News Article

Nintendo Still Seeking a Product to Define the GamePad, With Hopes of Sales Driving Third-Party Support

Posted by Thomas Whitehead

"We first need to create a strong foundation in areas Nintendo excels at"

With the Wii U currently enduring a tough run in the marketplace, finding answers to the conundrum of enticing consumers is becoming increasingly challenging. The system is struggling for third-party support, yet that becomes less likely with each poor set of sales results, while it has an expensive controller in the GamePad that is yet to capture the imagination of a mainstream audience.

This was naturally an area addressed by Satoru Iwata in the recent investor Q & A, in which he admitted that Nintendo was at fault for failing to make the controller's features "explicit to our consumers". On the flipside, Iwata-san reported increasing interest in 3DS development, even in territories typically more focused on the home console market.

We developed Wii U in an attempt to change the way people play with a video game system on TV. Traditionally, the players needed to be in front of a TV in order to play a home console, meaning that it was impossible to play when others were watching TV. Under these conditions, especially in Japan, handheld game devices increased their share and the home console market became smaller. With Wii, we managed, to a certain degree, to bring everyone back into the living room to play games. However, while you could occupy the TV screen and enjoy games when you were playing with the others, it was still difficult to occupy the TV screen when you are playing alone, which was a huge issue for us. On the other hand, battery-powered handheld devices only allowed for a limited range of gaming experiences. The starting point for the Wii U GamePad was the question of how we can offer rich gaming experiences anywhere in the house without being restricted to the TV screen. In addition, we have considered, for example, what is made possible by having two screens or a mechanism in which there is a screen only one person can see, and combined these propositions to develop Wii U. However, I feel it is our fault that we failed to ensure that these features were explicit to our consumers. What Mr. Miyamoto and I are trying to achieve is a product whose concept people can easily understand, which is linked to what I said earlier today about developing titles that are only made possible by the Wii U GamePad.

Finally, in terms of third-party support, while many point out that Nintendo has traditionally been weak in terms of acquiring it, if you consider the Japanese market, it is fair to say that the number one dedicated video game system that Japanese third-party publishers are focusing on is Nintendo 3DS. This is because Nintendo 3DS has an overwhelmingly strong presence in the hardware as well as software markets for dedicated game systems, meaning that it would be illogical not to do business on Nintendo 3DS, and we are cooperating with third-party publishers in a variety of ways as long as we can establish win-win relationships. On the other hand, if you turn to the overseas markets, as home consoles are more popular, many publishers are not as focused on handheld devices. In such an environment, while we are certainly not satisfied with its overall unit sales or the results from the last year-end sales season, the fact that Nintendo 3DS has now sold over 10 million units in both the U.S. and Europe seems to be news for third-party publishers, and we have recently been receiving more proposals from third-party publishers. However, as many overseas software publishers are specialized in developing games for high-end home consoles, while they are very interested in Nintendo 3DS, it appears that they are currently investigating what they want to develop on our platform.

Going on from those points, there's an assurance that Nintendo will become more active in assisting with localisation of Japanese games to Western territories. There's an acknowledgement that genres with a weaker role on Nintendo hardware make third-party support an additional challenge on Wii U, but the message remains that if first-party games can drive the Wii U to stronger sales, third-parties will become interested in the platform.

Also, we sometimes distribute, or even publish depending on the circumstances, games that were made by Japanese software publishers in the overseas markets, and you can expect to see more examples of this this year and the next. As for Nintendo 3DS, as I mentioned before, its total global sales have already exceeded 40 million units. As for Wii U, opinions significantly differ among third-party publishers. Software publishers that develop content that has great affinity with audiences that Nintendo has historically been strong with, namely children and families, are still very active supporters of Wii U, and their enthusiasm for Wii U can also been seen from the fact that they have even reached out to us to help people upgrade from Wii to Wii U. On the other hand, software publishers are not necessarily keen on making games in genres that have weaker affinity with audiences that Nintendo has not been as strong with, where making a huge investment does not guarantee a sufficient return. With regard to Wii U, we first need to create a strong foundation in areas Nintendo excels at and achieve a sufficient sales volume. If we manage to do so, those publishers in the overseas markets who are currently not interested in Wii U will be attracted to the Wii U platform, as they were to Nintendo 3DS. This is going to be our approach in the near future.

While the eShop store may provide some relief on the Wii U, it's tough to argue with the fact that the system is struggling for retail third-party support. Are you happy with the news that Nintendo will continue to work on bringing more Japanese games to the West, and do you think that interest can be boosted in the GamePad to improve sales and, ultimately, entice more third-parties on board? Let us know in the comments below.

[via nintendo.co.jp]

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User Comments (129)

Lord

#1

Lord said:

Not every game need gamepad gimmicks but most gamepad features are welcome.

FullbringIchigo

#4

FullbringIchigo said:

to be honest more third partys might get on board if they dropped the game pad and just used the pro controller but I like the gamepad so I hope they don't and can find a great game or app that can use it

maybe the DS games they are releasing on the Wii U will help as long as it's done right

Tsurii897

#5

Tsurii897 said:

Iwata used "wall of text"
Baum fainted....It'll take a little time, but I'll share my opinion on that one later (sounds kinda interesting)

VolcanoFlames

#6

VolcanoFlames said:

The GamePad has a lot of potential. Third parties have 2 options, and they can use the pro controller if they want to.

Lord

#7

Lord said:

Well sometimes Nintendo can push too hard, to achive that unique experience. Take skyward sword and the motion plus. Did this damage an excellent experience, or enhance? Whatever the outcome sometimes the option to turn on or off is also welcome feature.
As for third parties I'm sure they will come back to the wii u when the hardware sales increase. It looks at the moment that any third party port just won't sell enough copies to cover the porting costs.

Jazzer94

#8

Jazzer94 said:

It is worrying that we are now in the Wii Us second year and none of the games released or coming out this year really seem to utilize the gamepad in any meaning full way apart from off screen play and motion controls that the Wii did last gen.

CountBleck456

#9

CountBleck456 said:

I'm sure that if Nintendo were to advertise the gamepad better then more people would buy the system and in turn third parties would develop for it. I've had my Wii U since launch and I haven't met a single person who owns one, and most of my friends still think that the gamepad is just a Wii accessory despite me trying to explain it to them several times.

AltDotNerd

#10

AltDotNerd said:

The gamepad aspect (dual screen gameplay) seems to be a good idea, considering Sony and Microsoft are already trying to rip it off with the PS4/Vita connection and Xbox Smartglass.

AdanVC

#11

AdanVC said:

I don't understand... Nintendo Land excels at using the Gamepad capabilities. Game and Wario as well but that game is so bizarre that just simply would not work to attract the casual market and people in general. Maybe a Nintendo Land sequel could highlight even more the Gamepad capabilities and if they mix it with a strong advertisement and TV commercials, this could enhance Wii U in that aspect a lot.

unrandomsam

#12

unrandomsam said:

The thing outside Japan people have none paperthin walls and space is less of a premium. (So having as many TV's as you want is not really an issue).

DarkKirby

#14

DarkKirby said:

The GamePad itself isn't going to overcome the Wii U's lack of power compared to the PS4 and Xbone, lack of games, or make it suddenly appeal to the casual market that doesn't care about consoles anymore. Saying once how "amazing" the GamePad is is properly demonstrated will turn the Wii U's fortunes around is hogwash.

That's like saying the DS and 3DS's main reason for success was because of the dual screens. The Dual Screens are nice, and they certainly don't detract from games, but most games just use the lower touch screen for map or inventory display, AND THAT'S FINE.

AyeHaley

#15

AyeHaley said:

" On the other hand, battery-powered handheld devices only allowed for a limited range of gaming experiences"

Yeah..sure...the Wii U isn't like that at all...with our stone walls here in Europe..
That thing is hardly portable outside my living room. (bless you, 3DS)

Mr_G

#16

Mr_G said:

Nintendo should have made an HD console with an normal controller and have had the 3DS used as a touch screen controller and eliminated the completely useless gamepad.
It would have encouraged sales of both machines to households. There nothing a 3DS can do as a controller than the gamepad cant

shigulicious

#17

shigulicious said:

The gamepad is loaded with potential yet even Nintendo can't fully utilize it. I would have thought that they had plenty of ideas cemented before the launch of the thing. Turn it into a digital etch-a-sketch.

jcags

#20

jcags said:

Nintendo needs to drop their stupid 80s mentality of "build it and they will come", the real reason why third parties are not investing in Nintendo is because Nintendo offers no incentives whatsoever, Sony's PS1 is proof of that, the PS2 is proof of that, the 360 and so on. If they want third parties on their platforms they better incentivate them like Sony does with the PS3 and PS4.

Capt_N

#21

Capt_N said:

The thing is, they keep emphasizing the Gamepad. Like motion controls, it is not needed for every game. Lower the price of the system overall, release at least a few really good first party games to get some income, Still include the GP, but don't focus on it being the center of the system. Some days, you just can't get rid of,... No, I'm just kidding, sometimes you just can't get a square block into a round slot.

Edit: I like the GP concept, it allows for. The thing is, properly utilizing it, only when necessary. As well as utilizing it for only mundane things, like map/inventory when/where appropriate. My point is, Nintendo should use the GP, but only when/where necessary, & only how it is necessary to utilize it, for any given game.

Edit 2: Don't over-focus on the GP, if the features it can appropriately provide for a game, are more than enough for that particular game. If it's not needed, don't use it.

Mr_G

#22

Mr_G said:

@shigulicious

It would have cut cost and brought the price of the WIi U down considerably and i wouldnt have to charge my controller after every game session lol

schizor

#23

schizor said:

I don't see Nintendo making a product as popular as Wii Sports, focusing only on the gamepad. The gamepad, even though I LOVE IT, is really old news, and not a game changer. The cool thing about the Wii back in 2006 was the motion controls combined with wii-sports. They made a new trend with Wii-sports, and the gamepad "even though I LOVE IT" ;-) Is still only a tablet, and the casual-game-market that Nintendo conquered with Wii-sports, and now trying to speak to with the gamepad is probably already under the influence of a smart-device.

schizor

#24

schizor said:

I think the way to go might be strong, firstparty/Nintendo games. The Legend of Zelda please..... I really don't see Nintendo pulling another Wii-success with the Wii U. But on the other hand. I don't see Nintendo failing with the Wii U either. Maybe all this comes down to one thing, sales-projections. Even though Nintendo aims high and all fans wants the Wii U to sell over 100 million units like the Wii. That most likely won't happen. But that still doesn't mean that the Wii U is doomed or a failure or whatever.

SecondServing

#25

SecondServing said:

Well honestly Wii U won't get any third party support. It's the fate I've accepted as a gamer, so I got a Xbone to play shooters and stuff. :P I recommend everyone does the same and get their 3rd party platform of choice. (PS4,Xbox One, PC)

schizor

#26

schizor said:

@Capt_N I just read your post and I very much agree with you. :-)
Price cut is imo the only possible way to turn this around. Make the Wii U the best deal by making it the absolutely cheapest home-console you can buy. Fire away great Firstpartygames and BOOM! "just like Nintendo did with the 3DS". no one really cared about the 3D-effect just like no one really cares about the gamepad. The thing people seem to care about is 1. Is it cheap. 2. Does it have great games. But who knows. Nintendo might make something amazing :-)

Boxmonkey

#27

Boxmonkey said:

Ps4 and a wii u is the only way I can play all those third party games. Just show me zelda u

Beetlejuice

#28

Beetlejuice said:

@Jazzer94

Exactly. It seems like they thought the gamepad would be a great idea, thought of ways it could be used, built it, then realized none of the things they thought of really made the gamepad feel necessary. With the gamepad, Nintendo created a solution to a problem that never existed in the first place. No one between 1985-2012 ever thought to themselves 'I hate pausing the game to view a menu, I would much rather have a giant controller with a screen on it so I could see the menu at all times', yet Nintendo went ahead with doing that.

rjejr

#29

rjejr said:

How long has the DS been out? Not the 3DS, the DS. Everybody said 2 screens wouldn't work yet it's 1 of - if not THE - greatest selling console of all time.

But Nintendo can't make a game that makes good use of a 2nd screen?

Ya know - maybe it's not your lack of Gamepad centric games that's killing the Wii U Nintendo - maybe it's just your lack of games that people wanted that's killing the Wii U. Maybe if the Wii U had launched w/ SM3DW and MK8 had come out last summer and SSB at Crhistmas. And Retro was workng on Metroid not another DK game. OR Zelda got a new game not a 10 year old port. Nintneod knows what people want, it's just not very good at giving it to them in a timely manner. The Gamepad gets enough usage in Lego Marvel and Zombie U. It doesnt need to be the end all and be all of every game. No, Nintneod hasn't made the game that sells the Gamepad - but if they put out the games people want they could sell the Wii U and the Gamepad would just be the extra benefit of maps and off-tv play and such.

1. Sell the Wii U w/ games people want
2. People w/ the Wii U see the Benifit of 2nd screen play and tell their friends
3. Profit

banacheck

#30

banacheck said:

After reading that Nintendo are creating gimmicks for the sake of it, even tho it adds nothing at all apart from playing without the need of a TV. Isn't that why people buy handhelds, being portable without needing a TV. Some of us own our own TV's or does Nintendo not get that, and not only that people buy consoles to play there games on TV. Nintendo lost it.

XCWarrior

#31

XCWarrior said:

@FullbringIchigo Well considering DS needs to screens, the Gamepad is going to become more essential, eh?

They aren't dropping the Gamepad, so drop the topic. It should take developers 5 minutes to give a game classic controls to appease people like you. The Gamepad has plenty of buttons and they are in good places.

audiobrainiac

#32

audiobrainiac said:

I think Nintendo should carefully choose which Japanese games they localize. Sometimes the cultural differences don't translate well often leaving some games unnoticed. Personally i love my Wii U and the gamepad and can't wait to see how they make it a huge success. I'll always have faith in Nintendo, even if it wavers a little. Their game systems are the only ones that interest me. I think to some degree its cool that they are patient in releasing games new and old, and they keep everyone agonizingly anticipating releases on the edge of their seats. But still even I am ready for them to step it up a notch.

Crillan

#33

Crillan said:

@Mr_G The WiiU is an HD system and it does have normal controllers...

Perhaps the issue is a simple lack of information or the abundant amount of misinformation out there about the system.

MEGAMAN_D

#35

MEGAMAN_D said:

Why are there people in this comment section that keep saying

"the gamepad has yet to be used properly"

Have none of you people played zombi U, batman arkham city armored edition, deus ex directors cut, or wonderful 101 ?

What exactly do you people want ? and do you even know what you want ?

whateverman

#36

whateverman said:

@Jazzer94 wonderful 101 and Pikmin 3...apparently deus ex too but i haven't tried that. Also, off tv play is a big deal so dont count out 3d world and other games that make use of that feature

FJOJR

#37

FJOJR said:

Why not focus on mastering the Wii Remote Plus? Kinda like how Jim Gaffigan says Domino's Pizza might wanna work on mastering the pizza before delving into making sandwiches.

enderboy221

#39

enderboy221 said:

You know, it seems like it's been forever since the last Nintendo Direct! They seriously could use one.

audiobrainiac

#40

audiobrainiac said:

@I-AM-REGGIE I TOTALLY agree. I love ZombieU, and Batman, and i plan on getting Deus Ex this Friday. I even love the way Monster Hunter uses it! People are quick to put it down, but they themselves couldn't think of a better way to use it. The Gamepad IS baddonkey.

DinoFett

#41

DinoFett said:

What if and I wish that their next console involved goggles only like Virtual-Boy.

JaxonH

#44

JaxonH said:

@countbleck456

With all due respect to your friends, how dull are they lol? I mean, if someone told me "this is the controller for a new console" then I'd understand that this is a controller for a new console, the first time you said it. People may think it's a tablet for Wii initially, but people aren't stupid. If you tell them "This is the controller for the Wii U, which is Nintendo's newest home console. The original Wii is old news" I really can't picture them not getting it...

worldstraveller

#45

worldstraveller said:

I gotta go with the exclusives that will help selling the Wii U, like some said it needs exclusives.
as for the gamepad unnecessary, I don't think the Wii U main gamepad is the problem, if you can have a pro controller, then the gamepad supposed "problem" is out of the window.
but the fact they need some games that get creative with the game pad? yes
the gamepad isn't the main problem, many exclusives in many different genres - story exploration, would be neat, also the gamepad would be great influence in RPGs in battle systems and synthesising, all you have to do is be creative, not just practical functions such inventory and map.

JaxonH

#47

JaxonH said:

@banacheck

Ok, a gimmick is "call in the next 15 minutes and we'll throw in this shiny keychain!". That's a gimmick. Pre order DLC, that's a gimmick. Gamepad, not a gimmick. It's a controller with a screen on it, something that we could only DREAM of back in the Gamecube days. In fact, I distinctly recall telling my brother, "Wouldn't it be cool if one day they made controllers with screens on them?".

The gamepad was designed for several purposes, one of which is the ability to play off-screen. Another is asymmetrical gameplay. Ya know. Me and you racing together, you on the TV, me on the gamepad. No split screens. Or 3 players and only needing to spit the TV into 2 sections instead of 4. Another is dual-screen added gameplay. Like ZombiU, Wonderful 101, Wii Sports Golf, and other games have so well demonstrated. The gamepad is a solid and sound, value-added design choice.

The reason Nintendo is saying they want to use the gamepad better, is because people won't stop complaining that they need to use the gamepad better. The reason Nintendo is saying they want to use the gamepad better, is because off-TV play is not the only added benefit that 2 screens offers. Just take a gander at games like Fractured Soul or Mario & Luigi Dream Team on 3DS. The concept is proven. It's just a matter of application on Wii U.

electrolite77

#48

electrolite77 said:

@JohnRedcorn

Nicely put. I smiled at "With the gamepad, Nintendo created a solution to a problem that never existed in the first place. No one between 1985-2012 ever thought to themselves 'I hate pausing the game to view a menu, I would much rather have a giant controller with a screen on it so I could see the menu at all times', yet Nintendo went ahead with doing that."

Nintendo again missing the point here. The problem isn't the lack of games that use the Gamepad in a gimmicky way. It's a lack of games. Off TV Play is the best thing about the pad, games that use the screen for anything else will struggle to sell to people who use it for that. It was a silly, confused idea but it is what it is. To give the console a chance it needs a better range of games, better advertising, better online and probably a better price.

Beetlejuice

#49

Beetlejuice said:

@I-AM-REGGIE

Aside from Zombie U, where the use of the gamepad actually added tension, all those other games can be played with a standard controller and be enjoyed just as much. Maybe you prefer the added gamepad functions, but they are not a requirement to play the game and a lot of Wii-U owners (and non owners) don't care about them.

Several of the top DS games needed a touch screen to be played, while the same doesn't apply to the Wii-U.

luke88

#51

luke88 said:

Did anyone else infer a reference to what we all refer to as 'Miyamotos's new I.P' there? When he spoke about himself and Miyamoto looking for a way to communicate the value of the gamepad, through software, in a way everyone can understand? Makes me think that Miyamoto's new I.P is likely to be more of a catch all type thing aimed at the great unwashed than something aimed specifically at 'gamers'. Not entirely sure what I even mean by 'gamers'; but basically I mean the kind of people, like us, that love to loiter around on the NL forums. Makes me less excited for Miyamoto's new IP.

banacheck

#52

banacheck said:

@JaxonH
A tablet stuck to a console is a gimmick aka Gamepad, read the first part of the article thats what it was designed for. There is only a handful of games that use the gamepad, and most of the ideas the games use using the gamepad came from the people who made them mostly 3rd party. If Nintendo did have any solid ideas for the gamepad we wouldn't be here today.

michaelshellman

#53

michaelshellman said:

i cant wait to see what they come up with. The game pad is genus! i guarantee no body is going to prefer split screen for a two player game. if you got friends or brother you play fps games with,then the wii u will offer the best experience for that because of the game pad. that's what the game pad is about,an opportunity and possibility that arn't present in any other console. the team of nintendo is currently working there butts off to provide us with something. the pendulum swings both ways the harder is swings in a bad direction the harder it'll swing in the good direction. so prepare your selves something good is on its way! :)

fluggy

#54

fluggy said:

Zombie U is the only one that seems to have created an enhanced experienced.... Was a good (if not great) game! Gamepad integration seems to be too much of a risk for even Nintendo to take... Their flagships (Zelda and Mario) games only have very uninspired uses! Want something creative to play on it! Come on Ninty!!!

JaxonH

#55

JaxonH said:

@banacheck

Call it what you want, but it's the console's controller. Nothing gimmicky about adding a screen to it. The concept has been proven to add value to gaming for decades. You could also say "a controller is just a bunch of buttons slapped on a plastic slab". It's not a tablet. It's a controller with a screen on it. A tablet is not a controller. A controller is not a tablet.

Nintendo themselves don't have to use it for anything. A gaming console is for ALL games, including 3rd parties. So even if 3rd parties are the only ones using it, so what? The point is it's THERE. And by being there, the second screen can thus be used by any developer who sees a good use for it. The existence of the screen does nothing to hamper the experience. It only adds to it. Even if off-screen play WAS the only use, which it's not, but even if it was, that's still added benefit.

I know what he said, but you're taking it out of context. Yes, the purpose is off-screen play. AND asymmetrical gameplay. AND dual-screen gaming. AND maps/hud reduction on TV screen. AND real time inventory management. AND anything else developers can dream up to use it for.

Nintendo used the gamepad well for Wii Sports Club Golf, Pikmin 3, Wonderful 101, Nintendoland and Game & Wario. That's quite a few games just right there. So no one can sit here and tell me they haven't used it because they have. They just haven't used it in all their games (which is a good thing, because if they did, you'd be complaining about them shoehorning it in whether it's a natural fit or not, like they did with the Wiimote).

We've only SEEN a handful of games from Nintendo. We've got half a decade of Wii U releases still on the way. We'll see more use of the gamepad. We'll see more clever uses like in Wonderful 101. But this argument is pointless. The fact that almost every single Wii U game to date uses the gamepad for SOMETHING more than off-screen play is the very definition of a useful addition.

Wonderful 101- dual screen puzzles and drawing Unite Morphs
NSMBU- Boost Mode
Zelda Windwaker HD- real time inventory mgmt/map
Pikmin 3- simultaneous character mgmt/map
Deus Ex- touch hacking/map editing/neural hub
Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate- HUD/map/shortcuts/item combos
Rayman Legends- Murphy Levels
Call of Duty BO2/Ghosts- asynchronous MP
Darksiders 2- real time inventory mgmt/map
Sonic Racing Transformed- asynchronous MP/ rearview mirror
Nintendoland- everything

Do we want to see Nintendo use the gamepad for some mind-bending gameplay addition, the likes of which has never been seen? Of course. And we will. But my goodness, people just want to live in the stone age forever. I mean, people complain about the areas where Nintendo is behind the curve, but when they're actually AHEAD of the curve, like integrating a second screen on the controller, all we hear is "it's a gimmick". Are you serious? Please, open your eyes past the hatred for this company and realize how much the gamepad has already brought to the table. Yeah, we wanna see more. But the mere fact it has the POTENTIAL to be more, in and of itself proves it is more than a gimmick.

midnafanboy

#56

midnafanboy said:

iwata just cause the wiiu has the gamepad doesn't mean third party developer will use it they only use it for map and quick selection thats it the only games that used the gamepad well was batman arkham city armored edition, wonderful 101 and zombiu which sold poorly and not going the light of day again thats sad though well iwata you better make games that uses the game pad properly here is a example metroid, f zero and screw it mario party too and maybe the third party developers will come back and finally use the game pad properly then make lazy ports of the game like last year.

Darknyht

#57

Darknyht said:

The statement of the article is here, "Software publishers that develop content that has great affinity with audiences that Nintendo has historically been strong with, namely children and families, are still very active supporters of Wii U, and their enthusiasm for Wii U can also been seen from the fact that they have even reached out to us to help people upgrade from Wii to Wii U."

To clarify, Nintendo's problem is that hardcore gamers are not their primary audience, children and families are. Catering to hardcore gamers will not solve their problems because they never were the intended audience of the console. Xbox and Playstation caters to hardcore gamers, by pushing numbers that sound good and add little to the quality of gameplay.

hcfwesker

#58

hcfwesker said:

One thing is NintendoLand showed promising uses for the GamePad ... but that was a family/children's game. Don't get me wrong, I'm 35 and enjoyed NL, but when THAT's your selling point release game for the new system, core gamers are going to laugh and assume, "looks like nintendo is still only going after the kiddy games again".

Not too sure on imports, but Nintendo owns the exclusive rights to Fatal Frame. Why have they NOT taken advantage of that yet? THAT's your GamePad core game to show off. If a game series ever had a use for it, it's Fatal Frame. Ghost hunting with the GamePad screen as your camera obscura is gold. Fatal Frame and the GamePad were meant to be. By now their exclusivity is probably over with, I haven't checked in on it lately. All we got out of that was that camera obscura 3DS game. What a shame.

Acampbell128

#59

Acampbell128 said:

I'm I the only one who is just happy to have off TV play. The Wii u gets more play time then any other console in my house for that exact reason.

mamp

#62

mamp said:

They said third party that doesn't make games for a younger audience basically fails in sales when it comes to Nintendo consoles. I just don't get how more console sales will help these developers. The Wii was the best selling console ever and it still didn't help third party devs sell a lot of games (for the same reason that iwata stated) I feel like Nintendo should put some focus on the older audience (of course after their sales improve) as well as the younger demographic. Third parties need to work hard to sell on Wii U but they shouldn't have to do all the work.

element187

#63

element187 said:

@XCWarrior thanks, people need to get over it. The gamepad is the only thing that differentiates Wii U from xBone and PS4.. If all a gamer cares about is specs they can buy a PC. If a gamer only cares about specs but doesn't know that a 1 teraflop device is lowend tech, than a PS4 and xBone is for them.

The gamepad is great, I love taking the HUD off my screen when playing MH. Pikmin 3's gamepad support was fantastic, setting way points and being able to control multiple units at once. It's really opened up the strategy potential of a Pikmin. It was intuitive. Doing that on a regular controller would have been pretty boring and lame.

Off tv play is the most underrated aspect about the gamepad.

JaxonH

#64

JaxonH said:

@unrandomsam

I can't speak for Nintendo, but if I had to fancy a guess, it's because DKC isn't really suited for dual screen gaming. I mean, it's a 2D platformer. What can you really do? If you notice, the games Nintendo hasn't really used the gamepad in have all been platformers. Platformers are not typically a genre you can experiment with like you could with others. Mario, Smash, DKC, Mario Kart, all games that really don't offer a whole lot of options, if you know what I mean. Though a rearview mirror for Mario Kart would be much appreciated.

I think games like X, games like Zelda U, Metroid U (whenever it comes)... these will be the games we see the innovative uses for. Games like Paper Mario (perhaps), SMT x Fire Emblem, Starfox (if we're lucky)... these will use it well. But platformers, such as Yoshi's Yarn or Kirby, I wouldn't hold my breath. Wouldn't hold out much for fighters or racers either. But RPGs, adventure games, puzzle games, even action games... these are a goldmine.

element187

#65

element187 said:

@JohnRedcorn Nintendo did solve a problem I wanted solved. When I was 5 years old, playing on the NES and my father would come from work wanting to watch the news and I didn't want to stop my game. I then and there wished Nintendo would make a Nintendo that would allow me to keep playing even when someone wants to use the tv .... Voila Wii U happened !!

You don't speak for me or anyone else who does like this console. The gamepad is far more Nextgen then just slapping an upgraded GPU into a box and calling it a day like Sony/MS do. That's boring. If you like specs, buy a PC. Why bother with low end consoles if that's all you care about is "zomg graffix"

JaxonH

#66

JaxonH said:

@mamp

If you do the math, a higher percentage of Wii U owners buys AAA games than on other consoles. You can't expect an install base of 5 million to match that of 160 million on PS3/360. But you look at games like Batman Arkham Origins or Splinter Cell Blacklist... a higher percentage of Wii U owners bought the game than those who own other consoles. That means, pound for pound, Wii U owners can match IF NOT EXCEED sales of other consoles.

Games like Rayman Legends, Deus Ex Human Revolution and Sonic Transformed matched OR EXCEEDED sales on consoles with install bases nearly 20x larger. That's no small feat. Killzone Shadowfall sells 1 million at launch and it's an outstanding success. Yet ZombiU sold 670,000 copies, out of what, 5 million Wii U owners, and Ubisoft claims it flopped? They claim Wii U owners don't buy these games. We DO, we just don't have a large enough pool of gamers yet to match the numbers seen on other consoles.

JaxonH

#67

JaxonH said:

@element187

Right. We've seen game after game after game uitilize the gamepad for something more than off-screen play. But people just aren't satisfied. It's a second screen, not a genie in a bottle. It's not going to perform magic tricks for you on demand. It's just a second screen. And we've seen it used for everything from asymmetrical gameplay to off-TV play, real time inventory management to map/HUD, dual-screen puzzles to real-time resource management, window scanner unit to in-game camera, environment extension to touch screen hacking. I don't know what more people want?

I understand games like NSMBU, Super Mario 3D World, DKC Tropical Freeze, Mario Kart 8 and Smash Bros 4 don't necessarily use the gamepad for anything extraordinary. But those games don't really offer much in the way of two screen gaming. It's just the nature of the games. Other games, like Pikmin 3, Wonderful 101, Wii Sports Club, Zelda Windwaker HD and Nintendoland do. I think we'll see a split of both, depending on whether the game is suited to it or not.

But goodness, I remember the backlash from Nintendo shoehorning motion into every game, and that's EXACTLY what people would be doing if these games had some off the cuff gamepad implementation. Better to do it only when it's a natural fit. The second screen is just a tool at the developers' disposal, as is the Wiimote. Wiimote is only used in games where it ADDS something, like Wii Sports Club and Pikmin. Same should apply for extra gamepad use. Otherwise, the function detracts from the game's integrity.

Excep7ional

#68

Excep7ional said:

@element187

The thing is, nobody wants to pay and arm and a leg for a pc. They are expensive as Tartarus. I won't lie, people do care about Specs and all of that stuff but why would they spend $1000+ on a PC when they can get a console that still looks gorgeous graphically and is still powerful for a much lower price? Not to mention not all third party games get released on PC so despite paying that much money on a powerful PC I still won't be able to play certain games. Consoles are more convenient.

I also understand you are Nintendo fan, but you undermine the PS4 greatly. Ps4 added in some nice features that weren't on Ps3. Streaming, game sharing (though I don't know much about this, I don't have a ps4 so...) not to mention a better Remote play with Vita connectivity which may not be as efficient as the gamepad, but people still enjoy it nonetheless.

Excep7ional

#69

Excep7ional said:

@JaxonH

Honestly, I think the Gamepad is a gimmick. No doubt in my mind that the Gamepad was added to draw in more people. Although, just because something is a gimmick doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing.

Beetlejuice

#70

Beetlejuice said:

@element187

I think the problem you experienced as a 5 year old should have resolved itself when you grew up, moved out, then bought a TV that you could do whatever you wanted with.

Sgt_Unreal

#71

Sgt_Unreal said:

I have a perfect commercial in mind that would really help the Wii U. There's a mid twenties to late thirties gamer playing his generic shooter with a headset on. The lights are flashing, the guns are blasting, explosions are going off when all of a sudden his phone rings.. it's his friend or younger sibling inviting him to play some Super Smash or Mario Kart respectively. He says ok n turns on his Wii U by pressing the power button on the Pro controller which has been sitting in front of him the whole time. He quickly sends a message with the Gamepad through his Friends List and joins the game. In no time, he is bouncing off his couch at how much fun he's having (obviously more than on his HD twins). You can hear battle sounds in the background with a final, "GAME!" And the commercial ends with Mario challenging you to a fight, with the Wii U AND SSB logos at the bottom.

Nintendo, DO IT!

This a perfect example of how the Wii U can compliment a "hardcore" gamer's gaming hobby. We all know it can't replace a PS4 or Xbox One, but it can definitely be a second box. Mine will sit right next to my Xbox One..

Beetlejuice

#72

Beetlejuice said:

I take comfort in that fact that everytime someone gets upset or calls me wrong for saying the gamepad was a bad idea, I can look over my shoulder and see 95 million former Wii owners who (so far) agree with me.

gatorboi352

#73

gatorboi352 said:

In regards to the Gamepad itself, Nintendo needs to take a page out of their own portable division and give it a redesign. Bring out the GamePad Lite. Less plastic, 0.3 inch bigger screen with Vita quality resolution display (540p) and the bigger battery. Make. It. Happen.

Oh, and actually allow 2 of them to work per system. And boost the range of the wireless.

DualWielding

#75

DualWielding said:

third party support won't come to the Wii U, yah it'll get skylanders and lego and just dance and shovelweare movie tie-ins but more than that.... nope.... and unlike the 3DS localizing Japanese games is not an option... at least I haven't heard of any amazing Wii U third party exclusives that are selling millions in Japan and are just waiting for localization likek is the case of Fantasy Life, ect.

jbrewer99

#76

jbrewer99 said:

@rjejr
You're absolutely right. I love my Wii u and I love the gamepad controller. The problem is both third and first party games aren't really here yet. While I won't say anything negative about wind waker HD, it's a beautiful game and one of my favorite Zelda titles, it wasn't what anyone wanted our expected; neither is another donkey Kong game. Customers want a new Zelda title and a new metroid. The gamepad is cool and I love using it, but we need the quality nitendo games we buy Nintendo consoles for. Mario kart and ssb will help, but we need the games we all want. I just hope Nintendo and retro are working on them.

jbrewer99

#77

jbrewer99 said:

Something I think could be helpful in the short term.. Like 6 months to 1 year, is some vc n64 and GameCube games. Also port over some of the great 3ds titles to Wii u like link between worlds, Luigi's mansion,ocarina of time, etc. Just a small bump in resolution is fine, they don't even need new textures on these.

mcusc5435

#78

mcusc5435 said:

@JohnRedcorn Your really adding a lot of insight to this discussion by saying statements like your last one...Those Wii owners that you mentioned don't even possess a Wii U so their opinions on the console mean absolutely nothing to me and most other Wii U owners... Most of the people who actually OWN a Wii U have a lot of fun with it and enjoy it

@JaxonH I completely agree with your comments about the Gamepad absolutely not being a gimmick...I own a Wii U and completely love the Gamepad and the uniqueness that it brings to the console and games, It makes it a lot more fun to me...I love this website but the use of the word "Gimmick" in the comment sections are ridiculous and have spurred a growing disliking of the word in general to me

Nomad

#79

Nomad said:

I think the Gamepad is the best controller I've ever used, and I've used at least a dozen different types of controller over the last thirty years. Do you know how convenient it is to NOT have to pause a game every single time you just want to manage inventory or access a map or other functions. Seriously, all you people who think the Gamepad is a gimmick, get with the times. After using the Gamepad I don't think I could ever go back to using an old fashioned traditional controller.

sevex

#80

sevex said:

This really reminds me of back when Nintendo was trying to convince people that two screens on the DS was a good idea.

Genesaur

#81

Genesaur said:

Sounds like he's thinking in the right direction. I'll maintain my position as, "Bring it on."

McGruber

#82

McGruber said:

I am a WiiU owner, and while I really like the game pad (not so much it's design), there are close to no games for me on the system! And I am a Nintendo fan! But I am not 13 I am 23 and so Nintnedo's software is not always what I want, and it certainly isn't ALL I want.

That being said. I don't think Nintendo has a prob appealing to kids and families, even though so far WiiU hasn't...

The BIGGEST PROBLEM is that Nintendo now has MILLIONS of FANS in the world who know they love Nintendo games, but can't be compelled to buy a system exclusivly to play Nintendo games.

Bolt_Strike

#83

Bolt_Strike said:

Yeah yeah Nintendo. You've talked the talk, now it's time to walk the walk. You need to show off such a game very soon if you don't want to be buried by the competition.

Excep7ional

#84

Excep7ional said:

@mcusc5435

Maybe people use the term "gimmick" in a negative way, but the actual definition has nothing to do with negativity at all. It's just something to draw attention and that's what the gamepad did. It's a gimmick but not a bad one (debatable.)

xSATANACHISTx

#85

xSATANACHISTx said:

Buy some exclusives for the Wii U. Everyone keep saying that Nintendo has a lot of money. Why don't they use it? How would the gaming community react if Nintendo announced an exclusive GTA- or CoD-game for the Wii U? Or how about letting popular western developers work on a few exclusive new IP's for Wii U?

mcusc5435

#86

mcusc5435 said:

@Excep7ional Yeah I just really enjoy the Gamepad and think that people are being way to critical of it when the console is still pretty young... Also many people say the screen is a bad idea but it can't be when Sony and Microsoft are pursuing their own forms of second screen gaming... The word just bothers me when used negatively and repetitively, when some that say it haven't even tried the Gamepad out

banacheck

#87

banacheck said:

@quaxonH

The Gamepad is not the main controller otherwise every game would use it, it's says a lot when nintendo themselves don't even use it in there own first party game.

Are you serious? Please, open your eyes past the hatred for this company

So if someone doesn't agree the Gamepad Is the second coming or something, you must hate Nintendo? Are you people for real.

Excep7ional

#90

Excep7ional said:

@mcusc5435 I know what you mean. I was skeptical about the gamepad at first but I think Nintendo could pull some really cool things with it. I won't judge it just yet because I haven't tried it myself but I know I wouldn't mind using it. But right now, Nintendo just isn't doing much with it which is why it's getting a bad rep. It just seems like the only thing it's good for is letting someone else watch TV while still being able to play a game.

mcusc5435

#91

mcusc5435 said:

@Excep7ional Yeah I have a lot of fun with it but I completely agree with you that Nintendo can utilize it a lot better than they have with some games and I really hope they do so that people will see its potential... You seem to have a really balanced, unbiased view of the state of Nintendo and I respect that a lot and it's great to comment with a person like that!

McGruber

#92

McGruber said:

The best feature of the gamepad will always be off TV play and the built in universal remote. So maybe the real failure is that they never successfully advertised that feature. Instead of having random families in Hollywood squares they should have done a simple commercial with a kid and his sister fighting over the TV ...

MysticX

#93

MysticX said:

@Lionsgate The problem is that off-tv play is the one thing the vast majority of the gamepad fans come up with as reason why the gamepad is great, hardly the "change the way people play games"-goal Nintendo set for themselves, maybe most people are perfectly happy with the way they currently play games?

Excep7ional

#94

Excep7ional said:

@mcusc5435 You and me both. We can only wait and see what they do with it. But thanks, lol. I'm just a fan of gaming in general so I try to be fair whenever something like this pops up.

@MysticX Maybe you're right. I don't recall anyone complaining about controllers as long as it was comfortable to hold and had good buttons. I mean unless you play fighters, shooters, and sometimes racers, nobody cared about the actual control.

3MonthBeef

#95

3MonthBeef said:

At this point the Wii U will just hobble along serving only to keep Nintendo busy and provide some (lower) income. This is their transitional console into whatever Fusion happens to be.

FullbringIchigo

#96

FullbringIchigo said:

@XCWarrior I never said I want the to drop it, I like the gamepad the off screen play is great and I think it has good potential just no game has used it to it's fullest yet

I said third party developers don't like it and would rather they dropped it, many have said this such as EA & Capcom to name a few

MAN1AC

#97

MAN1AC said:

Nothing Iwata has said or done leads me to believe that he will be able to get 3rd party support on the Wii U. The situation with them not validating the gamepad yet despite is pretty disappointing too.

rbmoura85

#98

rbmoura85 said:

@AdanVC they are seeking to create a great gamepad experience for more traditional players, instead of just casual...secondly, nintendoland is too "videogamish" or whatever, to have mass appeal like wii sports did...maybe they just need to release more wii sports modalities that use the gamepad in an important way...i dont know

Raptor78

#99

Raptor78 said:

I fit into the older gamer demographic. I'm 36 and have been a gamer all my life and pretty hardcore with it, and by hardcore I don't mean big flashy graphics and cut scenes or FPS etc. What the gamepad offers me is the ability to keep my game playing even when my family want to watch the TV. Off TV play IS the best thing about the wiiU and U don't mean that in a negative way. I and the kids have other consoles on TVs around the house but I prefer playing multiplayer games on the main family TV and the wiiU fits that profile perfectly. We are also a family of 3DS owners so whatever Ninty do to connect them together will be much appreciated. The long and short of it, Off TV play was something that I didn't know I wanted until U had it and now I don't know how I managed before.

JaxonH

#100

JaxonH said:

@banacheck

A person doesn't have to think it's the second coming. But you know people are nitpicking stuff to complain about when we get a controller with a screen on it and all we hear is complaints. That's like getting 4 wheel drive, and complaining you haven't had enough slippery, icy roads to drive on. The screen isn't hurting anything by being there. It only adds to the experience. So no, you don't have to jump for joy, but there's certainly nothing to complain about.

My PS4 controller has a touch PAD, and the light flickers when I'm holding a torch in Tomb Raider. And yet, you don't see me hating on that. In fact, there might be a few complaints about the light, but most people don't care. Yet when it comes to Nintendo, people wanna complain about everything.

Idk, you can't please Nintendo fans because most of them hate the company to begin with. I go on PS site and people are actually fans. Even though they have a Wii u of their own. They appreciate even the laggy PS4 Vita connection. But Nintendo fans, Idk why they're even called fans. They're never satisfied no matter what

JaxonH

#101

JaxonH said:

I wish people would stop taking their opinions from sensationalist journalists and Nintendo bashing fanatics. I guarantee you NO ONE would be so ignorant to misconstrue what an actual gimmick is.

Part of being a mature, rational adult is being able to voice your concerns without attacking, insulting, condescending Ord minimizing the subject in question. If a person has a legit concern, such as a desire to see more first party games use a unique two screen function, that can be said without slamming Nintendo, slamming Iwata and claiming an innovative controller with a screen on it is a gimmick.

I can appreciate a well voiced concern, but I cannot and will not respect someone who just rants and insults with unfounded remarks, the likes of which are heard within the ranks of Nintendo hating cults.

Strange that most people enjoy the Gamepad and it's various uses in games this far, and the only people who resort to attacking its purpose ate those who do nothing but complain all day anyways. That's not normal. It's been a long time since I read an article on this site that didn't end up in a bash fest by the usual suspects, forever dissatisfied no matter what Nintendo does.

So, off screen play is a gimmick? Ok, let's see that same people go whine about VITA connectivity on Sony's fan site. Especially since it doesn't even have enough shoulder buttons or lag free connection. Let's see these people complain about ds touchpad. Cause if a SCREEN is a gimmick what does that make a pad? Or the light bar. No. They only hate what Nintendo does.

I'm actually glad to see a pad, light bar and even a laggy Vita connection with touch mapped shoulder buttons. I feel Sony Dodd did us a great service by adding these new features. How much more glad should I be for lag free off screen play, tv control, asymmetrical gameplay, and the dozen other second screen uses we've seen?

I might be inclined to take a person's concern as legit, if they weren't attacking Nintendo on every single comment section they post on. I know Nintendo is by no means perfect but wow, there's a difference between an actual FAN voicing the occasional concern, and ANTI FANS bashing Nintendo for everything they do. Oh, screen on the controller? Gimmick. Low sales? Console must suck. Not rated M? Obviously for kids. 7 games in 30 years across two lines of hardware? Rehash. New game, don't buy it then complain Nintendo doesn't make new games. It goes on and on and on...

Rafie

#102

Rafie said:

@Excep7ional "I also understand you are Nintendo fan, but you undermine the PS4 greatly. Ps4 added in some nice features that weren't on Ps3. Streaming, game sharing..."

That guy bashes the other 2 systems each chance he gets. He tries to justify the Wii U and what it can do by calling the rivals "low end techs" and/or inferior outdated PC's. No mention of how even lower the Wii U is to them. I never take his posts serious because he's not at all very objective. @JaxonH is pretty level headed. He just gets frustrated with the Nintendo bashing. However, he doesn't go out of his way to bash the other systems.

I personally love the Gamepad. I know others don't, but it offers an intriguing experience to a console that hasn't been done before. The Wii U is a great system. Just hate how bad it's doing in the market.

ToniK

#103

ToniK said:

To be honest, I wouldn't have bought the U if it was just an HD console with a regular controller. I've also been completely happy with it. I think the best thing with the original DS' second screen was just the map/inventory thing and the same goes with the gamepad. I HATE "pausing" the game to check the map or inventory. It's so much easier to check the gamepad and/or moving items on the touchscreen. Also stuff like hacking in Deus Ex was awesome and of course ZombiU.

That's all I need and pretty much all I want. To me, there is no problem so I am not too interested in the solution. Maybe I'm just unusual but I definitely love the gamepad and seriously think it's the best thing to happen in gaming in a long time.

electrolite77

#104

electrolite77 said:

@banacheck

"So if someone doesn't agree the Gamepad Is the second coming or something, you must hate Nintendo? Are you people for real."

Welcome to the Nintendo Life comments threads!

CountBleck456

#105

CountBleck456 said:

@JaxonH

I should have made my point clearer. They know now that it is a new system, but only after I explained to them. One of my friends thought that the gamepad could be used on the Wii and made the same mistake twice, which is where "several times" came from. The point I was making was that if I had to explain it to them, then clearly other people are still confused as to what the gamepad actually is.

Thats-what-she

#106

Thats-what-she said:

The Gamepad is awesome. Its intended purpose of providing offline gaming is excellent and my favorite feature of the Wii U.

zool

#107

zool said:

The comment in the article above which says 'it was still difficult to occupy the TV screen when you are playing alone'........
Does Nintendo think every home is limited to just one TV. In most homes I would think there is a TV screen for every games console, and a lot of consoles are in bedrooms and not in the lounge.

What is Nintendo talking about when they say....
' two screens or a mechanism in which there is a screen only one person can see, and combined these propositions to develop Wii U. However, I feel it is our fault that we failed to ensure that these features were explicit to our consumers'.

They did NOT fail, consumers know all about the additional screen on the gamepad. But the consumers have not bought into the gamepad. It is to limited. It was developed and added to the Wii u because it could be, not because there was a use for it. The concept of a killer game using a gamepad should have come first. Now we have the gamepad with no real use for it.

One family gathered around one tv set with four of five separate remotes all playing Nintendo games, may have worked in part with the Wii, but trying to replicate it again for the Wii u has not worked.

Wii fit or a few dance games, were ok for family fun, but trying to sell Super Mario 3d World as a family fun game, I think has driven away more serious gamers from buying a WII u and Mario.

Ben_Rage_V2

#108

Ben_Rage_V2 said:

This is the same old song. I would love to see games that give me an experience that is impossible to replicate on another platform. I loved Skyward Sword, but that nunchuck attachment didn't go far enough. Perhaps Nintendo can create a peripheral that sort of straps the gamepad to your wrist where is can be used as a shield. When you bring the game pad close to you; it soft pauses the game so you can go through your inventory.

Look, I'm not saying that my idea is necessarily a viable control option, but my point is to think creatively. There is so much untapped potential in the gamepad, and it is long overdue that Nintendo gives those of us that have not bought a Wii U an incentive to purchase one.

Right now my PC either performs as well if not better than the next-gen consoles. Mods alone keep me glued to my PC. Maybe Nintendo could give us the toolset for some of their games, so that the community can create content that extends the life of its titles. Can you imagine being able to create new attractions in Nintendo Land based off of Nintendo's franchises? A regular controller is not a viable way to do that, but a touch screen controller could do it no problem. I drool at the possibility of modding a game like Animal Crossing. Or how about user created quests and dungeons in Zelda?

Ben_Rage_V2

#109

Ben_Rage_V2 said:

@Excep7ional $1000 for a PC is only necessary if you play at a resolution higher than 1080p. My PC cost $600 with tax, and it outperforms next-gen consoles. $600 dollars is cheaper than either next-gen consoles when you calculate the cost of paying to play on online over time. It's actually several hundred dollars cheaper if you own the console for six-seven years.

JaxonH

#110

JaxonH said:

@zool
Think what they meant was the person with the Gamepad can play a game no one else can see. Unlike a tv.

Right off the bat, off screen play and asymmetrical gameplay are uses for the Gamepad. So actually, it wasn't just put in because they could. There are many other uses two screens offer. Nintendo's been fond of two screens forever. Game&Watch, GC/GBA connectivity, DS, 3DS and now Wii U. We need to stop acting like this is a new concept, or that it's benefits haven't been proven for decades.

It's a fact. Two screens are better than one. Even for off screen play, it's worth having. But we DO have games showcasing a dozen other uses. Idk why people keep saying it hasn't been used. Like heck it hasn't. I've got 35 games on Wii U, most of them using the Gamepad for something other than off screen play. Rayman Legends, Wii Sports Club, W101, Pikmin 3, Sonic Transformed, Deus Ex, Windwaker HD, etc...

People should already know what to expect with two screens from the DS and 3DS. It's nothing jaw dropping, it's just small additions and enhancements, but they can really make a game much more enjoyable. Sometimes we get an experience not possible on one screen, like Mario & Luigi Dream Team or Wii Sports Club, but usually it just enhances, with a map, touch hacking, etc. But the Gamepad actually offers MORE than two screens ever has, because of off screen play and asymmetrical gameplay. But people keep saying no games use it. They do use it, people are just expecting too much.

It's the little things it brings that makes it great

zool

#111

zool said:

@JaxonH ....its the 'little' things that make us think the gamepad has no real value and is just an expensive add-on or gimmick. Is Rayman really better on the Wii u because a few bits of some levels have to be played looking away from the HD graphics on the big screen to the smaller one? I don't think do.
Blowing into the gamepad to blow snow of tree tops in Super Mario 3d World...... Is that the best Nintendo can do. Is that the little things?
If Nintendo are going to waste more money trying to utilise the gamepad into more games rather than spend the money making new and better games, the Wii u is doomed.

JaxonH

#112

JaxonH said:

@zool

Yes, I do think Rayman Legends is better. Have you actually played the Murphy Level challenges? They're super addictive, and a nice change of pace from traditional platforming.

And as far as Wii U being doomed- it doesn't matter. Because "doomed" really means "doomed financially". And "doomed financially" doesn't stop me, you or anyone else from enjoying the console and playing the games. But the Wii U's fortunes are not dependent on using the gamepad for clever uses in games (which nonetheless IS being done). To be honest, that probably won't make a split of difference either way. If the Wii U fails to sell, it will be for other reasons. Most people who buy consoles are the "uninformed" and do not go to gaming sites, read reviews or any of that stuff. And they're not gonna know the intricate details of how the gamepad is used for each game. So in the end, it's really just for our entertainment and quality of enjoyment.

Blowing the snow off trees has nothing to do with the second screen. Any controller with a mic can do that. So no, that's not the best the can do. It's already been stated several times now what the Gamepad has been used for. I can list the games and it's various uses again if you'd like a reminder.

Consider this- the Wii U Gamepad is being used for everything we've seen the second screen on DS/3DS be used for, and then some. Nobody complained about 3D Land not using the second screen in some weird way. Nobody complained that Fire Emblem Awakening used it for a map and inventory, and nobody complained about Zelda using it in the same manner as Windwaker HD. In fact, the uses of the DS/3DS second screen has not only been widely accepted, it has become a staple of Nintendo gaming. It is expected nowadays. Nobody wants to go back to the days of single screen gaming on handhelds.

Therefore, if the uses of the DS/3DS second screens have been unanimously accepted, then what's the problem with the Gamepad- a home console second screen that offers EVEN MORE than that of handhelds (off screen play and asymettrical gameplay- which is not possible on a handheld)?

The gamepad mirrors the dual screen functionality of 3DS. And everyone's been satisfied with that. It's added benefit has been proven time and again. So why the uproar over the Gamepad? Well, I believe it's because people like to regurgitate what they hear other people say. Some Nintendo-hating journalist says the gamepad sucks and offers nothing, and now we've got a thousand easily influenced gamers saying exactly that (even though they don't have an issue with the 3DS second screen, which makes absolutely NO sense. If you have an issue with one, you should have an issue with any second screen, ESPECIALLY the 3DS considering it's bottom screen does even less than the gamepad).

And here's a few examples to prove the Gamepad offers more than the 3DS dual screens:

ZombiU- can't scan one screen in front of the other on the 3DS
Wii Sports Club- can't put one screen on floor for ball and club with other facing you for the fairway
Sonic Racing Transformed- can't have two people race, each on one of the screens
Entire Wii U Library- can't separate screens with unique content on each screen (but you CAN with Wii U off-screen play)

So, if the 3DS second screen adds to the experience, how does the Gamepad NOT add even more? It's done everything 3DS does, and then some.

zool

#113

zool said:

@JaxonH your comparison with the 3ds is not a reasonable comparison. The 3ds was designed as a multi purpose gameing handheld with two screens one being for stylus touch games and the other a normal games screen. Two separate methods of game play.

The Wii u is a totally different concept. As you previously said Nintendo has a history of building. consoles with two screens.....handheld consoles. On paper the gamepad may have seemed a good idea but it has become an expensive add on to the Wii u with no real purpose.

It could only play a few games soley on the gamepad, the range away from the Wii u is very limited and Wii games were not playable on the gamepad using its controls. Maybe you have enjoyed a few of the touch levels in Rayman, but you would have still enjoyed them on the playststion without touch.

Just because I think the Wii u' future would be better with out the gamepad, doesn't mean I didn't want it to work and be successful. But it does seem to have floped.

What is Nintendo asking £250 for. A Wii with HD graphics a small selection of good but not great games and the gamepad, which has yet to prove itself.

Cut the cost by going back to a normal controller and produce some great rather than just good games. Forget the concept that Nintendo is for families and think 'gamers'. And Ds games on the Wii u may keep a few gamers happy but it won't sell Wii u's.

And if they really want us to play Wii u games on a small screen use the 3ds.

JaxonH

#114

JaxonH said:

@zool

Well, I do hear what you're saying, and I've considered your point of view carefully. But here's what I would say in response:

First of all, almost every single Wii U game has off screen play. In fact, I can't think of even one that doesn't. I'm sure there are a few, but it's a very small percentage.

As for the range, it doesn't need more range than that. It's enough that you can play games on the gamepad on the couch just like you would on the TV, only the TV can be used for something else. It's not meant to be uber-mobile. But its range is enough to be wireless, just like any controller. It reaches anywhere within about 30 feet, which covers my entire old apartment, and all of upstairs where I'm at now. That's enough. Would I LIKE to have more range? Of course. Is it necessary for what they were trying to achieve? No. It's just there so you can switch to gamepad play while someone else uses the TV.

Now, is the Gamepad an expensive add on? Absolutely. It probably adds about a hundred bucks to the cost of the console. There's no denying that. But, I would argue it's worth it. People all the time complain about a system with less features, and always say "I would've rather paid the extra money and had such and such". Well, there you go. They didn't cheap out- they gave us a second screen so they could continue the staple of dual-screen gaming they started all those years ago. And it wasn't just handhelds. The GC/GBA connectivity foreshadowed their future intentions.

What are we getting for $300? Well, I would say just as much as any other console. I mean, PS3 still sells for $250, which is only $50 less than Wii U and has no Gamepad, and only a year of future support left in the console. It costs what it costs. $300 is about right for a home console. I mean, the 3DS costs $200, and that's a HANDHELD. Of course the HD home console experience WITH Gamepad is gonna run an extra hundred bucks. I don't see that being an issue. You'll pay that for ANY console.

Cutting back costs and going to a regular controller isn't on the table, and I strongly believe it would be the last mistake Nintendo ever made. They've shown us the added benefits of a second screen. Stylus play may have been the primary purpose for DS games, but the second screen has evolved to be more than that now. Real time maps/hud are commonplace and expected nowadays. Games like Mario & Luigi Dream Team and Kid Icarus Uprising are shining examples of what a 2nd screen can bring to the table. Wii U has examples too. Wii Sports Club and Rayman Legends for example. The gamepad was proven before the Wii U ever hit store shelves, because this is not the first dual screen gaming device. And sure, you could enjoy ANY game without a 2nd screen, but you can enjoy them more with it. Like I said, it adds to the experience. It's not THE experience.

Do I believe Nintendo should abandon the concept of being for families, and ditch the stupid ads? Absolutely. I think it's getting them no where. I think you're right. Focusing on gamers is what made them famous in the first place, and I think it's what will sustain their business in the future. And no, DS games probably won't sell Wii U's. But every waking feature doesn't have to "sell Wii U's". It's the total package that sells, and all those nice little features, like DS games, add to that, just like the gamepad adds to that.

I have about 35 physical and another 20 digital games on Wii U. Most every single physical retail game uses the Gamepad for something other than off screen play. Could those games exist without that 2nd screen integration? Sure, although the experiences would be hampered, greatly in some cases. I like touch hacking, two screen puzzles, real time maps, and real time resource management. I like a de-cluttered HUD on the TV, asymmetrical gameplay, environment extention, and 2nd screen scanner/camera function. I like off-screen play, touch screen controls, hand drawn messages, and on-the-fly inventory management.

I like what the Gamepad brings to home console gaming, just as I like what the 2nd screen brings to handheld gaming. If you own a Wii U, and have actually played a span of games for the console, you should know the various uses the Gamepad has been utilized for thus far. I'm not sure what more people want? I'm not sure people even KNOW what they want. I think they just thought a second screen was going to be this mind-blowing experience used uniquely in every single game, when it's actually just a subtle addition that's used when appropriate- but the subtle improvements bring a lot of bang for the buck. Streamlined convenience and unique gameplay interaction matters. I do recognize that about 5 of Nintendo's major 1st party titles will not use the Gamepad for more than off screen play. But there's not much that it CAN be used for in games like 3D World, DKC and Smash. The games that it works for, we'll see it used. Like in Zelda Windwaker HD, Wonderful 101, Wii Sports Club, X, SMT x Fire Emblem, Watch Dogs, etc..

Excep7ional

#115

Excep7ional said:

@Rafie I understand preference, but he acts as if Sony and Microsoft threw sand into his face. That kind of Fanboyism is the reason why I don't talk about games as much as I used to. It's annoying.

Everyone who owns a Wii U says it's great and I believe it. When a few more games that appeal to me come out for it I will definitely pick one up down the line.

P.S: Dude I saw you on the comment section of a random KOF XIII video, lol. You into fighters?

@Ben_Rage_V2 Well I guess I stand corrected about the convenience, and I won't argue the fact that PC's out preform consoles, that's known by everyone. The reason why I will never go to PC though, is because some developers are shaky when it comes to supporting it. Sometimes third party titles won't even go to PC, and some take forever to even get ported. MK9 was recently ported over to PC when the game has been out for years, SFxT got an update patch for pc like 8 months after its console counterpart, and GTA 5 is still in question if it's even going to PC at all. At least with consoles I know for a fact I'll be getting steady third party support along with good exclusives of my choice.

JaxonH

#117

JaxonH said:

@electrolite77

My post was in response to this original statement:

"After reading that Nintendo are creating gimmicks for the sake of it, even tho it adds nothing at all apart from playing without the need of a TV. Isn't that why people buy handhelds, being portable without needing a TV. Some of us own our own TV's or does Nintendo not get that, and not only that people buy consoles to play there games on TV. Nintendo lost it."

The fact that a person is willing to spontaneously conclude a legitimate feature is a "gimmick without purpose" based on some random paragraph spoken about the Gamepad by Iwata, shows that they have no interest in evaluating the product for themselves. If something is of little value, it is because it brings nothing to the table, not because some random person says X and Y about it. Using Iwata's statement as proof of lack of value is shoddy logic, because his statement has no bearing on the actual performance of said feature.

Furthermore, ignoring the 2nd screen benefits seen in games like Wonderful 101, ZombiU, Wii Sports Club, Rayman Legends, Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate and Pikmin 3 (among others), and saying it "adds nothing at all aside from playing without the need of a TV", shows a clear and present bias against the facts.

Finally, concluding that "Nintendo's lost it" because of their decision to include a 2nd screen for off-TV play (as well as other features) while ignoring the fact other console manufacturers are striving to achieve that very same thing, shows that they have no interest in a fair and balanced approach. Perhaps I was wrong for accusing this good gentleman of "hating" the company, but with statements like these, it's not hard to understand how I came to that conclusion.

Rafie

#118

Rafie said:

@Excep7ional Yeah man he's like that. That's why I don't pay his post any mind...anymore. Anyway, this is coming from a guy who has ALL consoles. The Wii U is a very good console. I'm a bit surprised at the negativity it gets. At the same time, Nintendo could have done some things better with it. It doesn't negate that the console isn't great though.

Oh and yes I LOVE fighting games. You should see me on the SSF4, KOF, Tekken, Injustice, Killer Instinct, UMVC, etc vids on YouTube. I'm there every day. :) So more than likely you did see my comments and such on a KOF vid.

Ben_Rage_V2

#119

Ben_Rage_V2 said:

@Excep7ional You only offered two examples of third party games that either do not appear on PC (GTA5) or of a game that came to PC, but at a later time. The big selling point for PC for me is third party titles. Mass Effect, Fall-out, Elder Scrolls, Bioshock, Far Cry, Assassin's Creed and the list goes on forever literally. Every once in a while a game may come later like Alan Wake for example, but the definitive version of any such game will be the PC version. That being said, your original argument was cost, not convenience and not third party games. And I was simply pointing out a somewhat common misconception that PC gaming is this huge investment. Unless you are playing on multiple monitors or with resolutions higher than 1080p, the cost of PC gaming can be competitive with consoles, therefore making you original point invalid. But as stated in my opening point, I also disagree with the idea that PC gaming somehow misses out on 3rd party games.

Excep7ional

#120

Excep7ional said:

@Rafie That's so awesome. Always nice to meet new people who are also interested in fighters as much as I am. I played all of them and loved them all. I tried getting into KOF but the netcode was terrible so I had to skip out on that sadly. The main fighting game I play is SSF4 AE but I'm waiting for Ultra to come out to get back into it. Do you play on pad or Arcade Stick?

@Ben_Rage_V2 My original argument was about cost AND convenience. Since you proved me wrong on the misconception of the cost of PC gaming I left it alone because there was nothing more to argue. What I said about Third party titles was just me telling you why I wouldn't get it, but again you proved me wrong. I wasn't arguing per se but was just trying to have a conversation for the sake of it.

Rafie

#121

Rafie said:

@Excep7ional My Nintendo ID- Rafie82....PSN ID- Rafie27.....and Gamertag for Xbox-RAFIE82. Same for Steam as well. As you can see, I don't discriminate. The only thing I don't know by heart is my 3DS friend code. Hahaha

Anyway, yes I absolutely adore fighters. I'm not as good as I use to be. I would say I'm pretty scrubbish at the moment. However, hitting the lab for some training never hurts. I've been playing fighters for well over 22 years. I love them. KOF is a good game, but I agree with you when it comes to the netcode. SNK needs to do something about that. As far as what I prefer to play with. I'm a pad guy, but I do own 3 sticks. I just have to get use to them again. Funny thing is...if I'm playing at a cabinet, I'm good. With a stick individually....I'm not so great at all. LOL What about you?

zool

#122

zool said:

@JaxonH
I agree with most if your comments about the Wii u, up to a point. I can live with the gamepad and its limitations. But the Wii u is not selling very well and I don't think making more gamepad specific games will reverse this.
I have bought every Nintendo console since the N64' and all, apart from the Wii u on the day of release. I have never owned a PlayStation or xbox, I have remained loyal to Nintendo. But the Wii u seemed rushed, to get it to the public before the new PlayStation or Xbox and the line of new games was disappointing to say the least. For the first time I did not bother getting a new console on release day. I left it six months. I can understand why gamers are not bothered about owning the Wii u.
Having said the Wii u was rushed Nintendo did keep us waiting a long time before we could play Mario in HD.

Nintendo dominates the hand held market and maybe that is where their future is. But Sony and Microsoft have bigger better and more expensive consoles and Nintendo should go the other way; a simple inexpensive console with a simple controller and lots of what Nintendo do best, games.

At the right price every PlayStation and Xbox home would have a Wii u as a second console just to play A Nintendo game. I only hope that Nintendo are not digging them self into a deeper hole.

SKYW4LK3R

#123

SKYW4LK3R said:

I think they should bundle a classic controller pro with every Wii U! That way the system would have multiplayer potential right out the box and developers could make stabdard controlled games with the gamepad as a cool add on feature...

TheAdrock

#124

TheAdrock said:

@Mr_G, Hey Nintendo, give this man a job. 3DS as an alternate Wii U controller is a f***ing great idea.
I'm fine with the Gamepad, but its Nintendo's job to make it do something awesome which so far hasn't happened. Its the perfect tool for total home theater control, browsing TV shows etc, but TVii just sucks and pretty much doesn't work. Where's the add-on to make the U function as a DRV? Netflix and Hulu is fine, but what about the 200 other streaming services: HBO Go, Crackle, Pandora, YouTube (doesn't work), Vudu, MGo, et al. Chromecast is $30 and has access to everything in the world. Look at volume of media available on Sony. Why is this hard for Nintendo to understand? To get people interested N needs to add value.

Excep7ional

#125

Excep7ional said:

@Rafie My PSN ID is Excep7ional, I do have a 360 but my gold ran out and I don't even remember my Gamertag to be honest. I haven't been on there in ages lol. Mind if I add you on PSN? You will rarely see me on though because there aren't any games out right now that I want to play. Once ULTRA comes out that'll change.

I'm a pad guy. I would love to play on Stick but I really don't feel like dishing out the money for one. I might buy a stick for cheap and buy customized parts but even that is still expensive. I have been playing fighters for around 18 years now. I still remember my very first fighting game I played was Street Fighter 2 for the gameboy Pocket, lmao. But yeah Lab time is an easy cure for scrubyness. I'm going to have to get some lab time in myself.

Trikeboy

#126

Trikeboy said:

Here's the pitch to save Wii U, Pokemon Snap 2. Controlled using the motion controls in the game pad only. The buttons are used for the Pokeflute and other items. Full range of motion available. The game pad is essentially a camera in the users hands.

Luffymcduck

#127

Luffymcduck said:

@Trikeboy
Pokemon Snap 2 mentioned, Nintendo, make it happen.
What I want to see is more multiplayer games using the unique gamepad. So far the most fun I've had with WiiU multiplayer are with Nintendo Land and... Tank Tank Tank's My Kong mode.

electrolite77

#128

electrolite77 said:

@JaxonH

Yeah fair point chief. There are extremities on both sides of the debate where....well where most things are concerned....but especially Nintendo. They seem to get people's blood flowing for whatever reason.

There's plenty of debate about what the Gamepad has added to the Wii U especially when weighed against what it adds to the cost of manufacturing the machine and it's usefulness as a marketing tool. But you're right that it certainly can't be dismissed out of hand or used as evidence of Nintendo losing their minds. I wouldn't rule out them eventually coming up with something that makes it seem indispensable.

BlackStar9000

#129

BlackStar9000 said:

@FullbringIchigo How does that make any sense? they just have to make GAMES IN GENERAL, and make the gamepad an after thought, BLOPS 2 doesnt need the pad, but its fun to have dual splitscreen with it.

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