News Article

Round Table: Let's Talk About the 2DS and Wii U Price Cut

Posted by Thomas Whitehead

It's going to be a bumpy ride

This week certainly wasn't dull in the world of Nintendo. To the surprise of everyone, Nintendo announced the 2DS, a member of the 3DS family that abandons the clamshell design and, yes, the 3D effect. The initial reaction was generally of bemusement, yet Nintendo's target audience of young children and uncertain 3DS-adopters is arguably perfectly suited to the device. The other big news, aside from release dates and an attractive hardware bundle for The Wind Waker HD, was a formal price cut for the Wii U. Long expected but frequently denied, the $50 price cut in North America will also have its equivalent in Europe, and the issue to consider is the scale of the impact the new price point will or will not have on Wii U sales.

We've provided some reaction and coverage already, but that won't stop us from having a debate in serious, or occasionally ridiculous, terms. Joining features editor Tom Whitehead for a chat about the peculiar week that was are news editor Andy Green, purexbox.com editor-in-chief Ken Barnes, and Nintendo Life contributors Ron DelVillano, Stephen Kelly, Morgan Sleeper, Gaz Plant, Marcel van Duyn.


Tom Whitehead: Let's get this show started. Please introduce yourselves to our lovely readers.

Stephen Kelly: Hello, I'm an American named Stephen. I am friend to Waluigi and I write reviews.

Ken Barnes: Hi there, I'm Ken and I'm the Editor-in-Chief of PureXbox.com.

Andy Green: I'm Andy, I'm News Editor and I've just dragged myself away from Animal Crossing!

Morgan Sleeper: Hey everybody, I'm Morgan! I write reviews and I may or may not be playing Animal Crossing one-handed as we type.

Gaz Plant: 'Hoy Small Fry! I'm Gaz, contributor for Nintendo Life. I should be playing Rayman Legends right now, but thanks to the good people at Royal Mail, have another delay on the game...

Marcel van Duyn: Hey, I'm Marcel, I'm a reviewer and one might say I'm pretty good at DuckTales.

Tom Whitehead: I'm Tom, features editor and the poor soul that edits these round tables.

Ron DelVillano: I'm Ron. US reviewer without a witty comment.

Tom: Excellent! So, let's all start with one sentence or phrase that summarises our initial reactions to the 2DS.

Marcel: "Uhhh... what?"

Ken: "Cheap, nasty, pointless."

Ron: Fevered nightmare.

Gaz: Happy April Fools Da... Huh, it's August.

Stephen: "Even Nintendo is making fun of Nintendo now? How silly this world is!"

Morgan: "Hmm, guess I'll be having kids some day!"

Andy: I personally think it's a great idea! Though I won't be trading my 3DS XL for one...

Tom: "Nah, can't be real".

Ron: I'm actually with Andy on this one, but my initial reaction was a mix of laughing and frowning.

Andy: Phew, thought I'd be on my own for a second there…

Gaz: Wait, Morgan, your first reaction when seeing the 2DS was "better have some children"?

Morgan: I think I'm enough of a gadget head that yes, it was. "I want to buy those for someone!"

But I'm also with Andy & Ron, I think it's a great idea. Perfect for kids, and really, anyone who wants a less expensive 3DS.

Tom: I think it'll have a market, but it was always going to be slammed by a lot of people. Do you all think Nintendo was right to pretty much drop it on us in the way it did?

Stephen: It was a shocker, but I've seen a lot of people bounce back. The concept — and the name in particular — is ridiculous, but it makes some kind of sense when you think about the market, right?

Gaz: I find it a little strange that Animal Crossing Plaza warranted a Nintendo Direct going out with basically no new information, but a new handheld revision, which let's face it, does need a bit of explaining, gets a shuffled out press release.

Marcel: I think they should've announced it during a Nintendo Direct and spent some time explaining it, it seemed a bit weird to just throw it out there like this with nothing but a 50 second video.

Andy: I don't think there was a need for a Nintendo Direct as the typical audience it's aimed at wouldn't have been watching, but it may have helped in terms of explaining it as Marcel's just said.

Tom: I think Nintendo would have been slaughtered if they'd revealed it in a Nintendo Direct. ND's hype people, and it would have been a huge come-down.

Morgan: I think it's because — as much as it might appeal to some of us — this wasn't really an announcement for the people who watch Nintendo Directs as soon as they pop up.

Ken: Yeah, if they had detailed it in a Nintendo Direct, they'd have been slammed.

Stephen: And as far as Nintendo is concerned, the majority of people talking about Nintendo Directs on Twitter and such aren't the target consumers.

Morgan: Exactly.

Though to be fair, it was a pretty exciting announcement for me, and I would've been happy to watch a Direct on it!

Ron: I think the sudden information drop was strange, but this isn't a new console with new features. It's actually just the same old console with fewer features, so it's not that surprising to me that Nintendo didn't feel the need to explain everything away.

Gaz: I think a 3DS that plays 3DS games in 2D needed some sort of explanation, or at least a rationale behind it. Just imagine the crazy shenanigans Iwata could have got up to when revealing it!

Morgan: Gaz, now I've got an image of Iwata in my head. "These three bananas represent the NIntendo 3DS. These two bananas represent the newly released Nintendo 2DS. Please understand."

Ken: It felt as if they were ashamed of the new machine. As if their goal is simply to get it to market without there being any big build-up to launch. They want to rely on salesmen in stores to shift it to less clued-up parents, it feels like.

Gaz: Like the Wii Mini?

Stephen: Very much like the Wii mini. Great comparison.

Ken: Because after all, the people who would read up about it clearly aren't the target audience.

Marcel: Well, I'm not saying they should've dedicated a whole Direct to it, but maybe they should've waited to include it in a bigger one together with some new trailers for stuff; surely we're getting one soon with new holiday game trailers, right?

Tom: Some media commentary has suggested that the 2DS is a climb-down and sign of failure for the autostereoscopic 3D feature. What do you all think about that perspective?

I think that argument is off, in general. Or to put it another way, it’s poppycock.

Ken: Absolute poppycock. They're giving people a choice. A choice that they think the people want.

Stephen: It's a sign that Nintendo thinks the 3DS component is unnecessary. Does that mean it's a failure? No. If the 3DS wasn't doing so well, this whole thing might have me slightly worried. But as it stands, I think everything's cool.

Marcel: Based on what Nintendo said it seemed like the 2DS is aimed at kids under 7 who shouldn't be seeing stereostopic 3D and absolutely nothing else, so I don't think it's really any indication that the 3D is a failure.

Morgan: I agree with Tom. I like the 3D & I certainly think we'll keep seeing 3DS games in 3D — I think the rationale behind the 2D screen is to be able to market wholeheartedly to children, especially now that Pokémon X & Y are coming out, without having that worrying little asterisk that points to potential eye-damage in children under 7.

Tom: Yep, I agree with you all!

Andy: I don't see it as a climbdown at all. The 3D feature is being used well in upcoming first party titles. It's about giving consumers more choice, which can only be a good thing. It gets the price point lower than the 3DS could too, what with the tech required.

Tom: And unlike the Wii Mini it actually has every other feature.

Ron: I think it's just a way for media outlets to get hits. It's all finger-pointing. The 3D effect on the 3DS does enhance some games, but the truth is that it does very little for others. Calling it a failure is absurd. It was always an optional feature, so there is no failing to be done.

Stephen: Also, I'm not one to hold knowledge about technology price points, but how low could they cut the cost with the 3D hardware still on board?

Stephen: Good point, Ron. They've always made it very clear that the 3D elements can be turned down/off.

Andy: I don't think it could get below $125 with 3D involved

Gaz: It's not really a climbdown, more of a budget option. 3D isn't necessary to play these games, so if you're not using it, why have it? It's perfect for people on a budget.

Ken: To be fair though, I still think the announced 2DS price is too high for what it is.

Gaz: £100 isn't it?

Ken: Or thereabouts, yes.

Gaz: So same as a DS phat was, which seems reasonable to me, very reasonable.

Morgan: I agree, I think everything-but-the-3D is a pretty good deal for $130/£100

Ron: I would pay $100 for one, but $130 is a bit too much.

Andy: Yeah I think it's £109.99 at GAME.

Tom: It's still a very decent handheld system, so it's worth that price, I feel. There's still all the online, StreetPass, SpotPass, system updates etc.

Stephen: Here in America, knocking it down to $99.99 could be huge, though.

Andy: As a starting price, I think that's about right, this is still essentially a 3DS, just without the 3D.

Ron: I'm actually more attracted to the pouch that they keep showing with it than I am to the console.

Andy: That pouch is nice to be fair!

Morgan: Oh man, I agree Ron! Super dope pouch.

Ken: Well the 3DS is £134.99. From that, they're taking out the need for two physical screens, the 3D element, the hinges, the wiring that runs through those hinges, and the need to machine four pieces of housing to create the console.

For me, that means it should be more than £25 cheaper.

Not to mention the quicker assembly that they'll get on the production line due to the much simpler design.

Gaz: I don't begrudge Nintendo wanting to make a profit, £100 is cheap for what you get.

Tom: Ultimately I think the price is decent for the market. Nintendo, like every corporation, won't go cheaper just because it can.

Look at Sony with the PS3 slim 12GB price, ludicrous compared to the slim 500GB model.

Ken: I just think that they could have done £99.99 easily, and made it a REAL eye-catching value proposition this Christmas, is all.

Andy: I think it's positioned quite well against the growing range of kids' tablets that are cropping up in the market.

Tom: One fun bit of speculation to chew on. Is this design preparing us all for the next Nintendo portable generation going single screen?

Ken: Undoubtedly.

Morgan: I have to admit I hadn't even thought of it! Nintendo portables just feel like dual-screened devices to me now; but in some ways it could be a nice change of pace to get back to one screen.

Nintendo portables just feel like dual-screened devices to me now; but in some ways it could be a nice change of pace to get back to one screen.

Marcel: Yeah, I have noticed that a surprisingly small amount of games have made use of the touch screen since the 3DS was introduced, so I wouldn't be surprised if the next gen just goes back to a single screen.

Gaz: I hope not. I've never liked how the 3DS took focus from the bottom screen, but the DS concept is so wonderful it would be a shame to see it die. Wii U showed absolutely that dual screens need to be in close proximity to work, so it's up to the DS line to continue to innovate in that area (the DS Layton games for example).

Stephen: I feel that a single tablet-style screen is probably the future... not unlike the Wii U controller.

Andy: I don't think so, some don't use it but many do. It's the same with 3D, the dev has the choice to implement it or not depending usually on cost, but if you take it away then nobody can use it and innovation suffers. Basically, the more options a dev has the more creative they can be.

Ron: I could see Nintendo going to a single touchscreen. It still wouldn't be a tablet, but it could cut into the tablet market.

Ken: I agree with Stephen. I think their next move will be a Wii U-compatible standalone device.

Morgan: Yeah actually, thinking about it a bit more, I'm definitely sold on the double-screen thing. When I switch to playing the Vita after the 3DS, for a while it feels really "flat" — part of it is that I play with the 3D on most of the time, but I also think it's because there's only one screen; it's almost more immersive, even though the screen's smaller.

Tom: I think that with the 3D screen, a lot of 3DS games relegated the touch screen to a menu display. I think its time may be coming to a natural end.

Gaz: I think what's so good about the DS concept is that on a small screen, it's impossible to fit everything on one screen — two screens is the answer. HDTVs are good enough to bypass the lack of real estate, but handhelds now need that extra room for non-essential stuff.

Andy: Good point Gaz.

Gaz: Even if it's not innovative, the second screen is valuable.

Morgan: Agreed. I've found myself saying "Indeed, it is good to have two screens" more than once lately!

Tom: Going single screen would cause a backward compatibility headache too, unless you use a Wii U or whatever to play 3DS games wirelessly on the TV via the handheld.

It depends how much third parties matter, because being the only dual screen portable perhaps puts undue pressure on devs to do that bit more work.

Ron: Don't get me wrong, I love the 3DS and its amount of screens, but I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Nintendo went back to one.

Stephen: If the screen is big enough, virtual dual screens might do the trick. (Not sure how that'd work out technology-wise!)

Gaz: But let's face it, the 3DS is the only portable on the market that is making up the sales numbers. PS Vita is nowhere comparatively, so it's not like people are saying "oh, we don't want to work on TWO screens now".

Tom: They portable devs (even big names) are mostly on phones and tablets. Not many major 3rd party retail titles are coming to 3DS. Nintendo's done an amazing job picking up the slack, but still. You could count notable mainstream upcoming 3rd party 3DS games on one hand, probably.

Gaz: But does anyone care about mobile games? We keep hearing that mobile will wipe out 3DS, but the opposite is true. 3DS is doing just fine.

Tom: That's not what I'm on about, I'm on about major projects from 3rd parties, and they're working on tight budgets, I imagine. Nintendo can't sustain portables on its own indefinitely.

It can for now, yes, so the 3DS is fine right now.

Stephen: They've done a pretty good job keeping afloat by themselves for a while now, though!

Gaz: What major project are we missing out on though? Angry Birds doesn't count.

Tom: Think back to the first half of 2012, when Mario Tennis was a "big" release, it took time for Nintendo line up its shots.

Andy: Good pun.

Gaz: Ace pun more like!

Morgan: I'm actually looking in my little 18-card Club Nintendo case right now, and I've just as many 3rd party titles as Nintendo games — mostly Atlus and SEGA, they've been working wonders for my 3DS lineup!

Gaz: Even in a scenario where Nintendo were the only publisher on 3DS, I'd be happy. They know their handheld games!

Morgan: Atlus in particular has been amazing at throwing JRPG goodness onto the 3DS this year, and I really hope that keeps up!

Tom: Yep, fair points all. In Europe the story's different with Atlus, Morgan!

Ron: One quick last comment about the 2Dees: It's not the most attractive console ever, but I'm guessing the build quality is Game Boy tough. That thing looks indestructible.

Tom: It looks a bit like a Fisher Price toy, but that's fine for its audience. That's really all I have to say about its appearance.

Morgan: I'm not a fan of the North American models, but the Euro white & red looks great to me!

Stephen: The fact that is has no joints freaks me out, but as mentioned previously, it looks impervious to all obstacles.

Gaz: It's an interesting design choice for sure, but one done out of cost necessity I would imagine. Those buttons halfway up the pad freak me out though, what are they doing there?

Andy: I actually want to get hold of one.

Ron: I'm actually really curious to see if it will be more or less comfortable in my GIANT MAN HANDS.

On the next page we chat about the Wii U price cut and assorted issues facing the system; some of us express optimism, however, so fear not!

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User Comments (152)

MAB

#2

MAB said:

Hats could possibly be eaten in the future if this strategy pays off big time ;)

2DS looks exactly like a GB Advance with a second screen...
Untitled

DarkCoolEdge

#3

DarkCoolEdge said:

I hope Nintendo doesn't drop the second screen for its next gen handheld. It would be a huge loss.

mch

#4

mch said:

Does anyone know why the 2DS is NOT announced for the Japanese Market? It just doesn´t wanna make sens to me..

SkywardCrowbar

#6

SkywardCrowbar said:

What part of the 2DS being for small children don't people get? It's a great idea and will help Nintendo expand its market share.

Haxonberik

#7

Haxonberik said:

@darkcooledge After putting a second screen even on their home console, I believe they're convinced about them and won't take it away from their handhelds at least.

DeathlyDarkness

#8

DeathlyDarkness said:

I love reading these! Thanks guys! :)

I don't know, it seems Nintendo's only ruling out 3D for the younger audience, besides, developers could always enable 3D and then have it on both.

The way I see it:

Nintendo's expanding the market, not decreasing it's focus on 3D

mch

#9

mch said:

Handhelds must kind of fit in pockets and purses. The two screens and the hinges are just perfect to use the space and still keep it pretty compact. I hope the keep it too.

Peach64

#10

Peach64 said:

I think you guys are expecting far too much of Wii Fit U. Wii Fit was huge, but the people that bought that, probably aren't going to buy another console to play another one. To be honest, I'm not even sure they'd buy a new one on Wii anymore. It's time seems to have passed.

DimetriWarrior

#11

DimetriWarrior said:

Oh shoop da whoop... They put a second screen on the Wii U... That means that the successor to the Wii U will also have two screens because backwards compatibility.

Windy

#12

Windy said:

I'm still steaming about the 2DS announcement. I can steam all I want to but Nintendo will have a very good holiday season with it. I just get the feeling they are about to phase out 3d. Signs are there. They haven't published 3d Classics in a while. Sega is kind of taking over the reigns for that. We will know about this time next year if that is what they are doing. At least they have a few great games in the works for 3DS still. I am going to jump into Pokemon for the First time on 3DS.

I'm still not buying a Wii-U. There isn't 1 peice of software released yet that i'm interested in. I'm very interested though in Xenoblade and was also watching Dragon Quest X to see if we would get a release here in North America. I was pretty devastated when it was announced for PC instead of Wii-U in North America. I just don't think Xenoblade is going to be enough for me to buy a Wii-U. I really want the Wii-U to be my future system but I seriously doubt it at this point. I'm a pretty Old gamer at 48 and feel as though I may have bought my last system already. It's not out of the question but Nothing grabs me out there at the moment. I was very frustrated with the Wii right up to the very end when some great software came out (Xenoblade, Zelda and Pandoras Tower). I just cant stand motion controls. I wish they would dump it and go back to a regular controller. I am also not interested in a 50 dollar Price reduction. I'm interested in quality software and there is just enough now or in the near future for myself

mch

#13

mch said:

@Peach64
Agree with your comment to a high degree. I think they realize that it won´t have the drive it had on Wii. With that big and ongoing delay they are probably trying to make Wii Fit U extra good and are adding lots of content so it differs from the antecessor. Chance is also high that implementing everything in HD was more time consuming than predicted (like Nintendo admit with Pikmin 3). I am looking forward to it.

Kirk

#14

Kirk said:

I think they should have set the 2DS price at £99.99 [£100]. £109.99 just isn't as attractive and even though it's only £10 more it gives the impressions it's much more simply because it's above the magic £100 price point.

The Wii U price cut is appreciated but I wouldn't even consider getting one until it dropped below £200 in the UK. £199.99 would be good but £149.99 would be great.

DarkCoolEdge

#15

DarkCoolEdge said:

@Windy If done well motion controls can be great! Nevertheless, they shouldn't be in any game just for the sake of being.

Skyward Sword is fantastic in no small part thanks to the wonderful controls. The same can be said about Red Steel 2, Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition or Houes of the Dead: Overkill.

If it's well thought and done, any control option can be good. It just has to fit well the game they do. :)

aaronsullivan

#16

aaronsullivan said:

@Windy Tough situation. I don't think 2DS has anything to do with phasing out 3D. One thing to remember, is that kids, right now, are EXPECTING 3D in their handheld games and their movies. 3DS is causing that and every CG animated kids movie being the best at 3D is causing that. Targeting younger kids with a cheaper portable is actually going to get them to want the 3DS version when they grow into it.

As for the Wii U and not liking motion controls, I personally love motion controls and wish they'd keep refining it. For what's it's worth, they are refined quite a bit on the Wii U. Many of the deficiencies and inaccuracies are melting away as everything expects you have a motion plus controller and there are further tech improvements that have smoothed things out.

My frustration with the Wii is that the Motion Plus controllers made it into what I imagined it would be from the start and they came way too late affecting only a couple of games.

Not saying you'll suddenly prefer those types of controls, just that Wii U is a significant step up in overcoming some issues.

I'll bet you'll think hard about Wii U again when the next Zelda gets announced. :) For me, it's easy as I have a 4 and 8 year old that grew up on Nintendo and the Wii U has been a dream system without a lull in games. It's all about perspective I guess. :D

DarkCoolEdge

#17

DarkCoolEdge said:

@Kirk In fact 99£ would be even better for a WiiU! And 49£ would be just plain awesome! Hopefully the ps4 costs that too and gaming PCs for 100-150 would rock the world!
...

Windy

#18

Windy said:

@DarkCoolEdge I loved Skyward Sword. One of my favorite games. I got through the motion controls but fought all the way through and thought I would like a controller right up to beating it

aaronsullivan

#20

aaronsullivan said:

Wii U has a definite challenge this year, but I'm somewhat encouraged by the approach. It's a family system to many consumers to others it's unique brand of Nintendo polish and quirkiness. PS4 and Xone don't compete in those areas at all. They offer something very different.

Making sure there is a $100 difference and a pack-in game with some decent longevity with a stream of solid looking games to arrive in the near future is about the best that could be done right now.

aaronsullivan

#21

aaronsullivan said:

I hope Nintendo gives another push to Nintendo Land somehow. It's so underrated and is still a fantastic introduction to why the Wii U is awesome. It just doesn't look like it on the box and has the look of a mini-game compilation which was such a sore spot on the Wii lineup. Once again, anyone with someone to play with in the same room should give that game a solid try.

3Daniel

#22

3Daniel said:

Its such a shame the wii u has been in such a dire position as it really is a cool console with lots of options right out of the box. Nintendo has been trying to give control to the consumer and pikmin 3 embodies it perfectly. Gamepad, gamepro, wiimote and nunchuck. I love not being tied to a single configuration and this really needs to be marketed more. Not to mention offscreen play which is more beneficial then ppl give credit. My friend was watching sinister with his wife and she fell asleep so he switched over to the pad with his headphones and continued watching. I was playing pikmin the other day and did the same thing so not to wake my nephews. The digital deluxe promotion doesnt get the praise it deserves either and i love NOT being tied down to expensive proprietary memory or forced hardware installs. Nintendo fudged the release by not having the software to back it up and relying on third parties without proper incentives to get exclusive content. Had they invested in legends it never would have gone multiplatform and delayed.

InsertPi

#23

InsertPi said:

I originally thought that this was just a horrible idea, but after looking at it a bit more, I think its actually pretty awesome. This is a tablet for kids. It's not for us. It has 2d so the little kids don't hurt their eyes, it's cheaper, and it dropped the folding design so that the kids can't put it in their pockets and take it places where they're not supposed to.

Kirk

#24

Kirk said:

In terms of going back to single screen on it's handhelds I think it would make most sense to have one screen that's basically the equivelant of two screens on top of each other, or just closer to a proper tablet, and then developers can simply choose to split the screens in code if they want to replicate the separate top and bottom screens on the likes of 3DS/2DS games. These old consoles would be easily emulated in this way, for backwards compatibility, and new games on the system could really take advantage of the bigger single screen.

What you see with using a single screen split into two would basically look something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKzKiPChc-Q

See my previous Tweaked 2DS mock-ups to get a further idea of what I'm talking about on actual hardware:

http://oi42.tinypic.com/25s0n7p.jpg

Ignore them being "Tweaked" designs in this particular context and just concentrate of the idea of having a larger single screen handheld that can mimic the older handhelds dual screens when necessary. The bigger single screen would also be ideal for things like browsing the web, reading eBooks and watching movies for example.

http://oi41.tinypic.com/dgm0kl.jpg

That to me would be the best idea for Nintendo's next handheld display (talking bout just the display here).

Shambo

#26

Shambo said:

"Gaz: Without EA, Wii U isn't quite as appealing to average consumers. FIFA and Madden are titanic and to not have them is a bitter blow."
Sadly while I couldn't care less about sports games, this may be true. But to gamers EA is also Titanic: a big boat arrogant enough to ram anything on its path, but at the end of the day a sinking ship nonetheless.

Doma

#27

Doma said:

@Windy You should really just buy a PS3 if it's JRPGs that most interests you. A good number of 'em has been releasing lately (with Persona 5 still to be announced).

DarkCoolEdge

#28

DarkCoolEdge said:

@Kirk Thanks for the compliment ▲_▲
I'm getting tired of your rants these past few days. Still, I haven't insulted you. You on the other hand...

DarkCoolEdge

#30

DarkCoolEdge said:

@Shambo FIFA is too big to miss it. I've never bought one but if a console wants to be a contender in Europe, must have FIFA. Well, at least it is not missing on CoD.
Not getting GTAV is also very bad for it. Nintendo needs to improve sales to convince those greedy third parties (primarily EA).

DarkCoolEdge

#31

DarkCoolEdge said:

@Kirk No, I was just being sarcastic because your comment was ridiculous and I think it is healthier to answer in the way I did.
Not trying to flame. I don't want a worthless discussion filling up the comments section but I couldn't let your comment pass by neither.

You on the other hand have told me to f*ck off and called me a douche. Way to go...

Kirk

#32

Kirk said:

@DarkCoolEdge

Because suggesting they reduce the £109.99 2DS to £99.99, just like one of the guys in the main article did, is soooo ridiculous.

DarkCoolEdge

#33

DarkCoolEdge said:

@Kirk No, for suggesting the WiiU for 149£.

Edit: very kind of you but it feels more like you know you overreacted and the only one insulting was you. Anyway, do as you please, I don't care.

Arcamenel

#34

Arcamenel said:

I just don't get why people think it makes any logical sense for a new system, that is significantly more powerful than its predecessor to be the same price even with the cost of parts going down. The 2DS may not have 3D but it's still capable of things the original DS wasn't so asking it to be the same price as that is just silly imo.

Kirk

#35

Kirk said:

@DarkCoolEdge

The NES, SNES, N64 and GC were all under £150 at launch in the UK (as I recall).

It wasn't until the Wii and now Wii U, ironically the same time Nintendo's systems first started being a whole generation out of date and behind the competition in terms of graphical power, that Nintendo started asking for way more than what I think it's consoles are worth.

It's perfectly reasonable to suggest I won't even be interested in buying a Wii U until it's below £200 and ideally £149.99.

That's my prerogative.

orravan85

#36

orravan85 said:

@3Daniel
I read on Destructiod; who have had HANDS ON, that it is in fact very comfortable in big hands and small. They are singing all sorts of praises for it.

I intend on buying two of these for Christmas for my two boys. And loading it with Digital goodness.

Kirby3ds

#37

Kirby3ds said:

i don't care what anyone thinks about the 2ds, its a great idea. its for cash stripped buyers, its perfect and i bet it alone will sell more than the vita. buy the way kirk it takes 180 to make a Wii u. the n64 isn't near as technology advanced as a Wii u, and better tech costs money. they have to make a profit somehow. what your asking for is totally unreasonable.

Kirk

#38

Kirk said:

@DarkCoolEdge

No, I just know the MODs are now likely to jump on everything I say since you decided to specifically call out any responses I made to your intentionally antagonistic reply to my original post simply expressing my own views and opinions.

LetsGoRetro

#39

LetsGoRetro said:

@kirk @darkcooledge

Now, play nice, boys!

Realistically though, Kirk, I thought the same thing upon reading your comment, but let me answer in a more pleasant, if still slightly aggressive, manner. I'm no business major or math genius, but lets look at this real quick.

They're taking a loss at the 350 price point. How much of a loss we don't know, but being that we're told one game sale brings them back in the positive, let's estimate 25 bucks of every game sale is profit, after what the retailer makes, packaging, development costs, etc. So this would mean the loss is no more than 24 bucks. So, let's say they lose 20 bucks per console, and that 1 game sale brings them to $5 profit between Console / 1 game.

You're suggesting they drop it 200 dollars. They nowlose 220 bucks every single time a system goes out the door. At 25 dollars profit per game, they need to sell 9 games to make 5 dollars profit. I mean, come on.

How could that ever become profitable for them? I am pretty sure the average wii owners owns only 3-4 games by the numbers, right? I don't remember exactly but I know it was lower than both ps3 & 360.

So, since they obviously can't make a lower powered system since people already complain it's not powerful enough as is, how would your proposition EVER be reasonable for Ninty, bro? We love their games, let's support them.

DarkCoolEdge

#41

DarkCoolEdge said:

@Kirk First time I'm called a fanboy. Thanks for that.
About the symbol, what can I say? I'm not from UK, not used to putting the symbol first, sometimes I forget about it. No need to be harsh.

Edit: sooo... you actually wanted to get personal? And I'm the insulting one? Sir, you've got a problem. Maybe more. Probably. Certainly. :P

Kirk

#42

Kirk said:

@LetsGoRetro

The problem is that none of you actualy read my comment properly.

I didn't say they should make the current Wii U model £200 or even less.

I said I won't even consider buying a Wii U until it's at least £200 and ideally £149.99.

There's absolutely no reason whatsoever they couldn't release a sub £200 and even a £149.99 Wii U down the road.

You guys just need to read my comments properly and think a bit more before you criticize.

3Daniel

#44

3Daniel said:

@orravan85 im sure it is. I was just referring to the article, i forget who questioned it, as to why the placement of the buttons were above center. I wish the 3dswii had better rl triggers and id pick one up for myself but i love the 3d effect in games. Im getting one for my young nephew and it will be his first gaming device outside of leap pad!!! He broke the hinge on my initial 3dsannouncement so i love that they went with a slate design :)

I wish i could turn off auto correct a on my phone.

BlueToad

#45

BlueToad said:

To be honest, the more I see of the 2DS, the more I like it. It's kinda weird. When I first saw it I was angry and thought it was a joke but now i actually don't mind it :D

fortius54

#46

fortius54 said:

Leapster has been making a ton of money for years off of his segment of the market, and there games are a lot weaker than what Nintendo is going to come out with.

Kirk

#49

Kirk said:

Here's a very quick concept for a next-again-gen Nintendo handheld that's similar to the 2DS but uses one big screen (as speculated in the article) instead of two separate smaller screens:

http://oi41.tinypic.com/vzh34o.jpg

It's even got dual analogue too (go figure).

Note: Don't panic with issues that don't exist, like "Where's the Power Button?". It's there...on the top, bottom or side (or it would be there, just like most other mobile devices). Or "How do you put it into Sleep Mode?"...Like most other modern mobile devices; by tapping Power to Sleep and Holding Power to Turn Off. Etc etc...

TheGZeus

#51

TheGZeus said:

I know I'm harping on this, but how well is this going to sell the kids when they can't even reach the bumpers?
just watch the commercial.

DarkCoolEdge

#52

DarkCoolEdge said:

@Kirk The dual analogue is a must (I don't understand why they didn't put it on XL >:( ) but i prefer the dual design over the huge screen.

@Yasume I think you are going too far. Ban him permanently is way too much, at least for what I've seen him write. Sure, he shouldn't tell people to f**k off but banning is unnecessary.

Kirk

#53

Kirk said:

@DarkCoolEdge @DarkCoolEdge

I genuinely expect they'll go back to the single screen in their next-again-gen console.

Or, rather I genuinely think that would make the most sense.

I suspect a lot of people won't see the sense in that right now but in a few years time I think it will make more sense to those people.

unrandomsam

#55

unrandomsam said:

All I want is a Wii U with everything built into the gamepad and decent battery life.

(And for the console after the 3DS to have an integer scaling factor of extra pixels. DS games look like dirt on my 3DS XL.)

Jazzer94

#56

Jazzer94 said:

Might pick up a 2DS from the US next time I go over so I won't have to wait for games like SMTIV to be released.

AJWolfTill

#57

AJWolfTill said:

@Kirk Have you been looking in shops? I've seen Wii U consoles being sold for £200 bundled with 2 games before? It really is a fantastic console despite it's awkward image :)

Jared1984

#58

Jared1984 said:

Morgan: Definitely! And I wouldn't trade a year of Nintendo Land fun for $50......
Really?

Windy

#59

Windy said:

@aaronsullivan I would actually have bought a Wii-U if Nintendoland would have had Online Multiplayer play features. I thought it was going to have it when they were showing it before its release. I was pretty disappointed when it didn't. If they release a sequel to it and have online features I will buy a Wii-U

Big_Boy_Chubs

#60

Big_Boy_Chubs said:

Did anyone actually read the whole discussion...
I just skimmed over it, and the only thing i remember is "man hands"

james_squared

#61

james_squared said:

An interesting read. I did buy the WiiU because of ZombieU. That was the title that did it for me. Great game. Lots of fun. Scared me several times. Uses the GamePad better than just about any game on the WiiU; honourable mention to Nintendo Land. I'm a big fan of the GamePad, I'd just like to see it used more fully. Where are those creative game developers?

Windy

#62

Windy said:

@Doma You are right I should get a PS3 but I keep this hope beyond hope that one of the Nintendo Consoles will get the good RPG's. The 3DS has been Tremendous lately with the RPG's I can't keep up. Right now 3DS is my main console. I also still play my Wii. I have a bunch of RPG's to play on Wii that I havent beat

BossBattles

#63

BossBattles said:

Only in the year 2013 would this device bring such a debate. It is because people themselves have lost their minds. It is just another DS option. Buy it if you like, don't if you won't.

NMH-TRI

#64

NMH-TRI said:

@Peach64 You may be underestimating the "easily influenced consumer". If they market it right, it'll sell. Wii U Play will sell with the control (same as the last).

Honestly, there are too many variables that go into whether or not something will be bought. I predict...Wii U Play, Wii Fit U, and holiday Wii U sales...will kill.

NMH-TRI

#65

NMH-TRI said:

@james_squared ZombiU scared the Sh!t outta me quite a few times. The sound was scary and there were times that I didn't want to continue playing (not for lack of fun).

I'm working through survivor mode right now and the frustration level is right there with the underwater level on TMNT (I feel for anybody that understands that hell).

BFahey3

#66

BFahey3 said:

I don't understand why no video game journalists ask Reggie or Iwata what they are doing to get the Maddens and the GTAS not being offered on Nintendo's console. A few years ago Reggie said they must do what they can to get Gta... but I'd truly like to know what progress has been made.

If anything, it looks like they've regressed on 3rd party relationships.

WiiULoveGBA

#67

WiiULoveGBA said:

2DS is the future just needs 3DXL display and a 2nd stick.
Wii U... It could blow up overnight or it could be an uphill battle till the end, we'll see.

unrandomsam

#68

unrandomsam said:

@iMii For me I would swap the 3D for 60fps in a heartbeat. (If I could get that I would never use my 3DS XL again).

Senario

#69

Senario said:

Concerning the 3DS/2DS I'm somewhat glad it didn't turn to an overall negative response without understanding.

However the Wii U conversation was a little iffy and I didn't agree with some of the comments. For example the game lineup being only exciting for Nintendo fans. Take a family who has no brand loyalty and wants to buy games for the holidays for kids. Do they want the $400 PS4 with violent M rated games, the $500 Xbox one with pretty much the same due to multiplats, or the family friendly looking Wii U at 300? Nintendo games by nature are playable by all ages which works in their favor imo. And of course Wii Fit U will be out, a name that has regular consumer's attention.

Also, there is the 3DS/2DS series of games so if a family wants even cheaper entertainment for their kids/themselves then there is that. The games are also cheaper than console versions.

Overall I think that Nintendo is taking the right approach but it is going to be an uphill battle that won't end overnight. If it does end overnight well XD...Yay?

rjejr

#70

rjejr said:

Good read on the 2Dees - especially Kens $ breakdown on why it should be $99 US, wnd why no Nintendo Direct - but you barely discussed the $50 at all.

Sure, people who had the system 10 months got their moneys worth, but what about people who bought 1 this summer for Pikmin 3?
And why get all the media coverage but have a 3 week wait? Nobody anywhere can make sense of that.

On a brighter note - in the eShop inder Pax 2013 (photo of SM3DW) there are several good videos of upcoming games. SM3DW looks just like Galaxy in single player, Bayonetta 2 looks great. Even W101 looks good. So for those who one a Wii U and those who will, hope is coming.

RedFireTiger

#71

RedFireTiger said:

I hope Nintendo's next console is a merge between portable and home console. i also hope in the future they have some kind of phone call and text / email option it would be the ultimate device. these smart phones and tablets are doing well games. why shouldnt nintendo start bringing phone services with their DS systems? it'd be perfect.

Senario

#72

Senario said:

@rjejr Well the 3 Week wait is for people to save up money, Not everybody can suddenly get $300 to pay for a new console. At least this is my assumption.

@Stimpy I feel that this would be difficult as not only does that go against what Nintendo usually does. Nintendo is a gaming company first and formost, they don't put un-needed features such as phone calling ability. Texts are somewhat the same territory and I believe you can already e-mail using the browser. However it just doesn't seem like a good idea, people wouldn't buy a DS for phone service and they might actually buy it less since they already have smart phones with much more capabilities.

If you mean a console that has functionality with their handheld (like a wireless GBA+Gamecube combo) then maybe that would work. But honestly I don't know what to expect from Nintendo going forward, I just know it isn't going into the phone/tablet market since that isn't what they do. Phone/tablet games are pretty bad too, free to play but they try to squeeze money out of you wherever possible and limit your play time per day.

Sonic128

#73

Sonic128 said:

Nintendo made some odd design choices for the 2DS, but I think it will be a success with the younger audience. As for the Wii U price cut..... well, we'll see what happens...

PokeMario

#74

PokeMario said:

Please just release Wii Fit U already. As much as I love hardcore games, Wii Fit U has been one of my most anticipted Wii U games.

orravan85

#75

orravan85 said:

So.. Wait. No 2DS charger cradle? I don't see any induction points anywhere on it. (Destructiod had several pictures on it) I figured the charging cradle made things even more kid friendly.

Crazybrain1

#76

Crazybrain1 said:

The 2DS looks like a good idea for families who worry about their children using the 3D, or good for people who just want a cheaper 3DS.

Doma

#77

Doma said:

@NMH-TRI I think the same thing that happened to 3ds Brain Training, will also happen to Wii Fit U. The 'game' will bomb horrendously.

djepic209

#78

djepic209 said:

I sometimes hate reading these because I want to comment on their conversation.
To Gaz:
You obviously don't turn on your WiiU and use it, because you would then understand that the WiiU is built around the tablet. From hand written post, drawings, touch web scrolling. I find operating the WiiU OS a blast and would hate to have to go back to using a regular controller. It just seems so fluid and natural to navigate and communicate with the tablet more so then with a standard controller. Not to mention playing games with it. I have a samsung 23inch wide LED 2ms monitor that I use as my tv on a small table and the tablet sits right in front of it perfectly for my viewing angle. The experience to me is like no other... Justifying the gamepad on more then just a Game Level.

Doma

#79

Doma said:

@Senario Take a family who has no brand loyalty and wants to buy games for the holidays for kids. Do they want the $400 PS4 with violent M rated games, the $500 Xbox one with pretty much the same due to multiplats, or the family friendly looking Wii U at 300?

None of the above. They'd buy the cheaper PS3/360, and there's nothing non-family friendly about those. It's all in your head.

WhiteTrashGuy

#80

WhiteTrashGuy said:

Off-Tv play makes a huge difference for me as a father of 3. I would have never had the time to play AC3, ME3, or BLOPS2 on my 360. Oh, and playing through ARKHAM CITY again on the GamePad has been brilliant!

maceng

#81

maceng said:

@LetsGoRetro
I don't think that they are loosing 50 bucks now. Maybe at launch time they did, but technology keeps getting cheaper and cheaper by the hour.

The cost has come down to US180, according to the TIME, so Big N is making a larger profit by reducing it to 250 (300 with a 50 dollar game). I don't think that coming at US250 was an option, because, how to top it off in the future? Also remember that Black Friday is later on, so you I'll be on the watch for a 300-350 bundle with Nintendo Land, WindWaker and a extra game or controller (I don't have a WiiU, yet).

I also think that at 300 is very fine piece of hardware compared to the Xbox One and the PS4, regardless of the insides of these 2 consoles. I mean, for 300 you get 2 controllers, a game pad and, probably, 2 games.

maceng

#83

maceng said:

@Doma
The PS3 is definitely not very kid friendly. After my 8-year old grew tired of the Wii, I went out to buy some kid games for my PS3. I haven't been able to buy more than 5-6 games for him and his buddies, like Little Big Planet (1,2 and karting), Batman Lego 2, and a couple more. Compared to the Wii the quantity is very underwhelming.

maceng

#84

maceng said:

@Stimpy
Next Nintendo console should be a souped up gamepad with an internal 120Gb HD, 8-8.5" display, that can accept SD cards, 3DS games, etc. Everything then streamlined to a TV, and bundled with a some extra controllers and a game.

Doma

#85

Doma said:

@maceng Then i assume you never bothered with PSN? There's a massive load of kid friendly games available on the console, they just don't hog all the space in retail stores due to the PS3's audience being more varied.

NMH-TRI

#86

NMH-TRI said:

@Doma

Seriously?! Brain Training is a game that did take off. Same with Brain Training and Nintendogs. Just because neither of us care about that game, does noes it make it irrelevant....

It's also a game that the medical community has as a strong rehab arm. My view, is that Nintendo has GREAT diversity!. I don't see anyone with a rational thought in their head, denying this...

Doma

#87

Doma said:

I don't remember Brain Training or Nintendogs ever taking off on the 3ds. They pretty much bombed pathetically compared to their predecessors.

GazPlant

#88

GazPlant said:

@djepic209 Honestly, the sooner Nintendo ditch the Gamepad the sooner we can get back to them just making games and not having to shoehorn it in. Miiverse is great, but touch scrolling on web pages? That's an analogue stick right there. Show me why the Gamepad needs to exist and I might warm to it, but right now it's a big old controller with no real reason to exist.

feelthesarcasm

#89

feelthesarcasm said:

@Doma

Because of the 3DS backwards compatibility with DS games, those aren't really titles nintendo would expect to sell hugely in their 3DS versions. Most people who had nintendogs for the DS didn't need to get the new one because it was essentially the same game. And since it works on their DS, it wasn't incentive to buy it. The only people who would buy that game are.

1. People who didn't have the DS game
2. People who wanted the cat inclusion.

And as far as the PS3/Xbox360 being child friendly. Only parents who are gamers will go through the trouble of downloading games for the PSN. If their kids aren't gamers, they're not going to care about things that are only for digital downloads. Parent's buy games that are advertised in stores and have tv commercials. Not to mention they might be apprehensive of buying systems where games are being phased out, because I would almost bet that LBP 3 will NOT be coming to PS3 when they're ready to release it. Right now wii has the family market locked up pretty well. And if Wii U can get better known, it will take that market as well. Parent's who aren't gamers tend to stick with the same brand.

feelthesarcasm

#91

feelthesarcasm said:

@Doma: Oh I don't think that will be some kind of savior at all. Again with the backwards compatibility, most people probably won't bother with it.

chaos_

#92

chaos_ said:

@GazPlant it doesn't need to exist Nintendo always did fine with a controller with no screen. N64, GC and Wii. They should ditch it so the price on the Wii u can be even more worth it and they should mainly focus on games. Improving the wii u experience (add account) the online for games, the re playability, multi player, add dlc make new ideas for there top franchises (not re use the same boring stuff like new super boring bros or donkey kong tired of county returns) make the visuals amazing to show that the wii u is a strong console (not that strong but it's good enough ie, HD 1080p 60fps) until that they're going to crumble

baba_944

#93

baba_944 said:

Another reason (I think) NINTENDO releasing the 2DS: To attract the DS fanbase. Many DS owners don't want to upgrade to a 3DS, but now with a 2DS on the horizon they can play all 3DS/DS games in 2D. And it's cheaper.

maceng

#95

maceng said:

I really don't think that they are many people hanging to the DS because of the 3DS price, but because of the lack of software that truly feels different from the DS offerings.

MAB

#97

MAB said:

Nintendo is the only company with the balls to take risks these days. MicroSony will play it safe until their ultimate demise. The PS360 didn't exactly set the world on fire like the PS2 did so I see a similar fate coming to PSOne... How's that VITA doing? not well enough to have different variations of that's for sure ;)

SuperKMx

#98

SuperKMx said:

@MadAussieBloke You honestly think Microsoft and Sony (or their games divisions) are going to die? The PS3/360 have shifted 150million units worldwide between them, at roughly a 50/50 split. Extrapolating the current numbers, the Wii U is set to shift around 22million units in total over the same lifespan.

I just don't see your logic about Microsoft and Sony playing it safe and somehow dying because of it. Surely playing it safe - which is the definition of aiming your product at the target audience - is more likely to make them successful? How's all that innovation doing for the Wii U right now?

And no, the Vita isn't doing well, but given that the Wii and Wii U combined make up around 38% of the weekly PS3 sales numbers, and the fact that the PS4 will likely have a larger installed base than the Wii U by February 2014, I don't think Sony are all that worried.

The same way that Nintendo shouldn't worry all that much, thanks to their 3DS sales being strong enough to keep them well in the black for many years to come.

Nobody's going out of business anytime soon. :)

djepic209

#99

djepic209 said:

@GazPlant
Are you saying that because of the gamepad, Nintendo can't make solid games? To me the gamepad adds a more interactive interface to communicate through games. How is this a bad thing in anyway? Just because you personally haven't found a means for it to be beneficial, doesn't mean it isn't. And it's not like it's forced on you either. I understand that you're waiting for a game that truly utilizes the gamepad and I am too. But I am also glad that I can draw some nice artwork that can be shared on Miiverse and that is something you can't do on any other system.

MAB

#100

MAB said:

PS2 alone has sold more than the PS360 combined. The same people that are still buying the other systems won't run out and get a PSOne anytime soon... Alarm bells will be ringing ;)

maceng

#101

maceng said:

@SuperKMx
Agreed. Still, when you consider that Microsoft hasn't make a single buck from the Xbox so far (the estimates is that the gaming division of Microsoft will make a profit around 2016), then it gives a bad impression. Haven't you seen the promotions? "buy a 700 dollars or more laptop/desktop, get a free Xbox", "subscribe for 2 years on Xbox service, get a 150 dollars rebate on any Xbox". These are the only reasons why the Xbox sold more PS3's up to 2012.

Skeet102

#102

Skeet102 said:

I hope the next Nintendo handheld will be dual screen. if it wasn't, it would lose backwards compatibility. that's one of the few thing Nintendo has over Microsoft. I don't really care about the 2ds though. I'm still getting a 3dsxl for Christmas.

JaxonH

#103

JaxonH said:

I hope Nintendo NEVER stops using 2 screens. For handhelds OR home consoles. Every time I play my Vita I'm somewhat disappointed there's no second screen, because I'm so used to it from my 3DS. I couldn't imagine games like Fire Emblem Awakening or Mario & Luigi Dream Team WITHOUT a second screen. It would be a disaster lol!

The Wii U has also solidified my approval of the dual screen concept. Idk what that guy in the roundtable was talking about when he said "Wii U has proven the 2 screens must be in close proximity". That's a load of malarkey! Seriously, Idk what I'm gonna do when my PS4 arrives from Amazon in November- I'm so used to 2 screens on Wii U it's going to be difficult going back to pausing the game for everything- maps, inventory, menus, etc...

And that's not the only benefit of the gamepad. Splinter Cell Blacklist is a PERFECT example of why 2 screens are the way to go. I love the seamless integration of gyro-enabled goggles and marking targets on the touchscreen. I love changing my secondary weapons on the fly without opening that big wheel menu on screen. I love controlling the tri-rotor drone on the gamepad... and Pikmin 3, don't even get me started. That game's full experience wouldn't have even been POSSIBLE without both the gamepad AND the Wiimote.

Yeah, the benefits of dual-screens are such that there is no reason to go back to the days of single screen gaming. ESPECIALLY when Wii U gives the option to use Pro Controller and even Wiimote/Nunchuk as alternatives for most games, for those who do prefer traditional controls in certain games (like NSMBU or NSLU), or motion controls in certain games (like CoD Black Ops 2 or CoD Ghosts).

zipmonStaff

#104

zipmon said:

@Jared1984 Haha, absolutely! It's been the focal point of lots of incredibly fun evenings with friends & family - think I've put something like 30 hours into it all up. I'm a big fan of some of the single-player attractions too, like the DK cart game & Balloon Trip update!

taps

#105

taps said:

Though I do not agree with Tom Whitehead's takes on 3DS software support, I do support his quoting Bette Davis.

VolcanoFlames

#106

VolcanoFlames said:

@3Daniel As in, honestly! Wii U's such a cool console.
Did you read one particular comment on this article that says Ninty should ditch the 'Pad, focus on graphics.. and oh IDK? I say to that, HOO BOY.

On topic, It'll be weird if Ninty go back to single screen, seeing as they had DS, 3DS and now Wii U, with the first two selling bucketloads. And for the 3D? YES! I need it, I love it(although I wish more stuff came out of the screen!), and will miss it if it's gone...

eaglebob345

#108

eaglebob345 said:

@JaxonH Let the two screen hating people whine all they want. If two screen gaming, wasn't the future Microsoft and Sony would not be trying to copy it. They are going to copy Nintendo, like they always have and will.

Marioman64

#109

Marioman64 said:

i JUST noticed the sleep slider on the bottom right

I guess that fold puzzle will actually work, just instead of closing your ds, you slide a slider

eaglebob345

#110

eaglebob345 said:

I think it is going to be funny that the only real difference between NIntendo's supposedly underpowered console, (it is good enough for most but people still whine about it), and Sony and MIcrosoft's "super" offerings, (a lot of people will be disappointed I can smell it now), is that there will be more sweat and most likely faster load times. The people who get the Xbox One are going to be the most angry because they will have paid $200 more. People keep forgetting that of the three companies, Nintendo is the only one that knows exactly what it is doing. PS3 did not see profit for years and for the people who just got one that sale is all but lost for the PS4. Xbox is really just a Halo console. That all its really known for. NIntendo has been using the same ips for years and has also been holding some back waiting for the right time to revive them.

Senario

#111

Senario said:

@Doma Families would not specifically search through the PSN for games for their kid if they arent too familiar with it. They would likely just see what games are at your local stores and choose from those. PS or Xbox games are nowhere near friendly or acceptable content for kids. There simply aren't that many games even if you could find copies of older ones.

JaxonH

#112

JaxonH said:

@SuperKMx
I actually agree with you. I don't like the fact that the majority of gamers ignore Nintendo simply because their games don't come with an "M" on the box, but it is what it is. As long as humanity exists, kids will want to play what they're not supposed to be playing. We did it with games like Mortal Kombat growing up, and they're doing it with Playstation and Xbox now. As long as that trend continues, there is a future for MS and Sony.

JaxonH

#113

JaxonH said:

@Kirk
Just because the Wii U isn't as powerful as PS4 or Xbox One, doesn't mean it's a whole generation out of date. The PS3 and 360 were WAY AHEAD of the curve, and the Wii was a little behind the curve, which together made a big difference. However, the PS4 and Xbox One are no longer ahead of the curve. These systems are only a modest bump up from last gen, and back on normal course for generational leap. So Wii U's power is MUCH closer to its competition than the Wii was with it's respective competition.

The Wii U has 4x the RAM and a beast of a GPU over the PS3 and 360, which were already way ahead of the curve last gen. This puts Wii U only slightly behind the curve this gen, and PS4/Xbox One only slightly above. But Wii U also has a plethora of other improvements over last gen, and even THIS gen, such as Miiverse, backwards compatibility, NFC capabilities, multiple controller options, free online, near-zero latency streaming on Gamepad, etc... Point is, if PS4 without a game is worth $400, then a Wii U WITH a game is DEFINITELY worth $300.

You speak as if the PS4 is rocket-technology and Wii U is nothing more than a PS1 equivalent. Not so. And I know you're not ragging on Nintendo for charging $300 for a LEGIT CONSOLE when Sony launched PS3 at TWICE that price, WITHOUT a game!.

I know you're not ragging on the Wii U selling at $300 with a game, free online, backwards compatibility, gamepad, Miiverse, multiple controller options and one of THE best year-one libraries to date, while the PS4/Xbox One, which are only modestly more powerful, include no game, with paid subscription online, no backward compatibility, no gamepad, no multiple controller options, no online community for gamers (just Facebook integration), and mediocre launch libraries are selling for $100-200 more.

This isn't 1999 anymore. Tech costs money. And Nintendo is LOSING money on MSRP of Wii U- they were LOSING money at $350! So you can't tell me the hardware is out of date or not worth the money, because the simple fact it costs more to make than they're selling it for proves otherwise. Even PS3, which has been out 7 years, has no gamepad, none of these new features Wii U has, only half a gig of RAM and a laughable GPU, is STILL selling for $250. So no, Wii U is more than good at $300. Don't wanna pay that much? Do without then, and miss all the great games everyone else will be enjoying. Don't know what else to tell you.

eaglebob345

#116

eaglebob345 said:

@JaxonH It does, and the sad part is that people just call us fanboys, disregarding everything we say, when we use logic to explain things. However, you and a few others on this site have shown me that I am not the only one to think things through, and I thank you for it.

Senario

#119

Senario said:

@eaglebob345 Sometimes people don't listen to logic...oh well =/.

Props to JaxonH for explaining though, I don't personally delve into tech all that much since I care about games (and a bit about price).

VolcanoFlames

#120

VolcanoFlames said:

@eaglebob345 have you ever visited My Nintendo News? Ugh.. the hate there is horrible, and it's latest article is filled with so much hate and negativity, it swallowed everything, Nintendo gamers there seemed couldn't argue as they'd just be bombarded. If you disagree with someone, they'll instantly call you a 'fanboy'. shudders Woah.
Nintendo Life! Home Sweet Home...

Anyway, the 2DS shouldn't have any problem. Pokemon X and Y should do the trick for us. Yes, the Wii U may be struggling, but I strongly believe it'll turn around soon.

cfgk24

#122

cfgk24 said:

The 2Ds will be a success. Why? Because even I want one let alone little Johnny down the road who will finally be allowed one as Nintendo has addressed EVERY issue that prevented a 3ds purchase. Are parents going but ps vitas now?
Just imagine opening that lovely 2ds gift box on Xmas morning. Another pressie with a game and another pressie with a loverly 2ds case.
Incidentally, the Mark up on the cases will be handsome. As any company makes more money from accessories and online purchased software. This is a good thing for us gamers.
Oh. One more thing. . . Subscription paid online multiplayer service is also a good thing as it allows provision of a decent service. Amen!

GazPlant

#124

GazPlant said:

@djepic209 But it IS forced on you, that's the problem. Even when it serves no purpose, it's still there. No-one knows what to do with it and it's pushing the price up and the processing power down. Make an optional tablet for Miiverse, sure, but if it doesn't work in the games, save the time and effort and ditch it

Shambo

#127

Shambo said:

@DarkCoolEdge I know... I don't like the games too, but too many do. If it has to be football (European, with actual feet throughout the entire game)/soccer, give me Inazuma or Mario Strikers. Again, I know that's just me.

Slayer

#129

Slayer said:

@MadAussieBloke Yeah, and a control stick...
The 2DS is a big joke, you can just get a 3DS and not use the 3D mode. That's what the "Off" option is for on the 3D switch! You can close the 3DS too, making it more able to hold against damage. This thing gets damaged easy.

Senario

#130

Senario said:

@slayer Somebody didn't get the memo that Kids often break the hinges on the regular/XL 3DS very easily. Also some parents wouldn't buy a 3DS for their kids for the warning about possible negative effects on developing kid's (under 7) eyes.

Its fine, I don't see what point there is in hating an option when you still have the other and more regular options. And clearly the 2DS isn't for your demographic.

Sam_Loser2

#131

Sam_Loser2 said:

The only issue I have is that I don't want developers to neglect good 3D implementation because a select of users won't even have the option now. Only a few games have had good use of it in my opinion so far anyway, and I want more games with good 3D like that. (Zelda 3D, Nano Assault, Pilotwings, Dillon's Rolling Western have all had amazing 3D. I'm praying Pokemon will have 3D as good as those.)

SuperKMx

#133

SuperKMx said:

@JaxonH I agree with most of what you're saying there, but to say that the Wii U has one of the best year one libraries to date, and that the PS4 and Xbox One launch lineups are mediocre, are both the stuff of fantasy, for me. And I'm a guy that bought a premium Wii U on day one, with five games to go with the bundled ZombiU!

The Wii U year one library is average in comparison to even the most recent console launches. Yes, Nintendo super-fans have Mario, Pikmin, NintendoLand, et al, and there's a bunch of downloadable stuff that's worth a look. But to people that aren't totally crazy for Nintendo, it leaves a lot to be desired.

To say that there's the variety of even the PS2's first year lineup (which wasn't amazing, quality-wise) is taking it too far. As someone who isn't 100% pro-Nintendo all day long, I could well be interested in most of the games listed in the PS4 and Xbox One launch lineups. Sure, I'll enjoy new Wii U titles as and when they hit the shelves, but it's horses for courses. A lot of gamers - in fact, most gamers, looking at the sales figures - are not convinced by the titles that are available for Wii U as yet. If the first-year lineup was that great, that wouldn't be the case and it would be selling like hot cakes.

People are missing out on some great experiences, but I can't say that I blame them, right now. I'm not a Pikmin fan, so until The Wonderful 101 came out, I had nothing shiny and new to play on the Wii U for five or six months. The fact is that if you own another console, there's very little that would convince you to buy a Wii U right now. My Gamepad actually had a cobweb on it - no lie! :)

Haywired

#134

Haywired said:

@JaxonH
"and Pikmin 3, don't even get me started. That game's full experience wouldn't have even been POSSIBLE without both the gamepad AND the Wiimote."

But surely Pikmin 1 and Pikmin 2 (either GC or Wii) showed that it was most definately possible to have a full experience. Unless pausing the game to look at a map on the controller instead of pausing the game to look at a map on the main screen is such a huge deal that no one was able to enjoy them. Have Nintendo fans really deluded themselves into thinking that this stuff is interesting or important? Since when did Nintendo fans care so much about maps and inventory? ie. when did Nintendo fans become the most boring people on the planet? Maybe "maps > gameplay" is the new "gameplay > graphics"?

JaxonH

#135

JaxonH said:

@SuperKMx
Well, it doesn't have the best year-one library YET, but after the full year is over, the Wii U will have had Nintendoland, ZombiU, Lego City Undercover, Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, New Super Mario Bros U, Game & Wario, New Super Luigi U, Pikmin 3, Zelda Windwaker HD, Wonderful 101, Sonic Lost World, Super Mario 3D Land, Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze, Wii Fit U and Wii Party U as exclusives.

The Wii U will have also had Ninja Gaiden 3 Razor's Edge, Darksiders 2, Batman Arkham City Armored Edition, Mass Effect 3, Assassin's Creed 3, Call of Duty Black Ops 2, Sonic All Stars Racing Transformed, Injustice Gods Among Us, Need For Speed Most Wanted U, Tekken Tag Tournament 2 Wii U Edition, Resident Evil Revelations, Sniper Elite v2, Splinter Cell Blacklist, Rayman Legends, Batman Arkham Origins, Assassin's Creed 4, Watch Dogs, Call of Duty Ghosts and Deus Ex Human Revolution.

And the ringer is every single one of those games are top-notch. Every last one. The 3rd party games brought to Wii U are obviously the picks of the litter, because no one wants to waste time or money porting a mediocre game to Wii U that will bomb. And the 1st party games are always gold- that's just Nintendo quality. Granted, some of the games might not be MY cup of tea, or YOURS, but they're still quality games nonetheless.

Now don't take me wrong, I'm not a Nintendo fanatic who doesn't play anything else- I've got a Vita and my PS4 was pre ordered day one. I've got Killzone Shadowfall and Infamous Second Son pre ordered, along with Kingdom Hearts 3 and Final Fantasy 15 (whenever they release, who knows), so it's not like my perspective isn't fully balanced. But the fact is I have 18 games pre ordered for Wii U, and I already own 18 right now, but I only have one launch day PS4 game pre ordered and one launch window game pre ordered... there's a reason for that.

When you point out a lot of gamers aren't convinced by the titles out- I don't think it's that simple (although in an idealistic world it should be). The fact is a lot of people were turned off by the Wii's shovelware, and now they automatically equate shovelware with Nintendo. That's damaging to sales, because many are just ignoring the Wii U altogether falsely assuming it's more of the same, which it's not.

Add to that this new-age gamer mentality that says "Nintendo is for kids", and you have an entire block of the demographic that refuses to buy Nintendo consoles simply because they base their maturity solely on which console they play on. This is arguably the most damaging factor contributing to a lack of sales for Nintendo. Throw in the confusion over the Wii U name, lack of consumer awareness, lack of advertising, and it's the perfect storm for lackluster sales.

And yes, there actually will be a ton of variety on the Wii U after it's first year. There will be 2D and 3D platformers, puzzlers, strategy games, first-person shooters, stealth, open-world, racing, adventure, RPGs, you name it. Now, we all know Nintendo themselves don't cover all those bases, but there has been quite a good bit of 3rd party support on Wii U during year 1, contrary to popular belief. Reference games listed above.

And btw, I'd like to personally recommend trying Pikmin 3. If you decide it's not for you, cool, but I think the chances of that are slim. However the game comes across aesthetically, Pikmin 3 was the freshest, most unique, amazing game I've played in YEARS. I really do think you might like it.

JaxonH

#136

JaxonH said:

@Haywired
You're totally missing the point, probably because you haven't played the game. The gamepad didn't just serve as a map, it served as a means to multitask. Surely you're not that obtuse. Rethink that assertion would you...

MAB

#137

MAB said:

@JaxonH Yeah, alot of people missed the awesome real-time strategy element of pikmin 3 because they used the lamoid pro controller or Wiimote option... I know because Gamepad 4 Lyfe Baby ;)

Haywired

#138

Haywired said:

@MadAussieBloke
Well, I did use the real-time strategy element of Pikmin 3. But again, it could all easily be done without a touch-screen. You're still pausing the game to do it, so it doesn't make a whole lot of difference, and if even if does, the very fact that we're clutching at straws with such minutiae gives a good indication as to why the concept isn't exciting the general public. Also, "the lamoid pro controller or Wiimote option"? I bet last gen you were saying Wiimote 4 Lyfe!

MAB

#139

MAB said:

It's good that Ninty gives you some awesome choiceful alternatives... Unlike the stale station and xbog with those other controllers that they don't use properly if not at all ;)

JaxonH

#140

JaxonH said:

@MadAussieBloke
In all fairness the Wiimote was the only way I found I could play the game properly- because the game allowed for 2 controllers to be used in tandem, I had the gamepad in my lap while playing with Wiimote/Nunchuk. This setup allows for the benefit of motion controls while still taking advantage of the second screen to scout territory, locate fruit and multitask on the fly.

That's what I was referring to when I said the "full experience". The motion aspect using Wiimote/Nunchuk has been a huge leap forward, but the true next-gen appeal comes from flawlessly using 2 controllers in tandem- one providing motion, the other providing dual-screen mechanics. Together they create an experience you're just not going to find anywhere else.

I feel it should also be noted that the map function in Pikmin 3 was actually one of the finest I've ever seen, despite being a "boring map" as some have suggested. Symbolic references on the gamepad map, but real-time top-down satellite view on the tv screen, showing vital info like enemy placement, type of fruit, obstacles to plan for, bridge piece locations, etc... It was very enjoyable just panning the map and seeing the layout. I loved how all you had to do was touch the screen and the map fuction kicked into gear, then all you had to do was move the Nunchuk analogue or press a button and you were back to playing with Wiimote. Seemless integration.

JaxonH

#141

JaxonH said:

@Haywired
I apologize if I came off as brash before.

Concerning your point to MadAussieBloke that you could still use the RTS in a pause menu, well, sure, I guess that's true, but it would be a headache and a half using cursors to pan the map and/or set destinations. Just like you could use analogue controls in Pikmin 3, but that doesn't mean it's optimal or enjoyable. The map/RTS/multitasking would have been a chore if it'd been in a pause menu, defeating the entire purpose of playing a game to begin with.

The use of Wiimote and gamepad at the same time was a success because it DIDN'T feel like a pause menu. It was so fast and fluid- I could literally reach down, touch the map screen and set a destination using "Go Here", then move the Nunchuk's analogue to snap back into the game, all in less than a second. And that was an amazing thing- it's what made the game truly enjoyable.

Sometimes it's the minutia that makes something great. It isn't one big, loud feature. It's the small things taken in aggregate. Unfortunately, no, the public doesn't immediately see the appeal of that kind of benefit. The Wii had big promise, small delivery. With Wii U, seems like the promise is small, but the delivery is immense. One of those things you gotta experience to truly understand. But don't base the legitimacy of something on how well it sells- it's not wise. Look at Metroid Prime- only 1 million sold. Look at Wonderful 101, didn't even make the top 20. Look at Okami, or Gamecube, etc. etc. etc. The public has a nasty habit of ignoring the best products and going with the loudest.

AllCreation

#142

AllCreation said:

Nintendo doesn't NEED TO PROVE ANYTHING TO EA... Its very upsetting to me that this information isn't as widely publicized as it should be but a huge reason for the poor sales performance of the Wii U is its feud with EA who were completely unprofessional in their negotiations. Nintendo lacks the Huge Online Capabilities that we see with Sony's PSN and MS's XBLive so in trying to rectify that situation they were in negotiations with EA. The Negotiations Broke down when Nintendo refused to give EA complete control of the Nintendo Network which they had every right to do. But, as result EA completely pulled its support for the Wii U and a great many high profile games that were in development for the system were shelved or given halfhearted port releases.

That would have been fine but EA didn't simply stop there. They slandered the console and allowed one of their developers to make statements they were completely false about the console and its lack of power in comparison to current (7th) gen tech. Since the feud with EA concerning the Nintendo Network was generally unknown in the eyes of the people EA had no reason to make those things up. This lead to consumers believing that the Wii U isn't as strong as current gen tech, when it is in fact much stronger. Also developers seeing a prominent company like EA pull support for what they claimed were hardware issues created a viscous cycle where Games like Devil May Cry, Tomb Raider, and Bioshock Infinite skipped the Wii U altogether.

here are some of the quotes released by EA after Nintendo Refused to let them take control of the Nintendo Network.

"EA has a strong partnership and an active agreement with Nintendo to develop games for the WiiU. Last year we released Mass Effect 3 and several of our EA Sports titles on that platform. So far, we have not announced any new titles for Wii U this year, but that does not preclude more games in the future"

Those games were all lackluster ports and Nintendo was only given a fraction of the Support that EA had originally promised

And Then EA Wrote:

"The Wii U is crap. Less powerful than an Xbox 360. Poor online/store. Weird tablet," tweeted Bob Summerwill, listed as a senior software engineer at EA Canada, in a reply to a tweet posting a link about EA's no-Wii U news. "Nintendo are walking dead at this point."

Though the tweets, made early yesterday morning, have since been deleted, screenshots of them mushroomed across multiple sites, most prominently on NeoGAF.

Summerwill didn't let up after that first tweet. "Nintendo are still operating like it's 1990," he goes on, saying it should have gotten out of the hardware business and made its Mario and Legend of Zelda franchises exclusives on either the PlayStation 4 or next Xbox.

"Instead, they make this awful console," he added. Then, of EA's withdrawal from developing for Wii U, he said, "It is an utterly intentional decision to focus our resources on markets which actually matter."

And again at the time it wasn't common knowledge and actually still isn't that the EA was just bitter because Nintendo told them No and wouldn't give them a controlling interest in the Nintendo Network/EShop. In the public eye EA had no reason to attack Nintendo so many people just assumed all of the Slander was true and the Console never really fully recovered.

BUT lets forget Sony and MS DO have to overcome their own Console launches as well. Months and then even Weeks before the Wii U launch everything was all peaches an cream and nobody saw that EA thing coming... Could you imagine if EA suddenly pulled support for MS or Sony or some similar disaster were to occur. I would say its highly unlikely at this point but there will definitely be issues on a smaller scale. Issues like the initial install and months of working out bugs from the online infrastructure and there will definitely be some broken promises and features that were discussed but wont be present right away and perhaps not for months or years and in some cases not at all. This is the nature of a console launch. I'm Still waiting for Color Mii Verse Art in the Mii Plaza and that game where you sit the Gamepad on the Floor and then use a Wiimote to hit a Golf Ball off of the Gamepad screen and into the Television!!

Now allow me to retort, The most powerful console has NEVER won a console generation war. But, With the power of the PS4 and the XB1 and having stumbled at launch I would agree that as it stands Nintendo will have a hard time taking the number one spot in the 8th generation console war. However, If their current triumph with the 3DS is any indication they will still definitely turn a huge profit which is really all that matters.

This price cut is a HUGE deal. With the two new power house consoles From Sony and MS practically being clones of one another, where within the slew of exclusives releasing on the XB1 and PS4 only one or two of their launch titles can actually be described as System Sellers and even fewer offer an experience that can't be realized on another console. Nintendo is the only company offering a truly unique GAMING experience. Unlike the Competition, Just About Every Single Wii U Exclusive is Something Unique and is a Potential System Seller. And whats more, Nintendo is definitely the company that puts the greatest emphasis on family play and family fun which will be essential in the coming holiday season.

Bobberella77

#144

Bobberella77 said:

Taking the 3D effect out of it could boost the battery life considerably as well. I think Nintendo have heard peoples opinions with regards to the 3ds and have built a budget machine that fills a niche that customers have.

soundcircus

#146

soundcircus said:

Nintendo need to leave the 'big home console market' and instead put all their power and might in to what they do best (most of the time) and that's make handhelds.

The Nintendo next Gen handheld will be a non clam shell like the Wii U game pad, but around the same size as the PS Vita. It will be non 3D, have at least a 720p screen, have a powerful NVidia chip, Gorilla glass type display, HDMI out so one can plug it in to a TV/Monitor if one wishes, though the device would still primarily be a handheld. It would also have a HD camera for game interaction, and be Skype type enabled for video chat.

They would bring back the Game Boy branding and the device would be called - Game Boy Extreme.

I can dream can't I?

LetsGoRetro

#147

LetsGoRetro said:

@Kirk

I read your comment just fine. Whether or not you meant the current Wii U model or not, your stance / conditions for purchase are unreasonable.

I believe that is the price the Wii dropped to in it's final year ( ahnd then finally 99.99 at the very, very end. Please correct me if I'm wrong)

So, what you're saying is, you won't purchase Nintendo's console until they drop the price of it to what the Wii was in it's 5th year?

Well, being as how the Wii started at a much lower price than the Wii U, wouldn't that tell you that the Wii U is then likely to take atleast that long, if ever?

Wasn't the Wii 249.99 when it came out? How the heck can they get a 349.99 consol that low, man?

Unless you're the type to swoop in at the end of the generation when the next-gen is coming out and buy everything at it's lowest price, then more power to ya, I guess.

I just love my gaming hobby, and for that reason I like to be current and enjoy games as they come out, play with friends online, discuss them online, etc. To miss out on all that and be 3 or 4 years late to save 50 to 100 bucks? Eh, to each his own. I'll just pick up an extra shift at work.

I don't know, shouldn't bother me, of course. I just wanna see my favorite gaming company succeed, so they keep providing me with these excellent games. It doesn't help them when their potential customers are only willing to buy under unrealistic circumstances.

As a sidenote, if you are in a situation where you are struggling financially then i realize you may not have the option to choose, and I apologize if that's the case.

LetsGoRetro

#148

LetsGoRetro said:

@GazPlant

I don't understand your logic. You need it proven to you that the Gamepad is necessary? Well... It's not. Every other system ever cn attest to that.

CD players, iPOD inputs, built-in GPS & televisions in my car aren't necessary, either. But they sure don't hurt my driving experience. What is wrong with having more options?

I could maybe see your point if the gamepad was this completely akward design that changed around all the buttons to fit the screen, but it's literally the same exact setup as another controller, just with a screen in the middle. Why can't it just be a system with another option?

Some games do make cool use of it. Rayman Legends has great, unique gameplay. Think of calling plays in Madden or another NFL gamek your friend can't see which plays you're picking. What about an FPS? Now you can sneak up on your fiwnd better cuz he canlt just look at your side of the splitscreen to see what you're gonna do.

Maybe it'll never live up to it's full potential. Who knows? It'll certainly need to be there. But it'll have plenty of instances where it'll be better, or if nothing else, different, that it's there. It's a new experience. Embrace it for what it is.

LetsGoRetro

#149

LetsGoRetro said:

@coalmoore

Well, I'd always need the ability to connect to a tv, but I'd be just fine with your idea if it was a home/portable hybrid. Essentially, a portable that connects to the TV and becomes the controller when it does.

Game Boy again, huh? Nah, this'd be a grown up version of a Game Boy. I got it! The Game Man!

Ok, here's what I want you to do. You know the "I'm a PC" slogan? Well, let's take that. I want you to start proudly proclaiming to everyone "I'm a GameMan", just make sure you say "gameman" nice n fast, k?

Trust me on this.

Kirk

#150

Kirk said:

"As a sidenote, if you are in a situation where you are struggling financially then i realize you may not have the option to choose, and I apologize if that's the case."

Bingo!

ancientlii

#151

ancientlii said:

they might was well posted a podcast or video

i get the feeling the nintendo consoles conflict each other, since the 3ds is getting alot of it's own versions of big games i don't feel like i need or want a wiiU also there just something about street pass that's sooooo satisfying. wiiU's competition is the 3ds

Joygame51

#152

Joygame51 said:

Good for the parents of the Kiddies... they needed a less expensive alternative to the pricey 3DS without the problem of 3D for the little tykes. Good deal...stop grousing you Teens and 20 somethings.... its not meant for you.
Nor for the Oldies like me. But, Good for the Kiddies and great for Nintendo.

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