News Article

Less Than 5% of Those Polled by the Game Developers Conference Have Wii U Plans

Posted by Thomas Whitehead

Under 2% for 3DS

GDC (Game Developers Conference) 2014 takes place from 17th - 21st March in San Francisco, a gathering of thousands of companies and individuals to demonstrate, discuss and debate the current trends and patterns in the development industry. As is the norm, ahead of this year's event the organisers have polled "more than 2,600 North American game developers" on a number of topics to identify the current state of play within that group.

A natural question for these developers to face is which platforms they're targeting with upcoming releases, with the opportunity to select multiple options as appropriate. The table below shows that, at present, the lion's share are focused on smart devices, PC and Mac. In home consoles PS4 and Xbox One lead the way, with the Wii U picked by just 4.42%; the scenario for 3DS is far from pleasing, with just 1.9% actively planning to include Nintendo's current handheld in their next project.

Other highlighted trends aren't particularly surprising. The number of those polled and the increasingly welcome self-publishing options have contributed to 64% saying they are not working with a publisher on their next project. Funding threw up a small surprise, depending on your perspective, as most have stated they are finding the money for their projects from company funds or personal savings, with a modest 10.77% utilising crowdfunding.

That first table showing the comparatively low numbers of those working on Wii U and 3DS projects is a little dispiriting and, to a degree, not too surprising. Like all polls it's not absolute — though it is a large group — but does reflect that, for some, Nintendo's home console is still not quite worth the investment or risk; the 3DS has a tough task due to its relatively isolated and unique setup and architecture. The positive perspective is that Nintendo's handheld is performing well with small numbers of high quality games, while recent weeks and months have shown that download-only developers are warming to the Wii U — welcoming eShop policies along with the Unity licensing and Nintendo Web Framework support are helping. There are, despite these poll results, a promising number of games coming to the home console's eShop, in particular.

With all of that in mind, let us know what you think in the comments below.

[via gamasutra.com]

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User Comments (206)

johndevine

#1

johndevine said:

Vita has a higher percentage than 3DS.
Which seems daft.

Personally, I don't care. Nintendo still make the best games in the world.
They will not be creating games for other consoles.

XCWarrior

#2

XCWarrior said:

I get the WiiU, but the 3DS sold more systems than anything else in 2013. Why would you not be trying to develop for it? Is the tech that difficult to work with? My gosh people. There is no money in smart phones...

Granted these are mostly the minor leaguers of developers. The other poll questions should have been, "Are you making a Flappy Bird clone." Answer probably would have been around 40% yes.

unrandomsam

#4

unrandomsam said:

It isn't surprising not many of those polled are going to do anything for the 3DS as from what I can gather the same terms as always still exist. (i.e you need physical premises and all that stuff).

ThomasBW84Admin

#5

ThomasBW84 said:

@XCWarrior I think maybe one issue with the 3DS is that it's 'unique' to develop for, which is great for those diving in but, in a world where devs want to release on loads of systems, is awkward. You just have to look at the growing range of DL games that have seen life on PC landing on Vita to see that it's a little easier for porting.

As a snapshot this data isn't great, but we are seeing some promising projects for the Wii U eShop in particular, while the 3DS is in a position where less of a higher quality should work nicely.

unrandomsam

#6

unrandomsam said:

@XCWarrior The same method Renegade Kid uses for the 3DS still works on ad supported apps on smartphones. You just need loads of apps. It is hard to make money with one really good paid game on mobile unless you have an existing brand.

Warbeard

#7

Warbeard said:

SmartPhone and Browser being the big winners? People ignoring the 3DS is their own loss with that massive installbase.

zeldazero

#8

zeldazero said:

I'd like to know what developers were at this conference because we all know the 3DS will have more releases this year than any home console, possibly combined..

WiiULoveSquid

#9

WiiULoveSquid said:

They know that Nintendo eShoppers are discriminating buyers and like stuff that's within a Nintendo-ish realm. For the devs in eshop that have delivered quality games that appeal to Nintendo gamers, most of them have done well enough to plan more for eShop releases.

But throw in negative press about Wii U and its sales and 3DS to an extent a while back and the left over mindset from the Wii shop days, it could make sense that maybe a lot of devs are looking to the Sony/PC gamers.

unrandomsam

#10

unrandomsam said:

@Warbeard The cost of entry is really high that is the problem. Like 20000$ vs say for Apple $1500 (If you don't already have the Apple hardware). PC and Vita are both basically free.

WingedSnagret

#11

WingedSnagret said:

Barely any outside devs are thinking of Wii U? Imagine that. /rolls eyes

The fact that the 3DS, the far more successful platform of the two, having an even lower percentage is odd though.

Nintenjoe64

#12

Nintenjoe64 said:

From all the doom and gloom we hear, I am surprised you can find anyone to admit they are developing for Wii U. Also, who is still making Wii games?

Does anyone know what the Japanese equivalent looks like?

DualWielding

#13

DualWielding said:

I guess only western developers were interviewed, I"m sure lots of japanese developers have plans for the 3DS

DualWielding

#14

DualWielding said:

I guess only western developers were interviewed, I"m sure lots of japanese developers have plans for the 3DS

MrGawain

#15

MrGawain said:

This is a bit skewed, as it counts in all the little smartphone game companies as well- there are still 115 companies with plans for the Wii U, and we don't know how many of them are big American boys, and how many are e-shop creators. The real number is the Wii U has a 5th of the developers of what the PS4 has, and a 4th of the Xbone- both which lag behind the Smartphone Appers. This data doesn't include Japan, Canada, the UK or France. And the majority of the 3ds software is coming from Japan anyway.

These numbers don't mean anything without details.

shingi_70

#16

shingi_70 said:

@johndevine

Vita has a strong per unit attach rate that's mostly all digital. Its also easier to port a game to the Vita from the PC or other PlayStation Systems. The 3DS is really unqie usually meaning more money and time out into porting the game. Its a difficult proposition becuase if you hit it big on the eshop you can pull in bank, but for the sane cost you could target more platforms from the outset.

User1988

#17

User1988 said:

Meh, I'm sure these were all Western developers. All of the best games for Nintendo systems are Japanese localizations anyway. Occasionally there will be a game I'm interested in from a Western dev (basically Bethesda and no one else) but for the most part I just don't care about western games any more.

MJKOP

#18

MJKOP said:

It's lazy in my opinion. No desire or will to put the effort in, try something different or unique. That's what Nintendo do with their consoles, to give us potentially new and exciting experiences and they're getting punished for it now, and therefore so are we. Keep doing what you do Nintendo, in my opinion anyway

SkywardCrowbar

#19

SkywardCrowbar said:

Devs want to have a super easy process of porting games. Nintendo hardware is unique, and is therefore very difficult to port to for lazy devs.

I'm not particularly concerned about this since there's so many nice looking projects coming to Wii U from indie devs and the 3DS has a steady stream of extremely high quality content.

WaLzgiStaff

#23

WaLzgi said:

~5% is still about roughly 130 developers, so it's not all bad.

3DS is still getting great stuff regardless of this data, so I'm not worried at all

SuperSammy64

#26

SuperSammy64 said:

Wow. Over 50% for mobile devices? That's just sad. That's not where true games are. I understand PC, but mobile devices? Come on. Nintendo deserves better than this. I don't understand how PS Vita can have a higher percentage than 3DS when PS Vita games sell much less! The 3DS is one of the best-selling consoles out there! What are developers thinking? :(

Oh well. Nintendo makes tons of good games for their consoles. Nintendo makes some of the best games out there. :)

Evenmoresteven

#27

Evenmoresteven said:

I get the Wii U, since the install base is low (even though the attach rate is very high), but I don't get the 3DS. The 3DS has a very high install base, and growing. I hate how prevalent mobile gaming is. There a handful of enjoyable experience on mobile, but most of it is the worst shovel-ware imaginable. Worse than worst of Wii's shovel-ware.

TenTen

#28

TenTen said:

The title is a tad misleading, as the chart represents what platform the company's NEXT game will be released on, not the next few games.

shingi_70

#29

shingi_70 said:

@MrGawain

Like they said its from north American mostly indie developers which are the bulk of what you'd see on services like the eshop.

On that note this was the survey from last years GDC Europe.
Untitled

Jazzer94

#30

Jazzer94 said:

3DS has plenty of games this year so I have no idea why some people are getting freaked out.

tovare

#31

tovare said:

I read the charts as "more than 25 percent of developers with real budgets has Wii U plans".

bizcuthammer

#32

bizcuthammer said:

To be fair this is just a poll for NA devs. If Japanese devs were asked, the 3DS percentage would be much higher. WiiU probably not so much. I'm surprised it was as high as it is... Must be mostly indie devs answering yes to that one. Third parties with AAA games wont touch WiiU with a thirty foot stick. It's where their preciously invested budget dollars go to die, so why even mess with it? Even the greatest WiiU ports like Need for Speed Most Wanted and Deus Ex have sold dismally. Unless you're making a platformer or kart racer, its statistically proven that WiiU owners wont buy your game. And i dont want to hear the 'they leave key features like DLC and online modes out' complaints. Thats not the case in NFS:MW and a handful of others that still sold terribly on WiiU.

The truth is, most WiiU owners bought a WiiU for Nintendo games and games that are like Nintendo games (Sonic, Rayman). They are mostly a minority within gaming culture, as most gamers prefer third party games like CoD, Assassin's Creed and Bioshock over first party stuff. Even on PS3/360 the best selling games arent Sony and MS first party stuff. Uncharted and Gears of War sell a fraction of the amount GTA V, CoD Ghosts and Minecraft do. Only on Nintendo systems are the best sellers always first party games. 3rd parties have noticed this, and are going to follow the cash stream. WiiU/3DS offer significant risk with very little chance of reward.

MrWalkieTalkie

#33

MrWalkieTalkie said:

PC & Smartphones allow literally ANYTHING. No matter how poorly made, so no surprise most people would flock to those devices. And in the end, 3DS still has a fantastic library that isn't going change anytime soon and Wii U has a fantastic line-up of quality indie titles. So no worries.

PC & Smartphones have been most popular amongst devs for years, and that hasn't stop the quality stream of games coming to Nintendo platforms.

TrueWiiMaster

#34

TrueWiiMaster said:

Strange that the Vita, with so few units sold, would have more support than the 3DS. That said, the Wii U is getting dozens of indie games in the coming months. If that's what "less than 5%" translates to, I'm fine with that.

andreoni79

#35

andreoni79 said:

Then... "More Than 95% of Those Polled by the Game Developers Conference Won't Earn Anything From Me"

Lance168

#37

Lance168 said:

In my opinion: SO WHAT? We're in NINTENDO territory! Home to first party nintendo content! And this is only North American!

Peach64

#38

Peach64 said:

The 3DS was the highest selling piece of hardware in the US and UK last year, but how many titles for it came in the top 10 highest selling software of the year? 3DS has a very low attach rate, and it's pretty much just Nintendo stuff that sells with a few exceptions.

I'm not that bothered by this. Nintendo consoles have been for Nintendo games to me for over 10 years.

MamaLuigi

#39

MamaLuigi said:

GDC does not represent 99.9% of every game developer out there. Many of those attending are pawns doing work for the major corporations, not indie or small developers.

DarkCoolEdge

#42

DarkCoolEdge said:

I find the 3DS rate more troublesome. Vita's is more than three times than 3DS' although it has a much smaller install base.
The lack of Unity support might be the reason but it still hurts.

On the other hand, most of the developers plan to release for smartphones and tablets and we all know the quality of most of those platforms games...

Yorumi

#43

Yorumi said:

Chances are with such a high percentage for smart phones, and a total unwillingness to use 3ds, they're not making quality games. We have the reports of various companies' games outselling other platforms combined when they're on nintendo consoles.

The thing is there's a certain quality expected, you can't just throw trash at a nintendo system and expect it to sell. That's the method a lot of developers use with phone development. Throw a bunch of cheap junk out there and hope to sell enough to cover development costs. It's not that there's no quality it's just that about 99% of the games are worthless.

Artwark

#44

Artwark said:

The only reason why PC and Smartphones are huge in this poll is because everyone has them. If you remove these two little thing or the fact that games can't be played on them, I'm pretty sure most devs would work on Wii U and 3DS.

mhoving

#45

mhoving said:

Our games mostly come from Japan, so this means nothing. The only interesting games that the West provides for me would be an Indie game from time to time and hopefully a few Western RPGs... even tough they are best played on PC.

The only thing I am a bit saddened by is the amount of smartphone and browser games that are being developed. There are substantial games on smartphones, but I cannot believe that all of these developers are aiming for quality, probably less than one percent that will actually try to make a real quality game.

Nico07

#46

Nico07 said:

@sonicfanatic These numbers dont mean much to Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft owners as the developers polledat this conference were mainly IOS and Android developers. IOS/Android are not the way of the future, so these numbers don't mean a thing. Only that those in attendace must have a wish to cash in on some Flappybird style game.

Yorumi

#47

Yorumi said:

@mhoving it's the current fad market. Remember a few years ago facebook games were the future of gaming and all the console manufacturers might as well shut down. There was a fameville clone around every corner and now there's a candy crush clone around every corner.

unrandomsam

#48

unrandomsam said:

@DarkCoolEdge If you make an XNA game and put it on the Vita right even if you want to make it exclusive to the Vita most of the work could be done just normally on a PC with no costs. (There are no need to rush or even tell anybody about it until you are ready).

You cannot just do a bit whenever it is like paying for a holiday home every day until you finish it.

TruenoGT

#50

TruenoGT said:

2600 developer entities or individual developers? If it's entities, most consoles don't even have 1000 games, let alone 1000 unique companies making games. Even if it's individuals, that's still over 100 people working on Wii U games, which could easily be from several teams. Given that this is North America which has never been strong on Nintendo development, this isn't bad, especially for a slow selling console. Unless it's just everybody from Retro or NST... that would be a bit disappointing. :P

unrandomsam

#51

unrandomsam said:

@Yorumi I know plenty about programming. Not games programming but doing it right is the same regardless.

Microsoft themselves don't like XNA any more either.

EPrice97

#53

EPrice97 said:

I really think it's important for everyone to understand that the majority of these developers are "shovelware" maufacturers. Come on... My biggest Wii U opinion is, Do I want 10 games per month scoring 2-3/5 in reviews? Or do I want a few eshop gems per month and then Nintendo's big hitters once every month or two?

EPrice97

#54

EPrice97 said:

The other consoles get around 5 advertised games per month.. and then what, 2 or 3 games per year that get maybe 8 or 9/10 reviews? Everybody relax. Go 100% every 9/10 Nintendo game you have, pick up a few eshop deals, and it's like the drought never happens! That's how I live. If anything, less games make me appreciate and complete the games I do have!

rjejr

#55

rjejr said:

@TenTen - Glad it's not just me.

next game (the word next is even quoted in the question) is NOT the same as "plans". A good Wii U or 3DS game could take a year or 2 or 3, a PC or app game a few weeks, so of course their NEXT game is going to be on PC or iOS/Android. that's mostly a fact of game development time.

And of course this is limited to US companies, so there's that. Though honestly I wouldn't be planning a Wii U game right now, PS4 has practically outsold it in 3 months. And the 3DS probably has about a year or 2 left before new hardware gets announced, and I'm not competing w/ Nintendo on that system.

Guybrush20X6

#56

Guybrush20X6 said:

Smartphone games will always have one major problem, you have to put your greasy fingers in front of the action almost constantly. plus the 3DS and Vita doesn't get nearly as hot when handling anything more complex than a webpage.

Yorumi

#57

Yorumi said:

@unrandomsam no you've demonstrated you really don't. xna is basically just compact .net. They basically just packaged a version of .net with more built in rendering functions instead of having developers go find some of the pre-built libraries and including them as references.

It's nothing all that special and it's mainly an attempt to do what they did with directx, which is force everyone to buy windows. It only runs and systems with .net, and like with directx microsoft isn't exactly handing that out to their competition.

Every one of these topics related to game development you keep sounding like an advertisement for xna, and it's just not as special as you think it is.

Viagro

#58

Viagro said:

If you want to develop for any Nintendo system you have to apply here: http://www.warioworld.com/apply/

The minimum start up cost is apparently $2500 and you need to "have demonstrated to Nintendo's satisfaction the ability to develop and program excellent software for Nintendo video game systems or for other game platforms" (amongst other things).

It's these kind of barriers (especially the financial ones) that put smaller developers off. And the quality assurance thing surely doesn't work for Nintendo if we remember how many awful shovelware titles there've been (particularly on the Wii).

Nintendo need a developers page that says something like "HEY. We make great games and we want you to make great games for our consoles too. Click here to download our development kit and start developing!" on a user friendly webpage. NOT on a website that looks like it was built in the early 90's and stinks of 'we don't care about anyone else'.

Then they might start to get somewhere in their mission to attract more quality developers.

Gen0neD

#59

Gen0neD said:

Gonna have to agree with others here. The install base alone should have devs flocking to 3ds. Strange...

dumedum

#61

dumedum said:

I'd rather have one Wii U game with game pad use and off tv play than 10 on sucky old gen controllers.

lamco

#62

lamco said:

The ios games are possibly (are) a bunch of rip offs of some flash game from the internet that are poorly executed.

AdanVC

#63

AdanVC said:

@Fazermint hahah so true! But I think... this just shows how Nintendo just don't care on bringing 3rd Party stuff to their consoles. We don't even know if we would have the next CoD or the next Assassin's Creed considering that even Watch_Dogs is in risk of being cancelled on Wii U with that "delay" pretext... DO SOMETHING NINTENDO! Times have changed you can't manage this train alone anymore, even if you still continue creating amazing 1st party games, the 3 month drought between each big 1st party retail game is just ridiculous! :(

Shworange

#64

Shworange said:

If developers are ignoring the 3DS even more than the WiiU, then what's it going to take to get them on board with the WiiU? I'm assuming a large percentage of developers there are strictly phone developers. It's s sad trend when a piece of crap like flappy bird is what garners attention, and it's a disturbing trend if you like substantive games.

Peach64

#65

Peach64 said:

I wonder how much longer everyone is going to keep their heads in the sands. Yeah, this is just shovel ware devs, this is just North America. All those big Japanese devs are lining up to make Wii U games...

Nintendo make great games, but they're just one publisher. There will always be more great non-Nintendo games than great Nintendo games in any year.

MEGAMAN_D

#66

MEGAMAN_D said:

@Peach64

Vita has a terrible attach rate to, they can't even sell their first party games on it let alone 3rd party stuff.

Yet I don't see these devs backing away from the vita. I'm starting to believe the whole nintendo conspiracy thing y'know.

unrandomsam

#67

unrandomsam said:

@Yorumi You can override any part of it you need to really easily and what exists is already good. (As can be demonstrated by the quality of the games that use it). It is well designed. The reasons why it is good are related to the reasons why MIcrosoft made it.

MysticX

#69

MysticX said:

A lot of small devs are programming for PC and tablets simply because it's relatively easy to get your game up for sale, which also makes for a high number of crappy games and (especially on tablets) a lot of [shudder] freemium drek clogging stuff up, additionally, the different architecture of Nintendo devices makes porting harder (Second screen for 3ds, for instance), and one way to overcome attach rate trouble is publishing for several platforms at once...

shigulicious

#70

shigulicious said:

This means nothing. As long as Nintendo makes Nintendo games for Nintendo consoles, I'll continue to support Nintendo. Nintendo.

Yorumi

#71

Yorumi said:

@Peach64 that's a highly subjective statement. Everyone has a different idea of what is important. For example often time reviewers will gloss over a poorly written story and say something like "oh well as far as video game stories go it's ok." That's unacceptable to me, if someone can write a good story for a book or a movie they can do it for a video game too.

Other times all the look at are the graphics, good graphics are 80% of a review score. For my personal tastes graphics count for about 5% of what I care about in a game. Popularity also doesn't equal quality or else reality tv should be winning oscars.

Marketing plays a huge role in this too, companies know how to hype up garbage and get mindless people to buy it. When it comes right down to it most people don't buy hundreds of games a year. Now granted due to the sheer volume of games released it's probably true nintendo alone couldn't supply all of someone's wants but given the subjective nature of it you'd be amazed how far it can go.

@unrandomsam that's why I say you don't know anything about programing. Object oriented programing, and function overloading and overwriting have existed for decades. What you've described is basically the core of how any kind of programing works. You're essentially reading talking points when you don't even understand what they're saying. It's compact .net, of course you can overload, .net supports library linking, function overloading, operator overloading, and object oriented design.

JJtheTexan

#72

JJtheTexan said:

@rjejr and @tenten nailed it - this article misrepresents the data a bit. Firstly, the poll specifically asks about the developers' next game for release, not "all games currently under development". Heck, even Nintendo would have to answer that their "next game" is not for 3DS! (DKC:TF) Secondly, note the absurdly high number of "developers" working on mobile / tablet games. That's a completely different market and a different subset of developers. Any idiot with DIY app-building software can make a mobile game these days, and as "Flappy Bird" proved, they can just rip off existing concepts and have a best-selling P.O.S. on their hands.

whodatninja

#73

whodatninja said:

It seems that developers dont want to develop games for anything other than stripped down PCs anymore, like PS4 and Xbone. If it's an actual GAME CONSOLE like the Wii U however, they just wont have it.

AVahne

#74

AVahne said:

Makes sense. Not many devs will want to develop for consoles that won't give them a decent return on their time and investment. They're not lazy, just very wary.

Diddy_kong

#75

Diddy_kong said:

The 3DS is one of the best systems out there in my opinion. As for the Wii U... well, I have mine so that I can play Nintendo games. I assume that Nintendo will continue to make games for it, so I'll continue to be happy with it.

JaySonsa1298

#76

JaySonsa1298 said:

Why is the 3ds percentage so low? It's one of the most profitable consoles this gen and has a high install base. They're really missing out on our money.

unrandomsam

#77

unrandomsam said:

@Yorumi Object Orientated is not all programming. (The thing I have the most experience with was a combination of common lisp / Informix 4gl / C / SQL). The other proper thing I did just involved fixing some algorithms for a mapping hardware device. (Still programming as far as I am concerned even though it is not object oriented).

Diddy_kong

#78

Diddy_kong said:

@whodatninja

Pretty sure the PS4 and Xbox One are actual game consoles, too. I understand that we're all pro-Nintendo here, but come on - you're just fooling yourself if you think that the Wii U is the only "console" out there.

Yorumi

#80

Yorumi said:

@unrandomsam I never said it was, I said you don't know what you're talking about. .net is basically a microsoft version of java. .net is a designed object oriented language, which means it supports all standard functionality that can be expected from that. XNA is basically just a project setup, there's a little more to it than that but but overall that's all they've done. You could accomplish the same thing in virtually any compiled language by importing libraries and configuring the compiler and linker.

My point is you're worshiping this thing when you have absolutely no idea what it even is. It's not revolutionary, and it's not special. It's some linked libraries and a configured compiler packaged up. There's nothing wrong with that per se, but it's not some revolution in game development.

paul1983190

#81

paul1983190 said:

for one this survey is not good. It ask what next game they are releasing will be on what system. that doesn't mean that they will not make any games for the 3ds. Just that they are not releasing a game on that system yet but they could have a game in production..I think a better survey would be what platform that you are not planing on working for or releasing on or what systems are you developing for.

Yorumi

#83

Yorumi said:

@paul1983190 other have pointed it out but another thing to keep in mind is the number of developers cause it tells us something about them. Can you even name 20 north americal developers off the top of your head? That's not being confrontational that's just making a point. They claim to have surveyed 2600 developers, that means most people probably havn't heard of even 1% of these developers.

Even with the exploding indie scene, and looking up developers you've vaguely heard of you'll struggle to get to 2% I would wager. That suggest that even with conservative estimates it's likely the vast majority of those polled are making junk games. They're cloning angry birds, or flash games, or candy crush. Start ups are all well and good but everything suggests this is mostly a poll of developers making games no one really cares about.

divinelite

#85

divinelite said:

Sony ask one by on indie developers to make games for ps4 and vita through out 2013 so it's understandable
Keep in mind that Nintendo Doesn't do that too well, plus Nintendo people buy more 1st party then any 3rd let alone indie

unrandomsam

#87

unrandomsam said:

@Yorumi Prior to that very few indie games actually ended up finished. Simple fact. After that nearly all the best stuff uses it and stuff starts being finished. Anything using any of the alternatives is of inferior quality. (For whatever reason).

divinelite

#88

divinelite said:

@bizcuthammer that's the best answer about 3rd party
Even complete game 3rd party is always sold poorly against 1st party Nintendo, yet so many 3rd party take dominance in Sony and Ms Console
Sony and Ms are place for 3rd party and well Nintendo for 1st, I guess that is an unwritten yet known to all

Peach64

#89

Peach64 said:

@MEGAMAN_D Vita has the highest attach rate out there. It's something ridiculous like 12 games sold for every console. Of course, it's still a low number because the console sales are low, but I guess they just feel it's really easy to throw an indie game on there and get good sales.

divinelite

#91

divinelite said:

@Peach64 true I have 100++ vita games and about 5 3ds game so far
It's also true that most of vita games are Indies but we should agree to say graphic won't matter but the game play right?

Yorumi

#92

Yorumi said:

@FlyingKickPunch it depends on how we look at it. Since unity is supported across all platforms most people are just ticking the checkbox to compile their phone game for pc. Many pc games are ports from other systems and wern't natively designed on pc, even a lot of the major releases. Steam has helped but you're generally not seeing any of the ambitious projects you used to see. Grated that's kind of true across all platforms.

@unrandomsam the vast majority of indies are using unity. But quite frankly I'd love to see you try to actually support your statements. Do you personally know all the indie devs and what they were working on? It's a platform designed for making small games that a modern computer could probably run entirely through the cpu if it wanted to.

.net is a quick to develop system that starts showing it's weakness when you start pushing systems at all. The execution speed is far below c++, and a lot of the built in functions are terribly optimized and very slow. It has a lot of overhead and safety nets to rescue bad programers.

People like it because in smaller projects code optimization doesn't matter. If you search the common sites on the internet about coding efficiency and optimization is almost never mentioned. You're just looking at what you want to see and reciting talking points.

I know you're just going to keep saying a system you know nothing about is the greatest thing so this is pretty much pointless anymore.

divinelite

#93

divinelite said:

Oh and don't forget how clumsy the account system of nintendo at this point
Maybe someday they could make it right and I might add more digital game. So far I only have ace attorney as my digital 3ds game

6ch6ris6

#94

6ch6ris6 said:

wow the 3DS numbers make no sense at all.

over 50% for freakin smartphones? where have we come to...

GunstarHero234

#95

GunstarHero234 said:

@Diddy_kong Couldn't say it better than myself man I thank you for being openly respectful to all "GAMING" consoles rather than being a mindless Nintendrone that spits all types of contradicting BS out the mouth.

datamonkey

#97

datamonkey said:

I'm surprised Vita has that much more support than 3DS considering the install base of each. Though I'm also quite happy as I love gaming on my Vita.

Nintendo really need to start courting 3rd parties pretty hard as this does not look good...

Yorumi

#98

Yorumi said:

@6ch6ris6 well you have to understand the difference between phone development and console development. The same team, under one company producing say watch dogs could probably produce 500 or more phone games in the same time period under 100 difference companies. That skews the numbers quite a bit.

Also I don't know if this statistic is still true today but it wasn't long about that around 70% of all apps on the ios app store had never been downloaded. That alone is pretty telling. Phones are a whole different world and most of their games wouldn't have a prayer on a game console.

Ralek85

#99

Ralek85 said:

Too bad that this is a very restricted sample with little variance and therefore lacking representative value. They should have tried to get a more international sample and perform basic loading. This statistic leaves us with nothing except for some descriptive data.

unrandomsam

#100

unrandomsam said:

@Yorumi Ok which Unity games are not rubbish ? (The one I was most hopeful for was Syder Arcade and it is just broken.) Not bothered about stuff like Visual novels etc. Just traditional console/arcade type games. (Bullet Hell / run n gun / beat em up / none puzzle based platformer etc).

I have played nearly all these I liked the look of and the quality is generally abysmal.

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=95768297

ejamer

#101

ejamer said:

The 3DS number is pretty disappointing. I expected low... but much lower than Vita or Wii U? (Actually, the intent to support Vita was pretty surprising in general considering how sales have gone for that platform.)

Prof_Elvin_Gadd

#102

Prof_Elvin_Gadd said:

I realize it's only their "next" game, so I'm not going to overreact. I also realize that some of these developers have no choice in what game they make or what hardware they make it for. I'm still SMDH though.

Yorumi

#103

Yorumi said:

@unrandomsam First of all that's a huge logical fallacy. One individual's ability to program well does not say anything about the engine itself. You might as well say unreal engine is terrible because a few people couldn't make quality games on it. Unity is a rendering and scripting engine. If you knew what that mention you would understand how foolish your statement is.

I don't even think unity needs to be cited in the credits, but certainly not on any start up screens. Ubisoft, for example, uses unity. Might and Magic X is built in unity engine. The port of The World Ends With You for IOS is unity engine. There are all kinds of games across varying genres with varying qualities. Again unity is an engine, how it's used is up to the individual. I'll guarantee you could find plenty of terribly made xna games.

kkslider5552000

#104

kkslider5552000 said:

@Peach64 You do realize that
1. Most of the top 10 best selling titles were multi-console games that most hardcore gamers (even fans of Bioshock Infinite or TLOU) more often than not didn't care about right? I looked at the best selling software list, it was just a confirmation that what hardcore gamers care about is increasingly irrelevant.
2. Yeah Nintendo's stuff sells the best but there was no way like half of the 3rd party stuff on 3DS should have found the level of success it did (see: niche japanese games and indies) and the games consistently make money from what I understand. I would think consistently making money would be a good thing. EO4's success is still bizarre to me.

Darknyht

#106

Darknyht said:

So the news story is that a bunch of independent developers (45% use personal funds for development) that mainly plan on releasing on iOS and Android (50% response) show no interest in developing on the 3DS/Wii U? That isn't news nor is it surprising.

Hamguar

#108

Hamguar said:

@Fazermint
That is exactly what I was thinking. This biggest issue with people developing games for nintendo systems IS the fact that we buy Nintendo games both in type and quality. I, like many others who are accustomed to buying things that actually work, won't buy POS games that seem to be flooding the market. This is not to say Ninty hasn't made it's fair share of piles or needed patches as well, but still for the most of it I've only seen a genuine desire to actually TRY to make quality games come from Nintendo and a select few developers/indies, to which I gladly fund and support. Most of those there are rank and file independants looking to make the most while doing the least, hence why they all gravitate to PC/Smartphone drivel.

Yorumi

#109

Yorumi said:

@kkslider5552000 I actually don't find EO4's success all that bizarre when you start looking through all the noise. There's this notion out there that niche markets are terrible and should be ignored, sell millions of copies or go home. EO games were always high quality, and offered a ton of bang for your buck. Those games offer a lot of playtime.

Basically the games grew naturally and without forced marketing and payoffs. People who played 1 told people about it who bought 2, loved it and told more more people and so on. They properly controlled costs so they never needed to sell more than was reasonably possible and built a fanbase that loved the games for what they are.

Kodeen

#110

Kodeen said:

@unrandomsam "Ok which Unity games are not rubbish ?"

Thomas Was Alone
Rochard
Slender
Cities in Motion 2
Dungeonland
Gone Home
Kerbal Space Program
Rust
Shadowrun Returns
Surgeon Simulator
Might & Magic X

Upcoming releases:
Wasteland 2
Dreamfall Chapters
Hearthstone
Pillars of Eternity
Shroud of the Avatar
Torment - Tides of Numenera

Undead_terror

#111

Undead_terror said:

While I got a tablet to game out on it does sadden me that most games are wanting to make games on it, sure I might get the option to play a few extra games, but to have touch screen controls and microtransactions becoming a thing ruins it, I'm able to use a controller on my tablet which you can play on some games which solves one problem a bit but the other...

Jayvir

#112

Jayvir said:

The fact that people are ignoring the 3DS for the Vita but likewise aren't doing the same for Wii U shows definite bias for Nintendo. The 3DS is the absolute dominant console on the market and yet these third parties will waste their cash trying to revive it. Of course, they won't even try to release a single game on Wii U...

3MonthBeef

#114

3MonthBeef said:

@ferthepoet It says right there in the article they talked to 2600 North American developers. [To the viewers: does nobody read an article first before commenting anymore?]

unrandomsam

#119

unrandomsam said:

@Kodeen Thomas was Alone is the only one on that list that comforms to what I expect in terms of working really well. (Not my type of game but there is nothing wrong with it - it works properly)

Next question is - is it because of Unity or in spite of it. (Like in anything the best people at anything are good enough to use anything).

I knew it was ok for stuff that was mainly cutscenes. Rochard is my type of game but it didn't work well enough for me.

unrandomsam

#120

unrandomsam said:

A great artist could do something better using just a stick and some sand than the rest of the world could do even in the best possible conditions with the best possible stuff.

FullbringIchigo

#121

FullbringIchigo said:

@Yorumi really the Wii went for over 7 didn't it same as ps3 and 360 plus ain't the ps4 and xb1 on a 10 year plan

all I'm saying is I can see it being dropped sooner than Nintendo would like

now I would like to see a long future for the Wii U as I really enjoy the system but the future isn't looking that rosey at the moment, I hope nintendo xan turn it around but I'm just preparing myself for the worse

Rafie

#122

Rafie said:

Wow we still got some Vita haters here. Believe it or not, the Vita got a bit of surge in sales. Probably due to the Remote Play option for the PS4. They (Vita) is still ahead of the Wii U.

Also folks remember this is just the NA market. The 3DS would be much higher than ANY console on the market right now. At the same time (which has been said already), the 3DS is more difficult to develop for because of it's architecture and the 3D properties.

Sony is doing a great job of selling it's hardware. Already past 5.3 million consoles without the release in Japan. Wii U will see a surge in sales due to some software, but not a huge significant one. That doesn't bother me though. I'll always support Nintendo, but I have to have other consoles as well.

Yorumi

#124

Yorumi said:

@FullbringIchigo funny they said the same thing about the ps3 and 360 being on a 10 year plan. So the ones that actually have a history of dropping consoles early would be sony and microsoft.

A 10 year plan is so amazingly beyond realistic it's laughable, especially for consoles. Computer architecture changes so much in so little time and consoles are already underpowered at the time of their launch. To give you an idea on a 10 year plan the ps2 would have been just phased out a few years ago. On a 10 year plan the ps3 would have basically been replacing the ps1.

Here's a fun one, on a 10 year plan the snes would have still been the primary system at the time of the launch of the gamecube. This past console generation is really an anomaly on the data. Five to six years is the average.

You're basically saying you expect nintendo to drop the wiiU right on schedule and trying to portray it as a bad thing.

@unrandomsam again I'll say if you knew what you were talking about you'd understand how foolish your statements are.

Ralizah

#125

Ralizah said:

Not a problem for me. Very few Western devs get my money anyway.

I'm very happy with this Nintendo gen thus far. ESPECIALLY the 3DS. Less shovel ware means the good games aren't piled under a fun of Brain Age clones.

tanookisuit

#126

tanookisuit said:

It's actually not that big of a downer when you also look to see how many are just touch game only suck-ups which is over 1/2 and also with the home computer. That's where a lot of the American interests seem to be tied up in as it's safe and can easily pull in some cash. Nintendo on both systems was low last year too yet look at the good roll of downloadable titles and physical (mainly 3DS) they did receive. Also look at the larger picture of WHO releases stuff on the NIntendo systems, primarily it's the Japanese and this is an American conference. Very few western developers cater to the market that Nintendo seems to pull in which are people more interested in the genres the Japanese push which aren't FPS games, sports, western rpgs, MMOs and select few others.

Kodeen

#127

Kodeen said:

@unrandomsam

What is your definition of 'working well'? The only game in that list really known for bugs is Rust, and that's in early alpha.

micronean

#128

micronean said:

I think those chart numbers mean the MAIN platforms developers have in mind to make games for, but it wouldn't mean that they couldn't port their creation to other systems--especially from smartphone to 3DS.

Also, to stay in business, developers need to make games for as many systems as they can anyways. And we don't know if those that answered the poll are just rogue developers who can only afford to do smartphone games.

JustinH

#129

JustinH said:

What nonsense. It says one per cent are releasing something on the Wii. What mystery products could these be?

Besides, 4% or 19%, the bottom line is the industry is obsessed with PCs and especially cellphones, so I don't see how anyone should be celebrating this.

Blue_Yoshi

#130

Blue_Yoshi said:

Wow Vita got even more of a percentage both of Nintendo's systems combined. That's pathetic.

Chris720

#131

Chris720 said:

Who da hell uses their phone/tablet as a gaming system? Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Flappy Bird as much as the next guy, but I wouldn't waste a weekend playing it.

Sean_Aaron

#132

Sean_Aaron said:

Firstly games made for smart devices and tablets are not automatically rubbish any more than games made for Wii U or 3DS are automatically great. I don't care about the quantity of content on any platform, but what I do value is a well-crafted game which plays to the strengths of the platform it's created for.

DarkKirby

#135

DarkKirby said:

50.63% Developing Smartphones/Tablet games.
Untitled

52.04 Developing PC games.
Untitled

If all goes well I won't have to buy a PS4, but Japanese developers don't seem to support PC at all...

SanderEvers

#137

SanderEvers said:

See this chart as:

I almost finished my Wii U game! What will I create next? Well a smartphone game to milk my title a bit more.

After that, well, another Wii U game. Ofcourse.

And:
Untitled

Yorumi

#138

Yorumi said:

@unrandomsam unity is a graphics rendering and scripting engine. It's purpose is to abstract away the code needed to load vertext, texture, and animation data, and the code necessary to render frames. On top of this abstraction it also abstracts out the necessary code to create a listener system and a scripting engine which compiles user made scripts into objects. The unity engine handles the timing of when and how to execute those script based on the users parameters.

Unity was designed to run inside a VM if I remember correctly, whether it's specifically a VM or not is irrelevant, which allows code to always be executed in the same way regardless of platform it's being executed on.

The user is still responsible for nearly all of the programing necessary for creating the game. Unity is just abstracting away the most basic and low level programing operations, and creating an IDE for development of unity games. It serves basically the same function as unreal engine, cryengine, gamebryo engine, and other such engines.

The source code for unity is available so even the most basic core rendering functions can be modified if someone desires. Many programing environments are designed for this purpose, which is to abstract away a lot of low level programing behind libraries.

Unity has been tested against many high end graphical engines and it keeps up just fine. Again the programers are building the game engine, unity is the rendering, scripting, and IO engine. It comes with built in scripts in it's library for physics, animation, camera control and other things but like any library there is no requirement to use these. Any programer can write their own.

unrandomsam

#139

unrandomsam said:

@Kodeen That it controls as well as something on the say the NES or SNES or Neo Geo. (A good example of without e.g Slowdown). Load times equivalent as well. (Not so much bothered at startup).

Yorumi

#142

Yorumi said:

@AltDotNerd that's why he said he could care less cause he does care already. All joking aside a good dev is a good one regardless of where they're located. There's a lot of bad western devs and a lot of bad eastern devs.

JaxonH

#144

JaxonH said:

I'm seeing the bigger picture here. Forget Wii U and 3DS. Just look at how many games are being developed for smartphones and PC! The market is shifting.

Ten, fifteen years from now, it's gonna be nothing but 1st party games and the occasional 3rd party exclusive for Nintendo (pretty much what we're gonna see for Wii U from here on out), and for Sony/MS it's gonna be nothing but the biggest of the big AAA games, which are the safest bets, and indie games across the board.

But seriously, that's where it's headed. 3rd parties are going bankrupt over a single flopped game due to costs nowadays, and as a result they want to take less risks. So the AAA games that DO sell will get more resources, pretty much ALL of them will become annualized, and everything else will fall by the wayside. It won't be long folks. First party only Nintendo consoles, and only annualized mega franchises on Sony/MS.

Yorumi

#145

Yorumi said:

@AltDotNerd he typed it wrong I was just making a joke about it. Or maybe he didn't but what he actually meant was he doesn't care about western devs. I think because of how fast we talk couldn't and could sound similar and so people started typing that not realizing the grammatical implications.

"Could care less" doesn't make a whole lot of sense in any context.

gatorboi352

#146

gatorboi352 said:

Just as I said in a previous article before this information was announced: At this point, Nintendo is just struggling to remain relevant anymore. These results prove it. Denounce these 3rd parties all you want and claim "we don't need them", but that's what BlackBerry fans said about all the Apps skipping their products. Now look where BlackBerry is in the world of smartphones.

JoostinOnline

#147

JoostinOnline said:

The title is very misleading. The poll is about what they plan for their next game. The title suggests that less than 5% ever plan to create something on the Wii U.

boynerdrambling

#149

boynerdrambling said:

Hey guys, instead of turing this into a nintendoom things as usual, maybe you should step back and see that the percentages for the home console portion of the graph (U,PS4,BONE) are all pretty terrible. You know the industry is in trouble when the highest percentages are going to smart phone/tablets and pc.mac ios games.

Whats worse, the what remains of devs that are planning console support are trying to chase the 1% chance they'll make the next AAA cash cow, when in fact they'll make a game with a bloated budget that they'll never sell enough copies of to even remotely make their money back from. Leading to the studio/ publisher either axing jobs or shutting its doors. If it happens to enough companies, well the industry will crash.

Whats even funnier, the guy who originally tweeted this was a ubisoft dev, who followed on to say it was "good" devs weren't planning to make a game on nintendo platforms, the one company right now who's the next likely to suffer job cuts or closing its door. Rayman and Splinter Cell flopped. Assassins creed sales down release after release, added to the fact the hype for watch dogs is gone and theres probably no way they'll make bank on it. That guy will probably have a rude wake up call pretty soon.

gojiguy

#150

gojiguy said:

This is interesting because there are over 150 Wii U games coming from indies alone this year, and on top of that there are more coming on the way from other 3rd parties. I'm not surpised it is low, it just doesn't seem to match up. Might have to do with more large companies backing PS4/One whereas indies are more on Wii U. This leads to more employees saying "yes" on the survey to the platforms their companies support.

The large number on Vita isn't surprising given Unity support and such and indie success.

The small 3DS number is kind of shocking, but it seems western developers aren't interested in the platform, despite its popularity (tearing up the charts in all territories).

WaveBoy

#151

WaveBoy said:

Shovel Knight, Mighty N.9, Bayonetta 2(not too excited mind you) & The Evil Within are the only 3rd party titles on the horizon that i even care about. That enormous empty gap will be filled with Nintendo games. ;)

Squiggle55

#152

Squiggle55 said:

That number for the 3DS is very, very interesting. It speaks volumes about Nintendo's relationship with developers, because the 3DS is a successful machine. Wake up, Nintendo! Spend all your time brainstorming on how to build a better ecosystem of loyalty for both devs and players.

danthebro

#153

danthebro said:

The reason very few developers have plans for the 3ds is simple. The 3ds eshop is filled with high quality third party games with very little micro transactions. Nintendo doesn't subject their consumers to greedy developers who want to make customers pay for everything or just developers that make poor games. These major issues are filtered out. This diagram really shows us the few talented and non greedy developers out their...

QuickSilver88

#154

QuickSilver88 said:

@bizcuthammer

I agree, especially where WiiU is concerned but 3DS with its dominating market position deserves more Indy and major 3rd part support.

I wish we could see some real market numbers as I know I and many others (like you probably) skew the demographics considerably. I like all platforms and often in the cycle end up owning multiple machines or versions...like slims, LT,XL,ECT....So while Sony and MS both sold 75+ million units last cycle 3 of each went to me over those 7-8 years.

You are so right on WiiU 3rd party and it depresses me heavily as Batman AC, Injustice, NFS,AC 4,Rayman, Deus EX are all excellent ports (ME3 and NBA 2k13, Splinter Cell and COD were decent ports with various flaws) yet they, as you stated, all sold just horrible. Add to that Nintendo published W101 and LegoCity and MH3U. All sold just terrible. W101 surprised me as it is a slick new property and game type and just bombed horribly (even in japan). I have greatly enjoyed 3rd party on WiiU and love being able to do offTV play for lengthy games like AC4 or ME3. Apparently I am in the minority though so after WatchDogs (if it comes) I expect very little on WiiU from western 3rd parties. Nintendo will still pull off some deals with Japanese majors but WiiU is going to be a mostly Indy box in the west.

Still with all that said the 3DS number (even from this type of small developer conference) surprises me as it has already sold 40+ million units and in general should be cheap to develop for because of its minimal assets. I would assume Nintendo's new Indy friendliness extends to 3DS devs so it shouldn't be that hard to hook up with them to get on eShop and many games coming to Vita like Limbo, Spelunky, ect could easily be done on 3DS and would be exposed to a march larger audience. In the end I think it is just everyone Indies, 3rd parties, whoever have a hard time competing with Nintendo on Nintendo platforms and as you said don't see it as fertile ground.

Sony, Microsoft, and companies like EA have literally declared at times they are anti-family....adult gaming. They really don't want the whole sector and realistically Nintendo owns this demographic and continues to since forever (GB). Nintendo can't give up there as it is their bread and butter and honestly I love a great Mario XYZ that is age agnostic. I just wish they would do more to appeal to their legacy gamers (old guys like me) that would like to see more Metroid, Waverace, and Starfox and just a little less Mario XYZ. The future may be brighter for Nintendo though as Iwata said they will move to a unified development platform (mobile/home) and I think their next device may be a hybrid mobile.

Action51

#155

Action51 said:

But I want Flappy Bird and Trexels!!!

Another article that confirms that mobile and indie gaming is big and spread throughout a huge and somewhat bloated gaming industry.

What we are getting as indie games on the Wii U and 3DS e-shop looks to be cream of the crop, and we avoid a lot of the micro-transaction hell traps that plague modern gaming.

I'm sure the Nintendoom squad will complain that this is "spin", but really we already knew that many western developers are skipping the Wii U. My response is to look at the upcoming games and some of the positive words from smaller developers putting titles on the E-shop where the right game sells very well to the right audience...Renegade Kid, WayForward, and Yacht Club Games among them.

Action51

#156

Action51 said:

@QuickSilver88

I like a lot of what you say, especially about throwing the legacy gamers a few more bones.

I have no interest in short, linear, cut-scene heavy shooters where the whole game seems to be set up to appeal to the psychology of insecure, gloomy, teenage violence fantasy.(see Infamous second son...holy crap)

I am pleased with games like Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze, Monolithsoft X, and Bayonetta 2 coming to Wii U. It's a shame the Batman games didn't do better despite sloppy ports (I own them both + Lego Batman 1 and 2), but that's life. I'm sure we'll see a new and amazing Zelda, but another "adult" or "all ages" title that isn't blood soaked in that manipulative fantasy fulfillment from the majority of big triple A blockbuster titles would be nice.

midnafanboy

#157

midnafanboy said:

wow but i dont care nintendo makes the greatest games of all time if they try, but i still wish people still had faith on the wiiu and the 3ds dont know why i said that cause the 3ds is amazing.

sadsack777

#158

sadsack777 said:

install base is low on the wii u I get that but come on there takeing the piss 3ds sold more hand helds than sony so why little % I don't get this at all .

IceClimbers

#159

IceClimbers said:

@Squiggle55 It isn't Nintendo's relationships with developers that's the problem. Most of these developers from the conference are indies. Nintendo is very indie-friendly. Problem is, the majority of them want to get as much money as possible while putting the least amount of effort, bogging it down with micro-transactions on top of an already-POS game. Nintendo doesn't allow those types of garbage, and the mobile market on iOS/Android is easier to get money off of.

As a result, the 3DS and the Wii U (and most of the other systems for that matter) will only get the cream of the crop from indies - the ones who actually have any talent and put the effort in.

Anyway, as @JaxonH said, the industry is shifting. Part of what caused the infamous video game crash of '83 is that the market was oversaturated with absolute garbage games (ET comes to mind). The other part was that there were too many systems on the market. History is repeating itself. The industry will crash again. Developers are shutting down left and right. People haven't noticed because none of the big ones have closed other than THQ.

Hy8ogen

#161

Hy8ogen said:

This again simply proves my theory is correct. 3rd party devs nowadays are lazy and just want to earn a quick buck. Just the stats of mobile and web browsers proves it.

They would rather developed for a mobile game with minimal effort while earning some quick cash than making good games on the consoles that people will fell in love for. Damn I miss the good old days where all the devs are breaking their head to make good games.

And who is that to blame? People nowadays rather play freaking flappy bird rather than god awesome games like Fire Emblem Awakening, Rune factory etc.

Dragonquester

#162

Dragonquester said:

@JaxonH yeah that's pretty much where this industry is headed. There's not a lot of developers left out there that can afford to make those big AAA games. I think we're going to see a kind of 16-bit, arcade game kind of era, with the rise of indie games. Plus, like you said, the occasional big budget game.
Not necessarily a bad thing in my humble opinion as we're seeing games that cover the whole spectrum of the video game scale, from basic 8-bit style retro games to epic HD games.
I think games have gone about as far as they can go in terms of scope and graphic quality and now there's a return to simpler games. As long as Nintendo sticks around ( which they will) so will I.

WaveBoy

#164

WaveBoy said:

@Hy8ogen

Pretty much this. Back in the 8-16 bit days there was TONS of expirementing going on, dozens of new franchises being born and that's because games weren't as costly to creat nor time consuming. Flash forward to now and were barely seeing anything new outside of hardware innovation. I guess there's only so many stories you can tell around the camp fire. :P

It seems like so many people these days are losing their attention span, they'd rather have a quick go at Angry birds on their I-phone rather than have a go at something as enticing and immersive as Pikmin 3. Most 3rd party devs are sucking so hard these days as it is(Capcom & Konami, never thought i'd say it), to the point where i'm not even disappointed that the Wii is essentially a 1 man-Nintenshow.

I'm not a big fan of the western video game scene, outside maybe a few developers such as Yacht Club, WayForward, along with Retro Studios & NextLevel who are tied in with the Big N.

WanderingPB

#165

WanderingPB said:

Nintendo adds a special quality to their games...so whats wrong with appreciating that? Nintendo is struggling to understand the western market and needs to improve as a whole but I absolutely dont want them to be like the competition. Regardless Nintendo will always be under the microscope damned if they do damned if they dont…they have great exclusives but people will complain that those arent the games they wanted…some dont prefer the gamepad DKCTF doesnt really use it in its platforming masterpiece but people will complain about them not usin the gamepad that they didnt want to use to begin with…everyone buys consoles for exclusives and multiplats add to it as well but honestly people need to just play games and stop complaing because ur really sounding ridiculous good games are good games period. Standard Definition didnt prevent Mario Galaxy from being one of the best games of the last generation right so lets just enjoy the games people

Kuksenkov

#166

Kuksenkov said:

@XCWarrior No offense to anybody, but the poll is focused on american developers, most of them just make shovelware games, most of the good games on 3DS were made by japanese developers....

To be honest, I don't care too much about American developed games. I mostly play RPG games and most of them (if not all) are japanese. Same goes for my Racing/Fighting games.

Kuksenkov

#167

Kuksenkov said:

@XCWarrior No offense to anybody, but the poll is focused on american developers, most of them just make shovelware games, most of the good games on 3DS were made by japanese developers....

To be honest, I don't care too much about American developed games. I mostly play RPG games and most of them (if not all) are japanese. Same goes for my Racing/Fighting games.

Bolt_Strike

#168

Bolt_Strike said:

@JaxonH Sounds about right. Developers probably don't want to develop for consoles as much anymore because of higher development costs and lower install bases (being limited to simply hardcore gamers as opposed to the casual crowd on mobile devices).

ecco6t9

#169

ecco6t9 said:

When that Mobile/Tablet bubble bursts it will not be a pretty sight.

One would hope that developers big and small develop an occasional token handheld and console game to build up goodwill with traditional gaming consumers.

LavaTwilight

#170

LavaTwilight said:

Facts - bah! You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true. The point is, how many developers come and go each year? Maybe their refusal to utilise Nintendo's experience is what causes them to go bust. Statistics are only good to look at. When it comes to the end results, they can often differ greatly from statistics!

chiptoon

#171

chiptoon said:

Says a lot about the people attending GDC. I wen to the European one last year. It was amazing, but there was a huge percentage of attendees that were business people mainly interested in producing the next Candy Crush Saga and milking money from players rather than making a game. Lots of talks about how to monetize games etc. It got a bit depressing outside of the Indie section.

Zombie_Barioth

#172

Zombie_Barioth said:

@Yorumi
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure with the PS3 and 360 the "10 year lifespan" was supposed to be 10 years of support, not as the primary console. I remember hearing Sony talk about the PS3 lasting for at least 7-8 years and still being supported a few years after its successor releases. Not sure if thats still the case now or not, but both companies will want to milk their consoles for all their worth.

I have a feeling the Wii U will retire early one way or another, whether its by the traditional lifespan or the 10 year stretch. It all depends on if Nintendo wants to keep the Wii U going a few extra years to make up for the slow start, or cut it a year or so early like the Gamecube.

Either way they'll want to capitalize on people getting tired of their current console and come out swinging.

AugustusOxy

#173

AugustusOxy said:

YEP! And when their multi million dollar games don't sell for the PS4 and the Xboxone, they'll be back making games for cheaper-to-develop on consoles.

MAB

#174

MAB said:

Not only is there less support for 3DS but I have also noticed the quality has been turned down several notches... Most 3DS 3rd party games are below average bordering on and most of the time well within the realms of shovelware ;)

FullbringIchigo

#176

FullbringIchigo said:

@Yorumi no I'm not I would love the Wii U to contiune for as long as possible I can just see them releasing a new system before they would like too or maybe a new version of the Wii U

Dragoon04

#177

Dragoon04 said:

Did you see where they got their funding? And most of the games are on mobile.
These are probably one man operations producing flappy bird clones, or free to play PC MMOs and they don't have the expertise to develop for duel screens. Or even all the great developers that have to pathetically bow down to EA as he forces them to stay away from anything Nintendo.

Sorry for the harsh words, but I am just a little bitter about that free to wait leech that is Dungeon Keeper Mobile trash that EA and mobile developers had the audacity to publish and call a game.

Dragoon04

#178

Dragoon04 said:

Nintendo's dedication to quality, and player satisfaction is such a rare gem these days.
The day I have to download a day one patch for a Nintendo game is the day when I wallow silently in my nostalgia of the Golden age of gaming long past.

Kirk

#179

Kirk said:

Sums up just how bad third party support is on Nintendo systems, these days.

Also, note how despite selling FAR better than the PS Vita, the third party support from these developers for 3DS going forward is around 4x less than that for PS Vita.

Clearly, total hardware sales aren't ALL that matters to most of these developers, so even if Nintendo did drastically improve the Wii U's abysmal sales numbers I still don't see most developers giving a flying f**k about it.

Remember the good old days of the NES and SNES when Nintendo absolutely dominated everyone else with both first AND third party support...

Remember...that's about all we can do these days.

Yorumi

#181

Yorumi said:

@Zombie_Barioth Well most consoles generally get support for a few years after the new one. There's always the company here and there that does this but when I was listing where 10 years fall you get an idea of how ridiculous some of it is. Imagine the snes still being supported in 2001.

Companies are already whining about porting to a system that's more gpu heavy than cpu but otherwise executes the same code. Or lets put it this way, companies are already using as their excuse the wiiU's power not to port games, and we expect a 10 year cycle to be feasible?

There are ways it could be actually be done, but with the modern obsession over polygon count there's just no way.

TenEighty

#182

TenEighty said:

One of the problems is the cost to develop for Nintendo. You have to purchase a $2000+ dev kit. Where as for Apple (desktop or mobile), it's only $99 a year. Others may not cost you anything except for what you use to make your games.

Yorumi

#183

Yorumi said:

@TenEighty some of that depends on what you're making. For example the wiiU dev kit comes with unity, on other systems if you're using unity you need to buy it, that ups the cost quite a bit. Even when they're not using unity you still need some sort of engine. If you're making a game so cheap that the $99 vs $2000 is a wide gap then it's a very very simple game, and probably one that no one really cares about on the wiiU.

I'm not saying that it isn't cheaper to make a phone game, it's just that the $99 is a bit misleading.

TenEighty

#184

TenEighty said:

@Yorumi It's not misleading at all. I'm an OS X developer and was going to make my game for the Wii U but there were issues. Some of us thought we could write and compile actual code for the Wii U but Nintendo is only offering/supporting NWF (HTML5) or Unity. That was just one of the issues, so I returned my dev kit. Maybe Nintendo's next console will target experienced programmers and look into the issues that some of us posted on the dev forum.

Yorumi

#185

Yorumi said:

That doesn't make any sense, Unity is code it's just an environment. You just said "they gave me something to write and compile code with and I was expecting to be able to write and compile code so I returned it."

TenEighty

#186

TenEighty said:

@Yorumi Makes a lot of sense. I also don't use "game makers" apps. If there's a bug, I like to be able to fix it right away. If there's a bug in a "game maker" app, you have to wait for that developer to fix it. Sometimes they don't get fixed just like in Unity. Games made in Unity for OS X has a major issue in gamepad support. It doesn't work at all. I've wasted money on 2 games that were made in Unity and the indie game makers are unable to fix them because it's a bug or flaw in Unity. So that's exactly why I don't use "game making apps". HTML5 is fine but limited. One being the Wii U doesn't support OpenGL, therefor no WebGL hardware acceleration. That doesn't mean you can't make a good game with it, it just has its limitations.

Yorumi

#187

Yorumi said:

I don't really think you are as experienced as you think you are. Unity is not a "game maker app" it's a full engine. Major AAA companies have used it for large games. This is like calling cryengine a game maker app. I don't doubt that it's not perfect but you're showing quite a bit of ignorance about development tools.

TenEighty

#188

TenEighty said:

@Yorumi I've been programming for over a decade. And yes, Unity is a game engine but a game engine that's based off of OpenGL or Direct X. Therefor you have to rely on their code for their game engine when or if you knew how to write your own code, you could compile your own game with OpenGL or Direct X and not rely on someone else's game engine.

I find it funny you call me ignorant when I have written apps for 2D and 3D games, for compilers, and many other things. I have a history that can prove it all over the web. Plus my OS X apps sell just fine. So why are you trying to argue with me? I'm not bashing Nintendo. I've been a Nintendo fan since the NES was released. I'm just stating that Nintendo should have not left out experienced programmers which can all be read on their dev forums by me and others which they have acknowledge.

GunstarHero234

#189

GunstarHero234 said:

@TenEighty Wow now Nintendo Fanboys are arguing with Programmers now even though they never made a software in their lives profound sadness lol. Dude just take this as a grain of salt and ignore him I believe you fully just these people don't want to listen to you or any developers/programmers that doesn't work on a Nintendo console sadly.

Yorumi

#190

Yorumi said:

@TenEighty I'm not arguing that you can't write your own opengl code, I'm saying calling unity a game maker app is showing a colossal amount of ignorance toward dev tools. You're arguing that anyone who licenses an engine from anyone is using a game maker app and that's both incredibly arrogant and incredibly ignorant.

The problem is you're statements are contradictory. You claim to be this great programer, while calling engine licensing game making apps, and saying you were basically unable to use unity to make an eshop game. I'm kind of curious what specifically you needed unity to do that it can't?

@GunstarHero234 You can lay off the insults and making things up about people. I'm a programer too, which is why I'm saying this doesn't make any sense. I know and use unity among other things at work, I know what it was designed for, what it's capable of, and how to use it.

TenEighty

#191

TenEighty said:

@GunstarHero234 Thanks and I understand. I'm just trying to explain the backend of why developers have pulled away from the Wii U. Something that I'm not happy about. So, as i've stated, we have voiced this to Nintendo and hopes there are some changes, whether it be for the Wii U or next console. I only wish the best for Nintendo because in my mind, they do make the best games.

This is just something new Nintendo is offering, which is great, for indie developers and of course there is going to be some issues. Until then, I have time to write a game or two and hopefully someday port them to a Nintendo console.

TenEighty

#192

TenEighty said:

@Yorumi I wasn't unable to use Unity, I just didn't want to. I prefer to write and compile my own stuff. That leaves me in control of quickly fixing any bugs without relying on someone else.

am I the greatest programmer, no. I am very anal as you can see with programming. It's for the best though. I don't like delivering buggy apps nor do I like buying others buggy apps and then they never fix them. That's all I'm trying to say.

Cheers! ;)

GunstarHero234

#193

GunstarHero234 said:

@TenEighty @Yorumi Dude I wasn't insulting anybody but you can lay off the BS on this guy which is facts. I'm not going to get caught into this whirlwind because you wont reason with the guy effectively and it's funny that you state "insult" while reading all your "interesting" comments.

And Ten I agree with you and I hope you be successful we need new blood titles on this plain system and the more games the better.

Yorumi

#194

Yorumi said:

@GunstarHero234 oh yes calling me a fanboy who's never programed anything in his life, when you know absolutely nothing about me isn't an insult. For all you know I know more about programing that he does, maybe I do, maybe I don't, I don't know because I don't know him personally. I was pointing out things he was saying that still don't make any sense and you show up launching into all kinds of attacks and insults.

You can believe whoever you want but there's no need to launch into insults because you personally like what one person is saying over another.

electrolite77

#195

electrolite77 said:

Surprised to see Vita support higher than 3DS but then I think it's easier to port to it from the PC plus on Vita-as much as I like the machine-you don't have to compete against such strong first party software.

In fact looking at the top selling games on 3DS, the machine has been a bit of a graveyard for third party generally (16 of the Top 20 are Nintendo games) (according yo VG Chartz anyway)

TenEighty

#196

TenEighty said:

I would never claim to be better then anyone at programming and no one else can either. There's too many things to learn and for that, it's a forever learning process. What makes a good programmer is how well that are at understanding a language, how well they can solve problems, do they or are they capable of fixing bugs and how well they are with math. Going back to the roots of Asm and C is best for any programmer though. Relying on others works can only get you so far. That's why I never used Visual Studio or .Net when I use to work with Windows OS. I don't like relying on plugins, app/game makers and so forth.

Now I'm not saying these are bad choices as everyone has to begin some where. But once you've gotten so far, it's time to go back and create solid, smaller and faster apps just like they did in the past. Just look at all the games created with machine code / asm back in the 80's and 90's. Nice small apps that ran on little cpu and memory.

Anyway, this topic could go on forever but lets focus on what's best for Nintendo and its future. Sometimes topics like the one I posted can lead to discussions like this. Which doesn't really get any of us any where in reality.

So have fun playing what you like and if your a developer, make sure you focus on solid fun programming instead of how much money you can make. ;)

Yorumi

#197

Yorumi said:

@TenEighty there's also something to be said about constantly reinventing the wheel. I think a crutch is more in the way you approach something moreso than that it exists. Sure it's great to build your own libraries and I have a lot of my own. There are a lot of people that use .net and unity and other such things as crutch. At the same time though they're powerful systems and if your library ends up doing essentially the same thing there's little reason not to use them.

It's definitely good to do what you enjoy, but I think you're being quite overly critical tools that have their proper uses.

As far as what's best for nintendo's future, that's hard to say exactly. I love the indies and they're bringing some much needed creativity to the industry, but I don't think what they're doing is actually good for consoles. What I mean is most of their games can run on a toaster, it's virtually impossible to buy a computer that couldn't run indie games, and they're ported to every system under the sun. Basically for indies there's little difference in console or pc and so why bother I already have a pc.

The future isn't with the traditional 3rd parties either, their games are risk averse and bland. They need to find another Rare or four. Nintendo's problem is they've found their niche and know how to sell to it but they're only one company so they can only do so much.

TenEighty

#198

TenEighty said:

@Yorumi I agree with what you're saying but my main issue is what Nintendo did and did not do.

Not using OpenGL (GX2 or whatever they used instead) made it more time consuming to port an already made game. Then not using/supporting developers who can compile their own code and going with NWF and Unity makes a developer rewrite their games but like above, that would have to be done anyway if OpenGL was used.

Long story short, they targeted new indie developers who were creating new games from scratch with an easier approach by offering NWF and Unity. Which is good but that took away experienced programmers who already know and developed with OpenGL. So unless one wants to rewrite their game, gamble on whether they'll make enough to pay off their $2000+ dev kit and time spent, it may not be worth it.

So Nintendo has pushed away some developers therefor a lack of new or old games will be ported to the Wii U. Or at least not as many as there could be. This is just part of the issue talked about on the dev forums.

IceClimbers

#199

IceClimbers said:

@MAB That's definitely one thing I will say about the 3DS. Retailers have not been putting the shovelware games out on shelves like they did so vigorously with the GBA, DS, and Wii. Thank God. The only time I actually ever see any of the shovelware is on the eShop, and even then I very rarely see it on the front page.

Zombie_Barioth

#200

Zombie_Barioth said:

@Yorumi
Yea, I got what you were saying. My point was just I don't think when they say "10 year cycle" they mean no new console for 10 years. We haven't seen that with any console generation, not yet anyway.

The 10 year cycle is crazy no matter how you look at it though. 2-3 years less won't make much difference either. The thing that baffles me is how companies were complaining they couldn't "innovate" because the last consoles were so long in the tooth, yet at the same time games are so expensive to make these days they can't afford to take risks anyway.

I know games are supposed to be cheaper to make with these new consoles but I just don't buy that it'll make a difference in the long run. I know they'll just end up taking whatever they'd have saved and "investing" it back into their games. I do hope I'm dead wrong of course.

StarDust4Ever

#201

StarDust4Ever said:

A wise man once said, "there are two types of untruths in this world: lies, and statistics." -source unknown

Pod

#202

Pod said:

I would be nice if players and developers were more exited for the Wii U, but they can unfortunately not be forced.

They'll have to see something that excites them.

mullen

#203

mullen said:

At the beginning I was surprised the low number 3DS got. But think about it more, I think it's reasonable. Why? (In addition to that someone already pointed out the porting difficulty) Because large company in US can earn more from other systems, and small developers / indie developers can't survive on 3DS totally due to NOA! I mean, does any of you really notice most of the 3rd-party/indie eShop games on 3DS? I know you may be able to name some of them, but still very likely to ignore most of others, not because their quality, but because they have no way to be exposed. They are hide deeply in the eShop, not being recommended in anyway; it's possible that the only way you can locate them is directly searching their names, unless they're just released and you check the recently released channel regularly (I don't know how many of you do that every week; it takes several seconds or even up to minutes loading). Everything you can easily find in eShop are 1st-party or from other large companies. The reason I blame NOA is because JP eShop is much better. They also advertise games from small companies or indie games. There are much more demos (almost more than 3 demos every week) and encourage you to play demos by providing 5 club coins for each demo. There's a release note every week in eShop to let you know the updates (open instantly, no need to wait for loading), not only the newly released games, but also any game info updates before or after it released. You could also notice more channels for such games. To sum up, if a small developer put a game on NA eShop, it's more likely that no one even know its existing. That also explains why there're more developers for PSV in US, which system has poor sales number.
Hope NOA can notice that and do more for those developers and titles.

GameBroJeremy

#204

GameBroJeremy said:

Oh no... this might be a good indication that third party's DON'T want anything to do with Nintendo anymore. PS Vita has higher focus for companies then the 3DS?! BS! It is selling way more then the Vita (Then again, the vita is copying the Wii U's second screen with the PS4). Nintendo better start realizing that 84% first party titles is not going to be an answer for making the vast majority of the income. They will have to start following trends in gaming while also keeping their beloved first party titles at a steady pace. The more kinds of games you make, the more customers you'll reel in.

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