addition to gamers more used to the 3DS or perhaps even playing on their mobiles and tablets. It's not easy to appeal to such diverse audiences, but as we've seen in the past it's possible when innovation and enticing games are combined.
Price has to be another key area. Nintendo typically resists losing money on hardware, which is sensible; assuming that'll remain the case it'll need to be cleverly designed and economical technology. That brings us back to the point of avoiding direct competition - we can't see Nintendo getting close to pushing for 4K gaming, for example. It's not the Nintendo way, but it's also impractical. The DS and particularly Wii were affordable compared to other gaming systems; NX needs to do the same. It will ideally match or undercut the budget PS4 / Xbox One S, not because it's competing directly in terms of its concept or games, but because of perception. When people consider whether to buy a Nintendo system, often they don't expect a premium price.
All of that said, when NX is revealed some will compare it directly to PS4, Xbox One and their upcoming iterations. That'll happen, but we hope the comparison will prove to be moot - if NX is innovative, enticing and affordable, offering control options and gaming experiences different from those available elsewhere, then it'll be in a good spot.
The focus shouldn't be on whether it'll have a direct port of the most recent FIFA. It should be on what it's doing that's new and unique from other gaming options from Sony, Microsoft, phones and tablets.
This writer hopes that the NX opts not to compete, but to go its own way.
Comments 219
Unique and affordable doesn't always work. Affordable I can agree with.
Wii U was not a hardcore system. Nintendo lied about it and got caught out big time. Wii U also wasn't affordable. The NX has to be on par in terms of power with PS4, there's no excuse for it not to be and it can do so at a reasonable price.
Needs to be comparable in power to PS4 Pro/XBiggerboner and cost no more than $150 if they want it to sell.
Maybe $200, but I think even that is far too much.
Wii will just have to wait
What games it gets will decide whether or not I pick the NX up.
I'm at the stage now where I just want the thing to be announced so people can stop making crazy predictions about what its going to be. We've had a year and a half of every kind of rumour and I for one am very tired of this.
My level of excitement for the device is at an all time low. So hopefully it'll get announced soon with some quality titles to get the hype going again.
You will love it's 3D HD screen!
Admit I'm probably not the target demographic, but the main TV in my house isn't even 1080p. I also admit to never having knowingly experienced 4k. But to me it seems a stupid chase at this stage. Can't imagine Xbox Scorpio will manage 60fps at 4k. I'm assuming Nintendo has no interest in 4k at this time.
nintendo struck lightning with the Wii, and couldn't do the same with the Wii U. The NX doesn't have to be comparable to the other offerings but it must be unique. Nintendo has to actually release zelda, metroid, f-zero, something fresh and new. Nintendo has so much IP's and they are getting the title of a company that just rehashes games every generation. I'm sorry but with so many hardware choices and the PC market with steam has given nintendo more competition. Nintendo just can't give buzzwords anymore, or catchy lines, they have to give the gamers GAMES and they will hopefully buy it.
Either unique and affordable, or equally powerful and with a matching price. Either way could work.
@fiben1002 mint haha
I just want good Nintendo games.
Aslong as the machine has great software I'm sold.
But I agree they need to come in with a low price, and an original innovate idea.
And they need to show they are dedicated to the hardware, and not abandon consumers who have shelled out hard earned cash for their home console.
I love Wii U, but as an owner of one this year, I can't help but feel forgetton about.
Which I admit, partially I can understand.
But to a lot of Wii U owners, that could make them hesitant about buying an NX.
"It needs to be more powerful than the PS4 Neo, it needs to be half the price and it needs third party support. If it can nail these three things, then it will succeed." - anxiety.
If it's as rumoured I think it will avoid direct competition with PlayStation and Xbox
@XCWarrior Are your serious??
NX had to be as powerful as the PS4 Pro/ Scorpio AND be priced at $150-$200.
What????
@westman98 I think he's kidding.
I'm also thinking the NX, if it's the hybrid device as rumoured, will have a 720p screen on the handheld part with 1080p max output when it goes to TV to save money in at least one area. And, unlike my own idea where I thought it would be cool to make the handheld screen stereoscopic 3D so it could perfectly emulate the likes of 3DS and Virtual Boy games, I think it will just stick with simple 2D, once again to save costs. The 3DS aspect will simply work more like the 2DS aspect instead, in 2D, which is totally fine (it will still be able to play 3DS and Virtual Boy games). I definitely think there's a few areas Nintendo can save costs and still have a machine that delivers on being new, unique, and compelling.
So, just imagine my idea with a 720p non-stereoscopic screen and only 1080p output to TV, and with the detachable controllers as seen in most popular NX rumours included in the design, and sorted:
http://www.inceptional.com/2015/06/26/heres-the-gist-of-my-idea-for-nintendos-nx/
I see nothing about that idea that wouldn't fulfil all the requirements mentioned in the article.
Wholly agree with the points brought up in the article. That's the exciting thing about new Nintendo hardware: innovation. For better or for worse, the NX will be different, and that's exciting. We don't need a third clonic console on the market.
@gcunit Agreed for the most part, especially since the projected market share for 4K TV's is still expected to remain low for years to come (projected market share for 2017-2018 is only 27% max) so to go for that is indeed largely useless. Let's see them all hit 1080p/60fps without a hitch first, something that the current consoles still can't manage to hold in a lot of games.
And I also think that Nintendo isn't interested in 4K gaming at all. They need to perfect their HD performances first anyway, so they still have a lot of ground to cover...
The small part that I don't agree on is the Xbox Scorpio: with it's promised 6TFlops it will easily be able to do native 4K gaming, but whether or not it will be at a rock solid frame rate, will depend on the clock speed of the CPU and other components such as the GPU and the memory bandwidth.
@XCWarrior
Not gonna lie I feel this is a little unrealistic considering the ps4 slim is $300. If I get ps4 specs I will be expecting a ps4 price. If the hardware shines in other ways then maybe they can still pull it off at a lower price. But I don't mind paying for quality
Very Good Point! ^.^
Why sacrifice many things for "Power", when nowadays, "Power" is too expensive and as seen currently, NOTHING profitable.
Yeah, I'm not against ultra graphics, is very nice see beutiful escenaries, and see things (characters) with great details; but if, for this, price is high, not thanks; and worse, if this is the real focus for videogames nowadays, better I will totally play in smartphones (/sarcasm).
Power in a console should be to improve, expand the gameplay in first place, and Nintendo has shown that even low power can make games with great gameplay; and would be very nice if Nintendo will use that "Power", the possibilities will be Great!, but, I repeat, if this sacrifice Price, Time, included the same gamplay, well, I prefer as was before...
Balance is the better for the consoles: "Controlled" Power and Great Gameplay with accesible price for ALL (Company's Console and Players).
A cheap machine that does something unique. Like having a soft controller, ball shape that you can throw at the tv.
Or an expensive machine that plays as good as, or better than the PS and Xbox, with lots of unique Nintendo games and some easy to port third party games.
I'll pay the extra.
@BensonUii Same thought here. I can totally see the NX becoming something similar to the 3ds: a system that will attract Japanese devs first and foremost (especially their AA titles) while having slim Western support, mainly in the form of indies.
I agree. If Nintendo does not want to compete with the other consoles, they need to sell it affordably (around $199) and market it as a console with a ton of great exclusives. The Wii had both but the Wii U had neither, which is why it failed compared to its predecessor.
Nintendo always goes its own way, so no need for people to worry that they are going to follow the competition in any meaningful way.
However, going last gen power with new hardware certainly won't be the answer either, and besides: no matter what they do, the general public AND media will still see them in competition anyway, so in that respect it won't matter all that much.
My educated guess is that they actually WILL go full on, and bring a competitively powered console, but will add their own special brand of Nintendo magic to it, to still differentiate themselves from the other two offerings.
It will be a win-win: both a good system to provide for any third party that wishes to support it (and of course also for their own games, to make 'em look even better) and also a little bit of that Nintendo Difference to hopefully once again capture the imagination of both loyal Nintendo fans and the people that are now understandably on the fence on whether or not they should invest in another Nintendo console.
And, if the NX really is the hybrid (but primarily handheld) that is rumoured, it will be largely pointless comparing it to dedicated home consoles, which is really only a good thing for Nintendo at this point because in those areas it's simply not competed for a long time.
People keep thinking consumers will see the NX as underpowered next to the likes of PS4/PS4 Pro and Xbox One/Scorpio if it comes out and isn't at least around the power of say the Xbox One or PS4, but I don't think that will be the case at all if it's the hybrid seen in the rumoured images and is primarily viewed as a handheld device that can simply output to TV. With some clear and focused advertising I think it would be easy to get people to simply see NX as the most powerful handheld ever created, which I think is a much better and smarter approach for Nintendo to take.
It just needs to nail all the smaller and maybe less obvious aspects of the device, all the little things that could easily be overlooked but are important in creating a truly compelling and satisfying system, and make sure to get some great first games on it from day one (with a steady stream after release), as well as do its best to get as much third party support as humanly possible (ideally the AAA stuff but also all the indies too).
If Nintendo has learned anything in the past decade from the massive success that was the Wii U and the failure that was the Wii U, they should be fine. But considering they allowed so much to go wrong with the Wii U, even after the 3DS initially struggled, and his they've yet to address much of anything, I can't say I'm too confident.
Having a unique and good idea, being adorable, and having an aggressive marketing campaign goes a long way.
@tom_q I really don't think he was kidding.
@dparmar005 Banhammer incoming...
Nintendo must either compete with Sony and Microsoft or they can get out of the console business. As it stands they're dead last right now. In order for the NX to be a success it has to sell at least 20 million units within the first six months or it will stand no chance at catching up to the Xbox One. If Nintendo refuses to compete then third parties won't port their games and Nintendo will be back to the same situation they were in with the Wii U.
Nintendo is in the same place Sega was after the Saturn went bust. The major difference is that Nintendo has money in the bank to weather another failure. I foresee the NX being much the same as the Dreamcast. A revolutionary console with amazing games that fails to reach the mass market like Sony and Microsoft.
If its less powerful than xbox one then it's competing with Wii U tbh
I think Sony may have made their first major mistake (console wise) with the PS4 pro. I am finding it all very strange. It's only for people with 4K TVs and Virtua reality headsets as far as I can see. I am very interested in the new slim PS4 though. I'm thinking Black Friday.
The NX will be in competition with PS4 and Xbone since they're all consoles.
4K is still very niche, so I don't think Nintendo has to compete with Sony and Microsoft on that front. However, the NX could do with games running at 1080p and look as good as the original PS4 and Xbox One, otherwise many gamers will just view it as an underpowered machine that isn't worth considering.
@JohnBlackstar
Nintendo also has another ace in the pack. They are killer business men. Wii u may not have sold that well but Nintendo still managed to make money.
@atomicjuicer
It will be less powerful. That is how they will try to keep costs down. How much power is needed to run a video game? It'll be about the games as usual.
It needs to be able to compete though, so it needs to be equal or more powerful than those other consoles not only for 3rd party publishers but also because there isn't an excuse for it not to be.
Do they really need to compete on graphics to carve out a big enough audience? Or can they produce enough compelling software now they've combined their portable and home console divisions? The gamers who are obsessed with comparing PS4 and XB1 graphics have surely bought in to those machines already. To lure that crowd (fanboys or the types that comment on Digital Foundry articles even though they can't really tell the difference themselves anymore) they'd need to match Scorpio... cost less than £250... with amazing battery life. Ain't possible.
Nintendo's audience will be all about the games. That launch lineup better be stellar. Great reviews on gaming sites is their only way to survive the graphics comparisons which will happen anyway.
@Nintendo_Ninja Can anyone produce a portable that has PS4 graphics and doesn't die after 10 minutes? That's their excuse not to compete on graphics.
Hmm, this means cheaper non-Pro PS4, which I'm down with since I don't have some mega television monitor anyway. I'm curious how Nintendo will try to beat that.
@Mario_Fart
It doesn't need amazing graphics, just modern processing power and an actual hard drive.
And how exactly is the PS4 Pro set up to be a problem for the NX? Time has again and again proved that launching superior versions of older consoles with exclusive games is a stupid idea, to say the least. The vast majority of potential buyers have almost always in such cases already purchased the almost identical older version and those that haven't can still play it's games through backwards compatibility, meaning developers rarely care about developing games for it simply because they have so many more potential buyers if they develop it for the older version instead, meaning players don't have much reason to buy the new one.
Xbox will be Nintendo's main competitor next-gen, which is a good thing for both of them. Nintendo and Microsoft have had good relations ever since the Game Boy Color days, and and their consoles are as different as night and day.
"When you look at Nintendo's success stories across its history in gaming, it's often been in offering something unique and exciting."
I think we should really stop pretending that the Wii is Nintendo's history. Yes, on a small scale Nintendo was always up for marginal innovations, but at no point did it matter nearly as much as with the Wii. It was the right unique piece of hardware at the right unique place in time.
Actually, looking back just a single generation, to the gamecube, we can see a quite traditional system, that was actually more powerful than the PS2. I know, that is easily forgotten by now, but gen before last, Nintendo was very much in the "arms race" so to speak.
Yeah it didn't work out for them, though it's hardly self evident that this failure was due to the hardware itself.
Anyways, if Nintendo decides to steer clear of the "core" Xbox/PS/PC gamer market, it will find it has entered very narrow waters, because it will also have to stay clear of Phones/Tables/stuff like NV Shield etc. It will either create a new frontier, kinda like the Wii did, or it will end up rather boxed in.
Another BIG issue is 3rd-party support. If Nintendo is really takes itself out of the equation of the traditional market, meaning developers have to once more pour significant ressources into the NX and just the NX, without the ability to easily port content between platforms, then support seems once more unlikely, UNLESS the NX comes out the door like the Wii did - which at this point seems unlikely as well.
I think before Nintendo engages in any kind of high-concept strategizing, they should really consider fixing the more mundane issues that plague their systems these days. That should be the foundation from which to build a new temple ...
unforunately, knowing Nintendo and seeing what is happening (or rather not happening), they will forgo such mundane grunt work and aim straight for the big leap forward.
I'm worried that - tackling their problems this way - they've set themself up for another failure already.
As long as the graphics are on par/better than Wii U and the handheld part has a reasonable battery life it'll be fine for me. I play Nintendo games for gameplay and artstyle more than ultra real graphics. Also, question for those more tech savvy than me. If NX does use cartridges could extra chips be included to increase performance similar to SNES games or are cartridges just strictly storage only nowadays?
@Nintendo_Ninja I hear you about the storage! I wouldn't put it past them to save costs by skimping again - which is so irritating considering they have the eShop.
@Kirk So when you wrote your idea 15 months ago did you ever think you'd still be waiting 15 months later to find out how close you were? I'd wager you thought "before or at E3". Crazy, huh?
#justtellus
@rjejr It seems NeoGAF has gone insane from the lack of NX news and invented a new word, Nintentorture
Nintendo doesn't need to be the most powerful, or necessarily the cheapest. It needs 3rd party support and a lot of it.
Nintendo is one of the best developers out there but they aren't immune from making a bad game here and there, and they certainly can't carry a console all by themselves. No developer can do that.
They need 3rd party devs making good games, that can carry the NX between Nintendo games, and increase the player base. If they go it alone again, the NX will struggle the entire way.
I think that with the right games a console that is "unique and affordable" will always take off. As much as I love the Wii and how successful it was I never felt like I was treated the same as a PS3 or 360 owner. Sure the Wii had unique games, among them was a decent pool of excellent ones, but a lot of them were concepts that weren't fully realized either, even if it was that tiny flaw or two that kept them from being truly remarkable experiences. Perhaps it's selfish of me to expect more, but I think people who choose to play Nintendo hardware should have access to just as many games in their intended form as the competition and unfortunately that means it needs to have comparable hardware.
How will they do it? Well if rumors are anything to go by porting will be easier than ever before which lightens the need for particularly powerful hardware. When the console gets an install base it'll be up to devs to deliver quality games, but the easier it is to get the game on the system the better. Let's just hope the NX doesn't get shunned because it's not exactly the same as its older brothers, or even worse, gets loaded with "shovelware."
@rjejr Tell me about it; and I actually came up with the idea some time before I finally decided to write it down too. In fact, the stuff about the creation suite was something I was thinking about before even the original Wii came out—not that I think the NX is going to have any of the creation suite stuff anyway. So, it feels like I've been waiting a real long time in one way or another.
#justtellus
@ralek85 Agree with your assessment on point that Nintendo has not always been innovative to be successful. The only two innovative consoles that were successful were the Wii and NES.
@Mario_Fart @Nintendo_Ninja You know SD cards are super cheap though, right?
Seeing as it's primarily a handheld, then yes they are indeed avoiding the current arms race between Sony and MS. That's a good thing considering they'd have absolutely no chance in said arms race from their current position.
It'll be less powerful than the Xbox One, but will be the most powerful handheld ever and will support modern engines like Unity and Unreal Engine 4.
As for third party support, don't expect much western AAA support at all. It'll be Japanese 3rd party support and indies.
I just want them to show the darn thing so I can have something to talk about gaming wise OTHER than mid gen steps and VR I can't afford . . .
I think they’ll at least try to be on par with PS4 in terms of power, the PS4 slim is 299, so a 299 Nintendo console should do.
What I think they could do to mask the price of the console, if the hybrid thing is true, is to make the portable part as powerful as a Wii U (or more), that way they could sell it for 200$, while the dock, that powers up the portable part to be superior to PS4 but not powerful as Pro, could be sold for 100$ as a separate component, or buy both things in a single package for 250$.
@Ralek85 Nintendo has been pretty innovative with almost all of their consoles, with a few exceptions, those being Gamecube, Wii U (It’s just a bigger version of a DS in a poorly executed way), Gameboy Color, Gameboy Advance and 3DS.
Nes introduce the controller.
SNES introduce an upgrade controller with more buttons, R & L being the most important of them all.
Virtual Boy, it was a nice try xD
N64 introduced the joystick, C buttons and a single button that helped Ocarina become what it is today, the Z button (You want a truly hard Zelda experience? Play without Z targeting).
Without Wii, motion controllers wouldn’t be as popular as they are (Every phone has a gyroscope for no reason at all).
Game & Watch, more a toy than a gaming console, but it was the first step.
Gameboy, the truly first portable gaming console. (Atari’s Lynx was superior but well, you know how it goes, it came a few months later than Gameboy, sorry Atari)
DS, dual screen and more important, the touch screen.
Yes, we had some of those things before, but they were poorly used or poorly developed, innovation does not equals invention, equals using something in a different way.
@XCWarrior I think it should just be free with a multipack of Doritos
They definitely need to market it as an all-in-one alternative for families. "Little Tommy is in the middle of a boss fight on his TV but it's time to go to Grandma's? No problem! The Nintendo NX plays on the TV and on the go!"
@XCWarrior That's completely unreasonable. There's no way you can expect any console with the power of at least the PS4 to be between $150-200. They'd be selling the console at a loss, which is not only bad for them as a company but equally just as bad for consumers as diminishing returns for Nintendo mean less games for us and less new IP's. Quit being stingy and be somewhat realistic here. $300 sounds a lot more reasonable and it's still adorable in the day and age.
@Ralek85
Yeah, it seems since the Wii, history has kind of been rewritten to say that Nintendo never makes powerful consoles, yet:
NES: "Now You're Playing With Power"
SNES: "Now You're Playing With Super Power"
N64: "The Fastest, Most Powerful Games Console on Earth"
GC: Err, can't remember its slogan, but it was very powerful for its time.
@Lucina
Especially with people spending $600 on phones....
Sony is able to price the PS4 slim at £259. So really Nintendo has no excuse for making the NX less powerfull! And this writer said HDR is not a big difference compared to normal HD... wrong, it is a massive difference! look at the comparisons... the difference is amazing! and I watched the playstation meeting on my 1080p TV... just because your monitor isn't 4K, that doesn't mean you can't see the difference in the stream! But yeah obviously you can only truly tell if you look at a real 4k monitor. Overall I thought the playstation meeting was good.
Even if you don't have a 4k tv, the games will look better and run at a better frame rate and it will run better. You said there is a split between pro owners and original ps4 owners... how? There will never be exclusives on the pro (as Sony is not allowing it). There is no segregation online either.
Hardware power isn't innately important, but a strong, diverse software library is incredibly important, and Nintendo simply can't offer that on its own. They need third party support, and third party support requires hardware that is in the same ballpark as its direct competitors.
So, yes, to some extent they have to play the power game. Ignoring larger industry trends will only lead them further down the path of irrelevance that started when they opted for cartridges over CD-ROMS in the fifth console gen. And, frankly, even when they did succeed one time by bucking industry trends with the Wii, their innovation didn't exactly change the course of the industry. Microsoft and Sony dabbled pretty heavily with the motion-control thing, of course, but that has largely fizzled out, and it was the focus on online multiplayer and HD gaming that really pushed the industry forward.
With that said, I can see some value in Nintendo going their own way if they offer something really compelling that their competitors can't. That's why I think the idea of a true handheld/console hybrid that plays to Nintendo's strengths with handheld and social gaming could really take off for them.
Nintendo need to price the NX between £100/150 here in the UK, due to the fact that no one outside the hardcore Nintendo fan is going to drop £200+ just to play a few Nintendo games.
The NX needs to be priced so it can be an impulse purchase. The cheaper, the better. It's the only way Nintendo will get mobile gamers to purchase the system. Otherwise it's just going to be DOA if it's expensive.
@-DEMISE- I totally thought I had to strap on a USB HD! bwahahaha! In my defence, I was quite stoned for the last 3 years.
God, someone announce this thing already so I can commit to upgrading to a New 3DS while giving the NX library the side-eye for 6 months.
@123akis
"Nintendo has no excuse for making the NX less powerful"
If the system is portable, the form factor will inherently limit the power. That said, there is no "magic number" that says it has to be exactly as powerful as this other console or its bad. What matters more than power is ease of porting. Low costs and known architecture will go a lot farther than power ever will (that being said, ports aren't as important as people may think- I'll get to that).
Also, Nintendo needs more than just their own games to keep a full library rolling out, but if this is a hybrid that inherently doubles the internal output in and of itself, meaning much less reliance on third party ports. Factor in 3rd party exclusives that their handhelds are known for, and NX could provide an equally large and robust library as PS4 or X1 without ever seeing a single multiplatform title ported.
That is what they should be striving for. 100% independence of multiplat reliance. Equally compelling library of similar scope and size as other consoles, yet 100% exclusive. Consolidated 1st party output + 3rd party exclusives + occasional big name multiplat = market security for life. No PS/Xbox gamer is going to buy an NX over the exact same games they already have, and have the best version of. But different games they can't already play? Now that's a legitimate proposition. Long as they have a robust library with different games than what's offered elsewhere (at a lower price than other consoles), I can't imagine anyone wouldn't be interested, be it Nintendo fans, PS/Xbox gamers, or casual joes alike.
The handheld/console idea worries me a bit because of pricing.
My wife and I both have a 3DS, our kids have a 3DS (well, used to, he lost/broke several) and a 2DS.
I can imagine there are many houses with more than one 3DS in them. The console capability will obviously add cost to the unit, but is it needed for every unit if there are several in one household?
If the connectivity/local play is done right, surely you need a 'master' unit and to offer cheaper 'slave' units with less or no console capability.
The 3DS seems to be in rude health still, while the WiiU is gently being put out to pasture, so I not convinced about the hybrid rumours just yet.
Oh and totally off topic, I can't for the life of me get this site to show my avatar the right way up. Grrr.
@Grumblevolcano What do you think the odds are of my typing Ntinedotorture correctly?
Thanks for the laugh. They should put up a picture of me in there next to the word as a verb, or is it adjective? Nintentortured
I was tortured just trying to type that one.
I'd rather the NX be able to support VR than have 4K, whatever that is. I'm not upgrading my PS4 either when I just got it.
@Dakt Agreed, up to a point. Except they've purposefully restructured so they don't find have to support 2 different systems at the same time with NX. Throw in some Japanese developers and a large enough indie base and - fingers crossed - they'll survive without those Western ports which get destroyed in the media for not having enough pixels.
I wonder if Western AAA developers even have the means any more to create bespoke games for a 3rd machine, game budgets being what they are now. If NX goes huge then maybe. But they know they can't rely on that anymore.
@Dakt If the NX is indeed hybrid, they will have all the home console plus handheld first-party output, plus Japanese developers that have historically supported their handhelds. That should be quite an acceptable release schedule when it comes to avoiding dry spells.
I really agree with what @JaxonH posted up there at #69, and this is what currently makes me optimistic.
Does anyone get the sense that the old Xbox vs PS4 graphics war has calmed down recently? Xbox was getting gleefully destroyed by fanboys with every multi-plat comparison and maybe now Pro and Scorpio will start making that conversation a bit more redundant (I'm starting to see comments like "my OG PS4 is plenty good enough"). Have we peaked? Generational leaps are getting less and less perceptible and we're looking to VR and display technology for new ways of seeing. And some of the best gaming experiences these days are remasters or indies. Maybe we are finally ready for something 'good enough' in a way we weren't even 6 months ago. Or not.
@Kirk NX is never coming out, my kid and I had a long conversation today about corporate take-overs and decided Apple would buy Ntineod and release the NX as "iGame".
@rjejr
There was a guy in our chat who was always going on about how NX was going to be this collaboration with Apple. We used to tease him for it (just playfully) but he got all upset and stormed out of the chat.
Plot twist: he was right all along
@rjejr
My question is how will Zelda BotW look on the NX vs the WiiU?
My fear is that being a game designed around the WiiU first and foremost it'll look the same on the NX. Which will send a mixed message that the NX is just as powerful as the WiiU. No doubt the NX will be more powerful than the WiiU. In Zelda BotW, I really really hope it shows.
Graphics are nice but gameplay and story are more important to me. Some of my favorite Nintendo games are Link's awakening, super paper Mario and eternal darkness. All outstanding games that don't need to rely on graphics and I still replay to this day.
Oh yeah, because avoiding direct competition has gotten them in some WONDERFUL places these past few years, hasn't it? Nintendo's current state in the home console market is just sooo amazing. It must be sooo awe inspiring, since every mainstream consumer is silent.
The Wii U was doomed as soon as Nintendo revealed the official name for it. Hopefully the name, marketing, well damn near everything should be on point for the launch of NX. Price won't matter to me because, as of right now, I have little interest in it.
I also plan to buy a lot more games for Wii U and the backlog on my U is considerable already. What would peak my interest in NX is which and/or how many Nintendo franchises will have games made for the system: Metroid, F-Zero, Golden Sun (I can dream lol), etc.
I wouldn't be too surprised if they sold the base station of the NX as a separate accessory and made the handheld standalone. With that they could aim for a higher combined price.
PS4 level graphics with at least 1TB space and great launch games with great Japanese third party games = win
While my first instinct is to say that Nintendo doesn't need the power to attract those "AAA" third parties, I remember the burning desire to see WAY better graphics and performance on Monster Hunter. It almost hurts to see Felynes and other fluffy beasties still without fur shading.
They need to get real, hybrid or not, it will be competing directly with the PS4 Slim and Xbox One. In 2017, it is almost mandatory to have at least parity with 2013 hardware power. The good news is they don't have to worry with Pro or Scorpio.
@Haywired
NX: The world's most powerful totally portable dedicated gaming console.
Nintendo can say this as the iPad/iPhone is productivity first and gaming second.
Also, not being able to run the latest FIFA is a big deal. Sport games are very important, for many players not having them is an absolute dealbreaker!
Overall, the article just seemed to tick all the Wii U boxes. Is that what we want again?
Well i was so disappointed with the first mario gamenin wii u. It wqs almost exactly super mario bros 3 from nes. I didnt even play it half way through. Whatever they releqse as nx just release some original games in the first 12 months and people will buy it. My wii u sat in yhe shed for 2 yrs. Didbt see any games worth buying
@BiasedSonyFan not very good pc's... but yeah pc like.
@Dakt
Wow, Congrats for owning a Wii U. Me have Wii U too.
Well, so far i got 4 Wii U games but will be 8 titles soon. Also, i add with Wii titles to maximize the Wii U potential.
@Handsomistic15
Yeah, i think name branding is much like Feng Shui if you believe in that. Some name combination can lure more good luck or vice versa.
So, does anyone remember this ?
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2014/05/nintendo_creating_a_new_console_for_emerging_markets_including_china
Is the NX that ''cheap'' console that aimed emerging markets that Iwata talked back in 2014 ? It's kinda make sense now with the ''leaked" specs.
@Samurai_Goroh : I agree. I know this is a nintendo love fest on this site, but to dismiss the ability to run FIFA? That game is a huge deal globally. But I'm not surprised. The Nintendo base at this point thinks the other consoles are producing nothing of note. Look at the yearly iterations of NBA 2K, with 2k17 looking ridiculous with its feature set. Look at Tomb Raider. Look at Fallout. If Nintendo wants to be taken seriously again, they need a truly diverse lineup and as many games as possible. Another Mario and Zelda is not fixing their situation.
@Cyberbotv2 Nintendo needs to bring back their sports games NBA Courtside, Ken Griffey baseball, and more. Or make a better effort to bring 3rd party sports games to NX. Wii U had only one NBA 2K and Madden game each, and no wrestling game at all; that's just sad.
@XCWarrior delusion has set in big time.
@bolt05 it's a personal taste, I frankly still don't see many interesting titles for PS4 and almost 0 for Xbone, I will be getting a PS4 in the near future, but the point is, there is no killer app for me, not yet, some loyalists or "hardcore" may call blasphemy, but personally it's just not there for me.
On the Flip side I have 25 games for Wii U and many eshop titles, I value my Wii U a lot. So we don't have the same opinion, doesn't make a console less valuable or useless to the right customer.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE canot bleeve u didn't get 1st coment u always get1st coment on every articles comon get ur gane on
@cfgk24 #6, @Kirk #17 - The glasses-free stereoscopic tech of the 3DS, especially with the "super stable" head-tracking tech of New 3DS, would be nothing short of amazing with a 6" 720p screen!
It would look so crisp and real compared to the tiny 3.53" and 4.88" screens with 400x240 resolution on the 3DS!
@getyourak #81 - I wouldn't be surprised if Z:BotW on NX looked mostly the same as on Wii U, but in that case I would be surprised if it didn't have a bump in resolution to 1080p and a stable framerate and longer draw distances and higher quality in some effects like shadows.
= Things that would in effect make the game look far better, even if the art assets were in fact the same.
(Compare to the 4K BotW press images. Those have the exact same graphics as on Wii U, only a higher render resolution. The effect of raised quality is staggering. 1080p would do the same trick as compared to the 720p on Wii U.)
@King_Johobo I'd rather the NX continue to provide fluid beautiful 1080P 60fps gaming
I have a feeling that it's going to be around $300-350 but god I hope not. If it is fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me.
@Moshugan I agree with all of those points that it would help to make it look better. I think the thing that would have the biggest impact - and also biggest technical hurdle is adding more vegetation (grass, shrubs, even insects in the air) that the original reveal at E3 back in 2015 showed.
Here's a Zelda BotW image that just shows how much of a difference extra vegetation makes:
https://poweruponline.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/the-legend-of-zelda-wii-u1.jpg
Considering that even the most powerful hardcore PC gaming rigs in the consumer market today cannot natively process at 4K resolution at 60 FPS for the most technically demanding games on the hardware itself, the current 4K resolution displays are honestly not reaching their full potential yet anyways. The PS4 Pro and Xbox Scorpio are going to be outdated hardware already by the time they release, so they're definitely not going to accomplish that lofty task either. They're really only going to be able to process at a lower resolution, then render it unto the display, upscaling to 4K resolution, perhaps using VSR (virtual super resolution). The Sony and Microsoft marketing completely sidesteps this issue, of course.
http://www.hometheaterequipment.com/beyond-hdtv-2k-4k-more-48/truth-about-4k-upscaling-4k-2841/
http://www.reviewed.com/science/upscaling-the-science-of-bigger
I think it's the right decision for Nintendo to go with cards and flash memory (solid state) instead of discs or mandatory hard drive installations (which load too slow these days), opting for a machine that can natively render everything at 1080p with 60 FPS. (Which is still not necessarily an easy task by today's standards, depending on the game's processing requirements.) If Nintendo's engineers can accomplish this while creating a unique product, at $350 or less, they will have something the others cannot offer. Of course, Nintendo's marketers need to get their butts in gear, and NOT screw up this time!
I agree with every word. Well said. Every gen I'm rooting for Nintendo the most. They've the ability to be wildly successful as they've been in the past. It's just the execution. I'm a fanboy(man) for sure. But I've always be able to relate to their games and consoles more than others, save a certain blue hedgehog. Now is the hour Nintendo!
FYI I have a PS4 and am bored to death on it mostly. Play my 3DS more.
Actually PS4 Pro = New 3DS
Now we know why Sony didn't announced PS4 Pro at E3, it's not exciting at all. They announced it 2 hours after Apple's Event so the media will be flooded with Apple's news and hope that no one will make any comment about it.
I agree with the writer completely on this one. In a current gaming landscape dominated by tech specs and techo babble, what Nintendo really needs to do right now is make everyone remember that we play games to have fun and higher tech specs do not equal more fun. There are mountains upon mountains of 8-bit and 16-bit games of yesteryear that are still just as enjoyable to play today as they were the day they came out.
For more complex and story focused games graphics can certainly play a key role in story telling and making the world feel believable to the player, but you don't need 4K (or even HD for that matter) resolution to pull that off. Developers have been putting out wonderfully fun and engrossing 3D action and adventure games since the days of the N64, original PlayStation, and Saturn; and I'm fairly certain that the NX will have graphical capabilities greater than any of those systems.
As long as Nintendo does what they do best and make an affordably priced system that's fun and engaging to play with then the tech specs won't matter, they'll still sell just fine. =)
It's funny because, correct me if I'm wrong, this is the first gen where a more powerful console has taken the lead, in terms of sales. Every other gen a weaker console has come out on top: SNES, PS1, PS2, Wii, Gameboy, DS, 3DS.
Now it's PS4, now moving ahead with PS4 Pro v XBox Scorpio and waiting to see what the NX is.
What some fail to remember is Nintendo home consoles have been on a decline since the N64. Besides the lightning in a bottle Wii their systems are right on track and unless the NX can somehow pull in the phone crowd (casuals) then I don't think it will sell any better then the Wii U did.
Now lets see if lightning can strike twice!!
Gone are the days when companies battled for pure tech power or even bottom lines. These days it's all about brand power and mindshare.
In a year where VR was supposed to be the next big thing but proved to be an alpha level market which was just too expensive, 14% of the population of the earth decided to download a Nintendo franchise to their smartphones.
To say Pokémon Go is huge is an understatement but any signs of it slowing down are greatly exaggerated. I still see hundreds of people every week playing it at my local park of all shapes and sizes. Families, older people, kids and teenagers are all sharing the same experience but crucially it is a Nintendo property constantly taking headlines and mindshare away from Sony and Microsoft. The PS4 Pro isn't even in the top 10 gaming headlines of the summer.
Super Mario Run is a less discussive topic than Pokémon Go but Nintendo are following the money as they always do. Who is really being left behind here?
@Nintendo_Ninja smartphones, the DS, the Gameboy, the PS2 and the Wii all have proven that power means squat and compelling software sells consoles.
The first really compelling WiiU game? Splatoon.
Not competing directly with Xbox/PS4 makes sense. Let's face it, the only reason for doing so would be third party support, but third parties are not going to publish their games for 3 consoles in these times anymore. The only time I recall them doing that was in the PS2/Xbox/GC era, and that didn't last long for GC. So competing directly with them will just be a waste of their money.
I do hope it is at least as powerful as the original PS4 though (which to me has great looking games despite its age). The age old problem for Nintendo is how they fill their system's games lineup without support from all the 3rd parties. Only having one system for Nintendo to support will help, but not solve.
I've said before that if the NX can support an existing marketplace of 3rd party games (e.g. Steam) then it doesn't need direct 3rd party support from publishers. Unfortunately this idea was shot down by people on here. I won't pretend I understand the technical reasons this is unlikely, especially if PCs with about a million different possible spec variations can do it, but it's a real shame. It would solve Nintendo's biggest issue. I'm still dreaming the reveal shows an 'unprecedented partnership' between Nintendo and Steam with NX functionality built into Steam's design. It would certainly be worth it from a monetary perspective for Nintendo, Steam and the 3rd party publishers. Maybe that Nvidia chip rules it out completely now? I certainly don't know, but hoping for direct 3rd party support in today's day and age for a Nintendo console of any spec is even more wishful thinking in my opinion.
@Spoony_Tech
What some fail to remember is that when you have to take a piece out to show a trend then it isn't a trend.
The Wii is called a fluke and whatnot, but if you go back to interviews and the like you realize the Wii and DS era was carefully planned out. It was about having non-gamers play games and they succeeded.
@cfgk24 oooooooo I'd not even thought of it possibly having a HD screen using the New 3DS screen tech. That would be awesome
Very annoyed with Sony and Microsoft this generation.
They've taken what the console market is all about and devolved it into a watered down mini-PC model.
The mere concept of the Pro and Scorpio are a complete joke. They should either have held off the release of the original PS4 and XBoxOne until they had developed the VR and 4K far enough to include from the outset or leave it out until next gen and let this gen run for 5-7 years without it until 4K was more established. Buying a completely new version of the same hardware and introducing a division between users of your user base is just insulting to the people buying your hardware.
Video gaming gave you the most appropriate and creative hardware at that time at a competive price and THAT was your hardware for 5-7 years, of which the price would steadily fall as the profits and install base grew.
It was then down to the software side to constantly improve and develop what could be done with that hardware. Hardware being "maxed out" on day one is just lazy and sub par developers dependent on over powered hardware.
Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo. Give us the hardware.
Everyone else, be better at you jobs. Not naming names, but EA!!!! Jesus.
@Spoony_Tech strike twice??? Probably not. It would be hard to do as poorly as the wiiu did. I just hope we can get sales figures that they and at least Japanese third party's are happy with.
@DESS-M-8 By the time Scorpio releases it'll have been 4 years, if you're to complain about that you must also complain about Wii U.
@Rin-go I agree that it wasn't a fluke. A lot of hard work went into it but luck is always a factor. I think even without the luck they would have surpassed the n64 but I don't think they would have broke 100 million with out it.
@Grumblevolcano the difference is the wiiu is a bomb and the Xbox one is doing well enough. It's all about perspective.
@Moshugan I agree, and it's actually very cheap to include, but I expect Nintendo would/will skip it to save a few pennies.
@faint Unless somehow Wii U owners are not getting left behind, that does not matter.
@DESS-M-8 YES! None has thought about it ! Nintendo already own the patents on the 3d screen - IT's now cheap to manufacture. IT's not essential but maybe nintendo own games will support the feature if Indies don't want to program ed.
But also, 3d TVs are now cheap and 3d projectors for gaming too! It may turn out that the most amazing gaming experience will be on NX! Some of the 3d fx on 3ds are so beautiful - I will really miss them if the console goes 2d - I can't imagine how incredible games would look in 1080p 3d! Not only that but the NEW 3ds 3d feature is a huge improvement on the original 3ds. .
@faint
Luck is of course always a huge factor. Everything that's successful also had a huge chunk of luck.
I don't get how you can look at the gaming industry now and keep on shouting for more power. How about using what you have to the fullest before setting the bar even higher? Consoles should stay consoles and not try to become pseudo-PCs.
And I'd argue that the Wii U is indeed a "hardcore" system. I know this will be controvertial, but look at Nintendo Land. Mini-games based on franchises like Metroid and F-Zero is more enticing to "hardcore" gamers than "casuals", who might not even know those franchises.
I think that having CoD and FIFA on the NX won't make much of a difference, as long as you won't be able to play online across different consoles. If your friends play CoD on PS4, then you'd buy a PS4, too.
@Grumblevolcano the Wii u is being superseded entirely and needs to be.
The ps4 pro and Scorpio are not a 0.5 upgrade, they are a re-iteration of an existing console. Don't confuse the pro with the NX. 2 completely different things.
If it brings us good games, which is what it's supposed to be all about in the first place, that is all that matters. You can have all the power in the world but that won't stop a turd being a turd. It's just a more detailed and prettier turd.
Oh yeah, the whole premise behind consoles is put the game in and play, not install, download the patch then play. If it nails the first part I will be happy. If I wanted to install games I would buy a PC.
@getyourak #106 Oh yeah, adding more foliage is a good point! And it should be a matter of cranking up a setting in whatever engine editor they are using.
Also, a higher draw distance for the foliage will go a long way. I think most close up shots of the environments in the E3 2016 Wii U demo look great, but the long distance landscapes look pretty barren, since most of the foliage isn't rendered, save for trees.
I think the situation might be similar to most other PS3/PS4 cross-release titles, like GTA V. They look mostly similar, but a bit higher quality versions of all assets and effects are used.
I think NX will definitely stick to being affordable and flexible. Take it with you wherever you go, plug it into any screen for a console experience, and a library consisting of all of Nintendo's games are waiting. My biggest concern is storage, hopefully they learned their lesson with that.
They should also consider dropping the WiiU's price soon and by a decent margin, XOneS and PS4Slim are currently at the same price range and sporting 500GB minimum storage.
@BertoFlyingFox I agree! Bringing the Wii U price real low before the Holidays is a must.
Buying many used games - Wii U will live a long time.
The key to NX's success isn't about delivering better looking games - truth be told, I'm more than happy with the look of Nintendo's Wii U titles. The key is giving developers what they want, and that's going to be the tools that allow for smooth ports.
Yes, that does include access to PS4/XB1 horsepower, but the carts' could easily be a game changer if it's means quick transitions between modes/levels.
What if it isn't really the controllers which are detachable, but the screen? What if the screen could be your smartphone or your tablet (IosX : NX first) or your TV, using the WiiU as a hub for those who own it and an actual hub for those who don't? What if you could use this controller not only for exclusive content, but also for the majority of existing app/android store games? To me it all starts to make sense now! @rjejr #78 @JaxonH #79 @3MonthBeef #117
@BertoFlyingFox
And all that storage is fast used up even if you go all retail. I'd prefer less space and not having to install games.
By the way, I remember all the ridicule Wii U/Nintendo got about the storage prior to the release of the X4. "It's 2013! lol" And funnily enough it died down quite much after the release of the X4.
When the Wii came out in the US, it was hard to stay on a shelf for almost 2 years...it was extremely popular, but nintendo kept shorting it (which is something they need to also stop doing to this day...amiibos, consoles and games). But, after a few years, it seemed many people stopped playing it. There were many great games for it (by 3rd parties) but they became lost in shovel ware...this was also the case with the playstation 2, which also got the same amount of shovel ware and good games. Every generation has this...one console does better than the others, and that console gets a ton of games...which leads to a bunch of shovel ware games too, so I never really got what the big cause of the Wii was...it was a fun system to play!
The Wii U shouldn't have gotten that name...nintendo should have changed the name and advertised it a little more. I remember when the 3DS came out in the US, the store for it wasn't even up yet...it was almost 4 months later, which isn't good to just buy the system, only have a few games at launch (very few) and not have all features up and running.
I'm looking forward to seeing what the NX does and what games are coming for it, but I honestly don't care if it competes with the other consoles or not...it's nintendo, and there's always a love for their games! Whenever I purchase a game for any system, I don't care about graphics, I look into the replay and fun factor...plus, I love platform titles and party games, and who always gets the most of them...NINTENDO!!!!
@BertoFlyingFox I always thought that too. But, if you can add external hard drives to the system, then that's fine, but they never give enough space on their systems. I buy retail for PS4, and still...after just 30 retail games, I'm out of space on a 500GB HD...which is bull. Sometimes I think this is a companies way of getting you to buy another console, but even if the HD is higher in space, it seems that the developers make their games take up more space.
To what you said about the Wii U taking a price drop...yeah, they definitely need to do so. I understand that they'd be taking a loss on the system, but they need to realize that they'd get that percentage back with sales of the games and the e-shop. The Wii U is too expensive at the current moment and I end up seeing people go out and pick up the original Wii instead...it also doesn't help that stores barely put any Wii U games on the shelves. If they dropped the system down to $200, they could possibly sell some during the holiday season...just advertise the drop with Paper Mario Color Splash and show people that the system is still somewhat alive!
@Laki2 I think you misunderstood me. I said Nintendo was always innovative, but I don't think that outside of the Wii, that innovation drove the sales (not to mention drove them through the roof). Did people run out and buy a NDS over a Gameboy because it had dual-screen, touch and mic? Of course not, and why would they, because it was hardly ever used in an innovative way, that actually added to the experience instead of just showcasing it or replacing one interaction with another equal one.
The Wii though, sold itself on it's innovation, and in no small part thanks to the appeal of Wii Sports. That was the initial push that got the snowball rolling, and rolling and rolling.
I often now read of a narrative, where Nintendo was never part in the arms race for console power, or even a leader in that field (which is wrong up until the Wii btw), but where Nintendo excelled through modest technology paired with great innovation to drive sales.
The truth is, the Nintendo seems made marginal innovations all the time, they were always more powerful than before and until the Wii, they were up there at the top as far as power goes, not lacking behind, the truth is also that each generation sold worse than the one before, until the Wii showed up, breaking the trend for one generation, only to go back to it with the WiiU.
This leads me to say, that Wii cannot be Nintendo's buisness modell, because it was a historical anomaly.
As far as handhelds go, that narrative makes more sense, though it needs to be said, that in the field of handhelds, that was for the most part a distinct lack of competition, which makes comparison hard, plus the other side offered so many blunders and lackluster support for their product, that Nintendo really didn't need cutting edge tech or great innovation to stay ahead. Sony at least, sabotaged themselves pretty thoroughly. Afterall, I doubt we will ever hear the likes of "PSP GO" ever again, out of the mouth of any official Sony representative - hell, we even hardly hear Vita anymore.
@BiasedSonyFan True, the only catch is that currently, the discrete graphics cards which can handle 4K @ 30 FPS with medium settings (not even max for more demanding titles) run for upwards of $300, almost as much by itself as the upcoming consoles. Prices will fall and improvements to the new generation of discrete graphics will rise, as you said.
So it really rules out the integrated processors of the PS4 Pro and Xbox Scorpio from being anywhere near up to the task of competing with PC's in either the native 4K or VR arenas, going into the 9th console generation which the NX will kick off. It's such a stark difference from consoles competing toe to toe technologically with PC upon release back in the 3rd - 7th console generations.
Nintendo will be the only first party potentially offering something that cannot be so easily replicated on PC. It is a wise move to position themselves so they don't need to live up to the currently impossible technical standards (natively, without upscaling) advertised for the PS4 Pro and Xbox Scorpio. It would be unwise for Nintendo to keep saying they aren't competing against them- if anything, the NX should seek to make it's competitors look like they're using an antiquated, inadequate way of dealing with console gaming.
@locky-mavo It's debatable for the 4th console generation. The Neo-Geo was technically the most powerful system, but it mostly only released arcade games, with very few exclusives. And of course, the price point for both the system and games was astronomical for the time period. It pretty much was not competing with the SNES/Super Famicom, Genesis/Mega Drive, or Turbo Duo/PC Engine at all- it was a niche product. So depending on interpretation, the SNES could be said to be the competitive powerhouse of the generation, since it was more technically advanced than Sega's or NEC/Hudson's consoles.
@Rin-go "What some fail to remember is that when you have to take a piece out to show a trend then it isn't a trend."
No, when you take a piece out of a trend you label it an "outlier" and the trend still holds. It has nothing to do w/ failing to remember, it has to do with valid statistical measurement techniques.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlier
@Spoony_Tech Well actually Ninteod home consoles have been on the decline "since" the NES. The decline accelerated w/ the N64.
NES 60 mil
SNES 50 mil
N64 33 mil
Gamecube 22 mil
Wii 100 mil (or as I like to call it, "Wii Sports", that's what sold)
Wii U 13 mil
Looking at about a 30% drop-off each gen I'd put a stand alone NX home console prediction at 8-9 million. Which is why there probably won't be one. Even if there is one it will play 3DS cartridges and NX handheld cartridges so it won't just be an NX home console, it will be the Master Handheld Player or some such.
@JaxonH That wasn't me in your chat group, I always battle until the bitter end, either winning or losing.
I've been reading up a lot on the Apple - Nintedo stuff, there was a lot written after the DeNA deal was announced last year, and it looks like Japan has a law forbidding outside companies to buy Japanese ones, so even if Apple wanted to, it couldn't buy Nintendo. Though $30 Billion could probably buy them game exclusivity in the handheld and set-top-box market, or a lot of timed exclusives, if Apple wanted to go that route. But then again, why should they? Apple gets 30% of every app store sale, why buy the cow when the milk's so cheap? They'll be making money hand over fist and it doesn't cost them a thing. Well maybe a mil or 2 for iOS first, but that isn't even loose couch change for them, more like pocket lint.
But if Apple ever did make an "iGame", well that could be interesting. And Apple TV isn't doing very well. Maybe they'll decide to a game controller to that remote some day? Apple likes it bluetooth. Of course if earbuds are $160 what would a controller cost, $799?
http://venturebeat.com/2016/09/09/apple-tv-continues-to-lose-ground-to-chromecast-one-year-after-its-relaunch/
The Nintendo will have to compete against the PlayStation and xBox, however, the Nintendo has a lot to offer including games and other things the other game consoles don't have.
So overall the Nintendo NX should have it's own market:
http://nintendonx.yolasite.com
@rin-go Nintendo is way better with their game filesizes than the other two so a 500GB system will last way longer.
I feel a good amount of storage out-the-gate helps those who like to buy digital games, don't think Nintendo will ever go the full install route for their physical games so I'm not sure why those have to go hand-in-hand.
I don't know what an X4 is.
@JLPick I love being able to use an external HDD, but it's another thing that has to be bought and there was never an official Nintendo-branded one. Reminds me of the ps2/gc days where if you forgot to get a memory card, you werent saving your game progress any time soon.
In this day and age digital games are a given if you like VC, indies, and general low-brow games...capping those folks at 32GB isnt a smart move when the bottom line of their analytics show more folks buying digital.
@Lucina @starman292 @westman98 Isn't Scorpio only $300? Or is that the slim? It has be cheaper than PS4Pro and XBiggerBoner. Otherwise it won't sell because people will just stick with the other two. Nintendo used to do quality at a good price. It's worth trying again. $300 is not an impulse buy. Somehow $150-200 is for people.
@AcridSkull What kind of multipack are we talking? IF its original, ranch and maybe one of the other flavors, I'd agree. But if it's those weird Doritos flavors, no way.
@Rin-go I completely agree. The fastest way Nintendo could destroy themselves is to enter the arms race as it is now.
@Grumblevolcano to whom does it not mater?
@XCWarrior Scorpio is likely to be (minimum) $500.
@rjejr
The more you know. But that doesn't change the fact that the Wii is seen as an abnormally that doesn't actually count for some arbitrary reasons. Funny how some people go out of their way to show that its success wasn't a success at all. You did it yourself. "It only sold because of Wii Sports." As if selling because of software was some kind of failure.
@BertoFlyingFox
X4 is XBox One and PS4.
@Rin-go You are so right about some people completely disregarding the Wiis success! It was everywhere. In schools, in hospitals, on films. Mind you...it could be 'the exception that proves the rule' or something lol.
NX must have White color for first launching.
I like White color for Nintendo machines because i can decorate it later with my own designs :3
@DESS-M-8 Nintendo has relied on the same model for decades with their handhelds. By your logic, why did Nintendo not hold off the release of the DS until they could ensure all models had an online store?
Or waited until the 3DS had beefier hardware to ensure everyone got stuff like SNES games.
The PS Pro and Scorpio are new in the sense that this is the first time mainstream home consoles have had upgraded hardware with new features that older models won't have.
Understand, I'm not defending Sony or Microsoft on this. But Nintendo is just as guilty.
In fact, I feel a bit more screwed over since I will never get stuff like Xenoblade and SNES games on my 2DS.
Sony and Microsoft have come out time and time again and said that all new games will work on all models of the PS4 and Xbox One.
Will they keep their word? Time will tell, but some leaked documents from Sony regarding the pro made it clear Sony wants no PS Pro exclusive titles that would divide their userbase.
Nintendo needs to showcase themselves as a viable alternative to the Xbox and ps4. They currently have nothing to entice people that aren't already fans and we can see their hardcore fanbase has been dwindling.
Personally the NX needs to be at least decently powerful but current rumors point at is a Wii U on the go which is decent but not very good for 2017 if you want to use it as a home console. Hopefully the connector to the tv has extra computational power or else the NX will be seen as yet another gimmicky system no one wants.
As far as what I want out of the NX, I just want something affordable that plays Nintendo games. I made the jump to PC gaming this year, so all my third party needs are met, and the hardware I have curb-stomps the current PS4 and Xbone, and will outperform their successors by a substantial margin. All I want is an affordable companion device that Nintendo continues to release kick-ass titles for.
As for the general market, Nintendo needs to nail the right balance of price point, uniqueness and power, enough so that people will see it as a good companion device and pick it up. To do that, Nintendo's marketing needs to be on point this time around; they can't rely on Directs and half-hearted commercials. They need to be aggressive, catchy, and properly lay out what makes the system unique and why people should buy it. If Sony has proved anything this generation, it's that marketing is far more important to a console's success than its hardware, it's software or its quality. If Nintendo can manage that, they will build a strong install base, and with a strong install base, they can bring in third parties to get a piece of the pie.
@XCWarrior Scorpio hasn't even been officially unveiled yet.
The PS4 Slim in $300. The PS4 Pro is $400. The Scorpio is more powerful than the PS4 Pro, which means it might be more expensive than $400 when it is released next year.
If the NX is significantly less powerful than the PS4/Xbox One, as the Eurogamer rumors seem to suggest, then it needs to be cheap ($200 or below). That would put the NX with price parity against the New 3DS XL and PS Vita, which will make people view the device as more of a handheld than a console, thus allowing Nintendo to stay in their handheld "comfort zone" and "avoid competing" with PS4/Xbox One.
I'm concerned when I hear things like NX shouldn't compete with Sony and MS. That makes me nervous because it feels like the NX is a lesser powered cheaper console with detachable controllers for the kiddies.
Maybe Nx is an Apple-Nintendo consol but it wont be cheap then
@Mario_Fart
This pretty much sums up Nintendo's main issue with their current home console. Lack of frequent releases.
Looking at the games that have released from their own studios, it's easy to see that from Nintendo's corner; all they have to do to improve hardware adoption is to provide more IP, more often and sales will build. Wii U lacked consistent momentum the whole way. But, it's first party software sales speak for themselves.
Now that they've combined development houses between platforms and considering rumoured versatility with their next system, game droughts theoretically should become far less of an issue.
We all know Nintendo aren't going to compete against Sony and MS. Whether they could or not, they won't.
NX needs to be affordable, but powerful and sophisticated enough that the consumer feels like they're getting value. It needs controllers that don't feel like a cheap novelty (and don't skimp on things like analogue triggers) but also don't add significantly to the unit price. It needs all the modern OS features gamers take for granted like solid online play, a proper cloud-based Account system that allows play on more than one device, decent on board storage. Again, so the consumer doesn't get the impression it's 'cheap'.
Most of all it needs games. No more excuses Nintendo. They've burned their bridges with lot of third-parties so are going to have to properly support this thing on their own. That means a hefty selection of launch games and a clear map of a hefty selection coming soon after. 30 new games a year between first and second party is not unreasonable. No more drop feeding the Virtual Console, use it properly to make NX a one-step Nintendo gaming shop. Go back to your old games and bring them into the HD era. Have your mobile games work on the system. Those Wii U games denied the sales they deserve by the machine flopping? Get them souped-up and ported over.
This is it, Nintendo. No more excuses.
P.S.I agree that the COD crowd has gone but Nintendo still need whatever third-party games they can get. Sports games especially.
I understand that people want an affordable Nintendo console, but goodness gracious some of the prices being thrown around here are ridiculous!
The SNES was the most expensive console at the time if I remember correctly (of course before the NEOGEO )
@Kirk Let's hope if NX is a handheld that can output to TV's that it'll have wireless controllers as well otherwise it'll feel like a gamepad 2.0 and it'll destroy the one thing Nintendo consoles have an advantage over the competition and that is local multiplayer. Sure the others have it, but they don't handle it as well as Nintendo.
I think the Wii U will be the last real home console from Nintendo. Competing with Sony and MS doesn't make sense anymore, and haven't done in a while now. There's just no room for a third console in that market.
The core gamers all left Nintendo, and only us diehard fans are still buying their home console. Even if Nintendo released a console, that would be on par with PS4 and X1, it wouldn't sell much better than the Wii U.
I hear so many in here, that really believes this would be the solution to it all, and that the NX will fly from the shelves, if just Nintendo makes a top power console. I think this is very naive, and more wishful thinking than anything else.
Mario and Zelda is not enough these days, and many core gamers doesn't care anyway. They just care about the next cod, FIFA, Elder scrolls. And because most of the big western publishers have left Nintendo, you will not find many of those games on the NX. No matter how powerful.
Nintendo has always been a family oriented company, with a “kiddy” image. Something that has helped them a lot the last decades, but also have made them less appalling among teenagers and many core gamers, sadly.
The last couple of years, smartphones and tablets have been Nintendo's biggest rivals as the primary gaming platform for children and families. Nintendo's handhelds have still sold well, although with lesser margins than before. But it has been profitable, and shown much better potential than their home consoles.
Therefore I think, that the NX primarily will be a handheld device, with some smart TV-play functions. But this will mostly be to lure in Home console gamers.
The NX will be a full blown attack on the tablet market. A cheaper option than the iPad, with more focus on dedicated gaming, but also offering the usual tablet media consumption options, and all the cheap casual mobile games.
It's is likely that Nintendo will fork Android, clean it from anything 'Google' connected, and use it to build their own platform on NX. The latest hardware rumors about the NX also indicates that it will be an Android driven device.
Stock open-source Android can be molded to whatever you want it to be, and Nintendo will have full control of it. They can develop their own unique skin for it, make their own default apps and apps-store like E-shop, and call it Nintendo-OS. Amazon did something similar with their Kindle devices.
Using Android will make it easy for developers to port their Android games, and release them on the E-shop. And also companies like Netflix and HBO will follow up with apps.
I am also not sure, that the NX will be more powerful than the Wii U. Being a handheld and all. But it could be as powerful.
I would probably hold on to the Wii U for some time though. It could prove to be the better platform to fully enjoy the new Zelda game.
@iflywright
The funny thing is, that Nintendo as been exactly that for a decade. The lesser powerful console for the family and the "kiddies". They have always been the core target for Nintendo, and there is nothing wrong with that. It have served them well.
Not since the Game Cube have Nintendo competed with Sony and MS. And I am fine with that. I enjoy all consoles, and do not want the same experience on them all. It would have been so boring.
NX could exist perfectly fine next to a PS4/X1, being the handheld and offering a totally different experience.
@Rukiafan7 Well the rumours say it will be this:
https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/uq1MjMZO5LyBNR6nToaUiy_vLAs=/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/6844609/jpg.0.jpg
So technically you'll be able to use it like a Wii U GamePad, which is technically a normal controller too, or you can detach the ends and use them like Wiimotes.
There's basically not previous Nintendo console control that wouldn't work pretty much perfectly on such a device.
And, much like any other handheld, you'll be able to play local multiplayer if other people also have an XNS, or if you each you one of the ends like a Wiimote, and potentially you can even use wired controllers with it too anyway.
@123akis Well,ifit comeswith a screen then,yes,NXwillbelesspowerful.
Microsoft and Sony have been taken a loss while selling their systems. But, they usually recoup losses on the third game sold, I think.
NX does not need to be as powerful as PS4 or the Xbox One. I think that great gaming experiences can be achieved on a slightly less powerful system that developers can easily work with (imagine an Android-base OS).
I think that Nintendo should pursue a 200 price point. Why? The PS4 is already selling at 300 with games bundled, and the Xbox can be had for 275 or less.
@GizmoGadgets You raise an interesting point: fresh IPs. For all the genius they can often bring to new Mario or Zelda games, it feels like the well they draw from has become too narrow, no matter how willing they are to experiment with those franchises.
Wii U has been an interesting generation for Nintendo in that Miyamoto seemed to lose touch with Star Fox while the company's new blood hit a home run with Splatoon. I hope that encourages them to take more chances on new IPs. They need to stop preaching to the converted quite so much.
@Captain_Gonru "h"-word
Help, I need somebody
Help, not just anybody
Help, you know I need someone, help
When I was younger (So much younger than) so much younger than today
(I never needed) I never needed anybody's help in any way
(Now) But now these days are gone (These days are gone), I'm not so self assured
(I know I've found) Now I find I've changed my mind and opened up the doors
Help me if you can, I'm feeling down
And I do appreciate you being 'round
Help me get my feet back on the ground
Won't you please, please help me
(Now) And now my life has changed in oh so many ways
(My independence) My independence seems to vanish in the haze
(But) But every now (Every now and then) and then I feel so insecure
(I know that I) I know that I just need you like I've never done before
Help me if you can, I'm feeling down
And I do appreciate you being 'round
Help me get my feet back on the ground
Won't you please, please help me
When I was younger so much younger than today
I never needed anybody's help in any way
(But) But now these days are gone (These days are gone), I'm not so self assured
(I know I've found) Now I find I've changed my mind and opened up the doors
Help me if you can, I'm feeling down
And I do appreciate you being round
Help me, get my feet back on the ground
Won't you please, please help me, help me, help me, ooh
I'm not sure how, but it popped into my head and seemed #justtellus related
The technology now is certainly good enough that it will come down to the games. They don't have to be highest resolution, but they have to exist in the first place. The Xbox One is great. The PS4 is great. The Wii U is great. So are the 3DS and Vita. Why? They all have games that appeal to me. So I'm not really worried whether Nintendo can pull this off, especially consolidating console and handheld development. They just need to sell it right.
I'm just tired of the rumours by now. Time to show it.
@Rin-go ""It only sold because of Wii Sports.""
My thought on Wii has always bene it sold as Wii Sports, which isn't to take away from Wii sports, it was genius and executed well. But Wii or Wii Sports doesn't equal "Nintnedo". I bet if aksed, 80% o the peopel who bought a Wii woudln' tknow it was a NTnedo console. Even if given a mutilple choice test 7 or 8 years ago -
Wii is made by
A. Miscrosoft
B. Nintnedo
C. Sony
D. Google
a lot of peopel still would have picked worng.
Wii Sports was great, it go tpeopel into active video game playing. Ninteod sold 40 million $90 Wii Blaance Boards b/c of Wii Fit and Wii Fit Plus. And even those peopel when asked probably wouldn' tpick Ntneod in that multiple choice test. But if you asked those same peopel "What companuy gave us the MArio video game character" I bet a lot woudl get it rigth.
So I'm not denigrating Wii or Wii Sports, just pointing out that I don't think it was a success b/c Nitneod made it, nor did it's popularity make Ntnedo famous. There is a discontenecct between the Wii, Wii Sports and Wii Fit, and the Ntintendo brand.
And part of my argument is this - Nitneod made Wii, sold 100 million. If all or a majority of those people bought Wii either b/c they were "Nintendo" fans, or became Ntineod fans after buying a Wii, woudln't Wii U have sold more than 13 million?
The 13 million people who bought a Wii U probably are Nintedo fans, down from the NES, SNES, N64 and Gamecube numbers. The other 80 million who bought a Wii, they don't know who Ntineod is. Well maybe they do, Nintneod is the company that made Mario, but they don't relate Wii Sports to Ntineod, if they did, Wii U would have sold much better.
Wii made Miis famous at the expense of Mario. Nintneod shoudl have populated Wi Sports w/ Ninteod characters like SLugers does, made Miis an add in like Mario Kartd id. Miis became very popular but they coudln't sell the Wii U.
I think the sweet spot is power that matches the first gen Xbox one and/or PS4 (to get third party support)and an appealing Nintendo gimmick (to get the casuals on board). And I have a hunch that gimmick is going to be gaming on the go and being able to connect any blue tooth enabled device to your system to play Android/iOS games on your TV. But seriously Nintendo, show us the damn thing!
If all of the rumors about the NX are actually true, then Nintendo is poised to completely change the face of console gaming as we know it.
Let's face it: as time passes, and with each new generation with their successive upgrades, the line that divides console and PC gaming becomes more and more blurry. The question that Microsoft and Sony both need to ask themselves, is whether they want to keep pushing things to the point where one of their own product lines is in danger of cannibalizing the sales of one of their other product lines. Personally, I think we're one more console generation away from this becoming a serious question.
By the time the PS5 and next XBox_____ come out, unless these companies build systems that are a radical departure from a "traditional" console design, Nintendo will be sitting in the catbird seat as the only "Un-PC" choice in gaming.
I thought the Android rumour was long debunked. Have new rumours surfaced? Since Nintendo is releasing 'Super Mario Run' on iOS first because it is more "stable platform" I don't think NX OS will be based on Android. Would seem odd to support the competitor to Android first if you are then going to base your next major console/platform on the less stable OS. Now stock android with some dedicated tweaks might solve the stability issues. Or the incentives Apple gave were worth going exclusive on release.
I don't agree with the writer...
what u r talking about has already been done in Wii U, affordable price, unique gaming direction, avoid competition in hardware/tech.
For what I have seen so far, I think NX is not going to be a cheaper console than ps4 or xbox one. It is not what nintendo fans are looking for. They are (probably) using Nvidia graphic card and hinted that NX is going to be stronger than ps4.
nintendo might have seen itself losing too many titles for WiiU's weak performance. They don't want to lose them again in NX. So they are absolutely not sacrificing graphics for cost.
what is the edge of NX i think will be a combination of 3DS and Wii. Innovative way of gaming, playing console game on mobile controller anytime anywhere, and mobile games are also available on the machine.
Nintendo's comflict with ps4 and xbox one is inevitable. They tried to avoid that in WiiU and it is how they lost many titles. Nintendo is not going to lose the titles again. See their conversation with leading manufacturers. NX is going to be a super playing station i think, but expect to pay more. And I am definitely looking forward to that direction.
@upsidedownjim
You can't really compare it like that. Nintendo properly made a good deal with Apple, for the timely exclusive rights on Super Mario Run.
But eventually it will come to Android to. This is just a smart business move from Nintendo, because the iOS platform promises a better revenue.
And if NX will be based on Android, it will not have much in common with Google's Android. Stock Android will just be used as an underlying layer for the NX OS, and Nintendo will only use it for its features and compatibility. It's just a Android based OS, and nothing to do with supporting the Google Android platform.
So Nintendo could do the same in the future. Releasing their mobile games on NX E-shop, then iOS, and later Google Play Store, if this is what makes the most financial sense.
If Nintendo wants to compete in the tablet market, they can't use nothing else but Android. Developing a capable OS for multi touch devices is no easy task, and Nintendo doesn't have the resources for that. So using Android under the hood will bring them a huge step forward. iOS is a fully closed system, that only Apple can use, so Android is the only possible option.
And Nintendo can make the NX as stable as they want, only allowing software from the E-shop. Making it as closed as iOS, if that's what they want. Using Android is not preventing that.
It will also be easier to tailor and optimize Android, because the NX is based on only one specific hardware setup. Nintendo is not going to have to support thousand different mobile devices.
Nintendo is usualy unique (that's turns out good or bad). But not always affordable.
I firmly disagree with the notion that Nintendo should not "compete" with Sony and Microsoft. Of course they blummin should! How can they not? Nitendo, unlike the others, are in a unique position where they could really dominate the market. Allow me to explain: Nintendo have, arguably, the best first and second party line up of games in the business. Mario 2D, Mario 3D, Mario Kart, Zelda, Metroid, F Zero, Star Fox, Pikmin, Professor Layton, Kirby, Smash bros, I could go o. The fact is that every generation has at the very least 2 or 3 games that are the best of their genre. Now imagine a super powerful console where you get not just Mario Galaxy 3, Zelda Breath of the Wild and a new F Zero at launch, but you also have Final Fantasy XV, COD, Battlefield 1, and all the latest third party software. Just think about that. Sony and Microsoft wouldnt stand a chance!
But of course that will never happen because you have a delusional Nintendo that thinks they can repeat the freak succes of the wii and even more delusional fan base that damage control saying things like "oh well I only want nintendo games on a nintendo console".
No one truly knows what the NX is going to be. But I GUARANTEE if the system is underpowered in the eyes of Joe public, it will be yet another 10 million selling console and Nintendo will quicky start going the way Sega did.
@XCWarrior Chilli Heatwave
Latest word is Nintendo will reveal the Direct announcement date today for sometime in the next two days (probably 14th).
If the NX is the home/portable hybrid tablet console that it's rumoured to be, then there is no way it'll be competing with the other consoles... it's portability will keep it completely separate.
If anything, they'll need to be careful with it's portability to ensure that it doesn't start to compete with the 3DS.
@Captain_Gonru You need a bigger screen, problem solved.
Nintendo Land based on their IP was a better choice than Mii Land, but in retrospect maybe Mii Land would have sold better? Oh wait, no it wouldn't have, it's a crazy mess based on crazy words nobody understands.
I'm OK with them keeping the Mii on NX, but I hope Nintendo realizes they should be relegated to letting us join in on the IP party, not the focus. All those Mii in Wara Wara Plaza and in Nintendo Land need to be mingling with Mario, Link and Samus. I'll never understand how they made amiibo and didn't include them in either of those places.
Let Mario lead and the Mii follow, bring in both Nintendo fans and Mii fans.
Nintendo will also automatically compete, whether it'll be a console or a hybrid (which it isn't going to be, by the way) because it will be the offering that they put on the market, so if that is the only device that you would be able to play the next Nintendo games on, then it's automatically in competition with the other two offerings.
And most of the public and the media will also see it that way.
@dres Since all your comments are largely built around the assumption that Nintendo is going to use an Android fork as a base, most of what you have said "er ikke rigtig". (and yes, I can speak Danish)
Here's some articles that clearly show this to be true:
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/nintendo-nx-will-not-run-on-android/1100-6427749/
http://www.geek.com/games/nintendo-nx-will-not-run-android-1624345/
@rjejr New vid:
"Nintendo NX Hybrid - A Dead Theory"
And what's with all the Apple love lately? Must be a NYC thing...
@ThanosReXXX6
The thing is, I do not believe Nintendos retraction on the matter. They just had to go out and deny all the rumours about an Android based console at that time, even if the rumour was true. If they didn't respond to the Android rumours, it would have gotten out of hand too early, before Nintendo could show the device to the public, and really explain what the NX is.
It will be Android based, but with Nintendo’s own OS customizations on top. It will be very different to any Android based system out now, and that is hard to explain to people, if they just have the “Android console” term in their head.
The NX will be a handheld device, because the Home Console business doesn't make sense to Nintendo anymore. It will offer TV play and connections though, to keep their home console user's somewhat happy.
I expect to see a 7-8 inch tablet device, with connectable controllers. And a device more dedicated to gaming than normal iPads / Android tablets. But to pull that off, Nintendo needs a capable OS to compete. And I simply can't imagine that they can make one from the ground by themselves. They just lack experience in that area. A forked version of Android as foundation, is the only thing that would make sense.
@dres Well, you're of course free to believe what you will, but either way, I would invite you to watch that video I posted in comment #190 in order for you to understand that both only a handheld/hybrid and going with Android is the thing that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
There would be literally NOTHING there to make developers enthusiastic or excited, and it would definitely not mean a move away from Wii U like devices, as stated by mr. Kimishima. It would be more like Wii U 2.0, aka "what the Wii actually should have been in the first place" and going back to that or staying there, which would be decidedly last gen, that is simply something that is not going to happen based upon all the factual information that is readily available for all to see.
Also, in an interview with Japanese magazine Nintendo Dream (also known as NinDori), Shinya Takahashi from Nintendo EPD said: "During the development of NX, we listened to many opinions from developers about what it is that they would want to see (in NX hardware). It's focused on being developer friendly."
Which again brings me back to what on Earth would be new, exciting or great about an Android-based hybrid with breakaway controllers? Exactly: NOTHING.
The original article is obviously in Japanese and hasn't been officially translated but this is what it said in the specific part that mentions NX in relation to third party developers.
@dres P.S. Why not hit that reply button instead of mistyping my name?
@ThanosReXXX He said 100%, so I stopped listening after that. So 5 points, I guess each point is 20%, good thing he didn't only have 4 points, b/c then he could only debunk it 80%.
Iwata passed away, nothing he says matters. And nothing he said mattered when he was alive anyway, otherwise there wouldn't be any DeNA deal and no such thing as SMR. Iwata also said that if Wii didn't outsell GameCube then they should get out of the business. Wii U did not outsell Gamecube, therefore according to Iwatas own words Nintendo should get out of the home console business.
The problem with playing the "he said" game with Nintendo employees is that they say everything, and everything they say can be translated several different ways, and a lot of time they go back on their words. We were supposed to be playing Zelda Wild in 2015, 2016 and now 2017. Why should we believe anything anybody in that company says? Iwata said a couple of times after Wii U got off to slow sales he wasn't going to lower the price, and then he did, a week after I bought one on his word there would be no price drop. His words meant nothing to me after that.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/185793/Theres_no_Wii_U_price_drop_on_the_way_anytime_soon_says_Nintendo.php
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/06/waiting_for_wii_u_to_drop_in_price_not_going_to_happen_says_nintendo
Here's the final word on anything anybody ever says, they can always come back and say "It was true at the time." Which is what everybody always says after they change their mind.
Nothing is very obvious, it's all just speculation and theories, and I hate when people confuse fact and opinion.
Somebody should make a more realistic video listing all of the things coming from Nintendo explaining why it may or may not be a hybrid, b/c there are reasons to expect either, but nobody ever becomes a popular youtuber by presenting the middle ground, you have to choose a side.
I like his points, but this is Nintendo, and I'm still waiting on my dual Game pad Wii U games.
https://www.engadget.com/2012/06/05/nintendo-two-wii-u-gamepads-will-work-on-one-system/
http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Wii-U-Support-Two-GamePads-Starting-Next-Year-47024.html
@ThanosReXXX
Moving away from Home Console, is like moving away from Wii U like devices. Being a gaming tablet and manly handheld device, with TV play capabilities, is something different. And mobile developers would be very enthusiastic about such a device.
"Shinya Takahashi from Nintendo EPD said: 'During the development of NX, we listened to many opinions from developers about what it is that they would want to see (in NX hardware). It's focused on being developer friendly.'"
Developer friendly has nothing to do with “new and exciting”. Nintendo could still make a great developer toolkit, where it would be easy to port existing Android games, and enhance them to use the full potential of the NX hardware. That would be exciting stuff for any mobile developer. And maybe Shinya Takahashi was talking about mobile developers? We don't know?
@rjejr Normally, if someone told me that he stopped listening to a video I sent them within the first few seconds, I would just post a smiley shaking it's head or ignore the sarcasm, but because it's you, I'll make the effort to post a serious reply.
"Iwata passed away, nothing he says matters"
Wrong. Nintendo has specifically and EXPLICITLY stated that plans as laid out by mr. Iwata himself would continue and be completed AS IS. No reason whatsoever to believe otherwise, unless people want to beat a dead horse called "but plans change".
And yes, my reasoning for this is the "how Asians work and think" card. I already told you before that to completely disregard his plans or wishes for Nintendo going forward would be WAY beyond unthinkable in their society and company which is still very much rooted in ancient Japanese tradition.
It is disgraceful, dishonorable and also a HUGE insult to his remaining relatives.
And his comment on not outselling GameCube was specifically aimed at the Wii, NOT the Wii U, so you can't just copy/paste that onto another generation of consoles. And he didn't say they should get out of the business, his exact words were "I do not intend to declare how many Wii we will be selling today, but Wii will be a failure if it cannot sell far more than GameCube did. In fact, we shouldn't continue this business if our only target is to outsell GameCube. Naturally, we are making efforts so that Wii will show a far greater result than GameCube."
That's quite a bit more nuanced than leaving the business if they can't outsell the GameCube, because that is clearly not what he meant.
" ...when people confuse fact and opinion."
Well, financial reports are fact, so quoting from them has VERY little to do with opinion. He's not making any weird, off-center statements, he is just citing existing sources word for word and there are no if's and's or but's about it.
And talking about realistic: if we compare SMD to all our other regular YouTube friends, I think it's safe to say that we can conclude that he is by FAR the most realistic of them all, and he also always delivers his message in a calm, down to earth demeanor.
"and I'm still waiting on my dual Game pad Wii U games."
Keep waiting, we know that's not going to happen. Well, at least not on Wii U...
@dres Kimishima's exact words on the matter:
" "I can assure you we're not building the next version of Wii or Wii U," Kimishima explained in an interview with Time. "It's something unique and different[/.strong]. It's something where [strong]we have to move away from those platforms in order to make it something that will appeal to our consumer base.""
That simply cannot be misconstrued as something meaning that it actually IS going to be something like another Wii U.
Besides the whole Android thing, I can see that you put a lot of stock into the EuroGamer rumor, but that is far from confirmed. There are no known sources divulging such information, other than they themselves and their own, undisclosed "reliable" sources.
Probably the same sources that once told them that the 3DS was going to use a Tegra 2 chip and was going to be almost as powerful as a PS3, so they really don't have a flawless record at ALL as far as that is concerned. Later on, they backpedaled, citing several sources claiming the exact opposite without ever admitting to their mistake.
Until Nintendo themselves decide to speak, all is to be taken with a pinch of salt, and that definitely goes for the hybrid rumor.
But taking what Nintendo themselves have said, on more than one occasion, and putting that together with the things that keep coming back, like cartridges, unified architecture and so forth, makes it much more likely that we are talking about two separate devices here, sharing a uniform platform software-wise, and there are several ways they can go about that which aren't at all difficult or impossible, and are even cross-platform compatible, so the home console and handheld don't have to be of the same architecture at all.
And just ask yourself: why wouldn't you want to have two devices that can play the same games, by exchanging cartridges between the two? That would mean that Nintendo (and third party developers as well) can make almost double the profit because the game can be played on both. Especially seeing as the handheld audience is still around 55 million strong, so if all of these people buy the handheld NX, then they will sell quite a few games...
And an ARM console immediately makes me think of the Ouya, and literally NO ONE is waiting on a Nintendo version of that crappy and utterly failed device.
And I'm pretty certain that the head of Nintendo Entertainment Planning & Development wasn't just talking to mobile developers, since his task encompasses monitoring and directing ALL software development.
Obviously, when you're making hardware and you want to discuss that with developers you should also talk to different groups, so I'd sooner say it was BOTH Indie and triple A developers that they have talked to, since the hardware should cater to all of them.
The last few weeks, I've done some research of my own (I'm in IT related sales & marketing and as such, have more than enough contacts in the industry), mostly because I was tired of waiting and the endless rumors going all over the place, and through my own business contacts, I was eventually able to get in touch with a triple A developer, and he told me some stuff that is the complete opposite of the EuroGamer rumor.
And of course, having a discussion by email only, he could be seriously pulling my leg, but he did give me his credentials and besides all that, I've always believed that this specific hybrid rumor just had WAY too many holes in it to be a Nintendo device, or something that Nintendo would even consider doing in the first place, especially in light of how things went with the Wii U...
But, as I always say when NX stuff is concerned: I guess we'll find out soon enough. An announcement is expected either before this month is done or in the beginning of October, so it won't be long now until we finally know what we are going to get if we decide to buy "the" NX...
@BertoFlyingFox Nintendo did release a hard drive for the Wii U...but I only found it at Gamestop while asking for it...they had it behind the counters...but it was a 320GB External Harddrive that fits into the back of the Wii U...sealed by nintendo...it was $80 at that time, so I have no idea if they still make it or not, though.
@ThanosReXXX
Mr. Iwata passed about 20 months before the release of the NX. I'm guessing he had some of the conceptial ideas of the NX, but that very few design decisions were made at that time. It's not that I think Nintendo will try to go against his ideas, I just don't think his ideas were fleshed out or hardware was decided at that point.
For instance, the Wii concept. If someone said I want the customer to be the controller and the controller to track their movement, how many people would create the Wii? I don't think it would have ended up the same without Mr. Iwata being there and making those design decisions over the last two years of development.
I'm not sure what the comment surrounding what was said in the financial statements. However managers comments are not audited and what is said there does not commit the company to anything. It's generally a good idea not to lie to investors but they could certainly be wrong in their interpretations of things.
@ThanosReXXX We'll get to early October and people will change their minds thinking Nintendo will announce the NX in February
@ThanosReXXX "Wrong. Nintendo has specifically and EXPLICITLY stated that plans as laid out by Mr. Iwata himself would continue and be completed AS IS. No reason whatsoever to believe otherwise, unless people want to beat a dead horse called "but plans change"."
Well I did watch the rest of the video, well listened to it anyway, I see no reason to watch any of SMD vids b/c it's just games and he talks over them, so Ido other stuff while I listen, Ashely I watch, but appartnelry you didn't read the rest of my comment b/c I EXPLICITY stated how nothing Ntineod says matters and I gave 2 examples w/ links that they are a bunch of liars. If you want to be delusional and think what some dead guy said matters by all means go ahead, but that doens't make it true.
And just b/c the horse it dead doens't make it any less true - but plans change - is what you will hear more often than not from Ntnieod. Heck, the company is famous for "Please Understand". Do you think they are famous for "Please Understand " b/c they always speak the truth, or b/c they always go back on their word? Please understand.
"In fact, we shouldn't continue this business if our only target is to outsell GameCube. "
That is a complete sentence from Iwata w/o editing. He doesn't say "Wii" in that sentence, he says if their only target is to outsell Gmaecube then they shouldn't continue the business. So if SMD wants to quote Iwata, I can quote him too, and that is a quote, its a full sentence.
"Keep waiting, we know that's not going to happen."
WTF man!! You just told me that Ntinedo is a Japanese company who always keeps it's word. Well it's word was there was going to be games w/ dual Gamepad support coming out for Wii U. That wasn't rumours or leaks, it was official Nintendo employees making those statments. You just singlehandhedly and compeltley destroyed your enitre argument w/ that 1 sentence, Ntinedo lies. No ifs and or butts. It's what they do, lie. and you just said so yourself.
I don't think we're ever going to see eye to eye on this one, we should probably stop.
I do think SMD is one of the better ones, but he's just too sure of himself. If he sees something and wants to claim its true, thats fine, but you cant say "somebody this and this therefore it's true". That's not the way life works. I mean all to those EG people said they say things, so they must be 100% true too, right?
Nothing is 100% true until it is. Nothing.
@Grumblevolcano Well, I sure hope not. Even my patience is wearing thin...
@cleveland124 No, he had already fleshed out the entire groundwork for the idea, and he was working up until the very day he died, as was even documented here in an article not too long ago.
The NX is very much Iwata's baby, and not some vague concept that has only first become a reality after his death. If any at all, only minor changes will have been made, as per mr. Kimishima's own words.
But besides all that: the thing is, most of you are looking at this from a decidedly (too) Western perspective, and Nintendo doesn't work like that. This is also why we think they make strange decisions sometimes, while to them, it isn't strange at all.
Their entire thinking process, work ethos, sense of responsibility and way they view society as a whole is SO inherently different from ours, that a lot of notions or assumptions we make don't apply. (and just in case: no, Sony is not the same, they are almost entirely Westernized while Nintendo is still VERY much a traditionally Japanese company)
And I know: I've worked with Asian people. They are VERY dedicated and very honorable, especially towards their superiors.
And these superiors are very much the same: up until the late 70's - early 80's people in management that failed still committed ritual suicide, because to them it was the only honorable thing to do to save their family/relatives from the eternal shame.
If the team of developers and the current management team said they will execute mr. Iwata's plan to the letter, in honor of the man and all he stood for, then you can count on it that this is EXACTLY what is going to happen. I see that me pre-empting that very point by saying "Nintendo has specifically and EXPLICITLY stated that plans as laid out by mr. Iwata himself would continue and be completed AS IS. No reason whatsoever to believe otherwise, unless people want to beat a dead horse called "but plans change"." hasn't really worked...
And here are all those links and reports from which the quotes originate:
https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/130131/06.html
https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/140130qa/04.html
https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/140130/03.html
http://nintendoeverything.com/kimishima-no-changes-to-the-basic-strategy-set-up-by-iwata/
http://time.com/4131306/nintendo-kimishima-interview/
@Captain_Gonru The best thing about Mii plaza is the Quick Start menu. What a mess. A big bright white mess. It's like they took the hub world out of Nintendo Land and then took all of the life out of that. I can't believe they never even gave us the option to change the color.
Miis will stay, they are already on the My Nintendo page so I don't think they'll go anywhere, but they need to use them judiciously.
And they need to focus on Paper Mario more, SMR less.
https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/775364069779869696
I'm just so disgusted w/ everything.
@ThanosReXXX
I'm sorry, I don't believe the NX has been done for two years sitting on a shelf. From your article above "No changes to basic strategy." That doesn't mean that everything would be done exactly as Mr. Iwata would have done it. It's not plans change, it's that they didn't have all the details and they won't because he's not here now. Not really sure what I'm supposed to be looking for from a bunch of Q&As.
I really believe that if you sat with Mr. Iwata 2 years before the Wii and he told you all of his plans and it was up to you to execute it wouldn't have looked at all the same as it turned out. Lots of decisions are finalized in the last two years. Lots of software decisions, hardware, looks, branding. None of this is final two years in advance.
I really think if he wouldn't have been around the last 2 years of the Wii, it looks completely different. Not intentionally different, but possibly very different anyway. Mr. Iwata loved games and wanted to reach all players. Of course Nintendo is not openly going to move from that. But I can't pretend like the NX wouldn't be different without him.
@rjejr With all due respect, but why so angry, man? It's just video games, not something to get so worked up about and I certainly haven't intended saying anything to make that happen. I'm just telling it like it is, and the info comes from official documents.
And the GameCube statement does NOT mean what you say it means, that is exactly what I was trying to tell you.
It does not translate to: "If the Wii fails to sell less than the GameCube, we need to get out of this business"
What it ACTUALLY says is that there are more important things for them to focus on than outselling the GameCube. He is saying their focus should be in forward thinking, NOT in comparing to the past.
I can't help that we don't see eye to eye on it, but it also isn't an issue, since we don't have to agree on everything, regardless of what is true or not. But I'll respect your wish and will direct these kinds of remarks towards other people from now on. No harm was ever intended.
One more thing I do have to say, though: the EuroGamer comment isn't a very strong example, since they don't have any factual information to back it up, and Nintendo has, in the shape of these quarterly reports. Reports that especially the bigger and more important share holders must largely be able to depend upon, so there is only going to be so much vague or ambiguous information in there, if any at all.
Oh, and the "keep waiting" thing was a joke, so that was the least offending of all the things I said...
Phew... I need a breather. Hang tight, my friend. I hope Nintendo is able to paste a smile on your face again pretty soon. Regardless of the ever re-occurring Mii's, who aren't really my favorite thing either, so that's a nice way to end this comment with something that we actually DO agree on...
@cleveland124 Well, Iwata has only been gone for 14 months now, not 20, let alone that the NX has been sitting on a shelf for two years. Like I told you: Iwata worked up until the very last day of his life, from his hospital bed. Initial designs will have already been made, as will the basic groundwork.
There are rumors now that the NX was delayed due to an additional power boost, but even if that's true: making a console beefier is more than likely just about CPU, GPU and memory, and will have little to no effect on the actual design and/or gimmick of the console itself.
And also remember: mr. Kimishima is only an interim president, yet another reason to expect him not to make too many changes.
But as I already said in my first reaction to you: you are certainly free to believe what you want , but I'm pretty confident in the outcome. Couple more weeks and we'll know for certain.
@ThanosReXXX
I guess I just don't think their are small details. I mean in your example above, what if they decided Wii would have PS3 like power. What if it launched in HD at $400? Would that have been the same?
More importantly is software. WiiSports was a huge reason the Wii sold and was likely being developed tweaked very close to launch. What if that wasn't a pack in and missed launch?
@cleveland124 That's a lot of what if's, fellow NLife member...
What I said stands, though. Making a console more powerful would indeed change the economics and situation around it, but not the device itself, like I already stated.
And with the example I think you mean the 3DS being almost as powerful as the PS3? Or are you talking about comment 207, because those aren't examples...
And I don't really get where you are going with that. If the Wii was similar in power to its generational competitors, then that would of course have created a different situation, and maybe the Wii U would now have been just as powerful as a PS4 or Xbox One, but these things didn't happen, so for me personally, these musings aren't worth considering.
I'm only looking at the situation that Nintendo is in now, because that is the only one that counts and has effect on what NX will be in the end.
FYI: just in case you never read me saying that to anyone, I'm in IT related Sales & Marketing, so most of my knowledge and perspective comes from that. Might clarify some of my statements... (or not)
@ThanosReXXX
It was only 2 what ifs. It was more rhetorical than anything though. I was just saying small changes can make big differences. The playstation move was very similar and would have been one way soomeone could have seen Iwata's vision but it's quite a bit different from what happened.
The most important part of a console is software. And Nintendo said the NX was delayed because of software. According to you I have to believe them.
@cleveland124 Just kidding about the what if's... (hence the smiley)
"According to you I have to believe them."
No, that's not exactly what I meant. Singular statements made in media or on events by ANY company can certainly be ambiguous at times (like in Nintendo's case most of Reggie's statements, because those are 90% sales blurb. I should know... )
But the information in the quarterly reports is factual, and can hardly be read in more than one way, unless you bend over backwards or take things out of context.
I don't believe separate statements outside of official documents any more than you do, much like a lot of statements that they made over some recent software titles, those are either full of excuses, or made with the pointing finger, like a father would do to his child. (as in a case of "people don't understand", instead of "please understand")
And Nintendo said the delay was because of the software, and the rumors say it was to make the console more powerful. No idea which one is true, but fact is that there were already several titles originally intended for Wii U now pushed forward to NX, so it kind of depends on with how many titles that happened, because at one point Miyamoto also said that they had around 30 projects in the works for NX, which should be all either be ready at launch or in the launch window (first 3 to 4 months).
Over 30 titles, former Wii U titles included, doesn't sound to me like a shortage of software, so I personally don't think that this is the real reason for the delay, but I guess we'll never know the exact truth of that one, or maybe only years down the line.
And the Playstation Move (and Microsoft's Kinect) was just Sony's way of riding the wave that Nintendo created, except even though they supposedly had superior tech, they crashed and burned, and the Wii kept it's motion sensing success up for quite a bit longer.
I also don't agree that Sony's idea is one way of how Iwata (and thus Nintendo's) idea could have turned out, or at least not at Nintendo, since his vision was always leading, which is why I also think that they are going to execute his last project to the letter, to honor him and also to make NX the best it can be.
(remember the whole ""for Iwata" thing?)
Nintendo is all about simple and affordable, and Move was neither, and looked stupid to boot, standing there with some glowing popsicle in your hand...
@cleveland124 Oh, by the way: totally agreed on it being all about the software. Getting a decent amount of good games is what counts at the end of the day, regardless of what the guts of the console are made of or what form factor it has, so here's hoping that they at least have that one down. And not just for Iwata...
@ThanosReXXX Finally got to the last email - still no stove - and HFN blog. That blog is great, it said Nintneod is making a mobile tablet device.
"Nintendo might offer ‘basic’ detachable controllers for the Mobile Games & the basic games that can be streamed to Mobile."
OK, no, it didn't say that, but it didn't say they weren't either.
HNF used the word "Speculate". He gained a lot of respect from me right there.
And all that CEDEC stuff, while a bit above my paygrade, sure seemed promising.
HNF has been a very busy tweeter today. Do you bother w/ that nonsense or are you all about the vids?
https://twitter.com/happy_nintendo
He's been talking a lot about delays, which I've been saying for about a week now. I can't remember why I was, some combination of things like announcing a ND for November 2nd for an AC update but not for NX. Oh, and FE and AC apps getting delayed due to SMR. And it just makes more sense to me to announce in Feb, games at E3, launch in August while promoting at Gamescon. Announcing in Sept/Oct to launch in March is stupid planning. Well I've always thought that, but the other items really got me on board w/ the idea of a delay. Maybe I'll be half right?
Oh, and I lost my mind in the other post b/c I'm sick of being lied to by Ntinedo, maybe just mad at myself for keep believing them, but I'm more sick of people defending the lieing. Now I have a $349 Wii U w/ no game support and a mystery NX thats' way overdue to be announced. It's like I'm waiting for my wife to give birth and she's 13 months pregnant.
Sorry you had to take the brunt of it.
@rjejr No worries, I can shoulder that, otherwise I wouldn't be able to make the a*hole joke afterwards...
(I do hope that the kids or the missus are out of the room when you get like that. And don't take it out on the new stove either... )
I know you're sick and tired of Nintendo going to and fro and getting no news, I'm kind of done with it as well, except I just don't let it get me that angry because I don't think a simple hobby is important enough to allow me to get me into such a state, but maybe that's just my Californian roots...
And yes, I take a look at HNF's Twitter page every now and then, but even though I'm in the IT world, I can't stand social media, so I prefer not to keep myself too busy with it, and besides the writer's own posts, there's also a lot of nonsense posted there by others.
And I sometimes already have a lot of trouble not reading YouTube comment sections after having watched a video, so that's already bad enough...
And yes, he mentions a mobile device, and I can agree to that because that is actually something that I never denied in the first place. The big difference is that HNF says that it is a standard mobile device or tablet, and the rumor kept steering towards a dedicated tablet made by Nintendo, and THAT is what I didn't agree with. Sorry for perhaps not making that clear enough in any of my earlier comments, but that is what I think.
Nintendo will NEVER make their own tablet, but through the cooperation with DeNA and the incorporation of Xilinx in the other NX devices, smart devices could easily communicate and interact with dedicated Nintendo devices, and to make that even more inclusive, I can actually see them making some kind of controllers specifically designed towards that medium. EG rumor solved: Nintendo was just testing their custom made controllers for smart devices, and that's what has been seen in combination with a dev kit.
@ThanosReXXX Oh, as far as Gamestop goes, I'm not expecting a reveal, I'm expecting Nintendo to tell them not to expect any hardware until August. Well not exactly that, but something about delivery dates. If there are too expected delivery dates, March and August, then we can at least move on from that discussion as you win. No wait, we can't, could be 2 bundles of the hybrid, or the dock could be sold separatly for TV out of the handheld. Or NES mini has been delayed until March , NX until August. So close.
Anyway, I still think the Gamestop meeting could leak something that's relevant. Not factual, but at least a bit of info that could be construed as relevant by the Youtubers, they have to keep their subscribers happy after all. Maybe a name, or Logo? Or actual date date, like March 24th.
I don't think people give Gamestop HQ enough credit for knowing things. I'm sure they wine and dine and wine some more, ply them w/ liquer to get something out of them.
Oh, and since you avoid Sony news, you probably don't know this, but Gamestop outed the FFXV delay. It was due out Sept 30th but on a Friday some Gamestop HQ guy told some other people it was delayed until November. Squenix even sent little stickers to Gamestp stores to go over the dates, on the displays w/ instructions on how to place them.
Ha ha, made you look.
Anyway, Gamestop head honchos know things, and something could be inadvertently said. I'll be keeping an eye out for a few days at least.
Oh, Gamestop also outed the New 3DS launch date ahead of Ntnedo. Yes, we already knew abut the system, but Gmaestop gave us the date. Since it's not Sony related.
https://www.gamnesia.com/news/new-nintendo-3ds-gamestop-trade-in-deals-revealed-for-north-america
https://www.gamnesia.com/news/gamestop-new-nintendo-3ds-launches-in-north-america-on-february-13
You know, this really is all getting a it ridiculous isn't it? I mean like way past ridiculous, lapped it, and passed it again. We got a date, we got games, but we got no hardware.
@ThanosReXXX "EG rumor solved: Nintendo was just testing their custom made controllers for smart devices, and that's what has been seen in combination with a dev kit."
Ooh I like that. (stove delivered w/o incident, I'm in a better mood now) Can Nintendo make it only work w/ iPads and iPhones and call it "iGame", b/c I'm really enjoying my Apple jokes.
Jokes aside, I'm pretty sure your'e joking b/c Nintnedo isn't Nyko or Pelican or Logitech, I can't see them making controller peripherals for tablets. Unless it's their tablet, which puts us at a chicken and egg standstill.
Even if they do make a tablet, I'm not sure even I'll believe it, as it will have something off about it. I'm not sure what. If you could take the top half off of a 3DS and that had a touchscreen and you could play games on it would that be a tablet, or just a handheld "component" w/ touch controls?
I'd still take a Ntnedo branded tablet though coupled w/ a controller base. Here's some more.
{img]http://image.dhgate.com/albu_404355599_00/1.0x0.jpg[/img]
[img]http://brutalgamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/3_-MOGA-and-MOGA-Pro-by-PowerA_Group_device.jpg" alt="Untitled" />
I like the Moga shaped like a real controller, but I'm guessing Nintendo would go w/ the rectangle.
Nintendo could make a controller that played NX carts w/o a screen that required a phone or tablet, but that doens't make any sense. No, either they make their own tablet and controller, or no controller or tablet at all. In which case bundle them together. In which case we have handheld that separates the screen from the controller like a tablet and keyboard.
So, why do you hate the idea of tablet so much? Wanting a Home console I get, not wanting an underpowered handheld for TV out I get, but what difference does it make if they replace 2DS w/ a kids NX or a kids tablet that plays mobile games w/ Miiverse and My Nintendo built in? Kids like touchscreens, you don't have to use one.
@rjejr It is indeed getting ridiculous. Although: "getting"... I think we're already WAY past that point. That or maybe we are too old and grumpy, who knows?
As for GameStop: I know about the recent leaks, since I do follow general gaming sites, so some Playstation news is bound to pop up from time to time...
And of course outlets like GameStop know about these kinds of things well before the public or even the media ever knows, but how many time can you "accidentally" leak something before you end up at the bottom of the supply chain list? (or be scraped off the list altogether?) Either that or a management change is in order...
"b/c I'm really enjoying my Apple jokes."
Or you just really like apples because you're from NYC...
By the way: you f-ed up the picture link in comment #217...
I copy/pasted it though, so I've already seen the abomination now...
And I wasn't kidding about the separate Nintendo controllers for smart devices. I do think a Nintendo-branded tablet is out of the question, but not some dedicated controllers. There are even relatively simple ways to pair Wiimotes and classic controllers to a tablet, so why not? And HNF also seems to think that this is going to happen. Maybe it was an idea suggested by DeNA in one of their meetings with Nintendo, or maybe it was even an idea from Iwata or Shinya Takahashi from Nintendo EPD, because they finally understood what needed to be done, who knows?
And why I hate tablets, although hate is a strong word, is because I don't see them as adequate, dedicated game devices, and what I actually DO hate about nearly all smart devices is how they spoil kids, like we discussed some time ago, with them having their face stuck to it for the larger part of the day.
A dedicated gaming device never had that kind of effect, so it "knows" its time or place, and so do the people that buy them.
And I hate touch screens, and auto-correct and all these wonderful inventions. Sometimes I think I should have been born in another era, because I also hate social media, or as I like to call them "anti-social media" or simply a part of the open sewer system that is the internet...
Oh, and besides my full-fledged console, I also want my completely dedicated handheld that is not a tabletty thing...
For once, I would like to see Nintendo come out all guns blazing and give us a handheld that completely buries the PS Vita in terms of power, which is quite easily possible, and I wouldn't even mind if it had an Nvidia SoC in it, since that too will be more powerful than a Vita.
And with that we come back to the point again of me seeing possibilities in the controller department, because that sounds like something that Nintendo would do, because it would be a smart move to tie in the mobile efforts even closer with their dedicated platforms, instead of just letting them be touch screen experiences only.
@rjejr This just occurred to me: they could even program their own smart games in such a way so that you could only play them with the Nintendo controllers, or with the touch screen, but in doing so, they could also make it more interesting to play with controllers (don't ask me how, they are the inventive ones, not me) so that the majority of people will be willing to invest the cash into these controllers.
And then they can once again slap the label "only with Nintendo" on it too. Would be a great marketing strategy...
And make the controls good, but make sure that they aren't quite up to par with dedicated devices, and you can even deploy it as a lure, to get people to buy their dedicated handheld and console...
@ThanosReXXX
Your guess is as good as mine. It could well be that you are right about anything.
But I am just trying to look at it from a business and logical point of view, while not letting myself misleading by all the wishful thinking going on.
Where can Nintendo go from here? The Wii U have been a disaster, and all the big western publishers have abandoned the sinking ship. If Nintendo did not also own a very profitable handheld business, the Wii U would have been the company's “Dreamcast”. They could have been out of the console business by now. Looking at it from a business point of view, it simply doesn't make sense to keep going on with home consoles.
As i mentioned before, the core gamers all left Nintendo. Most of them do not care about Mario and Zelda anymore, and Sony and MS have build up more appealing brands for that audience. Nintendo is still the less appealing “kiddy” and family oriented company for most of them. Only us diehard fans are still hanging on, and the sales numbers of the Wii U just shows how few we are.
I hear so many delusional wishful thinking fans in here, that really believes that if just Nintendo released a top power console, that would be on par with PS4 and X1, then the NX would fly from the shelves, and all the big publishers would return to the fold.
But Nintendo already tried to compete with Sony and MS a decade ago with the GameCube. And although the GameCube offered similar power than its rivals, it was not successful for Nintendo. EA and all the big western publishers were supporting it to the end, and there were many great first party titles by Nintendo, but it was not enough.
Why do people think that it would be any different today? It makes no sense anymore. And Nintendo’s position is even worse today, where all the publishers has left, and the company playing an even smaller role among the core gaming crowd.
Nintendo haven’t really competed with MS and Sony since the GameCube. But since then they have released more casual oriented consoles, and had huge success with the Wii and DS. Today Apple and Google are Nintendo's real rivals for the family friendly and children oriented gaming experiences.
Smartphones and tablets are competing with the 3DS and Nintendo's core audience. But Nintendo’s handhelds have still proven somewhat competitive, and offers much better potential in the future. Nintendo simply still have a healthy business here.
So looking forward, Nintendo needs to compete even more with tablets and mobile devices. Offering a cheaper and more gaming oriented alternative to the iPad, but with similar functionalities and media consumption options, would provide a fantastic opportunity for Nintendo.
The affordable 8-inch Nvidia Shield tablet was exactly the kind of device that Nintendo needs to produce with the NX. Offering an enhanced chip for gaming, it was a fantastic gaming tablet, but simply lacked the huge gaming catalogue that a company like Nintendo could provide. But Nintendo could really be successful with a similar device.
A Nintendo Shield like tablet, with the new Android powered Nintendo OS, Tv-play and connectable controllers. It makes so much sense.
Nintendo will never market the NX as an “Android” console, and they will never mention this at the presentation. It’s not important to the general public, and will only get in the way. Nintendo will just show off all the great stuff of the new “Nintendo OS”, and iPad like features. Running on Android will only be important to mobile developers, who then easily can port their content.
There was nothing wrong with the concept off the Ouya. Running on a forked Android powered OS was a great idea. But the final product lacked power and support. It could only work if a big gaming company like Nintendo or maybe Sega were behind it. But the concept was fine.
Your disgust against a gaming tablet is a bit ridiculous though. What is the big difference between the 3DS, and a Nintendo gaming tablet with attachable controllers? The tablet just offers newer and better functionality.
The 3DS could spoil kids just as much as tablet’s. You can get the same seductive content on the 3DS. It’s not the device fault, but the parents responsibility.
Sorry, but your “hatred” against tablets just doesn't make sense to me.
@dres FYI: just in case you never read me saying that to anyone, I'm 46, and am a seasoned professional in IT related Sales & Marketing. I know a LOT about graphical hardware and software specifically, and there is no wishful thinking going on on my side of the table.
Only logical, deductive reasoning based on what little we actually do know and stuff I learned myself so far.
And with all due respect, but if you haven't done as much serious digging as I have, and haven't talked to any triple A developers like I have, then my guess is considerably better than the average guy, you included.
I've carefully considered all options even BEFORE I was offered all the information that I possess now, and even then Android was wiped off the board pretty soon. It seems to me that you are a fan or supporter of Android and I'm sorry to say that I don't think that you offer any compelling arguments or hard evidence as to why it should be Android or even an Android fork and there is also no good reason for Nintendo to go with Android.
If the architecture for the home console is x86, as I suspect it will be, then a Linux base will be far, FAR more likely, for many reasons. Compatibility to name but one.
But of course having a competitively powered system doesn't mean that it will automatically fly off the shelves like crazy, so you're right on that one, but that goes for all systems and all new products. Even ticking all the boxes is STILL no guarantee that what you have to offer, will sell. I should know: it's my job, and I have experienced first hand not being able to sell a superior product just as well as another product that was clearly not as good. Part of that was obviously a price issue, but there were other factors involved as well.
And them competing with tablets and smart devices is DEFINITELY not a good option either. There's WAY too many watered down experiences on there, and hardly any serious triple A software that can compete on any decent level with dedicated systems. Yes the games are becoming better, and they look good, but touch screens and/or pairing controllers with a smart device just isn't the same, and neither is some kind of controller grip that you slide your smart device in. It'll still be a smart device that is equipped with a controller and that just doesn't sound like anything that Nintendo would do, like EVER.
And neither would it impress or enthuse any developers, like some others have also already said:
And nothing about something like that or a Shield 2.0 screams new, exciting or never been done before, so that simply isn't it.
And besides all the rumors about developers being positive going on, there actually are a few that are genuinely positive about NX, so that in and of itself should already hint at something that is a little more serious hardware-wise than a little Android box with a Nintendo sticker on it...
And speaking of Android boxes: there were many, MANY things wrong with the Ouya. Much like the Wii U (but even worse), it had a terrible marketing campaign, and by the time it finally came to market, the hardware was already outdated and it was woefully under-powered, and both the device and the controller were really not any well-made products.
And the team behind it, mostly the management, were a bunch of idiots, making all kinds of stupid decisions, ultimately leading to the demise. The concept was only fine on paper, but what ultimately came rolling off the factory line, definitely wasn't.
@dres P.S. Making sense is also decidedly un-Nintendo. Being quirky, very Japanese and genuinely surprising sometimes is, so no reason to expect them to start making any sense now. They will do what they think is good and/or interesting, regardless of general opinion, and that is precisely what people also love about them, even though they can sometimes also be kind of annoying, like now with waiting so long before releasing any concrete info on NX...
P.S.
Have a look at this blog to see a really interesting take on what the NX might be and do:
http://happynintendofan.blogspot.nl
@ThanosReXXX " but in doing so, they could also make it more interesting to play with controllers (don't ask me how, they are the inventive ones, not me) so that the majority of people will be willing to invest the cash into these controllers."
Put a picture of a Pokeball on it. People are paying $35 for this useless piece of garbage. Nice $9.99 friendship bracelet, but that's about it. Pokemon can sell anything. Nothing should be $35 these days unless it has a screen.
@ThanosReXXX I only brought up the Gamestop stuff b/c I have had several people tell me Gamestop doesn't know anything, it's just a store that sells stuff. And while that may be true for 98% of the people who work in the stores, the HQ guys have to be kept in the loop if only for distribution purposes. Of ocurse w/ most companies that's probably a lot easier, companies tell their customers things, but I bet Ntinedo gives them all a headache. Even those guys are probably like - "Just tell them for f@#&$ sake".
Better be more powerful than Vita, that's 5 FIVE year old tech. Would DMP, Nvidia or AMD make something less powerful than that? (Dont' feel like comparing all the specs. I know Vita was plenty powerful, but still, that was 5 years ago.)
@rjejr Here ya go:
http://kyokojap.myweb.hinet.net/gpu_gflops/
Power comparisons of all consoles and handhelds so far.
Note that numbers are in Gigaflops, not Teraflops. (1000 Gigaflops = 1 Teraflop).
So yeah, pretty safe to say that it should be entirely possible for Nintendo to make a handheld more powerful than the PS Vita, especially if they do indeed use DMP, because the standard version of that chip is clocked in at 8400 GFlops, and customizing it could bring it close to 1 TFlop, which would fit in nicely with the whole "close to Xbox One specs handheld".
@ThanosReXXX Well that certainly was a very handy dandy chart. Vita sure was powerful back in the day huh? I still think at least doubling that number shouldn't even be an issue, they should be going for more than that in 2017. Cheaper to make, smaller, less power hungry, cooler, all of that stuff. And if it's only a handheld, shoudln't it need closer to last gen power - PS3, 360, U - than this gen? Should be fine playing Zelda Wild on a handheld if it's 540p, even 720p should be doable, only stereo sound, easy to decode. 1 screen, not 2, probably. Half of X1 would be double Wii U, that sounds like a nice handheld compromise. Home needs better, but that's easily achievable, plug power and more room for heat dissipation.
So a lot of games PS4 gets should very easily get the Vita version w/o a doubt. Vita doesn't get a lot of games, but some.
@rjejr "So a lot of games PS4 gets should very easily get the Vita version w/o a doubt."
Wait, what now? How did you come to that conclusion? The PS4 is over 35 times more powerful than the PS Vita (1,85 TFlop vs 0.0513 TFlops), so that would have to be MASSIVELY downgraded games. Some indie games would work, but otherwise, you could only do games built from the ground up for the Vita.
Here's a handy converter:
http://endmemo.com/convert/computer%20speed_s.php
@rjejr What that chart DOES show, however, is that the Tegra X1's performance is only marginally better than a Wii U, so you better hope that this is really not going to be a part of NX, although for a handheld I'd give it the all clear, but not in a console, not even a hybrid...
@ThanosReXXX Well I meant all of the games available on both Vita and PS4. There are 118 cross-buy alone. Plus a bunch that have versions on both Vita and PS4. Like upcoming mosu game Mosu Stars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGnKY37EKyo
Compared to the Wii U and 3DS PS4 and Vita share A LOT of games.
@ThanosReXXX If it was X1 I'm assuming they could have announced it long ago, X2 Parker or bust. And I'm thinking they went w/ bust, but X1 wouldn't have been worth the effort.
@rjejr Parker would have been WAY too expensive, and personally, I think that no matter how much Nvidia wanted to get back into the console gaming business, they wouldn't want it THAT much, because Nintendo would NEVER pay the actual price, so they would have to come down to such an extent, that they would have to take HUGE losses for a console/hybrid that hasn't even proven itself yet, so that would be an almost insane risk.
@rjejr And compared to Wii U and 3DS any handheld or smart device shares a lot of games with a console...
(what did we get? Just Smash Bros? And Xenoblade, but that one doesn't really count since it's Wii, not Wii U)
@ThanosReXXX I was going to say Pushmo but I think even those were different games. Steamworld Dig maybe, but that's about it. OlliOlli skateboard game maybe.
But if NX could even just get Vita games and not PS4 games that would still be a big improvement.
@rjejr A big improvement provided the NX is a handheld or a hybrid. PS Vita obviously wasn't more powerful than a Wii U, so I'm expecting something more. Especially if it is a home console that they will release first.
@dres That's great that Nintendo's cheaper because it's less powerful strategy works for you. But I bought the WiiU (my first nintendo in ages) because they sold it as a system that was going to keep up with the cutting edge third party support. I like the wii u but I feel hosed. And the NX rumors so far don't bolster my confidence.
What would be nice is if we could play our 3ds games on the NX !
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