News Article

Video: Want To See Just How Much Better Zelda: Wind Waker Looks In HD?

Posted by Damien McFerran

Standard definition just doesn't cut it anymore

The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker HD hits the Wii U very soon, and for many it will be a chance to revisit one of the greatest games ever made. However, we've lost count of the number of times we've heard people say things like "how much better can it possibly look in a higher resolution?" or "the GameCube version is HD in my head, anyway."

To make sure you're aware of how much better the Wii U version is going to look, Nintendo of Japan has released a comparison video showing the two editions side-by-side. As you can see, the difference is striking — as Nintendo Life Managing Director Anthony Dickens puts it, it almost feels as if technology has finally caught up with Nintendo's original vision from a decade ago. This is how Wind Waker was meant to be played.

[via youtube.com]

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User Comments (139)

SilentHunter382

#2

SilentHunter382 said:

I wished they had both screens the same size. The reason is that the GameCube version is so compressed that its very hard to see a proper visual difference (not in graphics but would have liked a fair comparison).

Shworange

#3

Shworange said:

I can't friggin wait! It looks amazing! My kids haven't had a chance to play this game. I used to play it when my first child was born. We'd be up late at night because he just wouldn't sleep. I'd turn on that game and lull him to sleep with the music of Link sailing on the ocean. Pretty awesome.

Nintenjoe64

#6

Nintenjoe64 said:

This is my niece's favourite game but I am not sure if that is justification to buy it. The disc is still in my gamecube....

DarkCoolEdge

#9

DarkCoolEdge said:

Da** it. I'll buy the game again :(. It"s the second timeNintendo convinces me to buy a game I already have and surprise, surprise, the other one was Ocarina of Time 3D. And I know that if they make Majora's Mask 3D they'll do the trick for the third time.

Masters.

ToniK

#11

ToniK said:

I'm almost kind of glad I never played the original. Now I can experience it for the first time in HD on my favorite console :) A few moons will pass before the Zelda U comes and this definitely makes the wait easier.

samstreet101

#12

samstreet101 said:

I think the reason that a lot of people remember the original as looking sharper (and indeed most older games) is that they used to be played on CRT televisions which had a much lower definition but due to the nature of a cathode ray tube, also smoothed out pixels due to a blurriness. That's not to say that it actually made the visuals sharper but you just tended not to notice it as much. That's why if you play older games on a current LCD HD TV, they look so much worse than most people remember them. Of course rose tinted glasses also play a part...

Kirk

#13

Kirk said:

It really does look great in HD.

As per usual, the comparison video makes the SD version look a million times worse than it actually does in reality. In actual practice the SD version looks very close to the HD version on my SDTV, in terms of cleanness and vibrancy etc, but it still looks stunning in HD and obviously has seen a few actual graphical improvements beyond just the upgrade in resolution.

It makes me really hope they go for something similar but just taken to the next level in the next Zelda game. Maybe going for just a little bit less of the "super deformed" slightly childish look. So, basically, like Ocarina of Time or Skyward Sword I guess but in a full next-gen version of this stunning and beautiful toon-shaded style and with really amazing lighting and shadows that go perfectly with the toon-shaded style.

Edit: Also, just to make this absolutely clear; It's not nostalgia making me think the original looks a million times better than it does in that comparison video; I'm actually l running it on my SDTV as a type and it simply looks brilliant and much much better and cleaner/clearer etc than that comparison video would have you believe.

unrandomsam

#15

unrandomsam said:

@samstreet101 Thats why I upgraded (Or downgraded) my wii's to connect to a CRT. (I prefer the way it looks at 480i over RGB Scart to any of the HDTV's I have over component at 480p).
The gamepad introduces a minimum of 1 frame latency plus whatever else is added by the TV. Cannot think of a solution that will be acceptable certainly for virtual console games that were designed with a CRT in mind.

goldenlander

#16

goldenlander said:

I don't agree with gameplay is more important than graphics because I believe that many people will prefer to play Wind Waker HD over Wind Waker SD.

Garo

#17

Garo said:

Looking good. I don't get why they put bloom in Helmaroc King's mouth though.

unrandomsam

#18

unrandomsam said:

@goldenlander Yeah but making it look nicer doesn't make the game any better.

Its funny how prior to the announcement of the remake people were somewhat indifferent to Wind Waker. (The Ocarina of Time + Master Quest bonus disk is the reason I still have it).

SpookyMeths

#22

SpookyMeths said:

You know, I think the world and art style in Wind Waker is mostly breathtaking and amazing, I love it, but 12 years later, I'm still not 100% on board with Chibi Link.

That said, the HD upgrade looks gorgeous and I'm sold.

SanderEvers

#23

SanderEvers said:

@goldenlander The gameplay is the same, but one does have better graphics. Graphics aren't as important as gameplay, but still important nonetheless.

@unrandomsam The Wind Waker is still my most favorite Zelda game.

BakaKnight

#24

BakaKnight said:

Couldn't resist to run WW on my gamecube after seeing the video >.>;
No doubts the new version look better, modern HD TVs make this even more inevitable.

Then again the old one still hold a charm and appear pretty good once your eyes get used to the old SD resolution ^_^
I guess WW didn't "need" a restyle, but... well, it's like a pretty girl. The fact she is already pretty doesn't mean she is not allowed to use a modern style to appear beautiful :)

Pachterkid

#26

Pachterkid said:

It looks the exact friggin' same, only brighter and in widescreen.

When Sony and Microsoft do HD re-releases they sell them at a discounted price. But nope, not Nintendo. Full $59.99. They're so desperate to have a game on their system that people actually want to play that they're going to charge full price, knowing full well that the fanboys will pay whatever they ask for.

AyeHaley

#28

AyeHaley said:

Why oh why is the game more expensive than Pikmin 3....Even digitally.
And now they pull me back showing how great the game now looks. Drop dead gorgeous.

NintyMan

#29

NintyMan said:

As someone who didn't play the original, it would be somewhat silly of me to play the old version when there will be a new version that looks to be better in every way. Looks like I'm sold.

Deathgaze

#30

Deathgaze said:

I just don't see why they picked WW. It still looks fine due to the cell shading which was an excellent choice for a Zelda game. They should have redone MM in my opinion. The graphics have aged the worse.

DualWielding

#31

DualWielding said:

Its so funny how Nintendo fans last generation were all about how they didn't care about HD and that only gameplay mattered, now Nintendo releases an old game with exactly the same gameplay, very little in term of extra content, and they all love it only because its in HD

Kirk

#32

Kirk said:

@Deathgaze

"The graphics have aged the worse."

THAT is exactly why they picked Wind Waker and not the likes of Majora's Mask.

To do an HD update of Wind Waker it's a lot less work than doing the same of Marjora's Mask, if you actually want the game to look good by today's standards and also be able to get it out in a timely manor.

Answer your question?

PS. This is the whole problem with going for the more "realistic" style in the likes of Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess; the "style" of the "realistic" games was based more on showing off the tech of the time than it was about pure artistry and that is ALWAYS going to age far worse than making a game that actually looks beautiful in it's own right as opposed to looking impressive because it's using some "cutting edge" graphical effects like bloom lighting and bump mapping etc. Artistry always trumps tech and certainly when it comes to creating a style that's going to hold up and still looking amazing in 10 or even 20 years time, just like A Link to the Past, Wind Waker and Skyward Sword will (for the most part) but Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess won't.

citizenerased

#33

citizenerased said:

I still prefer the flat colours and overall style of the original. And the new version over-uses bloom. Of course, it has things like draw distance, details and widescreen, which are all welcome.

@ferthepoet It's true, this shouldn't be as big of a deal as it is. Wii U's really still lacking in content.

Kirk

#34

Kirk said:

@citizenerased

I agree with those two observations.

I mean the HD version looks stunning and better than the original overall, mainly because of that jump to HD and the addition of the realtime lighting and shadows, but it would have looked even better if all that new-fangled lighting tech was used to created shadows that were still "toon-shaded" in style and the bloom lighting wasn't quite as pronounced.

The game does still look stunning though and I can easily overlook those little visual niggles in this particular case.

With the next Zelda I also want them to stick with this whole "toon-shading" method in general, going for a less "chibi" style of Link (as well as the other characters), really take advantage of the advanced lighting and shadows but once again with a proper toon-shaded style and just take this look to a whole new level.

Just try to picture a Zelda game like Ocarina of Time but in glorious and proper [fully realized] toon-shaded HD (like a high budget adult Manga cartoon or something - Ninja Scroll for example)...

I think that would without debate be the best looking Zelda game ever made as well as hold up near flawlessly over time too.

XyVoX

#37

XyVoX said:

Personally as good as this game is this is an extremely expensive HD remake of an old game and their charging Full price for it, its not getting my money unless its heavily reduced, also this Video is a cheap shot at the SD version because anyone with a brain would understand that the SD version is going to be looking mighty close when compared to the HD version and some small compressed vid box on the screen is a cheap shot in all honesty. Fact is if you were around when Windwaker was originally released you'd remember that the game was somewhat famous for missing several dungeons and other chunks of the game very rare for Nintendo to do this to a AAA title but time constraints etc now this isn't the same as other games you hear about devs didn't have time to put in the game, Nintendo AAA titles have exactly what content they should of had in them, this was the first time i'd experienced that from them eg Zelda OOT had lots of content deliberately left out (was later put in Majors mask) as the game was a complete package, Windwaker never was a complete package so second time around and SAID content STILL doesn't make into the game unforgivable in my opinion and full price to boot eg i told a mate who adored the game back in the Gamecube days about this HD remake several weeks ago now and the first thing he said is great cant wait to play the missing content the game should of had Mmmm he wasn't pleased to find out its not being put in.

Kirk

#38

Kirk said:

@ferthepoet

That's because most Nintendo "fans" don't actually have the slightest clue what they are talking about when they utter the immortal phrase "graphics don't matter".

Graphics have and always will matter.

The distinction however is that it's the artstyle and artistry of those graphics that matter, people have ALWAYS been and ALWAYS will be attracted to things that are visually appealing more than things that are ugly, and not the technology and graphical techniques of the time that are important (things like bloom lighting and bump mapping etc).

This is why A Link to the Past's graphics still look beautiful and visually appealing even now and Ocarina of Time's graphics look fugly as f*ck.

Graphics have and always will matter, just not in the way most laymen think they do or don't.

You'll still get the ignorant fanboys telling you otherwise however whenever it serves their purpose in defending Nintendo for being generations behind in terms of graphical technologies in their new consoles.

The debate won't end here that's for sure.

6ch6ris6

#39

6ch6ris6 said:

lol i think the gamecube version looks better. colours and contrast is better. wiiU version looks to bright for my taste.

i dont get the HD-hype

SpookyMeths

#40

SpookyMeths said:

Gameplay DOES matter more than graphics... but the gameplay of Wind Waker was already flawless. It also remains mostly unchanged. That's why nobody is talking about it. We're talking about how gorgeous the game looks because that's what was upgraded. The graphics.

All of the discussion of how incredible the gameplay was took place in 2002, because that's when the gameplay was new.

Person A: The graphics on Nintendo systems suck lol.
Person B: That's Ok, the gameplay is fantastic. Gameplay should always come before graphics.
Nintendo: We've improved the graphics!
Person B: Wow, it looks great.
Person A: SEE! I TOLD YOU GRAPHICS WERE IMPORTANT LOL!

Also, Ocarina of Time looks great on 3DS. Just put in Twilight Princess the other day, and it still looks fantastic too.

Jazzer94

#41

Jazzer94 said:

Gamecube version is still perfectly fine for me, I might pick this version up in a year or two.

Kirk

#43

Kirk said:

@CaviarMeths

In an interactive video game I think gameplay should always be paramount to anything else, since that's what actually defines it as a video game in the first place as opposed to just a picture or a movie or whatever but what you actually see on the screen has and always will be important.

You need to appeal to the sense of sight just as you need to appeal to the sense of kinesthetics and even the sense of sound.

The best video games nearly always appeal to all the main senses to a high degree, other than smell obviously, and that's true even of games with apparently simple graphics like Tetris for example; the graphics are technically simple and basic but they are still absolutely visually appealing in their clean geometric design (and indeed basically timeless as a result).

As I said before; the distinction is that visually appealing art/design is important in the graphics, good art and artistry is basically timeless and is an essential part of making any video game genuinely appealing, rather than impressive graphical technology of the day which will inevitably become dated and irrelevant in a couple of years time and will no longer be impressive anyway.

To put it simply I would say that gameplay is paramount and "graphics" DO actually matter.

LavaTwilight

#44

LavaTwilight said:

Stop tempting me to buy it!!! I can't afford it and I don't want to... oi what's this pre-order confirmation doing in my inbox???

Pod

#45

Pod said:

Those recordings of the old version are horrible. The depth of field effect appears as if the game is just overall blurry, probably to make the new game look sharper and to hide the fact that this is a removed art style element.

The detailed textures pop more, which is nice, but all the color palettes have been destroyed, and just adding HD to the title is the epitome of poor taste if you ask me.

Yup, I'm my sour old self what this rerelease is concerned.

biglee

#46

biglee said:

I'm kind of glad I waited this long to catch up on the Zelda series. I'm playing Ocarina of Time all the way through for the first time on my 3DS XL and pretty soon I'll get to play Wind Waker for the first time in HD on my Wii U! Now I'm just waiting for Nintendo to announce Majora's Mask 3D! B-)

Marshi

#47

Marshi said:

@Pachterkid I dont remember the gamecube version having soft shadows,or bloom,or sharper textures,or particle effects that good...

Nor do I remember god of war hd collection,jak and daxter trilogy or the ico/shadow of the collossus bundle having off tv play,miiverse messages or photo oportunities...

Ailingforale

#48

Ailingforale said:

Wind Waker was one of the first Zelda games I actually played through to completion. While I experienced WW at Pax and it did look fantastic (as does the comparison video) I couldn't help but think to myself "but I've already played this game...".

I probably won't be picking this up on day one, but if one of my friends of family are feeling generous this b-day or holiday season I won't mind. After all, my daughter is close to playing games too.

Shambo

#49

Shambo said:

@DarkCoolEdge So, you managed to avoid Link to the Past advance? And Starfox 64 3d? Super Mario 64 ds?...
... I didn't. And that's not even counting VC games...

rjejr

#50

rjejr said:

It looks like they took a usual 3D video game engine and flattened it out to a 2D cartoon. It looks beautiful, all bright and widescreen cartoon, but it seems less like an actual 3D character model now. (Some of my favorite looking games were the Dremacast JRPGS Grandia 3 and Skies of Arcadia, and nothing has ever looked better than Starfox Adventures on the Gamecube.)

To add to the SD vs. HD discussion, I had a 36" 4:3 SD CRT hooked up to my Wii (via component) and most of the 1st party games looked great. Bought a 52" WS 1080p HD and the Wii games became very hard to look at it. You just can't watch SD signals that were made for 19 and 25" SD tvs on big screen HD tvs.

Boxmonkey

#51

Boxmonkey said:

This will be the first game I download! It's small file size makes sense as I've got slow Internet.

sinalefa

#53

sinalefa said:

I will be playing this game for the first time, so I am awaiting that.

Also, how is this game full price? Last I saw Amazon had it at $50, and $60 is the full price of an HD game. The Ganondorf edition may be $60, and that is a special edition, which are usually more expensive.

Whopper744

#54

Whopper744 said:

This looks fantastic. Got mine preordered with the Ganondorf figure. (yeah i still own the old one but I'm a fool when it comes to Zelda games I guess).
One thing I don't like though, I feel like you can't see as far in the new one because at times it looks like you are looking through a bright morning fog.

Incognito_D

#56

Incognito_D said:

I honestly think they've ruined it with the bloom and washed-out colours. Am I the only one that feels this way? :(

Radbot42

#57

Radbot42 said:

It looks good, but why can't they round out the edges? They did the same thing for OoT 3D everything looked updated but edgy all at the same time. Just take a look at the fences

TruenoGT

#58

TruenoGT said:

The updates looks awesome, but I'm just as excited for the 60fps performance (not shown in the video obviously). I think this is probably the first non-2D Zelda at 60 fps, should look and play super smooth!

Kirk

#60

Kirk said:

@Radbot42

Because unlike many people mistakenly imagine this really is just an HD update and not a proper remake (with a few small token additions, like the Miiverse message in a bottle thing, and a couple of extra areas of tweaking and some graphical polish here and there for good measure).

They haven't remade the original game. They've simply tweaked the top layer of the existing GameCube game as it were.

The underlying 3D models and stuff are all the same, as is the basic gameplay and game code etc, as changing those kinds elements would take much longer and be far too much work for what was always meant to be simply an HD update, not a remake or new game. A very good one but an HD update nonetheless.

They've done a pretty good job all things considered.

That applies to both the OOT 3D and Wind Waker HD.

Edit: I mean if you actually look at the original game simply running in HD, without any of the other additions and tweaks in this Wii U HD version, you can see how close it really is. Go to YouTube and search for 'Wind Waker GameCube HD' and pick the 6th video down on the list to see exactly what I mean. I'd post the link here myself but it's against the rules, annoyingly.

element187

#61

element187 said:

How can anyone look at this video and just think this is an upscaled port. Look at the two closely, Shading has been added, all new art, backgrounds, ground, etc.

This is a real remake, not a Sony "remake" where they just upscale their old titles and call it a remake that the suckers dish out cash for.

element187

#62

element187 said:

@SilentHunter382 If they would have stretched the Gamecube game it would look pixelated and nasty... keeping it in its native resolution makes it look a lot better than blowing it up to 720p/1080p

Kirk

#63

Kirk said:

@element187

See my post directly above and please go view the video I mentioned too.

Nintendo has added a few graphical effects and polished things here and there but this is very much just an HD update and not a true remake in the slightest.

Resident Evil and Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes on GC were proper remakes, just for example:

odd69

#65

odd69 said:

Fifty bucks is alot for a fresh paint of coat. Flame me all you guys want but i feel the money Nintendo spent on a game already made could have spent on a entirely new Zelda. See Nintendo wants us to re-buy every console but @#$% that you guys go ahead with it. geeze it looks so damn good though.

Its good to know im not the only one who can see right through this, so i can not feel alone here

vonseux

#67

vonseux said:

"This is how Wind Waker was meant to be played."
Bullpoopiedoodlecacapoop!! Windwaker looked absolutely breathtaking at the time. The new HD visuals are just that, HD; it doesn't awe in comparison to other games on the marked like the gamecube did back in the day.
Watch the profanity please — TBD

TheAdrock

#69

TheAdrock said:

@odd69 "the money Nintendo spent on a game already made could have spent on a entirely new Zelda." ...
Not even close. To re-render an existing game is a piece of cake. There's no creative process nor even much debugging to do with a re-render. Its so simple that I propose Nintendo do this to all the Zeldas. Not a remaster like the new Ducktales (which is a whole new game), just new paint. I'd buy every one of them if they did that. And its a snap for Nintendo to perform, relative to a new game.

@Kirk "To do an HD update of Wind Waker it's a lot less work than doing the same of Marjora's Mask." ...
I'm pretty sure that's not accurate. Pretty much the same technical effort to re-render an old game. They could pop out HD Zelda reissues every couple months (again, not remasters, just new paint of an existing title). $50 is steep, but $20 would be a value price point, and they've got enough material sitting around.

TheAdrock

#70

TheAdrock said:

@Pachterkid "It looks the exact friggin' same, only brighter and in widescreen."

Either you're trolling, you didn't look very closely, or you should have your eyes checked. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you simply didn't look very closely. The details are far more vivid, not just brighter.

Dreamcaster-X

#71

Dreamcaster-X said:

I'm hoping GTA V keeps me occupied enough that I can avoid buying the digital copy of this long enough to make it to the physical disc release date of October 4th.

Dyltheman

#74

Dyltheman said:

Im impressed! This is probably what a wii u sequel of the wind waker would look like!

yvanjean

#75

yvanjean said:

@6ch6ris6

That comment just make you look ignorant.

It's like saying "Oh I like my black and white tv, these new color tv's make the image blurry"

Wind Waker HD look amazing and I actually never played much of the original never really dig the art style back in the day. But, I'm ready to put that aside and enjoy this brand new experience for myself.

yvanjean

#76

yvanjean said:

@SilentHunter382

The Gamecube was standard definition and the new WW HD is in widescreen. In order to match the size they would of had to stretch the Gamecube image which wouldn't of been fair to the original graphic design.

The image size was smaller back on SD, hence why the WW HD is such a great improvement over the original, Just the added viewing angle will make this a much better enjoyment to be played.

Darknyht

#77

Darknyht said:

I've been debating this vs Skyward Sword. I think Skyward Sword is going to win out. I've already played Wind Waker (with the Game Boy Advance attached).

Honestly, I am not that impressed with the update because I see what already was done with the original game and the dolphin emulator. The only difference between the two is the textures were smoothed so there is no palatalization.

yvanjean

#78

yvanjean said:

@Incognito_D

I feel like the new version is much brighter but if you think about it, Link is on Island with bright sun overhead it should be brighter. Beside, WW cartoonist art style was always meant to be this way they weren't going for Batman vibe which would of been colder and darker.

If you look at the dungeon level in the short clip (22sec-25sec), the area as been brighten up but now the focus will be on game play rather then struggling because the area is too dark. They can build tension with music and just the fight you encounter during the exploration of the dungeon. Beside in the gamecube version the lamp from the minion barely as any lighting effect, the new WW HD version add much more realism to the game and the HD make the entire area look so much more crisp and beautiful.

This is actually the very first Zelda HD and it look amazing. I can't wait to see what the new Zelda WiiU will look and play. It's going to be epic.

DarkCoolEdge

#80

DarkCoolEdge said:

@Shambo Yes I did BUT I've just remembered Metroid Prime, Metroid Prime 3 and Trilogy. Nevertheless, I hadn't played the MP nor MP3 prior toTrilogy.
The same goes for Wind Waker.

Gregor

#81

Gregor said:

I don't give a sh** Nintendo! There is STILL too much lens flare. Whatever. Ill sue them later after my retinas have been fried.

Gregor

#82

Gregor said:

The reason I'm peeved off at this game's existence is because the fresh paint coat is unnecessary. Wind Waker looks fine to this day. I think Metroid Prime would deserve the HD instead as it was the one going for realism.

odd69

#84

odd69 said:

@theadrock13
so in other words it wasn't expensive enough to build a whole new game. i can see that. i think i would buy them all if they had a fresh paint of coat too especially if they re-did a link to the past (OMG i would squeal), so i guess this one isn't any exception. So i will have to get it. Ugh just didnt want to spend so much, games are getting highly priced and i want them all.

AltDotNerd

#85

AltDotNerd said:

@Kirk "Just try to picture a Zelda game like Ocarina of Time but in glorious and proper [fully realized] toon-shaded HD."

Skyward Sword is the perfect example of that, isn't it?

TheRealThanos

#87

TheRealThanos said:

@rjejr you should try this gizmo for your Wii:
http://www.tmart.com/Converter-Cable-720-1080p-for-WII-to-HDMI_p163575.html
I don't know which titles you own, but first party titles and the bigger titles from 2nd and 3rd party developers look absolutely amazing now. When I tried it out the first time I played Donkey Kong Country Returns and I was literally blown away by how good a non HD game can look if the visuals are cleaned up and it is upscaled. Almost like having a look at a dev kit hooked to a PC. Before HD, graphics almost always looked (a bit) worse when consumers connected their console to their TV set, because of the standard cables and of course CRT TV's. Before this I switched my standard cables for component cables, but they only clean up the image, which doesn't get everything possible out of the graphics. I have this little box for my Wii now and couldn't be happier. I also have a VGA Box for my Dreamcast and that too is a MAJOR difference...

TheAdrock

#89

TheAdrock said:

@odd69 , if they "re-painted" LttP to look like this new Link Between Worlds that's coming out on 3Ds... legit. Same goes for the original LoZ. They'd sell a shiz load of those old titles at $20-$30. And I want TP in HD on the U. Lets go Ninty — put those old "stale" IPs to work for you!

TheRealThanos

#91

TheRealThanos said:

@theadrock13 You're welcome to it, to 'just sayin'... but the answer is a resounding NO.
And more important: with that your NOT taking into account people not owning a Wii U yet or people that want to keep their old Wii as well next to their Wii U, for which there are quite a few valid reasons. And with this little box you can at least max out your Wii's graphics, even on a large HD TV.
And as far as I know the Wii U only does minor cleaning and upscaling, it has no dedicated hardware for upscaling of Wii games or VC games and this separate box does, so the result is still better.

And thanks for answering a question not directed at you... ;)

MyFriendOfMisery

#94

MyFriendOfMisery said:

@SilentHunter382 Not at all...

that looks to scale between 640x480, which the Gamecube rendered at....

and 1920x1080 which the Wii U is rendering this game at!

Nothing is being compressed, the Gamecube really renders at that size compared to 1080p. If you're doing a to scale presentation with both sizes being shown on screen that's the only way to do it accurately.

Admittedly most Wii U games aren't (most render at 720p) and probably won't ever be. If you're doing a to scale presentation with both sizes being shown on screen that's the only way to do it accurately. I think Smash is supposed to be 1080p though. It's almost twice the pixels of 1280x720p for perspective.

PinkSpider

#96

PinkSpider said:

Sweet this should give a reality check to what a proper HD remake should look like. I'm looking at you, ICO Shadow of colossus, Metal Gear, Hitman etc

MyFriendOfMisery

#97

MyFriendOfMisery said:

@PinkSpider MGS2, MGS3, and Peace Walker were done at 60 FPS in the HD collection, looking online despite what the back of the case said (Black Ops 2 has the same lie) the games are outputted in 720p, not 1080p (actually Black Ops 2 apparently was 600p or some crazy thing). PS360 have much older GPU's and and a fourth of the RAM available for games so not surprising. In actual fact very few games at all outputted in 1080p last generation, merely upscaling for your TV. For those who don't know, upscaling is not the same thing, though it does take hardware resources in itself. PS4 and XB1 should have more 1080p and like here Wii U can handle a few, even with bloom, anti-aliasing, and increased draw distance. It's a caught in between machine but it is definitely more powerful than PS360 despite what some would have you believe.

I assume Konami had to sacrifice 1080p for 60 FPS. Unfortunately outputting 1920x1080 takes an enormous amount of resources.

PinkSpider

#99

PinkSpider said:

Im not talking about 1080p I'm talking about the whole package the graphics of those HD remakes were not changed at all. It was basically the same game

MyFriendOfMisery

#100

MyFriendOfMisery said:

@PinkSpider Yup, then again you got more games for the price so there's always two ways of looking at things. A lot of people underestimate the amount of changes made to WWHD though. MGS2 was just a PS2 game running in 720p in comparison which made the outdated textures stand out, amazing game though.

PinkSpider

#103

PinkSpider said:

Thinking about remakes made me think of Klonoa that was an excellent remake and the new graphics engine made the game even better.
Seems like Nintendo get the most well made remakes

djepic209

#104

djepic209 said:

@goldenlander
Well to be fair, most people that played the original feel that re-buying Wind Waker wasn't gonna happen based just on the updated HD graphics... it's because of the gamplay tweeks like the Hero Mode, faster sailing and easier collecting quest... It's because of the gameplay changes, not the HD graphics, so i feel that you are not quite correct.

SCAR392

#105

SCAR392 said:

It still looks basically the same to me. Definately an improvement, no doubt, but the artstyle seems to have held up through time, making any ammount of improvement difficult without changing the graphics entirely.

I won't be getting this ASAP.

Also, @abovecomments: I agree, the PS HD remastered games are kind of a joke compared to this. They just ported the game for HD like Nintendo does for VC games. In this case, Sony is actually a generation behind in quality, at least for one title.

EDIT: If GCN games show up on VC(which is basically gonna happen), they'll be in HD anyway.

Kirk

#107

Kirk said:

@AltDotNerd

Not quite.

Skyward Sword has more of a watercolor-painterly style to it's levels and backgrounds.

Which is lovely in it's own way but not quite "toon-shaded" as I mean it.

The characters would probably work just fine in the kind of toon-shaded game I'm on about though.

Talking of Skyward Sword; I wouldn't mind if Nintendo released a full-on HD version of that game with enhanced lighting and shadows, and a few other little tweaks here and there, for Wii U too. In fact, it probably really should since it would likely take very little additional effort to get it on the system and I don't think anyone would mind another lovely Zelda HD update in the meantime while we're waiting on the proper next-gen Zelda.

smashbrolink

#108

smashbrolink said:

@Kirk IIRC, Nintendo confirmed themselves that they went back and remade the majority of the game's visuals from the ground up in addition to the mechanics for the new items and the revamp of the Triforce quest.
The models, due to the new visuals, move differently and feel more fluid as well.
This is not just a touched-up port. Not by any stretch other than the base gameplay, island positions in the overworld, and plot being the same.

Hong

#109

Hong said:

HD = Bloom. :/

I like the improved lighting and shading, but I have never been a fan of bloom. It is not pretty or artistic or realistic in any game.

JaxonH

#110

JaxonH said:

@Kirk
You're absolutely right, graphics DO matter, just like gameplay matters, but I think what people mean by "graphics don't matter", is that graphics aren't the be all and end all of what makes a game good, as many spec fanboys would have us believe. Obviously we all want better graphics- who doesn't, right? But I think what people are trying to say is just because a game doesn't have good graphics, that doesn't automatically make it a bad game (although it is certainly a strike against it).

If forced to choose between graphics or gameplay, I think the answer is obvious, since only one of those factors can produce a fun experience on their own. Having said that, graphics can greatly improve upon the fun which is first grounded in the foundation of gameplay. As I'm sure you know, there are many ignorant "gamers" out there that would have you and I believe that if a game isn't running on the latest and most powerful machine with cutting edge graphics, the game isn't legit. And THAT'S where the phrase "graphics doesn't matter" stems from (at least that's my perception of the situation).

JaxonH

#111

JaxonH said:

@Pachterkid
Do you come here just to troll?

I haven't read one post of yours that isn't insulting, demeaning, degrading, minimizing, or slandering Nintendo in everything they do. This is a FAN site. You're obviously not a fan, so why deafen our ears with your endless criticism?

TheRealThanos

#112

TheRealThanos said:

To all: (or at least quite a few of you)
Here's two cents (and before I get bashed, NOT particularly mine):
How about the FACT that this is EXACTLY what the producers and developers always envisioned Wind Waker to be, so essentially this would make this 'The Director's Cut' and all this talk about what is ugly or nice about it is a waste of time and energy, ESPECIALLY if people start spouting their opinion as facts (I hate that. Learn to say 'I think that' instead of 'it is') while it ACTUALLY doesn't matter one bit because it's their game, so if they want it to look like that, then it is good by definition because that is how they intended it to be. If you don't like that, that's fine. Just save your money and buy another game instead of this one.
@JaxonH Good comments, those last two. Although I would make a slight alteration to the 'it's certainly a strike against it' remark. I'd say it's a minor or partial strike. Gameplay, as you said yourself, is still and will always be king. A drop dead gorgeous game that has zero to no story or has clunky controls, bad AI or hit detection will NEVER win from a less graphics-heavy game that DOES get all these points right.
@Kirk

Artistry always trumps tech and certainly when it comes to creating a style that's going to hold up and still looking amazing in 10 or even 20 years time, just like A Link to the Past, Wind Waker and Skyward Sword will (for the most part) but Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess won't.

I can agree for the most part and understand what your trying to say, especially as far as LttP is concerned (after all, there's a reason that they're mimicking those visuals in the new 3DS game) but Ocarina of time is a landmark game, and is awarded as such, both in artistry AND in the 3D world/adventure genre. The music and the story are still coveted and therefore I believe that it too will still be amazing for quite some time to come.
As far as I'm concerned for as long as I live because of the fond memories connected to it, as I'm sure many of us have.

HappyHappyist

#114

HappyHappyist said:

honestly, it looks almost the exact same to me (just me though). i'm still buying this game, but still...

rjejr

#115

rjejr said:

@TheRealThanos - I always wanted a Dreamcast VGA box but I was too cheap to buy one. 8-(

My wife wasn't thrilled w/ the Wii U purchase, buying a new toy to hook up the old Wii is a non-starter. Actually I'm not even sure it's hooked up anymore. Thanks though.

Zombie_Barioth

#116

Zombie_Barioth said:

The HD version looks really good but doesn't make the original look any worse in comparison, both look good in their own right I think. I don't really care for the glowing affect they used though, I get what they're going for with it but the bright, white light is a bit hard to look at.

TurboPikachu

#117

TurboPikachu said:

@Pachterkid
First off, the game IS at a discount. $49.99, the price of the original game.

And second, did you ever stop to realize that kids aren't the only ones who haven't experienced the original? I had 20+ games for my GameCube, but Wind Waker sadly wasn't one of them. I'll gladly pay $59.99 for the limited edition Wind Waker set that includes the Ganondorf figurine. This will be a 100% fresh, new experience for me, and the enhanced graphics and full, native 1080p resolution will be greatly appreciated, especially since I'm getting pretty tired of the fact that most Wii U games currently run at 720p with no AA or upscaling.

Marioman64

#118

Marioman64 said:

now thats the shiny compariosn footage i've been waiting for! i knew it was better looking but geez that's well done

GloryQuestor

#119

GloryQuestor said:

Even though I like the outdoor environments on HD, the indoors are just way too bright in contrast. The visual on the interior of the Forsaken Fortress we're shown is just really bad ... the dark environments that set the mood are replaced with lifeless lighted environments that seem rather dull and uninspired.

I really hope that this isn't how you're going to remake it, Nintendo. If it is, I'm sticking with my GameCube version. :|

ikki5

#120

ikki5 said:

@SilentHunter382
they did have full screen comparisons. The would show the Gamecube and then the Wii U right after of the same scene. Watch the video again

@Pachterkid

This isn't a full price game at $60. if you get the special edition one with the figurine, then you pay $60. Also, you must be blind to see the difference. Look at how much cleaner it is, Distance stuff is blurry and in the HD it is not.Textures are a lot smoother and cleaner, lighting is much better. Please actually watch the video and do your research before you make yourself look like an idiot.

Shambo

#122

Shambo said:

@DarkCoolEdge Metroid Prime trilogy is one of the best values money could buy, so no one should've skipped that. Also, Starfox 64 3d is another one you shouldn't barrel-roll around. It's gorgeous, has 4 player download play with real-time camera images of the player's faces, and can be played with motion controls (preferably in 2d).

DarkCoolEdge

#123

DarkCoolEdge said:

@Shambo I actually want Star Fox. I'm just waiting to buy it because:
a) too many games, not much time
b) waiting for a price drop, I'm not paying 40-45€ for it. I'd go as far as 30€, not more.

Kirk

#124

Kirk said:

@smashbrolink

Do you think Nintendo's marketing team would be more likely to oversell they work the did on this update, tell it exactly like it is or undersell it?

Kirk

#125

Kirk said:

@JaxonH

I agree with everything you said.

The problem I have is that I see FAR more fanboys using that phrase as a catch-all excuse to justify basically outdated graphics and tech, mostly Nintendo fanboys, than I see graphics wh*res using the opposite argument to suggest games without cutting edge graphics are actually bad games.

I see graphics wh*res moaning when a game has bad graphics (as well as people who simply appreciate nice visuals), which I 100% understand and agree with, but that's a whole different thing.

So to me the bigger problem is actually those totally blind fanboys who will defend absolutely anything Nintendo does no matter what, like the whole graphics debate regarding Nintendo's last few clearly under-powered consoles (home and handheld), even when sometimes it's blatant to anyone but fanboys that Nintendo is at fault for making some very short-term based decisions regarding their hardware and tech etc.

I do agree with what you've said though.

Kirk

#126

Kirk said:

@TheRealThanos

I agree that OOT is truly a landmark title, and it's right at the top of my personal best Zelda games list, maybe switching between OOT, ALTTP and SS depending on how I feel, but the graphics really don't hold up anywhere near as well as the likes of ALTTP or WW for example and that will be truer in twenty years time that it is even today.

TheRealThanos

#127

TheRealThanos said:

@Kirk because of the simple and blocky 3D compared to current graphics? Of course, with a specific art style it is WAY easier to keep a 2D game in the top charts for years to come, but all in all OoT is still a pretty remarkable game and I also like the 3DS version with it's subtle changes. I do get your point though and the same will go for a lot of other N64 games although recently playing through Wave Race 64 and 1080 still made me smile. With your verdict in mind I fear for many a Playstation 1 game though... ;)

TheRealThanos

#128

TheRealThanos said:

@rjejr Ah, the wife... yep, that can be a tough sell if she's not into gaming as much as you are. Although in 'our' defence, both the Dreamcast VGA box can be bought for a price that doesn't break the bank and even combined will definitely be cheaper than buying a new game (which you know you will eventually) ;)
Currently I'm single again but during my last relationship I always used my professional sales/marketing skills to great effect to convince my girlfriend.
I can sell the proverbial fridge to an Eskimo, if need be...

TheRealThanos

#130

TheRealThanos said:

@Assassinated I think they did a slight over-exaggeration of the comparison to emphasize the fact that they now have more colors, realtime lighting effects and quite a bit more detail. I think the final product will look just fine.
@GloryQuestor I have NO idea what the hell you're talking about. During this whole commenting run I've watched the trailer over and over again to see what people meant when they brought up a certain point, but yours I will just gather under opinion instead of actually having a point, no offense. The fact that you have all these new possibilities hardware-wise makes for some difference, true but the interior of the fortress is still dark, it's just that the lighting of the torches is better and because of there being more detail, you're obviously going to be able to see more, even in a dark hallway with just torches...

TheRealThanos

#132

TheRealThanos said:

@rjejr Ouch... But you do not have to be a sales professional to try and get what you want in your private life. In most cases the trick is just to keep it short and simple, tit for tat and so on. Give her something she wants, whatever it is, as long as it is achievable (even if you don't like or hate to do it) or do something for the kids and with that you'll hopefully build up some credit. And never be afraid to remind her of that whenever the situation arises. 'Remember that I did <insert task> for you last summer? Well, this is something I want and after that I'll be out of your hair.' Or make a direct trade: if you do something, you will get something, fair and square... ;)

element187

#133

element187 said:

@Kirk Apparently you have never played Wind Waker at 1080p on Dolphin. It looks no where close to as good as Wind Waker HD remake.... all the backgrounds and art have been completely remade... Go look at the light house, its no longer a flat cel-shade object, it now has depth/textures. Look all the new shadows that weren't there before.

I'm sorry but your credibility on what constitutes a remake and what is an uprezzed port is completely switched up. Playing Wind Waker on Dolphin at 1080p (which is the only time I ever played the game) can't even hold a candle to Ninty's remake.

Kirk

#134

Kirk said:

@element187

We can debate it till the cows come home but what you think is some kind of whole new game or something I see as a simple HD update.

The team have done a little more work on it than some teams do on their HD updates, sure, but it is an HD update.

All the backgrounds and art have not been completely remade. Many of the textures have been touched up or redone, sure, but sometimes that's kinda the whole point of an HD update. The lighting is the biggest change graphically but that really is just a matter of adding in some basic lighting code and shaders to get the global illumination and shadows that this game now has. You don't have to remake this game to add stuff like that in. You just layer it all on top of the existing game.

My impression here, based on what you're saying, is that you don't actually make games and yet you think you know what it takes to make them.

It is not a remake, no matter how much your fanboy wants to believe it is.

Also, if you read some of my previous replies you'll see I've already talked about comparing the Dolphin version to this HD update, and I even suggested some videos and stuff to get a good idea of what I was on about, in this case so you can actually see that it really is just the same game (the actual GC game now running on Wii U with all the same 3D assets, underlying code and sound files etc) but with a few new coats of graphical polish and a couple of tweaks here and there.

I've mad enough games myself to be pretty much 100% sure of this.

It still looks great though so that's not to take anything away from the game in the slightest.

Kirk

#135

Kirk said:

@TheRealThanos

Yeah, most PS1 game really do not stand the test of time graphically.

Usually, the old 3D games that focus more on keeping things simple and clean, often using simple shaded polygons rather then textured polygons, tend to hold up much better visually.

A game like Diddy Kong Racing for example still actually looks very pretty for the most part because most of the graphics use simple smooth shaded polygon surfaces(probably some form of gouraud shading) with clean bold colors that hold up rather well over time.

I actually find it interesting that a game like Virtua Racing in the arcade for example holds up a lot better than many of the early fully textured racing games, despite it obviously being made up of simple polygons. Apart from the obvious lack of draw distance the graphics actually look almost timeless in their own unique flat-shaded polygon style. Nice clean surfaces and pure colors really do stand the test of time it seems (which actually makes sense).

This is why I think Wind Waker tends to hold up better than most of the other 3D Zelda games because it was kept very simple and clean so there's actually not a lot in it that can age particularly bad visually, to a degree. Even the parts that are fully textured often use very simple clean patterns that hold up better than the most detailed "realistic" textures of a game like Ocarina of Time for example, where most of the textured surfaces just look really blurry and muddy nowadays.

Jllanos22

#136

Jllanos22 said:

Awesome graphics but price too high since it is a remake.
It's stupid to buy it at that price having the gamecube version!!!

Shambo

#138

Shambo said:

@DarkCoolEdge A price drop on a first party Nintendo game... Takes a LONG time, in most cases. I bought it for €20 used, and never regretted it.

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