News Article

Atari Founder Nolan Bushnell Claims Nintendo "Could Be On The Path To Irrelevance"

Posted by Damien McFerran

Says a handheld gaming-only device "doesn't make sense any more"

Atari founder Nolan Bushnell has spoken about Nintendo's current situation and admitted that the company finds itself in a "very difficult position".

Talking to the BBC at Campus Party Europe — a London-based O2 event involving thousands of developers working on various technology projects — Bushnell also had harsh words to say about the dedicated handheld gaming market, which he feels is under threat from smartphones and tablet devices. He also claimed that Nintendo's focus on younger players is holding it back.

He said:

I don't think handheld game-only devices make sense anymore, not when you have an iPod or an Android microtablet.

When it comes to the console market, I think the market is truncating.

Nintendo always had a soft spot for young people - they sort of did the 12-and-under pretty well, and the other guys did the 12-and-over.

And now I think the other [consoles] are good enough on those things, and the rush to upgrade from the 12-and-under is not nearly as important.

He ended the segment with the grim prediction that Nintendo "could be on the path to irrelevance".

Bushnell has previously admitted that he's baffled by the Wii U, and that he feels the console marks "the end of an era".

[via bbc.co.uk]

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User Comments (300)

Koldur

#2

Koldur said:

ROFL! And this guy thinks he knows how to save a gaming brand, I don't think so!

Rockmirth

#3

Rockmirth said:

dont understand the when you hace an ipad or android thing, I only use my tablet for gaming. I have never used it for watching movies or surfing the web (I have read like 2 mangas on it though) so i dont get why we need more than that for a handheld.

SanderEvers

#5

SanderEvers said:

@Longforgotten QFT.

Really, Gaming on a tablet is horrible. I still need physical buttons. I do have an iPod touch and sometimes I do play games (Angry Birds) on it, but I use it mostly to listen to music or play a video. I don't need those features on a game console.

Jono97

#6

Jono97 said:

I kinda agree... The 3DS will do well this generation.. But for the next.. Nintendo needs to do something new. Next gen needs to be more than a DS... Consoles succeeded because they were more powerful than the regular PC. Now, it's almost the other way round. Mobile OS used to be slow and hard to use with minimal developer support. Now they're flooded with developers. Both good and bad. Nintendo's next gen will need to have something exclusive that people want and have certain features that are more superior than other mobile devices.

Pahvi

#10

Pahvi said:

"I'd much rather have made the Atari and crashed it than never had made Atari at all." Even then, he left Atari in 1978 - before ET, Pacman and the videogame crash.

Second, don't pay much as much attention to those who succeeded but those who failed - see where they went wrong and avoid it yourself. "Do as I tell you, not as I did."

MAB

#13

MAB said:

Untitled
Someone said something bad about Nintendo... Quick! post it as news on all websites, STAT! ;)

Beta

#14

Beta said:

So, wait, gaming devices shouldn't be focused on gaming anymore? Can you even compare a gaming device to a tablet/phone with a straight face? Two different universes, really. The tablet is nice and all for the movies, surfing the internet and those kinds of stuff, but when it comes to gaming, it sucks big time. I don't want to play time wasters, I want to play immersive games, they're the escape from the darkness of this world (at least, for me) and not games I'll be playing for 5 minutes... :P

Deathgaze

#15

Deathgaze said:

All I'm reading is the comments of many angry people. The man has a point. The gaming market as a whole is moving away from what it's been for the last few years very, very fast and Nintendo refuses to do anything amazing but gimmicky nonsense, now they will feel the burn. I don't want Nintendo's handhelds to go away but the 3DS is a huge step down from the mighty DS. Both for games and region locking. With that being said I'm looking forward to the day Nintendo pulls a Sega and goes software.

I love it how people think this man's opinion is invalid because of Atari. I don't think anyone here is smart nor old enough to truly understand how much good the 2600 did for the industry. Arguably without them there would be no video games in the western world. Show some respect.
Watch the insults please, your points stand just fine without them — TBD

Flynn

#17

Flynn said:

@Lithium The 3DS is a huge step down from the DS? Right, whatever you say...

Anywho, its his opinion, so I really couldn't careless.

Bass_X0

#19

Bass_X0 said:

Gaming only? But I regularly use my 3DS to browse the internet, listen to music, read books (on DS cartridge), take and look at photographs.

The only things I can't do with it are call someone on the phone, listen to the radio and watch videos. But I have my cheap phone to do the first two.

Next time, Nintendo needs some kind of video support, even if its just the ability to watch YouTube videos.

Fazermint

#20

Fazermint said:

"I don't think handheld game-only devices make sense anymore, not when you have an iPod or an Android microtablet"
Because real gamers play iPhone games. Because the 3DS is a huge failure.

"Nintendo always had a soft spot for young people - they sort of did the 12-and-under pretty well, and the other guys did the 12-and-over."
Utter nonsense. This statement is not based on actual facts. I'm pretty sure half (or more) of Nintendo owners are 12+

"He ended the segment with the grim prediction that Nintendo "could be on the path to irrelevance"."
The leading innovator in gaming has a bad year with the Wii U, so it's time to declare the king irrelevant. GG

Reverandjames

#21

Reverandjames said:

Whilst the 3D option is a gimmick, it has helped sell a bucket load of consoles. How can a hand held console not make any sense when it is selling more than the home console, and is giving the PS3 and Xbox 360 a run for it's money in terms of sales and quality first party support.

By the way, when is the new Atari console coming out? Oh wait....

Deathgaze

#22

Deathgaze said:

@SMT4Protag Yep. No amazing games like The World Ends With You, 3D remakes of FF3 and 4, Phoenix Wright 1-3 (I don't support digital distribution so haven't played the 3DS one), Metroid Prime, Advance Wars, Radiant Historia, Ouendan, the first time PAL regions got Chrono Trigger and other heap of A+ titles. My 3DS is a Animal Crossing and Fire Emblem machine. That's all it's good for. Most games that look like my kinda thing I can't have because they are not released in my region. And you know, region locking is such a consumer friendly thing and makes sense even more so when you put it on a handheld. As much as I love my NES, SNES and GB to DS, I want Nintendo to go software.

pukka-pie

#24

pukka-pie said:

I disagree massively; the difference between an android device and a 3DS (and Vita) is huge, they're dedicated gaming consoles with big budget releases. I bought an iPhone with the intention of playing games on it but it was pathetically insubstantial, I have since completely stopped using it for games and recently bought a 3DS. The line between home consoles and handhelds is blurring, for me handheld consoles are now much much more exciting than ever and the huge sales of the 3DS prove that i'm not the only one that thinks so.

And for me the WiiU marks the beginning of a new era (hopefully), although the gamepad has a screen, which is certainly a new innovation, it is essentially a classic controller, Nintendo are taking their first tentative steps back towards more conventional gaming (after the Wii).

I fear for a console market without Nintendo; Microsoft and Sony are about as innovative as a piece of cheese.

I haven't got a Wii U yet but I will get one, the sales will spike with just about every big name release that Nintendo makes. Irrelevancy? I highly doubt it, bear in mind he likely thought the same when the Gamecube flopped.

ToniK

#25

ToniK said:

I still haven't seen a game on a tablet device that I would take seriously. There's some fun to be found, sure, but no real games. I also prefer working and accurate controls. I guess I'm old-fashioned then.

Reverandjames

#26

Reverandjames said:

@pukka-pie agreed. Have you tried to play Mutant Mudds on ios? For a platformer that demands precise button pressing, it just doesn't work with the touch screen. pointless.

Beta

#27

Beta said:

@Lithium: Dude/dudette, how many years did it take for all those games to come out? The 3DS is just in its 3rd year and it already has a lot of great games yet to come. Just because there wasn't any sequels to the games you mentioned doesn't mean the whole system is a failure or a "Animal Crossing and Fire Emblem" machine. It's just a matter of taste, you might not like what the 3DS has right now but others LOVE it.

Reverandjames

#28

Reverandjames said:

@Beta Mine's an Animal Crossing, Fire Emblem, Mario Kart 7, Luigi's Mansion, NSMB2, Super Mario 3D Land, Monster Hunter 4, soon to be Pokemon X/Y machine!

Hetsumani

#29

Hetsumani said:

@Jono97 Consoles have never been more powerful than regular PCs. They succeeded because they are cheaper and easier to use than a PC.

Flynn

#31

Flynn said:

@Lithium I don't think so. Except for region locking, blah. Anyways, have you not played SMT4, Etrian odyessy 4, monster hunter 3, super mario 3d land, mario kart 7, luigi's mansion, Soul hackers, project X zone, KH DDD, and M&L dream team? The 3ds has plenty of games IMHO. If you don't think so though that's your choice.

Beta

#32

Beta said:

@Reverandjames To me, it's a wallet killing machine... ;_; I mean, look at it, Animal Crossing, Fire Emblem, Kid Icarus, Pokemon X&Y, Legend of Zelda OoT and Link Between Worlds, Bravely Default, two Professor Layton games, a Professor Layton and Ace Attorney cross-over, Ace Attorney... Don't let me get started on the rest or my fingers might die X''D
And that's not even counting the eShop releases! Not to mention, it's the first Nintendo handheld to officially have a Super Smash Bros. Oh, and the fact that it still has years to come.

einstein95

#33

einstein95 said:

Personally, I'm not buying into the current generation of gaming. I'm perfectly happy with my PS2, and I've still yet to go through some of the really good games. That's not to mention all the games for PC I've legally bought, and also games for classic (legally free) consoles such as the Vectrex, that still have that re-playability that I'm just not seeing with modern games. I mean, I completed Skyward Sword, but it just lacks that appeal to play it again unike Ratchet and Clank 3 which I've completed at least 3 times.

On a final note, to all people dissing on Nolan Bushnell because he founded Atari, go watch G4TV's Icons episode on him, go read his Wikipedia article, and then come back and tell me that he's not an innovator and a man ahead of his own time.

Cohort

#34

Cohort said:

"I don't think handheld game-only devices make sense anymore"

Well Nolan, 30 million+ people tend to disagree with you, It's funny that he says this as the 2DS is soon to be released as well...

Deathgaze

#35

Deathgaze said:

@SMT4Protag
SMT4 - Nope not in my region.
Etrian Odyessy just got released a few days ago so haven't gotten around to picking it up. Too busy with Hatsune Miku Product Diva F :P
Monster Hunter - Got it on my Wii U
Mario 3D - Great game, finished it 100% when I got it. But it's just amazing, it's the same thing as every other one.
Mario 7 - Didn't like it. Has nothing on the other handheld ones, Super Circuit and DS.
Luigi's Mansion 2 - Yeah pretty good
Soul Hackers - Once again not in my region
Project X Zone and KH don't interest me. I like main series KH though on PS2.
Mario and Luigi DT - Got it just haven't gotten around to playing it.

Cia

#36

Cia said:

Just wait for the next year, when heavy hitters like Mario Kart 8 appear. After Snes, the situation with Nintendo have always been about games in certain way, and i don't see how Wii U is an exception. It may lose the console war, but so did Gamecube and that wasn't enough to put Nintend down either. The true sales of Wii U starts after we get the games! (even though it seems to be useless to repeat this obvious sentence... these doomsday predictioners are stupid and apparently have no idea about history of these things. Or foresight).

Yasume

#37

Yasume said:

The 3DS is a great system. It currently has a fine selection of games and I imagine that it will last for at least 5 more years. However, I do agree that Nintendo has to come up with something huge when the 3DS takes its last breath if it wants to compare with Apple devices.

SushiGummy

#38

SushiGummy said:

I can never really see these (very common) arguments eye-to-eye. It's like saying the comedy movie genre is dying because most movies already have jokes in them. In the end, it all comes down to personal preference, which is something that will never collectively form into one single behavior.

I understand, people have phones, and phones have games. This alone does not make a competition, though. Phones have the impressive ability to emulate tools, but they should be approached like tools of a pocket knife, rather than the tools themselves.

An iPhone can be a watch, but not the best watch. It can be a camera, but not the best camera. I hate wearing watches, so my phone will probably tell me the time for years to come. On the other hand, for someone who doesn't mind wearing watches, a watch may be the better choice for them. It allows for quicker access to the time, and is more reliable in terms of battery life; a watch's battery won't drain when your phone's does. On the other hand, I would rather use a physical notepad than the one installed on my phone, for several reasons: I hate using a touch screen keyboard, a real notepad doesn't run on battery, and I have more flexibility when taking notes (drawing pictures/symbols, for example). Other people may not need to take notes the same way I do, in which case a phone's notepad might be enough.

I have a phone with games on it. I think it's probably safe to say that most people with DSs and 3DSs have phones with games on them. I didn't just stumble into a GameStop one day and accidentally buy a 3DS. I didn't look at my phone's store later and say "Oh whoops, shouldn't have bought that 3DS." I have a 3DS for a reason, and it's the same reason I have a notepad and people still have watches. Because sometimes you need a dedicated tool, and nobody makes hardware more dedicated to gaming than Nintendo does.

bouncer0304

#39

bouncer0304 said:

I'm fine with the 3ds as is. My phone can do everything else i need and my 3ds is for gaming. I don't agree that a gaming only handheld is bad as it does exactly what it's meant to do- play games. If i want to take photos or watch a youtube video, then i go to my phone. Simple as.

SushiGummy

#40

SushiGummy said:

@Lithium It's not really fair to compare 7+ years of games being released on the DS with the 2.5 years of games on the 3DS. Especially since you've had an additional 2 years to find any DS games you may have missed during those first 7 years.

Reverandjames

#41

Reverandjames said:

@Beta Oops, forgot about KIU... 3DS is my favorite console at the moment, and that includes home consoles (I don't own a Wii U yet, 19 days to go). There is so much coming out, I feel more excited for the future of 3DS than I do Xbox One or PS4

DarkCoolEdge

#43

DarkCoolEdge said:

I'm really, really, fed up with this new wave of NintenDOOMED. It seems like a lot of people in the industry wishes its failure. Screw them.

@Lithium you speak non-sense. You can't compare the software library of an eight years old handheld with one that has been available not even a third of that time.
The DS is awesome but the hardware is full of flaws. The only upside it has over 3DS is region locking (it's a big one) but thanks to the eShop it might end up not being a big deal. In fact, Atlus DS games didn't get to Europe but 3DS' do and not only digital.

To want Nintendo leaving the hardware market is stupid. You want out the company that does things different, that is dumb.

Paperluigi

#44

Paperluigi said:

I started playing video games at a young age with a 2600 so I have respect for the ATARI brand but.....I just got my new Wii U today and I cant wait to have a go. The comment this guy makes about tablets is interesting but they still are not dedicated gaming systems. I held the Wii U gamepad in my hands a few minutes ago and it feels good for gaming. I know Im in the minority but I just think the Wii U is the perfect console for this generation.

Boxmonkey

#45

Boxmonkey said:

I just want nintendo to open a new studio that produces games of the more mature variety, games like halo or the last of us. If they did start bringing games out like that along with their family friendly IP's they wouldn't have to rely on third party's.
and we all know nintendo would do these games better than anyone else.

Beta

#46

Beta said:

@Reverandjames And we still have yet to know what its future holds. The future of the 3DS is so bright I will need sunglasses later XD

einstein95

#47

einstein95 said:

Let's compare some numbers, shall we?
Let's take the total number of units currently sold in total for each console, then divide it by the total length of its lifespan so far. Here are the results (I've added the amount of complete months do far in this year as well), but take them with a grain of salt:
Atari 2600 [1978-1992] = 1.97 million units per year.
Nintendo 3DS [2011-?] = 19.86 mill units/year
Nintendo DS [2005-2012?] = 22.11 mill units/year
Game Boy [1989-2003] = 8.48 mill units/year
Wii U [2012-?] = 1.98 mill units/year
Wii [2006-?] = 13.06 mill units/year

So you compare the numbers, and it actually looks like Nintendo's doing quite well despite being "past it's glory years".

LavaTwilight

#49

LavaTwilight said:

I have all respect for the man but there's something that he and these so-called experts don't seem to understand. Maybe because they're only looking at data and aren't thinking 'outside the box' like Nintendo do.

What they're missing is that I-phone games and the majority of tablet games will not satisfy the hungry gamer. At all. The people who are satisfied with them, won't go out to buy consoles and those who aren't satisfied with them are the ones who were buying the consoles anyway. These MiNOR-games, as I call them, can only help bring people to dedicated games consoles, not detract others from them.

Einherjar

#51

Einherjar said:

Yeah, game only handhelds are pretty outdated and its obvious that noone wants them anymore. Just look at the Vita and its "almost smartphone like" social network capabilitys, its 3G capabilitys, the "on the go" internetbrowsing. This device is SO much better and SO much more popular that...pretty much no one has one.
Compare sales against the 3DS and you have your answer regarding game only handhelds.
Its certainly nice to have a pocket sice device that can do pretty much everything. But our streets here in germany are flooded with people running around, only starring at their smartphones, A group of friends sitting in a restaurant = everyone stares at their phones. Cinema = everyone stares at their phones, even when the film is running. Its almost like cancer to society. Face to face conversations are pretty much dead, everything works over social networks, even if people are right next to each other.
So whats the use of these features on a gaming device ? You get this thing to play something and not use it 24/7 for social networking. Its a much more heartwarming scene to see a bunch of friends on the train, sitting right next to each other, playing mario kart on their 3DS having a great time than the same group just silently starring at their phones using instant messengers or social networks to talk to everyone but their friends right next to them.
Having a device that only plays games like it should can connect people. You dot get distracted and can concentrate on the one thing that is important at the moment: having a blast with your friends.
And when it comes to smartphone minigames, i would say the exact same thing as @LavaTwilight ;)

MundaneName

#52

MundaneName said:

Fanboys galore in the comments.

While ironic that somebody who ran Atari has something to say about irrelevance, it should be remembered that Atari WAS successful, so his insight is still valid.
He also has a point. Nintendo's Wii U is in an unfortunate position, people are confused by the Nintendo range (the 2DS isn't making Nintendo's life any easier either) and the handheld market is being hit heavy by smartphones and tablets that are able to run comparable (sometimes better) games.

He doesn't seem to be basing his opinions on any fact though. He says 'I think' way too much.

sadsack777

#54

sadsack777 said:

Where Failed Consoles Went Wrong Instead of Right The Jaguar was the last system Atari ever launched. I still can’t understand how a great game company like Atari got blown of the console market. In this review I didn’t gave you the full specs or how the system works but just my honest opinion and a bit of history on the Jaguar. The Jaguar was the last nail in the coffin of Atari. Two years after this disaster the company was sold several times and is now owned by Hasbro Interactive who had renamed themselves “Atari Games”. So the name will live on! the name of the company who really misjudged that bits are not everything ;-)

einstein95

#55

einstein95 said:

@sadsack777 Atari basically tried to do what game companies today are doing: they made consoles from computers, and not to mention focusing on the tech specs. Just look at the Atari 5200, it was basically an Atari 400/800 without the floppy drive! Bringing up what you've mentioned, the Jaguar, they advertised it focusing on what it can/could do, and not focusing on showing gamers what it could do via the games themselves.
It's sad though that what is Atari now, is but a hollow corpse that lives by name alone. After all, the parent company, Atari S.A was once Infogrames. Hold on, I've got a text document here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uWOcpEgynyt7x_O79As-Do7wtw455aGvX78T500lFEs/edit

Pahvi

#57

Pahvi said:

I see the point Mr Bushnell is making. Personally, I see no reason for me to waste money on a handheld console, since I could play also on my iOS and Android devices. Obviously they'd be different games, but that doesn't mean the end effect is worse. Lugging unnecessary gear with me (=a gaming console if I can kill time just as fine with my smartphone) doesn't make sense to me.

Now, as some on this thread have pointed out, there are quite few millions who appear to disagree on this. The thing is, I don't think I'm the only one to think like this either.

@einstein95: About the number of sold consoles per year -list... comparing games console sales from the late-70s to those of this decade? That's like comparing the sales of Apple Newton with iPad, Asus Nexus 7 and Microsoft Surface.

Finally... I have no problems with Mr Bushnell saying "I think" repeatedly. I call that denoting personal opinions and thoughts.

Path to irrelevance... Atari went that way. Nokia too. Sega avoided that just by changing into a software house, I think. Why couldn't it happen with Nintendo as well? Pride goes before the fall.

sadsack777

#58

sadsack777 said:

In spite of - or perhaps thanks to - this new approach, the NES reversed the dwindling fortunes of the US console market, leading to a Japanese dominance that would last for more than a decade. Most importantly, Nintendo learned from Atari’s mistakes, and carefully vetted the number of games that third-party developers could release for its system each year - hence those familiar “Official Nintendo” seals prominently displayed on videogame boxes. It was an approach that Nintendo’s rivals also adopted in the years after, from Sega to Sony and Microsoft.

Read more: http://www.denofgeek.com/games/24531/the-1983-videogame-crash-what-went-wrong-and-could-it-happen-again#ixzz2eCVvIWio

MrGawain

#59

MrGawain said:

After seeing the picture of him, I've come to the conclusion that the real difference between American and Japanese game producers is the Japanese wear ties.

Emblem

#60

Emblem said:

Nonsense I love my 3DS and my Nexus 7, they play totally different types of games and both have other uses other than gaming. Some games work better with touch screen but most need physical buttons. plus aslong as Nintendo keeps its IPS exclusive I'll be picking up their handhelds.

sadsack777

#61

sadsack777 said:

With the arrival of new consoles, such as the Ouya and Valve's Steam Box, and suggestions that Apple might join the fray soon, the market could soon become as crowded as it did 30 years ago. As history has proven, a glut of competing games and devices could spell disaster for some recognisable brands.

einstein95

#63

einstein95 said:

@Kadunta I see your view on that, and as I said, grain of salt. I was merely comparing consoles that were successful in their time. Oh, by the way, I couldn't find any data for the Newton, but I did compare the 2012 Nexus 7 with Surface and iPad. Remember, these are averages based on what data I could find:

Nexus 7 (2012): 7 mill units/year
Surface: 3.6 mill units/year
iPad: 40 mill units/year

Reverandjames

#64

Reverandjames said:

@MundaneName Well we are on a website called 'Nintendolife' right now. I think people on here are pretty fond of Nintendo.

People who are confused by the Nintendo range clearly only bought a Wii because they played it at a dinner party that one time and thought: "Oooh, I want one of them!" and then never used it. It's not hard to understand what a console is if you actually read in to it a little bit and you are a legitimate gamer.

fredcaster

#66

fredcaster said:

@Fazermint "Nintendo always had a soft spot for young people - they sort of did the 12-and-under pretty well, and the other guys did the 12-and-over."
Utter nonsense. This statement is not based on actual facts. I'm pretty sure half (or more) of Nintendo owners are 12+

Be careful when criticizing a comment for not being based on actual facts and then giving an opinion which isn't based on actual facts.

MrGawain

#67

MrGawain said:

2 more points:

A. Nintendo is very good at watching its costs. This is why they continue to post profits. They don't print 5 million copies of a game they won't sell.

B. If its true mobile phones and iPads are going to take away ALL handheld games sales (they will admittedly some) because they can do a bad copy of a handheld gaming experience, then the same can be said for Cameras, Calculators, Watches, Books, CD players, DVD players, and keyrings that make fart noises. It's true they are eating into the market, but they will never COMPLETELY replace these purpose built devices and media. At least not for some time yet.

Kirk

#68

Kirk said:

I don't think Nintendo is on the path to becoming irrelevant as a company in general but maybe as a serious competitor in the modern video game industry.

I think it's slowly turning into more of a Hasbro/Mattel/Tiger-Electronics type company that's more about kids/family entertainment products and experiences than a cutting edge multi-media and video game entertainment company.

That's not necessarily a bad thing for Nintendo or in terms of general business but I don't think it's great for people like me who grew up with Nintendo and always thought of them as a cutting edge video game entertainment company. I expected them to mature very much in line with the other players in the video games industry, who are all slowly moving further and further into general entertainment media along with really maturing the video game medium.

Modern mainstream entertainment consoles really do need to be more than simple toy like video game devices with a quirky gimmick if they hope to stay relevant in that space in my opinion...

Reverandjames

#70

Reverandjames said:

@Kadunta "Path to irrelevance... Atari went that way. Nokia too. Sega avoided that just by changing into a software house, I think. Why couldn't it happen with Nintendo as well? Pride goes before the fall".

I understand your point there, but going from producing one of the best selling consoles of all time, and introducing casual gaming to people who never would have picked up a controller to having one console which isn't performing very well at the moment does not warrant irrelevancy in my opinion. Sega had the Sega CD, 32X, Saturn and Dreamcast before they realized it was time to pull out of the console game. Nintendo had the 3D boy and bounced back, Gamecube, and bounced back, and will bounce back from the Wii U again.

The amount of sales from the 3DS shows that there is till a dedicated fan base out there, and the casual gamers have just moved on to candy crush saga.

sadsack777

#72

sadsack777 said:

and I would just like to say I am not just a Nintendo fanboy iam a retro games fanboy not into sony or xbox there still in nappys yet

Kirk

#73

Kirk said:

...If you don't believe me then just check out this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

At 3:32 there's some Tiger Electronic handhelds that resemble the new 2DS so closely, albeit with a single screen, that it's not even funny.

I could seriously see Nintendo going more and more in this general direction but just with much better quality handheld products in general.

Anclation

#74

Anclation said:

Stop giving these morons bashing Nintendo attention, that's the one thing they want.

BraveBold5

#75

BraveBold5 said:

@Jono97
Nintendo already have something that people will want to have again in a future handheld console
Nintendo games
Mario2D/3D, Zelda, Mario Kart, Pokemon, SSB, etc are some of the best selling games You will see them only on Nintendo consoles This is the reason why millions of people buy the 3Ds

8bitforever

#78

8bitforever said:

Here is truth. Gaming on a tablet or phone is big but is not the same as playing in a dedicated game system. Games on Android and iOS lack physical controls, which hurt them, and nowadays they are all free to play with tons of in app purchases. The mobile market is making itself irrelevant by going down this path. When I first bought an iPod a few years back this wasn't the case and they had a real chance at challenging Nintendo, etc., but not anymore. Most of their releases are now free to play and don't attract hardcore gamers. There will always be a place for a Nintendo handheld because the mobile market cannot get their crap together. Too many hands in that pot. Unless Apple makes a controller and then pushes it, there will never be a real threat.

Zael

#79

Zael said:

I admit that nintendo has made a mistake with the gamepad and the hardware because nowadays a console must be at 360 °, so we will lose something like final fantasy 15, kh3, metal gear etc. that could have been on nintendo simply making an hardware similar to the others, adding all the nintendo ip I think nintendo could have won this gen. But I think that, in the next next gen, graphic will became a secondary aspect and probably all third parties will work on nintendo console again
I would have preferred a console like the gamecube instead of wii u.
About handhelds I think nolan is right, so I think that nintendo should concentrate on home console, not handhelds, becaus home consoles have always something more than smartphone, more confortable etc, so it is better to challenge sony and microsoft on that stage, as they did in the past.
The wii u gamepad is uncomfortable like an handheld but it isn't an handheld.
You have to charge the battery every time, is weight, etc
I think nintendo should listen to players and change something
although this i prefer the wii u to the other consoles fo the games, but I feel a little frustrated when I think at this hardware and how it could have been

CaveDweller

#80

CaveDweller said:

@Lithium I'm sorry, what? You think Nintendo have become stagnant and refuse to move with the times yet you yourself "don't support digital distribution" which will, without a doubt, eventually replace physical games altogether. Maybe not any time soon, but it's something that will definitely happen.

So looking past all your heavily opinionated points (remember that just because you some 3DS games "don't interest" you doesn't mean they don't hugely interest others) aren't you being more than a tad hypocritical..?

Guest1000000000

#81

Guest1000000000 said:

"Path of irrelevance"?

Like "Atari Corporation" had suffered after the "North American video game crash of 1983"?

LOL

Hypocrisy at its finest.

cfgk24

#82

cfgk24 said:

The quote says 'Could be' that means he doesn't know. They also 'could be' on the 'PATH TO HANDHELD DOMINATION'
I would like him to answer this question:

'Why do I love my 3DS but my tablet sits there unused?'

Zael

#85

Zael said:

ok people but we have to be realistic
ds sold about 150 mln
gameboy about 120 mln
3ds 30 mln after 3 years
I think that this market is changing, is useles to joke ourself
vita did worse, so this is the prof that the handheld console are becoming secondary

Zael

#88

Zael said:

After I have had a nes, snes n64, and gamecube, I can recognize that the wii u is the worst console ever made by nintendo. And sales punish nintendo for this

Zael

#90

Zael said:

Sometimes I don't understand nintendo because they make consoles without listening fans and players, but after this they produce games like mario,zelda to support player desires (and there is a lack of new ip) so they search innovation in hardware but not in games. I think it is better to have new games on standard hardware that the opposite

ScorpionMG

#91

ScorpionMG said:

@Zael i have to disagree with you. Wii U is actuall a good piece of machine, Just because you dont own it and you only see sales, doesnt mean it's not good.

ScorpionMG

#93

ScorpionMG said:

@Zael Nintendo Doesnt want to be like Microsoft and Sony, They Try New things every time and try to be as much affordable for the consumer. Look at their games (pikmin and w101 for 43 euros, I won't see xbox one and ps4 games at that price.

Zael

#95

Zael said:

You have to understand that today zelda and mario are grat games and triple a production because of fan support and sales. Sell only 3mln of wii u means to have worse game in the future, so it is our interest to have a nintendo console that sells well. If this mean have a standard hardware then let's make a standard hardware, they have to stop with these strange hardwares

Zael

#96

Zael said:

@ScorpionMG
I know that nintendo games are better but I want to play also final fantasy, metal gear, street fighter, dead or alive castlevania etc

Snkfiend

#97

Snkfiend said:

ScorpionMG you right Nintendo had a "NEW" IP and that was Wonderful 101 and guess what the majority from the Nintendo fanbase didn't even support or bought the game over stupid idiotic excuses.

Spoony_Tech

#98

Spoony_Tech said:

@Zael Hardware doesn't matter. Only the games played on that hardware. Nintendo has always tried to have fun games to play which makes them relevant. The other system are just trying to look more realistic and that can be fun but the game play is not quite the same!

Zael

#99

Zael said:

having a closed hardware has brought nintendo to isolation, this is bad also for nintendo players. If they sold less it means that those strange hardwares don't bring anything good

Zael

#100

Zael said:

@Spoony_Tech
if hardware doesn't matter then why they make strange hardwares? the game pad has repelled many costumers because two screens are useless and confusing

Zael

#101

Zael said:

If hardware doesn't matter then make confortable hardwares to attract everyone

Snkfiend

#102

Snkfiend said:

@Spoony_Tech I agree but for who because my opinion is that I think nintendo is sticking with only their fanbase rather the other core gamers that wants other games rather the same. Zael is stating he wants other titles rather than just nintendo titles and thats fine for him so whats wrong playing other games on other consoles and PC?

Reala

#103

Reala said:

Playing those other games on other consoles and PC is fines if you own them already, if not it means buying more hardware, if wii u can't attract enough of those titles then they could potentially be limiting their audience quite a bit, personally I'm holding off getting a wii u until I see whether the 3rd party situation improves, I'm only buying one console next gen not personally going multi platform.

Zael

#104

Zael said:

@Snkfiend The fact is that I don't want to pay other 400 euros for another console,
As me, many other players think they don't want to miss important games and don't want to pay other 300 for a wii u.
Every one makes his choice but nintendo asks every time to give up games like final fantasy etc so at this round many people decided to not buy 2 consoles and wii u is collapsing because has the better games ip but they are only few, and for 7 years those games aren't enough
third parties are important to cover dead times

Spoony_Tech

#105

Spoony_Tech said:

@Snkfiend Nintendo has tried the other games approach at launch and either other commpanies failed to deliver a good port or no one really cared. For the last 10- 15 years Nintendo's 3rd party support has gone down for the simple fact that a lot of other games can't compete with their own Brands. Its what hurts 3rd party sales on Nintendo systems.

Zael

#106

Zael said:

@Spoony_Tech It's true, but if they made pc based hardwares probably 3d parties could port their games with few money. This gives a wider choice to the player and low risks to the 3d parties which can bear low sales because the game is the same
But I think that games like final fantasy or mg would sell good also on nintendo, if we talk of ninja gaiden we know that the porting was bad and ng3 was a bad game. But I think that good games would sell

TheLohoped

#107

TheLohoped said:

@Guest1000000000 Nolan Bushnell has nothing to do with death of Atari Inc. in 1983. He was fired by Atari's owner company back in 1978 due to different plans for the company's future. Bushnell is only responsible for very successful Pong and super successful Atari VCS (also known as 2600). Bushnell is in no way a hypocrite.

Zael

#108

Zael said:

about the other multi games, consider that there is a base of 70 mln of xbox and 70 mln of ps3 so it was sure that an old gen hardware had sold bad for games like call of duty and assassin creed

Snkfiend

#109

Snkfiend said:

@Spoony_Tech I know but its Nintendo that has to do something about that we gamers cannot keep sweeping the floor and having tantrums because of their problems and these immature attacks on nintendo but blaming on the other companies. We know that the Big N has the best exclusives but for a person like me that grew up on sega and nintendo I want something more and I won't get shafted to one console like other people do to themselves.

Spoony_Tech

#110

Spoony_Tech said:

@Zael I personally would love to play FF on a Nintendo system! Unfortunately many would not. Its been known for years to get nintendo to play nintendo games and get another system to play anything else. If those games sold well on nintendo systems then they would bee there but they don't.

I look at my 3ds game and have about 30 retail right now. Of those 30 about 20 are 3rd party. I'm in the minority here as most people have it the other way around. If some people have say 5 games for their 3ds then I would guess all 5 are nintendo made.

2Sang

#111

2Sang said:

@einstein95 That's because video games were more expensive relatively back then and they weren't anywhere near the mainstream. The only ones you listed that relatively did better was the wii and ds.

SpookyMeths

#114

SpookyMeths said:

"That's nice, dear."
-32 million 3DS owners

It is necessary to say "Atari founder Nolan Bushnell," because he's too irrelevant to be known by his name alone.

Jazzer94

#115

Jazzer94 said:

I think Nintendo has edged slightly towards being irrelevant as they seem to be reluctant to 1) Produce new IP for their consoles and 2) Mix up the IP's they use on their console other then Mario, Zelda, Metroid and Donkey Kong (side note I like all these franchises).

kurtasbestos

#116

kurtasbestos said:

A handheld device that only plays games is pretty much the only handheld device I'm interested in. Also, I'm 32 now, yet I have a soft spot for Nintendo now much more than I did when I was 12.

AllCreation

#117

AllCreation said:

I'm Soo sick of the Handheld vs Smart Phone/Tablet debate. The portability, the connectivity, the experience, the quality, the GAMES... ITS NOT THE SAME. Smart Phone games are noticeably lacking, tablets can be incredibly expensive (i paid well over $700 for my Ipad) and their games are generally of lower quality as well.

The fact of the matter is that If the handheld market was in such dire straits then the 3DS wouldn't be the number on selling console in the world right now. And whats more, is that the bulk of the sales for both the 3DS and Vita are coming from Japan who have much more advanced Smart Phones and Tablets available to them than we have here in the States.

Zael

#119

Zael said:

@Spoony_Tech
well but on nes and snes third party like square, capcom konami sold very well, in fact their ip born there. So this story of nintendo only for nintendo is a degeneration, and it's nintendo fault. They begin to not support well 3d parties with n64, an hardware without cd when psx and saturn had. Nintendo hardware politc must change, I know they can recover if change their wrong concept of hardware, and final fantasy can sell well on nintendo console if it is the real final fantasy, not crystal chronicles
if they continue to bring only trash games like crystal chronicles, castlevania judgment resident evil fps then it is clear that those ip will not sell on a nintendo cosnole

Snkfiend

#120

Snkfiend said:

@Zael You got to understand some people don't want new joy in gaming maybe or just wants to stick to one console/company all they life. I myself cannot do that because I want something new in gaming as well want to play all the games put to the table from every console/PC.

Zael

#121

Zael said:

@Snkfiend Ok but I have the sensation that the market is changing
the nes generation now is about 30 year old and probably likes mario and zelda the same way but want to play also adult strong content. The new generation of players born in a situation where nintendo is considered a secondary console and watch only graphic because want to challenge friends at the game "my console is better".
In this situation nintendo risks to lose much ground, and it is hard to recover
probably that kind of people you refer doesn't exist anymore
If they want to restart to be competitive they have to make a competitive console in terms of hardware and joypad, next attract 3d parties. With their ip they can have a plus to convince people to buy the nintendo so they can play every type of game

Jono97

#122

Jono97 said:

@BraveBold5 I know I do not represent the mass population.. But I didn't buy my 3ds for any of the exclusives (but for the 3d). Hence, that's why I don't own a WiiU. Exclusives alone cannot drive sales. Although some of my friends do own a 3ds mainly for the exclusives, none of them own a WiiU. Why not? They don't see anything on the WiiU that appeals to them.

Zael

#123

Zael said:

@Jono97 And in effect the 3ds damages also the wii u sales because many people, in the ds wii gen, has understood that the handheld gives them the games a wii doesn't.
I have played castlevania on ds and not on wii, dead or alive and sf4 on 3ds and not on wii, so people start to buy only the 3ds because knows that the home console has a poor offer of games (even if of quality)

DarkNinja9

#124

DarkNinja9 said:

so i didnt know who this guy was till now but i find it odd how hes irrelevant and cuz of that he wants some attention by saying something else is irrelevant xD like wtf?

but meh i dont rly care either way o.o

Zael

#125

Zael said:

In a situation where tablet and smartphones destroy the handheld market, nintendo handhed destroy nintendo home console sales (in coop with ps3 and x360). This because people see that the handheld gives them more games than home console (see the ds where there was final fantasy 3 4, nino kuni, dragon quest, castlevania etc.)

Zael

#127

Zael said:

so how can a console that is considered secondary also by nintendo sell well?

SammyOfMobius

#128

SammyOfMobius said:

Well obviously the 3DS is selling well, and is one of the best handhelds of all-time, so it does make sense truly. On a handheld gaming device, you find a gaming experience that can't be captured on any smartphone or tablet out there. That's what handheld gaming platforms are for. And honestly, what does this guy know about saving a console brand? I don't see Atari making consoles anymore. :|

Zael

#129

Zael said:

I repeat that the ds sold 150 mln of device, the 3ds only 33 in 3 years, I think that the 3ds sales are good but nintendo is losing ground because of tablet and smartphona, nolan is right

Windy

#131

Windy said:

I was a big fan of Atari back in the day. But I gotta say, Nolan, "Your Irrevellant!" You guys had a good thing and blew it. I had even hoped the Atari Jaguar would bring back Atari. Worst system release in the history of gaming.

Snkfiend

#132

Snkfiend said:

@Zael I know I still play my NES/SNES etc in this time of need sometimes and to see how amazing they games was then and see now and It is sad to see how they turned out nowadays but alas change isn't enough if Nintendo wants to get their core gamers back to the platform.

triforcepower73

#134

triforcepower73 said:

Yeah I have to agree. Having $10 billion in the bank and a portable system that is selling way better than the home consoles and other portable devices is a pretty tough situation.

b23cdq

#135

b23cdq said:

I love my iPad, I use it all the time. I have GTA3 on it. I hardly play GTA3, though, because it sucks to play it without a controller. Hopefully this game will support controllers when iOS comes.

But even if the controller issue is fixed, the game is over a decade old. Tablets and smartphones might take over gaming when we they get the same games as the home consoles, at the same quality. Until then:

haha no.

Musterd

#137

Musterd said:

So what he's saying is that Nintendo is doomed because they're good with the 12 and under market? Are kids 12 and under going extinct or something?

Savino

#138

Savino said:

@Musterd No, Kids under 12 are playing Ipad and Iphones more than dedicated handhelds! I have two kids under 12, one 3ds, two vitas and two ipads, guess which my kids play the most?!
Ipad!

This guy could be a douche, but his right in his point...kids are growing not knowing nintendo anymore and it is the most important advantage that nintendo had!

Hell, my kids loves rayman way more than that guy with a red hat and a wierd mustache!

Ralizah

#139

Ralizah said:

@Savino
So what? My nephew plays with his 3DS more than any of his other devices. I suppose that means Apple is on the way to irrelevance with the ipad, right?

The 3DS is reminding people who have been spewing this sort of nonsense that there is still a place in this world for dedicated gaming devices.

SKTTR

#141

SKTTR said:

Gamers want the best games, period. There's no need for movie playback, phones, cameras in a console when it has some of the best games. But a huge growing part of the market wants a multimedia Switzer pocketknife console that can do anything.

All will merge anyway one day. But I'm glad to live in times when there are still consoles being made first and foremost for quality games.

If Nintendo could modify and upgrade the 3DS into a Nintendo brand smartphone, I think that will be exciting times for the whole mobile gaming and smartphone market.

Cohort

#142

Cohort said:

If it were the "Atari Wii U", they would be burying billions of games in the desert by now. he's probably still bitter over the tetris thing...

Ren

#143

Ren said:

sheesh, I guess it's articles like this that help keep the rabid fans rabid.
I love my 3DS and I'll hold on to it for a long time but I agree with him completely and I fear for Nintendo; I also wish they would wise up and move to software only.
It seems people are talking from inside a bubble here, he's talking about the larger market in general and 'relevance' not 'are they cool games or not'. The WiiU is clearly struggling and the handheld market has been so fractured that if Nintendo gets lazy with it mobile games are going to sneak up fast. He's doing what Nintendo has failed to and... Thinking about the future!
Remember that unique thing that mobiles do? they make calls, and they check weather, and email, and browse properly, and every other imaginable 'app' function. The market is massive even WITHOUT games and the games are good enough for MOST people who have one, and becoming good enough for many casual/ adult gamers. If you have to make a choice about an expensive full featured device (beyond games) you will get a phone everytime if you're an adult; This is not something to be ignored. But then who ever thought about the real world here? We just want Pokemon!

Bulbousaur

#144

Bulbousaur said:

@HugoSmits If he left in 1978, then he hasn't been a major part of video games in over 35 years. He is completely out of touch with gaming and why anyone is listening to him I have no idea.

Savino

#145

Savino said:

@Ralizah I am talking not only about my kids, but all the kids that they know! I see less and less kids playing with handhelds and more with idevices!
Nolan is rigth, kids want games, youtube, social features, not only a device who just play games. The 3ds is probably the last dedicated handheld of history... Nintendo will release some sort of tablet in the future, you can bet that... And if animal crossing can be used as reference, they already planning it.

moroboshi

#146

moroboshi said:

Markets can change of course, the Wii proved that, but assuming the current trend continues, then Bushnell is correct. The 3DS is selling well enough, but it's sales are dwarfed by those of the iPod Touch, iPhone, and Android devices. You need only look at the sales of big mobile games to see where portable gaming is headed.

As for the Wii U, it's a dead system. There really is nothing that can save it now. Even if Nintendo ditched the tablet and slashed the price it wouldn't make any difference. It's simply too little too late, and NIntendo should "do a Sega" and kill it before they lose too much money. They could make a fortune developing for other devices.

LDXD

#147

LDXD said:

@BillyCupid lmao
@ everyone Nintendo will become irrelevant when they stop making software and I don't see that happening any time soon

LDXD

#148

LDXD said:

I'm slowly starting to think every other developer may be irrelevant to me because I'm getting sick of playing these broken azz games yeah I'm talking to you Rome 2 total war!!

Buduski

#149

Buduski said:

Nintendo is doomed thats why I'm hyped for the next gen Atari HD console its gonna be awesome -.-

HugoSmits

#150

HugoSmits said:

@Bulby him leaving Atari doesn't mean he left the gaming industry. He is currently founder and CEO of BrainRush which makes educational games. He still follows and watches all the trends and speaks on major computer conferences.

Zael

#152

Zael said:

The problem is that nintendo launches assassin's creed 3,call of duty bo2, darksider 2, tekken tag 2, batman ac, when there are 170mln ps3/xbox360 fan base that can play those games on the console they already have. Moreover the conversions are poor.
Nintendo should have launched a true next gen to convince people to pass from ps3 x360 to them. Because people buy a new console every gen and the only way to catch that train is to have a competitive hardware. Now wii u is supported only by ubisoft and activision (ea and namco have given up), but when the true nex gen will start they will not be able anymore to do porting.
So we will play only nintendo games
there are third parties like platinum but nintendo can finance only a couple of games for year and, considering the sales of wond 101 (which I have bought), I think that also those collaborations will drop.
What will happen after bayonetta 2 and x? we'll have to wait other six months to see a game? On other consoles they will proceed regularly with the next gen and announcements.
Someone could say that wii made the same thing and sold 100 mln, but the gamepad isn't the wii mote and 2013 isn't 2006. This is a much more competitive market and all casual gamers, who bought the wii for the balance, already have a balance. They don't care about games, in fact xenoblade sold only 1 mln on 100 mln wii
we have to be realistic, nintendo has made a great mistake.
Many people has bought 2 consoles in the old gen because nintendo could not support third parties. Now it is clear that people don't want to buy 2 consoles, the game pad isn't so innovative because is useless, so there is no reason to buy a wii u when you have a ps3 or a xbox with bayonetta 1
Nintendo is too late this time
About the gamepad I say that when I play I watch only one screen for time, because I have not 4 eyes, so it is useless to have two screen when you have only 2 eyes
Also you have to recharge every 3 hours, so there are only problems and poor beneficts
With the same price people buy a ps4, with much more confort plays the next gen.

AllCreation

#154

AllCreation said:

@Ren A smart phone is first and foremost a PHONE, all other features are secondary and unnecessary. Very few people especially ADULTS place emphasis on the gaming abilities of their phone before they make a purchase. Even the camera is given precedence in that regard. All of the major Phones that have tried to heavily incorporate gaming as a feature have failed horribly. Gizmondo, N-Gage, Xperia... ETC.. AS i previously Stated:

"I'm Soo sick of the Handheld vs Smart Phone/Tablet debate. The portability, the connectivity, the experience, the quality, the GAMES... ITS NOT THE SAME. Smart Phone games are noticeably lacking, tablets can be incredibly expensive (i paid well over $700 for my Ipad) and their games are generally of lower quality as well.

The fact of the matter is that If the handheld market was in such dire straits then the 3DS wouldn't be the number on selling console in the world right now. And whats more, is that the bulk of the sales for both the 3DS and Vita are coming from Japan who have much more advanced Smart Phones and Tablets available to them than we have here in the States."

Zael

#155

Zael said:

the fact is that nowadays the smartphone is trendy, also boys, when go out, take with them the smartphone and possibily play games on street. On the other hand many people buy a 3ds to play at home becayse the nintendo home console lack of games, the result is that you don't sell wii u and at the same time the handheld is a smartphone

Zael

#156

Zael said:

nintendo isn't able to read the market and what player want.
Players want a powerful and complete console for home, to play also pro games ike sf4, to live the current gen well. The hand held market was strong in 80 because the technology was poor, now you have a screen also on your watch and can play zelda and mario clones on a smartphone.
There is less need of portability

AllCreation

#157

AllCreation said:

Besides being vastly more expensive, Smart Phones and Tablet are also Infinitely more fragile than Nintendo products. No Parent in their right mind wouldn't choose the latter.

KingofSaiyans

#159

KingofSaiyans said:

"I don't think handheld game-only devices make sense anymore, not when you have an iPod or an Android microtablet"??? Tell that to the 4 million plus people who bought animal crossing new leaf. Senile old man.

LDXD

#160

LDXD said:

@Ren none of that stuff is unique making a phone call has been around for a long time and I sure as hell don't want to be interrupted by a phone call while playing my games this is another reason phone games are as shallow as they are and Nintendo better not ever go that route, once you start adding secondary features the primary feature starts to suffer, I still say my old flip phone made better quality phone calls than any smart phone I've had and didn't shatter like glass when dropped

SheldonRandoms

#161

SheldonRandoms said:

Using an ipod swipe your fingers around to fling birds or barley pull of that fighting game move appeals to people I guess, but enough to make the 3DS/2DS irrelevant, nope.

CrabGats

#164

CrabGats said:

Does anyone even check how well the 3DS is selling before making arguments like this? I think their handheld division is going to keep them alive for a good long time!

WesCash

#165

WesCash said:

I think an important distinction needs to be made.

Nintendo hardware is unquestionably close to irrelevance.

Nintendo software is just as relevant as it ever was.

PokemonManiac

#166

PokemonManiac said:

I hate when people consider tables and phones part of portable gaming. To me there is home console gaming, portable gaming and then mobile is phones and tablets

Ren

#167

Ren said:

this is hardly someone "we've never heard of" Nintendo would still be making card games if not for this guy. Thats like saying a site about politics has no place for stories about Abe Lincoln.

@AllCreation and @LDXD no one ever said mobile games "are the same" they are certainly not, Nintendo is far away the best with portables and maybe overall at games. They are NOT the best at understanding what their potential consumers want. The games are great and Nintendo has countless years left of life. The machines, like lots of other ones, are starting to be too single purpose for the market today.
It's only that good games are even possible on mobiles that make them a big threat. There are some good games despite the horrible interface and upcoming OS's are addressing it. To someone who is a light tech consumer or has be coaxed into a puchase of a does-it-all phone one that plays a few time-passing games is more than enough. You have to get your head out of gaming land and think about all the things a phone does so much better than a Nintendo. If you have all this and are on the fence about getting a game machine with lots of proprietary junk there isn't even a choice to make. Every single person I know has a smartphone/tablet, because they don't care about gaming but they can do a little if they want and thats what they give to the young kids because it's enough for them.
Lots of them also have DS's but they are parallel markets right now and generally an ipad does so much more. It's not 'over' for Nintendo but they aren't taking the competition seriously and it's dangerous. It is absolutely a real issue, the only thin holding it back mobiles is the interface and when that is more flexible than it will be direct competition with a bigger install base than any platform on earth.

Ralizah

#168

Ralizah said:

@Savino
See, this is what I don't understand. The 3DS has become one of the best-selling Nintendo handhelds of all time. How does "I see children playing with phones" somehow become "The 3ds is probably the last dedicated handheld of history?" At what point does that mental leap happen?

Captain_Toad

#170

Captain_Toad said:

Heh, if the words of the Atari man follow through. Then the rest of gaming could potentually be doomed.

LDXD

#171

LDXD said:

@Ren I don't want to get my head out of gaming because that's what I do its prob my #1 hobby, I rather Nintendo do what they do and do it great than do what a phone or iPad does a bunch off things some good some pointless. Fact is no mater what happens Nintendo will always find their niche like they've been doing since the 64 and it doesn't bother me one bit I sure don't want them to copy everyone else I'm glad they come up with something different to put on the market and I would like to think most fans feel the same way

AllCreation

#173

AllCreation said:

@Ren you're completely ignoring the droves of people called "GAMERS" who actually buy the handhelds TO PLAY GAMES. OF COURSE if you are a "light tech consumer" you're going to choose a Smart Phone over a 3DS but THIS IS NOT NINTEDO'S TARGET AUDIENCE.. Contrary to what you may think there are people who DO "Care About gaming" and that would be the over 30,000,000 people wise enough to realize that a Smart Phone is no comparison to a Nintedno handled that focuses solely on Games and the Gaming Experience. You don't seem to be able to understand that there are two completely different and distinct markets at play here But please believe me when i tell you THERE ARE. Your argument is literally equivocal to implying that Home Consoles are going to become Obsolete because PCs are so Advanced now.

shinokami

#174

shinokami said:

This guy has obviously never touched a 3DS. I use my 3DS for more than gaming, and as far as I know, the machine has music, internet browser, netflix and a bunch of other apps for practical use. The Vita is exactly the same thing. This guy should get his facts straight before rampaging on a device.

Shambo

#175

Shambo said:

Gaming without buttons won't ever make sense. Ever. So all the 'who's he, who is so wise in the ways of saving companies of becoming irrelevant' jokes and puns aside, he still has not a single solid point.
Nintendo does GAMING right, offering gamers and developers willing to experiment a great platform, where the others (hardware-, and unwilling to experiment software developers) are losing it completely...
This is of course just my opinion.

eza

#176

eza said:

@zeal you're just repeating the same thing, I think we get it now. What you want is called a 'PC' - I've heard that Sony and Microsoft are about to release some locked-down PCs that you might be interested in ;-)

personally, I'm not a fan of multifunction devices: I prefer to use a proper camera, a proper handheld games console, I have a proper watch, and I find Nintendo make proper home games consoles. I have a PC for everything else, like media, games with pretty graphics, simulation games, and ...work.

Sure, if I wanted a half-arsed attempt at doing everything then I'd have an iphone, ipad, xbox, and playstation. But I want the best of all worlds because I'm greedy like that, so I have a Canon camera, Nintendo games consoles, a convertible ultrabook instead of a tablet, and a PC.

penny arcade nicely summed up both sides of the mobile games argument in this comic: http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/08/01

mostro328

#177

mostro328 said:

I don't get and it really pisses me off when people say I can not wait until Nintendo becomes software only can you tell me WTF is the point....if you want to play Nintendo first party titles so badly go support the so called path to irrelevance consoles like umm let me see the WiiU and 3DS

BraveBold5

#178

BraveBold5 said:

@Jono97 IMO most of the people didn't buy the 3Ds due to the 3D effect They bought it because of the games it has
Wii U was lacking in games till now Games that can convince people to jump to other platform The so famous system sellers The more system sellers a console has, the more it will sell
We can say for example that Fifa will be a system seller for MS and Sony since it will be on their platforms and it will not be (at least for now) on Wii U
Wii U has little 3rd party support In fact, it even had a lack of 1st party support till now So, IMO the problem is always the games
Everyone was saying that 3Ds couldn't fight with tablets, android, etc and that vita was going to kill her for sure Now, just see where 3Ds is
Nintendo released a lot of games for it, it decreased it price and now 3Ds are selling like hot cookies
And do not forget that 3 system sellers are on the way for the 3Ds MH4, Pokemon and Zelda

JimLad

#179

JimLad said:

Dedicated gaming machines won't die completely, but I don't think the world is big enough for 3 consoles and 2 handhelds anymore, something has gotta give.
Also the prices of hardware are gonna have to come down if they want to keep doing business, that goes for all three companies. Joe public is not going to spend £300+ just to play video games anymore.
I'd say the 3DS is in the safest position right now. It's affordable and it has loads of great games you can't get anywhere else. The WiiU could be the same if it were much cheaper like the Wii was. The PS4/XB1... I dunno what's going to happen there. Two nearly identical systems releasing side by side. The PS4's lower price will put it at a massive advantage, but it's going to be a slow climb whoever comes out on top.
It all comes down to one thing: value for money.

Dr_Corndog

#180

Dr_Corndog said:

It makes sense when the games available for it are better than anything on those multipurpose devices.

Ren

#181

Ren said:

that's a great example @AllCreation because the reason consoles did so well is because of their ease of use/ accessibility to get to the basics that people want faster and cheaper. Ironically that's what mobiles and tablets are now and it presents an interesting option for people who don't want to mess with expensive consoles and exclusive, expensive content but want a LITTLE bit of gaming. (not to mention other things that aren't about gaming)

What I'm saying is that DS and mobile games are absolutely the same market and for only recently for the first time. That "casual" gamer that Nintendo arguably created with the Wii is a huge part of their target and when those people don't want to spend crazy money for a quick diversion they likely already have a mobile device that does enough along with other important functions.
I'm a staunch console/3DS gamer but the advance of these phones is fascinating to me and though it won't be my game machine of choice for some years I understand why it is for so many parents, working adults, and busy people. I can see how in a couple years it will surely be able to do what a 3DS can plus way more and I won't rule out retiring mine when that happens.
I don't know how this always devolves into "3ds is way better for gaming"; of course it is, why else would I be here if I didn't think that. I'm just saying I think it's naive to pretend that the convenience, speed and power of a great mobile is not part of the consumer choice in electronics.

Malkeor

#182

Malkeor said:

GameInformer did a response to this, and i'll quote the editor that did:
"It's true that Nintendo's Wii U has failed to live up to sales expectations, and Nintendo's relevance in the handheld market also seems to be waning. I don't want to say I agree with Bushnell, but Nintendo does face some very serious challenges in the next few years. I'd hate to see Ninendo become obsolete, because they've been an integral part of the gaming landscape for decades, but the industry has continued to evolve and Nintendo rarely keeps pace with modern innovations. Sure the company is innovative in it's own way, but the Wii U hasn't caught enough interest to justify its production. I hope Nintendo has a few surprises up it's sleve for the next year, because I still want to believe that Nintendo is a champ that can climb back to the top."

He has a point you know. It doesn't matter how much you love Nintendo's games, there is a truth to the hardware side of things.
Besides this guy WOULD know about this...so he knows first hand. He's not just some old fool speaking nonsense.

Zael

#184

Zael said:

also sega supporters spoke so before sega toke its path to irrilevance
We can say that nintendo isn't sega but a good critic today can save nintendo tomorrow, if they haven't understood yet that the hardware policy is wrong then I foresee a catastrophe for the future.
Buyers have given a message to nintendo, and it's clear

Frank90

#185

Frank90 said:

I could say a lot of things about why Handhelds are much better than If*cks, but I just need to say "Atari...pfff"

jayclayx

#186

jayclayx said:

@Zael your point really make sense nowadays its really difficult to see people carrying a 3ds or vita on the go, you talk about portability? your smartphone provide everything you need, personally I only play my 3ds at home or when I need leave home for several days, many people complain about Bushnell statement but speaking frankly the point you mentioned about the poor feedback between costumers and company is another issue they need focus if they want to remain in this market that evolve really fast.

Frank90

#188

Frank90 said:

I disagree with both. The real point is, how many people chose a tablet or smartphone instead of the 3DS.

Zael

#189

Zael said:

also I have noticed that today we are all gathered here to discuss nolan statement, about 200 comments that aren't on other news.
Even if they seem comments to defend nintendo I think that all this comments hide a sense of disappointment
I think that all nintendo fans today would like a different console hardware and third party support
even if we know that nintendo ip are the best

Giggity55

#190

Giggity55 said:

@Lithium Compare how long the 3ds has been out for compared to the ds. More than double the amount of time to release games on the ds than the 3ds. Also, I feel like the ds had actual competition as compared to the vita vs 3ds. This may have meant more game development for the ds than the 3ds since ds sales were higher than psp sales. But, it's your opinion so I don't want to sound like I'm "correcting" you or whatever.

Giggity55

#191

Giggity55 said:

I don't understand this statement much. I have an iPod 5 which I am actually using right now to post this comment. I would much rather play my 3ds than this for games. Wanna know why? Because its a freaking game console. That's what their made for. I use my iPod for watching videos, going on the Internet listen to music and occasionally play a pretty decent game like Deus Ex or the Walking Dead. But overall, I bought this for how convenient it is, and I bought a 3ds for games. Completely different reasons which shouldn't even be compared in my opinion.

MacroManJr

#192

MacroManJr said:

@Lithium

I answered everything you stated.

~ "All I'm reading is the comments of many angry Nintendrones." ~

Not everyone who disagrees with this guy is an "angry Nintendrone."

~ "The man has a point. The gaming market as a whole is moving away from what it's been for the last few years very, very fast and Nintendo refuses to do anything amazing but gimmicky nonsense, now they will feel the burn." ~

Want to compare the Nintendo 3DS's sales to that of the PS Vita, which is more the kind of handheld that Nolan is claiming Nintendo needs to become more like? And no, the gaming market is not "moving away" from dedicated handheld gaming--it's just growing more diverse. It's just not the only option anymore and those who aren't really dedicated gamers move towards casual gaming on tablets and smartphones.

But smartphones and tablets will NEVER suffice for core gamers. Things not moving away from dedicated handheld gaming--the audiences are just growing more diverse. Again, the Nintendo 3DS proves it. Over 32 million people agree. If we're seeing smartphones and tablets as a success with gaming, it's merely because many people already have them and most among them aren't the sort to buy handheld gaming machines to start with--they're more casual gamers, now with such option with their mobile devices. Meanwhile, core gamers stick with gaming machines for their more dedicated gaming needs.

~ "I don't want Nintendo's handhelds to go away but the 3DS is a huge step down from the mighty DS. Both for games and region locking." ~

Region-locking does suck, but it doesn't distract from what else the 3DS offers, It doesn't mean that dedicated gaming handhelds that focus mainly on gaming are a bad idea. As for games, I'm not sure what you mean there--you're not being clear here. What ABOUT games? The rate of games? The quality of games? The format of games that the 3DS accepts? What?

~ "With that being said I'm looking forward to the day Nintendo pulls a Sega and goes software." ~

And then you'll see the death of hardware innovation in the industry. Seriously. The Wii U might not be the greatest innovation in the world, but it's the ONLY console that even tries to do something differently with console gaming. Same goes for the Nintendo 3DS, which while the 3D feature doesn't prove necessary for all games, for some games it really makes a nice difference.

Nintendo's the last of their kind--a company who actually cares a lot about gaming as an art and a defining experience, and not just a media you throw horsepower at and call it a day. Nintendo often tries to go for what's going to prove a memorable experience, rather than just buying a bunch of smaller companies to merely slap together what fits the formula of "game."

By the way, if it weren't for Nintendo trying new ideas with hardware, the industry would look quite different today. Their competitors know it--thus why they always emulate their successful innovations. Notice how Sony's vowing to emulate the Wii U GamePad with PS Vita and PS3/PS4. Nintendo did touch-screen gaming before smartphones were nearly as strong as they are today, but they still had sense enough to realize that gaming will always need physical buttons.

Sony realized this in designing the PS Vita, but because they drove their focus on more things than just gaming (Internet, telecommunication, GPS, rocket launcher, etc), the PS Vita was too pricy and too lacking of games and has suffered as a result. Sony needed to take the Hank Hill approach to gaming with Vita: gaming and gaming accessories. Pure gaming should've been their first focus--not an overpriced everything-a-thon. Sometimes it pays to focus on one aspect and do that aspect well.

Oh, and Zelda on PlayStation? No disrespect to Sony, but I personally shutter at the thought. Personally, I need my PlayStation as PlayStation and my Nintendo as Nintendo. I like having distinct choices.

~ "I love it how people think this man's opinion is invalid because of Atari." ~

It's rather invalid because he's not making the best point. It's ironic, however, because he's talking as if he has experience about staying relevant. Meanwhile, the Nintendo 3DS has sold over 33 million units worldwide...which spits in the face of his point.

~ "I don't think anyone here is smart nor old enough to truly understand how much good the 2600 did for the industry. Arguably without them there would be no video games in the western world. Show some respect." ~

No one's disrespecting, disregarding or trivializing the impact of the 2600 or Atari's efforts in the past. Don't make such baseless assumptions about people here. Atari is a part of gaming heritage forever. However, no one's ignoring the fact that Atari's not around anymore while Nintendo still is, and going strong (despite the slow run of the Wii U). Even if the Wii U completely failed, Nintendo would STILL have plenty of money to try again with a new console, and chances are, they'd create a hit product, based on lessons learned with Wii U. In fact, Nintendo's much better able to try a new console from scratch than debt-heavy Sony is. If the PS4 ever saw trouble (though I doubt it will), Sony would be in a very painful position.

By the way, even NINTENDO knows that they need to adapt in some areas. Everyone from Miyamoto to Iwata to Aonuma have all stated things in the past year about their state of needing some changes with themselves, and their looking to future generation carrying Nintendo forward. They ARE aware that they'll have to grow to persist on, so they don't need someone who's not even active in the gaming industry anymore to school them.

But what's important than just making changes is keeping the spirit of Nintendo alive as well with those changes. If Nintendo stopped being Nintendo at heart, the gaming industry would lose the last of their creative, innovative ,inspiring kind. We'd live in a world of lifeless-black consoles and gray dull color palettes, with no splash of color and life that only Nintendo does best.

I think many people like you are sorely missing the point here--Nintendo's future should NEVER be judged merely because of a single product's rate of success. Nintendo could definitely use some growth, but nevertheless, in some ways, Nintendo's been adapting better than anyone out there. They don't merely copy what's out there--they create the standard that gets copied.

They don't create based on what's the current popular design concept--they lead the next popular design concept. PS Vita, Project Shield, gaming peripherals for smartphones--they'll never be as successful as the Nintendo 3DS in terms of focus on core gaming. Their success is always imitated but never duplicated. Only Nintendo has a 30-plus-year-reign in the handheld market which continues strongly today. I think that speaks louder than any critic's armchair opinion.

Nintendo may have their hard times, but then again, Nintendo's still Nintendo. They'll grow beyond it somehow. They've got plenty of experience, money, opportunity and incentive to do it.

Zael

#193

Zael said:

@Frank90
all people has at least a smartphone and it is difficult to see a 30 years old man playing a 3ds on street instead of his smartphone
This is because you have to bring the smartphone with you for job and it is unconfortable to bring also a 3ds in your pocket
also, to play games like zelda smash bros etc you have to concentrate yourself on the screen, this when you are walking and you are busy on the street
A smartphone is much more trendy for peope, youngs etc
You finish to play your 3ds at home on your sofa on relax but at this point isn't it better to support the home console?
what are we talking about?
If there are 33 mln 3ds and 3 mln wii u and the 30 mln 3ds player don't buy a wii u is because the handheld is supported better than the wii u, but not because they need an hand held. In fact ps vita is died because not supported as ps3 etc.
nintendo has two different politics for 3ds and wii u. But there is no sense in making hand held to play at home and home consoles to take dust
the 2ds is everything but an handheld, you need a bag to transport it

jayclayx

#195

jayclayx said:

@herooftime you cant just ignore what is happening outside the bubble, all this "negative" comments from people you've never hear off were on the console market, they failed because they didnt adapt to the market and they have enough experience to make an opinion, leave it or take it is a fact.

jayclayx

#196

jayclayx said:

@Frank90 numbers are talking, must of the casual gamers Nintendo create many years ago with the ds now are playing on a smartphone, plants vs zombies 2 in a week got more that 25 millions download worlwide, again, numbers are talking.

Magrane

#198

Magrane said:

I'm going eventually read the entire Nolan Bushnell transcript, but I have a distinct feeling he's talking out of his "bum" and not backing his statements with facts and figures. Of course it's obvious that tablets and smartphones have uprooted the handheld market, but if Nintendo is making a solid profit from the 3DS, his point is still arguable. There will always be a market for the 12 and under crowd (as he calls it) so if you have parents of those children who grew up on a well-known brand, chances are they're going to raise/support their kids on the same gaming technology!

And that's the problem with saying that Nintendo is headed down a path of irrevelance. It's house name brand with timeless IP's. Atari's Jaguar never had any of those nor third-party support I would think it would be very difficult to knock the big N out. They will adapt (as they were forced to with optical disc tech and having an internal social network) and survive. History has shown this.

banacheck

#200

banacheck said:

I find it mad Nintendo has only just caught up with HD gaming, something thats been going for almost a decade. If thay Nintendo keeps on adapting to technology almost a decade late, it won't be technology thats irrelevant.

LDXD

#201

LDXD said:

Wish I had a nickel for every time someone said Nintendo is doomed
@banacheck its the thought process of HD graphics that is killing the industry as it is considering how much it cost to make games these days which is why Nintendo doesn't ever put that first it should be gameplay and it seems Nintendo is the only company that knows this, what separates the ps3 and ps4 games besides a fresh coat of paint same thing with xbone except they tried to add a bunch of features that was more of a nuisance than anything else, people should be bashing that than bashing Nintendo for keeping it real I guess people just like being screwed over I sure don't. And I said many times before I'll get a ps4 when the right game comes along that I want but I won't get it because diablo 3 looks better on it than on my ps3
They will have to make up for cost somewhere be it more pointless dlc micro transactions or whatever just for better graphics with games I have to constantly wait for patches to even play . I say Nintendo is the only one doing it right

Zael

#202

Zael said:

I agrre on the fact that nintendo games have a difference, are art etc. but there are also games like final fantasy 15 that are art and can push sales.Also castlevania sotn was art and nintendo lost it when saturn and psx grab it, and what about ff7? I only say that, even if you have the best games, you have at least to bring the most important games from third parties to create a complete offer.
For example there is a lack of fighting games on nintendo,
rpg now we have xeno but on gamecube we suffered the absence of dragon quest and ffx, ys 6 etc. In usa they risked to lose xeno, the last story and pandora, it is only for operation rainfall that they could play them
Now there is dragon quest x never localized and we have been one year without a rpg

Zael

#203

Zael said:

consider that ff15 is a multiplatform, and lose a multiplatform like ff15 is a crime
those are games that come out only one time in a decade

LDXD

#204

LDXD said:

Who cares if Nintendo doesn't win the popularity contest as long as they keep making quality software they will stay relevant for a very long time and you would think Bushnell would understand this and everyone else who has doubts about Nintendo

Yoshis_VGM

#206

Yoshis_VGM said:

PPFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTT!!!! This guy is such an idiot! Nintendo is dominating the handheld market! Always have, always will. Only 12-and-under play Nintendo games? Why don't you tell him to go watch the E3 wrap video, or the PAX wrap video, and what do you know? Every. Single. Person. Was. An. Adult.

Savino

#207

Savino said:

@Ralizah
What I don´t get is your mental leap!
Where in my statement I said that the 3DS is selling poorly or that is doomed?
Nowhere!
The 3DS is a huge success and that is a fact, but when you look back few years ago do you see that the DS was selling twice as much... do wonder why there´s a 50% diference in both cases? Price? Games? Yes, that too, but more competition!

I am not saying that the 3DS will fail, that is impossible right now, I am just saying that this is last generation of DEDICATED handheld devices! The next generation of Nintendo Portables will ressamble much more a tablet than a mini-console...

You guys should be more peacefull when people are not only praising nintendo... I am a huge fan, but I am a little more into the market than you, as it seems...

ultrakatie64

#208

ultrakatie64 said:

12 and under huh? So I guess all of us who grew up playing Nintendo, recognize and trust them to produce high quality titles, and are all grown up just don't exist. Bushnell sounds more like an Internet troll or a fanboy here than a gaming icon.

russellohh

#209

russellohh said:

The other guys handle the 12 and older crowd? There are 6 DSs in my office, (of 12 people) and in 3-4 years of working in the gaming industry, I've still only even SEEN one Vita.

MrCanzine

#210

MrCanzine said:

I don't understand why all these people have to single out Nintendo when making their arguments. I wonder if it's because they'll be treated as more credible when they jump on the anti-Nintendo bandwagon?

If phones and tablets are killing traditional console gaming, then this doesn't just mean Nintendo is risking irrelevancy, but that Microsoft's XBox division and Sony's Playstation divisions also risk becoming irrelevant.

Then he says, as well as many others, that Nintendo caters only to the young crowds, which is really only false assumptions based on some word of mouth reputation Nintendo's managed to get. They really tried shaking it off with the Wii U to get that 'hardcore' crowd but it's an uphill battle. But I think it's safe to say they're not trying for the 12 and under only crowd with games like Call of Duty: Ghosts and whatnot.

Nintendo will need to evolve over time or else risk issues in the future, just as Arcades may have been phased out over time due to the prevalence of home console gaming, but that's not to say that Nintendo(And other home console companies) face extinction if they don't immediately move to software only companies.

Maybe they'll innovate further on their next generation, as Nintendo does tend to be one of the main innovators, time will tell. Personally I wouldn't mind if their next handheld were a hybrid Nindendo phone that plays Android games or even some dual boot feature. Who knows, maybe their R&D team.

Just hoping they stop singling out Nintendo only, not because I'm a fan of Nintendo, but because it shows either bias and/or ignorance, both of which are difficult to take seriously as an opinion.

Ralizah

#211

Ralizah said:

@Savino
Look, people who are "more into the market" than you or I ever will be have been making off-base predictions about the fall of Nintendo, the fall of dedicated handhelds, etc. etc. for years now. We're all a bit tired of it. Yes, handheld game systems have more competition now. Yes, handheld systems will incorporate more non-gaming functions as time goes on. The 3DS is already used for more than just playing games, after all. There is no evidence, however, that Nintendo is going to release a tablet any time in the near future, or that the 3DS will be their last handheld video game system. Video games are Nintendo's business. It's what they do, almost exclusively, unlike Sony and Microsoft.

Nictendo64

#212

Nictendo64 said:

Hmmm, well I don't know anyone under 12 with a 3ds and wii U. They are either my age or a little younger. I use the 3ds for games, internet, and Netflix. Pretty much the same thing that everyone else does with any other device. How is this not relevant?

Mr_3DS

#213

Mr_3DS said:

This guy is off his rocker. He's just jealous his company failed over time.

sleepinglion

#216

sleepinglion said:

Thanks, Donald Sutherland, but your company stopped being relevant before I started elementary school. Nintendo can afford a slow start, they have deep pockets.

raiden777

#220

raiden777 said:

@BillyCupid exactly, this guy is so out of touch with gaming. His comments are of a mere spectator,and not of participation. Love em.
Watch the profanity please — TBD

Melkaticox

#221

Melkaticox said:

He's right! The 3DS has only sold 40 million consoles in 3 years! OOOOOOOOOOOOHH, IRRELEVAAAANCE!!!!

retro_player_22

#222

retro_player_22 said:

"Handheld gaming-only device doesn't make sense any more."

So it will make sense if it had a million different non-gaming crapps on it with just a screen and no buttons? Somehow videogames are gonna go the way of the dinosaurs soon, seems most of them were already heading that way starting with the PS Vita and Xbox One. Yeah soon you won't be able to see them on store shelves anymore, you'll only find them on your browser and phone and wonder whatever happen to those cool little cartridges and discs that makes gaming so damn fun in the first place.

MiNiStRy

#223

MiNiStRy said:

Maybe he should go in the hole where they buried all the irrelevant Atari 2600 et games all those years ago!

Caryslan

#224

Caryslan said:

I know alot of people are going to dismiss Bushnell as a bitter old man who is out of touch with modern gaming, but the truth is he has something of a point. Maybe he was a bit harsh, but let's be honest here the Mobile and Tablet markets are not going anywhere anytime soon. The Vita has not made much of an impact, and the only thing that is saving the 3DS is Nintendo's first-party games and it's low price.

I know people are going to point at the 3DS' sales and say that Bushnell is out of touch, but what about 5 or 10 years down the line? Technology marches on, so what happens to Nintendo then? More importntly the gaming market on the App Store and Google Play is not going to suddenly get smaller.

And this is the core problem that Nintendo will have to face someday. They are no longer competing against other handheld gaming consoles that are focused on one thing that they can brush aside as they sit on their throne unopposed.

Mobile gaming is here to stay, and as much as people claim that it's not a threat to Nintendo, the realtiy is that its an expanding market that will keep on growing. Think of how many devices run Android, ios, and even others like the Kindle.

Everyone hypes up the 3DS' sales of 32 Million and that's an impressive figure. But it's nothing compared to the sales of the iPhone. During Q4 of 2012, Apple sold 27.4 Million iPhone 5s and 17.4 Million iPhone 4s for a total of 44.8 million units. In a single quarter, Apple has surpassed the 3DS' sales that took two years to achieve.

And in the same , the Samsung Galaxy III sold 15.4 million units.

I know everyone wants to write off Nolan Bushnell as some bitter has-been who wants to take cheap shots at Nintendo. But here's the thing, he gains nothing from taking barbs at Nintendo. He does not make games for Sony or Microsoft, and he's not an analysist like Pratcher who wants to say things that invenstors want to hear.

You may not agree with Bushnell, but he's got a point. Nintendo will have to face mobile gaming in its future. The 3DS' future may be secured, but what about the future? Will the next Nintendo handheld be capable of holding its own? How much bigger will mobile gaming be?

And before everyone starts in on me being a troll, I want to say one thing. I own a 3DS and I love it. But we have to keep in mind that this is not the same market that Nintendo dominated with the Game Boy, Game Boy Advance, and DS. Now, there are more options than ever for consumers to play games on the go.

And while I don't think Nintendo selling games on the App Store is an answer, I still think Nintendo needs to be very careful going forward.

Caryslan

#226

Caryslan said:

@Mr_3DS How can he be bitter when he was gone from Atari before the 2600 even came out? He was not there when the Lynx, Jaguar, and TIme Warner ran the company into the ground.

He has no reason to be bitter since he oversaw Atari when it first started out and was growing.

Thinking he's just bitter is a foolish idea. Maybe it could be argued that he's a little out of touch, but he's not bitter. He just does not agree with the direction video games took. He saw a different potental for them that Microsoft, Nintendo, and Sony never followed.

He's critical of the modern video game business.

thanos316

#227

thanos316 said:

okay so nintendo is going through a rough patch right now. okay everyone knows this. well the wii u is. the 3ds is doing fairly well. damn idiotic comments all the time. will nintendo die i don't really think so. more doom and gloom..

thanos316

#228

thanos316 said:

@Caryslan you noob the iphone is a phone first thing first. mobile games are the most $10.... the 3ds is an official gaming system. they bring out a new iphone like every 6 months. ds sold like hotcakes. the 3ds is picking up steam. oh yea mobile gaming is here to stay you may be right but the wii u has a tablet controller that attracts games also found on mobile devices and more.

JaxonH

#232

JaxonH said:

People keep repeating over and over that the market for dedicated handheld devices is disappearing, but it's simply not true! iPods will NEVER be a proper substitute for dedicated gaming devices, at least, not anytime in the near future. The only demographic which has been substantially affected by this new smartphone and tablet era is young women.

For example, my ex-wife and several ex-girl friends all used to play my Wii- Mario, Zelda (chicks love Zelda), you name it. But now, after the smartphone push, they all just play Farmville on Facebook. They're not going to buy a dedicated gaming device- they're perfectly happy playing Zynga games and the like on their browser, and crapware on their phones. So I will concede that there are women in their twenties who have been lost to the sea of free shovelware. Sure, if you put a Wii U in front of them they'll play it day and night, but they'll never buy one when they're now so easily entertained by the cheapest of entertainment.

And "baffled by the Wii U"?... I'm baffled that HE'S baffled. Good grief, it's a console like every other one before it, with games just like every other one before it, and the controller has a screen. What is so freiking baffling about that? Is he baffled by the PS4 since there's a touchpad on the controller? Or baffled by the Xbox One since there's this crazy motion detection device built in? Didn't think so. But a 2nd screen, well, that's just so mysteriously unprecedented

Caryslan

#233

Caryslan said:

@Neram He was not there when the crash happened. He was forced out of Atari in 1978 just as the 2600 Lanched. He had nothing to do with the crash of 1983, the Lynx, Jaguar, or what happened to Atari up to 1995.

The crash of 1983 was not his fault, he was not even direclty involved with video games during that time. He was off founding Chuck E Cheese's during that time. He had a no-compete clause with Warner when he was forced out of Atari.

Please, everyone read this before you start blaming Nolan Busnhell for the crash of 1983 or the collapase of Atari.

Bushnell had as much to do with Atari in 1983 as Fusajiro Yamauchi has with modern Nintendo. In other words, nothing.

Savino

#234

Savino said:

@Caryslan finally someone who talks with his head and not it's heart!

I keep repeating this: Animal Crossing gave us the tip... Nintendo "tablet" will be a thing in the future!

Gridatttack

#236

Gridatttack said:

Actually, its all about the games.

The console is just something in which we can enjoy awesome games from different parties :>

UnseatingKDawg

#237

UnseatingKDawg said:

Handheld gaming certainly isn't in any danger - after all, many dislike or cannot play a game with touch-screen buttons. That, and an iPod just ain't designed to play games for extended periods of time.

GamerJunkie

#238

GamerJunkie said:

This old guy is right.

I have not seen a teenager or adult using a Nintendo handheld in years in my city. Maybe at home they have one or a few really nerdy people might have them in college.

However, the majority and I mean 90%+ of gamers that game on the go use a phone or tablet.

nintendo is putting way too much time into handhelds that will soon be obsolete and they are ignoring their console business and will fall way behind sony and microsoft.....

Zombie_Barioth

#239

Zombie_Barioth said:

He has a point, not that I completely agree or Nintendo is going to disappear, but he does. A phone is a phone first and foremost, that much is true, but now that phone also has apps that can replace many other devices we'd normally have to bring along, like a calculator or camera. Thats not something we had the technology for back when most of us grew up.

Now for professonals, hobbiests, ect. those aren't good enough but for most people they're good enough for everyday use. The enthusiast market isnt nearly as big as the mainstream market, they're not as reliable as consumers but the numbers make up for it.

The people who bought a Gamboy for Tetris or whatever isn't going to buy a 3DS for those games if that phone they have is good enough for that purpose. For many kids mobile devices are replacing what would have been their first handheld. Theres a place for dedicated devices but multi-purpose devices will cut into the mainstream audience, meaning there won't be as many people to support them anymore.

Nintendo isn't as much at risk for that since the don't put as many resources into things and seem to have found their niche, but Sony and Microsoft have realized that being the best dedicated device isn't enough anymore.

Groosenator

#240

Groosenator said:

You know what I think would be interesting? A Nintendo Phone. Design it primarily as a games console, but include the tech for talking and texting in it as well. It could have the standard circle pad, touch controls, four face buttons and two shoulder buttons present on a handheld Nintendo device, but it could be shaped more like a phone (and only one screen).

It would be a very interesting experiment, to say the least; I believe a good portion of iPhone and Android owners would flock to it for the improved gaming opportunities.

Granted, such a move will never happen because Nintendo is Nintendo. This may be a good thing, though; such a move would change the gaming market forever. Who can say if it would be in a good way?

FJOJR

#241

FJOJR said:

He is an expert about how a company can get to be irrelevant. At some point Nintendo will have to provide a mobile option. But I think they want to do it their own unique way and research how to put a Nintendo spin to mobile before doing so. I would gladly drop my iPhone for a Nintendo mobile device.

ikki5

#242

ikki5 said:

wait... people play games on their ipod? since when? Ipods are primarily used for Music by the majority of people.

Yesrod45

#243

Yesrod45 said:

@Jono97 Consoles were "never" more powerful than a PC, and also you just said Nintendo needs to make a handheld more powerful than a PC, even if you were talking about home consoles it would cost more than an Xbox One and a PS3 at launch combined. The smart-phone game market are people wanted to play a game for a few minutes while waiting in line, The DS market is that partially but at the same time one that wants "Long Lasting" games with Story, Smooth Gameplay, Great Soundtracks, and more thus it pleases two markets. Also people who play console games won't think hey I'm going to play all my games on Iphone this gen and not buy a Wii U.

Now the part were you said Nintendo needs exclusives is dumb, most the 3DS game library are exclusive around 60-80% is and Nintendo has more exclusives than Microsoft and Sony combined. Think next time!

RantingThespian

#244

RantingThespian said:

Until Smart Phones and Tablets can play games like the 3DS creates (in both graphics and size), and can actually find a way to have buttons that work well without being intrusive, the dedicated handheld gaming console is here to stay.

I have a smart phone and a tablet, yet when I play games they are normally on my 3DS, Wii U, or PC.

Yesrod45

#246

Yesrod45 said:

@Lithium Please explain why 3DS went down in quality compared to DS most the its library is great and has only been out for 2 years,and No you're wrong there would be no games without Magnavox because they made the first home console now if try say Atari started the crash that cause the industry to learn from it, you are still wrong if Atari never existed the crash would have still happened because every other company did the exact same thing as them.

Yesrod45

#247

Yesrod45 said:

@Groosenator If went up to President Iwata he would punch you in the face if you said that to him, that not threat it's a fact, He literally punched a stock holder in the face for saying that once and it was article on this site.

DaemonSword

#248

DaemonSword said:

He's just mad that Nintendo refused to put up his greatest game ever, E.T. 2600, on the 3DS Virtual Console. lol

Purple

#249

Purple said:

@Beta I Love it, Luigi's Mansion 2, StarFox 64 re release, Mari kart7, professor Layton, crashmo, Pilot Wings Resort, Mario & Luigi Dream Team, Zelda and smash bros coming and yeah animal crossing was the reason I got one for myself, my wife got me hooked after I got her one. We're both 29 and yeah we play Nintendo ... Been playin since Duck Hunt and Super Mario Bros.- 3 I didn't even mention third party or Japanese influenced games. No way is 3DS weaker than DS. I don't know what that person is talkin about. I haven't had this much fun with this many games since the original game boy.

Yesrod45

#250

Yesrod45 said:

@GamerJunkie 2 Sentences : Over 32 million 3DS's sold within 2 years vs. a market that been around for 6 years plus it serves as a multimedia device. I know people who hate games and only play Iphone games because it's simple and wastes time while waiting on something.

bloodycelt

#251

bloodycelt said:

Hmm, I think that casual gaming is going to mobile, but thats nothing new, it already did 10 years ago in Japan (or even earlier). However, AFAIK the Japanese market is all about handheld games. They live in cramped quarters, and take 1-2 hour commutes on trains, and... Japanese developers have struggled in the HD era, and so embraced the handheld market. Given that Americans drive more than commute, like FPS (which are better on consoles/pc), and have better living rooms... handhelds took off with tetris, and for the most part... are not as strong in US then Japan. And I could see a huge chunk of the market going to mobile phones, but... some core titles that do sell well over here (Pokemon, Layton) only run on a handheld, so that will keep sales up.

The post-launch season of Xbox One and PS4 will prove out if the Wii U flopped, or if the market has shrunk.

I do think in the long run Nintendo might want to consider taking the screen controller a step further, with their next console succeeding both the DS line and the Wii line.

Caryslan

#252

Caryslan said:

After reading some of the comments, I am very shocked and saddened on how little people know about Nolan Bushnell and gaming before the NES. For the record everyone, Nolan Bushnell had nothing to do with the crash of 1983 or the downfall of Atari.

ToastyYogurt

#253

ToastyYogurt said:

Tell me handheld gaming devices are doomed when the next iPad gets two analogue sticks and some face buttons.

banacheck

#254

banacheck said:

@MrCanzine
Of course Sony & Microsoft face the same risk, Nintendo don't do themselves any favours saying "We look at ourselves as a Toy Company" & also refering to there customers as children. And is it not fact Nintendo are having indie games from the mobile market on the Wii U.

Also gaming has come a long way since the 80's, so it's going to keep on evolving over the decades.

DeChunk

#255

DeChunk said:

The one thing many people forget when saying, "Nintendo should just make a powerful console like XBox and PlayStation", is that they tried that with the GameCube, and it got them in last place. The GameCube was the console with the most raw power at the time and it came in dead last against the juggernaut PS2 and the new guy in the room XBox. So they said, "pure power isn't going to do it. What can we do to be different?" And that's how we got the Wii. A machine designed to be different, but lead to gimmicky releases and lots of shovelware. A machine that was almost HD, but Nintendo didn't think enough people would have a proper tv for it.
The argument has been that The Big N needs the multi-plats, but having all the big releases on multiple platforms is still fairly new to gaming. I know it doesn't seem that way, but it's only been around ten years that it was really prevalent. With the huge cost of making these beautiful HD realistic graphics, game companies need to cover their bases and reach the largest group possible, leading to a lot of sequels and me-too type games putting too much into spectacle and not genuine awe. The whole industry needs to change from a basic cost/return standpoint. You know what games really looked amazing last gen? Not Skyrim with its immersion breaking glitches, not Call of Duty 3 with its washed out pallet, and not Gears of War with its samey character design. It was games like Journey and Kirby's Epic Yarn that had some of the best graphics. They gave you a distinct visual style that really helped pull you into the game, and those games didn't need to be massively funded ventures. Accurate representations can only do so much. In the right hands, it can be great, just look at Poral 1-2. Everything contributes to an overarching feel of the moment.
As for the handheld scene, while the 3DS is doing some things outside its comfort zone, a la Netflix, I would like to bring up something I realized. Last gen, I had both a PSP and a DS, both of which I logged probably hundreds of hours in, but while I was fine with the DS controls, the lack of a second analog stick on the PSP bugged me enough to complain about it. Now I have a 3DS and no complaints about only one analog stick. People will play Nintendo handhelds because they know how to make games that fit the system, and not force something in a way it shouldn't. Mobile gaming is becoming lucrative for free to play on the go, but hey give me your money to play more experiences, but I'd rather play Shining Force or Luigi's Mansion than Candy Crush Saga and a twitch shooter that doesn't respond like it needs to because it's overheating my battery and now it's crashed my phone.
So Nintendo will make well thought out games for machines they designed to play them on, while mobile platforms will grab money from people who just want their digital cow to produce a bit more milk sooner.

Sean_Aaron

#256

Sean_Aaron said:

He might have a point, actually. If it wasn't for my daughter liking Pokemon so much I wouldn't have seen the point in getting her a 3DS because she uses my iPad for games and watching YouTube videos more than she did her DSi previously. Her school is requiring students to have tablets by age 11, so what parent is going to drop the cash on a second handheld device when there's rafts of games they can do with their tablet.

The "buttons are better" argument only counts if you've had that gaming experience previously and, more importantly, care about it. Games like Plants vs. Zombies, Angry Birds and Minecraft which kids go mad for don't benefit materially from anything beyond a touch screen.

We have a generation of young kids coming up that won't remember a world without touchscreens - I have no trouble believing that a dedicated handheld gaming device will continue to have a smaller niche audience until it's non-existent. That doesn't mean Nintendo will fail, but I expect their next handheld will be more like an iPad and whilst games like Pokemon and Animal Crossing will prove attractive to the kids, you're going to see things like built-in Productivity applications to try to convince parents this is a better option than a tablet from another manufacturer. It might even be that Nintendo decides to license Android and tweak it a bit to get a larger developer cross-section.

Kage_88

#257

Kage_88 said:

Wow, Atari huh? THAT company knows a thing or two about irrelevance, eh? EH?

  • Looks at the 260 people before him who made the same joke *

Oh.

Anywho, I've actually been saying for a few years now that the lines between 'handheld' and 'home console' are getting blurrier and blurrier - and Nintendo knows this. That's why it made the Wii U GamePad. That's why it merged the console and handheld R&D departments. I'm actually quite excited to see what future machines the Big N will unleash.

Zombie_Barioth

#259

Zombie_Barioth said:

@Sean_Aaron
Thats interesting, I've never heard about schools requiring them over here. I've heard of schools requiring laptops though so I'm not really surprised. I remember having to buy a 3.5 floppy for saving work, boy how times have changed.

I definitely agree about kids being less inclined to want a handheld these days. I've noticed my 6-year old cousin plays on her mother's ipod touch all the time and rarely uses her DS, while her older brother is old enough to have grown up playing traditional consoles and regularly uses both. Its all about what they grew up with.

I think Nintendo is on the right track, they just need to expand the multi-media features, apps, and maybe switch to an android-based OS. That way they could allow people to use it with apps they already have. Nintendo seems a bit reluctant to go the multi-media route though which could be a problem.

Purple

#260

Purple said:

My 3DS just needs to be able to text and I wont need a phone. Come on next nintendo generation. The next gen nintendo might work like apple tv where you have one handheld device you can take with you and it streams to your tv. All games will be digital downloads or streamed like netflix hulu. Ohhhh imagine that?

AllCreation

#261

AllCreation said:

@Ren Your entire statement is completely convoluted so I'm just gonna take it one paragraph at at a time and explain to you everything that is wrong with what you are saying... you said:

"that's a great example @AllCreation because the reason consoles did so well is because of their ease of use/ accessibility to get to the basics that people want faster and cheaper. Ironically that's what mobiles and tablets are now and it presents an interesting option for people who don't want to mess with expensive consoles and exclusive, expensive content but want a LITTLE bit of gaming. (not to mention other things that aren't about gaming)"

Wrong !!There are Only 2 advantages current gaming consoles have over a decent Gaming PC Rig 1) They're generally cheaper and 2) Exclusive content. You are blatantly wrong and I suggest you do sum research if you believe otherwise. And of course I going to repeat That Nintendo isn't targeting ANYONE that "wants a LITTLE bit of gaming". Next you Wrote

"What I'm saying is that DS and mobile games are absolutely the same market and for only recently for the first time. That "casual" gamer that Nintendo arguably created with the Wii is a huge part of their target and when those people don't want to spend crazy money for a quick diversion they likely already have a mobile device that does enough along with other important functions."

This one is easy because I've already said it a few times but the causal gamer that bought the Wii is not the primary target for the 3DS. Nintendo still hope to eventually drag that audience back to some degree with the Wii U but while the 3DS does have the virtual console and now pretty decent Indie Support No One is buying the console for those games. I actually have been agreeing with you the entire time in that casual gamers probably wont by a 3DS but you seem oblivious to the fact (despite obvious statistics) that Actual Gamers WILL and have already bought a 3DS. Its sitting at 33,000,000 in sales right now and its now where near the end of of its life cycle. How many units does the damn thing have to sell to be considered a success? and finally you wrote:

"I'm a staunch console/3DS gamer but the advance of these phones is fascinating to me and though it won't be my game machine of choice for some years I understand why it is for so many parents, working adults, and busy people. I can see how in a couple years it will surely be able to do what a 3DS can plus way more and I won't rule out retiring mine when that happens.
I don't know how this always devolves into "3ds is way better for gaming"; of course it is, why else would I be here if I didn't think that. I'm just saying I think it's naive to pretend that the convenience, speed and power of a great mobile is not part of the consumer choice in electronics."

Yes i agree smart phones are fascinating but they are indeed a different market than a dedicated handheld gaming console. To help you understand lets take a look at a completely different Smart Phone feature, The Camera. These days just about every smart phone has one but that doesn't mean that Canon and Nikon are going out of business. If you're a photographer then you're probably not going to rely on your smart phone's camera when you need to take quality pictures. In that same regard a True Gamer isn't going to settle for Temple Run when he/she wants a quality mobile gaming experience.

Currently smart phones might have a handle on convenience but the existing handhelds we have are light years ahead when it comes to speed and power. Its very unlikely that a phone that does gaming better then the 3DS will appear before Nintendo moves on and releases a better handheld. Besides that history has shown us that Smart Phones that put to great an emphasis on gaming Don't Sell Well. So, I repeat, there ARE two completely different and distinct markets a play here and If the Success of the 3DS isn't enough to help you understand that, Then the failure of Smart Phones who've come to close to crossing into that gamers market (N-Gage, Xperia Play. Gizmondo) should be.

TheAdrock

#262

TheAdrock said:

I do think that Nintendo would be wise to develop a home console that truly can "do it all", as a total home entertainment system. Someone is going to and they will win. The U could have been, with the gamepad being the comprehensive TV remote, but TVii just sucks, and there's no DVR.

Jono97

#263

Jono97 said:

@Yesrod45 Consoles were once much more powerful than PC's. In the N64 era, PC's were used mainly for typing documents. Floppy disks ranged around 2mb. Don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that Mario64 was bigger than 2mb. People are not as hyped for "next-gen graphics" anymore because they know it would look similar to what they have already seen on PC.
No, I don't mean hand holds have to be as powerful as a PC.. But...
There're plenty of decent games that are up to scratch with 3DS titles on the IOS/Android market. Take for example: NOVA, GTA, Shadow gun (they're also cheaper). Most of these games are compatible with ad-on controllers or even some android gaming device like the Nividia shield.
With exclusives is where I do agree with you. I know that many people buy a 3DS or WiiU for the brand or the exclusives. Nintendo did do a great job on keeping these exclusives alive. On the other hand however, Nintendo is slowly losing player interest. Almost all my friends have once owned a DS and/or Wii. And almost none of them own a 3DS and none of them own a WiiU. 

ajcismo

#265

ajcismo said:

He invented Pong, so theres no denying his place in history... and then got kicked out of Atari before the end of 70s. If you look at his list of business ventures (and failures) since then, its hard to really take him seriously.

dumedum

#266

dumedum said:

Atari Founder: "Please Nintendo, be also on the Atari path, so I don't look so pathetic".

Windy

#267

Windy said:

I dogged on Nolan earlier so I wont do it again. You know to me it seems some people want to see Nintendo Fail. Some people want to see MS, Apple and Sony fail. Everyone has their reasons. But, Diversity in gaming is a good thing. Where one system gets it wrong. The other system seems to get it right. So for most of us who do play other platforms it sure is a good Time to be a gamer. My current Favorite is the 3DS. It looks like that will be so for quite a while

Caryslan

#268

Caryslan said:

@dumedum That's a cute one. I'm sure Nolan Bushnell ismaking all these comments because he wants Nintendo to fail... You do realize the Atari he ran was a highly successful company right? It did not start to fail until years after he left. Unless we're talking about the most petty man in the world, the reality is that he has no reason to see Nintendo fail since he never competed with Nintendo in the marketplace.

The Atari that did compete with Nintendo was not run by him.

Yesrod45

#269

Yesrod45 said:

@Jono97 I Knew in the N64 era console were more powerful I forgot thanks for correcting me.
Now on the middle part yes I knew you would respond with that The Conduit was on Wii and Tablets but most of its market is still based on casual games. Most companies attempting to do this within gaming are slowing sinking like Square Enix even if companies make more that is great, the market usually buy $3 games max on one game any way so the market have to change their interest and what they play.

Now the part about your friends they might have been casual gamers.

Caryslan

#270

Caryslan said:

@ajcismo I would agree with you, expect very few of his ventures have involved video games. I think too many people are acting like his opinion does not matter, and he's some bitter has-been who wants to take pot shots at a successful company.

Thing is, he has no reason to take cheap shots at anyone. And this is where I think his opinion does matter, even if people are inclined to disagree with him. Unlike EA, someone working for Sony or Microsoft, or an analyst like Pratcher he does not gain anything by judging Nintendo.

Which means contrary to what alot of people on here think, his opinion is not skewed by fanboyism or loyality to a platform.

He's been very vocal about his opinion on all aspects of modern gaming. And yes, he has called out Sony and Microsoft in the past as well. The only reason why his comments about Nintendo get plastered on this website is because this is a site focused on Nintendo.

To be honest, I am very sickened that so many people on here simply dismiss him as an old fool or can't even be bothered to do basic research on the man before they comment. It's fine to disagree with his opinion, but this man is the father of modern gaming. He is a major reason why later companies like Nitnendo and Sega would eventually get involved in video games and becomes such major successes..

And the level of disrespect that so many show him is sad. People act like he was some corrupt CEO or an idiot who fiddled who Atari crashed and burned.

One other thing, you are right he has several failed companies. But I've read up on them, and many of them seemed to be highly ambitious companies that were before their time. But here's the thing, none of those were video game companies that are like EA, Sega, or Nintendo. Therefore, his opinion is still valid since he is sitting on a string of failed video game companies.

It's fine to disagree with Bushnell's opinion, but too many people on here just dismiss him as an idiot who is too old to understand gaming.

I think one of the fathers of gaming deserves better.

Caryslan

#271

Caryslan said:

By the way, this is for everyone who assumes Bushnell simply targets Nintendo. Here are some comments he made about the PS3 when it launched.

"I think Sony shot themselves in the foot... there is a high probability [they] will fail. The price point is probably unsustainable. For years and years Sony has been a very difficult company to deal with from a developer standpoint. They could get away with their arrogance and capriciousness because they had an installed base. They have also historically had horrible software tools. You compare that to the Xbox 360 with really great authoring tools [and] additional revenue streams from Xbox live...a first party developer would be an idiot to develop for Sony first and not the 360. People don't buy hardware, they buy software. "

Blue-Thunder

#272

Blue-Thunder said:

OK I watched the video and now I think he's a knob. He probably thinks he's a legend, which he clearly is not.
Nintendo have an iron grip on the handheld market. Their home console is struggling and I do think they need to change, but they are just doing what they have always done, except now they have the casual gamer in their sights. If Nintendo could cater a little bit more for the core gamer i think their problems would disappear.
Some people call Nolan Bushnell the godfather of gaming, I disagree because the godfather of gaming is Hiroshi Yamauchi.

Nico07

#273

Nico07 said:

@BillyCupid Hillarious and I agree. Atari was around for how long? Nintendo is going solid after all these years and the only thing holding the Wii U back is games that are actively being developed... not quite irrelevant yet. It's funny because critics have been saying the same thing about Nintendo since the NES. "Genesis will be the first to the US market with a 16 bit console, this will go bad for Nintendo". Nintendo has always been top tier at producing first party content, their games are always unique and sell well for years. I don't see Nintendo going down any path to irrelevance unless the general public eventually esteems Angry Birds style apps as the only games worth purchasing.

Caryslan

#274

Caryslan said:

@Falco Given how Hiroshi Yamauchi operated Nintendo in the 80's, I'm inclined to agree. You can get the video game mafia vibe with how he handled third-parties back in the 80's and early 90's.

To be honest, I'm shocked he did not order a hit on the head of Namco when they spoke out against Nintendo and the godfather back then

gameboy1975

#275

gameboy1975 said:

@banacheck

Well to be fair, what I find maddening yet oh so funny so many times is how some out here only go back as far as 10 years or so to try & make a point about embracing HD gaming. Oh wait, I forget that it's only been close to that time ago that other companies were using that as a buzzword & selling point to get folks to buy into their system ha ha.

I mean, we do know that HD gaming (and HD in general) has been going on way before certain companies had to tell you that it existed & was the bees knees that you needed in your life, right? Funny that nobody seemed to care before then. Anyway, while he has his opinion & outlook ( which should stll be considered) at the moment data seems to suggest otherwise.

Like someone commented on earlier, it is just expanding IMO which can be a good thing for all gamers. Thise who catch the fevertheyry can move on to deeper fare with the various options available via handhelds. That could be their gateway that brings them into the gaming fold. And if not, the more lite fare is there to serve it's purpose for thosd just wanting to scratch the momentary itch.

And then it also is their for the young, smaller, & up & coming devs to maybe have a space to hone their skills before stepping up or making their money carving out their own little niche. In any case, there's options available. And from what I hear (especially on vg boards such as these) that's supposed to always be a good thing.

A1234

#276

A1234 said:

and Atari did not release the NES (Famicom) in the States when Nintendo asked Atari if they wanted to do that. after Atari's decision look at what happened to Nintendo and Atari. do you think Atari likes Nintendo?

Monkeh

#277

Monkeh said:

Oh you old, out of touch man. 3DS is printing money for Nintendo, but yeah you're right, there's no place for it in today's world.

Pod

#279

Pod said:

They're exactly as relevant as they have been the whole time.

3DS is selling faster than the GameBoy used to, and whether or not they approve of the system, the industry is discussing the Wii U all the loving time.
Watch the profanity please — TBD

Caryslan

#280

Caryslan said:

@Falco I love him for what he did, but he was a very ruthless businessman during that era. There's a nifty book called Game Over that goes into more detail.

But I was pretty much joking. I loved the cutthroat ruthless nature of Nintendo and Sega during the 8 and 16-bit eras. Its something that seems to be missing from the modern gaming business.

cdawg

#281

cdawg said:

The 3ds dominates the market but it sells like what, half as much as the DS used to 8 years ago? Its going to be difficult to sell a handheld console when there are powerful devices out there that play game and are also phones. The handheld market is a lost cause long term. The talk about quality of games and all that stuff is irrelevant to your casual user.

Now nintendo needs a massive change of strategy and image. For a very long itme it seems, the company has refused to acknowledge the market they are part of and keep up with it (online capabilities and HD only until 2013, come on). They lost their customer base because they all moved to systems that gave them what they wanted which is a capital sin. Give me a good competitive console where I can experience popular titles and that the bonus is to play nintendo IPs and Im there. The console market is dictated by people who are willing to shell out the cash and place the device in front of a tv and dedicate time to it. No surprise that this same crowd is people who are looking at experiencing more mature content. Nintendo doesnt listen to its consumers and does not acknowledge the market they have to be a part of and they are paying for it sadly. The CEO needs to be fired, their hardware policy has to change, their image has to move away from toy/kiddie/casual, and they need to listen to their customers before they decide to move on to somwhere else which has been happening for what it seems like 12 years now.

cdawg

#282

cdawg said:

Also, they seem to be getting themselves into the cycle where a third party wont port until nintendo can guarantee a certain ammount of sales, but nintendo cant sell because they dont have the 3rd party ports.

They need to change soon.

P-Gamer-C

#283

P-Gamer-C said:

aside from the handheld market nintendo already is a joke in the gaming community and the ios market will soon end even the handhelds nintendo needs new leadership they seem to have lost there passion.

unrandomsam

#284

unrandomsam said:

The ipad has a better selection of old games than the 3DS

Nothing is being produced on the ipad at the quality of Nintendo's 1st party DS / 3DS games though.

(Stuff exists but it was made for e.g Dreamcast / Genesis / Arcade / Older PC stuff etc - Thing that will make it worth having is the 8 for the price of 1 or whatever it is. And the fact that 4:3 stuff looks better in 4:3 (Not to mention arcade stuff that should use 3:4)

All it needed was support for a controller. (Which ios7 will provide).

Wii U has got some good games on the VC but it has extra the minimum latency that support for the gamepad adds. (Stuff made with it mind won't be a problem - at least it won't be for Nintendo but stuff for consoles that had 0 previously won't play as well it is impossible).

ecco6t9

#285

ecco6t9 said:

Phones and Tablets lack decent controls.

I played Atari's Greatest Hits on the DS and iOS and found the iOS version unplayable.

WaxxyOne

#286

WaxxyOne said:

Sure, the tablets and phones of today have games... all of which are terrible. The market for tablet aka "casual" gaming is completely different from what Nintendo is selling. I don't consider the ability to divert myself for 5 minutes flinging birds at pigs to be true gaming, and the few times that the crappy mobile titles have been ported to 3DS (Words Up, Bird Mania 3D), it's resulted in some lackluster or just plain terrible experiences. Until there are a large selection of games of the caliber of Ocarina of Time or Donkey Kong Country Returns on tablet devices, I see two different markets with very little overlap.

And, sorry, but if parents don't want to buy a game console for their children and show them what real gaming is, how is that Nintendo's fault? Too many children are being brought up on these casual garbage games and wouldn't have the first clue what to do if they suddenly had a Nintendo game in front of them. Can you imagine someone who's only used to playing simple tap and slide games on a tablet suddenly loading up Pikmin 3? What a joke.

Nintendo should keep doing what it's doing peddling real game experiences to those intelligent enough to understand the difference. God help us if they stop. Think of how bleak the future would look if your only two choices were Angry Birds and Call of Duty 57.

Zombie_Barioth

#287

Zombie_Barioth said:

@AllCreation
Thats not what Ren is saying at all, and nobody is comparing them to modern PCs so your point is moot for this discussion.

The convenience of plugging in a cartridge is what made them popular, as well as arcade ports and their own exclusive content. Consoles aren't as convenient as they were since they lost that plug n' play aspect.

Your right that there are several markets at work and Nintendo isn't just targeting one but the enthusiast market is still much smaller, albeit more reliable. Remember how Tetris helped the Gamboy take off? The mobile market is eating into that part of the mainstream market that would have bought a dedicated handheld just for games like that.

The enthusiast market is still there and likely always will be, but are we enough to support an entire console these days? Handhelds should continue to do well in Japan since they're a lot more apart of their culture, but thats not the case elsewhere. The saving grace is most people don't want to pay premium prices on mobile devices, but the enthusiast market is willing to pay for premium content. All I'm saying is it isn't so cut and dry.

I agree with you though about the way people tend to bring out the pitchforks and torches whenever someone speaks out against Nintendo. They like to treat guys like Bushnell and Pachter as washed up has beens, when really they don't even follow them outside of these articles anyway.

AllCreation

#288

AllCreation said:

you should find the beginning of the conversation before you post a comment. We WERE comparing Home Consoles to PCs and drawing the parallel to the mobile phone vs dedicated handhelds market so the point is very much relevant.

"The convenience of plugging in a cartridge is what made them popular, as well as arcade ports and their own exclusive content. Consoles aren't as convenient as they were since they lost that plug n' play aspect."

I don't understand you're point here. Are you saying because we use a CD instead of a cartridge Home consoles are suddenly Sooo Complex?

"Your right that there are several markets at work and Nintendo isn't just targeting one but the enthusiast market is still much smaller, albeit more reliable. Remember how Tetris helped the Gamboy take off? The mobile market is eating into that part of the mainstream market that would have bought a dedicated handheld just for games like that."

With this comment you're completely ignoring the evolution of gaming. There are NO PEOPLE this day and age that would buy a dedicated handheld for games like Tetris. Those games are indeed now a part of the mobile market along with pong and temple run and various other games where you "match cakes" and do much else in the way of game play. For the umpteenth time I repeat the dedicated handheld market is something completely distinct and different.

"The enthusiast market is still there and likely always will be, but are we enough to support an entire console these days? Handhelds should continue to do well in Japan since they're a lot more apart of their culture, but thats not the case elsewhere. The saving grace is most people don't want to pay premium prices on mobile devices, but the enthusiast market is willing to pay for premium content. All I'm saying is it isn't so cut and dry."

But it is so cut and dry. The answer is YES, we are enough. just as you say its a part of the Japanese culture it is a part of our culture as well... Contrary to popular belief the number one selling console in US history is actually the original DS a handheld selling 57 million units 4 million more than the PS2. AND now, the 3ds is and has consistently been the number one selling system here in the states, month after month. It has already sold enough to the point where even if there was suddenly some grand market shift the console already is and will be profitable. How can you just completely ignore of the all of the sales numbers, gaming phone failures, facts, figures, and evidence that are continually showing that there ARE in fact to separate markets when it comes to indie games on smart phones and dedicated handheld gaming.

Just as a side-note I watch Pachter every week. I find him insightful and unfortunately right a lot of the time... BUT... Bushnell doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

Zombie_Barioth

#289

Zombie_Barioth said:

@AllCreation
Sorry if I don't keep track every post in a 150+ post-count article, but I though you were bringing up modern PCs in a comparison to the consoles' origins. With that, my first point is a bit moot but I was refering to loosing that plug n' play aspect with modern hardware.

"With this comment you're completely ignoring the evolution of gaming. There are NO PEOPLE this day and age that would buy a dedicated handheld for games like Tetris. Those games are indeed now a part of the mobile market along with pong and temple run and various other games where you "match cakes" and do much else in the way of game play. For the umpteenth time I repeat the dedicated handheld market is something completely distinct and different."

I was actually agreeing with you one that, there are people still buying those games but they aren't the casual gamers. As we all know Tetris is what helped the Gameboy take off, that won't be the case anymore.

With the rest I was talking about the future. The 3DS is doing just great, theres no doubt about it, but what happens one or two generations down the road? Japan could easily support handhelds just fine due to being much more ingrained into their culture, thats not the case elsewhere. In the west people prefer consoles and PCs for gaming. I'm not making predictions or anything, just saying that times and peoples' tastes change so what works now might not tomorrow.

AllCreation

#291

AllCreation said:

Just thought I'd back track a little and mention that the Gameboy was about $100 when it first came out and at the time Tetris was at the height of technology. So back then the audience that bought Tetris and the Gameboy were not the casual market you tried to link them to earlier. The People who paid $100 to play Tetris back in 1989 when it was first released were Gamers.

I do agree with you when you say that "what works now might not work tomorrow" But, I'm sure Nintendo will try to incorporate a little bit of "what works tomorrow" when they create their Next Handheld Console, Because I'd like to believe that "One or two generations down the road" the 3DS will be on the road to retirement the same way the phenomenal number 1 selling console in US history (The Original DS) is as we speak. You say that people prefer Consoles and PCs for gaming but the sales numbers say otherwise. I think you maybe a little out of touch with just how "ingrained" into OUR OWN culture the dedicated handheld has become.

Yorumi

#292

Yorumi said:

Who knew how many fortune tellers and video game experts were registered on nintendolife. You guys should all start your own companies since you know so much.

Also for those arguing that a console has ever been more powerful than a pc, I can say this with confidence, stop because you know absolutely nothing about the subject you're talking about.

DarkKirby

#294

DarkKirby said:

The 3DS is great and if nothing else people love Pokemon too much (me included).

That said, as a consumer, I question and disagree with many of Nintendo's decisions.

Volke93

#295

Volke93 said:

What a shame..... a great console like the 3ds hated so much.... for nothing...

Benjelo

#296

Benjelo said:

I personally enjoy Nintendo and it's gaming style, I mean this site is called Nintendolife isn't it? In order to be here we all must have some positive feelings toward nintendo, right? In order for that to happen we all have to enjoy the games and gaming consoles of nintendo to some extent. With that said, how is it that there are some who question our anger at these comments against the handheld systems? I have been a fan of Handhelds all the way back to the GameBoy Color, while in comparison to cells and tablets I have never really appreciated them that much as far as gaming goes. I mean, i enjoyed occasionally playing those "quick hits"(like Temple Run, Angry Birds) but I'd only play them for a week and be done with them, also I would only play up to 10 min at a time. With Nintendo's handheld I can play games for months and still enjoy them and 1 or 2 hours at a time! In all honesty phones/tablets and gaming handhelds should not be compared.

After all I don't think this guy has any right to use irrelevant in gaming. Not because he is the creator of the atari from way back when so much, but because he is not as involved with gaming as he used to. Perhaps he still picks up a game every now and then, I wouldn't know. But I have trust in the people running Nintendo that they are doing the best thing for the customers, the company, for everyone.

Zombie_Barioth

#297

Zombie_Barioth said:

@AllCreation
I didn't mean it that way, Tetris wasn't what made the Gamboy a success, but it did become one of its "killer apps" and people did buy one just to play tetris. For some people thats all they'd play on it, thats not something Nintendo can easily recreate anymore.

As for what I said about the west prefering consoles and PCs, I was talking about how we generally prefer playing online while Japan prefers playing on handhelds for various reasons, including local play. Obviously handhelds do purfectly well over here just as consoles do in Japan, our preferences are just sorta flipped. I'm not saying they'll disappear but if they were to they'd likely do so long before Japan.

AllCreation

#298

AllCreation said:

I understand what you're saying... I think... but I do disagree. Tertris then was equivical to Super Mario 3D Land Now. It was a system seller back when handheld gaming was new. Now a days a game like Tetris is more like something you would find in the IOS/Smart Phone market BUT Nintendo CAN (and does) recreate that KillerApp/System Seller experience the gamers had in Tetris back in the day with games like Animal Crossing, Mario Kart 7, Super Mario 3D Land, Fire Emblem Awakening, etc. etc. etc.

AllCreation

#299

AllCreation said:

I understand what you're saying... I think... but I do disagree. Tertris then was equivical to Super Mario 3D Land Now. It was a system seller back when handheld gaming was new. Now a days a game like Tetris is more like something you would find in the IOS/Smart Phone market BUT Nintendo CAN (and does) recreate that KillerApp/System Seller experience the gamers had in Tetris back in the day with games like Animal Crossing, Mario Kart 7, Super Mario 3D Land, Fire Emblem Awakening, etc. etc. etc.

Nintygek

#300

Nintygek said:

Haha. How to run (read: ruin) your company by Atari. But if anyone knows how to go bankrupt, it's Atari!
ps: I'm not a hater, I love atari2600 ;-) Fond memories back in 1984-85.

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