AM2R Developer Encourages Players to Support Metroid II On the eShop and to Avoid 'Hate' Against Nintendo

I get that this guy means well, but I can't possibly side with Nintendo about this with a clear conscience.

@BaffleBlend To be fair, it's their hard work. If you did something artistic for a price and you saw people making remakes of it for free, wouldn't you be upset?

End of the day, fan-remakes always get shut down because it is piracy in a new flavour. Fan-games that are original ideas tend to be left alone if they do not profit from it.

I find all this strange because I just ordered a Game Boy copy of Metroid II

I understand what he means, it's just a shame we can't demonstrate a desire for 2D adventure platforms rd by continuing to be free to download such a quality bit of work as AM2R.

They shut down the Nintendo Power database over ar archive.org too.
If Reggie and Co. spent as much attention to marketing as they do trolling copyrights, more people would have known what a Wii U was.

Nintendo will get round to another 2D Metroid eventually.

Nintendo is too busy making sure no one knows what they're planning to do to make games.

Even the developer understands.

@PleaseUnderstan Well crap. Got a Torrent to that stuff? I've got hard copies of most of it but it'd be awesome to have that around on the computer for future nostalgia. >

It's funny how people are hating on Nintendo for protecting their intellectual property. They don't do it because they want to troll everyone, they need to do it or otherwise they can't do it any more if it's needed. That's how it works, they can't say "wow awesome Remake, dude!" because they have to be consistent. Be glad they don't shut it down before it were finished, they could have done this...

I wonder how many people who downloaded the game free would actually pay a decent price if Nintendo put it on the eshop...

That's the thing about GB games. They move a bit slow, and take some patience. I have this on my 3DS, but have not beaten it. I think it seems easier than Metroid on NES. This is a smooth looking game, with the way Samus moves, IMO.

To be honest, I already downloaded Metroid II: Return of Samus, back when it first hit the Nintendo eShop.

@PleaseUnderstan Yep, Nintendo should spend less money on lawyers and more money on games and marketing. I mean, proper games, not Amiibo Festival and Amiibo Happy Home Designer which are fine as extras but not as full price retail games.

@gcunit I like how Sega deals with these things. They make agreements with fans that are better than themselves (like Christian Whitehead). That way they make remasters and even new games (like Sonic Mania) working with fans/new developers and they all get some extra money. I understand that Nintendo is worried about their IPs but they are not being very smart and they are not getting a good reputation either with this kind of decisions. Nintendo is stuck with the original versions and selling them multiple times to the same users for a relatively high price.

Well, Nintendo doesn't deserve much "love" at the moment, apart from the new Zelda!

Really confused why people are upset about Nintendo protecting their IP. Nintendo couldn't just ignore this and do nothing.

By doing nothing that would encourage other developers to do the same thing with other Nintendo IP's. You can't say Nintendo should ignore Metroid remake cause it's cool but they have every right to take down the latest Pokémon or Mario rip off on the app store.

You either protect all IP's or you don't protect any. You can't pick and choose which ones Nintendo should ignore just because you enjoy playing the game.

Hoewever, I wonder why Sega has not hired Sonic creators back...

Another example that comes to mind is Resident Evil 2 Remake. There were fans making it and then Capcom came and kindly asked them to stop, almost embarrassed. Capcom asked fans if they wanted a Resident Evil 2 Remake, fans (including myself) said yes and Capcom is making it.

In general, you have to protect your IPs, but be smart, Nintendo!

With Sumo Digital not working on Disney Infinity 3 anymore, maybe they can give us a Fzero using the Sonic and Sega All Stars template.

Nintendo fans shouldn't do anything with Nintendo IP. I wouldn't even draw a picture on a piece of paper as they'd want to claim it as their own.

Nintendo need to enter the 21st Century. It's no wonder their fanbase is shrinking faster than Wii U sales.

I'm pretty sure this guy doesn't realize people don't want another 2D Metroid game. They just wanted a free game, that's why they downloaded his game. If it had cost even $1, 10000% less downloads.

Nintendo has to shut stuff down like this. They'd fall apart as a business if they didn't.
But this has been a high profile fan project for close to a decade. Nintendo could have shut it down much sooner. To me it feels like they intentionally allowed the finished game to stay up a couple days so that plenty of people would have the chance to download.

@XCWarrior I strongly disagree. There's a zillion free games on the internet that don't receive the sort of attention that AM2R has received.
At least I can speak for myself... I have been following the project since inception because I'm a Metroid fan. And I would gladly have paid for it if Nintendo put it on the Eshop.

@sketchturner Nintendo couldn't have stopped the game being made in private - it can only intervene when the game is made public. I'd have thought, anyway.

"Nintendo close down fan made project AM2R to protect its copyright and sales of the original Metroid 2 game"

"Sales of the original Metroid 2 game improve due to fan made project AM2R"

I'm not against Nintendo protecting their IP, in fact I'm in support of it. However, you've got to love the irony if this statement drives up sales of Metroid 2 on the EShop

I wish nintendo would see the project for what it is and actually pick up the project or something. The guy did what a lot of people would have liked, and that is to modernise Metroid II. Clearly Nintendo felt it better to not put resources into making something similar, yet here we have this. Similar to the situation with Streets of Rage Remake; Sega should have taken the opportunity to work with fan enthusiasm. Sure you dont want to reward misuse or lazy attempts at making cheap profits and it may act as a bit of a deterrent for future projects, but in an instance like this, i think it actually warrants some degree of leniency and better acknowledgement than this. Thats my opinion anyway.

Metroid II(original) is too fugly in this day and age for me to play. SNES games have held up well but NES and Gameboy games, sorry a lot of them are horrible looking now(there are exceptions like Links Awakening, that's a masterpiece). I enjoyed them back in the day but I can't abide them now. Also, Nintendo way overcharge for their eShop games.

And absolutely, 2D adventure platformer games are still wanted. I'd prefer a top quality 2D Metroid over a first person effort.

I have supported Nintendo. I bought (and beat) Metroid 2 on my 3DS. It was fun and I liked it but I think AM2R is better in every way.

As for Nintendo being the bad guy, I never blame Nintendo for anything because they're pretty cool with a lot of things. Doujinshi, fan videos, cosplay, etc. They actively try new things, try to forge better partnerships with other developers, and aren't afraid of having a mature game (or "mature" content in their games).

Now, Nintendo of America on the other hand, loves to tell us what to like, what to do, and what to buy. It's weird how there's so much disconnect between how Nintendo acts in Japan, and what Nintendo of America does. I would bet money it was NoA that pushed for a C&D.

@TwistOfFate619 The problem is "fan enthusiasm" is bad for business. Nintendo would have to completely start again anyway to make it for their own platforms, so why pay the maker when they would have to start again from scratch?

The most ridiculous thing about all this is that Metroid Confrontation hasn't even been touched. Hosted on the same page, made by the same author, way less original content, yet it's still there.

@gcunit Here's one. I'd pay full price, even.

@shaneoh It's been 12 years. I'm not holding my breath.

I've already got metroid 2 as I'm sure most metroid fans do.

@3MonthBeef What was?

Nintendo may have been in the legal right to remove AM2R, but that doesn't mean they should have. Negative PR is far more damaging to them at this stage than it ever has been, both financially and branding wise. Remember E3 2015? When their announcements underwhelmed, Nintendo's stocks slumped. As @PleaseUnderstan stated quite well, Nintendo should spend less time scrutinizing their fans and more time making sure they stay afloat as a company.

@Syrek24 also when a a mario or pokemon rip off appears on the smartphones them same people are backing nintendo to take it down.

I dont see any of these people calling smartphone developers heroes when they rip off nintendo games.

@Phin68 so you would be happy for nintendo to not remove AM2R but what about other developers who steal nintendo IP's. are you happy for nintendo to not block their games?

you cant not block one but block others. legally nintendo would be setting themselves up for a huge fall if they started picking and choosing which games they should not block.

surely you can see this.

@XCWarrior I think the resurgence and popularity of Metroidvania clones all over steam and other various stores says completely otherwise. I personally try to check out most of the good ones I've been seeing and there's quite a few out there including a couple i've got money on for kickstarter.

@kobashi100 I hate to point out the obvious, but I'd guess most of those projects are made for profit, not out of love for the franchise.

Seriously, what's with these topics and the lack of common sense? Do people just casually forget things like this just to take a jab at the people on the other side of the fence or what?

A great deal of class indeed. It's sad that it's been taken down, but it's nice to hear that the skills he's developed through the project have turned into concrete results in his work as a programmer.

Something I always find slightly disappointing are the disdainful comments that turn up underneath almost every fan project, saying "if you have these sort of skills, you should be doing actual things in a real job".

The point they're missing is that a lot of people develop the skills through working on the fan project. If it weren't for the project, they might not have the skills in the first place, and certainly not to the degree they do after finishing it.

To learn something you have to practice it, and to learn something properly you have to have experience of applying it in context. It's easy to say, "you should be making something original/non-derivative!", but the fact is that working within an existing series provides a familiar, well-defined, and significantly less intimidating framework than having to come up with everything from scratch.

Not everyone can walk into a job with a half-baked or non-existent skillset and hope to learn on the fly. Working in a non-professional capacity with something you already know and love provides an immediate and logical way to cut one's teeth in that particular field. ...Even if the results are sometimes questionable.

Basically, fan projects provide a way for people to work on core skills without worrying about inventing the context. I may not actually like the results of the majority of fan projects personally - which is why I tend to ignore them - but I certainly don't think they're a waste of time by default.

Having said all that, this project actually seems to be garnering little but praise, and it's Nintendo who appear to be receiving most of the flak for not doing it themselves... But still, fair play to the creator for making it, learning from it, and accepting the sadly inevitable outcome with good grace and dignity.

@Maxz Expanding on this, this is one of the main reasons why the project took so long. The guy learned programming from scratch, eventually porting the game to C++ during development.

Yeah you can't hate on Nintendo for this. This guy knew there was a strong possibility that it would be shut down when he started this project. This isn't just an original fan-made game using Nintendo's IP, it is a remake of a game that Nintendo is actively selling on their eshop. This is being given away for free.

@GravyThief If they didn't take it down, would people be buying the original? I hope the reason Nintendo took it down was because they want to do a remake of their own.

@Maxz All creative people like that have to build their own showreel. Maybe from a professional point it would have been best for his career to keep this one private instead of breaking the law. However it has still gotten him on the bottom rung, so hopefully no harm done for his career.

Man, I don't even get Nintendo fans. They're never happy with anything Nintendo does and never happy with anything the fans do either lol.

That's mature of him, but I think he realizes---unlike most of the rabid idiots---is regardless of the takedown the game is on the internet and people will find it if they want to play it. As a creator, that's all you want, people to enjoy what you made.

@Phin68 Positive PR by allowing this wouldn't be any better. As creative people who are asked to work for "free exposure" say, you can't eat free exposure, and it never actually gets more money. Nobody would buy any extra Nintendo stuff if they let it remain, and from a business stand point they would lose money.

@MadAdam81 I guess I was more making a flippant comment in referencere to the maker's comment after the game was taken down (reported in this article), rather than the game itself. Agree the game, if not taken down, could adversely impact sales of the original.

@Kid_Sickarus If it was it's own original game inspired by Metroid, it would be a hit. But is the only reason it's a quality piece of work because it's a complete rip off of NIntendo's gameplay, design and graphics? And calling it a "fan remake" doesn't change the fact that it is a complete rip off of Nintendo's work.

Anybody expecting Nintendo to simply leave this game available to download (indeed, even demand they should have) clearly doesn't live in the real world.

@GravyThief I was asking the question because I seriously don't know.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE
"overcharge"
game boy games on the 3ds cost less than a movie ticket, and provide more entertainment time.
but sure, Nintendo "overcharges."

@Syrek24 It's called being a business and pleasing your customers, and if Nintendo was pleasing its customers, or the market for that matter, then they wouldn't have a handheld that's sold less than it's predecessor (3DS is on track to sell significantly less than DS), a console that was DOA, and a brand that continues to scream "out of touch."

I agree with you that gamers are fickle; posts about total suckage or a desire to have Nintendo quit consoles and go third party are annoying, but Nintendo hasn't been playing the game, so such comments by the lowest of the low should be expected.

I know this is a Nintendo fan site, but the apologists, like ^^^^ CharlieSmile, need a reality check.

We all know how Nintendo was going to react to this. I'm sure he did as well. In addition to giving him life skills he could use to find a job, I wouldn't be surprised if the main point of this was to send Nintendo a message about 2D Metroid games. I hope they received it loud and clear.

@MarcelRguez Point in case. Isn't that awesome?

Is it sad that the project got taken down? Yes. Is it understandable? Probably also yes.

But in the process, one guy got to learn a hell of a lot about programming and video game design, and, err... the internet got angry. But the internet is always angry, so let's focus on the former.

People may be frothing at the mouth and tearing into each other left, right and centre, but I can't shake the feeling - even with this as an ending - that the whole experience was A Good Thing.

Good for him. So, he didn't use Unity? The tool that would have made it possible to port to Wii U and 3DS? Probably didn't make sense over the years and would be tough to foresee Nintendo making the moves necessary for 3DS support so late in its life, but at least there could have been a super slim chance that it could end up on Nintendo platforms via a basically impossible deal or something.

With it Windows and Linux only. Oh well.

@VanillaLake Yes. They didn't make a real Animal Crossing game for Wii U because they were busy shutting down fan remakes.

@Maxz And that experience got him a job as a programmer. A good experience indeed, for everyone involved.

@Syrek24 Yep if there is one thing I have learned is that video game fans can be some of the most demanding, ungrateful, selfish, and self entitled pack of poops you have ever seen.

I would have to agree with what some others are saying here. In cases like these I wonder if people really have any understanding of the way copyright works. You cannot just make your own Mario style game and slap the Mario name and characters on it that is pretty much breaking copyright law. If the developer had made his own take on Metroid rather than a straight up remake of an existing game Nintendo likely would not have come after him.

People should know very well that any fan game that uses assets from an existing game without any sort of consent or permission from the original developers is pretty walking on eggshells.

One thing I come to realize is that companies like Nintendo often do a lot of things that may seem unfair or stupid from a consumers view but when you work in same sort of industry or business its easier to under better why they do what they do

@Wolfgabe It's undoubtably true.

But people on both sides are being put to shame by the maturity and groundedness of the creator - arguably the person who has the most right to be emotionally invested in the project.

EDIT: Apparently the last word is against the NL Code of Conduct - I've fallen foul of that before. Crap is fine though, for some reason. You can call people silly craps if you like.

@NoEasyBuckets Hm, I did not say that. What do you mean? Are you serious?

Classy. Everything about this project was/is top-notch.

@Maxz I am glad the creator is handling it very well. I just find it ridiculous how everytime Nintendo does something like this people lose their poop and call them Hitler even though they are simply exercising their right to protect their IP.

Sony meanwhile from what I hear has been taking down channels that even discuss No Man's Sky and no one seems to be batting an eye

Hire this guy to make an official Metroid 2 remake.

There needs to be a petition to put his version on the eshop.

@CharlieSmile My overcharging comment didn't say just Gameboy games. It's more in relation to Wii games, charging €20 when most of them can be bought physically for very often less than half that. And €5 for NES games is too much for awful looking games that are 30 years old and can easily be played for free by other means. The same goes for DS games. €10 a pop when I can play an endless supply of them on my DS for nothing. I'm not saying I approve of that nor do I do it but millions do and they do the same with Wii games. They're not giving piraters any incentive to buy their games. €20 or free? €20 or free? Hhhmm, tough choice!

Oh and even if one wanted to buy Metroid II on the Wii U it's not available.

@LUIGITORNADO Actually, comments saying Nintendo should become third party are not evil nor wrong. If Nintendo didn't publish any games for mobile phones and somebody said that they should publish games for mobile phones, Nintendo apologists would say that those people are haters. If Nintendo does it, then misteriously it becomes something logical and good.

As a traditional player, I'd prefer Nintendo making traditional games for Xbox, PS and PC than making mobile apps and wasting time on under-powered hardware people no longer want (like Wii U and probably NX).

Support the whole franchise by buying the games you like AND giving Federation Force a chance once it releases - we can't tell how good or how bad a game is before its release, right? But that still seems too hard for a purist Metroid fan to understand.

@PleaseUnderstan comments like yours gives me hope for this community after all

@Syrek24 And in the end people vote with their wallets, and they have. People don't like Nintendo too much anymore. In the end that's all that matters doesn't it?

Get a clue. HYPOCRITE.

@Syrek24 And why don't you let people complain about whatever they want to on a comments section? And why don't you spend your time on playing games rather than telling those people to shut up their mouths, following your clever reasoning? If you want to be that happy playing games, that's fine, but I don't think you really mean it.

I don't see how rewarding Nintendo here is the right thing to do.

Reward a company like Sega, who actually went out and got a few of the most loyal fans to work on a brand new 2D Sonic that actually looks like it might be the best Sonic game ever:

http://www.inceptional.com/2016/07/28/8-awesome-nostalgia-fueled-minutes-of-sonic-mania/

That's the right way to go about this kind of stuff imo; so buy Sega's new Sonic game if you want to reward a company for respecting you as fans and consumers of its products.

Just striking down all the fan made stuff, even when it's not being monetised at all (and, rather than abusing the IP, it's actually celebrating it), and also not having anything in the works that would at least replace or conflict with the work these dedicated fans are doing, so there's no good reason to shut them down (remember, this is just free fan tributes to beloved games basically), is just douche and very "corporate" as far as I'm concerned. And it's even worse with the whole YouTube crap, where it literally is abusing the Fair Use law in many cases, for a quick and easy buck.

Nintendo has been acting very "corporate" of late towards its most dedicated fans—don't waste your breath telling me it's a business, blah, blah blah (stating the obvious is a waste of air; and it's not that simple either)—and it doesn't enamour me to the company at all.

@CharlieSmile €5 ($5) for a NES rom and €20 for a Wii rom (with Miiverse support) is overcharging. Of course you could do worse things with your money (like buying an old copy of ET the video game) but Nintendo's pricing is relatively expensive when compared to every other digital store. You can't compare digital downloads and cinema tickets!

@Kirk Yep, that's exactly what I said earlier:

"I like how Sega deals with these things. They make agreements with fans that are better than themselves (like Christian Whitehead). That way they make remasters and even new games (like Sonic Mania) working with fans/new developers and they all get some extra money".

@Wolfgabe Enough with the swearing, please...

@VanillaLake Exactly.

@VanillaLake What he is trying to say is its silly to get worked up over something as trivial as a video game. If you are gonna get worked over a glorified piece of programming then you may really need to reconsider your life

@VanillaLake If you want to play NES games the legit legal way as in not just downloading a ROM, Its still way cheaper than tracking down a working NES plus a cartridge that is in good condition. If you wanna play something like the Original Pokemon games good luck finding an original cartridge that doesnt have a dead battery

Why are we supposed to be mad at Nintendo for doing this?

Every fan-made project that ripped off a Nintendo IP has been sent a cease and desist. This is an eventuality. If the creators of AM2R didn't know or expect this, that's their own stupidity.

I downloaded the game and it's good, they could have easily just made it an original creation with new sprites and a new plot, but they chose to make it a Metroid game. So I don't feel any animosity towards Nintendo or any sympathy towards the developers because this was inevitable.

They should just re-skin the game and release it on the eshop. I'd pay for it.

@Kid_Sickarus we could, if the guy had taken out metroid references and released it as its own game. Like axiom verge

@Kirk Except when you are a company like Nintendo do you really think its okay to just sit back and let someone make a game using your properties and characters without your consent? There is a reason copyright laws exist.

@Maxz I apologize if I was a bit harsh on my language

@FNL Well, he got the attention, that would be a very clever thing to do now, actually.

@Wolfgabe If you read again his comment you will find there's hypocrisy in it. About the old NES/GB cartridges comparison that you made, I'll try to explain myself again. What I said was that Nintendo's Virtual Console downloads are "relatively expensive". Those 30 year-old games should be cheaper by now when they are just a few megabytes downloads. The way Nintendo deals with their old games feels a rip-off, specially if you consider there's no cross-buy. I'm still waiting for Super Mario All Stars on the eShop, but Nintendo probably needs another 30 years of selling the same NES versions at 5 euro/dollars each to the same customers.

EDIT: NES and GB downloads should cost €1 each, not €5-10. Higher prices mean less sales and more piracy.

@Wolfgabe Yeah, people are ridiculous, hysterical fruitcakes with no sense of context or proportion.

But we've known that for a while now, so let's talk about something more illuminating.

I hope this experience acts as a springboard - both in terms of gained exposure and skills - for this creator to make something original and interesting. The new bosses and other elements in the game show that he's got wider interests than just reproducing things brick for brick; there clearly IS a desire to develop original ideas, as well as learn about the technical processes behind them.

What you're saying is that people shouldn't lose their sh... crap about Nintendo taking this down. And I agree with you 100%. After all, why would anyone buy an original copy of Metroid II if they can get a vastly improved version for free online? But people are losing their crap about it. Because this is 2016, and being a self-absorbed, thin-skinned, emotionally unstable winge-bag is currently the coolest thing since sliced bread on a skateboard. I'm not sure what to do about that. I'm not sure anything can be done.

That aside, the main point I'm trying to make is that despite this being taken down, I don't think the act of creating it was immoral - especially as the creator didn't charge for it and was very sympathetic about its removal.

I think trying to recreate something is the most natural way of learning about both the thing itself and the thought processes of the original designer. We see it in the acquisition of pretty much every other widespread skill there is; budding musicians are encouraged to transcribe musical pieces and play them from ear to develop an understanding of how the notes are structured and how they relate to their own instruments; art students are often encouraged to try and recreate a master's work stroke for stroke to gain a feel for the techniques. They're not expected to sell the copies on the whole, but in fairness, this wasn't being sold either. Of course, the difference comes down to the distribution model; a painting can't really be infinitely distributed, leading it to 'replace' the original (and all associated sales) but a piece of software can.

Granted, to be completely 'above board' the owner technically shouldn't have even made it public at all, but I feel that releasing it without profit, and then being very gracious about its inevitable removal is the next best thing.

I just find it very understandable that anyone with an interest in game design would want to polish their skills by recreating an original work, and very understandable that upon doing so they would want to share their efforts with the world... and ALSO very understandable that Nintendo would want to take it down. The whole thing is really very understandable, and - as you've said - not worth losing too much sleep over or getting too angry about.

Oh, and I don't mind about the language personally! I probably would have used the same words. In fact, I have used one of the same words previously and was surprised when I got my wrist slapped for it, so I just thought I'd give a heads up.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE if by nothing you mean emulation then yes for nothing. I prefer to pay for things.

Aww that is very nice of the developers not too be salty but still support Nintendo n Metroid.

@faint So do I but when something is priced at what I consider too high, I go without.

You do have to think about it from the preventative side of this too.
Nintendo want a reputation of a company who will have zero tolerance on this issue, as that will make things a lot easier for them down the line, because fewer people will try to do this kind of thing.

You know, there is nothing stopping this guy from giving the game a reskin. While they can't use Nintendo's IP, they can still use the coding / style of game play.

Plus these comments of "well Nintendo is evil" is just silly. If you play with Nintendo's IP for fan games, they can easily take them away from you. The IP Law for any company is there for a reason and these people know what they are getting into.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE "They're not giving piraters any incentive to buy their games. €20 or free? €20 or free? Hhhmm, tough choice!"

To be fair, that can be applied to any game ever, and as a rule of thumb, it doesn't matter if the games are as cheap as £1, because that is still £1 more than nothing, meaning pirating the game is still the better option.

As far as I'm concerned, it is not that the prices are unreasonable, but that people want everything for nothing, so even if you give pirates an incentive, they still won't take it. The only pricing issue I have with Nintendo, is why am I paying £1/£2 extra for the same game on 3DS as opposed to Wii U. I'm looking at every single NES/SNES game on the store when I say this.

@Wolfgabe When it's not been monetised in anyway and ultimately just amounts to a piece of fan art (arguably), I think it's not such a big deal to let it lie. This isn't a case of someone stealing/abusing Nintendo's IP and trying to profit from it, which it what copyright law is mostly there to stop; it's just a few fans who've made an amazing tribute game. Personally, if it were my company, I'd be embracing and actually celebrating stuff like this. You know, much like this kind of thing is absolutely embraced and celebrated:

http://www.startrekcontinues.com/

http://www.mother4game.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPbvxRft02g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVD1aQH6ZCg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXOBHnWiinY (and, look what happened in this case: http://www.mtv.com/news/1899150/doctor-who-opening-sequence-fan-made/)

And again, this awesome new and official Sonic game was born out of fan-made creations:

http://www.inceptional.com/2016/07/28/8-awesome-nostalgia-fueled-minutes-of-sonic-mania/

Imagine if everyone always shut down stuff like this immediately—it would just be sad, destructive and detrimental in some ways, and ultimately stupid, imo.

Nintendo is being stupid, imo.

@MasterS7000 I particularly don't agree. I think it's fair paying once a fair price, but paying a relatively high price more than once for the same game makes me feel ripped-off, and that's what Nintendo does. I also believe piracy would be smaller if Nintendo was not that stingy.

@Syrek24 Telling people to grow up and stop acting like children. But here you are acting like a manchild defending your precious Nintendo from harm. Odd

"It's not easy to agree with Nintendo's over-zealous policies against fan-made games"

It's not Nintendo's policy, everyone with a copyrighted IP worth defending would do the same thing. I don't understand why that's so hard for people to grasp.

At least it's good to know the AM2R dev gets it, he should replace any Metroid content and just release it as his own game. With his team's talent, it should not be hard to come up with replacement characters.

@Kirk Is Mother 4 finished?

@VanillaLake Nope, still not. It will be one day though. . . .

@Kirk And we'll have to be quick downloading it before Nintendo shuts it down.

@nab1 No they don't, as I have shown above with a few good examples. Some companies actually embrace this kind of stuff for the most part—as long as it's free and probably made clear it's just fan works too.

The reaction to this game's takedown reminds me of the online petition for the creator of kat.cr at https://www.change.org/p/https-www-justice-gov-free-artem-vaulin. Quote:

"Our freedom to share is the human right which Artem Vaulin has been providing to millions of users. By arresting him our rights are violated. "

People should seriously learn how copyright works, and where our "rights" stop. It's so silly.

@VanillaLake Well, 99.9% of it is actual original work, created from scratch by these guys specifically for this game. So, if Nintendo decides to be a douche about this one, these guys could simply change the name and remove/replace the one or two actual Mother characters in the game (there's not many), and then it would be entirely their own creation and protected under the very same copyright laws as Nintendo's work is. And that's exactly what I'd do if Nintendo decided to be a tool here—and it would be another fan project that could have actually promoted Nintendo's brands and franchises in a positive way but that could now actually end up being sold and competing directly with them (and that's also exactly what I'd do if Nintendo's going to be wide about it). So, in this case I don't think we have too much to worry about.

@PleaseUnderstan I don't think you understand what a "copyright troll" is, and your inference that Nintendo fall into this category is unapologetically idiotic.

@Kid_Sickarus ...for free.*

@Kirk the only example I see from you is the Sega/Sonic one. That is indeed a good example of handling this the best way for consumers, but I'd bet good money that the original developer (Thomas Whitehead is it?) handled it differently, probably contacted Sega from the start or at least opened a communication channel with them expressing his ideas. This developer apparently did not. He could even have gone the route of Fast Racing Neo, releasing it as his own "inspired by" game at the very least, and maybe even get Nintendo's support. Not to crap on the AM2R dev, he did do an amazing development work, just maybe not a good business work.

@3MonthBeef Ya I suppose it's alright, I was being a little unfairly overcritical.

There's one thing I don't understand. I'm not a fan of 2D Metroid games, but if I was and I was not able to download this version, as a Metroid fan I would be very annoyed, yet some people here are more Nintendo lawyers than players or fans. Weird.

@nab1 Thomas Whitehead is one of our dear Nintendo staffers. You mean Christian Whitehead.

@nab1 I think Christian initially just went and made his own thing without ever really contacting any companies, as most of these fans usually do, and eventually it got back to someone at Sega and then things started happening (it may have been because he contacted them eventually, but I doubt he did so upfront). But, I don't see any need for these guys to go to Nintendo first, personally. I say make the art, enjoy it, and then see what happens.

@Kirk Interesting that this game is "99.9% original" and yet the map is like 90% identical to the map from the original game.

We can all agree that the shop pricing is weird, but do people really think that paying five bucks is too much? Was paying $30 outrageous for a Game boy game back in 1993? I'm looking at the comments and some said they should only cost a dollar! That wouldn't even cover the cost of the server hosting the data. Look I know we aren't all rich and still want things, but if your complaining about 20 quid for a last gen game then it's more of an issue with your spending habits then with Nintendo's pricing.

@VanillaLake Yeah, thanks for clearing that, I just knew it was one of the Whiteheads

@-DEMISE- It could be 100% identical for all it matters. All the actual art assets, code, music, and other stuff (or 99.9% of them) are original creations by those guys, and they are protected under copyright law just as Nintendo's creations are. A general map layout in a Mother game is almost certainly not likely to be copyrighted, particularly if it's literally just the layout we're talking about and not any of the actual art assets you see in the actual game (which ultimately means it would actually look different to most people, and almost certainly play differently too).

It would be like trying to claim the first level in Mario is copyrighted and that no one could make a level with a similar layout, even if their game looks and plays differently in every way. You might imagine Nintendo has absolutely domain over even stuff like that, but it doesn't. Copyright law is douche at times—or at least it is when these giant corporations decide to push it to its limits and in some cases even abuse it—but it's not completely absurd.

@PleaseUnderstan

Nooooo! I was gonna dig in the NintendoPower archives this weekend:[

"Nintendo's over-zealous policies against fan-made games"

I don't see how they are over zealous. In any case, they are one of the more lenient company to let fangames and ROM hacks alive. I think there's something else behind this, or the fact that it's basically Metroid 2 for free.

I haven't seen Super Mario Bros X getting a C&D which is one of the more popular fangames or Mother 4, neither the multiple ROM hacks from SMW and other 2D Mario games. (As for the ROM Hacks, it's possible to C&D them, because Square Enix did it against a Chrono Trigger ROM hack)

@Uzuki I don't think the complaint is on whether $5 is too much, but rather on why you need to pay for it more than once. But that's a separate discussion that shouldn't matter on this.

Well the dude managed to put the finished game on the internet where it will be alive forever so there can't be to harsh of feelings anyways. With all the free press of the game getting taken down I'm sure people went into other sites to download it. In the end this was a passion project for Metroid fans and the Metroid fans did and still can the game if they look around hard enough.

@VanillaLake Exactly.

They're acting as though they have some kind of invested financial stake in Nintendo or have been hired by the company to protect its interests above all other considerations.

Me, "I fight for the users."

The people people who say he could just reskin it with original characters I hope realize that this was a remake of Metroid 2. It is not a simple reskin of some characters to bring it back out. That would be like me releasing Super Mario Bros. but the only difference is Mario wears orange. They could build something from the ground up but it is not as simple as one may think.

@nab1

@Uzuki But how much more money do they want to charge for 30 year-old games that are a few megabytes big? The server argument is over-inflated. Besides, Nintendo is going the wrong way. On Wii U you only paid a small fee for downloading the same Virtual Console games (since day one). On 3DS you pay the same full price again: €8 for a SNES (or even €10), €5 for a NES game and so on, shutting down the almost-cross-buy option they started with. Now look at the other digital stores: good pricing, cross-buy, freebies, etc. Nintendo is stuck behind times and with little success as the main consequence.

@Kirk, yeah, it's unbelievable. I'm a gamer. What are they?

@Kirk Except this game doesn't "play different in every way." A different engine and a new look don't change that it still plays roughly the same. That's the whole point of a remake.

@VanillaLake They are mindless, mass-media programmed, social-media conditioned sheep. They fight for the corporations.

I FIGHT FOR THE USERS!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiw2FbHBd14

And, the full trailer, just because it's awesome (imagine seeing this for the first time as a kid in the early '80s, when most home games were still plain white dots on a black screen):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3efV2wqEjEY

@VanillaLake "some people here are more Nintendo lawyers than players or fans."

Ah man! How'd you sniff us out? And to think we spent all this time crafting these fake "Nintendo fan" identities. 28 years of work down the drain. Alright team, back to Nintendo HQ. The jig is up.

"There's one thing I don't understand."

That's clearly a massive understatement.

@bogofet I think they eventually came to some agreement on that or something. But, the only reason they were really able to raise an issue is because there was some kind of money involved, and that's why they started with the whole copyright infringement crap. If it were entirely free, like the Star Trek example I posted above, it probably wouldn't have had any issues getting made at all. Although, never underestimate the doucheness of the corporations.

@Kirk "They are mindless, mass-media programmed, social-media conditioned sheep. The fight for the corporations."

lol how are you a real person? You're like a South Park character or something.

@-DEMISE- No, I'm not real (maybe "hyper-real"). I'm just a figment of your imagination—your worst nightmare.

Was that movie-like enough for you?

@-DEMISE- Yeah, it's an understatement, I don't understand anything about you. Well, now I do, because now I know what you are (one of those sheep).

@VanillaLake Fair enough. To be fair, this is from anecdotal experience, since the majority of my friends, do indeed pirate their games, even when said games cost less than what Nintendo is charging for NES/GB games. So yeah, perhaps I just don't know enough pirates.

I wouldn't complain if crossbuy was a thing, but unfortunately, I don't think anyone here is the arbiter for Nintendo's VC prices.

@Kirk Those supposed sheep dont fight for the corporations they just display some semblance of common sense and understanding on the way copyright works. This remake used the Metroid name and characters all without any sort of consent from Nintendo. The guy was infringing on Nintendo's ownership of the Metroid name no matter how try to slice it. When you are company you have to take steps to protect your interests.

@-DEMISE- It legally doesn't have to play any differently; it could play basically identically. General gameplay (game mechanics) is not protected by copyright:

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2016/06/texas_court_ruling_states_that_game_mechanics_cant_be_protected_by_copyright

@nab1 Welcome to the internet where all logic and common sense goes to die a horrible painful death

@Wolfgabe No, they fight for the corporations. They just don't understand enough about the world to know that's what they're doing.

And, again; using another company's art assets is not in violation of copyright law in and of itself. It almost always has to involve money in one form or another before there's any legal grounds for action.

But hey, you understand Copyright law, right—so why am I'm even bothering to tell you anything about something you clearly already understand down to the smallest minutiae.

@MasterS7000 Thanks for your reply. You have a point, some people wouldn't even pay €1 for any game. And, if they could, they wouldn't pay anything at the supermarket either. And here I am, I have spent thousands of euros on Nintendo stuff in my life, now being scolded by mindless apologists.

@Uzuki "but if your complaining about 20 quid for a last gen game then it's more of an issue with your spending habits then with Nintendo's pricing."

The Wii games on the eShop are way overpriced. Sure there's the rare odd exception like MPT. But look at Super Paper Mario that released today, it's €20. You can freely buy it for less than half that price physically. Then sell it on when you're finished or play it on other consoles. You can't do that with digital games. There are some Wii games like Other M that can be bought for €5 new physically. The vast majority are overpriced and labelling every game with a €20 rubber stamp regardless of quality is wrong. Not to mention Nintendo do relatively little for Wii games, it's pretty much a file dump run through the Wii mode of the Wii U.

@VanillaLake Ooo, sick burn.

@Kirk So lemme get this straight if someone made their own game using characters and assets from a game you made without your consent would you be happy with that?

@VanillaLake All great points well made.

@Kirk Yes, we know. But thankfully Nintendo didn't NEED to focus on just the gameplay. They had the name, the character, the world map, the fact that it was obviously a remake of their game, and also the gameplay to make it obvious that this was a remake of their game. But what do I know, I'm just a sheep. Lolol

@-DEMISE- You try to sound clever but you sound like a five years old troll, you try to be at @Kirk's level in vain, lacking the reasoning and intelligence, calling people ignorant repeatedly, not only us but you called bad names people this morning without being necessary, because you are always first starting a fight. Your arguments are: I am right and you are ignorant.

@Kirk @Kirk @VanillaLake @nab1 I totally get the whole double pricing thing, that's why when I buy these games I make sure to think which system I'm going to play it more on. It's one of the biggest flaws of the eshop. My thing is why do so many feel like they NEED it for both systems? If the pricing is too much wouldn't it make sense to buy it on the system you play the most?

@Kirk No one here is being a Nintendo lawyer apologist. Although I can see where both sides are coming from, Nintendo is more in the right then the fans are. A lot of companies, more specifically their legal departments, are willing to look the other way with fan products as long as they aren't using assists from their commercial products and it doesn't overshadow their IP.

AM2R not only used assist from Zero Mission, but also became too popular to just leave alone. You bring up Mother 4 which is probably the best way to make an fangame. Outside of some name drops and the aesthetics, which is something that cannot be copyrighted, the game is it's own thing, but you can still see the homage in the product.

@Wolfgabe I don't think @Kirk would call anybody mindless just because they agree with Nintendo about "protecting" their IPs, he is talking about people that don't think as gamers but as Nintendo's lawyers without being paid for, actually he was answering this comment of mine:

"There's one thing I don't understand. I'm not a fan of 2D Metroid games, but if I was and I was not able to download this version, as a Metroid fan I would be very annoyed, yet some people here are more Nintendo lawyers than players or fans. Weird".

@Kirk Yes, we're mindless sheep.... that just happen to have the minimal, basic maturity and understanding of business and laws to know this is expected to happen with protected copyright. As awesome as it would be to have AM2R released on the eShop, it's not just a matter of someone creating it and posting it online. Maybe it should be, but currently it's not and there are laws in place to protect the creators, and even this game developer understands this. If there were not, you'd have a lot of situations like what happened on mobile with Threes and 2048, as an example that really bugged me as an aspiring game developer.

Well that's commendable of him. He knows that the game is out there now though, and so people that want to play it and experience it will find a way to do so. What would be great is if Metroid II sales on the virtual console suddenly increased because of this. It's not hard to imagine someone playing a remade game and afterwards becoming interested in playing the original.

Likewise I'm still of the belief that this fan remake wouldn't detract from actual Metroid game sales. The primary audience for the virtual console service is people that want to play original games in close-to-original format. Otherwise they'd just be buying the latest games or possibly their remakes to begin with.

@VanillaLake You don't often hear the argument that Sega has managed the Sonic IP better than Nintendo handles any of its IPs.

In any case, I fully understand why a company (or a person, for that matter) would take steps to control its own IP. I mean, they wouldn't let Sony use the Metroid universe to make a game, why should they let "fans" do it? Seems like a good way to lose control of your creations, let them be defined by those who may not share your vision, and ultimately confuse consumers. Instead of remaking an existing game, these fans should make a "new" game with substantially similar mechanics.

In any case, Nintendo has always maintained strict control over its products, both hardware and software (just ask Tengen). But that propensity for control goes hand-in-hand with their focus on quality. That quality control obsession is what allowed them to revive the video game industry in the 80s. Everyone (developers, retailers, even Nintendo's own marketers) hated it then too, but it's the reason so many of the NES games were so good, and at least part of the reason our hobby still exists today. Like it or not, control is baked into Nintendo's DNA. One of the ways they assert that control is through litigation and the threat of litigation.

Hate Nintendo for what? I downloaded it today. Its kind of "OUT THERE" now!! Prob thousands sharing it on Google Drive! Really enjoying it. Glad its styled on the 2 GBA games. Really enjoying it so far. Find it odd that Nintendo has more of a problem with this than all the torrent sites and rom sites that offer free games!

@Uzuki Well, if no one complains, it's like Nintendo is right and they can rise those prices even more and that we agree with removing the cross-buy option they started with.

I am one of the guys that took part of the bring-Project-Zero-to-Europe-and-America movement and we got what we asked for. Complaining is good as long as you think your intentions are good. At the end of the day, we both could live without video games, but if I'm taking part of this, I want to voice my opinion.

@earthboundlink

"they wouldn't let Sony use the Metroid universe to make a game, why should they let "fans" do it? Seems like a good way to lose control of your creations, let them be defined by those who may not share your vision, and ultimately confuse consumers."

Thank you, there's no clearer way to explain the issue here. Fan games have a place, and it's fun to play the rare ones that are actually good, but you can't escape the reality unto which they are released.

Classy. I approve. :]

@earthboundlink No, I didn't say that, but I'm happy to explain it to you again. I said that Sega was clever when they cooperated with Christian Whitehead instead of suing him of whatever. Actually, I said that fans were better than Sega when it comes to making Sonic games, and that's only because the original Sonic creators don't work for Sega any more. If you ask me, I would love them to work with Sega as freelancers, like David Wise on Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze, but that's another story. As for Nintendo's Seal of Quality, well, after the GameCube era ended we all know that it does not mean much...

@PleaseUnderstan I'm sad that they shut down the nintendo power archive I was looking forward to reading all the old issues I missed

@Syrek24 Yes, you are very mature...

Syrek24: "the whiny children like yourself (...) you're more than welcome to hit the road (...)".

And I quote you because I always see the same attitude in you, I know you were not talking about me but you were being quite hypocrite.

@VanillaLake I wasn't offended until you said I was trying "to be at Kirk's level." This is perhaps the lowest of all blows.

Also http://cdn.thisiswhyimbroke.com/images/miniature-violin.jpg

@bogofet Both things work for me.

Regardless of the copyright debate at hand, I feel it would benefit both parties if Nintendo co-operated with this developer and worked together to put this game on the eShop, for instance. It's been about six years since a Metroid title released, and we have a completed game ready that people have shown a demand for.

@-DEMISE- It would have sounded so pretentious if I mentioned myself, although I know you are extremely pretentious so probably it would have not surprised you at all.

@VanillaLake @-DEMISE- @Kirk
Guys, please walk away from the playground confrontation and sleep it off. No one here is chanting "fight! fight! fight!" that's all in your head.

@Syrek24 I know. This site has a handful of overly-sensitive types and some rabble rousers, and they don't exactly avoid aggravating these people.

@aaronsullivan lol I didn't know it was a fight. These people are just funny to me.

@VanillaLake Yeah, I've read your last comment like eight times now and I still can't understand what you're trying to say there, so I got nothing.

@aaronsullivan I know, it's because @-DEMISE- started it this morning being rude to everybody and I just replied to him twice and he called people ignorant just because they didn't agree with him, so sad... And now on this thread he started the fight again, it's like he really likes getting some attention even though he's not capable of getting it in any way other than being disrespectful, so that's all he can do.

@VanillaLake Which it is fine, but it's kind of futile to complain with such bitter wording (Not you specifically, just certain other users) on a blogging website about shop pricing or legality issues with IPs when there isn't anyone that matters would read it and Nintendo hasn't shown yet that they're going to just keep increasing the price. I personally think $5 is fair enough to legally play an NES/GB game because Nintendo is a corporation first and goodwill towards the consumer doesn't pay the light bill and the people who made these games are still in the industry in some form or fashion and deserve their fair share of money for their creation too.

@Wolfgabe Here, go do it right now:

http://www.inceptional.com/inceptionals-games/

As long as you're not selling the games as though they're official iNCEPTIONAL products, I don't give a hoot.

In fact, if your games are real good, sell them as iNCEPTIONAL games and give me a cut—I'd be more happy than you could imagine if that happened.

Nice to see the creator of AM2R has a cooler head than some of the people moaning on here.

Ultimately if you pay attention to Nintendo's own remakes you can see why they try to take down these sort of projects:

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/sales/software/ds.html
https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/sales/software/3ds.html
Super Mario 64 DS: 11.06 million
Pokemon HG/SS: 12.72 million
Pokemon OR/AS: 12.24 million
Ocarina of Time 3D: 4.30 million

To put it simply Nintendo's remakes can sell outstandingly well. Some can sell almost as well as the original entries and are important games for their consoles/handhelds. Regardless of how good the intentions are people making these sort of fan projects for PC for free it disrupts Nintendo's ability to re-release their games because in a way it steals their thunder for if and when they decide to remake their games and Nintendo would have a good case for lost revenue.

I think if someone or some group managed to remake a Nintendo game and were foolish enough to refuse to take it down after a Cease & Desist. Nintendo would definitely take legal action against them because there's literally tens or hundreds of millions at stake.

@nab1 in reply to @earthboundlink's Good, but I never said that Nintendo should not protect their IPs, all I said was that Nintendo should be clever. Take Sega's example of working with fans/new developers in making the Sonic remakes and even a brand-new game (Sonic Mania). Nintendo has the right to shut down Metroid 2 remake, but this is not going to help them in any way. I don't even think the remake steals any Metroid II sales but the opposite, it makes more people curious about old Metroid games.

@-DEMISE- Yes, we know this. This is why it even had any case at all in this instance. If he had made a whole new game and just stuck the Metroid name on it, there'd be little Nintendo could legally do other than tell him to remove the name. So, obviously there's a line, but even in this case it's still a free game and not some rip-off product that someone's trying to sell to profit off of Nintendo's IP, and that's the biggest thing to consider here imo. Nintendo's not having its IP abused here; it's having its IP celebrated by passionate fans. Shooting this kind of stuff down it just stupid business as far as I'm concerned.

It's not impossible that Nintendo has a Metroid 2 remake in development right now. We don't have the full story. Even if they don't, Nintendo has every right to control how their IP is represented even if they fail at it as they have been lately. It's Nintendo's IP that they have developed. Another unfortunate issue here that doesn't face some other properties directly is that these retro-styled games have the capacity to be in direct competition to something Nintendo might offer. Doesn't matter if it's free or not. In many ways it's more damaging to Nintendo's business proposition if it is free.

What Nintendo needs to do to make this right with fans is to provide a controlled place to harbor these things. Something that is clearly a place for fans to make derivative works that are clearly not to represent Nintendo quality standards or represent anything official. I think Starwars.com did something like this once. Would be good to see some communication on the issues at least.

@Just10 Because the game is made with game maker, only works on PC, and there are assists from Zero Mission which is illegal to do. If Nintendo wanted to use this they would have to remake it from scratch which would defeat the whole purpose of taking it.

I'll tell you this: 99.99% of you don't really have the slightest clue what you're talking about when it comes to IP law. You just imagine otherwise. And, ironically, most of you who don't have a clue like to go around accusing other people of not having a clue. lol

@Kirk If you take a look at the sales of Nintendo's own remakes you'll see why Nintendo would likely never want a fan releasing a Metroid II remake whether it's free or not no matter how good the intentions were. Especially on a platform that is not Nintendo's and without their permission.

There's millions at stake through potential lost sales in the scenario Nintendo decide to remake the game themselves.

@VanillaLake Fair enough. Indeed, nintendo should grab AM2R and make it it's own somehow, I don't argue that. And you're right, I have absolutely zero interest in playing Metroid 2, yet AM2R does interest me because it makes the original better and worth playing IMO, in some slight ways better than even Super Metroid, with the whole MP auto-scanning added in which is really nice.

One can only hope the legal takedown is the known, necessary first step to keep their IP safe, and then they'll move on to pursuing getting the game or a version of it released officially (assuming they don't have something of their own cooking, which is a fair assumption). This is the ideal outcome I'd really hope, but sadly may probably never happen.

@XCWarrior

Wow, talk about completely missing the point. If they wanted Metroid II for free (a 20 year old game no less) you can download a rom and an emulator to run it anywhere. People like AM2R because it took the original game and improved it 1000 times. Even Retro commented on a Metroid II remake, so clearly this is something people have wanted for a while. (Unlike Federation Force, which no one wanted.)

That said, I find it funny how people are praising Sega but seem so quick to forget how they shut down Streets of Rage Remake the moment V5 went live, despite having told Bombergames it was fine years before.

@Uzuki I wanted to reply to you because of your kind words, but I don't know what else can I say about that. I think that Virtual Console games are expensive except Metroid Prime Trilogy when it was €10 and if they release Super Mario All Stars for €8 then it's fine. So many NES and SNES games going for 5-10 each without cross-buy option, just look at the other stores, look at other classic compilations, Nintendo's pricing is just not right. I voice my opinion here, on Miiverse and wherever. Someone will listen. As for the "buy it for the console you play the most" argument, well, if I was nice enough to buy both consoles, it would be nice if Nintendo didn't sell me the same stuff twice.

@Syrek24 Are you talking about us or about you and @-DEMISE-? Because they only rabble-rousers I'm reading here are you two.

@nab1 I think the biggest issue is that AM2R's release stole some of the thunder of a Nintendo made Metroid II remake would have had. The excitement that would have came from a reveal of an Official Nintendo remake of the game has been in a way dampened or ruined by the fact AM2R got a lot the media coverage it would have received, a "Metroid II remake" isn't going to turn as many heads now that there's already been a free one.

@Syrek24 Says you.

@Onion I had no idea of Sega shutting that down, I only mentioned the case of Christian Whitehead working with Sega after he had already made an iOS Sonic port which was not licensed in the beginning.

@Dr_Lugae Indeed: Words pulled straight from the mind of a corporation—which you seem to be well in tune with.

Luckily, some business don't think only in terms of the most obvious bottom-line figures and little else.

Some companies can see the bigger picture just a little better, I guess.

@Dr_Lugae That's probably true, but we might be giving AM2R's coverage more credit than it might merit. I mean, outside of die-hard Metroid fans or people who are into these kind of fan games and follow related news, does the world at large really knows this is a thing that exists? I guess the answer to that might be that it's only the die-hard fans that buy Metroid games, which might explain from a business perspective why Nintendo isn't all over this game instead of focusing efforts elsewhere.

@Dr_Lugae I have to disagree with comment #186. When Capcom asked Resident Evil 2 unofficial remake to stop I remember that the post that Capcom published was very friendly and they even asked fans if they wanted Capcom to make a Resident Evil 2 remake. Now, the hype for Resident Evil 2 Remake is huge, even bigger than Resident Evil 7 hype, and it all started with a fan project.

Yeah.... I bought Metroid II for my 3DS last night even though I own the actual physical cart. I figured it was only $4 bucks, so why not. I can play it with a larger screen now. It bothers me that Nintendo doesn't have a Super Game Boy or GBA mode for their GameBoy VC games though.

I don't like it, but I completely understand. We ALL want Nintendo to succeed and become the awesome game company that they once was, but we(as fans) have to face the music and move on. It's Nintendo's IP, so they have full right to do what needs to be done. Did I play it? Yes. Did I enjoy it? F*** YES!! Am I mad about what Nintendo has done? Yeah, but I'll get over it. It's one of those things that the fans have to say, "Well, since we can't have any more good times on your system, we'll go somewhere else."

Me, I plan on buying a really good PC. I'm getting too old for this rollercoaster that Nintendo is doing...

@Syrek24 LOL If I was overly sensitive I would not defend other people on Nintendo Life like I do but I would hide myself as much as I could. I really think you and @-DEMISE- are "rabble-rousers" (using your words) and also hypocrite and that act like Nintendo's lawyers without being paid, which is quite stupid, if you ask me, so I really think you are the ones not enjoying games but just obsessed with defending a company that doesn't care about you and will never do.

I'm just a gamer, an intelligent gamer with an opinion. I buy, I play, I say what I like and what I don't like, it's that simple. You guys only reply when I "don't like" something, aggressively, because you are here only to defend Nintendo, not to talk about games, not to agree or disagree and certainly not to discuss.

@MadAdam81 yeah, maybe so. I don't know a great deal about game development so I'm not sure how much was hard work and how much was standing on the shoulders of giants. I do know that having downloaded it I enjoyed it and if it had been an official release I would have felt it was money well spent and would have been hopeful for more. Thanks for the reply.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE Thanks.

@gcunit. That may be true but there have been public demos for many years.

@VanillaLake

I agree, a fair chunk of the people here are not capable of critical thinking unless it's about Sony or MS. As for the Sega thing, I was just saying that Sega aren't exactly angels either, they've shut down their share of fan projects too, including a Sonic 2 remake. Nintendo and Sega are both guilty of the same thing, but memories tend to be short and people are more apt to remember (or not be aware of) more recent events and not those that happened years ago.

Capcom I will say, is usually pretty good about this sort of thing, but not Sega. Sega has shut down plenty of quality fan projects. I can't think of too many Capcom shut down off the top of my head, they're generally pretty chill about that.

@-DEMISE- I would have been happy to pay for it. If it had popped up on the e-shop I'd have felt practically compelled to

@Onion Yes, you are probably right. I ignore what Sega has done outside the Sonic agreement. And yes, funny that some people have accused me here of being a Sony fanboy, they should read my posts on PushSquare! Why I would I hate Nintendo and have a Wii U and a new 3DS, in between?

About Capcom, all I know is how shy they acted when they asked those fans to stop the Resident Evil 2 Remake, I think Capcom was already planning to make Resident Evil 2 Remake themselves and actually their cancelation request came quite early, they didn't wait until the project was advanced. After all, Capcom had already done the Resident Evil 0 and 1 remake remasters, so it's not surprise Resident Evil 2 was next.

@Kid_Sickarus I'm curious about downloading both Metroid II and AM2R, and I'm not even a Metroid 2D fan (I am more a Metroid Prime fan).

@VanillaLake I haven't played any metroid released earlier than Super Metroid (which I loved til I got stuck I forget where), but after playing AM2R I also want to play Metroid 2 (like watching a remake then seeking out the original to see the differences).

@Kid_Sickarus Good, one of the main differences must be colour. My first Metroid was Metroid Prime.

@Kirk That's fine for you to operate your own business that way. Most businesses don't do it that way, and for good reason.

@Kid_Sickarus I bet.

@Onion "(Unlike Federation Force, which no one wanted.)"

I want Federation Force. Other people do too. So don't say no one wants it.

I want more co-op games in Nintendo's arsenal. That's what makes Spaltoon so great. They are giving a chance of reviving Metroid with a Splatoon like online mode. You Negative Nancies just aren't seeing that.

The last thing I want any company to do is remake a classic. It's fine as it is. Most of the time you just Ghostbusters or Total Recall crap things or a FFVII remake that might be episodic. Remakes might be profitable, and that's why they do them, but I want new games and fresh ideas. This is a fresh idea.

@VanillaLake No, you're definitely overly-sensitive. I don't know anything about you, so I have nothing personal to say about you. But you obviously can't handle it when your take on things comes under a skeptical eye.

I am glad things worked out for him. Seriously though, you cannot hate on Nintendo for this. Just because this was a great remake, it was not his to remake and he know this. To accept this, regardless of its quality, sets a legal precedence that ANYONE can do what they what with their franchises and characters that they created. That is simply a mistake that Nintendo cannot afford to make.

He is right, support Nintendo with your purchases to show that you want remakes, sequels, and new franchises. They make decisions based on how well something sells not because they are money-grubbing, but because they already know through testing that their games make people happy...they just don't know what the public wants unless they buy it. No demand, no product.

And to let anyone use their characters or redo their games would quickly get out of control and cheapen the one thing they have going for this industry...their franchises.

@XCWarrior I also am looking forward to Federation Force. As a lover of all things Metroid, yes, I want a REAL Metroid game. But that doesn't detract from the fact that I ALSO think Federation Force looks like a fun game. It's just hard for people to get over it when their own personal wants aren't met.

@XCWarrior

The staggering amount of dislikes it gets says contrary. Us 'negative nancies' want a real Metroid game, as -DEMISE- said above, not Baby's First Co-Op Shooter pretending to be Metroid. AM2R is Metroid, Federation Force is not and has graphics worse than Hunters on DS. The devs behind AM2R know what fans want more than Nintendo does, which is sad to say the least.

@-DEMISE- You are right, you definitely don't know me.

Guys whats with the arguing. Samus recently was playable in her own Nintendo licensed game. The game was called smash bros 4 and she is a great c+ character. I recommend try playing that. it even has metroids as enemies that you have to fight through. You're welcome; now feel free to use self control and not prattle on about which users have the lowest intelligence.

@Onion And don't forget about Metroid Other M which I personally disliked.

@RandomBlue To be honest, there's just one user that started calling everybody else ignorant and insecure, probably mirroring his own complex.

"Show them that 2D adventure platformers are still a thing people want"
His logic is beyond flawed - he sounds like someone with Stockholm Syndrome. Defending this is nonsense - no one is making money from this, ergo, they're not being threatened. They're not losing money. Their IP is being celebrated here; it's being made relevant — something THEY THEMSELVES ARE FAILING TO DO currently. Christ; the only thing they've done to "celebrate" the 30th anniversary of the brand is to shut this down.

And telling people to go buy Metroid 2 on the eShop? Extra stupid. If Nintendo needs to see that people still like platformers like this, then all they have to do IS LOOK AROUND AT GAMES OTHER PEOPLE MAKE (for once in their damn existence). There are thousands of "Metroidvanias" out there - sh**, two just came out last month (the excellent Song of the Deep from Insomniac and Headlander by Double Fine). A ridiculous amount of money was thrown at Iga to make Bloodstained. It's a freakin' genre tag on Steam (http://store.steampowered.com/tag/en/Metroidvania/#p=0&tab=NewReleases). People already love these types of games. They like NEW ones too.

Don't tell people to go buy Nintendo's specific thing - if their logic is to hold the IP "hostage" until you buy more old, outdated GB games in 2016, then I guess I'll just come to terms with it being dead. Nintendo are simply being enormous bullies here, and the fact that their victim defends the behaviour is so distressing - fanboyism is disgusting.

@VanillaLake Ohoho nice zinger! Glad you could use my comment to be uncivil and rude. That kind of comment is what i'm talking about. I don't get the point honestly. Being disrespectful to other people doesn't make anyone's point more valid.

... Gotta say ... really enjoying it so far. Just found the 2nd lot of Metroids and got the Varia suit! Infinitley better than Metroid 2, which is pretty pants in all honesty. The monochrome GB display never lent much character to the samey backgrounds. This on the other hand - as varied and as power up heavy as any Metroid ive played.

The problem with this topic is, that most people who comment on copyright, fan projects ect. likely never made anything themselves that was used by someone else without their permission.
That is all really. People get upset over other people posting fanart without crediting the artist, but using assets etc. is fine, because it's a company or what? Bad corporations, poor consumers?

@RandomBlue I wasn't uncivil and rude, those are not words I used, I'm just trying to explain what happened here and what adjectives were used first (here and earlier this morning).

@TruthfulVoice "Christ; the only thing they've done to "celebrate" the 30th anniversary of the brand is to shut this down".

@VanillaLake And you did so rudely, last part of what you said was completely unneeded. And even if someone calls you ignorant or doesn't like your opinion, then who cares? You don't need to reply the same way. Like seriously, we are all (mostly) adults. No need to reply with name-calling or insulting the other person's intelligence.

"Probably mirroring his own complex."
Well i disagree i guess, was an obvious jab at someone and it was entirely unneeded.

@Rin-go That's exactly this situation in a nutshell. A strong sense of entitlement leads people to feel that if the entity getting ripped off is a wealthy individual or a large company, then they aren't entitled to the same level of respect that your average Joe Schmoe on deviant art receives.

@-DEMISE- oh don't be so cynical I buy plenty of games, it just so happened this particular one wasn't being charged for.

@RandomBlue I think you're wrong, mate. Perhaps if he didn't call everybody else ignorant with poor reasoning I wouldn't have that perception. This morning I barely replied to him on the other thread but this afternoon I had more time to explain why I think that's a poor way of getting attention. Guess you didn't get it right, but I have been more polite than he deserved and probably expected.

@RandomBlue I'm perfectly fine with people not agreeing with me, I just happened to reply to bad comments, most of them were not even addressed to me. You are overreacting to what is a mere explanation, I guess this is what happens when you haven't read the whole story, you quickly jumped to wrong conclusions (and even called me bad names) just because I replied to you.

@Kid_Sickarus No I believe you. But I don't for a second believe that most of the people downloading this game would just gladly accept their fate if they were required to pay Nintendo money for it. People would complain that they're being asked to pay money for an old game, because that's what always happens.

@-DEMISE- Good for them, I'm sure.

@fluggy

I've been playing it too. As a fan of Metroid II, I can agree this is infinitely the better game and amazing overall. My only complaint is that the bosses are a bit gimmicky.

@VanillaLake

The less said about Other M, the better I think. The fact our last two Metroid games were Metroid in name only kinda shows the state of the franchise. (Referring to Other M and Federation Force).

@-DEMISE-

Not really. Fans have been asking for a remake to Metroid II since Zero Mission. Speaking of which, was a remake that people were not only happy to pay money for, but were harping about for years to come to NA on VC. So your logic on that point is flawed and without merit. You clearly have not played this game, as it is far more than "an old game". Hell, AM2R added things not even in Zero Mission. Trying to claim people would not pay money for it kinda shows your blatant ignorance on this subject. Just look at Zero Mission, or any random remake on Kickstarter. People pay for remakes all the time and even get hyped for them. It's not a stretch to believe people would pay money for a remake when it happens literally all the time, and AM2R clearly is well made enough to deserve purchase. Hell, I'm playing Etrian Untold 1 and 2 right now, and those are remakes.

Just reading through your comments.
Called yourself not pretentious and immediately called him pretentious.
Called him a 5 yr old troll and compared him to kirk and then mentioning intelligence like that's going to matter. All it does is invoke a heated reply. Goes back to what i said in my last comment. Arguing just gets derailed into a circle of name calling while still trying to prove one's own point. Then a sheep which i don't really get the point of calling someone a fanboy. Got called a nindy fanboy not too long ago, but i'm just a fan of video games.
Wasn't trying to put anyone on blast, but without looking much more, it's clear it wasn't just one user.
So is this the whole story? Well for your argument anyways. I am sure demise isn't innocent and that other people were guilty of this. My comment was directed at everyone to chill out and not even bothering giving them a response to try to prove yourself. And don't act like your explanation was a mere explanation. Was clearly ill mannered towards demise.

Wow. This is still going one? I just love how passionate Nintendolife members are. (^_^ )
btw, I think it's really lame that Nintendo of America's big idea of Samus' 30th anniversary was to do absolutely nothing, take down a non-profit fan game, and "remind" everyone that we should buy Federation Force. There isn't even a Metroid sale in the eshop for crying out loud (and I am crying).

@Onion
(T_T ) I like Other M. It's the game that got me into Metroid. Since then I've bought on the 3ds and Wii U Metroid 1, 2, super, fusion, and the prime trilogy, both Samus and Zero-suit Samus amiibos and not to mention pre-ordering Samus Aran's figma that comes out this December. All thanks to Other M.

@Utena-mobile The thing I hated the most about Other M is the gameplay, you probably loved the cut-scenes, didn't you?

@Onion True, which reminds me of other questionable decisions of Nintendo like those made about recent Star Fox, Animal Crossing and Paper Mario installments, among others. And yeah, people love remakes when they are well done, and they can be better than more recent games. People will pay for them as long as they are good. Also, Nintendo is used to working with external developers so why they don't choose the right ones or perhaps give them the right ideas for a change?

@VanillaLake Even calling you bad names...?
Not called you any names mate, not you. Just your comment is rude. Your comment, and your attitude was disrespectful.
That's the only thing i can imagine, unless you can explain it.
From my standpoint, it just looks like you're trying to act defensive and act like you haven't done anything wrong.

Yes, Nintendo clearly was secretly in cahoots with the AM2R developer to have the game released on the 30th anniversary, all so that they could cancel it on that day and annoy the fans, right?

I can't pretend to understand the dev's motivations for releasing the game now, but impulse decisions just to meet some sort of ''anniversary'' rarely turn out well. It's why most of those come in the form of rereleasing old games.

Also, for anyone still paying attention to Smash conquests, the current one is ''Approaching the big 3-0'', including Metroid & Kid Icarus... and you think the former is getting no love?

@RandomBlue You are being rude and uncivil by repeatedly calling me that (like four times in a row now) JUST because I said that probably he calls everybody ignorant because that's what he thinks of himself in the end. You are the one that should chill out now, I'm starting to think your intentions are not really good. After all, the thread is peaceful at the moment, don't ruin it now by repeating how rude and uncivil I or whoever is.

@Utena-mobile

That's cool, I respect that it got you into the series, but for most fans it just wasn't really very Metroid. I'm not gonna knock someone for liking Other M, but most hardcore fans didn't like it and it really caused some controversy among the fanbase. Welcome to the fold either way.

@VanillaLake

Star Fox Zero has a few fans but yeah, it's generally seen as kind of a flop, Paper Mario took everything good about the series and threw it all away, etc.. For some of us, remakes and ports are all we have. Put Thousand Year Door on the eshop right now and money would be pouring in like syrup on pancakes. Remakes make money without a doubt. Nintendo themselves does tons of remakes, so why I see people arguing that AM2R is only being played because it's free is beyond me. It's well made and worthy of money. I'd pay for it right now if it were on the eshop for 20 dollars.

@VanillaLake
I actually loved both the gameplay AND the cutscenes. But tbh, I had some problems with her blood analyzing moments. I couldn't find the green spots because everything looked a little pixelly on an hd tv.

@Onion
Thank you. (^_^ ) I think I got it easier than most. A lot of metroid fans have had to wait and be disappointed for years. But as a new fan, everything feels new, and I don't have to wait years to try out another metroid game. Although, I am disappointed about how she never seems to be Nintendo's first pick for anything of late. Poor Samus.
(T_T )

@BaffleBlend That's probably because you've never actually created anything. These indy devs either need to develop original content or get out of the business.

And you babies need to stop crying about a business exercising their right to protect their IP. You'd do the exact same thing if you were in their shoes.

@Onion People "calling for" a particular remake doesn't change the very visible and obvious fact that people also complain about having to pay money any time Nintendo releases a remake, or a game on Virtual Console, or anything along those lines. "Why should I pay money for a game I can get for free??" is always their mantra. Demand doesn't equate to quietly accepting the price of an old game, no matter how well it's been remade.

@TruthfulVoice A simple knowledge of copyright law would let you know that this is for any future occurrences in which somebody may use the Metroid IP to actually make money. If Nintendo doesn't defend the IP now, it becomes increasingly harder to do it in the future.

@VanillaLake To be honest, you don't look like someone who can be criticized well. I'm not referencing any of the past posts. Just the one's that i have had with you. Saying probably mirroring his own complex, you can't honestly believe that it's not rude to another user. If you're making remarks about another user, you are being rude. That is not a personal attack. That is not name calling. I am respectfully asking you to use your words better.

And im glad to see that chat has calmed down. You did nothing, but inflame it and make it worse along with demise. "Probably mirroring his own complex." Chat had finally started to settle down and after my comment. Why did you try to invoke an action from him and continue arguing? I'm starting to think your intentions are not really good. I defended a user, then myself because you can't take criticism. You got heated and reacted to me and demise and tried to act like i'm making chat a worse place. I wonder who is guilty.

@Onion I'd disagree that Other M was not very Metroid, it's about as Metroid as it gets. The problem is, it was not a good Metroid. For me, the main problem was the switch from sidescrolling to first-person was very cumbersome, specially during boss fights, with limited time before the boss would hide it's weak spot. This ruined the controls for me. Other than that, the environments were not very interesting to navigate or memorable, sort of like Fusion.

One thing about Other M that people don't consider, is that it meant Nintendo let another developer create games with their IP when Nintendo itself did not have the (development) resources for it. This practice has had mixed results, giving us the awesome F-Zero GX from Sega, but the so-so Star Fox from Namco and Other M itself from team Ninja. I kinda wish Nintendo would do this more instead of not releasing any game when they can't do it themselves, but seeing the results I can't say I blame them from not doing it.

@RandomBlue Don't worry about it. There's no winning with someone when they're on a moral crusade.

Thoroughly unsurprising that Nintendo went after this; it's an unlicensed remake on a non-Nintendo platform. When has Nintendo ever let their IPs venture outside their own hardware platforms?

So under the circumstances I think waiting until after release with the C&D was the best they could do without compromising their own IP.

In any case, glad I got it. It's an excellent remake!

Buzzwords to look out for in Metroid threads:

-Entitlement
-Babies
-Spoiled
-Rip-off
-Over-zealous
-Sega
-"Support Federation Force"
-"Other M was a good game"

@RandomBlue I don't know you, I think we have never argued. By the way, why are you using my arguments like they are yours? Anyway, believe me when I say I'm fine with people disagreeing with me and check my comments history if you are that concerned about me, but please stop with the false accusations already, I'm getting tired. Of course, I think it's unfair what you just did and you have confirmed that your intentions were not good by manipulating my comments once again and repeating the parts that make poor @-DEMISE look like a victim. Poor guy, he was only insulting people, I should have been more understanding. You are right.

Nintendo has let other developers create games for their franchises for a very long time. In fact, the Metroid Prime series was developed by someone else. It thought the Team Ninja Metroid, Other M, was pretty decent. I have seen play-throughs where players have defeated Ridley taking no damage, so the controls are not broken. It is just a challenge. The story...ho hum. The atmosphere...not as interesting as other Metroid games. But playing the game was fun and had some interesting tactics.

For those who claim he did not make any money so it should be celebrated and not taken down...you obviously don't understand legal precedence and what can be done if they DON'T shut down something like that. If they don't protect the rights to their IPs, free or not, they will lose their rights to those IPs. The day they don't shut down these kinds of things is the day they are going under for good. I do not look forward to that day.

@-DEMISE-

I'll just take your word for that, as I've never personally seen this happening very often. Remakes sell like hotcakes, as I said. FF7 was being begged for a remake for years. I could go on all day with these examples. As I said, if people were complaining that badly, why were so many also begging for Zero Mission? Maybe this is a recent thing but I'm not seeing what you claim is 'visibly obvious'. You might be right, I wouldn't be surprised, but I'd be kinda disappointed. I mean, I never heard anyone really complain about Majora's Mask 3D for example. Maybe you've heard people complaining about bad remakes? Shrug

@nab1

Nah. The exploration wasn't really there and the game was heavily focused on action and the game barely acknowledged anything related to the lore outside of what we already knew from Fusion. Hardly any mention of the Chozo for example, no uncovering new weapons, etc.. You're right about the comparison to Fusion though, I'd call it Fusion 3D or something, it just didn't have the spirit of Metroid for a lot of people. We can agree to disagree though on the whole "it's not Metroid" thing. I just never felt like I was playing Metroid. That Ridley fight was nice though!

@Utena-mobile Oh, I was hoping that you only liked the cutscenes but if it was your first Metroid game then I can forgive you (just joking). Well, as Onion, I also respect your opinion, but it's true what he says, most fans were disappointed. I particularly disliked the 2D-3D mix which I think was a gimmick and the gameplay was quite rough because of that.

@Onion Your words make me want to play AM2R even more! I probably will. And yeah, I couldn't agree more. Paper Mario The Thousand-year Door is my favourite Paper Mario game, and not only because recent installments have been disappointing, I loved it since the beginning, one of the great GameCube games.

@VanillaLake so... you're not going to forgive me?
(o_O )

I like it a lot (and it's still my favorite Metroid game) but I can see why people don't like it. And I also hated the 2d to 3d wiimote feature. But mostly because I think motion controls pretty much guarantee a game won't get a remaster in some future Nintendo console unless motion controls stick around forever (and I doubt that).

Like, good luck ever seeing an NX port of Skyward Sword, the poster child of motion controls. (-. - )

@VanillaLake Read above, I said he wasn't innocent. I am repeating your comments because you act like you weren't included and I've already explained how. That included reading your comments. You were the one who made them, and insulted him as well. You're guilty, he's guilty, guess ill look at everyone else in this thread to see who is guilty.
Nice job playing victim at the end of that message. It's so unfair that i read your rude messages in one post for the chat to see. It's so unfair what demise did to me. And nice job not answering how you tried to get heated in a finally peaceful chat.
Edit: The whole reason i see you're arguing with me is that I said your comment was rude and you didn't like it. And by arguing with you and calling your comment unneeded i'm somehow defending what he's said to you.

@majorgamer That some gamers were able to get around Other M controls does not make the controls good, it just means those gamers are good and/or patient enough to master them. For me, the control frustrated me enough that I haven't cared to beat Other M yet, and I've beaten all post-Super Metroid games except Hunters (for the same reason).

@Onion I remember when both Fusion and Prime came out. Prime was supposed to be the departure from the norm being 3D and all, and yet Prime ended up feeling more Metroid like than Fusion ever was. Never liked the whole "Samus, go here/there" from Fusion. Thankfully out of the two I chose Prime at launch

@RandomBlue You're getting dragged into the same thing you originally complained about. Just saying.

@RandomBlue Oh my god, you're a real flamer, aren't you?

I have noticed that alot of people are playing the Nintendo is selling old games at inflated prices and should sell NES and Game Boy games for a dollar!

If you think the Wii U and 3DS shops are a rip off for old retro games, then I have something to show you.

Namely, how much these games would cost used if you bought them offline. Keep in mind, these games are used carts with no manuals or boxes.

First off, let's look at Lukie Games
www.lukiegames.com

Super Mario Bros

Super Mario Bros 2: $23.97

Super Mario Bros 3: $24.97

The Legend of Zelda: $37.97

Zelda II: $23.47

Donkey Kong: $65.47

Donkey Kong Jr.: $32.47

Donkey Kong 3: $21.47

Castlevania: $34.97

Castlevania II:$18.97

Castlevania III: $18.97

I could go on, but I think I proved my point. Although, I do want to highlight one more thing and that's the Mega Man games.

Now these games have been released across numerous platforms over the years, and so, the cart prices for the NES versions should have dropped, right?

Well, let's take a look.....

Mega Man 1: $105.34

Mega Man 2: $42.97

Mega Man 3: $23.64

Mega Man 4: $42.64

Mega Man 5: $110.97

Mega Man 6: $63.97

I want to remind everyone that these prices are for the carts alone. No manual or box are included.

And before someone claims I found a site that overprices games, DKoldies sells the games for about the same prices.

One other thing, those games I listed were on sale. The normal prices are much higher.

Also, for people who keep up the argument that its cheaper to buy an NES and the games then virtual console versions! Even if you somehow ignore the prices I listed, an NES by itself(with nothing but a controller) costs $84.99

So, let's just stop with the Nintendo overcharges for old virtual console games nonsense.

Yeah, you may think Donkey Kong for the NES is overpriced on the eshop at 5 bucks, but its a hell of a deal compared to paying over 50 bucks for the same game on an NES cart.

@MarcelRguez Pretty much. Guess i'm a hypocrite. Not that it makes @VanillaLake more right.

@VanillaLake 10/10 response

@SLIGEACH_EIRE
"Easily be played by other means"

Oh, so because you can pirate I guess that means NES games should be given away for a dollar each then, right? So because you can steal as an alternative, they should just lower the price enough to entice you not to steal. I see.

30 years old, hundred years old... it doesn't matter. $5 is about as cheap as it gets. You can barely buy a cheeseburger for $5 nowadays, yet you complain that it's too much to pay for a great game?

And $20 for Wii is not that expensive. Even PS2 games on PS4 are selling for $20 digitally, and they are a full generation behind Wii games.

You cannot find most of those games for 10 bucks in stores. No. In fact most are $30-50, with the exception of Nintendo Selects which are $20. You cannot compare used games with full MSRP pricing. Even used copies of Metroid Prime Trilogy and Xenoblade can exceed $50

It's not anyone's "right" to download something based on a registered IP. In fact, it is illegal. If Nintendo were really awful, they would sue him for what he did, but they won't. They did not ask him to create this game, nor did he go into it with the expectation that Nintendo was not going to shut it down. He did it to prove something to himself, and maybe to other game companies. And, assuming everyone commenting here is a Nintendo fan, it's a shame that instead it makes Nintendo look bad for doing what they should do and what he expected them to do.

If you do not support Nintendo in these matters, then soon they will go away. No more Nintendo. I guess if that's what has to happen, then so be it. Then we can have fans do whatever the hell they want with Nintendo's creations of the past.

@Caryslan the problem is your comparing against real cartridges, and no matter where you stand on piracy, the VC main competitor will always be illegal ROMs for everyone except the most devoted retro gamers. And this is coming from someone who really dislikes piracy. The only ROMs I download are those that aren't and probably will never be released on the VC, like Disney's Alladin. I will not go through the hurdles to connect a real SNES to my TV just to play those games, if there's an easier way to get the ROMs in the same Wii/Wii U console I own. The only console I do connect is the N64, because the games I want to play aren't properly emulated and not available in the VC, like Bomberman 64.

@Syrek24 I do know you and you have a history of flaming so I'm not surprised. I won't play your games now, we both know what you have done. The hypocrite and rude is you, I'm pretty honest and respectful.

@VanillaLake

If Nintendo ported, remade, etc TTYD, pretty sure it'd sell Wii U's. A good remake can be a powerful thing. Demise might be right that people complain, but I just don't really see it. A good remake will sell itself. Just look at Resident Evil. That game practically sold Gamecubes, and now people are buying it again on PS4. The only thing that can kill a good remake is the platform it's on. Looking at you Maverick Hunter X and Powered Up. AM2R would easily sell on 3DS. People are eager for FF12HD right now too, so clearly people like remakes. I wouldn't be surprised if people also hate on them though.

@RandomBlue

It might be best to let that whole thing go, nothing good is coming from it.

@Caryslan

While I agree 100% with your point, those prices are pretty extreme for used carts. As a collector, I know what the value is in and those price ranges are way, way off. Sounds more like lukiegames is ripping people off.

A loose cart of Mega Man should not go for 100+ dollars, it's a 50 to 60 dollar cart. Mario 3 is again, a 10-15 dollar cart. Lukiegames is just ripping people off. I'm looking at a Mario 3 cart right now for 5 dollars on ebay, seen here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Mario-Bros-3-Nintendo-Entertainment-System-1990-tested-/142071599354?hash=item21142090fa:g:nHsAAOSwdzVXnkoi. In fact, a lot of the games you listed are on amazon and ebay for significantly less than you're listing. Trust me, I'm actually someone who buys and collects these things, so I know what the value is. Just because a site is asking that price doesn't mean that's the right value. Nearly all of the games you just listed can be bought online or a flea market for less. Shop smart, people.

@VanillaLake Remember, he "left the site for good" a while ago. Wonder why he might be back?

Oh...and charging for a remake. Let's see. If you have purchased the console and game to begin with, then play that console and game. It takes work to port these games, and no one is forcing you to buy them. Maybe they could charge 99 cents for the original Mario. Then everyone with their new console will have it on their machines. Or...they can charge what it's actually worth and most people will have it on their consoles. If they charged too much, then people would not buy it. It's a pretty basic business model that you have to follow or you will not survive, especially with how tumultuous things are for Nintendo right now. They need to make smart business decisions right now, and it is NOT smart to let anyone grab their IP and do what they want with it, free or not. That is downright silly actually.

What's all the fuss about? He remade a game without the ip owners approval. It was free but also something that would draw attention to his talents better than random crappy character in a metroid rip off.

If you remake a song and release it without the owners permission for free to get attention for your band it's clear you crossed a line, what's different in this case?

@MarcelRguez Yeah, also, there is evidence that some of these apologists use multi-account to support "each other" (so much evidence that one of them was banned). Also, they say they want peace but they are just waiting the right moment to attack or flame the thread.

@Onion Spend enough time parsing through comments on gaming sites, specifically articles about Nintendo remakes and Virtual Console games, and I promise you with 100% confidence that you will find more than a few people complaining that they have to pay for whichever game a given article happens to be about, or saying things like "or I could just download an emulator and play it for free, derp." You're right about how well they sell though. They usually sell incredibly well, which is why I have so much derision for the people that complain about Nintendo charging so much for their older games, no matter how high or low the price actually is, because their griping is incongruous with the actual market reception.

I wonder, IIRC there's laws that allow the use of copyrighted IPs, IF it is a satire or parody, because that makes it fair use. There's a precedent for this, google "Dumb Starbucks" for more, though I don't know if it was ever shut down.

So, how about releasing AM2R with chickens or something instead of Metroids? I'm only half-joking, btw, I do wonder if they'd be in the clear with such a stunt.

@Caryslan Very good point. I've made this argument countless times myself, but apparently it's too much common sense for certain people to get their heads around.

@Nab1 I understand what you are saying. However, here is what I am saying: You certainly don't like the controls. That is great. That does not make them bad. The fact that they can be mastered means that in some way, they work. They are not broken, or you would not be able to get around them at all. So instead, they are not bad, you just don't like the controls. Hope that makes sense

@nab1
Nintendo's VC competitor is other console's VC. There are a lot of people willing to pay money for games. Probably more than are willing to pirate them.

@Caryslan
I don't know that I would say Nintendo's VC prices are unreasonable, but they are on the higher end of the spectrum.

gameboy: 3.99
gameboy color: 5.99
gameboy advance: 7.99

nes: 4.99
snes: 7.99
n64: 9.99

ds: 9.99
wii: 19.99

compared to Sony's
ps1: 5.99 (with only a few 9.99)
ps2: 9.99
ps2 on ps4: 9.99 to 14.99 (with trophy support and upscaled to 1080p).

some of Nintendo's prices are ok, but some, like their wii games, are not.

@Utena-mobile LOL @ so you don't forgive me?

@nab1 "That some gamers were able to get around Other M controls does not make the controls good, it just means those gamers are good and/or patient enough to master them".

True, and it applies to Star Fox Zero as well. Some people even play blindfolded, does it make visuals optional?

@Nab1 Chicken Metroid would be awesome!! And seriously, that may be protected under parody. He just could not use the same level design

@majorgamer Throwing another point of view into the convo, some people that claim that Other M's dodge is broken mean it in the sense that is incredibly overpowered. The number of i-frames that action has is unreal, especially when you compare it to similar moves in the Ninja Gaiden series.

I'd also argue that moving in a 3D environment with an octo-directional gamepad (meaning, no analog movement) is unacceptable by 2010 standards.

@-DEMISE-

That might be why I tend to avoid comments sections, then. I don't know why anyone would complain, a remake introduces new fans to a game while giving older fans something new to enjoy (since most remakes also add new features). Remakes are also usually cheaper than buying the original versions. This is why I agree with Caryslan but not the actual prices he listed.

@Caryslan remember that NES roms are digital downloads that are a few megabytes big and the games are 30 years old! It's not the same as original physical cartridges that have additional value. Animal Crossing included over 10 free NES games, Sega's collections include over 30... Nintendo's pricing is archaic compared to any other digital store, but you and the other guy above are comparing it to collector's cartridges and cinema tickets.

@MarcelRguez While you make a good point, one that is backed up by how many people complain about the controls, it does not make them "bad". The dodge is powerful, so is Samus. I thought it was a lot of fun dodging and shooting. Again, all things considered, it was one of my least favorite Metroid games, but I hold all Metroid games in such high regard, that I still compliment it for being a good game with a unique strategy because of the controls. Many people may not like them, and I totally respect that and would admit that because of that, they may have done better with a different control scheme, but I thought they were very clever and a lot of fun with the motion controls. As for D-Pad movement in 3D space...it was serviceable for a 2.5 perspective game. I thought it was clever considering they had only one joystick to use. That is just my opinion. I still would not call the controls bad or broken.

@Onion, yes, I'm pretty sure that AM2R would sell well on the eShop, so would do GameCube games on Wii U. Funny thing Wii U can natively run (digital) GameCube games, and we already have the GameCube Adapter for Wii U. Nintendo releases Wii downloads but not GameCube downloads for whoever wants them... Weird.

Yes, I think those prices that @Caryslan mentioned are inflated but I didn't want to check one by one.

@Utena-mobile
You're right- Sony is charging $15 for PS2 games (thought it was $20). But compared to Wii they are a generation older, which would be akin to GameCube for $15. But trophy support isn't saying much more than Nintendo games getting gamepad support.

Nintendo
NES $5
GBA $8
SNES $8
N64 $10
DS $10
Wii $20

Sony
PSone $5-10
PSP $20
PS2 $15

So really, the PSone are about on par with the 64, sometimes cheaper, the PSP are TWICE the cost of DS, and PS2 for $15 lines up about on par with Wii for $20.

So ya, it's tit for tat really. Anyone claiming that Nintendo prices are outrageous when Sony charges twice as much for 7th gen handheld games and the equivalent amount for their 5th and 6th gen games just isn't grounded in fact.

So maybe Nintendo's prices are outrageous but if that is the case then Sony's are just as outrageous. Anyone can look and see that that's a tit-for-tat pricing system.

@VanillaLake And here YOU are making the argument that the age and file size of a game should render its price as as close to zero as possible. And also, here YOU are saying you think collector's value or lack thereof has any bearing on the very simple concept that $5 for a digital copy of a game is significantly cheaper than buying a cartridge of the game, which is true no matter how you want to spin it.

Hey, this game is fun, let's keep playing!

@nab1 Yeah, Nintendo has done this a lot of times. Not only the games that you mentioned but Mario Mix Dancing Stage (which is basically Dance Dance Revolution), Donkey Konga series, infamous Star Fox Zero...

Great results: Rare's Star Fox Adventures (if you consider it an adventure game), Retro's Metroid Prime series. And to anybody still thinking I don't approve any modern game: Next Level Games' Luigi's Mansion 2 is lovely (although Federation Force might not be so good).

@JaxonH Hey get out of here with your Nintendo Defense Force propaganda! What do you think this is, some kind of site for Nintendo fans or something??

....oh wait.

@-DEMISE- Another flaming attempt of yours. The difference between you and @JaxonH is that he doesn't insult people so everybody respects him.

@majorgamer Samus is powerful, so is Hayabusa. I see your point, but I can't accept it. No action game series thows away balance like that, unless the point of the game is making the playable character a powerhouse.

And as you say, I consider the controls "serviceable". By my definition, that's not good. Just good enough for me to put up with them. They only had one joystick, and they didn't even use it. I don't see any justification for that, even Team Ninja tried to talk sense into Sakamoto.

Of course, I'm glad you were able to enjoy it. I wasn't so fond of it, but I did have fun with it.

@JaxonH
psp is on a case by case basis. They run anywhere from 5 dollars to 30, but the 30 dollar ones are for new psp games, which, to this day, are still being released.

but the average for a psp game is just under 10 dollars. I know because I've bought quite a few. Not to mention that unlike Nintendo, Sony has no problem putting their own games on sale. I've seen some run for as low as 1 dollar.

ps2 on ps4 are 9.99- 14.99. But you also have to take into account that they have trophy support and most importantly, have been upscaled. Wii games are not quite as old as ps2 games, true, but are just bare bone ports with no upscaling. try playing a ps2 on ps4 game and a wii game and tell me which one looks better?

@MarcleRguez Thanks! I was pleasantly surprised because the reviews and reaction was so bad. But when I got clearance to use missile's and got my first power-up, it felt good. Just not desolate and lonely as the others. But, it was a new game, and they did not completely follow all the tropes of the past games. She was powerful right from the beginning! Just was not authorized to use that power (kinda lame haha). But fighting Ridley, and the final metroid fight was a blast (pun intended)! Here is to hoping we get another Metroid Prime type game in our lifetime

@MarcelRguez Other M controls might have been better if they had used a Super Mario Galaxy like approach where you have an analog stick and a pointer always on the screen, so you're not required to switch how you hold the control. Just have the perspective switch mapped to a button. Never understood why they had to get all clever and minimalistic with the controls.

@VanillaLake You can't say a single thing without somehow offending someone now can you lol

@RandomBlue Now you have proved that @-DEMISE- and you are just the same and won't stop the trolling and flaming. You are the ones quoting me and being disrespectful, I just reply.

@MarcelRguez
There was 14 years between 6 Golden Coins and NSMB

@Nab1 "Never understood why they had to get all clever and minimalistic with the controls."

Hahaha! I love how you phrased that! Awesome

@majorgamer I'm happy that you enjoyed the game, but I agree with @MarcelRguez and @nab1 about Metroid Other M. As I said earlier, the gameplay is quite rough because of the 2D-3D gimmick. You could feel that it was not smooth controlling Samus with the D-pad in a 3D environment, and also it was clunky to hold the controller in a different way every time you wanted to aim, plus sometimes the game gets into first person view when it misreads the Wii Remote position. It couldn't have worse controls.

@majorgamer Oh, it's a very polished title, I'll give it that. It's just, there are some baffling design choices through which the stubbornness of the director show up, and I often found myself scratching my head thinking "why didn't he go for the obviously superior choice here?".

I'm leaving the narrative/cutscenes out because, well, that's a whole other can of worms.

@nab1 Yeah, that's exactly what I meant. And if I recall correctly, the choice of playing the game just with the WiiMote had something to do with nostalgia for the NES controls. Maybe Sakamoto wanted to bring that familiarity back to go "back to basics" and revisit the origins so he could redefine Metroid (and Samus). Hell if I can follow his train of thought.

@VanillaLake I thought it was silly that Demise was trying to flame you so i was making fun of him. If people try it, i like to shame them for flaming. Looks like it was taken the opposite way. Anyways my apologies, my intent was not to put to offend you or anything. I saw an insult and i had reacted. But Onion was right. Clearly i overreacted and doesn't need further explanation. I've done what i said not to and derailed the chat enough.

@-DEMISE- @VanillaLake
Unfortunately I used to but those days are behind me. I'll do my best to keep it that way.

I Think this is a situation where you could ask 10 different people and get 10 different opinions, some think it's too expensive and some think it's not, and some think it's average.

All we can do is relative comparisons and make of it what you will.

Sony vs Nintendo Pricing on Current Platforms (not past pricing on previous consoles)

5th Gen Consoles
1 Sony PS1 ($5) vs. Nintendo 64 ($10)
7th Gen Handhelds
2 Sony PSP ($20) vs. Nintendo DS ($10)
6th Gen vs 7th Gen Consoles
3 Sony PS2 ($15) vs. Nintendo Wii ($20)

1 Nintendo costs twice as much 1 point Nintendo
2 Sony costs twice as much 1 point Sony
3 Same cost- $15 for 6th gen vs $20 for 7th gen tie

So who's right and who's wrong? I don't think anyone is. But objectively I do think it's fair to say that their pricing is relatively comparative to Sony's.

@VanillaLake
Other M, I love that game to death but the controls switching to 1st person sucked. Nunchuk would have solved that issue.

@RandomBlue Yes, you haven't helped at all. Apologies accepted, all I did was try to explain what was happening here but you can see it on your own, and that would probably be better.

@JaxonH
I'm not trying to have a contest with you. (o_O ) but ok.

@VanillaLake My opinion is the controls could have been a lot worse. Clearly they could have been better, based on what everyone is saying here! I am obviously in the minority here defending the un-defensable haha!

I thought it was a cool take on the whole thing and had it's own unique way of playing that was not broken, just a challenge that not everyone could get into. But I do respect what you, @Nab1, and @MarcelRguez are saying. I just had a different experience with the game, and glad I did!

@Utena-mobile
I wasn't either.

Was just trying to have a conversation.

@JaxonH I didn't know your evil side. Anyway, I'm one of the guys that are saying that Nintendo's pricing is expensive because I agree with @Utena-mobile, I see better deals elsewhere (in Europe, at least). To be fair, you have to add to your comparison that Nintendo had almost-cross-buy downloads when Wii U launched but Nintendo went back to the 20th century and removed that so now you have to pay twice while you only pay once on PlayStation4-Vita and Xbox-Windows.

@VanillaLake I've looked through most of them now. Looks like hasn't been too fun on your end. The reason i acted the way i did was i saw ur comment and rooted it as one of the main problems. Don't want people to think i'm trolling them or anything. But as someone whose not a metroid fan, its fun lurking, reading through comments and people's opinions on them. Sorry again though

@JaxonH sorry. I guess reading all of the comments here has sort of put me on edge and I became a bit defensive. (^_^ ' )

@VanillaLake I get what you are saying about the pricing. I would just argue that Nintendo games have held their value better through the years, and therefore command a higher price. Nintendo may eventually price their games out, but they command what people will pay for them, and they certainly hold their value incredibly well. Fortunately, I jumped on the "updated" version on the Wii U for a discount offer they had. That kept it better for me to have the convenience of having the game on my Wii U and using the gamepad to utilize off-tv play. Made it worth it...again holding its value.

But your opinion is just as valid is mine!

@JaxonH Would you ever learn how to read. I never said I pirate games, I don't and think it's wrong for the most part. I was trying to explain pirates rationale. And how many times do I have to explain that I'm talking about Europe? See this sign, €, it's called the Euro. It's our currency in Europe. Wii games for the most part are dirt cheap here, with some exceptions.

@RandomBlue Exactly, I was not making fun of anybody, just replying to false accusations. This all started because I was defending other people's right to have their own opinions without being harassed and called ignorant. I'm always fighting for people being able to be sincere and critical if they want to as long as they are respectful, of course. I'm not rude nor uncivil, I just like stopping unfair attitudes, honestly.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE
"Would you ever learn how to read"

I can read just fine. Unfortunately my name is not Ms. Cleo and I don't have a crystal ball and I can't tell what your intentions were when you wrote something. You're making an argument for why the prices should be low. In that argument you mentioned that one of the reasons is because they can be stolen. So whether you're doing it personally or not you're making an argument on behalf of those that do. And I am rebutting your argument, plain and simple. I don't care who you're talking about.

And I don't care what region youre in. It makes no difference. $ € £ it's all the same. The point stands regardless of the symbol of your personal currency.

https://www.amazon.de/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Wii+games

I'm browsing the Wii games and I'm not seeing all these VC games for €10 that you claim is so common. See that? That's the € symbol.

New Super Mario Bros Wii €29,99
DKC Returns €22,99
Mario Kart Wii €26,99

Hmmm... still not seeing it.

@Utena-mobile
No worries.
And I just saw your other post, must have missed it before. All I know is from what I see when I buy games and I went on a splurge and got MH Freedom Unite, Persona, Persona 2, Persona 3, MGS PeaceWalker and one other (can't remember) and they were $20 all the way up.

But to get to your other point, about a month later I saw aaaaaalll those games I just bought... on sale lol. Oh I was pissed. That was probably the 47th time I swore to myself I would never buy a game on a Sony platform again unless it's on sale. And of course, still to this day I swear that almost every other week when I buy more games and see them on sale.

So yeah that's a good point. Nintendo is definitely not in the ballpark when it comes to sales.

@VanillaLake
True, true.

The thing is Sony gets around that by not releasing any of the same VC games on PS4 and Vita so as to avoid having to provide crossbuy. So they both kind of backed out in that respect.

@majorgamer Yes, it could have worse controls... Star Fox Zero's controls. Yes, your opinion is as valid as mine, but you seem to deal with controls better than most people, which is good for you. As for the Virtual Console, it started so good this generation with those 20 cents offers and pay a small fee to get the Wii U version, but I don't know why it all went backwards and now you pay different prices on Wii U and 3DS and there is no cross-buy.

@JaxonH lol. I'm sorry. that sucks. I always wait for sales (unless it's a game I really really want to play), because, well, they're digital. It's not like they're going to run out of inventory for a digital game.
(^_^ )

Unless your name is Marvel Vs. Capcom 2. missed my chance with that one. (T_T )

@VanillaLake There are a couple of issues that Nintendo is working through that is causing the pricing to be what it is. First, there is the demand that they have these games on these consoles, but with the changes they are going through to prepare for the NX, they are in no hurry to expand these audiences. No facts here, but I do feel that they have no real interest in mass selling these games and that most people will buy them for one or the other, if at all. They are really preparing for their next big thing...whether that happens or not. And with that, they adjusted their pricing to deflect some of the people who just buy everything to have it everywhere.

I am a super Nintendo fanboy, and I am priced out of some of the "cross-buy" potentials. But I have them all on the original NES, or the SNES, or the Gamecube, or the Wii, or the Wii U, or the DS...I have the means to play all of these right now.

And yes...I have all of those systems hooked up and ready to play. It's a cool rig, but there are so many better ones out there, I am embarrassed to share hahaha!

@JaxonH I never see you criticise Sony on PushSquare like I do. I guess everybody fears Sammy... LOL

@majorgamer It's true that Nintendo's game price hold better, but it's arguable whether they could sell more by pricing them lower, or at least having more and better sales on first party software.

Case in point: When the digital version of Mario galaxy 2 came out, I bought it even though I already had it physical because it was just $10 in the first week, just so I didn't have to put the disc in to play it. I would NOT done that at $20. MPT at $10 was a freaking steal, specially for those of us who were hunting for the physical version at decent-human prices. Had they continued that "first week half price" thing going, I'd have bought many more Wii digital games.

@VanillaLake lol. I know I do.
But I stay on pushsquare because I like Shogunrok a lot. So much so, that I changed my avatar to Lt. Noin.

But senpai hasn't noticed me yet. (T_T )

@majorgamer One old console I hook up sometimes is my European RGB Nintendo 64 with a RGB cable. I'm also a Super NES (and Nintendo 64 and GameCube) fan.

@Nab1 I think that they did that because they were pleased with the sales to that point. Otherwise they would have kept the sale going. No facts to back this up, just the way business works in general and I operate on the assumption that Nintendo is pretty good at basic economics and what will make them as successful as they can be while still allowing them to uphold their mission statement of continuing to innovate and bring joy to people.

@JaxonH "And I don't care what region youre in. It makes no difference. $ € £ it's all the same."

~Shakes head~ No the currencies are not all the same. And some games are more valuable in one region than they are in others because of their limited availability. Like how I mentioned Other M earlier, Argos can't give the game away for under €5 new and sealed. There seems to be a bottomless supply of stock of that game all these years later. Yet Nintendo have the cheek to ask for €20 for a digital copy that has many disadvantages. Also, Nintendo don't know the meaning of the word "sale".

@VanillaLake That is awesome. The N64 is still one of the best systems. I was just playing Ocarina of Time on it the other day...boy are those graphics blurry now!!

Boy I hope the NX is what I think it is...just trying not to think about it too much!!

Already have Metroid II on 3DS. Having finished it maybe a year ago, I'd rather not touch this remake for a while anyway. Comparisons to Fusion and Zero Mission have reminded me that those exist, so I'd rather play those before AM2R even. Yay free advertising?

The comments here have gone way off topic!

I understand Nintendo's position. Our best chance of getting more Metroid is to support the franchise wherever we can. That's why I'll get Federation Force on release, despite not looking the look or premise.

@nab1 Same here, I believe lower prices means more sales and more money for Nintendo eventually. I re-bought some Wii games for €10, but any for €20.

@majorgamer Yep, you can try to get a French Nintendo 64 if you are really into Nintendo 64. I got mine on eBay. The first French Nintendo 64 model is RGB-ready, so some people hard-mods it to be RGB, then you connect a GameCube (or clone) RGB cable and you get a RGB signal which looks good on a HD screen. Yes, I'm more Nintendo fan than some people think.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE
Shakes head
I understand the prices are not going to be exactly identical, but generally speaking you will not find most Wii games for $10 no matter what region you're in.

And Other M is cheap here too. $5-10. But that game is one of the exceptions, not the rule. In fact I'm not even sure if it's sold on the virtual console.

https://www.amazon.de/s/ref=sr_nr_n_1?fst=as%3Aoff&rh=n%3A1478843031%2Ck%3AWii+games&keywords=Wii+games&ie=UTF8&qid=1470955114&rnid=1703609031

Like I said, I'm just not seeing it.

@VanillaLake
Well, I'm not really one to criticize anyone, be it Nintendo or Sony.

I just bring it up from time to time to try to share some perspective. Honestly, like for example, the prices of Nintendo's VC don't bother me one bit, and even the $20 PSP games don't really bother me at all. I don't know.

Sometimes I just see a lot of criticism aimed at one particular company when another company is doing something very similar, so I might bring something up just to say well, if you're criticizing them, then ya know, rightfully the other should be criticized too.

When everyone was complaining about the Neo and mid generation upgrades, I used the New 3DS to explain to people that no one had a problem when Nintendo did it and they shouldn't have a problem with Sony doing it either. On the other hand if I saw somebody screaming for joy after that very same person had criticized the New 3DS, I might be tempted to draw some parallels to see why it's OK for one company but not another.

Anyways, I have a question, seeing as you are one of the more vocal gamers for crossbuy. If NX is truly hybrid, that would essentially solve all crossbuy issues and even cross console issues. Buy once, get both. What are your thoughts on that. Is that a feature that excites you? I mean, technically it's not the same but it accomplishes the same thing.

@VanillaLake Stop. My heart is breaking.

@-DEMISE- You are in love with me, aren't you? You hate me but you can't stop reading me and sending me messages. Your heart is broken indeed.

@VanillaLake Weird. If I'M just replying to YOU, and YOU'RE just replying to ME, how do we know who started it, and where does it even end?!?!

tear

shipping @-DEMISE- and @VanillaLake
(^_^ )

LOL

@-DEMISE- Because you always send me messages when I have already forgotten you, and my messages are just replies to yours. I'm not stalking you like you do.

@VanillaLake I don't hate you. I know nothing about you. You seem like a decent enough person. I just don't agree with your position. Also, you keep replying to me, and I HATE not getting the last word. Hate. It.

The approach to "show support for 2D Metroid games" hasn't really worked for the last 12 years.
And i cant side with Nintendo on this one, no matter how you twist and turn it.

Companies like Capcom, who have a clear "As long as it isn's commercial" policy who paired up with a fangame team and promoted them (and the scene in general) or Sega, who outright hired fangame makers to help them out in porting games, or John Romero, who promoted the fan conversion Brutal Doom, which influenced the most recent iteration of the series all show, that companies can benefit from at least tolerating non-commercial fan projects.

Nintendo, with their draconic and archaic views, only achieves bad PR with their practices.
They alienate their fanbase wherever they can.

They strike against YouTube, archives (NintendoPower), fangames, movies...

And nothing comes from it. They only lose free PR.
For me, their censorship antics, their draconic strikes against their community and the general direction they are heading in with their games as a whole makes it really hard for me to support them.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE "See this sign, €, it's called the Euro. It's our currency in Europe."

Oh weird. All this time I thought that was an ear, and I'm all like, why would you trade your ears for a game?? lolz

ah, I'm fangirling so hard here.
(^_^ )

@shaneoh You can't compare Metroid to Mario.
Other than that, I'd argue that the remakes of SMB2 and 3 on the GBA do mitigate the wait somewhat. They are as much of a remake as OoT3D and the like are, at least.

@Utena-mobile I can't decipher your message #318. What do you mean?

Truth is, I see some people criticising Sony only on Nintendo Life and the same people criticising Nintendo only on PushSquare, like I mean, they aren't being themselves on both sites. It annoys me to be the only one being myself on both sites. But, to be honest, there is a very nice moderator there who sounds so genuine @Tasuki and more people I can't remember now.

@-DEMISE- LOL I am a lovely guy in person, but I know I can sound a bit too straightforward here.

@VanillaLake I'm fangirling over your relationship with @-DEMISE- .
What you need to do next is like find out you both work at the same cafe or something, or that you both have to live together (because of plot).

that's how all of my manga usually start. (^_^ )

@VanillaLake In all sincerity I never see anyone criticizing Sony on this site. I just see a lot of people that really seem to hate Nintendo on this site. Now, I don't care one bit if you hate Nintendo. It's your prerogative. But it is eternally perplexing to me that anyone would go out of their way to sign up for a site that's dedicated to one specific thing, and then only ever post comments about how much you hate that one thing. Why would anyone ever like that? Sorry, but you're going to get "flamed" if that's your M.O.

Anyway, I'm sure you're lovely, and I really don't hate you. But the internet. You know.

@Utena-mobile Too bad, @-DEMISE- lives in America and I live in Europe, but who knows...

By the way, the message I can't decipher is #318.

@Utena-mobile I don't think my wife would like me taking on a new roommate, or the paycheck that comes with working at a cafe. It's a good suggestion though.

@JaxonH Other M isn't an exception though, there are many others, maybe not as extreme but still cheaper. This week we got Super Paper Mario on the European Wii U eShop, again €20, no discount or incentive to rebuy it. You can easily buy it on Ebay for half the digital price and in some cases much less than half.

It's almost like an arrogance with Nintendo. We're Nintendo, you should be grateful to pay us €20. Our Wii U console is a failure with no future or real support but you still have to pay us €340 to buy it.

I say this as a massive fan of Nintendo. They're the only games consoles I buy. But I'm also a realist and a pragmatist. Nintendo have ****ed up big time, to the point that I'm not sure if there's a way back at this stage.

@-DEMISE- If you check my profile you'll see that I have the three consoles. Actually, I never had a PlayStation or Xbox until this generation, but I've been a Nintendo fan all my life. If you check my NNID you could find out on Miiverse that I own many games for Wii U and 3DS. I am a genuine person, I wouldn't waste my time signing up to be a troll about things I don't know. It's just silly, I know some people do it but for me it would be a waste of time. If you check my comments history you'll find out that my knowledge about games is huge and there are many Nintendo games I have praised. I complain because I care, if I didn't care I would waste my time on complaining, I would just ignore Nintendo and anything related to it.

@-DEMISE-
sigh- that's ok. real life never turns out like my manga anyways. (T_T )

@VanillaLake
you mentioned that people are scared of Sammy on pushsquare. I agree. But I like Tasuki and ShogunRok so I stay on pushsquare.
Then I mentioned that I changed my avatar to Lt. Noin, because I like ShogunRok but he never noticed.

But that's the joke, because ShogunRok is using a Zechs Marquise Avatar, and Lt. Noin has a crush on Zechs, but Zechs never notices.

But now I've explained it, and it no longer works, and if ShogunRok notices this comment he's going to think I'm weird. way to go. (--_-- )

@SLIGEACH_EIRE If you really are a "realist", then you should recognize the very real gaping hole in the middle of your argument, which is that used copies of games are less expensive than their brand new counterparts in practically 100% of all cases. For example, I can go to Game Stop and buy a used copy of GTA V for my Xbox 360 for $26.49 ('$' being the symbol of our currency here in the USA). If I buy that same game brand new, it's $29.99. And if I buy a digital copy, it is $59.99. Strange that they don't follow your logic of "the used game is cheaper! therefore make the new copy cheaper!"

@Utena-mobile I agree, I mentioned @Tasuki as a great guy earlier, I don't know the other guy though. I know some people are "afraid" of Sammy, "afraid" is not the word because he certainly doesn't look like a guy that would scare anybody (or anything), but you know what I mean, it's like people don't want him to annoy them so they don't say what they're really thinking. I'm not "afraid" of Sammy, I already told him he's not doing things right and I'm sure he must know it himself, because it's obvious that he's making PushSquare a very cheap Sony's propaganda magazine and it's sad because there are great people there.

@VanillaLake That's all well and good, but most people seek out sites such as this one as a refuge from the constant barrage of Nintendo-hate that they get on every other gaming site. So even if you are a well-meaning person and a genuine Nintendo fan, it really just spoils the whole experience for people that come here to avoid that particular brand of negativity. It's called nintendolife, not nintendosucksinsomanywaysletstalkaboutallofthemforever.

@VanillaLake
oh, well, I don't have any problems with Sammy. Btw, you know who I really like? Alex on nintendolife. I like him and his beardy face and his soothing voice as he talks his way through the latest Nintendo product he has just bought. We need more Alex videos.

@prog4m3r dude it's like talking to a brick wall. Trying to explain that you can't pick and choose which games you shut down is hard work.

Legally Nintendo would have very difficult time in the future when it comes down to shutting down other people stealing Nintendo IP's.

Anyway to the people who think Nintendo shouldn't have shut it down. I expect you all to support the next smartphone rip off of a Nintendo IP. Wanna see you coming in here saying Nintendo should allow this games to appear and stay in the app stores.

@-DEMISE- Metroid: Other M is new, Super Mario Maker is secondhand. If it's cheaper, it's cheaper. Your console won't spit it out because it's secondhand. The only thing a gamer should care about is the change in their pocket. Finding sealed Wii games at this point, many of them over 5 years old wouldn't exactly be easy. No need for that anyway as you're only going to open and play them.

Nintendo have found themselves in trouble and the Wii U cut short exactly because they haven't been doing things right.

@Utena-mobile LOL Alex overacts way too much when doing his videos (and I also said that on the comments once). It makes me nervous.

@VanillaLake I thought that was his personality? it's endearing.

@Utena-mobile Nope, I bet he's shy in real life, he is just overacting.

@-DEMISE- But I'm a critical person and I believe the comments section is to say my honest opinion*, but do not worry, it's not always negative. Okay, now say whatever you want because I'm going to sleep... And you broke my heart anyway when you said you have a wife. Good night.

*"While we do allow members to debate and voice their own opinions, there will be a limit to how far a heated debate can go"
-Community Rules

@SLIGEACH_EIRE Yeah, you seem to be missing the point. You see, you have free agency, so you can go out and buy used games to your heart's content. Whereas Nintendo, also with free agency, can charge however much they want for their games. If you aren't happy paying Nintendo the price of entry, then keep buying your games used off of ebay. And you're right that your console won't spit out a used game, but nor will your right to buy a used game simply disappear because Nintendo charges $5 more for the same game on the eShop. This isn't a discussion about the best way for gamers to buy games on the cheap, it's a discussion about the way a given market deals with the pricing for new and used products. Nintendo's pricing is directly in line with the rest of the industry, but for some reason you hold them to a different standard.

And I can go into just about any store that sells new games and find shelves full of new Wii games still in the wrapper, so it's odd that the situation is so different in Europe.

@MarcelRguez
I can and have. OoT and the GBA Mario games were enhancements, Zero Mission was a remake.

@VanillaLake That's fine. I'm probably one of the most critical people you could ever hope to meet. But I don't go sign up for Fiat fan sites to tell everyone how much I hate the way the new Fiats look and how overpriced I think they are. I'm just saying that maybe if you want to criticize Nintendo at such a constant rate, you should consider doing so on ign, or kotaku, or gamespot, or polygon, or just about any general gaming site where that mindset is alive and well, because you're much more likely to find sympathetic ears on any one of those sites than you are on this one. But hey, it's a free world (in some places), so I can't stop you from doing what you love.

And hey, I might be married, but there's always room for new best friends.

I feel a bit sad that I've got this far through the comments without getting into any real ideological fist-fights, and am thus lacking the associated ego-boost that comes with valiantly defending one's opinions about video games.

So let me say this to compensate:

I am a radical super-dude and my breath smells like honeysuckle and raspberries, and old books, and new books, and freshly cut grass, and logs fires and apricots. My eyes have the radiance of a thousand moonbeams, yet the depth of an unfathomable abyss. My voice is softer than a baby lamb wrapped in swaddling cloth, yet stronger than a herd of Spartan pack-horses. And I give great hugs. My hugs are in the top 5% of all hugs.

I think that's done the job.

I got my copy of M2 form the e-shop. Still don't understand why we don't get the Super Gameboy color pallet options for e-shop releases. For this reason I have my original GB version of the game I play on my back lit modded original GBA. Even that release splashes some colors on the screen. It is a great game sorely needing some color but I'm glad this the creator of this fan made game is classy and I'm glad his skills got him a job.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE
You don't have to feel fortunate to pay $20, but you certainly don't need to feel like you're being cheated either. You're not supposed to feel fortunate- it's not a sale price, it's a full MSRP price. But at the same time you'd be hard-pressed to find these games cheaper than that brand-new. And if you do, it's going to be one game here and there as an exception to the rule. You can cite eBay but I shop eBay all the time- 75% of my GameCube and Wii collection came from eBay, and the prices on there are worse than Amazon in many cases. Only way you get deals on eBay is buying used games.

And sure, Nintendo has messed up in a lot of ways. But selling Wii games for $20 (when Sony sells PSP for $20) is not one of them. And I mean, let's set the record straight here- we're talking about one bad selling console here. It's not the end of the world. I'm sure you could list a whole sheet full of things they've done wrong amd missteps taken, but who's counting anyways? Every company makes major missteps (MS with X1 launch or Sony with Vita). It happens. Bad decisions get made all the time. But why are gamers more concerned with the politics of company decisions than they are with just playing and enjoying the games they like. There's a question for the ages.

Leap Year.

@Onion People don't watch the video. They just get on Youtube, hit dislike, go away. They don't watch it.

People are not giving the game a fair chance. And you wonder why Nintendo rarely goes out of its comfort zone with the few big hitters it has left.

And as I've said many times, the last time Metroid was a big hitter was the MP2. MP3 should have sold 3+ million considering it was on the Wii. But it sold a measly 1.3 million. That's not a lot of copies.

I'm pretty sure NX will launch with a Metroid game. That's going to be the final straw if it doesn't sell. Good thing for people is that Retro is doing it, so there's like a 10% chance Metroid fans will like it... at least until they learn its not a Super Metroid remake.

I see that @BiasedSonyFan 's reply has already vanished. I will reply anyways:

Yes, it is their right to accept of decline it.
But saying that these fangame programmers should "ask" them if they may use their IP's is not only counter productive, its also almost impossible.

It is not that these persons have a direct line to the people in charge of their rights management. And i hardly doubt that a company of that size will even acknowledge a hobby programmers question for approval.
Heck, even other companies suffer from communication and rights management issues. Just look at how many games are stuck in "re-release limbo" due to that.

One example of the top of my head: MegaMan Legends 2 only recently got released on PSN since they had contract issues with their original voice cast, which prevented them from re-selling the game digitally.

We're also talking about customer relations here, not just business. If you could call a non-commercial product a business in the first place.

Nintendos actions are the textbook definition of "how to not treat your consumer base" on any given front.
They regularly strike against YouTubers Streamers and try to profit off of them. Basically getting payed for other peoples promotional work.
And those are not just some fancy words. Warner Bros recently got in legal trouble for actively seeking out and bribing YouTubers to make (favorable) Reviews and Let'sPlays of their content. So pretty much the exact opposite here.
It is a proven fact that, yes, these forms of media do affect sales and PR.

They also target fan films. Nintendo has no business in the movie making industry. So fan films wouldn't even serve as competitor products, like games would do. And yet, they strike them down on a regular basis for literally no other reason than "because we can".

Or look at the recent takedown of the Nintendo Power archives.
The magazine stopped production in 2012. Thus, what was archived on the net was of no monetary value to Nintendo.
All it did was preserve the legacy of this magazine and, again, act as free PR for the companies past products.
Maybe some people, while reading these old issues, suddenly feel the need to purchase some old games off of the Virtual Console ?
Sadly, this archive has been taken down by Nintendo. Again, for no other reason than "because we can".

With fangames, i already gave three examples how this whole thing could have been handled.
The "path of least resistance" is still the Capcom example.
No one in their right mind would argue, that a company should tolerate commercial fanproducts.
No one should be in a position to earn money with other peoples hard work.
But we are talking about non-commercial projects. Things, that have no commercial impact on the company at hand in any way, shape or form.

What i find most ironic about all of this, is that Super Mario Maker came to life from this exact same idea:
To let fans make their own games. They even promoted it with encouraging words, that they may even learn a thing or two about designing a game on their own.

And when people take this mindset, this idea in a different direction, it suddenly becomes a bad thing, instead of being seen as what it is: Appreciation of their products and free PR.

Again, yes, they are legally right about this.
But if we are all honest, Nintendo is in no position to keep this sort of practice going.

The WiiU was a major financial flop, there are no two ways about it. They recently came unter heavy fire for their abhorrent censorship and dubios PR workers.
And the path they took regarding their games themselves is also far from universally praised.
From games like Animal Crossing - Amiibo Festival, which was basically released without anyone taking notice of it over Star Fox Zero, which game design choices where questioned across the board, they seem to have lost their touch.

Nintendo is bleeding customers all across the board, and alienating fan efforts to pay tribute to one of their biggest franchises anniversary, which they themselves have neglected for over 6 years now, isn't going to help them.

I dont have a problem with Nintendo protecting their IP, but let's be honest here- this remake fiasco is the direct result of Nintendos ongoing policy of completely ignoring it's fans. Not the transient casual market, not the under 10's, but the very real, very intelligent fan base who have stuck by Nintendo all these years. The fans who funded Nintendos development.

I firmly believe that this fan project is an indication of the desires of those fans whom Nintendo continue to arrogantly dismiss. If Nintendo won't make those games, someone will. And you know what? They have a bloody market.

When Metroid 'Prime' cough Federation Farce is released and bombs like Amiibo Festival, I want Reggie to publicly apologise for patronising those fans who were deeply unhappy about this whole project. He insisted that we didn't know what we were talking about, that WE are wrong.

Let's see about that Reggie.

So basically these guys threw a hornets nest between the two, Nintendo and "fans", now they call for peace? Classy. Keep feeding it NL.

@locky-mavo
What are you on about? Doc's been working on this remake for almost a decade now.

@LUIGITORNADO
in my reality, people enjoy having the choice to spend their earned money as they please, and it doesn't affect anyone else.
fun!

@BaffleBlend I can.

Screw you, NoA. People worked hard on this game. It was their life to create this game. And it's freeware. Not like Metroid Federation Force. It will be a crappy game. This is not a crappy game. This game is awesome and free. Yes, you heard that, Nintendo. Free. And it's still much better than FF, which I think will cost 48 Euro or something. And millions of people have already downloaded this game, and you can't hack their computers! "Take that", Nintendo!

@-DEMISE- 342
This so much. It's true and I don't really get it. If you hate them so much, why do you even bother? I prefer the Wii over the PS3 and feel that since the PS3 Sony kind of abandoned the consumer I am, and going by comments online other people feel the same. That's why I own a Wii U and not a PS4. Not even the new Final Fantasy seems to sell me on one, which is quite sad, because to me that would be a system seller. It just goes to show that the gaming industry has changed, not necessarily for the good. Despite that you don't see me on PushSquare or anywhere else raining on the parade of everyone who dares to enjoy their recent output, saying that I'm a true fan and everyone else a problem, that I'm saying the truth people can't handle etc. People say that some on here are over-sensitive, Nintendo Defense Force and the like. But if I'd go and write about what I don't like about the more recent PlayStation brand on PushSquare and other sites, would I get a standing ovation or what? No, I wouldn't.

Some say that they want Nintendo to be better or whatnot. As if bashing them online makes anything better. It's like, say, you want to loose weight and people around you say things like "fat pig" to motivate you. Do you feel motivated? Likely not. That's what those bashboys seem like to me.

Another thing I don't get is how some bash Nintendo, but then happily buy or own other consoles, as if the other companies were any better. They say that Sony "listens to the fans". Yes, just look at all the Vita support.

I say, like what you like, dislike what you dislike, but there is no reason to make life harder for anyone. It even goes as far as being likened to cancer for enjoying the Wii U, which is just sick.

One thing I absolutely can't stand, though, is all the "this isn't what the fans want", "we didn't ask for it". What fans? Who's we? No, you. It's about you. "Fans" aren't a single-minded entity. That's also one reason I think people usually ask for a game, like Star Fox, but then go to say "This isn't what we wanted". Because if you only say general things like "We want Metroid" you will have thousands of people behind it. But if you would go into details you would see that the "true Metroid game fans want" doesn't exist, because everyone has their own opinion, some might be close, but some would be lightyears apart.

@shaneoh Nope. Never.

@HappyMaskedGuy
And when are "fans" going to apologise for every instance of arrogance and being wrong?

So much for "intelligent", huh? Wow, just wow.

@Ninten-san
I can only assume you are replying to my original comment. There is nothing to suggest that they won't make another 2D game, or license someone else to do so.

@Syrek24 I simply call a turd a turd.

@VanillaLake Amiibo Happy Hone Designers? I've heard that Happy Home designers is basically a normal AC game with home designing in it. I've heared it's quite good too...

@shaneoh Then you're doing a foolish thing. I don't want to explain obvious things you already know, so I won't explain my argument.

And remakew, enhancements, it doesn't matter what you consider them. They still exist in betweem that time frame.

Can immaterial ownership rights still upset people?

People mainly wanted AM2R because it was a classic Nintendo game. Any claim that it ought to be creator's to give away is easily dismissed for that reason alone.

You can't give away what belongs to somebody else.

@HappyMaskedGuy
You don't have a right to give something to an audience, just because you have a market for your product.

If Nintendo doesn't want to remake Metroid 2, it's a shame for those who want to play a remake.

If the AM2R guys want to make a Metroid game, they can Talk to Nintendo, or make something similar, like Reven, Hive Jump, and all the others are doing.

It is not arrogant to tell someone to stop giving your property away to others for free.

@MarcelRguez
Oh please, there is no argument, they went back with Mario, they went back with Donkey Kong (also 14 years between DKC3 and DKCR), there is no reason they can't and won't do the same with Metroid. All the Metroid games are playable on current hardware, so they exist in the time frame as well.

@shaneoh They haven't made a new 2D Metroid game since the GBA.

@Ninten-san
Your point being? They didn't make a new 2D Mario/DK in the N64 and Gamecube eras, 14 years each between 2D instalments. Metroid has only had 12 years since Zero Mission. That's the point, nothing is stopping them from making another 2D Metroid game.

@Pod
If you read my comment properly you'd have realised I actually said I support Nintendo protecting their IP.

What I said was that this project has been, rightly or wrongly, a result of fans repeatedly being sidelined for a casual audience. If you read into the actual background of this, instead of leaping onto your high horse, this project was about fans expressing their love for the franchise, by creating something that Nintendo could easily do for fans, but refuse. It was a not for profit project. I don't disagree with Nintendo shutting it down- but I do disagree with Nintendo doing so and giving us FF instead.

You tell me how happy you are about Federation Force having the 'Prime' label slapped on it in an attempt to mislead genuine fans. It's bad business.

This whole story just tells me what is happening n the market. Nintendo will miss yet another boat. Fans arent drivelling idiots, as is so often implied around here. Some of us know what we like, and why we like it.

@BiasedSonyFan Good for you, saying things sarcastically

But I did say I don't have anything against Nintendo protecting their IP.

Now play nice!

@Rin-go Heres the beauty of this-

We are the customers. We don't need to apologise.

Nintendo doesn't do things out the kindness of its heart. It does them to make money. We, the customers, give them money for their products. Novel concept eh?

I'd have bought AMR2.

But I won't buy Federation Force.

@XCWarrior
By that logic, explain the success of Splatoon please.