News Article

Talking Point: The Wii U's 'Relevance' Is About Sales, Nintendo's Strategy Has Remained Consistent

Posted by Thomas Whitehead

It's tried to stick to a winning Wii formula

Last week was a bit grim for Nintendo and its followers, as it changed from an official stance of predicting a positive year to the polar opposite. Gone were optimistic projections aligned with profits, and in their place were lower numbers — distressingly so with Wii U — and predicted losses. Positive spin wasn't possible and Nintendo didn't even try it, with Satoru Iwata stating that there would be changes of strategy, that he planned to oversee them as President, and while admitting the company would continue to explore avenues such as smart devices — the company's been saying this for a while — it won't necessarily be a case of enabling Mario to move on smartphones.

Like any company that's had a major disappointment, changes will be afoot and we can expect an interesting few months — and beyond — as we see what Nintendo does next. We've seen the company take bold moves in the past, most recently when it drastically chopped the 3DS price in 2011 and, with that act, took plenty of heat but facilitated a recovery. Nintendo dropped its principle of hardware breaking even to bring the system down to a sustainable market value; its new price combined with major releases to increase its desirability. Calls for a similar-sized drop for Wii U — or another smaller one to add to that of Autumn / Fall 2013 — are not unreasonable in that sense, as Nintendo could aim to hit the sweet spot to increase interest. This would have to combine with games, but there is a 3DS template, nevertheless.

Sometimes bold decisions backfire, with one example being the call to stick to cartridges on the Nintendo 64 — less loading times than discs, but very expensive. Nintendo has misjudged marketplaces before, taken some serious licks, and then gone again. Case in point is the transition from GameCube to Wii, which brought Nintendo roaring back into the home console market.

Now let's think about the Wii in some broad terms. It was underpowered — in raw CPU / GPU / general graphics terms — compared to its rivals, it was sold at a price profitable to Nintendo and it created its own trends of third-party support. With some exceptions the system missed out on the majority of triple-A multi-platform titles over a number of years, simply due to the discrepancy in capabilities compared to Xbox 360 and PS3. It's easy to forget just how different the system was compared to its rivals: before Kinect and Move arrived its controls were unique, and it was definitively SD in a world that was moving onto HD.

Detractors used to carp about the Wii being GameCube 1.5, but from Nintendo's perspective that generation showed it that raw power wasn't necessarily the key to success — it was all about the concept. We would bet that you wouldn't have to go far in 2005 to find someone saying that Nintendo was doomed to fail with a motion-controlled, relatively modest piece of kit — their arguments wouldn't have been unreasonable, either. Yet it stuck, with products such as Wii Sports and Wii Fit capturing imaginations; it was also a cheaper, more family-friendly option.

The Wii U is now over a year old and, as all logical evidence makes clear, it's suffering through an entirely different and difficult lifespan. Aspects of its specifications were always inevitable, such as the step-up to HD, and Nintendo's hook this time around was to tap into a craze for tablet devices — here's the GamePad, a controller and touch screen, perfectly integrated with the system for dual screen gaming. The thinking behind it is clear, as any market research you'd care to read observes that families and individuals spend a lot of time staring at smart devices — the GamePad tries to tap into that modern trend through a central living room device. Again, though, like Wii, its capabilities in the raw matter of producing polygons and visual effects is — by relatively established consensus — somewhere between the last-gen systems and the latest offerings from Sony and Microsoft.

So the Wii and Wii U have obvious similarities.

  • Wii is weaker, in terms of graphical tech, than Xbox 360 and PS3. Wii U, likewise, with PS4 and One.
  • Both have unique control setups, compared to the standard controllers of their rivals.
  • Both are missing many of the biggest multi-platform games.

There are differences that have been major negatives for the Wii U, naturally. A few — though not all — include the price, as Nintendo's business model of seeking profits per unit meant that the Wii U was not as affordable in early days as Wii. Its original price reflected poorly against cheap PS3 and 360 models on the market, and the worst issue was that lightening didn't strike. The Wii concept sold a lot of pricey Balance Boards and plenty of the inexpensive actual systems, but the Wii U didn't have that immediate impact.

What's surprising is much of what's been said about Nintendo's 'strategy' is that it's changed since the glory days of Wii. Well, not really. Nintendo's been prioritising its own hardware designs and ideas over third-parties since the Nintendo 64 days, and it gave up on producing the most powerful machines with the Wii, at the latest. That's not to say that's a good thing, but Nintendo often makes adjustments to its strategy while sticking to core principles, even in 'dark days'. As we've highlighted in our article last week, too, the figures show that Nintendo's handheld market is the consistent area — now smaller with evolution in technology — as the console business is rather more boom and bust.

We'd highlight that the home console market is a cyclical business, too, with companies making mistakes, learning from them and improving second time around. Early in the PS3 / Xbox 360 battle Sony's system struggled due to its high price and Cell technology giving developers headaches — the 360 was cheaper and various games ran that bit better on its hardware. In latter years the PS3 has caught up, courtesy of some excellent exclusive software, rapid drops in price and various factors. Yet with PS4, Sony came in at the cheaper price and with hardware that bit more powerful and easy for developers. Microsoft has gone the other way, with a higher price — Kinect says hi — and examples where its games are at a lower resolution or not quite as fancy as on PS4. Sony made errors and has switched it up, and Microsoft switched its approach and is in a more equal fight with Sony's system from the get-go, with PS4 leading the sales race so far.

With each generation hardware companies, including Nintendo, look at their results and various trends and they make a pitch at glory. Nintendo nailed it with Wii, but a combination of factors have meant that the same success hasn't followed with Wii U. We can point to plenty of reasons for this, but that's the way it is. But this isn't new or shockingly different from past occasions where Nintendo has needed to reassess, it's just that the opinion around it is more abundant and louder — that's the internet.

It's interesting that some refer to the Wii U's discrepancies in raw power and third-party content as some kind of strategic failure — that overlooks years of the company's history. If the Wii U sells more — through potential price cuts, new SKU structures, more games, and/or a combination of all three — then we'll likely see some additional third-party efforts. It's very simple, when Nintendo consoles sell (Wii) some interesting third-party exclusives arrive, but not all of the big multi-platform games. When sales are disappointing, these third-party games are far less frequent.

Nintendo will assess and make moves to improve its Wii U prospects and, yes, will consider important lessons when moving forward with the home console, 3DS, external devices and its next hardware projects. Yet let's remember that the sticks that beat the Wii U are the same sticks that could apply to Wii and GameCube. The key differentiator is that Wii sold well, so the well-worn attacks existed but had less bite.

Nintendo's made mistakes recently and before, it will make them again. Yet it's not suddenly ignored third-party concerns or gone with a concept that has failed to capture the market — it's just done it again. Its actions to rectify and improve matters for months and years to come will define it, but the consumer market is complicated, and Nintendo unsurprisingly tried to replicate the Wii trick with the Wii U. It's a funny old world that's constantly evolving, however, and to date lightning just hasn't struck twice.

More Stories

User Comments (219)

Jayvir

#1

Jayvir said:

I'm fairly convinced that even if Nintendo did everything right, that they would still be in the same boat as they are now. Look how many people go on and on about "colorful immature kiddy games". It's the reputation that Nintendo has that is killing them, not necessarily the missteps in hardware/software.

Shiryu

#3

Shiryu said:

I'm just here to play video games and will not continue to do so to the same extend and passion in a world without Nintendo hardware. The Wii U is but one year old, the games are coming, I am patient even if this entire generation of gamers isn't and (as per usual) media lives of tragedy and speculation.

TheAdrock

#4

TheAdrock said:

Wii U was supposed to recapture a piece of the "mature gamer" audience with a next-gen HD console. BUT THE U IS GROSSLY UNDERPOWERED, and everybody knows it. If the U were comparably powered to the other next gens, and was not so difficult to port to, then Nintendo would have a chance. This is elementary. N has the "family/kid" position, but where's the crossover to the casual parent who wants to shoot Muslims or hookers (or whatever violent games they want)? N failed to cross into that mature zone, and until they can compete on the same grounds as Sony/MS they will suffer. Time for a new console, mega high powered, easy to develop for (port to, etc), build around developer needs, and maintain all the familiar Nintendo Wii features. Then a cross-over may begin to happen. Until then you're just an also-ran console for kids.

Anguspuss

#9

Anguspuss said:

Well due bulk ps4 games getting delayed. I canceled pre order & bought a wiiu.
Loved every minute with it. The off screen gameplay the fact it has games I can play with my family. It is almost silent & it dosent take up half the house. Have you seen the bloody xbox one & WTF the kinect 2 jesus wept have you seen the size of the bugger.
But the biggest but Nintendo totally cocked up the launch. The name I get but it should have been called the WII2 the u or somthing.

rjejr

#10

rjejr said:

"lightening didn't strike"

Fit so nice you had to say it twice. :-)

Innovation is good, but maybe the Wii was so successful they should have just come out w/ a low priced Wii HD 2 years ago and just kept the ball rolling. Hindsight is 20/20 though.

BTW - I am not advocating dropping the Gamepad, it's too late for that, they just need to utilize it more.

BTW - Ninendo must have known this bad news was coming out for a few weeks now, where's their good news response? That's really peculiar that they knew this news was coming but they haven't even announced a new ND yet. Where's the positive spin? Or new game announcment. Or bundle? Or price drop? They lowered Wii U from 9m to 2.8m w/o any attempt at sugar coating or smoke and mirrors or distraction.

I said this last week - its all "white flag" waving. Where's the cavalry?

(BTW - 3rd and final - Nintendo has too much $ and IP for it to be doomed, but the Wii U ...)

gatorboi352

#11

gatorboi352 said:

"We can point to plenty of reasons for this, but that's the way it is. But this isn't new or shockingly different from past occasions where Nintendo has needed to reassess"

Something I haven't seen discussed very much at all during these recent Wii U doom and gloom stories is WHY. WHY is Nintendo constantly having to reassess? People knock Playstation for sticking to the norm and the same (Dual Shock controller design for example) yet, they also don't need to reassess at all.

Outside of the Wii's 'lightning in a bottle' success, it's been all downward trends for Nintendo's home console market. They are slowly becoming the BlackBerry of video game manufacturers.

XFsWorld

#12

XFsWorld said:

@FineLerv Yeah kids ain't the same anymore, it use to be "cool"having a Game Boy to show off at skool. Now it's just "cool" having a PSP or Vita.

Really, it's too late for Nintendo to change their image.

brucelebnd

#13

brucelebnd said:

it's the price. a lot of parents would have bought it for Christmas but the $299 price tag was a bit too much. $50 wasn't enough

like it or not the Wii U is perceived as last gen but it's price doesn't reflect that. you can get a PS3 or 360 for $199.

I think the Wii U at launch cost $189 to make. so why not just reduce the price to $199 maybe $250 for a Mario Bundle.

people bought the Wii because almost anyone could afford it. once the Wii U's price goes down people will buy it

real_gamer

#14

real_gamer said:

I think the Wii U is fine the way it is. Sure it is not as powerful as the PS4 or XboxOne but it has power in it nonetheless. What I think they did wrong from the start is only show one commercial that focus on the gamepad. Remember the Super Mario Bros. U commercial? Yeah it didn't send the right message at all to consumers. Also the Wii U really didn't have any commercials or marketing backup. Rayman was not a exclusive no more then the Wii U had the drought and Pikmin escaped the launch window and...you see where I am going with this. The Wii U was not handle very well from the start and now Nintendo is in trouble.

Stargazer

#15

Stargazer said:

@ XFsWorld

On what planet is it cool to own a Vita? Sony's failures with Vita are similar to Nintendo's with the Wii U (poor name, poor advertising and marketing, caught in an awkward position where current efforts can't be easily ported to it, lack of compelling exclusives)

cdude

#16

cdude said:

I disagree with nintendos 'it worked on wii' approach because the wiiu has none of the driving factors that made the wii the success it was and this has been obvious since the name was revealed and still proves to confuse the hell out of consumers and general media.

Pretending reality is something other than what it is always proves to futile, regardless of how much money you have in the bank. No game that can come out for this sytem is reversing the fortunes that nintendos seen fit to sow for themselves because almost all these same titles made appearances on gamecube and no one cared.

They had a real solid opportunity to win every gamer back over to their side with the wii and they instead opted to release a series of full priced minigame demos one year at a time until the vast majority of gamers had enough and bought a console not based around the 'lowest amount of effort possible to succeed'

I, like many of you, was foolish enough to believe them this time when they said things would be different and after a year of nothing but delays, disappointment and mario, i'm saying 'never again' and i mean it.

Apologize all you want for nintendo, nothing changes the fact that they released a console with no plans to seriously support it while fully expecting nintendoland, of all things, to carry it the first YEAR.

F em, i say.

bmprsvz777

#17

bmprsvz777 said:

What saved 3DS? Pricedrop and nice games. The same works for Wii U. All they have to do is decrease price and produce killer applications... Easy to say, hard to do, of course. But they accomplished it before, so there is still som hope left.

Xiao_Pai

#18

Xiao_Pai said:

What bugs me is that everyone has forgotten what Nintendo said last year involving Tropical Freeze. Which is the reason why I still think Nintendo has nothing to worry about this year.

Agent721

#19

Agent721 said:

Nintendo cant expect to compete without 1) sports games, 2) huge 3rd party exclusives & 3) full online suite. The PS4 & Xbone would have the same problem if they had the same shortcomings. I don't believe having the best graphics is key...but having a full choice of gaming options is. How is minecraft NOT on the Wii U??!!! How are not all big tablet games on the Wii U?

zool

#20

zool said:

Simple, a controller helped sell the Wii. Any one who could operate a TV remote could play Wii games, that's how Nintendo sold the Wii. Then the balance board came along and more people bought the Wii as an exercise machine. Those 'gimmicks' or 'ideas' worked at the time, but do not apply to the Wii U.

People now have even simpler controls on their tablets and smartphones. And balance boards are now stored away and gathering dust.

The Wii u Gamepad seems to be another gimmick or idea, but this time has not caught on. Most games are not any better for having the extra screen.

Also Nintendo seem to be making its games for families with multi controllers and not so much the single Nintendo 'gamer'.

More effort should have been put into single player games and not try and make every game a multi player game. Super Mario 3d land is a good example.

2Sang

#21

2Sang said:

nintendo was due for a failure in the console wars. Next gen I bet they'll be on top again or at least a strong second.

HyperSonicEXE

#22

HyperSonicEXE said:

At the Wii U's launch, Nintendo was very proud about toting how they "listened" to smaller third-party developers regarding the Wii U's specs, and what would be most affordable and beneficial to their development. It's almost comical, now, that Nintendo is surprised that it's losing market share to the major third-party developers that draw crowds and sell consoles, who are complaining about the lack of spec. To make things worse, small devs seem to have some trouble working with Nintendo's kits, and big devs won't be able to keep up their big budgets much longer.

Thankfully, a lot of those AAA games aren't worth noting to Nintendo's Blue Ocean strategy and core market, and after many generations of trying to work with and appease third-party developers with much confusion and missed sales projections, bringing them in-house is the right move (so long as the new IP's and quality are well-managed).

WaveWarlock

#27

WaveWarlock said:

@Jayvir

Except, those grey & brown mindless Post Appocalyptic realistic BroShooter interactive movies with kindergarten diffiiculty designed for the tweenager in mind are the 'kiddie' games. ;)

I have a 14 year old cousin who plays nothing but these games, has since the release of the PS2 when he was a toddler. I handed him an NES controller, and he spent almost an hour trying to beat the first level of Contra.... He couldn't do it. Clearly, he's not playing with power. ;)

Anybody who releates whimsical, cheerie and colorful videogames to being 'kiddie' is a complete moron. I better stop watching pixar, disney and every single cartoon known to man because they support color schemes that go beyond shades of brown, grey and black. Heck, growing up i never had that ridiculous mentality. I played everything when i was a teenager, from mario, mega man, resident evil, silent hill, Kirby, you name it. Nintendo's entire kiddy image didn't strike me until people started to downplay the gamecube....I guess it's awesome 'purple' color didn't help it.

Videogames are toys, why do people feel the need to prove their masculinity behind a silly videogame of all things. If you don't like those colorful vibrant fansty based titles then that's fine, but don't deem them childish because the character isn't some rugged Jar Head with an AK 47 strapped to his soldier dripping with blood.

The world is already filled with torture, war, violence and what have you, why are people so hung up on experiencing it 24/7 in the gaming world? I need a little joy in my life(with a splash of 'horror' gaming wise), this is where Nintendo comes into play Vs the Sony death machine 4 and XWar Machine one.

AdanVC

#28

AdanVC said:

Another great article, Thomas! The battle has not been lost yet, I remember that once the 3DS had it's first price-drop and games like Super Mario 3D Land and Mario Kart 7 start arriving it's when the handheld started to sell well and let's remember that 3DS was having a lot of hate with the "doomed" thing as well...

So if we compare the Wii U, Super Mario 3D World is out now and is one of the best 3D Marios ever, but 3D Mario is not much of a system seller, now, Mario Kart 8 is coming soon and THAT is a true system seller, and I'm 100% confident Nintendo is not gonna screw up this time, meaning, they would do tons of proper marketing and bring commercials for the game everywhere, and a Wii U + MK8 bundle would be more than perfect. I found difficult it can have another price-drop at this point but if it happens is more than welcome. A big Nintendo Direct could happen anytime soon, maybe in early february so they can announce the release date of MK8 and of course more key titles for Wii U and new unnanounced games! It's not all lost.

Spoony_Tech

#29

Spoony_Tech said:

I still say instead of making drastic changes they will somehow use China as their saving grace! Not sure if that will work but it wont be going forward but side stepping. I don't know if they no what change is or how to implement it. They need to hire dare i say a prominent western devloper to help steer them in the right direction and actually listen to them.

TruenoGT

#30

TruenoGT said:

Regardless of what happens, I just hope the Gamepad concept lives on (either via a resurgent Wii U or a future product) because it's been my favorite gaming innovation since pointer controls. If all games ever available were on just one platform, I'd pick the Wii U to be that platform.

Many people just really negatively react to change and want predictable evolution... Beyond just gamers, businesses like stability and Nintendo is the anti-stability. It's like an artist challenging the status quo, but "the man" is trying to beat it back into conformity. I hope Nintendo can still be Nintendo while still making the money to keep their wild-side alive.

sdcazares1980

#31

sdcazares1980 said:

Sorry, but the "winning" Wii formula only appears once in a blue moon. The casual gamer was the biggest demographic, and they've jumped ship to tablets and smartphones.

If the relevance is about sales, then Nintendo's consoles have been lousy about it for 2 of the past 3 generations, with this in danger of becoming 3 of the last 4.

Anguspuss

#32

Anguspuss said:

Agent721 said:
Nintendo cant expect to compete without 1) sports games, 2) huge 3rd party exclusives & 3) full online suite.

1 Sports games you could always play fifa legacy wii edition on it. Im really going to miss my annual rehash of madden & Fifa. Dont even get me started on NHL.(no season but a new game that year??????).
2. 3rd party exclusives are thin on the ground & only if you pay lots of cash or own the studio.
3. full online suite. Most of the time on 360 you ended up playing against annoying yank kids.

I really dont think Nintendo is competing against the x1/ps4. They made it quite clear with the wii they wherent getting involved in the biggest spec race.

The 3ds must be so much more advanced than the vita to be killing it.
The 3ds has well has a hand full of sportgames including the great FIFA 14 Legacy edition. Damn you in the uk that made us put its just a kit update on the box.

DarkKirby

#33

DarkKirby said:

The problem with the Wii U's sales is exactly that Nintendo tried to replicate the success of the Wii to the casual market that no longer cared about the Wii with the Wii U, and the casual market STILL doesn't care about the Wii or the Wii U. They've moved on the smartphones and tablet games, and try as Nintendo might, they are not coming back. Was the Game Pad really to try to replicate a tablet? Because it fails really hard at that. And that's coming from someone who would never pay for a tablet (give one to me for free, sure, I'll use it) because I think it's far too expensive for only being able to do what my smartphone already does.

And as stated in the title, Nintendo's strategy with its home consoles has remained consistent, even though it hasn't worked for years.

fascinatura

#34

fascinatura said:

@theadrock13 "also ran kid's console"? Who? Microsoft or Sony? Nah, Nintendo would have an "also ran" if it did a high powered console like you're suggesting. Nintendo is targeting a demographic that is sensitive to price.

Caryslan

#35

Caryslan said:

Why does every one keep bringing up the 3DS and its turnaround? The home console and handheld business are two seperate things for Nintendo. Nintendo is the undisputed king of handhelds, and has held that title since the Game Boy back in 1989. Only two handhelds had any measure of success against Nintendo's handhelds over the years. and the Game Gear and PSP still sold well below the Nintendo handhelds. Nintendo controls the handheld market, and can bascially mold it anyway they see fit. Yes the 3DS sold poorly when it launched, but that's because Nintendo tried to bleed money out of consumers and had a weak launch lineup. It was also in a market where the PSP was in its twilight years and the Vita was a year away. Nintendo had all the time in the world to quickly correct mistakes and get third-parties onboard.

The Home Console market is a totally different market. Nintendo competes with two powerful competitors in this market, whose influence is arguably greater that Nintendo's. On top of that, Nintendo launched the Wii U into a market where the PS3 and Xbox 360 were still going strong and brining in new buyers.

Nintendo is not the king of the home console market, and its much harder for them to mold the market in the fashion that they want when Sony and Microsoft are doing the same thing, and are appealing to third-party developers better than Nintendo has.

This is the thing, Nintendo does not have the freedom in the home console market that they do in the handheld market. They are competing in a crowded market against two established systems(PS3 and Xbox 360) that are still getting major titles, and two newer systems that will get major titles like Halo 5 this year.

Nintendo could take some time to get things started in the handheld market, because even with the 3DS' early troubles, where were third-party developers going to go? Their only options were smart phones, the PSP, or the Vita. In other words, their choices were a platform that favors cheaper games, a platforms that was past its glory days, or an unproven handheld that had yet to launched. Nintendo could fix their problems with the 3DS without having to worry about their competitors taking advantage of their mistakes.

The Wii U does not have the luxury. Nintendo blew their chances, and it will be harder for them to get back into things. Yes, Smash Bros and Mario Kart 8 will launch this year on the Wii U. And yes, those games will help! But keep in mind, the Xbox One is getting Halo 5 this year, and the PS4 will also get some heavy hitters as well. Its not like Microsoft and Sony are going to sit on the sidelines and not do anything. The second wave of games are coming to those platforms, and it will only serve to make things harder on Nintendo. That's also not taking into account the fact that the PS3 and Xbox 360 still have a presence in the market as well.

I'm not saying the Wii U is a bad system and I'm not a hater, but thinking it will have a 3DS style turnaround is a foolish notion. The Handheld and home console markets are two separate things, and they can't really be compared. Nintendo is the King of the Handheld market, while on consoles, they are another contender fighting for a slice of the pie.

And the other contenders will start getting their own heavy hitters very soon.

fascinatura

#37

fascinatura said:

Honestly, I think the casual market (really, this market is "everyone else" outside of enthusiast gamers, and these people have various interests that can be met with interactive media) is not a lost cause yet. The Wii U just isn't a great value proposition---yet. They really need to start bringing media to their console that people will care about and I mean BEYOND Nintendo first party titles. Maybe a bundle with Wii Fit U + Permanent passes to Tennis, Bowling, and Golf in Wii Sports Club? Bundle SiNG Party and Just Dance 2014. Get exclusive games and apps that boast IPs like Dr. Who, Twilight, Star Wars, Disney, etc. Oh yeah, and why has Wii Fit U been launched so quietly? That's a mistake.

hosokawasamurai

#38

hosokawasamurai said:

@Agent721

I'll add something here. How can Metal Gear Solid V not be on the Wii U? That game is going to have second screen functionality on Xbox systems.

Untitled

Darknyht

#39

Darknyht said:

They can fix it, but they need time they no longer have. While there are branches creating the next Zelda, Mario, Metroid, and other big title franchises; Nintendo needed to be turning out more Pokemon Rumble U, Dr. Luigi, NES Remix games to fill in the gaps. Take a risk and turn out a game for a lesser franchise (Excite Bike, Golden Sun, Star Tropics, Custom Robo) in the $10-20 price range.

Sceptic

#40

Sceptic said:

WiiU wasn't a bold decision. It was incredibly vain and arrogant. And then they tried to puff it up with lies and hot air ("soon", "just wait", "patience", blabla), a scheme the market obviously saw through a lot better than I did back then.

How are the same clowns that so stubbornly refused to see the emperor had no clothes right up until the very end going to improve the situation?

I'm totally with @Caryslan. They are way out of their depth here and the game is over. It's too late.

What they can still try to compete with is the nVidia Shield and the likes. Let the WiiU die quietly five years from now and bring out the controller as a mobile device.

SavoirFaire

#41

SavoirFaire said:

What about online services? Wii U hasn't caught up to XBL or PSN yet. To me this is one of nintendos biggest issues. Sure living room game nights are fun, but so is online play and they aren't mutually exclusive. When I see the kids playing mine craft with each other, it is pretty obvious graphics isn't what they are there for. It's the fun of playing with your friends for an hour at night after your homework is done or whatnot. This is largely not possible with a Nintendo system, and it needs to be.

So says someone that is still shocked Pikmin 3 had no online multiplayer. It will be the solid online experiences that save the Wii U, so let's hope MK8 and SSB get it right!

DilMan33

#42

DilMan33 said:

You could tell at E3 2012 that Nintendo were not expecting the Wii U to match the sucess of the Wii.
I see no option for Nintendo but to continue to see out the Wii U for the next 3-4 years with compelling 1st party output. Then, what they do after that will be interesting.

Nintendo are investing in online services, like eshop, miiVerse and the latest Nintendo Network ID surely points that in the right direction.

SphericalCrusher

#43

SphericalCrusher said:

Good read. I believe the WiiU will start selling once more games come. Take December for instant — Mario 3D World helped this console out, as DK TF will and many more games. A price drop would also help, if they could afford it. All of this came from 3DS strategy. Bad launch + price drop + more games = best selling console at this moment.

MEGAMAN_D

#44

MEGAMAN_D said:

It just needs that ONE game and the right marketing for THAT game.

Look what goldeneye did for the N64.

AJWolfTill

#45

AJWolfTill said:

I think the problem is still the games available. I love my Wii U but there isn't anything on it so far which is a huge jump forward. The leap from 2d to 3d zelda and mario was astonishing enough, the Gamecube with some truly stunning games which looked better than anything that had come before (Rogue Squadron 2, Smash Bros). The Wii and Ds brought about these motion based games such as Trauma Centre and Wii Sports which played like nothing before it. 3ds didn't start out with anything fresh, but the quality of titles later on has rescued it. So far the Wii U only has experiences which are updates of pre-existing things. This will not draw in anyone who is not already converted.
Nintendo just needs to bring out things which couldn't have existed on anything else. I also want to see more sophisticated mature story based releases. (NO this does not mean uber violence and sex).
Shouldn't the January Direct have been announced by now?

fascinatura

#46

fascinatura said:

More traditional style games, even if they are excellent and Nintendo IPs, won't make the Wii U a success. It didn't work for the Gamecube or the N64 yet only kept them afloat. So far Nintendo has been very weak in trying to attract the market they had with the Wii probably because they thought the Wii brand alone would do the work. They only just now started marketing to families with commercials. Sales have been up since October but it is obvious that Nintendo was expecting an absolutely massive Christmas following the improved game library and price cut. However, that didn't happen although Christmas sales were decent. But I just don't buy that there is nothing Nintendo can do about the Wii U anymore. IMO they haven't even done much yet. They need to start aggressively pursuing partnerships and exclusive content (both GAMES and APPS.) Wii Street U and Art Academy are amazing apps. They need more like this and get the ball rolling for 3rd party devs to develop for Wii U. Also, the Wii is still relevant... Disney Infinity, Skylanders, and Just Dance 2014 also sold the best on the original Wii of all the consoles. Nintendo needs to make sure this market doesn't move on to PS4 for Just Dance 2015. Get to work, Nintendo.

Goginho

#47

Goginho said:

@theadrock13 You know, that's a good point. Either they do something like that, or they invest in their own 'simulation of third party games', meaning, they use all the profit they made so far, and create many different teams and studios (however that works in the video game industry). Having all these different 1st and 2nd party development teams and studios, they could create lots of new games and franchises that would, not necessarily replicate, but rival the ones that are out there on different consoles. That way, Nintendo would have the variety you suggested, being able to compete with the likes, and they would be able to maintain their traditional policy of putting out affordable consoles with less power, because honestly, I wouldn't want them to create an inessentially over-power system that ends up being arguably over-priced, just so they could reel in some of the more 'mature' developers.
Metroid is a good start. That's something that already exists and simply needs a revival. I see that franchise as somewhat of a competitor against the Halo series. Same as Star Fox, a really polished space shooter. Now, I don't exactly know what game Star Fox could go against, as I don't follow games on other platforms, but it's nevertheless a bit more 'mature' than the usual (colourful Marios), despite having anthropomorphic animals :P
This would be merely a start. They would need their own FPS, realistic racing game (or simulator, w/e)...etc..

The thing that frustrates me the at the moment with Nintendo is, how they do 'kiddify' some things. I don't mind it for the most part, but if you look at somethinng like GTA vs. Lego City, clearly Lego City is going for a Nintendo version of an open world sandbox game, but that doesn't flow with the majority today, like GTA does. So there's a gap in the gaming library there. If they can't get GTA V to their console, then they create Lego City -.- hmm..sure, I don't mind, it's fun, but there needs to be that little extra imo.. Similar with Pikmin, although more successful I can imagine, but it seems like a more playful and innocent version of the strategy games found on the PC and what not. This is absolutely fine, but it's basically the only one, and it obviously doesn't work for the majority of the 'mature' audiences who prefer seeing blood, dragons and aliens and all that good stuff in their RPG games.
Zombie U is a decent example of what I'm talking about, as it's a game that's going in the right direction with this concept. A dark, mature game, exclusively for Nintendo, competing against all those Zombie shooters on other platforms (that are clearly not for kids). What ever happened to the Conkers? Conker's Bad Fur Day is a game that sticks out, and despite not having sold a lot (for obvious reasons) back in the day, I find that a game with such a unique and shamless tone would resonate well today, what with all the crude sh** you can find on the internet and generally in media nowadays, I mean, back then many things were taboo in a way, but today, our boundaries have kind of gotten narrower, and we see people caring less, showing much less shame, I guess. So a game like CBFD would do Nintendo good. Look at all those actual kiddies, who are acting all 'mature', yelling, screaming, copying and inventing swear words and insults...etc.. It's all made possible through the technological advancements that have been made in the past ten years or so, where practically everything has become accessible, where every twelve-year-old can find anything on the internet, hear from others, and even see on TV, thus gain bad role models, examples, negative influences and what not. As unfortunate as it sounds for our decaying society, a crude, toilet humour game like Conker's Bad Fur Day could benefit the Wii U, as it would appeal to all those 'mature' gamers, who afraid of losing their apparent 'macho' by playing the colourful and innocent Marios, Pikmins and what not.
I know Nintendo have established themselves as a company that practises morals and puts [the dying] family values before, trying to create a less hateful community, and I fully respect that, but there needs to be some sort of balance in order to be more successful as a business company. It's OK to go overboard again, and publish some Conkers again imo..

So all in all, instead of creating powerful and expensive consoles to be able to directly compete against PS and XB, by having the third party games come to them, they could put the money they made toward internal expansion (if that makes any sense), establishing new teams and studios within their headquarters that would cover games of the same nature found on other consoles, thus becoming indirectly able to compete against PS, XB, PC and whatever. I hope my theory seems valid in any way, since I don't really know how the whole video game business works. I just play the games :P

Basically, I just wish Nintendo experiment more. Create their own legitimate games of existing ones found on other systems, that don't end up 'kiddified' for a change. Create a competitor for Gran Turismo, a competitor for Halo, for this...for that. PS successfully did that, with the likes of Crash Bandicoot, Jak_and Dexter, Ratchet and Clank_, amongst others. Why should Nintendo feel too proud to reciprocate some of the better competing games out there?

theberrage

#48

theberrage said:

Here is all that needs to be said (and I have said over and over): Nintendo needs more quality software.
Just think, if GTA 5 was a Nintendo exclusive, do you think we would be talking "Nintendoomed"?

TheAdrock

#49

TheAdrock said:

@Goginho , True.
And as @theberrage just said ^ if they had great games that everybody wanted to play then ppl will buy a Nintendo. So either make a console that developers want to develop for, or be your own developer and hit home runs.
I'm not convinced that Nintendo has the ability, money, or willingness to risk their entire business to engage in a massive push to develop 10 wicked games for a console that the public perception is already established on: "an underpowered last-gen failure".

Goginho

#50

Goginho said:

@Goginho Although, I do have to add, that Conker's Bad Fur Day isn't all that superficial as it may seem at first. There is a clear lesson to be learned under all the crude jokes and mature (immature) content presented, but what kid cares for the morale of the story nowadays? Same thing for Majora's Mask, it's seen as a very deep, emotional, and touching game that teaches us some life lessons, but for many young ones, it's merely just another Zelda game, swinging your sword, solving puzzles, going through dungeons and defeating enemies, that's it.
So I guess I was talking about the more superficial aspect a game like Conker's Bad Fur Day presents, which would resonate well with, not only a more mature crowd, but the hardcores players that 'belong' to other consoles, as well as those 'cool grown-up' pre-teens.

Just wanted to add that real quick :)

jjx1000

#51

jjx1000 said:

The Wii was a sales anomaly. Nintendo had been losing approximately 30% of its traditional gaming customers with each new home console release and the Wii U is right inline with this trend when comparing it to the Gamecube. Wii U will probably end up selling 10-15 million consoles in it's lifetime.

Also the underpowered argument irks me. If the game looks great in HD and the gameplay is terrific why does it matter what's going on inside the actual box. I can understand a developer caring but some gamers get too hung up on horsepower.

Goginho

#53

Goginho said:

@theadrock13 True. I sure hope they come up with a couple games this gen that really stick out and don't end up being that 'typical* Nintendo game all those other gamers want to avoid like the pest. We'll have to wait and see.

jmax

#55

jmax said:

@Jayvir Your comment makes very little sense. How then, would you explain the roaring success of the Nintendo Wii, which outsold both the Xbox360 and the PS3? Nintendo's offerings and their average age demographic for 1st party content certainly have not suddenly changed. The issues that Nintendo is facing with the WiiU system have very little to do with this.

electrolite77

#57

electrolite77 said:

You were close to hitting the problem but not quite. Wii U has fallen between two markets. It doesn't have the power/online/third-party support to pull players away from Sony or MS. It doesn't have the cheap price to be bought as a second console. Anyone who thought the Gamepad would have the same impact as the Wiimote on non-gamers, or that Nintendo Land would emulate Wii Sports success on that front, should be fired immediately.

Bliquid

#58

Bliquid said:

Very nice read.
I wish heads at Nintendo read it, because the major problem with the WiiU is they never listen to anyone and never stick their nose out of the window.

jmax

#59

jmax said:

@jjx1000 The Wii was not a sales anomaly; it wasn't by some mysterious force that the Wii did well, nor was it the only time that Nintendo has succeeded. Nintendo read the market perfectly and competently developed and launched the system. The NES was a big hit, and so was the Super Nintendo. The N64 and GameCube didn't match those sales, but it would be hard to argue either of them are real 'failures' (neither are to the extent of failure as the Virtual Boy).

Some generations are huge successes, others are average, and others are below average; that's just the way it goes. No company can completely predict the markets and either they do an above average job at trying, or they don't.

That all said, I would be the first in line to agree that some major changes are required at Nintendo. Their software is great (it always has been and likely always will be), but the WiiU, conceptually, really stuck out in the worst possible way, from a mile away (even down to the very first reveal). They just need to re-group, support the WiiU (which absolutely still does have some great potential, even if it likely will never be a huge success for Nintendo), and then start to re-think the markets and come out swinging again (as they always do).

jmax

#60

jmax said:

@bezerker99 That's a pretty bold statement. Nothing on the PS4 or Xbox One is helping to sell their systems is any extraordinary way, although nobody is out proclaiming that they are doomed. My point is that just because NintendoLand wasn't a smashing success as Wii Sports was, does not mean that the system is "doomed". Successful launch software is always welcome and can certainly help sales, but it is not an absolute requirement.

MikeLove

#61

MikeLove said:

@jmax

The Wii was known for being aimed at casual players and kids/grandparents. That belief (which is well warranted) has carried over to their current console.

The "motion gaming" craze Nintendo created proved to be a fad, with it never again reaching the level of success it enjoyed between 2006-2009. The Wii WAS an anomaly, and this can be seen by just looking at the sales figures for Nintendo's last consoles.

N64 sold the least of any Nintendo home console to that point, then the GameCube sold even less than that, the Wii was lightning in a bottle and sold a ton, and now the Wii-U is on pace to sell even less than either the N64 or GameCube. That absolutely proves that the Wii was the exception. Nintendo home console sales have been on a steep decline since 1996, minus the Wii years.

MikeLove

#62

MikeLove said:

@jmax

The PS4 and Xbox sold nearly as many units in 2 months as the Wii-U has in 14 months. Let that sink in...

Those consoles sell on brand name alone, because people know that you will get cutting edge technology and big flashy games. With Nintendo, you get a few great games a year, but overall its still viewed as a "toy" for kids.

jmax

#64

jmax said:

@JohnRedcorn

How is the belief that the WiiU is aimed at casual players and kids/grandparents well-warranted? The WiiU does not feature a 'casual' controller shaped and designed to be similiar to a television remote, the system did not debut at a real 'mass-market' price, and NintendoLand software is quite a bit more complex and niche when compared to the Wii Sports. I do not understand how players would believe that the WiiU is aimed at casuals. Even Nintendo made great efforts to explain that this was now a new system for 'everyone' including 'hardcore' gamers.

Motion gaming is arguably not a fad. Not only was it copied by both of Nintendo's competitors during the Wii generation, but both Sony and Microsoft are continuing to utilize motion controls in both of their next generation systems.

samuraigaiden

#65

samuraigaiden said:

I believe the Wii U's lackluster 1st year was caused by the Wii's disastrous last 3 years. If Nintendo had properly supported the Wii with quality games during the end of it's life cycle, things would not look so bad for them now. In fact, in Japan, where they released Xenoblade 2 years earlier, Pandora's Tower 2 years earlier, The Last Story 1 year and a half earlier, not to mention games like Disaster: Day of Crisis, Project Zero 2: Wii Edition, Zangeki no Reginleiv, Zero: Tsukihami no Kamen, which didn't ever saw the light of day in the West, well in Japan the Wii U is doing better relatively to how it's doing elsewhere in the world. Wonder why?

jmax

#66

jmax said:

@JohnRedcorn I am not arguing the fact that the PS4 and XboxOne have sold systems faster than the WiiU. I said only that the relative 'miss' of NintendoLand does not specifically doom Nintendo's system.

3MonthBeef

#67

3MonthBeef said:

It will be interesting to see how PS4 and Xbone sells this coming holiday season. The major titles have been released now with a few more coming in the summer/fall time frame. What we saw during the past holiday I think was more pent up curiosity expressed into knee jerk reaction purchases. In short I think they'll experience the same down trend as Nintendo as people begin to ask, "Why should i buy this when....<insert reason>?"

MikeLove

#68

MikeLove said:

@jmax

"How is the belief that the WiiU is aimed at casual players and kids/grandparents well-warranted?"

Does this look like something a 16-30 year old gamer would be interested in, or something that is even aimed at them? It's a joke. It looks like a toy for geeks. That ad only reconfirms peoples belief that Nintendo is for kids.

jmax

#69

jmax said:

@3MonthBeef

It will be. To be honest, I actually expect that Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft to all have a very successful Holiday 2014. Nintendo will actually have several new AAA titles under its belt and by then the system purchases should become a bit more justified, and Sony and Microsoft will also have a better library as well for those who held off from buying at launch.

We'll see, though! Hopefully they all do well.

jmax

#70

jmax said:

@JohnRedcorn

How exactly are you defining 'casual'? 'Casual' isn't necessary defined by an age group and nothing more; you can have casual 16-30 year old gamers and you can have 16-30 year old hardcore gamers.

That said, what you are pointing out one of the reasons why the WiiU is not doing well. They designed a system that is arguably "NOT" for casuals, while they are attempting to market it in a way that still appeals to a casual group of gamers.

It is problem, indeed. The WiiU is conceptually very weak and it is no surprise that marketing is struggling to figure out what to do with it. Although, at least they are marketing now .... lol

Doma

#71

Doma said:

I think everybody should watch this video and compare Reggie's words to the reality of today. Prepare yourselves for an irony overload.

tovare

#72

tovare said:

The Wii U will play out the same as the Wii for me. 1. Buy the console early. 2. Wait for games and get cool ones as soon as they get out. 3. Saturate collection with too much to play (I'm almost there with the wii u) 4. Suddenly years has passed and a new console is out. 5. Goto 1

Aggregated use in my family beats the original Wii, but that's due to the second screen and Netflix / Youtube.

Thats-what-shy

#75

Thats-what-shy said:

I absolutely LOVE my Wii U. It's an amazing machine with an elegant interface, loads of features and fantastic games.
All this piling-on and negativity is puzzling and disheartening.

micronean

#77

micronean said:

I think the causes of Nintendo's failure (if one can call it that) are pretty simple. Today's 3rd party games are effectively PC software. They are just reluctantly "dumbed down" for consoles in order to recoup production costs.

Nintendo is not a PC-centric maker. Therefore, they get shunned, and worse, Console-centric software development has woefully diminished the last 10 years.

Should Nintendo change their philosophy, and allow for the PC-gamers to infiltrate its environment? I, for one, hope not.

theberrage

#78

theberrage said:

@Thats-what-she I don't doubt that it's a great system. However, the numbers don't lie, it has been a sales failure. So far it has been a near wasted opportunity.

Dogpigfish

#79

Dogpigfish said:

Their model has always been expensive full price games on an inexpensive system, so the price of entry was easy for consumers. Today it's a very expensive cost of entry and expensive software. The real fans will buy, but the majority of market share are parents and simply don't want to spend $300 on just a game console. It's going to get more difficult as cheaper systems enter the market with inexpensive software. Granted the quality will be less, but with a Minecraft or Terraria, Nintendo is going to have to change quickly.

gatorboi352

#82

gatorboi352 said:

Gamecube got great games over its entire life span, and dropped to $99 in its first year. It ended up with 21 million consoles sold.

Why will Wii U's fortunes reverse again?

Squiggle55

#83

Squiggle55 said:

Nintendo needs to focus on the gamers. I think they tried their hardest to convince the casuals that they need to buy a Wii U even though they just bought a Wii to play Wii Sports with the grandkids. This is absolutely futile. The Wii got lucky. Those people aren't buying another console this decade.

Thats-what-shy

#84

Thats-what-shy said:

@theberrage The early criticism was certainly warranted but Nintendo has now built the Wii U into a wonderful system. It just feels like the early hate (and I was part of that group) is continuing for sake of continuing without actual examination of the current console, which is now as good as any of the other consoles, but that initial momentum of negativity seems uninterested in taking a second look at the Wii U and, thus, is unfortunately affecting consumer opinion.

gatorboi352

#85

gatorboi352 said:

@Squiggle I agree. They are forever after this "family gaming" angle. Outside of Wii Sports (like the original Wii Sports from 2006) I have never played a game with my entire family.

Stop catering to an audience that does not exist, Nintendo.

gatorboi352

#86

gatorboi352 said:

@Thats-what-she You nailed it. I've been saying for months, perception is reality and Nintendo's perception has forever doomed the Wii U outside of die hard Nintendo fans.

gregrout

#87

gregrout said:

The Wii-U is artificially "cheaper" than next gen consoles. This will hold true for Wii owners. But if you're starting from scratch, you're looking at additional expenses like Wii controllers, numchucks, pro controllers and balance boards. If you plan to be able to play anything that comes down the pipe there a lot of hidden costs to the Wii-U that the other consoles don't have.

gatorboi352

#88

gatorboi352 said:

I can guarantee you this much: The next home console from Nintendo won't have the 'Wii' branding associated with it.

AyeHaley

#91

AyeHaley said:

I don't think Nintendo would do any better why releasing hardware just like the PS4/X1.

Mahe

#92

Mahe said:

The Wii formula? The Wii U is following a completely different formula compared to Wii, and it's failing because of it.

ajcismo

#94

ajcismo said:

Nintendo has always touted the fact that they march to their own beat... and it worked for quite a long time. Of course, until now. Really the last 3 years or so. Changing what you've been doing as a business philosophy for decades can't be easy. I'd love to see what the overall mood is over in Kyoto right now, especially amongst the people down in the trenches. It is still all about the games in the end, no matter what direction they decide to go. Morale is important and I don't want to see it affect the future products.

gatorboi352

#95

gatorboi352 said:

The only way Nintendo is going to become a serious contender in the home console business again is if they shore up their 3rd party relations. Outside of the Wii, their home console business has been on a steady decline. Gamers want sports games. Gamers want GTA. Gamers want Call of Duty. And they want all of these things ON ONE CONSOLE. Having COD but not GTA or sports isn't helping.

Times have changed, the western audience and the western tastes rule the land and that's not my opinion, that's fact. Iwata said as much the other day; they misinterpreted the western market.

TheRealThanos

#96

TheRealThanos said:

@ThomasBW84 Good article, interesting read. However, I do not agree with the part about the GamePad. Especially the sentence "and Nintendo's hook this time around was to tap into a craze for tablet devices" is a prime example of a misnomer that the media and various other misinformed outlets pounded on like a pack of wolves on a sheep. The GamePad is anything but a tablet since it lacks ALL the core conditions to be labeled as such. What it is, in combination with the rest of the hardware and your TV screen, is an evolution or rather amalgamation of the DS and Wii family and so the Wii U is actually a giant, detached Nintendo DS, where your TV simply acts as the top screen and EXACTLY like the DS, the bottom half aka the GamePad has the touch screen and button controls. Anyway, you more than likely will know that just as well as I do, but the perpetuation of this myth throughout the several media, that certainly isn't helping people understand the true concept of Wii U either.
@WaveBoy Well said. Nintendo is the ONLY company in video gaming that is able to plaster even a 40+ adult's face with the most genuine ear to ear grin just from the fun that oozes out of every pore of their games the moment you start playing them. And THAT is called "The Nintendo Difference"
@theadrock13 I'd call that being very critical/negative. GROSSLY underpowered is GROSSLY overreacted. The Wii was about 8 to 10 times weaker overall than it's competitors, and the Wii U is about 3 to 4,5 times (maximum) weaker than it's competitors, meaning that with it's first HD outing, Nintendo has closed last generations' gap by 50% so the difference isn't as big anymore. All major engines are scalable, even to a point of being able to put them on medium spec smart phones, and since there's still a 1080p/60fps cap, there is actually no valid reason WHATSOEVER to not put third party games on Wii U power wise. It is plain and simple a money thing and they need to get out of this catch 22 situation (installed base<->third parties) well before the end of this financial year by seriously fixing their marketing approach and in doing so, people will be more aware, installed base will grow, that in turn will bring back third parties because there will be less financial risks involved in putting their games on it and so on and so on: Tadàà! Upward spiral...
@Thats-what-she some good points, and it is indeed disheartening AND tiresome to keep seeing news like this. Here's to a turnaround in the coming months.
@JohnRedcorn Seriously?

"Those consoles sell on brand name alone, because people know that you will get cutting edge technology"

My 5 year old gaming PC says hello and walks all over that "cutting edge" technology. And making your point using an almost 6 month old commercial isn't helping either. That being said, as a fellow Nintendo fan (which I assume you are to some degree, why else be here?) I can understand the frustration/irritation speaking through your comments. Feel free to correct me if I misread that.
@gatorboi352 I can see what you are getting at (and towards Nintendo it does have some merit) but in general, perception is NOT reality. Perception actually hurts/undermines reality because it makes everybody see/hear or read something else and skewed views are VERY hard to synchronize to each other, making the act of reaching common ground almost unattainable. Of course ONLY reality is reality. Perception is simply an individually warped version of the truth...
P.S.
Although a lot of people only buy one console now, doesn't mean they won't buy a second later on. They did so last generation, and generously so. Economics have changed and people have less money, but eventually a substantial part of console gamers will buy a second system. If only for some of the larger exclusives.
@ajcismo I don't see them changing that any time soon. They will have to make changes to some degree, but I don't think they are ready to completely give up their unique identity, so in one way or another, they will remain on the Nintendo course that they themselves plotted. Only change is that, in light of recent happenings, they have to make a small detour...

ThomasBW84Admin

#97

ThomasBW84 said:

@TheRealThanos I agree that, in terms of its practical capabilities, the GamePad isn't actually a tablet. I think its form factor plays up to that role though, and I think Nintendo may have seen the proliferation of smart devices and second screen ideas and thought to take it to another, game focused level. I recall Iwata in a pre-E3 2012 Direct (I think that was the one) going into a speech about screens in the living room, showing family members staring at phones and tablets. The Wii U was supposed to be a unifying thing that brought those separate screen experiences together. I'd have to look around for the video, but I seem to remember it.

TheRealThanos

#98

TheRealThanos said:

@ThomasBW84 True, and I recall that speech too, but my point was that Nintendo only "borrows" from it's own technology to make their new ones with, and there is actually always a part of the old tech to be found in the new.
In my humble opinion that was also what Iwata was referring to, only using what was in the living room as an example and then showing Nintendo's own solution to that: The DS form factor. Something that was already there before the whole tablet craze.
Of course the way you mentioned it was still rather mild. On some sites catch phrases like "Nintendo iPad", "kiddy tablet" and "smart phone controller" have propped up.
I also never saw anyone call a DS/DSi/3DS a tablet handheld, so why they are so quick to judge the Wii U GamePad as one can be both stupidly simple or brilliantly baffling... (the latter of course to me)

mikeymaster2001

#99

mikeymaster2001 said:

I have an idea guys(and gals). Let's solve Nintendo's problems by criticizing them by punching a keyboard with our sweaty fingers, while hunched over looking at a bright screen. I really hope that in everyone's comments, whether positive or negative, they realize that Mr. Iwata and the decision makers probably don't read through the comment boards of Western video game websites. No offense to anybody, but I hope they realize whatever we may learn, or not learn, by discussing it here, it doesn't affect Nintendo's decisions at all. So hopefully no one is actually getting upset by circumstances they have no control over.

TheRealThanos

#102

TheRealThanos said:

@ajcismo more likely taking heat from them. The other two are not really listening to fans either, let's not kid ourselves. They are only listening to the money. Microsoft sticking to the original plans would have hurt them on that level, and Sony incorporating the camera would make them more expensive or at the least AS expensive as Microsoft, so they ditched the camera from the standard package and could offer the console for less.
@mikeymaster2001 You did make me sit upright though, and almost made me wash my hands, right before I remembered I already did that... ;)
Besides all that, most of us are just exchanging/sharing opinions, and some try to enforce them by, for example, apparently not knowing the difference between fact and opinion ("it is" vs I "think it is") but other than that, it's mostly harmless fun or spending of ones' spare time. Which is probably why you are also here...

mikeymaster2001

#103

mikeymaster2001 said:

@TheRealThanos
Agreed. I just have a hard time understanding why some people get so negative, or doom and gloom, or upset, or even angry over.......what are basically toys. A hobby, meant to be for fun. I also have a hard time understanding why some people try to speak with authority on something they are completely clueless on (armchair analysts; how to run a global company; .......so basically most of the internet's attitude on any subject.) So maybe it was more of a comment on silly or utterly ineffective internet/gaming idiosyncrasies in general. Which are found in abundance here lol.

hotlfusion

#105

hotlfusion said:

@Caryslan
I agree with you 100%.
All the 3DS has to deal with in the handheld console market is the VIta/PSP, a relatively weak competitor.
The Wii U on the other hand is fighting the PS3 and x360 (two systems many believe it is not even as powerful as) which are cheaper, and the PS4 and X1which are newer, more desirable and will outsell the it in a matter of a few short months.
The 3DS early problems and recovery is nothing to be proud of. It was the start of Nintendo's woos. To be forced to drastically cut the price of a product so soon after launch severely impacts on your revenue and savages your financial forecast. It had to be done however.
I like my wii u and I am sure that Nintendo will support it for at least three more years, I can't wait for the games to come. My reality however tells me that the wii u will be lucky to sell as many units as the GameCube in what is a much harsher competition.
BTW Everyone is entitled to voice their opinion. Rather it be over a toy or politics. It's a forum, that's the whole purpose of a forum's existence.
Yes some people do get a bit steamed up over such thing for my liking but to each his own.

JaxonH

#107

JaxonH said:

@brucelebnd

Wii U is only "perceived" last gen by hardcore Sony and Microsoft fanatics. Contrary to popular internet misconceptions, the VAST, VAST majority of all gamers, Nintendo, Sony AND MS, are not hardcore. They do not game for a hobby. They do not go to fan sites. They don't know how powerful Wii U is compared to other consoles. They most likely don't even know what a generation is. All they know is new consoles are out.

Your logic is based on the false assumption that the majority of console owners are core gamers, and fanatics at that. The number of core gamers is a slim piece of the pie, and the number of core gamers that would actually reject a console simply because something else more powerful exists, not taking into account what that console brings to the table in terms of value for price, exclusives, and new gameplay, is even smaller.

kereke12

#108

kereke12 said:

Nintendo doesn't NEED to put there games on mobile devices, What Nintendo needs to do. Is market the Wii U, start making more games, change there online system, try to bring a more mature environment. Make more new ips.

TheRealThanos

#109

TheRealThanos said:

@mikeymaster2001 Yeah, it can be pretty weird sometimes seeing people fight over consoles, but since I can only speak for myself I don't know what reasons they have for hating on consoles. For me Nintendo is both a toy but also part of my childhood and I have grown up with almost all of their consoles (except the Virtual Boy) and handhelds, so in a way, coming from Pong & Atari2600 at the age of 5, Nintendo opened a world for me with a lot more games and things than I had seen before and it did shape a part of me. And for a fact they truly ARE the last video game giant on this earth that are both making games AND hardware exclusively tailored to each other. The other two are young in comparison and the only other parties I would include in the giants list (divided in first and second gen) are Magnavox, Colecovision, and Atari in the first and Sega in the second.
As for being an armchair expert: I deem myself one, but less so than others. (then again: I would say that, wouldn't I?) The reasons why are mainly because I'm old and I've played most consoles when they actually came to market (and not tens of years later because someones mom bought a NES at a garage sale instead of a brand new N64 at the store) so I lived through nearly the entire time line of video game history, and I am an IT Sales and Marketing professional, with almost 13 years of experience under my belt, so from that perspective I can indeed shed somewhat of a professional light on things, regardless of what some people may think of that. Marketing in the console industry really isn't all that different from marketing in the IT business, after all. (or any business, for that matter) The same rules apply in general, there are only branch related differences. And what goes for me also (in my opinion) goes for programmers, game developers and so on. None of us may have eyes inside Nintendo, but we can comment from experience and the knowledge that we have. Some of us here are the true armchair kings, but I'd pass reacting to one of their comments most of the time, because they are either too young to even begin to understand or because they are too set in their minds/ways to even be open to anyone else's opinion.

JaxonH

#111

JaxonH said:

Look, I know everyone thinks they know what "Nintendo needs". They need this, they need that, they need more power, they need 3rd parties, etc.

Fact is, Nintendo will NEVER be a mainstay for AAA 3rd party support. Never. The gulf keeps widening. And because of that, they're going to have a much smaller piece of the home console market. Several members have already pointed out that with the exception of the Wii, Nintendo's home console marketshare has considerably declined.

But I would argue that that's ok. Let Nintendo keep a 20-50 million install base for their home consoles. Cause like I said, AAA support is gone. It's done. It's impossible to get the support, because without all of it, they'll get close to none of it. Without everyone on board, people will still choose Sony/MS for gaming 3rd party. So that's a lost cause. Might as well stop complaining about it.

BUT, that doesn't mean Nintendo can't keep a decent install base around that of the Gamecube and N64, maybe even a little more. Even without AAA support, they can still produce a very enticing library of a different color to rival platforms. Most of which is exclusive due to Nintendo's 1st party games. Games which, after all, can go toe to toe with the best of the industry. Not everyone feels like playing some Hollywood blockbuster all the time. And not everyone LIKES those kinds of games. There is still demand for the Nintendo platform, Nintendo games, and the excellent 3rd party exclusives they always seem to secure.

Nintendo may never again have as high of a home console market share as the 3rd party consoles. But so what. Let them do their own thing. Let them have their own following. You like Nintendo games and the unique ways in which you can play them, buy Nintendo. You like 3rd party, buy Sony or MS. You like both, buy both. I bought a Wii U for Nintendo's excellent games, and I'm more than pleased. If people would stop worrying about the politics of gaming, and gave more focus to actually gaming, we'd have a lot less controversy and negativity.

JaxonH

#114

JaxonH said:

@TheRealThanos

Thank you good sir. Everybody's flustered about the state of Nintendo... I'm just counting down how many days left until Bravely Default and Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze arrive in the mail. Man, that DKC is lookin GOOD! Sawmill Thrill, Bramble Scramble, Grassland Grove... I can hardly contain the excitement!

electrolite77

#115

electrolite77 said:

@mikeymaster2001

"I also have a hard time understanding why some people try to speak with authority on something they are completely clueless on (armchair analysts; how to run a global company"

The same reasons people discuss other businesses, sport, art, politics. Everyone has an opinion, you don't have to be an expert to have an opinion and the guys running things? They aren't necessarily right.

TheRealThanos

#117

TheRealThanos said:

@JaxonH You're welcome. And DKC indeed DOES look good, doesn't it? Just Watched the extended "GotGame" hands-on (http://blip.tv/gotgame/20-uncut-minutes-of-donkey-kong-country-tropical-freeze-6718988) and it is indeed coming along very nicely. I like the little things they added such as circling around the level and moving in and out of the screen both horizontally and vertically. It all adds to the overall atmosphere and of course the improved graphics top it off.

JaxonH

#118

JaxonH said:

@TheRealThanos

Yeah I watched that yesterday actually- the game looks top notch, just superb! I love that new water mine cart thingy in Saw Mill Thrill. The mechanic where you sink under the water shortly after jumping with it will make for some interesting gameplay in later levels I imagine...

Kirk

#119

Kirk said:

The real error here is in thinking that if the Wii U sells much more units miraculously, or was even a bigger sales success from the start, that the relatively recent strategy of releasing these under powered, under featured and under supported (by third parties) systems is actually a "good" strategy.

I'm telling you that whether the result is great sales and apparent "success" for Nintendo, as was the case with Wii, or bad sales and apparent "failure", as with the Wii U for now, that the strategy is inherently flawed/bad.

From before the Wii was even released this has been a flawed strategy that has placed short term fleeting success based on not entirely satisfying gimmicks over long term sustained success, genuine consumer satisfaction and continued brand loyalty; and that was, is and always will be bad strategy for any business that creates entertainment products and services as far as I see it.

The idea that gaining a quick easy buck in the short term is worth losing customers in the long term is just ridiculous but that is exactly what I think was on the cards from before the Wii was ever released and certainly became apparent to me a very short time after the Wii was released and it was clear it wasn't quite the "Revolution" we were all promised. Well certainly not the kind of product "revolution" that leaves you a totally satisfied and happy customer at the end of the day at least.

Lightning didn't strike twice because this time most of us saw the "lightning" coming, based on previous experience (for most of us firsthand), and imo wisely moved out of the way.

mikeymaster2001

#120

mikeymaster2001 said:

@electrolite77

I wasn't talking about expressing opinions. I'm talking about the people who present their opinions, and try to present themselves as authorities with experience on the subject, whose opinions automatically discredit others. I dunno, maybe we read people differently(as well as you can read people by their words via text). Maybe it's just a quirk that's noticeable to me, or maybe it's just me lol. But that's the way it sometimes comes across, in my view.

TheRealThanos

#121

TheRealThanos said:

@Kirk If having the most powerful hardware truly would be the be all and end all, then by that comparison, Ferrari would win the Formula One championship every single time. But since they don't...

Kirk

#122

Kirk said:

@TheRealThanos

I never said it was only about having the most powerful hardware.

That's just you putting two and two together and getting three.

TheRealThanos

#123

TheRealThanos said:

@Kirk Nah, I'm older and smarter than that... ;)
But seriously: your "underpowered" statement seemed to hint at that. Sorry to have read you wrong, but all that we all have from each other on NLife is text and that is interpretable in more ways than one, even if we ourselves think that it can only be read exactly as we meant it. I've experienced that more than once myself.

Kirk

#125

Kirk said:

@TheRealThanos

But it REALLY didn't hint at that at all.

It alluded to the fact the Wii U was lacking in MULTIPLE areas; not just in terms of graphics power, which it is also lacking in.

Wii U's problem isn't being "underpowered". It's problem is the lack of power as well as EVERYTHING else it gets wrong, falls short on or just disappoints with.

The Wii U is failing hard and it's because of ALL the MULTIPLE things it does wrong (and additionally all the things Wii did wrong before it); graphics tech and power, features and functionality, support, price, branding and marketing, previous disappointment and frustration with Nintendo's last home console, etc etc etc...

thanos316

#126

thanos316 said:

im tired of seeing just dance adverts or smiling families playing the wii u with big smiles. i wanna see a beast of a game. if they wanna see some sales, then they have to put out some games. plain and simple

midnafanboy

#127

midnafanboy said:

okay im sick and tired of seeing stupid families playing mario i want nintendo to make a comercial that shows mario or zelda or smash bros game play not families play the game smiling or anything cheese like they did with skyward sword they should take this seriously now cause this isnt 1996 no more

Kirk

#128

Kirk said:

@midnafanboy

I hear ya.

What we want is this kind of thing again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NElFLzgdUs

Surely everyone, even mums and dads, can enjoy this kind of ad and it actually does these games some kind of justice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evI5pF5h8Ck (the better original version but sadly I can't find a full version of this one, that contains the original line about playing like a girl, or a version where the video isn't really low quality)

TheRealThanos

#129

TheRealThanos said:

@GN004Nadleeh Might be for some, but the prices of the other consoles would argue against that. Buying a Wii U and then having it gather dust because there aren't enough games to play on it is indeed a waste of money, but if there was a large or even a decent library of games. then the initial investment would have been justified.
@Kirk I hope you know what back up the truck means, but otherwise: that's why I said 'seemed'. It is like I said: text you typed is read by someone else and they might get something completely different out of it. No offense meant, though.
I agree with you on the other two things, but with what we should all factually know and should be able to digest logically, the power debate is a non-issue. Allow me to recap in as short a version as I can: all consoles are HD, have a 1080p/60fps cap, all game engines that matter for current and future game development are scalable and have been officially confirmed by either developers of said engines themselves or third parties to run, even on older Wii U dev kits. Now, you cannot and will not convince me that an engine that could be downsized to run on a smart phone won't run on Wii U. The only trade off that I could see, both technically and logically is that the more advanced effects of said engines need to be switched off, less things will be happening on the screen at the same time (as for example in multiplayer) and levels could either be smaller, or loaded in parts instead of at once. If we can have lo-res versions of Call of Duty on Wii, then we could easily have 'slightly less HD' versions of all the current and upcoming FPS's and adventure games on Wii U. The GPGPU is also heavily underestimated. My guess is that Project CARS will be one of the first games that will make people start to wonder about the Wii U in a more positive way, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
The solution to their problem is setting up the first domino stone in such a way that once tipped, the effect of it will make all other stones fall in the right direction as well. And of course that first stone is a vastly improved marketing plan that might even incorporate the, for some of us, so all important second price slash.
Maybe just wait and see what kind of press conference (if any) Nintendo is going to give somewhere in the coming weeks. And if they do, then let's hope that the plans will be to our liking and we can all start to talk about what Nintendo did right with the Wii U...

Nintendobro

#130

Nintendobro said:

@gatorboi352 Why should Nintendo talk to those crappy 3rd parties? They don't want to work with Nintendo period. They hate Nintendo. God you people are treating them like gods.

jjx1000

#131

jjx1000 said:

@jmax You're right, by anomaly I don't mean to imply that Nintendo was lucky, they read the landscape put out a console that had widespread appeal and it sold ridiculously well...heck...my 70 year old parents even bought one. I guess by anomaly I mean not traditional. So my point is if you look at the sales and exclude the Wii, the sales trend for Wii U is line with what previous traditional Nintendo home consoles have done...a 30% decrease in users from the previous console.

Kirk

#132

Kirk said:

"let's hope that the plans will be to our liking and we can all start to talk about what Nintendo did right with the Wii U..."

Well that's certainly the optimistic approach but for me I don't think that's going to be the reality.

My personal opinion and thinking at this point is that when this gen comes to an end I will find the Wii U just as disappointing an all-round system as I did the Wii.

Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised but I'm not optimistic.

jhohaness

#133

jhohaness said:

@WaveBoy you can say whatever you want but I know many gamers and most of them don't buy Nintendo console because they say is too kid friendly so being percived as childish doesn't help... and I myself would love to see Nintendo making as many games for the mature audience as they do for the kid familly friendly market...I'm a little tired of them just making games fitted for 10 year old children...

TheRealThanos

#134

TheRealThanos said:

@Kirk Well, in and of itself there's absolutely nothing wrong with a healthy dose of realism. Pessimism on the other hand...
I meant to say that things can turn around to a degree, provided they REALLY start working at that from now on. As a sales and marketing guy, I always look at turnabouts or profit projections based on a fiscal year, and for Nintendo that means march 2015 is either time to pop a cork or bury the Wii U. And of course long before that, during the course of this year we should see the first signs of that going either way. But until then, it is pretty useless to already hand out final verdicts. And if the Wii U comes close to or ties even with GameCube sales at the end of it's run, then regardless of what you or I think of it, it will still have made money for Nintendo. Maybe not as much as intended, but still...
And it is the final result that matters. Years after, people only remember what has been achieved in the end, like a football match: it can be a disaster of a game with only one goal, but if the team wins the cup with it, then in the end that is all that matters because the final result is what will be written in the club's records. Nintendo isn't going to win any cups this time around, but they still have time to make it a moderate success.

unrandomsam

#135

unrandomsam said:

@TheRealThanos The thing is the third party multiplatform developers we are talking about always put in the least possible effort. (Otherwise everything on the PS3 would be a lot better than the same thing on the 360). The PC gets the minimum amount of effort possible as well. Expecting anything else just won't happen. It could but it is so unlikely I think it easier to just presume it won't.

TheRealThanos

#136

TheRealThanos said:

@unrandomsam Very true, but a much bigger installed base will be a good enough alternative or will at the very least get the ball rolling. Right now, the Wii U has both those things against it. Developers are, like us, only people and will want to put in the effort if the rewards are accordingly. Right now they aren't so they are not going to risk putting the effort in of making and publishing their game, knowing that it will only generate moderate sales at best. Unless Nintendo is willing to accommodate them financially, and that is of course not going to happen. But something's definitely gotta give, and I have a gut feeling that some sort of big announcement is going to come before the end of February.

IceClimbers

#137

IceClimbers said:

Unrelated, but Pokemon Bank has been re-released on the Japanese eShop. I repeat, Pokemon Bank has been re-released on the Japanese eShop. No word on an international release, though Nintendo won't say anything in advance and will release it silently so that servers aren't as stressed.

unrandomsam

#138

unrandomsam said:

@jhohaness Funny thing is the 10 year olds I know want to play GTA5 that is what they want to play - some are allowed some aren't but if they could play anything that is what I would be. I would say the so called mature games generally attract immature people to them. I don't like the way Nintendo has destroyed the difficulty level though since the GBA and early DS times trying to cater for a group of people who are gone at the expense of the people still buying their games.

TheRealThanos

#139

TheRealThanos said:

@unrandomsam Yeah, I was also thinking about that. Other than most of them not being able to stand the 'ugly' graphics for more than a minute, I'm also willing to bet that hardly anyone from the current generation of young gamers is able to finish the first three Mario games, not even if their lives depended on it. The label of hardcore gamers is so overrated nowadays...

LDXD

#140

LDXD said:

@Kirk I know the Wii u has its problems like lack of 3rd party support, lack of 1st party support, no head phone jack in the pro controller, no anolog triggers, extremely bad virtual console and online overall. But being underpowered? Seriously that's just your bad opinion, where is the proof that its underpowered? Under powered being it will not be able to even run upcoming games not just being weaker technically
the problems I've mentioned can be fixed
The Wii u offers off screen play, couch co-op new ways to play, backwards compatibility with not only games but controllers, free freaking internet I'll take all that before a slightly better looking game any day
Looks like Nintendo should stop doing all this awesome stuff and offer us a blu-ray player and 8 gigs of ram throw in some micro transactions and rip us off with dlc that's what's more important nowadays anyway

WaveWarlock

#141

WaveWarlock said:

@jhohaness
So Metroid isn't for the mature audience? Intelligent game design like LOZ for ex i'd say is for the mature audience. And this is nintendo here, aka the disney of video games. They're not interested in creating realistic overly violent video games. Mario, Metroid, Zelda ect ect are all universal.

These so called mature titles being spewed on those other twins typically offer 'chilish' difficulty, hand holding, save points every 5 minutes, and an overabundance of tutorials. To me, they're not really even videogames anymore. Go play some contra, Ninja Gaiden, Mega Man, Castlevania ect ect on the NES, you may actually grow some hair on your chest instead of messing with these so called matureZ video games that any 5 year old could complete with a blind fold on.....

I see the PS4 and XBOX 1 as casual consoles, for the younger, more immature & unexperienced gamer in mind. Battlefield alone is becoming a trend, along with COD. Celeberties love that sh** They don't even play games, but when you say Battlefield or Call of Duty, it's on! Durp!

Also the wii was outstanding imo, beats the pants off of the N64 and GCN. I can't speak on behalf of the Wii U since I've only played around with it at a Best Buy Kiosk. The Wii U game pad was pretty darn neat and it felt awesome in the hands.

Obito_Tennyson

#142

Obito_Tennyson said:

Am I only who finds it funny that the game of the year is Assassin's Creed Liberations on the PSVita which just got an HD release for XBox, PS, and PC? Yeah, if you have a PS4, XBone, or PC, then there's no reason to get another one of those unless you want the exclusives. And don't tell me that you would like to have an XBone because of the exclusives...

Nintendo is the master of exclusives. I don't care what Steam has to be offer, but with all the Virtual Console software and exclusive IPs that Nintendo publish, then PC only matches it by illegally using emulators. Sure, you have enormous servers and modifications on software which is unavailable due to the limitations of the Wii U, but if you were to take the original unmodified software on the PC, then most games couldn't match Nintendo's software. (i.e. Super Smash Bros which is a masterpiece) By the way, I'm talking about the exclusives.

TheRealThanos

#143

TheRealThanos said:

@WaveBoy Achievements like "friendly fire" (for inadvertently shooting someone in your co-op team) and "completed the tutorial" come to mind. And don't even get me started on the "get yourself killed on purpose" type of achievements...

Senario

#144

Senario said:

@midnafanboy To be fair I am sick of PS commercials and Xbox commercials showing multimedia functions or live action interpretations of games without showing any gameplay. It goes both ways but whether or not it is actually bad is debatable.

unrandomsam

#145

unrandomsam said:

@Obito_Tennyson Anything that is only 60fps on the PC might as well be PC exclusive as far as I am concerned or games where the current Arcade machine is a PC.

There is nothing really illegal about emulators anyway as long as you dump your own cartridges with e.g a Retrode.

Sega licensed an existing PC Emulator for all the Megadrive stuff they put on Steam (Which is a pretty diverse interesting selection.)

The amount saved on the best versions of the games more than pays for the hardware needed.

If Nintendo used Donkey Kong Country Returns and All Stars Racing Transformed (Steam version) as a template of a reasonable difficulty the situation would be very different for me.

Or King of Fighters XIII of how to make a good fighting game (Or even Melee which I quite liked - don't like fighting games that reward button mashing at all like brawl does).

DualWielding

#146

DualWielding said:

Part of the Wii success was that Nintendo managed to fool a lot of people with it, but those that were fooled are the most reluctant to buy a Wii U... it was also helped by Sony's terrible strategy during the PS3 launch which motivated people who did not really trust Microsoft who had yet to have a real foot on the console market to give Nintendo another chance

DualWielding

#147

DualWielding said:

@Obito_Tennyson

Nintendo maybe is the masters of exclusives when it comes to handhelds but In home consoles Sony has a much better lineup as exclusives...... The PS3 already has a better list of exclusives than the Wii ever did and there are still a good number upcoming while the Wii is dead... if you only talk the present PS3 had much better exclusives than Wii U this year

Tritonus

#148

Tritonus said:

@electrolite77 misjudgement, yes. Arrogance? I think that's a bit harsh. Nintendo didn't exactly expect Pikmin 3 and Rayman Legends to get delayed, as well as they didn't expect EA to jump ship. As well as Sonic Lost World and W101 to not have an impact.

What Nintendo should take away from this, for the next console and handheld launches, is that they need to launch with killer Nintendo games. ie, a 3D mario and a 3D Zelda, and maybe one of the Mii games, like wii party / wii sports. Their timing has been off for a while now on that. (Wii was amazing with Twilight Princess and Wii Sports though). They need that kind of line up.

Nntndo_1986

#149

Nntndo_1986 said:

@gatorboi352 wow haven't thought of that at all but makes soooo much sense. My wife's uncle years ago' circa 2007 (iPhone first year) was so hyped he had bought black berry stock. Lol the conversations I had with the guy about trying to forget that and just go with apple stock but he resisted. I remember thinking I wish I had the loot to go in at apple with 500 buck for like 80 dollars each share. Anyway beside the point... And back to it. Nintendo has this nostalgic feeling that old school gamers have had. Most younger kids also probably get into it until they learn Pokemon is something they can do with just a portable and get a more powerful console to play "older type" games. God bless ninty for trying to remain like they were in 1990 but that just doesn't work in a time when things are moving so fast paced.

meltendo

#150

meltendo said:

All I want are great, adventurous games and Nintendo hasn't delivered...yet. Give us the more open-world joy of Mario 64 or Metroid Prime. I feel like every release lately has Nintendo holding our hands (linear gameplay, too many hints about what to do next). C'mon Nintendo--deliver the games some of us want. I will die if the next big game announced is another 2D Mario.

DualWielding

#151

DualWielding said:

@Tritonus

There was a lot of arrogance, they try to deny it now but I'm pretty sure they thought Nintendo Land and the Gamepad gimmick was all they needed to sell the console like the Wii Mote and Wii Sports was for the Wii

midnafanboy

#152

midnafanboy said:

@Kirk i just saw the video now thats a trailer for a amazing game why cant they bring that back showing how amazing there games are with gameplay and amazing music not with freaking families playing the game smiling that i bet dont even know what there playing im just tired of it thats why people thinks the wiiu and nintendo is a joke i dont im just hoping they change

N64ever

#153

N64ever said:

I've always enjoyed Nintendo's titles way more than the others. I feel if I want a 3rd party title from any of the other consoles today I have my choice of sport game or shooter game both on the same system where the difference is not content but whether or not one has more pixels than the other. The variety seems to be disappearing for 3rd party developers on these consoles which is what Sony and Microsoft seem to rely on way too much in my opinion. Hence why I love Nintendo for their unique games. I feel they will turn the tide for gamers who want a nice fun game that doesn't have you constantly shooting heads off. And will be a nice offering to parents with limited budgets and could care less about how many pixels or frames per second one game has over the other. I do hope they bring back more open world games. I miss those a lot from the N64 days.

midnafanboy

#154

midnafanboy said:

@Nintendobro were not prasing the third party support some people cant forget that reggie said they would do better with third party support and bring them back and he said the wiiu is now going to be about the gamer that was a lie im just saying we need them to show people that others have faith for the wiiu dont say ubisoft cause there only making games for the wiiu cause they have pity for it and now the wiiu is on there own yay.

DualWielding

#155

DualWielding said:

@N64ever

I don't really get how people can claim Nintendo offers more diversity compared to the 360/PS3, they have diversity on the DS/3DS but the Wii/Wii U is basically platformers and party games and only one or two token titles for other genres.....

People talk about shooters and sports, but other genres are also were completely missing from the Wii, did the Wii get any 1 on 1 fighting games at all? what about Western RPGs (yah I know they are much better pc but apparently there are lot of people who want to play them on consoles), JRPGs? Wii got xenoblade but thats just one title (fire emblem is strategy rather than a traditional jrpg), What about Indy games? if you only had a Wii last gen you missed on stuff like Limbo, The Walking Dead, among many other;

and I could go on, Nintendo's library lacks variety because of no third party support and because Nintendo own first party lineup is not very diverse (compared to Sony's at least, not really familiar with Microsoft's first party lineup) and because some of Nintendo's title that add diversity to the lineup only come on handhelds (pokemon)

Will-75

#156

Will-75 said:

I got the Wii U day one and I'm glad I did love mine , we also have a PS4, a vita and three 3DS's in our house in my opinion it mostly comes down to games for Wii U though there are some awesome titles now available there should be alot more by now where they 'games' are needed most is the eshop on Wii U they need to offer more than one or two new games a week especially when it comes to virtual console titles , whats the hold up ?, Wii U will start selling when we have Mario kart, Smash bros., Metroid, Bayonetta, the X title, a Kid Icarus, animal crossing, Zelda, Kirby, a Wario platformer, an online HD Fire Emblem , Donkey Kong, and there are many more Nintendo has the best games in the business and the Wii U is a solid system with a lot of great features it's very possible to turn it around if done right I could still see it as the system to beat the questions for me are when and what are they ' Nintendo ' gonna do with Wii U ?

Bizzyb

#157

Bizzyb said:

@gregrout Are you serious? Buying an Xbox One is $500; want to play with a friend? an extra $50 for controller, want to actually PLAY a game, how about two so you don't gwt incredibly bored? that's $120

Keeping track so far? That's $670

Want to actually have USE for your machince outside of offline gaming? That'll be another $40 (if its on sale, $50 if not) for Xbox LIVE Gold.

All said and done you're looking at spending at LEAST $660, $710 if you want to play games coop locally (extra controller)

Tell me exactly how is this cheaper than getting a Wii U which is now bundled with TWO games, DOESN'T include a paywall to access features you're ALREADY paying for (e.g Netflix and Amazon Instant) or play online gaming, AND fully supports any previous controllers you used last gen (unlike Xbox One). Please do tell me as I'm very eager to hear this one...

Williaint

#158

Williaint said:

Looking Back:
@ferthepoet Nintendo believed they would have more Launch Games, until too close to Launch to do anything... Your shallow view is either sarcastic, or maybe you need to do a little research, because your "facts" seem like they came from a 2012 PSP forum...
The G-Pad may be a gimmick, but so are the "perfect " 'DualShock 4s', or the 'perfect' Xboone controllers (not to mention the all-knowing Kinect). A controller that doesn't require another $399 for a minitablet, or $300 for a windows glass is looking forward...
I only had a Wii, and I had a lot of fun, I thought RD:R was pretty ok, for a while. It was just too GTA, which I'd grown tired of. I played a few other 360 games, but consistently still... had more fun on my Wii. Compare these "better" PS3 exclusives vs Wii exclusives, and I'll give you some credit
Sorry about calling out some of your follies.

My perspective on PS4 and Xbox one is that there is no point in having both, their lineups are way too similar. I can't see any exclusives on either, in the next year.

@WaveBoy (post 27) Since you summarized it, I don't need to say much more. Is mature gaming really for the "Mature"?
@Will-75 Although I'm hoping for a new Metroid (Not prime) title, and a Wario (not 'ware' title — we've already got the Remix) title (Which I hope includes Waluigi),too, a bunch of these don't appeal (or a peel, if you are talking about DK) to a broad audience... which isn't that broad to start. However, there are a lot of fans waiting for their favourite games, and the possibility of another price cut, to purchase their Wii U.
@Bizzyb The Xbox one is cheaper "because".

The word "Bias" is thrown around all to often, these days...

To get a little more on topic: The G-Pad is a bit of an evolution, with all the tablets appearing. It's a great idea. The worst part was the confusion/ignorance; releasing the Wii Mini around the same time, and again not being in peoples faces. The worst parts.

Ren

#159

Ren said:

ok, you can defend it all you want but or the people on here who didn't get one like myself why didn't you? For me?
Nintendo Land looks shallow and cheesy, has no online play.
No built in storage is a big letdown for a new system; I like downloading games.
I really expected to play all my Wii games and old VC games on it natively and on the gamepad but it didn't do that (does it now?)
The 3rd party games at launch were old games I'd already played.
The gamepad didn't seem to add anything new.
It was pricey for what it is at launch.
Online anything still looked comparatively shallow and cheesy, behind the times.
The VC and WiiWare library NOT just moved over to WiiU??!! no excuse.
I can't be alone in most of that; It was just a mistake plain and simple. And then for them to have so arrogantly misjudged the development time for HD games in general and then delay their own games THAT MUCH in their own late first entry into HD gaming? They deserve the misfortunes that have come to them, is it possible that MAYBE they could actually learn a lesson this time? Or does Iwata have to go before that can happen?

DualWielding

#160

DualWielding said:

@Williaint

Better is subjective but I don't think it can be argued that PS3 lineup of exclusives is more varied:

Wii U exclusives this year:

3D World
Wind Waker HD
Pikmin 3
The Wonderful 101
Wii Party U
Game and Wario
Sonic Lost World
Wii Sports Club (Bowling and tennis)
Wii Fit U
Lego City Undercover

PS3 2013 exclusives

The Last of Us
Ni No Kuni
Pupeteer
Kingdom Hearts 1.5.
Beyond Two Souls
MLB the Show
Talex of Xillia
Gran Turismo 6
Saint Seiya Brave Soldiers

and I'm sure I'm missing some.....

While you can argue quality its clear the PS3 list is just more varied not only in the genres represented but in art styles (you get real looking, seinen anime style looking and cartoony while Nintendo is all cartoony) and story/gameplay ratio (some are story heavy others are pure gameplay while all Nintendo exclusives are gameplay only with no story or only excuse plot stories)

Of course its unfair to compare a console in its last year with one on its first year, but although I'm not completely familiar with Wii's exclusive lineups I doubt you can find that the Wii ever got such a diverse list of exclusives in a single year

Trickbaby14

#161

Trickbaby14 said:

I'm on the verge of just giving up on all of these Nintendo sites. It used to be if I wanted to avoid reading about all Nintendo's failings I could just avoid IGN or Gamespot. Now no matter where I look there it is. I'm not saying that Nintendo's not going through a rough patch now, but give me a break. This is just hypothetical, but what if websites like this had been posting positive articles over the past year. Would the situation be different if there was a positive voice out there? Why couldn't Nintendo Power stick it out just a couple more years?

Williaint

#162

Williaint said:

@Trickbaby14 I know the feeling... Everytime I read another doom and gloom article I respond. I'm not sure why. I spend too long reading, re-reading and rereading posts that I don't agree with, then get distracted and do it again.

@ferthepoet I thought you were comparing PS3 said Wii Exclusives.
Comparing it with an already established console isn't the same thing.

And you are absolutely correct: "Better is subjective".

@Ren You'd make a good satirist.

DualWielding

#163

DualWielding said:

@Trickbaby14

This website used to run articles on how the Wii U was going to win the console war, they also consistently report on all the good news for the 3DS, they simply can't say positive stuff about the Wii U State anymore because its very clear the console is a flop

MysticX

#164

MysticX said:

@Trickbaby14 Do tell, what kind of positive articles would you like?

No matter how you look at it, there just hasn't been much good news to report lately, sure, NintendoLife could dial down on all the "Analyst X says Nintendo is doomed!"-posts, but given the official figures from Nintendo it's hard to put a positive spin on the current WiiU situation ("You don't have to queue around the block to get a WiiU! SCORE!")

andreoni79

#165

andreoni79 said:

When Thomas says that the Wii "created its own trends of third-party support", does he mean showelware? If it wasn't for those cheap, ugly, useless games that you were able to find in a bin for $ 10, the Wii would have been another Gamecube. 50% of Wii owners didn't know anything of videogames except a certain "Mario", ignoring all the other gems. No surprise they don't want to spend money for an upgraded version of their old console...

MekkaGodzilla

#166

MekkaGodzilla said:

IMHO nintendo needs to seriously reach out to the indies, and promote the hell out of them.
They would be a good fit for nintendo's hardware strategy.
If I could play Starbound, a bunch of retro games, and Nintendo games on the WiiU, I would be so happy.

WYLD-WOO

#167

WYLD-WOO said:

I have awoken into a World where FUSION could be possible!!! Sorry… must still be dreaming…

electrolite77

#169

electrolite77 said:

@Tritonus

Definitely arrogance. Fils-Aime is remarkably smug with his 'they I'll come to us' attitude.

As for the delays, it's the same every time. There's a drought, they apologise and say it won't happen again, there's a drought, they apologise. I'm bored of their excuses.

ICHIkatakuri

#172

ICHIkatakuri said:

@Shiryu I going to let out my uber geek and back up your last sentiment with a Tolkien quote "Things that are good to have and days that are good to spend are soon told about, and not much to listen to; while things that are uncomfortable, palpitating and even gruesome, may make a good tale, and take a deal of telling anyway".

unrandomsam

#173

unrandomsam said:

@ferthepoet Kingdom Hearts 1.5 / Ni No Kuni / Windwaker are all ports counting a port as an exclusive doesn't work for me. Half of Kingdom Hearts 1.5 and Ni No Kuni were originally Nintendo games as well.

Such as the last of us has hardly any gameplay that is fun to play. (At least 75% wasn't for me the first level was very very good but they didn't bother keeping that quality for the whole game. They could have using the same tricks that was used for Shenmue).

Shiryu

#174

Shiryu said:

@johndevine Sorry man, I have hit the100 limit months ago, Ninty needs to add an extra zero to the right on that friends list... Y_Y

Gameday

#177

Gameday said:

@WaveBoy Wave my friend i like your style, people aren't diverse enough with gaming these days and you can really tell what generation they come from "mostly". The same people that grew up actually playing these colorful games or owned an NES etc seem to of gotten caught up in the hype... There's never been anything wrong with playing a vivid game.

Lol you had me rolling with that brown and grey scaling that most of those realistic cgi cut-scene games are bringing to the table, because sadly enough i know too many like so.. I also enjoy all types of games so its pretty sad to hear anyone claiming to be a gamer that would disregard any form of games period ~

BertoFlyingFox

#178

BertoFlyingFox said:

Ehhhh, I just keep playing games and let the cards fall where they may. I'm enjoying my WiiU and that's really all I could say.

Let's see where Nintendo steers this kooky ship next!

Kirk

#179

Kirk said:

@TheRealThanos

"And if the Wii U comes close to or ties even with GameCube sales at the end of it's run, then regardless of what you or I think of it, it will still have made money for Nintendo."

Yes but Nintendo making slightly more or slightly less money is not what I'm concerned about as an end consumer and gamer. I'm concerned about having a truly satisfying console experience. Now, I had that with the NES, absolutely with the SNES and even with the N64 but I didn't have it with the GC, certainly not the Wii and I just don't think I would/will have it with the Wii U (more-so after my experience with Wii). So far the Wii U looks to be just another "Wii" to me and that is not a truly satisfying console experience imo. That's all that ultimately matters to me as an end consumer and gamer and if the Wii U doesn't deliver that, like the Wii most certainly didn't imo, then it is a failure.

The potential struggles of Nintendo's future home consoles will also reflect this success or failure of the Wii U imo, as a truly satisfying product or not, by virtue of how excited the average consumer is for Nintendo's next console (ignoring the always loyal hardcore FANS for a second because they are apparently happy with whatever Nintendo does it seems). Most people just aren't excited about the Wii U and I personally think a large part of that is a direct result of their negative experience with the Wii last generation, just like mine was overall a negative experience (despite a small handful of high points), alongside the fact the Wii U seems to have so many similar issues and problems this time around too.

@LDXD

The Wii U is quite a bit less powerful than the other consoles. That is an absolute indisputable FACT. That is what I mean when I say 'under powered'. It is less capable. If you are going to argue this then there is no point in even trying to communicate on your level anymore. This will manifest itself in MANY ways and lead to many problems for the Wii U going forward, be it games that clearly lack in graphical features and overall flair compared to those same games on other current-gen consoles (and these limitations that come from being less powerful, such as having less RAM or slower processors, won't just be related to what you see in terms of pure aesthetics either but they will go far beyond that, from things like not being able to run certain multi-plat games at as high a framerate as the other consoles, or not being able to handle as many characters and A.I. on-screen at any one time in games that have lots of characters etc) or even developers skipping the Wii U entirely when deciding what systems to port their games to (that's totally irrespective of them making versions of their games for smartphones and tablets because at least in those cases the extra development in down-converting games is justified by the huge installed bases of those platforms), just as it did with the Wii.

Nintendo should not stop doing all the cool things it's doing. That's just an idiotic suggestion and I've certainly NEVER ONCE implied it should do that. Those cool things should not however come at the expense and lack of all the other things that most "gamers" now take for granted and expect by default in their current-gen entertainment consoles. A truly satisfying console experience in this day and age simply cannot forgo standard features and functionality for the sake of adding an interesting but actually not entirely essential gimmick. The gimmicks, like a touchscreen on the GamePad or Kinect for example, need to come in ADDITION to all the other genuinely valuable and useful stuff that the vast majority of people do actually want (CD/DVD/Blu-Ray playback, cutting edge graphics power, a practical amount of internal storage for all this new digital content, the backing and support of third party developers, etc etc etc).

@midnafanboy
I totally agree. I know these are the kinds of ads I certainly enjoy and I don't see them doing any harm to all the casuals and families out there either. They might not be directly targeted at casuals and mums in the same way games like Wii Sports and Wii U Party are but I'm sure your average mum thinking about buying their child a new console or game certainly wouldn't be put off by ads like this. In fact I think most parents would see an ad like that and immediately think it's probably exactly the kind of thing their child would absolutely love. It's like showing them a Lord Of The Rings trailer or something.

So, as I see it, ads like this are perfectly suited for both the casual and core gamers and certainly more so than seeing a bunch of clueless paid actor family members jumping around in the living room like a bunch on idiots and faking their enthusiasm. These more casual-centric ads are just totally patronizing to most core gamers out there and indeed off-putting to the vast majority of people who are currently more swayed towards the likes of Xbox One and PS4 imo.

Have a few of these casual focused ads but lets get quite a few more of the classic style ads out there too.

Rafie

#180

Rafie said:

@unrandomsam Kingdom Hearts was on the Playstation before it was on a Nintendo console.

@Kirk Very good points indeed sir.

@Carlysan I definitely agree whole heartedly!

@ TheRealThanos I have to say that you make extremely well written points. I can tell you are an older gentlemen (either my age 31 or older). You get your points across without coming off as a biased, Nintendo loving, enthusiast. Although there are some points that can be argued, your posts on this forum are distinguished and for the most part....just plain good.

Dogpigfish

#181

Dogpigfish said:

Steam box looks pretty cool, don't you think? We'll see if Nintendo can keep up this year.

Kirk

#182

Kirk said:

"Steam box looks pretty cool, don't you think?"

So far; not really.

Blue-Thunder

#183

Blue-Thunder said:

Wii U is not and will not sell for a few reasons.
1, Casual gamers are gone and Nintendo have isolated core gamers.
2, The majority of gamers don't want the big pad with a touch screen on it.
3, Nintendo are not making the right games anymore: Mario and Keep fit. where's the innovation? Where's the games core gamers want?

Nintendo want games like Wii Fit because they are relatively cheap to develop compared to standard games and if successful will make you a mint.

Nintendo need to sit down and rethink their home console strategy and I think if they don't get it right next time they will retire the home console division of the company which would be a bloody disaster for gaming. I'm not feeling that optimistic about the company at all.

Back in the SNES era Nintendo had a poster with all the SNES games on it and the heading of the poster read "The name of the game is the games". I don't think the game has changed that much but Nintendo has. Where's the games Nintendo???

TheRealThanos

#184

TheRealThanos said:

@Kirk I can understand your personal sentiments and of course each one of us is entitled to their opinion, but I do not believe that most people have been disappointed since the Wii. I had fun with it right until the end (a large part of that is because of excellent JRPG's like Xenoblade and The Last Story) and so did many people in my circle of friends and family. Not all of them play as many games as I do, and it also depends on what games you like, but still. I would sooner say people were disappointed by the Wii U itself, not before. And then only because they knew what the other two were going to come up with and they were going to be more powerful from day one, so the Wii U just didn't make enough of a good impression, even with all the time that it had before the other two came out and that certainly is Nintendo's fault. But I don't know, with once again bringing up the power (non) issue, and this time vs current gen consoles, if you mean the Xbox 360/PS3 or not. But if so then your point is seriously flawed.
The ports of these games are indeed far from perfect but most of that stems from them originally being CPU based/CPU intensive and apparently the responsible development teams haven't optimized them far enough to take full advantage of the GPGPU and that can definitely make a difference. There are some graphical third party gems out there that offer a better experience on Wii U, also on a graphical level (NSF Most Wanted U, Rayman Legends, Trine 2) and those are still only showing the earlier stages of the Wii U's potential. A colleague of mine is one of the lucky community members that got a beta tester license for Project CARS and he says that too is going to look absolutely gorgeous "even" on the Wii U, as the developer himself has said.
All the things you named like graphical effects, amount of things happening on the screen at once, size of game worlds, implementation of AI and so on are all debatable and I already mentioned most of that in my previous comment. Let's once again take the Wii versions of COD for example: they obviously didn't look as good as their HD counterparts, but the gameplay was there (arguably even better because of the point and shoot mechanics) and the online was also there and worked just fine, albeit in smaller quantities. Fast forward to the Wii U: if they solve their issues (marketing, installed base, third parties) then they will have these type of games. No one has to delude himself, we can name thousands of reasons and discuss them until the earth dries up, but most of it is simply and only about the money, PERIOD.
It is inherent to the gaming business nowadays, like in other businesses, to take less risks unless you know for a fact that they will bring profits in return, and that situation has to be created and established first. As long as that isn't so, people/developers/third parties simply aren't going to invest in Nintendo's platform. (and even to me rightfully so, because their current marketing ploy is abysmal) But once there is money to be made, I can assure you that they WILL be flocking back by the dozens and will rush to get their games out on the once again viable platform.
@Rafie Thanks for the compliment, and yes some of my points are debatable, but that is because they partially consist of opinions. I do try to steer clear of too much opinionated comments and use logic, information that is readily available and whenever/wherever possible undeniable facts. And for topics like this one here a bit of my knowledge coming from my 12+ years of working experience as a sales & marketing professional... As for my age: I'm 43 actually. Click the name and check my profile. Should tell you all you need to know... ;)

Sceptic

#185

Sceptic said:

@Falco: Absolutely. Greed and Arrogance killed the WiiU. They thought they could milk the Wii-suckers with another round of the same low cost/high margin cookie-cutter games, but people saw through it. For that, they deserve what they're getting.

Even 'epic' titles like Wind Waker got absolutely minimal effort from nintendo. They even admitted it only took them six months to port (but a year to release?), and that's including the 'delay' because they "underestimated" the work required to port it to HD (think about that!). In other words, they thought they could pull it off for even less than that.

The ever-delayed Donkey Kong game is going to be the next one to bomb. I look at the trailer and I keep having to remind myself it's supposed to be a full blown $70 game on a living room console, not a $4 tablet time-waster. It's like watching an elderly street artist draw unicorns.

andreoni79

#186

andreoni79 said:

This will sound off-topic, but I think it isn't:
Last night I reinstalled Fallout 3 on my old 360 because I was missing such a good game. I installed it on a flash usb, having the dlc on the hard disk, looking for some better performance as seen with GTA 5. Result: halved loading times and the disc is not spinning at all! A 6 years old game on a 8 years old console. What about the Wii U? Do we have the option to do that? No. Someone than says "buy the digital version", forgetting that the Nintendo online service sucks and constantly punish customers with limitations of any kind. Can such a big company be so stupid? In addition to Fallout 3 I'm playing a wonderful game, Mario 3D world, while waiting for another wonderful game, DKC tropical freeze. But I just feel this is not enough to save Nintendo.

jenkje

#187

jenkje said:

Bad News is ironically Good News for Nintendo. Nintendo has lost 88,99% of it's value in the stock market from the top 1. november 2007 to the bottom 25. july 2012. Everyone from analytics and gamers are predicting the death of the company. One thing I have learned from the financial markets in general is this: When everyone agrees about the current trend, the time has come for the trend to move in the opposite direction. That time is now and if the bottom for the stock was in july 2012 as I suspect the future should look bright for Nintendo. It's not about the hardware. It's about making good games and Nintendo has always done that. I love my WII U and so does my two sons. Looking forward to kong, kart, and smash....

Kirk

#188

Kirk said:

I'm sure a lot of people did have a great time with their Wii's but I'm suggesting the majority of people, outside of FAN-centric places like this, either didn't enjoy it so much that they give a crap about the Wii U now or they were actually disappointed with it enough that they actively don't give a crap about the Wii U now.

We can't show figures for that, I presume, but that's what I suggest would be the case if someone could do a survey and collect those figures.

I expect most people would unequivocally tell you that their Wii systems either gathered dust for the most part or only saw repeated use for a couple of games; like all those old folks and mums that only used it to play Wii Sports and maybe one or two other similar games and very little else. That's not really a truly complete and satisfying console experience if you ask me; if all it was good for is playing one or two games over and over and little else. Most people are simply not going to be compelled to go out and buy a brand new but kind of very similar, not in the good way, console again for that imo and this assertion seems to be borne out by the current sales numbers.

I definitely think a lot of people were disappointed by the Wii U value proposition too but I think that additionally comes on top of a entire previous generation of disappointment for many people and I know this because I'm one of those people. I've not bought a Wii U because it's BOTH disappointingly lacking in so many ways AND because my previous experience with the Wii has made me very very weary of what I see as being a very very similar system relative to it's time and the competition for the most part. How can I possibly go out and buy a system where my gut tells me it's just going to be like the Wii all over again? Which for me would be a very bad thing. I think a LOT of potential future console owners and customers think similarly.

"and the online was also there and worked just fine, albeit in smaller quantities"

It's as simple as asking "Is having the option of up to 64 players in the next COD game better or worse than having the option of up to 32 players?" and then considering that this, in PRINCIPLE, is likely to be the case with a lot of multi-plat games this generation.

Note: That's just one random example.

This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about when I say these Nintendo consoles are "under powered" compared to the competition. The lack of power in the Wii compared to Xbox 360 and PS3 resulted in countless examples like this (please don't make me have to go through long lists of examples). Similar limitations will also be apparent in many current-gen multi-plat games that are specifically focused on the current-gen consoles only (should those games even come to Wii U in the first place). This isn't really "debatable". It's a real thing and it is already happening and will only become even more apparent as we move through the generation. You can make up excuses that it's because developers haven't optimized their games for the Wii U but that is neither here nor there. If developers pushed the other consoles to their absolute limits then no matter how much you optimize the game on Wii U it simply will not be able to look or run as good. It's like saying if you really optimize your Skoda it will run as fast as a Lamborghini. It has inherent limits and those limits are lower across the board on Wii U than the competition and that is an undeniable fact. If multi-plat games invariably look and run worse on Wii U than the other current-gen consoles, which of course most will, then that's all the end user needs to understand; the Wii U isn't as capable as the competition.

Also, when I compare Wii U to current-gen consoles I'm talking about PS4 and Xbox One. This is the current generation of consoles.

Let's remember that the Wii sold over 100 million units and devs didn't flock to the system as compared to the competition, which even now at the end of their lifespans are seeing more support than even the brand new Wii U, let alone the dead to rights Wii, so it's CLEARLY not just about sales numbers to these developers, although CLEARLY that's also a huge factor, obviously.

The Wii U is flopping in terms of sales for far more reasons than a lack of power and the developers are not supporting the system for far more reasons that just the lack of sales (since it's still to date sold more than both Xbox One and PS4). These things are however factors and they are just a couple of the many factors negatively affecting the Wii U right now. It's multiple/countless different things and this is the big issue I have with the system; from the under powered tech specs (despite you continuing to debate this) to the lack of basic multi-media playback (CD/DVD/Blu-Ray) and all the way through to the terrible third party support (there's more AAA third party games coming in the near future to even last-gen consoles than Wii U), with multiple other things in between all that too.

The Wii U's "relevance" is quite simply about far more than sales. Sales figures are just one of the simplest metrics to use as a comparison or measure of it's "relevance" for many people.

rmeyer

#189

rmeyer said:

Nobody cares about the controller anymore. I don't think the console is underpowered, I just want a year like last years 3ds. There was a confidence you could feel with the 3ds games that came out each month. We we're hit with superior games each month that were better then the last. If they just released a ridiculous amount of high end top notch games that aren't 2d side scrollers for the Wii U the console would be cool. People were having so much fun with the 3ds it was a great year. The a Wii U realistically needs right now a full fledged 3d Metroid Prime to be anounced this summer with Zelda coming out at the end of the year. No delays no more 2d side scroller crap. Get smash and Mario kart out as soon as possible, ridiculous amount of advertising they need to smother titanfall and remind people why Nintendo is "fun" while their competition is releasing unfinished half a games

Kirk

#190

Kirk said:

@rmeyer

That would all be GREAT but without the strong third party support to go along with all those first party titles it's still just about being a system that only truly satisfies the most hardcore loyal FANS imo.

I am a long time hardcore Nintendo fan but I simply need more than some great first party games from my console. I ALWAYS have and I ALWAYS will. I had more than that with NES. I had more than that with SNES. I even had more than that with N64, or so it felt at the time. I didn't feel that with Wii. I don't see it with Wii U.

Also, there's a whole crap load of other considerations that go beyond just what games the system has too. Especially in this day and age. Games are clearly thee most important element in a satisfying console experience but they are not the be all and end all and particularly in this day and age I do not believe for one second that a handful of great games is actually enough for most people.

It's just not enough.

I think a LOT of people, quite rightly, feel similarly.

The 3DS gets away with it more than the Wii U because handhelds still have the luxury of being considered as mostly game only devices and for now you can still have a pretty all-round satisfying handheld console experience if that one element is nailed.

It's not quite that simple with home consoles for most consumers these days, as I see it, and I'm pretty sure that paradigm won't work with handhelds for ever either.

TheRealThanos

#191

TheRealThanos said:

@Kirk Agreed totally on the online experience, although I am a bit of two minds there, and many Nintendo users will probably also not care too much because online is free and they know what they're getting into with Nintendo. Friend codes are awful and there are a couple of other things, but we agree on this one, so nuff said.
As for game examples: no I won't make you come up with a list. No need for that, I can probably guess quite a few of them since I happen to have a Xbox 360.
What we do NOT agree on is what I said about CPU intensive games not being optimized for Wii U. (Skoda vs Lamborghini also way too off scale for a comparison of Wii U vs Xbox One/PS4) That is not my excuse, it's a fact and one of the better documented ones as well. Information about the how and why can be found all over the net, if you know the right websites; tech sites that are filled with/run by developers/programmers that actually know what they are talking about, not fanboys blindly defending Nintendo.
So I suggest that on this point we agree to disagree, because if you are just going to post another counter argument then it is going to be more of the same from me as well, and I don't feel like that is going to move things along at all. Some things do not necessarily need to be resolved or agreed upon. And I didn't say it is all about sales, it is all about the money, and that IS an undeniable fact, because it is the underlying motive for it all. As shown by my investment<>risk factor explanation.
And personally I could care less (and in-game also hardly notice) about the difference between 32 or 64 players so if that would be the only negative point for Wii U online gaming, then I would dare to bet that it wouldn't make or break the overall experience. Of course there is more than that going on, but I'm still of a mind that the whole power debate is seriously flawed based on the facts at hand and at the very least up to the perception of those discussing it, me included, because it all depends on what you want out of it and for some of us, Nintendo games in HD are enough, but that does not exclude us welcoming a healthy line-up of third party offerings as well.
At least you and I (and a couple of others on NLife) come up with some intelligent points instead of just shouting the other one down by simply stating some stupid fanboy catch phrase empowering your console of choice.

gatorboi352

#192

gatorboi352 said:

@JaxonH

"Wii U is only "perceived" last gen by hardcore Sony and Microsoft fanatics. "

Correct. But for the rest of the population not deemed Nintendo hardcore (a.k.a. us on this site) it isn't "perceived" as anything at all. It's completely irrelevant. Which IMO is even more damning than the perception PS/XB crowd has of Wii U.

gatorboi352

#193

gatorboi352 said:

@Kirk

"The Wii U is flopping in terms of sales for far more reasons than a lack of power and the developers are not supporting the system for far more reasons that just the lack of sales"

Yep, it's flopping because nobody (exaggerating slightly here) that buys Nintendo systems buys 3rd party games. How many times have you heard someone state a variation of the following: "Well, I only buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games."

I know I've lost count. The point is, those people ARE the problem. And so is Nintendo's overall 3rd party relations, or the lack thereof. People like sports titles. People like GTA. People like the thought of having ALL the games they like in one place on one console. It's on NINTENDO and the people that purchase Nintendo consoles to make this happen.

Kirk

#194

Kirk said:

@TheRealThanos

Yeah, the Skoda and Lamborghini comparison/example is obviously way off scale. I just made it a bit more exaggerated to make the point clear :-)

Yeah, money is basically thee major factor for most companies but as a "company" and a game developer myself I can unequivocally tell you that money is not the be all and end all. It's not everything. If money is the be all and end all for a particular company then I would suggest that's a very sad business to be part of and certainly a very sad video games company to work for or be involved with. Money, the guaranteed ability to make more of it on Wii U, would of course bring back developers in their droves but the point I'm trying to make is that money, or more precisely the fear they won't make any, is not the only reason most third party developers are avoiding the system and it's not the only reason why it's flopping either. The situation is far more "rich" than that, no pun intended, and absolutely 100% when you think beyond the business side of the equation and start looking at the end consumer and gamer side of things.

For those people that simply want Nintendo games in HD then of course the Wii U will be enough. I've never really argued that point because it's a truism. That's obviously most of the people on sites like this imo. My point is that this simply isn't enough for most of today's average consumers or core gamers out there and that is one of thee major reasons why Wii U is flopping imo.

I WISH it were enough but the reason I debate so fervently about this subject is because I truly 100% don't think it's enough for most people out there and being one of those people that's a very disappointing, frustrating and heartbreaking thing and especially because I am still a Nintendo fan at heart.

@gatorboi352

I agree.

gatorboi352

#195

gatorboi352 said:

@Kirk

"but as a "company" and a game developer myself I can unequivocally tell you that money is not the be all and end all. It's not everything."

I again have to agree here. How many companies did we hear about last gen going bankrupt or something similar off of developing PS360 titles? AND THEY STILL WENT BACK IN SOME FORM OR FASHION TO THE SAME HONEY POT regardless of this.

This all hints back to Nintendo's mediocre (at best) 3rd party relations. 3rd parties would rather go broke (sometimes almost literally) on PlayStations and Xboxs than develop for Nintendo. Sad.

unrandomsam

#196

unrandomsam said:

@Sceptic Donkey Kong is the only game I care about so far on the Wii U. (Just because its difficulty last time was just right and hardly anything is these days). If it is just more of exactly the same as last time but different levels and slightly nicer graphics that will be totally fine by me. (Not many sets of games where I like all of them and the last one I like the best).

Probably another 4 or 5 games I will get that I am sort of interested in but unless Donkey Kong is the same. (Any reviews say its easier than last time then it will be at least another year. Not that bothered don't want to spend a year waiting for games like I did with the 3DS XL).

TheRealThanos

#197

TheRealThanos said:

@Kirk interesting point. So from your perspective, what is it about? I could imagine all kinds of reasons but I would think that you would not want to work for free and would like to see some returns on your efforts as well. It should not be labeled as the be all and end all, but it IS a driving factor to be able to continue to run a business AND make a profit off of it. Money isn't called "the oil that greases the engine" for nothing. The engine is your business and the word business in and of itself means there is always money involved, otherwise you would be a volunteer of some sort...
@gatorboi352 #194 agreed for the most part. But it is a bit of a catch 22. Even Wii U owners that want these games, won't find them on Wii U and developers won't make/port them because they believe the audience (and profit) isn't there.

unrandomsam

#198

unrandomsam said:

@gatorboi352 Its all about money especially for the big games. The Last of Us they could have waited until the whole game was as good as the first level no matter how long it took. (Shenmue was done like that).

rmeyer

#199

rmeyer said:

@Kirk I don't typically buy Nintendo consoles for 3rd party content. I think exclusives Nintendo are usually a real gift. Look at mh3u and wonderful101. I had an xbox and now a ps4 for that junk. But 3rd party support isn't always a good thing. Yeah every now and then you miss out on a new Fallout or Bioshock but the number of 3rd party games that are awful are really high. At least Nintendo is uncluttered and almost always goty quality

Kirk

#200

Kirk said:

@gatorboi352 @TheRealThanos

Well it's like the guy who made a port of Retro City Rampage for Wii U and knew in advance it wouldn't make him any money.

Clearly, as a business he wants to make money but as a fan of video games he also wants to make great games on the systems he loves, for the company he grew up with and got him into video games in the first place, and have as many people play and enjoy them as possible.

For him though it wasn't such a big deal not making money on the Wii U version because he already made a lot of money off the game on other platforms anyway.

Personally, my own business mantra is; Satisfy the customer, at a profit.

So, as long as I'm not losing money or living in poverty and I can continue to make games that I care about and that the people who buy them are happy with, I'll be happy.

Ideally however, I'd like to make games I'm truly proud of, that gamers love and that also happen to make a crap load of money too.

That's the dream...

@rmeyer

Well there's no doubt that Nintendo (the company, it's products and it's services) has it's good points but at the same time it also has a LOT of bad points these days.

gatorboi352

#201

gatorboi352 said:

@TheRealThanos

"won't find them on Wii U and developers won't make/port them because they believe the audience (and profit) isn't there."

Ah but why! They believe the audience isn't there because the audience goes into buying Nintendo systems with the mantra "I only buy for the Nintendo games anyways". THAT stigma is on the owners of Nintendo systems.

The profit not being there is a Nintendo 3rd party relations deal. Because the profit isn't there a lot of the time on PS and XB as well, but Sony and Microsoft have such great relations with 3rd parties they are willing to put profits second.

Again, the 3rd party situation is all on Nintendo and the owners of Nintendo consoles. The 3rd parties have simply reacted.

unrandomsam

#203

unrandomsam said:

@gatorboi352 Instead of trying to make the best possible game ignoring all else and doing whatever is necessary to stop it being released early. (Like was done for Shenmue). Stuff is released before it is ready all the time. In other art forms (Music / Literature / Film) people refuse to release stuff at all if they think it is not ready that doesn't happen with games. (Nintendo doesn't release complete junk but nobody else even does that).

gatorboi352

#204

gatorboi352 said:

@unrandomsam but what I'm saying is it isn't all about money, proof being in all the companies that have gone into the red developing for non-Nintendo consoles and are perfectly content doing so on those systems, and CONTINUE to develop on those systems in light of that. It's called great 3rd party relations. Sony and Microsoft have them. Nintendo does not.

Forgive me but I do not see how your opinion on whether or not Last of Us was not a great game or released before it was ready to go applies here.

TheRealThanos

#205

TheRealThanos said:

@gatorboi352 part of the audience does, so of course you have a point. But a sizeable portion of Nintendo console owners wants and used to play third party games as well, beginning from the 8 bit era up till the GameCube/Wii only the amount on offer has lessened considerably. For me personally the main reason to have two consoles during the previous generation.
As for your point concerning developers making games for the other platforms regardless: that is simply because they know these consoles will sell and will offer an installed base at least, but even that is no guarantee for a profit, for various reasons, it is just that the risk is smaller and so it is for them the more obvious choice. It is both up to Nintendo AND the buyers to fix that. Nintendo REALLY needs to get in touch with third parties again and must step up their efforts towards their customers and the customers must speak with their wallets if they want third parties on Wii U. I for one will be buying several third party offerings this year, Project CARS being number 1 on my list.

gatorboi352

#206

gatorboi352 said:

" But a sizeable portion of Nintendo console owners wants and used to play third party games as well"

Not sure about N64 gen and older, but for anything newer, sales numbers would beg to differ.

As far as the rest of your post, it sounds like we're saying the same thing. And I second Project CARS! Can't wait!

Ren

#207

Ren said:

0To be fair I was a HUGE fan of the Wii and got it day one, and I've been the biggest Nintendo fanboy since the NES was released (with a little break around the gamecube days). But even as a dedicated fan my excitement at first was largely centered around WiiSports. I loved the new wiimotes and all the possibilities it presented and as a fan I was willing to wait and dig for those other great experiences.

But for the 'casual' crowd that made the console sales so profitable there really wasn't much to do after the initial impulse buy. People played with family on holidays and that was it. We all tout it's success like it was this brilliant business strategy but we can't discount the fact that the price and the pack-in was largely it for that boom (which allowed for lots of us fans to get excited and get some of the other great stuff that came out later), but it really didn't create the massive new market that people thought that it did. The push for new varied and more high tech experiences did not just disappear and everyone didn't just say "oh great! I don't need HD on my HD tv, and I don't really want to play online after all!".

With the launch of the e-shop and VC I was SO excited for Nintendo to use that critical boost to really develop something more in line with what was taking place everywhere else with mobiles, other consoles and PCs. Online gaming, heavily supported/marketed online shops, even R&D into some great new HD system AND HD game development. A couple years into the Wii shop it became clear Nintendo had gotten complacent and cocky and just wasn't doing that and I even got tired of it myself and got another HD system reluctantly. I'm a naysayer here lately only out of disappointment in a company that I have loved my entire life.

I still love my 3DS but I'm afraid the WiiU represents the result of that missed opportunity. They even had a year jump on the other consoles but squandered it by missing all the cues in the rest of the industry that that "new casual market" really won't just get another Nintendo if it's not playing to modern standards. It's not really about being "graphics horses" or wanting GTA type games, it's just about keeping up with where the basic minimum standards of the rest of the games market is with or without the family focus.
They're paying the price for it now, and because they do things in a way as to usually profit or break even with hardware they are in a really unique position to possibly bounce back up in a couple years pretty well if they really pay attention to what most of us want and already have in our living rooms now and at least give us that.

If you want to attract "core gamers" as well as families you can't do it lightly, the bar has been set really high. They were trying to do the almost impossible with WiiU and if anyone could do it Nintendo could, but the gamepad thing just didn't have the wow factor to pull it off this time.

TheRealThanos

#208

TheRealThanos said:

@gatorboi352 Tips hat and raises glass... ;)
As far as N64 and older: The NES made a good start with third parties, but the SNES was THE platform (although Sega fans would argue) back in the day, with a huge offering of both first party and second party games, Street Fighter 2 being one of the top sellers and one of my personal favorites. After that, largely because of the unwillingness of Nintendo to give up cartridges with the N64, third parties started to disappear, things slowly got worse with GameCube because of the proprietary disc format, strict rules and a couple of other, developer unfriendly, issues. And we know what happened after that. The glory days of the SNES will never be back, but there is still a LOT Nintendo can do to at least fix part of the damage and regain some traction with the public for whatever piece of hardware they have up their sleeves next...

BinaryFragger

#209

BinaryFragger said:

sub12 posted a great article in the forums about the GameCube's development which covers Nintendo's poor relationship with third-party developers. Their licensing fees were higher than MS and Sony, they weren't sending dev kits to developers and flat-out said they're not too interested in third-party support. A few quotes from the article:

>> “I’ve been told that Sony won over Nintendo by surrounding itself with software companies, and I will admit that situation was there in the past. However, times have changed, and it’s no longer a race to see how many useless companies you can get on your side.” said Yamauchi.

>> By June 2000, no US companies had working GameCube development kits yet and were still in prototyping stages.

>> “The GameCube has been well received by the development community, but we don’t believe in overwhelming third party support [said Satoru Iwata]."

>> “Now software companies are going multi-platform, running one game on lots of consoles, just to sell that little bit more. Even Sega. I can understand why the industry’s flowing this way, but, speaking for Nintendo, I can hardly welcome it,” said Yamauchi.

http://www.nintendolife.com/forums/general_discussion/a_dolphins_tale_the_history_of_gamecube_amazing_article

JaxonH

#210

JaxonH said:

@gatorboi352

You do have a point to an extent, but consider this: that vast majority of non-core gaming customers who bought either a Wii, PS3, or 360 last gen, know that there are several brands of consoles. They might not be up to speed on Wii U, but I doubt they'll be much more up to speed on the other consoles either. If and when they decide they want a new console, they'll probably do a google search for "new consoles" and maybe even do a search for Nintendo, Sony, and MS separately.

Point is, that vast base of more lighthearted gamers, who don't take it too seriously, they're the ones that make up the majority of all install bases on all 3 consoles. They may not be up to speed on Wii U, but they're probably not up to speed on PS4 and X1 either. But even if they are informed about, let's just say, PS4, they'll probably still do a search to see what other consoles are out. And that's when they'll find out about Wii U.

The thing is, we're in a bubble. We see all this gossip and negativity and jabber about Nintendo, Sony and MS, and we assume that everyone who will be buying consoles in the future are like us, but I'd estimate around 75% of all future gaming console customers aren't in the loop like us. They may or may not know about Wii U, sure, but they will if and when they decide to buy a new console, because they'll look into it. And all it takes is that lower price and decent library of games- one or two catch their eye and they say ok, that's what I'll get.

There is a significantly larger pool of "core" gamers (for lack of a better word), gaming enthusiasts we'll call them, who are into Sony and MS than Nintendo nowadays. That's more than evident by the exceptional sales of the PS4 and X1. And as a result, it's fair to assume Sony and MS will do substantially better in the home console market than Nintendo from this point forth (although nothing is guaranteed, as we all know from last gen). But, there's no getting around the fact that when the non-enthusiasts look into buying a new console, Nintendo's Wii U will be a valid option for many of them, simply due to name brand, lower price and exceptional Nintendo library. For those who doubt this, well, all I can say is wait and see. But at the end of this generation, when all is said and done and you see Nintendo actually did ok (and by ok I mean as well as they traditionally do aside from Wii, so 20-40 million consoles sold, which has always been more than enough in the past, and still will be), don't say I didn't tell you so beforehand.

Cia

#211

Cia said:

@VolcanoFlames
Most likely yeah. Super Mario 3D World could not put Wii U back on track mainly because there were some who understood it's concept wrong (effectively failing to realise it's greatness without even trying it), and also, the game was released at the same time as PS4... a bad timing.
But yeah, I'm sure that Wii U will gain momentum later this year, even though it seems like the press is ready to do almost anything to make Nintendo fail.

Rin-go

#212

Rin-go said:

Do you sit in the head of other people? I find it tiring how people base things on assumptions without having any evidence.

@JaxonH #211
Great comment. ^^ I fully agree with you. I actually wanted to write something similar.

Like @JaxonH said, many of the potential consumers probably don't look into things too much. They see software or a feature that looks interesting and decide based on that. Because if the Wii U doesn't sell because of the account system and things like that, the XOne should sell even less, what with the reveal fiasco and the everwatching eye.
It seems to me that many just take something they don't like about the Wii U and then apply it to all consumers. To do that one would have to make a market analysis first.

Windy

#215

Windy said:

I would love to see the Wii-U succeed but its truly hanging on by a thread. How can that change. Its obvious by numbers the world doesn't prefer it. What the world does prefer is the 3ds. What can change to lift the Wii-U? Pokemon seems to be a lifter of systems. I'm not even a fan of it. But it is. So why not do the first online pokemon 3d game on Wii-U where Pokemon trainers can Collect, meet and Battle all in real time! Create a huge Pokemon world! I'm also not going to say another word about Dragon Quest X but its a huge mistake not to port that. Sorry Nintendo but its been frustrating to be a fan since the Wii came out and Now with Wii-U. You have made it so.

Windy

#216

Windy said:

@JaxonH I do think you nailed it. I also think there are things Nintendo can do to make the situation better. Not like its all bad but it can be better.

JaxonH

#217

JaxonH said:

@Windy

Right. The Wii U's potential is quite a spread... I mean, at the very worst the Wii U will at least match the Gamecube. That's THE worst case scenario, as in, a repeat of 2013 for the next five years, despite all the critically acclaimed, Game of the Year contending software they're going to blanket bomb the system with. And we all know, 2013 sales were largely due to post launch droughts and customer awareness issues.

But with every new game, the library becomes more attractive, the system gains a little more recognition, and so on. So I would be surprised, no, I would be AMAZED if the Wii U saw a repeat of 2013 for 5 more consecutive years despite the circumstances no longer being against it. But again, EVEN IF a full library and more customer awareness doesn't garner one more ounce of momentum, it's STILL on track for Gamecube numbers. Think about it, even if Wii U only sold a million units all year long, from Jan-Nov, then 2 million over the holiday season from Nov-Jan, that's STILL gonna land it at over 20 million. With that in mind, people can breath a sigh of relief- things aren't as bad as the media has tried to spin it out to be.

That's the worst case scenario. But the more likely outcome is that the Wii U will see a substantial increase in performance every year for the next several years. That's just common sense. More games, more customer awareness, more success. How much more? Idk, maybe double that of Gamecube, give or take. I know that's not a whole lot compared to last gen, but realistically, that's right on par with almost every Nintendo console to date, barring the Wii of course.

But most importantly, once people wake up from these crazy accusations flying around the internet and actually take a look at the facts, they'll realize that the Wii U, even with the embarrassing sales of 2013, is STILL on track to sell as well as Gamecube, and that's assuming things DON'T improve. And if I recall, nobody threw a fit or had a panic attack over that console's sales numbers. Having said that, things can always be better. But as long as the situation isn't dire, which it isn't (not even close), people can get back to gaming and forget about all this nonsense- sales numbers are fine for an offhand topic now and then, but lately they've become an unhealthy obsession. It's all anyone talks about anymore. Who cares, ya know? It sells what it sells- let's just enjoy the games along the way, ammirite?

Leave A Comment

Hold on there, you need to login to post a comment...