News Article

Wii U Hardware Still Being Sold At A Loss

Posted by Damien McFerran

Don't hold your breath for a price cut

Nintendo usually likes to sell its hardware at a profit, right from day one — something which sets the company apart from the likes of Sony and Microsoft, who have traditionally taken massive hits on hardware in the hope that software sales will make up the deficit.

However, a Nintendo representative speaking to Games Industry has revealed that the Wii U console is still being sold at a loss half a year after it was launched.

This will come as a blow to fans who were expecting Nintendo to reduce the price of the console in the run-up to Christmas, when both Sony and Microsoft will be launching their own next-gen challengers. Keen to push for profits this year, Iwata may be reluctant to slash the price of the machine and lose more potential cash — even if it means a surge in hardware and software sales.

[via gamesindustry.biz]

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User Comments (135)

MAB

#1

MAB said:

The fence sitters waiting for a price drop are the reason why the WiiU has low sales ;)

MAN1AC

#2

MAN1AC said:

I guess we'll be seeing new bundles soon then.
@MadAussieBloke
Its not that hard to find one under the official price these days. But I guess everyone has their buy in price.

gurtifus

#3

gurtifus said:

No problem, I'll be waiting until next year !
In any case, the price cut will occur at one time or another. It's mandatory in the life of any hardware.

Cohort

#4

Cohort said:

Actually I think that they were selling the GC at a loss as well until it picked up..

@gurtifus Actually I'd say that now is the time to buy as when the games start rolling out and as demand gets higher, you won't be seeing price cuts.

tsm7

#5

tsm7 said:

I thought their holiday approach would be bundles. Is the PS4 selling at a loss? I know producing the gamepad is expensive.

Fazermint

#6

Fazermint said:

This is what I've been saying all along. Don't need to be a genius to see that.

FullbringIchigo

#8

FullbringIchigo said:

people are still going on about the WiiU price? i think the price is just right for the system

still a few new bundles would help it along i'm sure like with Zelda Wind Waker HD or Sonic Lost World maybe

19Robb92

#9

19Robb92 said:

It's kind of rare to see a Nintendo system sell at a loss (even though the 3DS did as well for a while). But it's a pretty standard practice. Lets just hope the system starts selling better so that they can earn back the losses with software sales.

Samurai_Goroh

#10

Samurai_Goroh said:

I hope this doesn't refrain Nintendo from making a price cut this holiday season. Because they need a price cut, nevermind the competition, € 350 for the Premium is expensive in my books.

micronean

#11

micronean said:

The market will decide if there's a price cut or not. And, so far, the market is beginning to cut prices whether Nintendo wants it or not. They need to do whatever it takes to get sales this holiday, and, at least, stay within 30% of what Sony and Microsoft will do. If a price cut is what it takes, then it would be real stupid not to do it.

banacheck

#13

banacheck said:

tsm7
Actually the PS4 will be hardly selling at a loss, unlike the PS3, you'll find Sony statement if you look online.

The Wii U sells quite a bit lower than the RRP in the UK, this fall more than any other will be challenging for Nintendo. With the PS4 coming in at $399, & the Wii U price at $349, there is not a lot in it.

wario007

#14

wario007 said:

That's a lie!
PS4 is 100 times stronger and the price is higher for 50 dollars

wario007

#15

wario007 said:

Nintendo deceive us, keeps the old policy, and I think that this is your last console!
Wii U to the end of your life will not sell or the 10th million ...

Emblem

#16

Emblem said:

@banacheck Where did u read that from the official investors report, mind linking that? Last estimates were that xone and ps4 needed to sell 3games per unit. Its worth noting that x360 and ps3 made almost no profit on console units, ms made most if their money via Live which is the main reason sony have changed their psn service to include multiplayer.

datamonkey

#17

datamonkey said:

I still can't believe the Wii U costs so much to make.

The GPU/CPU must be cheap as chips these days seeing as it's 8 year old tech and touch screens are being made by the billions for hundreds of devices.

What exactly is costing £300+ to make this thing? Maybe Nintendo doesn't have as much buying power as I thought it did.

kyuubikid213

#18

kyuubikid213 said:

I don't see the issue with the price to be honest. It's still cheaper than the other next-gen consoles, has a completely unique controller, new and intuitive ways to play games without add-ons, it won't spy on you, the entire Wii library is available to you, you can transfer save data and purchases, MIIVERSE (enough said), it's got a great Internet Browser for a gaming system that's all the more accessible due to the new controller, High Definition games, a "friendlier" online community, still uses all of the Wii accessories and controllers, and will even be full of great Nintendo classics like Mario and Zelda.

For well under $400, that's a deal in my book.

MrGawain

#19

MrGawain said:

@datamonkey

It doesn't cost that to make- you have to take into account VAT (about £50), shipping (guessing a tenner a console), and profit for the retailer (£50-£70). I'm guessing it actually costs over £200 to produce.

ferthepoet

#21

ferthepoet said:

Their problem is that the gamepad adds too much to the cost of the console without adding too much to its appeal... that's why I've always said the gamepad was stupid idea, its too expensive for what it is.

banacheck

#22

banacheck said:

@Emblem Emblem said:
@banacheck Where did u read that from the official investors report, mind linking that? Last estimates were that xone and ps4 needed to sell 3games per unit. Its worth noting that x360 and ps3 made almost no profit on console units, ms made most if their money via Live which is the main reason sony have changed their psn service to include multiplayer.

Considering Sony lost $306.85 on every single low-end ($499) PS3 it sold, the PS4 is hardly selling at a loss unlike the PS3 did. Also it took Sony four years to start making a profit on the PS3 hardware. No Sonys charging for the multiplayer to offer a better online service, otherwise that would be impossible to do with a free online service, you got to love these fanboys.

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/155521-playtation-4-sony-announces-the-ps4-wont-be-sold-at-loss

Remember people you can only say good things about Nintendo, this is the fanboy way, especially when you post on forums.

NintendoLink

#24

NintendoLink said:

Bought a Wii U and 3ds XL today with MH3 (wii u), animal crossing and luigis mansion 2. awwww yeahhhh...

rjejr

#25

rjejr said:

The problem isnt the system selling at a loss, the problem is the system NOT selling. They already recalled the white $299 Basics in the US because nobody wanted to pay $299 for it, so the effectively increased the base price to $349, and people still aren't buying it. Sure they lose a few $ on every sale, but they make that back on games. They lose everything on every unit thats been sitting on a shelf since Christmas. They cant sell games without selling the system first, and its been proven that they aren't selling the systems at $349. Donkey Kong and a 10 yr. old HD port are not going to get that system selling at the current price, people expect a price drop.

Did Iwata give the go ahead on the 3DS price drop? People remember these things.

Conkers64

#26

Conkers64 said:

I'm unfortunately one of the "fence sitters," but historically I wait a year after a console is released to consider buying it. Since the price cut is unlikely, I will consider buying one this Holliday season if: new color or great bundle (new mario or zelda). I really do want one, I'm just not "there" yet.

Kodeen

#27

Kodeen said:

Deals are out there. I got my deluxe for slightly under $300 from an eBay whole seller due to low demand.

DePapier

#29

DePapier said:

@MadAussieBloke Yup. And people believe nobody wants the Wii U... There is a HUGE amount of interest in the Wii U behind all the hate, if MS and Sony screw up while Nintendo is on the rise I can guarantee you won't see Xbox and Playstation making another platform.

Falco

#30

Falco said:

Nintendo are being very stubborn on the price cut which did surprise me. There have been unofficial price cuts at amazon that's when I got mine. There's no point cutting the price officially until there is decent software to also back it up. There will be a price cut I'd say before Christmas, after it becomes apparent that Wind Waker HD and pikmin 3 are not enough to shift the console. Nintendo know all this.

DePapier

#32

DePapier said:

What is needed in my opinion isn't a price drop but a pricing restructure. I own the console, I won't complain on the price, but I think there needs to be a 300 Deluxe Wii U without neither Nintendo Land nor the Deluxe Digital Promotion.

For those interested, here are my arguments:
http://www.notenoughshaders.com/2013/07/01/opinion-a-suggestion-for-a-wii-u-pricing-restructure/

That way they'll actually be able to make game bundles other than Nintendo Land for 350 and bundles of games with accessories, such Wii Fit U on the hard drive with the Wii Balance Board and Fit Meter, for a maximum of 400.

TheAdza

#35

TheAdza said:

Can someone explain to me how a machine that produces this gen quality graphics, is basically a suped up Wii, which was in itself an upgraded Gamecube, is still costing so much to produce? I don't believe it is the Gamepad, because it doesn't have multitouch, it doesn't have analogue buttons or triggers, and its not really a very high resolution screen, nor is it huge. It's not a DVD or Bluray player, so there aren't any licencing fees. I just don't get why it's not profitable yet.

Being the Nintendo fan that I am, I can see the value in what it offers, but I'm not so biased that I can also see how with how many corners Nintendo have cut with the machine, or at least is perceived that way due to other consoles offering more features, that the asking price is just too much for the average or casual gamer, for the kind of tech specs it offers. A price cut is the only option, or at least up the amount of HDD for the same price. A Premium SKU Black Wii U with 500GB HDD with Nintendo Land and NSMBU built in instead of on a disc, that sounds like a better deal at the current RRP.

Spoony_Tech

#36

Spoony_Tech said:

I never thought there should be a price cut. I know the game pad is really a lot of the cost. Those that say remove the game pad are either trolling or not making a lot of sense. Without the game pad the system is not the same. Its the whole center focus of the machine. Can you say remove the Wii remotes. Doesn't work that way now stop saying that please. Give us the games and the sales will come!

SKTTR

#37

SKTTR said:

Wii U system price and games are just more expensive than in the Wii and Gamecube era.
I thought prices on previous systems were ok, but 59,99€ ~ 69,99€ for a new Wii U game is too much for me personally.. (as long as it's not a brandnew Zelda with a Gold WiimotePlus and CD soundtrack.)

Prices are too high now. If Nintendo struggles because of this (great games they already have), then I doubt the even more expensive Microstations and Playboxes that are released later this year will fare better.

Mahe

#38

Mahe said:

@DePapier A lot of reasonable people are suggesting that the Gamepad should be dropped out from Wii U console packages. Most people don't want it, most games don't make use of it, it raises the price of the Wii U unnecessarily and even Nintendo hasn't been able to properly support it.

It's time to get rid of the Gamepad to save the Wii U.

Warbeard

#39

Warbeard said:

People should really stop talking about this pricecut, and how the PS4 is only 50$ more (still a lot of money to some people) - it's actually a 100$ more, because you get a game with it (and expect new bundles this christmas), AND you get the 10% discount on the eShop for 2 years or what?

The fact that everyone is discussing a price-cut makes everyone WAIT for a pricecut - no sold machines therefore, making everything worse.
It's mindboggling how much everyone is hating on Nintendo

ferthepoet

#40

ferthepoet said:

@Warbeard

You know that many of the people that are calling for a price cut are actually Nintendo supporters who want to see the company do well and believe the price cut is needed for the system to sell..... no hating involved

XyVoX

#41

XyVoX said:

I think this just proves Nintendo have got this very wrong as by far the vast majority of people who want a Wii U but haven't purchased because they think its to expensive, i personally cant see how such Old Tech (well new tech that performs like old tech) add in a rubbish low resolution screen and terrible battery life AND your doing all that at a loss, sales proves the point its to expensive for what it is. This business model isn't going to work as it stands.

rjejr

#42

rjejr said:

@Mahe - Just out of curiosity, what do you do when you drop the Gamepad out of the package? Do you call it a Wii 2 or Wii 3 or Wii HD or keep it Wii U? You can't really keep it Wii U because the "U" represented that "you" can play on it while others watch tv. No Gamepad, no off-screen play for U.
And what do you package the console with, a Wiimote and nun-chuck for $60, further confusing the Wii owning crowd about the name, or a $50 Pro controller? Lets' say the Gamepad goes for $100, so you are only cutting the package price by $50. So you now have a $249 Basic and $299 Deluxe w/ Nintendo Land. But you also lose the selling point of the screen. Is a Wii 2 HD going to sell at that price any better than the Wii U is now?

It's easy to in hindsight how the Gamepad may have been a losing gimmick decision - Nintendo has already stated they started work on the Gamepad before the iPad conquered the world - but I don't see how removing it now would improve anything. The money for R&D has already been spent, and a lot of upcoming games are going to make use of it - Assassins Creed, Watch_Dogs etc.

At this point dropping the Wii U entirely and releasing a new console in 3 years (with a completely new name and Zelda at launch) would be a more logical choice than dropping the Gamepad now.

JayMiller1988

#43

JayMiller1988 said:

PS4 is $399 and already has a lot more interesting games for it listed.

Wii U has no new Zelda (coming out next year apparently) and no Metroid. Seriously, it peeves me off that we need 500 Mario's and Donkey Kong's.

I don't care too much about specs though that doesn't help the case for Nintendo. PS4 is going to be way more powerful (~4x) than PS3, while Wii U is barely (~1.5x) more powerful than a PS3.

Not to mention the lack of stable third-party support for Wii U which compounds it even more.

archlord

#44

archlord said:

Wouldn't cutting the game pad now make the majority of games unplayable; in addition, require an obvious system update? Every dev would have to release an update so the game pad wasn't required for current titles.

Dogpigfish

#45

Dogpigfish said:

I love the Wii U. It's not competing with MS or Sony. It's competing with low priced game software like Apple's offering. This is the problem for the average consumer. They already forked out thousands of dollars for touch devices. The big three devs see this problem and will need to change to survive. I think Nindi will come out on top, but I'm more concerned about the twin brothers not being compelling enough to be successful. I have all systems, but my Wii and Wii U simply get played more because they have lasting appeal. The other two are trade in consoles.

element187

#46

element187 said:

@wario007 Uhm 100? What are you smoking. Its only a 1.8 teraflop box.. the wii u is estimated (we don't know the absolute exact number) between 300-400 gigaflops.

the ps4 is only 3 to 4.5 the power of the Wii U... the ps3 was 180 gigaflops, so the ps4 is only 10x the power of the PS3.... the Wii U is easily 2 to 3 times the power of the PS3.

where are you getting your numbers from? You are only embarrassing yourself by making up "facts"

Dogpigfish

#47

Dogpigfish said:

I keep reading the competition's meaningless bullet points in people's remarks. These are non sensible. '4x more powerful' 'cable tv' 'region locked', nonsensible. You've managed to turn gaming into politics. Lets just have fun, right?

ultraraichu

#48

ultraraichu said:

Even though Nintendo don't have their own widely announced price cut, there are retail stores that still have discounts and specials on the system as well as the games. Weird how people hardy acknowledge discounts and always look at msrp.

Mahe

#49

Mahe said:

@rjejr What "selling point" is the Gamepad, exactly? The Wii U just did a historically terrible quarter, worse than even the Gamecube at its worst: http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2013/08/console-post-wii-u.html

There are plenty of options on how the Gamepad could be removed and the price lowered. One is to offer the "Basic" set without the Gamepad, with a Wiimote and Nunchuk that are massively cheaper to produce and massively more appealing to the general consumer, while keeping the Gamepad in the "Premium" version. However, the Wiimote NEEDS to be in at least some Wii U console packages. How can Nintendo be selling a console called "Wii" U without actually including a Wiimote in the package?

There are other possible cost-reduction measures as well. Drop the physical disc of Nintendoland and include it as pre-installed in Premium models. Start selling consoles at a BIGGER loss initially, so that production ramps up and economy of scale kicks in, driving production costs down.

This is much easier than building a completely new console, or struggling with the Gamepad causing poor sales for the Wii U now.

element187

#50

element187 said:

@JayMiller1988 the Wii U is alot stronger then you are giving it credit for.

Just look at Pikmin 3, its the first console game released that uses dynamic lighting. If the Wii U was only 1.5x the ps3 it wouldn't be able to render dynamic lighting while holding a stable frame rate at 30fps. Its at minimum 2.5x the power of the PS3... MK8 shows the system easily outclasses the PS3, heck even Pikmin 3 puts the Wii U out of the ps3's reach.

The ps3 is a 170-180gigaflop box. The PS4 is 1.8teraflops, it is 10x the power.

JayMiller1988

#51

JayMiller1988 said:

@element187

I've heard anywhere from "it's less powerful than PS3" to "it's 19x more powerful." Honestly I saw the "50% more powerful" figure used the most.

t3g

#52

t3g said:

Nintendo may not want to cut the price, but they may have to this holiday season to remain competitive. Most consoles are sold at a loss and make up the money in the software sales, but the software sales aren't doing so hot for the Wii U either.

Some companies like Ubisoft are viewing this holiday season as a make-or-break for the Wii U and if Nintendo still is stubborn with the price and sales are horrible, sadly more 3rd parties are going to jump ship.

Wanderlei

#53

Wanderlei said:

You have to wonder how much Sony are gonna suffer selling the ps4 at its price, which they obviously did to under cut Microsoft. They lost $8 billion on the ps3, to put in to perspective it is more than their ps1 and ps2 profits combined.

ferthepoet

#54

ferthepoet said:

@Wanderlei

I think Sony is being smarter this time, I don't think PS4 costs as much to make as the PS3 as it uses several standard pc components which are cheaper, plus they copied Microsoft trick of making their money back by charging for online

Doma

#55

Doma said:

I was a "fence sitter" until E3... then all interest was gone. Ps4 will take priority now.

My 3ds alone will have to do, for Nintendo games. So instead of a price drop, i'd rather they discontinue and reallocate assets.

rmeyer

#56

rmeyer said:

300 bucks is a more realistic price for the Wii u. Sell it at a loss this holiday season, right now Nintendo needs more adopters and can't always be afraid of risk.

Shadowkiller97

#57

Shadowkiller97 said:

@TheAdza You're not giving the Gamepad enough credit. Sure, it is not a capacitve multitouch screen, but it is one of the best resistive touch screens I have come across. Also, do not forget it has built-in NFC. I think people forget about that because it has not been utilized by anything as of yet. Even low-end non-HD smartphones cost around $400 and this is an entire gaming console!

But the biggest feature of the Gamepad that everyone keeps forgetting is the fact that it can wirelessy receive a video feed with virtually no latency. And it does this on its own bandwidth. All of the alternatives (Smartglass, Vita Remote Play, etc.) use local Wi-Fi to do the streaming, which means that if you are using the Wi-Fi for anything else (downloading, other users, etc.) it will affect your latency. And lets not forget that the only way to make the Gamepad be utilized by anyone is to include it in every system. If it becomes an optional accessory, very few games would add the features to use it, because developers/publishers would see it as an easy cost to cut.

C7_

#58

C7_ said:

Anyone who expected Nintendo to do a price cut just doesn't understand that lower prices don't sell consoles. Games sell consoles. There would be no reason to do a price cut because there's a drought in games for the system that is only now starting to be fixed. If they did a price cut only the very few people on the fence who were paying attention would bother; everyone else would still see it as a console with no games.

And we've known they're selling at a loss, but it's a very small loss that's made up by a single sale of a retail game. This isn't exactly news, and it doesn't stop being sold at a loss until years after release when the tech gets cheaper.

banacheck

#59

banacheck said:

Wanderlei
They lost $8 billion on the ps3, to put in to perspective it is more than their ps1 and ps2 profits combined.

8 billion where did you get that from? because i can tell you now the PS3 didn't lose Sony 8 billion.

jrob23

#60

jrob23 said:

People..there is not Nintendo executive that said this. I have searched the web for confirmation and there is none. It is someone from an obscure site that claims this with no quotes, no citation, no video..no nothing. At launch the Wii U needed a piece of software to be sold in order for it to be profitable. Since you can't play the system without a game. I imagine it was always profitable. With economies of scale I would think that by now, you no longer need to buy a game.

The reason for the large loss on Wii related operations is because they are ramping up marketing efforts, hiring more developers, and since they aren't selling well they aren't recouping this. I would bet anything that by years end you will stop seeing this headline baiting articles

Doma

#61

Doma said:

@Dogpigfish “I love the Wii U. It's not competing with Apple's offerings. It's competing with low priced game software available on the 360/PS3 (and failing).”

Bizarre thing to say, so i fixed that sentence for you.

AJWolfTill

#62

AJWolfTill said:

I don't think the price itself is unreasonable, but the original conversion rates between America and Europe/UK were ridiculous!
$350 is not £300 :P

yvanjean

#63

yvanjean said:

My local bestbuy are selling WiiU Deluxe edition and a free copy of Pikmin 3. That's should hopefully get some of the people on the fence to pick up a system.

Samurai_Goroh

#64

Samurai_Goroh said:

@AJWolfTill Nor $350 are €350 either. We're always ripped-off like this. But what I really want is a €300 White Premium Pack. That's what I'm waiting for, Nintendo.

mike_intv

#66

mike_intv said:

What I find interesting is that we have little detail on who said this, when they an unnamed source that we know little about — "a Nintendo representative" — is being treated as an all-knowing oracle.

While I don't doubt that the story is highly likely, I would love to know how much this person knows (or does not know). I at least would like to know whether they are with NCL, NoA or NoE. That might give an indication as to how much they know (or don't know).

.

GN004Nadleeh

#67

GN004Nadleeh said:

there is still some hope for the wii u this year. I agree that if better games bundled with the black system but still keeping the $349 price is important. also the xbox one has half of its features locked unless you pay for live and the playstation 4 will probably be sold out so most will choose wii u because they want something new this year anyways. now if only they could have gotten gta v on the wii u

baba_944

#69

baba_944 said:

The Wii U does not need a price cut, UK already cut it so low and yet it still does poorly. All the Wii U really needs this holiday season and beyond are fantastic third party titles (e.g Ducktales Remastered) and first party titles (e.g Pikmin 3), and bundles. Also advertise, advertise, advertise. Take a page from the GCN or 3DS (preferably GCN) commercials.

Rafie

#70

Rafie said:

@element187 "MK8 shows the system easily outclasses the PS3, heck even Pikmin 3 puts the Wii U out of the ps3's reach."

No it doesn't. Not at all. While Pikmin 3 looks beautiful and plays wonderfully, it still doesn't look any more than what the PS3 can do. MK8 is a poor example to use when you're talking about an entire library of PS3 games claiming that this one game looks better than any game the PS3 has put out. That's grasping. Games like God of War 3 and The Last Of Us graphically easily puts anything the Wii U has done thus far to shame.

Now that's not to say that Wii U won't produce games that look better than the current gen, but it hasn't yet. There are still tons of games that look better than what the Wii U has put out from both MS and Sony. I've said this before and I'll say it again...when we games like Monolith, Metroid, and Zelda showcase the Wii U's potential...we'll be able to see that difference of power. Until that time, I just don't see any difference that what the current gen consoles can do. I'm just keeping it honest. I have Pikmin 3 btw and it does look phenomenal.

tom_q

#72

tom_q said:

I just got the premium bundle pre-owned today at cash converters minus nintendoland but with tekken tag tournament, a wii u pro controller, a wiimote and motionplus for £170. I feel kind of bad for my money not helping nintendo but I could not resist the offer.

HolyDiver

#73

HolyDiver said:

At launch Nintendo made money after selling one game: http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/11/wii_u_becomes_profitable_with_one_game_sale. So they can't be selling the console for that much of a loss. Look at the quote in that article:

"In the end, the business model is still to drive the install base of hardware, and then to drive a strong tie ratio with all of the other software and experiences for the consumer. And if we're able to do that, then we will create significant profit for the company."

I'm sure most people buying their Wii Us throughout the end of this year will also be getting 2 or more of the great new games and additional accessories to go with it. So it's not like Nintendo would be losing out on a lot of money if they cut the price of the console.

hydeks

#74

hydeks said:

everyone is always wanting cool products for cheap, stop being so freakin cheap and buy a wii u already lol

I own a Wii U, and the price is definitely worth it for the system, especially compared to 360 prices still. I suggest to people: buy Zombi U bundle, definitely a bargain.

AVahne

#75

AVahne said:

Makes sense.
But really, the ONLY console that needs a price drop, the only one where a price drop could help its sales, is Vita. More games will NEVER save that thing, ONLY lower pricing can. And I say this because right now it has a very good library, and it's still dying a slow death.
Wii U, on the other hand, has Mario Kart 8 coming.

AVahne

#76

AVahne said:

@HolyDiver
They already confirmed that that quote is false. Something about misspeaking or the Internet misinterpreting what they say.

element187

#77

element187 said:

@Rafie incorrect sir, just look at the PS3's best looking game, TLOU. The PS3 can hardly even run it... in fact it never goes above 28fps... any time combat comes along it instantly drops to the low 20's in frame rate. Pikmin 3 looks far superior and actually does use dynamic lighting and the Wii U runs at a locked 30fps... TLOU uses prebaked lighting and the ps3 can still barely play it.

The ps3 can hardly run its own games, let alone the visually superior games on the Wii U, that the Wii U btw runs it a much higher frame rate....there is not a single game on the PS3 or x360 that you can name that even comes close to Mario Kart 8 running at 60fps... the ps360 would struggle to run Mario Kart 8 above 20fps, let alone come close to 60fps, split screen and rendering a second screen.

Look at ps3 games that run at 60fps, Burnout Paradise. The game looks janky as all get out. The hardware was not designed to be running dx9 level of effects at 720p, hence why the majority of games on the PS360 run at sub hd resolutions at slideshow frame rates.

Kirk

#78

Kirk said:

Well of course it's still being sold at a loss.

It was being sold at a loss from day one and nothing has changed.

Until Nintendo start creating new Wii U models with cheaper components and stuff there's not really any way they'd suddenly be making money on each unit.

Still, it only takes the sale of one Nintendo game with each console to make turn a profit on each Wii U so it's not like Nintendo is ever going to lose money on each system sold.

Regardless of the situation I still believe a price cut is absolutely necessary in the near future, along with every single other thing Nintendo is doing, or isn't doing but should be doing, to try and increase Wii U sales.

Such is business.

element187

#79

element187 said:

@JayMiller1988 If that were the case we wouldn't have so many games coming out for the system at 60fps..... I love my ps3, but the only games that ran at 60fps looked like a hot mess... Ninty is dropping titles that look amazing, and running at such a high frame rate, that it just isn't possible that its just on par with a ps3.... My old PC is roughly a 400 gigaflop system and played all of the multiplats from last gen at 60fps @ 720p. The Wii U has to be in that ballpark to run MK8, W101, Bayo2, Smash, SM3DW all at 60fps... PS3/x360 were ~175 gigaflop systems

TreonsRealm

#81

TreonsRealm said:

This double standard thing has gotten a bit out of control. Let's put all of the pissing and moaning about Nintendo's Wii U pricing in perspective for a moment.

  • The Xbox 360 (A machine that is nearly 8 YEARS OLD!) still sells its basic 4GB version for $200. The versions that most Gamer's would buy average about $300. The $100 version REQUIRES a 2 yr Xbox Live subscription adding a minimum of $120 totaling $220.
  • The PlayStation 3 (Out for nearly 7 years) still averages around $300 with some bundles going as low as $250.

These prices are current and don't include things such as used or store specific deals but they show that Nintendo's pricing is actually well in line with what they are offering (anyone who has spent actual time with the machine and doesn't already hate Nintendo can confirm this). The issue has not been pricing but games, always has been and always will be and this will change in the fall. Personally, I think people should be complaining that Sony and Microsoft still have the prices on their last generation consoles so high considering their extreme age.

Microsoft launched the 360 with 2 different models for $300 and $400 and their 2 current models sell for $200 and $300! That is only a $100 difference in 8 YEARS! I realize that the bundles and configurations have changed to supposedly justify the cost but anyone familiar with technology knows that these machines should both be much cheaper at this point in their life.

The Wii U has a lot going on from a technology standpoint, many developers who are actually making games for the thing have stated this repeatedly. ACTUAL Wii U developers have stated on multiple occasions that the Wii U is more powerful than PS3 and 360. Ironically, it's always the developers who are NOT making games for the thing that state it is not powerful enough (always coming off as an excuse). IF Nintendo were to introduce a price cut this fall to assist their own software lineup, I believe it would be no more than $50 and only on the Black model (to $300). It's far more likely that, much like PS3 and 360, Nintendo will simply start bundling more games/accessories with the machine at the same cost. A Nintendo Land/Super Mario Wii U bundle with Wii Remote & Nunchuk included for $350 would be very attractive next to their strong first party lineup this fall.

HolyDiver

#82

HolyDiver said:

The initial cost to really own a Wii U is more than the $350 price of the console. Add a game, another controller especially if you didn't have a Wii (my case), and maybe even an external hard drive and the cost keeps going up and up and up.

BTW, I'm not saying they should drop the price so that I can go out and buy one. I've already bought the console, 1 pro controller, 2 wii remote+, 2 nunchuks, 1 2TB external hard drive, NSMBU, ZombiU, Lego City, MH3U, Game & Wario, Pikmin 3, and several eshop only games all since the release of the Wii U. I think every penny I've spent was well worth it so far. I've barely touched my 360 since I've owned the Wii U.

However as much fun as I'm having on the Wii U I can't convince a single one of my friends to go out and buy it. They see Wii U at $350 with a 32GB hard drive and the PS4 at $400 and say they'd rather have the PS4. I just think somehow reducing the price either by actually dropping it or by including additional games/accessories would convince a lot more people to buy it. As excited as I am for the new Mario and Donkey Kong I don't think they're going to make people choose a Wii U over PS4.

Rafie

#83

Rafie said:

@element187 I beg to differ on that. I have The Last Of Us and that game runs just fine on my PS3. Now I hear you mentioning a lot of specs here (which I am knowledgeable on), however I don't use them because it really doesn't matter much. Just like those using the power of the PS4 and Xbox One against the Wii U. It doesn't matter as long as the games looks and plays good.

The PS3 runs their games just fine. Why do you keep insisting that just because most games on a 7 year old console run at 30 fps. The games still run great on that system and on the 360. There are games like Battlefield that do run at 60 fps that look and play remarkable. You're crazy if you think that Mario Kart 8 looks better than anything the PS3 and 360 can do, or for better choice of words....have done recently. I mentioned nothing about gameplay. I merely speaking about how it looks. We haven't even seen the final product of MK8 yet and you're already saying it's better than anything the previous generation has done. Still grasping on that one. I'll say let's wait until MK8 drops before we can proclaim it the "victor" here.

Pikmin 3 doesn't look "far" superior as you're putting it. Allow me some time and I can do side by sides and we can objectively look together for an unbiased notion of which game between Pikmin 3 and TLOU actually looks better. To me there's no competition. TLOU graphically blows Pikmin 3 out of the water. I can admit that Pikmin 3's controls are more fluid and even game play is on point. I'm just not conceding yet to the fact that it looks better.

Risingelement

#84

Risingelement said:

I would honestly get a Wii U if they weren't sold at 420 USD in my country, as much as I really want to get it at 350 USD.

Davidiam007

#85

Davidiam007 said:

@tsm7 ps4 is selling at a major loss and they had to cut the camera to lower the cost, because of that some of the controller functions were lost unless you purchase the camera separately. Gddr5 memory is not cheap.

Relias

#87

Relias said:

Actually a good counter for this is Reggie saying if they sold one piece of software.. it would be profitable.. and since most Wii U owners have at least Mario Bros U.. Or Game and Warrior.. or maybe now Pikmen 3 and Luigi Expansion.. all of which I think they bought or will buy.. the Wii U is not going at a cost for Nintendo.. and that is not including the one fourth they get off every licensed piece of software sold..

link53

#88

link53 said:

@tom_q
Why feel bad about not helping Nintendo? Nintendo like any other company only cares about getting your money. So keep on looking out for what gives you the best deal and if that deal is for used then buy it.

SCAR392

#89

SCAR392 said:

It's ludricous what people think.
I saw a comment saying Wii U is 8 year old tech, and that it's weak. Get informed.

The Wii U has 2 year old tech AT MOST to run its graphics and stuff. If you think the Wii U is any older than that, then so is the Xbox One and PS4. It's not like the PS4 is a magical machine for $50 more.

The Wii U doesn't even sell for that much of a loss. It's like $5. It's worth what you're paying, but there is no software. It's fine if you're waiting for games, but don't call the system weak, old, etc. assumptions, because it shows you don't know crap.

The system only sells for less at retail. Nintendo's official price hasn't changed a penny. No one has a choice but to ride out the Wii U until Xbox One and PS4, because those consoles don't launch until later in the year.
Just sit back and watch what happens.

It's unbelievable how uninformed, impatient, and trollish people are. Just give it a break.

SCAR392

#90

SCAR392 said:

@Rafie
The last level(of Pikmin 3) has a background that spans at pretty far. Those are types of things people are trolling the Wii U can't do, but there's already proof the Wii U can do up to date graphics no problem just looking at recenr games that are out.
Graphics can be really subjective sometimes. I do think the Wii U shows graphics more clear. The Wii U has an easier time pushing more frames per second, textures, polygons, and particle effects.

The only thing I think Wii U won't be able to do is 4K, and surround sound over 7.2, and that will be perfectly fine for the next 4-5 years.

Mahe

#91

Mahe said:

@DePapier I also have a Wii U, and I dislike the Gamepad. I would rather have had a better, cheaper system without it.

Rafie

#92

Rafie said:

@SCAR392 What's up Scar! Long time no hear. I agree with you on that. Most definitely. The Wii U reminds me of how clean the GC's graphics were. Especially compared to the PS2. I made that argument a least over 300 times against Sony fanboys. I know the Wii U is very capable. I was just saying that, I myself, haven't seen anything the Wii U has put out (games wise on a graphical note) that made it leap years ahead of the PS3 and 360.

You pretty much explained it perfectly without having to down play the others. Thanks for the explanation man.

JuanitoShet

#93

JuanitoShet said:

I'm with Nintendo. I'm a firm believer that the Wii U does not need a price cut; all it needs is the software. And the ball has been pushed, because Pikmin 3 was just released, and this is where the steady stream of great games will start. Nintendo themselves said it, and there's not reason to doubt them.

I sure don't.

SCAR392

#95

SCAR392 said:

There's no choice but to wait, so it's not that big of a deal.
Miiverse will be rivalling Xbox One and PS4's social fronts. MarioKart TV, gamepics, etc. are possible.
COD Ghosts is gonna be the same version as other consoles with the GamePad and Wii remote.
I already know the Wii U can run Crimson Dragon, that's on Xbox One. Pikmin 3 can already show proof of that.

Overall, there is already proof that Wii U is capable. It came out ASAP, because the Wii was falling and needed something out quick.

The Wii U was released 1 year before PS4 and Xbox One. According to history, one year hardly makes a difference. PS2 came out a year before its competitors(2 after Dreamcast). I think the Wii U will be closer to it's competitors than the PS2 was back in 6th gen.

DePapier

#96

DePapier said:

@Mahe First: you bought the system, why are you complaining?
Second: I don't understand how as a Wii U owner you cannot experience the value of the GamePad. You might want to resell it once games using two GamePads start rolling.

Again, sent with my GamePad.

DePapier

#97

DePapier said:

I really want to see what happens this holiday season. Already from February to now, mentalities have changed rather positively — February was a nightmare for Wii U owners/supporters. If the PS4 and the Xbox One have similar issues at launch than the Wii U, and gamers call for a price drop, I'd really want to know how Sony and Microsoft will react.

Mahe

#98

Mahe said:

@DePapier Because Wii U can play games without the Gamepad. New SMB U, Trine 2, Virtual Console games, Miiverse... luckily, you mostly don't need to use the Gamepad if you don't want to. But Nintendo needs to advertise this fact more, I don't think a lot of people are properly aware of it, and think the Gamepad is required for all games. On that note, the Gamepad also shouldn't be required on apps like Netflix or the eShop.

JimLad

#99

JimLad said:

I'd say do hold your breath. Either there'll be a price drop or this thing will tank fast.

KnightRider666

#100

KnightRider666 said:

I had a deluxe pre-ordered last year, but I had to cancel it because I lost my job. I was planning on getting one this year if there was a sale on black friday, but I can't afford it now because I need to fix my car and find a new apartment. I guess it just isn't my time to get one yet. Maybe next holiday season:/

LDXD

#101

LDXD said:

@Rafie what up rafie? Even though I do respect your opinion you know I have to disagree with you on the last of us and god of war 3 comment
I've had last of us and still own gow3 , own pikman and believe me pikman IMO looks and plays smoother to me, hell last of us struggles to get 30 fps
Both pikman and mk8 look more impressive than anything I've seen or played on my ps3 and so it should be it is a next gen system after all
@KnightRider666 man that sucks, maybe next year will be a better year for you, I know how you feel though a few years back I blew my transmission my warranty on my truck just expired my roof started leaking and work cut my hrs lol I woke up that Christmas morning to water dripping in my face I guess when it rains it pours

LDXD

#102

LDXD said:

@JimLad a price cut won't do much if the games aren't there so far Nintendo has pikman 3 and that's pretty much it right now I can't think of any other system selling games
Once the exclusives start rolling in the Wii u will be just fine and Nintendo knows this, so please don't hold your breath

KnightRider666

#103

KnightRider666 said:

@LDXD: Pretty much sums it up for me. I need brakes, rotors, a new clutch, flywheel, intermediate steering shaft, and some other stuff. I don't even have a security deposit for another place. Really sucks dude.

TheAdza

#105

TheAdza said:

@Shadowkiller97 hey you don't have to sell me on the idea. I love it. It's the average person who hasn't bought the Wii U that takes a look at it, and only sees what it can't do instead of what it can. And the list of what it can't do compared to other consoles is pretty extensive. Pinch to zoom is the standard motion for touchscreen displays now. I don't know what place it has in games, and i am used to not using it when I use the Gamepad as a browsing device, but anyone who tries the Gamepad like that, the first thing they do is try to to pinch to zoom and it doesn't work.

Emblem

#106

Emblem said:

@banacheck Lol i not a fan boy so no need to get defensive, my main gaming device is and always has been my pc though i own a PS3, Xbox, PSP, 3DS and Wii U for game and experience variety.

Now onto that article, i've seen it before and that statement is very vague, it confirms it will be sold at a loss but just not as big as the PS3 launch. Without seeing the investors report which is legally binding so can't be fabricated we have no way of know how much of a loss it will be sold at.

If you look at the MS and Sony gaming divisions profits current generation you will see that in comparison to games and services, profit from unit sales were largely inconsequential. Google Sony gaming division profit/loss for any year since PS3 has been out then compare them to MS's, then look at how much came from onlive subs alone and then tell me Sony didn't think MS had a good idea when they decided to charge for multiplayer.

Its a sound business idea especially since imo PSN+ is worth the price anyway due to all the deals they do and 'free' stuff, but don't get it confused its purely a business move and they could have fronted the bill themselves rather than pass it on the the gamers IF they were in the financial position to do so.

RollingFishays

#107

RollingFishays said:

when the PS4 releases with all of it's features for only $50 more I don't think a lot of people will see the value of a wii u. If they cut it by $50 to $75 maybe, but aside from nintendo die hards (like me) I don't think a lot of people would be willing to pay it. I want to buy one, but $350 (technically more like $400 with a game) is too much for me right now v.v

Obito_Tennyson

#108

Obito_Tennyson said:

Go Nintendo, show off Microsoft , Sony, and anyone else who tries to take your sales! You can do it! On total, my family spent about $2260+ just on the hardware. SNES, Game Boy Colors, Game Boy Advances, DS Lites, DSi, DSi XLs, 3DSs, 3DS XL, Wii, and Wii U! I couldn't even count how much we paid for Nintendo software in our lifetimes!

RollingFishays

#109

RollingFishays said:

I also don't know where people are seeing all of these wonderful deals on amazon. The only ones I see are like $20 off and the shipping takes a big chunk out of those small savings

Rafie

#110

Rafie said:

@LDXD What's been good man! Everything my way is pretty good so far. Just playing Dragon's Crown and waiting for GTAV at the moment. Anyway, while I do respect your opinion as well, I will respectfully disagree. Pikmin and MK8 does look impressive, but to say they look more impressive than anything the PS3 and 360 does is a bit farfetched. MK8 is cartoonish with out any real depth. At least not as much as games like GOW3 and such graphically. I have all of the games mentioned as well and I can tell you that I have no probs with my copy of TLOU. I guess we'll be spinning our wheels going back and forth about this. I'll just agree to disagree here. I do believe the Wii U is more than capable of pushing the graphics past the best looking games of the current generation. I just haven't seen it yet. I'm waiting for that Monolith and Zelda (not WWHD). Just my personal opinion.

LDXD

#111

LDXD said:

@Rafie yeah man just got dragons crown haven't played it yet though also waiting for gta5 and no doubt the Almighty dark souls 2 between all that pikman 3 the upcoming Wii u games and the freaking ps4 at the end of the year also all the games on the shop duck tales shovel knight and a bunch more I'm gonna be broke and busy lol, I'm pretty excited to see what that new Zelda is going to be like also getting WWHD mainly because I don't have the original anymore got jacked back in the day

Rafie

#112

Rafie said:

@LDXD Man you need to stop talking here and get on that game! LOL It's a beautiful game. I honestly could have seen this on the Wii U. I don't know what Atlus was thinking keeping this exclusive to Sony, but whatever. Yeah I have WWHD preordered (paid off) already. I never played the original on the GC. One of my regrets that I will get to redeem myself. Also I'm REALLY looking forward to the new Zelda game and Monolith X. Now those games will graphically be on par with both the PS4 and Xbox One. No doubt about that. It will also probably play better than most 1st party titles on other platforms. I'm stoked for Nintendo right now. From now until next year shows promising titles to hit.

Caryslan

#113

Caryslan said:

@Wanderlei I don't think Sony is going to lose as much money as you think since they are not going for the Super Computer mindset that they had with the PS3, and the system does not have a Tablet Controller or a Kinect that raises the price of the console.. I'm not even sure the hardware is the most powerful this generation.

It sound like they are going with the approach that worked with the PS1 and PS2. The PS4 is a box that plays games and has some multimedia features to boot. They don't seem to be throwing everything into the box like with the PS3.

So, the cost may be cheaper then many people think. Not forcing the system to be tied to a tablet or a camera that's included in the box gives Sony a bit more wiggle room to drop price as needed.

LDXD

#114

LDXD said:

@Rafie lol yeah been playing pikman 3 the past few days going to play dragons crown with a few buds soon I'm gonna save that one for couch co-op looks really good
Man you should love WW loved it the first time I played it, I wish I hadn't played it yet lol
I think I've counted around 11 retail games for the Wii u alone that I will get day one from now until around mk8 and who knows what else they will come out with its like I can't catch up I don't want a huge back log of games lol maybe I should take your advice haha

SCAR392

#115

SCAR392 said:

@Rafie
You're gonna like Wind Waker HD for sure. I bought the game on GCN the day it came out, and I completed it 100% 5 or 6 times throughout the years.
Since I've beaten it so many times, I don't feel inclined to buy it as much as many others are.

I'll get it if a deal shows up or there's something they aren't telling us that they've added.

GreatPlayer

#116

GreatPlayer said:

Never realise that the cost of the gamepad is so high. It is sad to see that Nintendo thinks the gamepad is only for showing maps, making weapon selection faster, etc (as shown in the UK ad)...

I buy Wii U because of its non-violent games. When I had a PS2 every game in the consoles are sorta the same - 3D violent games that splash blood everywhere... I felt like I was playing the same kind of games all the times.

I am quite happy with the lineup of upcoming games. Sonic the Lost World will be a must-buy for me. Sonic always give me an adrenaline rush that I cannot find it anywhere. I will probably buy Raymen Legends too. I sorta feel like Nintendo cannot rely only on first-party games... gamers want more variety of games. I do not think I can survive with Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong only... I enjoy third-party DLCs a lot on Wii U.

Wanderlei

#117

Wanderlei said:

@Caryslan Except them selling the ps4 cheaper negates the machine being slightly cheaper than the ps3 was.

They made the ridiculous move of using expensive GDDR5 for system memory.It works great in a highly parallel system like a GPU, it runs like poopoocacadoodies in a highly linear system like a CPU. Unless Sony has literally made the biggest breakthrough in CPU/RAM architecture in the last 20 years then using GDDR5 RAM as system RAM is more bad than good.

Their main gimmick 'lets play' game streaming which will only have appeal to certain subset of gamers, which is also just a side feature of the microsoft machine.

Then there is their other gimmick of Gaikai which cost them $380 million. Then the costs off all the servers, etc etc. This one could be a very expensive white elephant for them with most of the world still using DSL. Not sure gamers want input lag in single player games.

ferthepoet

#118

ferthepoet said:

@Wanderlei

However the advantage of the PS4 over the PS3 is that it uses many standard pc components which now may be high end but would become cheaper as they become standards for pcs

Sir_Deadly

#120

Sir_Deadly said:

@JayMiller1988 Your post about PS4 having more interesting games is more opinion than fact. I've only found 1 interesting game for me on the ps4 vs the 5 or soo games i am interested in on the Wii U. Plus I heard the Wii U was 2x as more powerful or 50% however u wanna put it. Saying PS4 is 4x more powerful than the PS3 is nothing to brag about sense your saying its only 2x or 2.5x more powerful than the wii u!

Sir_Deadly

#121

Sir_Deadly said:

Let me say this about graphics aspect you guys are talking about. The only game i have seen so far to maybe outshine TLOU is Shadows Of The Eternal and it hasn't even come out and idk if it will. Its on kickstarter and if they reach there goal, i would say its a game to give PS3 a run for its money. It uses the Crytech engine and if u would like to see gameplay running on Wii U they have some up on youtube. I really hate when people get to talking bout specs and power and all this crap. For me, its games that make a console and if they look good and run good.

Rafie

#123

Rafie said:

@SCAR392 Man it's one of my gamer's life regrets that I didn't play it on the GC. I was too caught up on Mario Kart Double Dash. With a few other games. At that time I was still juggling games between all 3 platforms. Well you really enjoyed the game to beat it 5-6 times. LOL I'm looking to just get the game and beat it.

@LDXD Yeah the Wii U titles are enticing to say the least. The games that I'm picking up after Pikmin on launch day will be W101, WWHD, DKC:TF, SMB3D, Bayonetta 2, Super Smash, MK8 so far outside of any new Zelda, Monolith, and Metroid game. Dude I have a huge back log of games. Between the PS3 and Wii U, I'm totally backed up. I've been switching between Pikmin 3 and Dragon's Crown. LOL

unrandomsam

#124

unrandomsam said:

If you are selling something at a loss then logic dictates you don't want to sell that many until it is no longer the case.

unrandomsam

#125

unrandomsam said:

@ferthepoet They are not using high end pc components at all. The CPU core is from AMD's cheapest line (It is the follow on to AMD's cheapest netbook chip). It is using a lower end of midrange GPU and shared RAM (That is designed for video cards so is very high latency). They are not even using a SSD (That could make all the difference and not cost that much for the benefits it would provide. Seen as it would be required you could do things that are not done with PC games at least currently). Or if they had used 32GB of ram then they could load the whole disk into ram first that would make a difference. Or if they had used the high end AMD core. (They found out that developers cannot be bothered using stuff properly I guess with the PS3. The SPU's could do some great things but hardly anyone used them even less used them well).

unrandomsam

#127

unrandomsam said:

@Assassin87 Last of Us was impressive for the first level then it went down hill. I didn't enjoy it really was actively bored for far too much of it. If you are going to try and compete on graphics you need to at least make sure the whole games is at the same kind of quality.

The only way to play that game is to throw commercial considerations out of the window (Like Sega did with Shenmue).

It might have been better in full VR 3D (Oculus Rift with the treadmill like thing for it). I think those type of things might be great on that system.

Sir_Deadly

#128

Sir_Deadly said:

@unrandomsam I didnt get that far into because i got bored. I only saw what i played at the beginning of the game. So that's what I compared it to. The point of the argument was that the early games of the Nintendo Wii U cant really compare to the PS3 games because developers have gotten to where they know how the technology works. I was saying that TLOU looks great but the Wii U games that are out now, haven't really set that standard and aren't showing what the console can really do. But I see what u mean as I mentioned myself graphics aren't everything on its own. I think Shadows of the Eternal is pretty impressive compared to TLOU.

Henmii

#130

Henmii said:

"Don't hold your breath for a price cut"

That's what they said about the 3DS! I'll wait and see!!

dimi

#131

dimi said:

I agree...cut the gamepad, sell it for 100$. Make some wii mote games.... Otherwise its done...

GreatPlayer

#132

GreatPlayer said:

Games, games and games... More third-party games, please... God Hand, Fatal Frame, more Sonic, Silent Hill... I don't think Wii U can compete solely on price. It is not that much cheaper than PS4. But more third-party exclusive games will help!

Luffy

#133

Luffy said:

my cousin is a big mario fan and just came to visit me. Exact quote "wait Wii U is not wii?"

I was like omg still people think like this?

he was watching me browse the net on the tv via game pad and was just so lost and confused.

unrandomsam

#134

unrandomsam said:

@Assassin87 I forced myself through TLOU thinking it was going to get better. (I did like the way it looked for the first level). There is basically no PS3 games that even use it properly. (Certainly anything on PS3 and 360). Using it to its full capacity would be like making a theoretical best possible Saturn game.

I would rather Nintendo wait to release the best franchises but it is not the way to make the most money sadly. (If they play tested the New Super Mario games for some years prior to releasing them perhaps testing some of it using stuff like Warioland and Kirby. They might actually make something better than what they already did). Maybe occasionally make something without any regard to cost like Sega used to. (Shenmue).

jmularczyk

#135

jmularczyk said:

Our family loves the Wii U...even the Nintendo Land Game. To us it's the best system that Nintendo has ever made hands down. We have the 32gb version and it's nearly full. I don't have any problem adding an external drive when full. We have 12 games on disk and nearly every download only game that has been released for the system as well as 75% of the virtual console releases, all the demos as well as Luigi U, Wario download versions. I would guess that's nearly 30-40 games on the system itself. I would bet that everyone complaining about the size on the 32gb version haven't come close to filling it.

In my opinion the system isn't selling because of 2 main reasons. 1. To much competition from alternative forms of gaming and entertainment (Ipad, Android, DVR, On Demand etc.) 2. The worst name possible for the gaming system without a proper advertising blitz. Wii 2 or Nintendo 6 would have been better names. They could have even named it Dual Nintendo. They had the U Draw thing for the Wii that I think even confused things more.

Months ago I would have been on the "no games" bandwagon but I'm satisfied with the amount of content now. There is more than enough right now. (Not to say that I'm not wanting more.)

We are disappointed that there isn't a HD MLB game. Also I'd like to see a battle type game utilizing the same directional control found in the Metroid Game within Nintendo Land. That for me has been the best use of the dual screens. I hope something is in the works.

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