News Article

Soapbox: Why We Should Expect More From The Legend Of Zelda: Wind Waker HD

Posted by Rory Cocker

Rory Cocker gets on his high Hyrulian horse about Nintendo's remaster

The Zelda community is almost infamously inflammatory and prone to knee-jerk reactions. I should know; I’m part of it. From my brief stint at this site, though, I’ve noticed that the Nintendo Life readership – that’s your fine selves – is a bit more level headed and accepting of criticism aimed at Nintendo. With that in mind, I urge you to fully read this article in its entirety before drafting out your hate mail and throwing your rotten fruit in my general direction.

Now, before I raise my flame shield, let me just clear something up. If you know anything about me: The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker is my favourite game of all time. So with that being the case, it’s only natural that my views on any possible remake would be fairly strong, one way or the other. Still, I must say that I’m really quite disappointed with what I’ve seen of the upcoming HD remaster so far.

These are fears that stemmed right from the initial announcement, right up until when I actually got to go hands-on with the game. Obviously the game isn’t out yet, and I should probably reserve final judgment until I’ve played the end product — but I don’t generally get to review games for Nintendo Life, so this may be my only opportunity to vent.

The phrase ‘half-arsed’ is practically synonymous with remakes and remasters, but to me, that’s exactly what Wind Waker HD feels like. After watching the trailers, I was worried that the game was going to be little more than a quick up-res, and the time I spent with the game did nothing to alleviate my concerns.

Before I crack on with the negatives, let me just acknowledge the improvements that Nintendo is making to the game:

  • Full 1080p
  • Miiverse integration
  • Off-TV Play
  • Faster sailing

OK, that’s that. Now here are the reasons that make me think Nintendo are perhaps being a little bit lazy with this port, in ascending order of offensiveness.

Personal tastes aside, Wind Waker is one of the most visually arresting video games ever produced — there’s no denying that — and its art style really pops and comes to life in high definition. The trouble is, if you asked me which 3D Zelda game most needs an HD remake, Wind Waker would be the last game I’d pick. It already looks great in standard definition. I honestly think Nintendo got their Zelda remakes the wrong way around; Wind Waker should have been on the 3DS, whilst the Wii U probably should have received a fully-fledged remake of Ocarina of Time. That would potentially have sold hundreds of thousands of systems.

Due to, shall we say, not strictly official methods, Zelda fans have actually been able to play Wind Waker in HD for the best part of three years now. And it arguably looks better via emulation, as it can be rendered at twice the resolution that Wind Waker HD for Wii U will ship in, with an added injection of anti-aliasing for good measure.

When Nintendo first showed the game off back in January, they promised to ‘tune up the overall game experience’. But what did that mean, exactly? New dungeons? Refined combat? An easier and less infuriating way to change the direction of the wind? Again, Wind Waker is my favourite game of all time, but even I recognise that, mechanically speaking, it’s not a perfect game, and it seemed like Nintendo could have changed any number of things. And what did they actually do? They made the boat go a bit faster.

They honestly couldn’t have implemented the Wind Waker on the touch screen in some capacity to make navigating the sea that bit more enjoyable? I’m not saying get rid of the rhythm mini-game entirely; you could still have it for changing the time of day and for fast travel, but having to stop to change the wind direction every 30 seconds wasn’t my idea of fun. Like the iron boots in the water temple in the Ocarina of Time 3DS remake, I thought for sure this was something Nintendo would have fixed.

I know that The Wind Waker can be played by using touch gestures instead of using the analog sticks, but that’s not the same; drawing a line on the GamePad to seamlessly change the wind direction without having to stop would have been fantastic, and something that I feel would be fairly easy to implement.

Now, it’s all well and good saying “we wanted to stay true to the original game”, but that excuse doesn’t fly with me. If I want to play the original game, I’ll go and play the original game. I’ve got a GameCube, I’ve got a WaveBird and I’ve got an original copy of The Wind Waker. The excuse for not including the cut dungeons was also disappointing. They got used in future games? OK, so make new ones! Although it hasn't been confirmed yet, this will almost certainly be a full-price retail title, just as the 3DS version of Ocarina of Time was. We may not see it as a ‘new game’, but Nintendo clearly does. This is one of the Wii U’s biggest titles going into the Holiday period, so is a new dungeon or two really so much to ask for? Are we being unrealistic by actually expecting some new content? Again, this isn’t some pocket change, eShop download; it’s a full price purchase.

I’m not one of these people who subscribes to the idea that Nintendo milks their franchises more than any other publisher; lazy HD remasters aren’t exactly a new thing to the industry. In fact, one of my most treasured possessions is the ICO & Shadow of the Colossus HD Collection for PlayStation 3, a package which also offered very little in the way of new content. However, I feel there are a few key distinctions to make here.

1. ICO & Shadow of the Colossus HD Collection was a budget release. It launched at $40 in the US, and you can pick it up in the UK now for around £15. Not only that, but Sony actually put it up as one of the games in the PlayStation Plus library, meaning it was free to anyone who was a member during the month of June.

2. It’s two games, not one. True, they’re shorter games than Wind Waker, but in the eyes of many players, they’re arguably just as good.

3. ICO may have been critically acclaimed, but it posted average numbers at retail. On the PS2, ICO sold less than 500,000 units worldwide. It’s obvious that the collection was a way of getting more people to experience the game — something which I recommend every single one of you do immediately, by the way.

An ICO HD remaster probably wouldn’t have sold too hot, either, explaining the decision to bundle it with Shadow of the Colossus, which is arguably Japan Studio’s most well-known and revered game. Either way, it’s a win-win for the consumer. Wind Waker, on the other hand, sold over 4.5 million copies, so I don’t think Nintendo can justify the release in this way. Of course, I’m not saying Nintendo needs to ‘justify’ its releases to me; I know I’m not that important, and I know that most Nintendo fans are going to lap this game up regardless because, hey, it’s ‘new’ Zelda. I just think that there’s a certain standard and a certain precedent that we’ve come to expect from Nintendo, and in particular, The Legend of Zelda.

I’ve completed the original game countless times, and when when I watched the first trailer for the HD remake, I could instantly tell that every single frame of animation was identical to how it was on the GameCube. The scene where the two Bokoblins drop down atop Outset Island, right at the start of the game, is as wooden as ever. That’s fine; I don’t expect Nintendo to build a brand new engine for a remaster.

What’s not fine, though, is the fact that Wind Waker HD is still using the exact same combat system that it was in 2003. Say what you want about Twilight Princess, but its combat system was arguably the best in the series. The way that you could freely initiate shield bashes, helm splitters and the back slice was such a step up from Wind Waker’s wait-until-your-controller-vibrates-and-then-press-‘A’, that using this system again is going to feel like such a backwards step. I’m not even asking for motion controls, just something a bit more involved than hitting the A button whenever there’s an on-screen prompt.

Perhaps the biggest offense, though, is Nintendo’s insistence once again to use MIDI for the soundtrack. You can’t release an orchestral CD for Zelda’s 25th anniversary, with stunningly arranged compositions from Wind Waker, and then do the remake in MIDI. You just can’t do that. Wind Waker has arguably some of the best music in any Zelda game, and by extension, some of the best music in any video game ever created. To not take advantage of that is almost criminal. The Wii U uses optical discs with 25GB of capacity. For crying out loud, Nintendo, use it!

When all’s said and done, new Zelda is new Zelda, and I’ve been looking for an excuse to play through The Wind Waker again for a while now. Maybe I’m part of the problem; I’ll buy it, I’ll play it and I’ll probably love it, but at the back of my mind, it’s going to be hard to shake off the thought of what could have been, had Nintendo just invested a little more time, and maybe taken a little more initiative. I can see the counter-arguments now: if I don’t like it, don’t buy it, right? Frankly, that attitude doesn't help anything, and it’s one that Nintendo really can’t afford to have right now. HD remasters are clearly a good thing, but when you're talking about a game as seminal as Wind Waker — and expecting people to pay top dollar — then just upscaling the visuals isn't enough, in my humble opinion.

Do you agree with Rory's stance on Wind Waker HD? (447 votes)

Yes, Wind Waker HD feels like a lazy port to me


No, this is a legendary game and I'd pay twice the price to enjoy it in HD


I didn't play the game on GameCube so I don't share his misgivings


I'll be picking it up but I don't really have a strong opinion on the matter


I won't be buying Wind Waker so I couldn't care less


Please login to vote in this poll.

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User Comments (257)



SanderEvers said:

They didn't just update the visuals, they also improved the shadows which makes the game feel a lot better than the original. Also they wanted to keep it as close as possible to the original. And I thank them for that!



bezerker99 said:

I agree with you on almost all your points. However, I am perfectly OK with this being the Zelda title they chose to remake. I'm totally in agreement with you in that the deleted dungeons should have been included in this remake. Also, Nintendo should have made a faster way to control the direction of the wind.

Oh, and I preordered the game at Gamestop and it was $59.99.



World said:

Well, I could see the logic behind this. Wind Waker is probably the easiest and certainly the friendliest-looking of the 3D Zelda games. It's very accessible and arguably didn't get a chance to shine on the Gamecube, due to its relatively low sales. I don't necessarily see the point of remaking a game that isn't even ten years old (it isn't, it? If it is, man time flies), but I'm not Nintendo and I could see people being captured by this.

All of that being said...MIDI, really? Nothing puts me off more than that because nothing else really needed to be updated more than that. MIDI can't even play the retro charm card. It was never charming, and now it feels like visiting an early-HTML Zelda fansite.



MAB said:

This is my favourite out of all the LOZ series so me no complain... Comprende



fluggy said:

Never understood this remake. . . a pointless exercise! Shoulda just sold the original on eshop n remade a different game. They could've made a directors cut with the lost dungeons etc, but ... No ... we get the exact same experience as the original thats still in my library. NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Wouldn't pay more than £8 for this laziest of remakes!



Lin1876 said:

I absolutely agree with practically everything that was said in that article. If Nintendo released this as a £20 eShop game I would be just fine with that (though I would have preferred Majora's Mask). However, to release a decade old game with minor tweaks and proclaim it as a new game, with pricing to match, is borderline deceit which I refuse to tolerate.

In short, as an owner of the GameCube original, I have no intention of buying The Wind Waker HD. Full Stop.



Gen0neD said:

I agree with every point made here. Wind Waker was actually my least favorite Zelda, next to Skyward Sword ( that's right I said it ) This game's saving grace for me was the animation itself, which was incredibly well done, but the aforementioned points made in this article highlight why its my least favorite Zelda. I'm on the fence on buying this. I might... I might...

And yes, Wind Waker feels like a lazy port to me.



Nareva said:

Do we know this will come in at full price or is that just your assumption? If the release price is as high as you say, then I agree with everything you've written, if it's priced around $30 USD, I won't be so critical. If it is on the more expensive side I'll probably wait for a price drop, which will come about...never.



Extreeeme said:

I think it's not fair to pay a full price for Wind Waker HD. We're expecting something more than an expensive remake and they should know it.



GearsOfWarU said:

I've never played this... This article has me worried about buying a 10year old lazy port any thoughts of what to do? Buy or Pass?




^^ Buy it. Don't listen to the author. If you haven't played it before and don't have a GCN, then you'll want to experience it.



Matthew94 said:

Sounds like the OP is full of poopiedoodledingdongs.

What about the fact that the game is expensive as love and people who haven't played it before (i.e a lot of people) might want to buy it just to play it, hence the reason for a re-release.



Megumi said:

Only thing I'm disappointed in is that the canned dungeons and all that still won't be in the game. :c
Hoping they'll do something more with the 2nd quest playthrough too, like...a Master Quest or at least just make all enemies do more damage.



akabenjy said:

Aonuma already said that they can't include the omitted dungeons because they were included in subsequent games. You work for a Nintendo website how do you not know this by now?



swordx said:

I'm not getting this game unless there are one of three things: a master quest, new islands, or new dungeons. That's coming from a die-hard Zelda fan. They need to bring new things to the table.



edhe said:

You've made some great points. You've actually made me think twice about getting it (at full price at least). This deserves to be on the 3DS, not the WiiU - as barren as its release schedule is.



WiiLovePeace said:

I agree with a few of the points Rory brings up but like the sucker I am I'll still buy it since it's new Zelda haha. It'll still be fun & that's enough for me, good article though



Warruz said:

Problem with this whole articles is the terming.

What the article wants is a Re Creation of Wind Waker, much like what Oddworld is doing with New N Tasty

What it is , is an HD Remake which is essentially a new coat of paint and some quality of life changes. Much like once again with oddworld with Strangers Wrath and Strangers Wrath HD



Madmanonfire said:

I'm going to have to disagree here because that's the logical thing to do at this point. It's an HD remake, yet the author wants a bunch of changes to make it less Wind Waker after assuming that the game will be full price. Nobody should take this article seriously until the price is announced.
Also, there are people, like myself, who never played much Wind Waker in the past or at all, so I want to experience the game for what it was, without all these unneeded additions. The game's sound still holds up and we don't need new dungeons.
It's not a new Zelda, it's a remake. Apparently the OP and a bunch of commentors don't understand what a remake is or should be.




I'm excited for Wind Waker HD. I sold my cube games during the early years of the Wii (needed cash).

HD graphics (it simply wasn't upgraded to HD...the lighting and shadowing look better), off t.v. playability, faster sailing, Miiverse integration, not to mention that it's actually something to PLAY on Wii U...all assure that I will be picking it up on day one.

Only thing I agree with you on is not having it orchestrated. And what rhythm-mini game are you talking about? Using the WW? That's not a rhythmic mini game >_<



Gunorgunorg said:

If the entire combat system was changed it wouldn't be the game that came out all those years ago. They said they would make an HD remake that enhanced the gameplay experience, and that is exactly what they are doing. Sailing the Great Ocean took incredibly long, and I like the fast boat.



ramstrong said:

Due to, shall we say, not strictly official methods, Zelda fans have actually been able to play Wind Waker in HD for the best part of three years now. And it arguably looks better via emulation, as it can be rendered at twice the resolution that Wind Waker HD for Wii U will ship in, with an added injection of anti-aliasing for good measure.

I don't know whether or not you're advocating piracy or urging Nintendo to port their games to PC. I doubt you mean the former, but I don't think Nintendo will do the latter.



grenworthshero said:

Yes, the author is complaining that it's not a re-creation with a bunch of changes, that's to be expected at $60. The game is 10 years old and full price. That's unacceptable. I don't care how much work it took to remake; it's not like they're creating an entirely new game. They have a finished product, and they tweak it to be better. That does not warrant a full-price release.



MetalKingShield said:

The only bit I strongly disagreed with is the idea Wind Waker should have been remade on 3DS instead of Wii U. 3DS is a great handheld, but I don't think it could have handled Wind Waker. Controls would definitely be an issue, so might graphics, but the main problem would be the sub-SD resolution. Most 3DS ports of PS2/Wii games have seemed not-so-good to me.



Terpor said:

Nintendo could just put the two Wind Waker sequel on the disc as bonus, since i didn't want to play them on the DS because i didn't like to play them with Stylus



TG1 said:

I'd add that removing the tingle tuner could be another sign of a "lazy" port.



Mahe said:

We should expect more than Wind Waker HD from the Zelda team.



MrGawain said:

The game is proportionally something not that many people have played because they didn't own a Gamecube , plus a whole new generation have been born since. They'll come up with some clever ways to use the gamepad and add a little sparkle to the graphics, filling up the Wii U's Autumn line up with a sort of game the Wii u is lacking.

I very much doubt any shop will be selling this at Nintendo's RRP. If you don't want to buy it, you don't have to! I am though, as I've never played it.



QBertFarnsworth said:

The lost dungeons (or adding new dungeons if the lost dungeons have already been used) seems like a missed opportunity. Other than that, I'm all for the remake. I cannot stand black bars on the side of the screen to play games in their original aspect ratio, and I cannot stand images stretched out to get rid of the black bars on modern TVs, so a widescreen, HD re-release is fine by me. The original game looked great, but I don't want to play it on an old TV to see the graphics at their sharpest.



erv said:

Oh I disagree.

Choosing the wind waker is so, so right from an art perspective, and using the wand in order to change the wind is part of the core gameplay. Not every make-it-easier option is an increase in experience.

I also don't like the faster boat thing: I absolutely loved the sailing to another island, the getting lost at sea feeling, the duration and you yourself getting over to an island for pre-meditated business or starting something new by stumbling upon one in the middle of the ocean. Faster boats risk the core experience there. And 3ds? Why did the cell shading become a 3ds thing? I know it worked on the ds for a few games, but that ship has sailed. It worked so much better on the big screen - I want it back.

Really, this is the best choice for a remake they could have done. It will also ring the "we are different" bell in any right way again. I do hope that, however, we'll be talking about a lower price point due to the remake it ultimately is. But well, that's about it.

Get out of the ocarina shells and smell the possibilities of the future. I hope the team developing the new zelda can truly let go of the ocarina of time game concept as a boundary and push the series forward on the wii U.



Damo said:

@Nareva Ocarina of Time on 3DS was full price. Given Nintendo's prior form, I think it's safe to assume this will be, too.



Damo said:

@akabenjy Did you even read the piece?

12th paragraph:

"The excuse for not including the cut dungeons was also disappointing. They got used in future games? OK, so make new ones!"



gilvelez1 said:

Its going to be great.
Looks like the crowd is divided on the subject evenly. 42% agree with 42% (added up) that don't in one way or another.



Gate_Shikimuri said:

I'm not buying it because it's a new Zelda, because its not. I'm buying it so I can relive the experience. These are two different points (new Zelda vs. relive experience) that justify buying it. Heck, I bet most people are buying it just to relive the experience.

Please respect that everyone has differing opinions. Please respect my right to one.



rmeyer said:

@grenworthshero most have never played it before. It's still better than most games out these days. I think selling it less than 60 would be belittling the product



Nintenjoe64 said:

I'm excited about it, I will buy it and I will enjoy it more than I did the first time but this is nothing more than a cynical(ish) cash-in from Nintendo and they chose this game because, graphically, it needs less changing to make it look modern and it didn't make the commercial impact of Ocarina or Twilight.

The most worrying thing for me is that this sets a trend of 'no GC games on Wii U VC' if Nintendo can up-res their games and sell them near full price at retail. I don't think I am the only day-one Wii-U owner who thought they'd have a sniff of playing GC classics on the gamepad VC by now.

On the other hand, Nintendo might have said they're not adding dungeons or changing the quests but that doesn't mean there won't be surprises.

@Damo (or whoever gets the review) please absolutely slaughter Nintendo if there is nothing decent added to the game. They need to learn that we'd have preferred to play GC games emulated at 1080p or 480p on gamepad than be charged £40 for a game that is probably taking development resources away from other projects... (like Project HAMMER!)



redsoul91 said:

That's fair. I was unaware that they were just going to be using the MIDIs instead of orchestrating the sound track, and that I agree is a huge flaw. It could be argued that it adds to nostalgia i suppose (which I can appreciate), but that was one of the things I was waiting to bless my ears with. :/

I think one of the important things t remember though, is that this game is basically an exercise for the Zelda developers for how to use the Wii U dev kits to meet max potential. I'm personally grateful that they're using their practice on a game!

I will still probably pick this up, as Windwaker is probably my favorite game too, but we will have to see what kind of updates come up.



onlyaman said:

"Not only that, but Sony actually put it up as one of the games in the PlayStation Plus library, meaning it was free to anyone who was a member during the month of June."

FYI- Only Shadow of the Colossus was free. Ico was not included. But yes, I agree- PS Plus is the best deal in gaming right now (outside of crazy Steam sales).



ueI said:

Although some of your complaints-mainly the MIDI-seem like you're clutching at straws, I ultimately agree that this is a lazy remake. I believe this may be the 1st Zelda remake to include no new content over the original. The cut dungeons would be the most obvious inclusions, and Nintendo's reasoning in this regard is poor. What difference does it make if the dungeons are nothing new when this entire game is nothing new?
In spite of all this, I agree with the decision to remake the Wind Waker. The original isn't playable on the WiiU, making this a great opportunity for those who missed out 10 years ago.



rmeyer said:

I saw it at best buy and I got to play it. It looked fantastic and played well. It was the best feeling Zelda I've ever played albeit short. I've never played past the first part of Wind Waker and this gives me more interest. It's a good holiday game that fits well with the other games and it wil encourage gamers and non gamers to pick up a Wii U rather than have only donkey kong.



MMLgamer said:

Ugh. Why on this earth would they want to make wind control faster? What's the point of having wind at all? You're not supposed to have easy control of it. Such a request is arrogant and to grant such a request would cheapen the wind's overall role in the world of Wind Waker. Show some respect.



C7_ said:

... This is hilarious.
You honestly said you'd prefer YET ANOTHER Ocarina of Time remake rather than an HD windwaker with more features. Which, by the way, has been confirmed to have more features, and we have no idea what those are. You listed 4 features that we know of, and indeed there are more than that. Better inventory management for a start, and an improvement on the triforce collecting aspect as well.

I'd also like to point out that this game isn't even necessarily for fans of the game. It's a side-project that the Zelda team took up when they were messing with art styles for the new game. They just decided to make this a full project, which means that they don't want to make a huge deal out of remaking LITERALLY EVERY ASPECT of the original that you're talking about. They're still devoted to the other 2 Zelda's (yes, that means the team is working on 3 zelda games at the same time), which means that the remake will not be getting the amount of attention the hardcore fans want out of it. So no, it is not acceptable to EXPECT a fully orchestrated soundtrack out of this. More likely they're just doing this to promote the Zelda series to new fans while pleasing the old ones.

Edit: And no, we don't have a price yet, so it is not fair to assume that it is going to be $60 until they actually release it. and if it is $60, I will be both astonished and incredibly disappointed with Nintendo.



SideScreamer said:

Favorite Zelda of all time.. but I completely agree. Lazy port. Nothing majorly exciting. I'll still buy it day one though. And an Ocarina of Time HD MAY have just been what Nintendo needed this Holiday if this game doesn't help ship consoles.



zeldazero said:

Honestly, if they remade every Zelda game in HD I'd buy them all. An original Zelda made with HD Link to the past graphics would be amazing and a definite buy no matter the price.



CowLaunch said:

Rory Cocker, I am in your debt.

You've said everything that I've stated, wanted to say, and more.

It's a lazy port that is indicative of Nintendo of late.



Blue_Yoshi said:

Ya know I feel what this guy is saying completely, and that's the problem with Nintendo is that they just don't seem to get it but I feel like he's bashing on it to much. I know it looks exactly like on Gamecube but that's still not the point. It's only meant to hold us Zelda fans over for the real game. Kind of like how they brought Master Quest to America when Wind Waker was going to get released. Plus I remember hearing somewhere that the game would retail at $40, something that Game and Wario has tried and succeeded without a doubt, I was on vacation when it came out so when I went to Gamestop a week later I had got the last copy they had. It's already sold out after like a week which is unheard of for a Wii U game.



Collinhall said:

I was SO disappointed that the game doesn't have an orchestrated soundtrack. I am really considering skipping this title simply because of the little-to-no new features.



TreesenHauser said:

Like the 22% that voted for the third choice (at the time of writing this comment), I never got the chance to play this on its original console, so I have no beef with this HD port. To me and some others, it WILL be an all-new game so I have no issue paying $60 for it.

Used copies of it for GameCube on Amazon are going for $35, and that copy doesn't even come with the artwork--just the disc and the case. I'd rather shell out an extra $25 to have the whole thing, in high-definition and designed for my Wii U console.

With that being said, I can understand this writer's misgivings for the new version of this game. However, I can't share them. I can't wait for the game!



Yorumi said:

This is really the exact same problem I had with OOT3ds and starfox64 3d, I just can't justify paying full price for a game I know every last secret in that has nothing new. If even just 3 or 4 new dungeons were added, sold, no question. A remake itself doesn't cost as much to make as an original game so cut the price or give us a few new things that are worthwhile(oot's boss rush isn't what I consider worthwhile).



Dreamcaster-X said:

One of my most anticipated titles this year and it's a remake!!! That statement speaks volumes to me!!!



evanescent_hero said:

Boo hoo.

It's a remake. Not a director's cut, not a reimagining, a remake. Would I have liked the old dungeons? Yes, but I'm not going to demand they make new ones if they already used the ones they had to cut. Would I mind a new way to control the wind? No, but the old way is fine and it's already been streamlined. (Looks like it doesn't play the jingle and cutscene every time anymore, plus you're highly exaggerating how often you legitimately need to change the direction.) Besides, the speedier boat more than makes up for the time it takes to play the Wind's Requiem.

And the combat system? The combat system is fine. The points you make about Twilight Princess are null to anyone who never got those skills (remember that every single thing besides the Ending Blow was one hundred percent optional!) and if you're gonna compare the combat system to anything, how about Skyward Sword?

Man, you must have absolutely hated OoT3D, because it has every "problem" you're complaining about here. Where are the dungeons that were cut from the original? Why does it have the same outdated, crappy combat system? Why do I still have to play a song to summon Epona?

We don't know every change to the game yet, so don't act like we do. You also neglected to mention gyro controls for aiming and looking around. Plus we know the inventory is on the GamePad screen at all times, meaning you can swap it around without pausing the game. Plus, while sailing, things like your grappling hook and your cannon are always equipped, so you can still have three items equipped without having to swap when you want treasure. AND there will undoubtedly be more changes; if nothing else, I kinda expect a Master Quest mode.

I agree about the music, which is also the biggest problem I had with OoT3D. But this is a remake, a side project, and simply something to hold us over until we get the new Wii U Zelda. No one ever said this was a new Zelda game, so stop judging it like they did.



Yorumi said:

@evanescent_hero that's a rather rude response to this. You don't have to agree with what's being said but you don't need to be a jerk about it either.



PinkSpider said:

Interesting, if patcher had these same views I bet this community would be full of anger and hate.
That being said I completely agree with these opinions



Beta said:

And what about us who didn't play the original and had no access to it? Played it before? Nobody forced you to play it again! You guys complain too much, it's like complaining is oxygen to you. Chill out, they don't owe you to make what EXACTLY you imagine. Come on, people, just live reality, you won't get all you want and nobody is forcing you to buy anything.

@evanescent_hero Agreed.



Yorumi said:

@Beta and what exactly is so wrong about expressing an opinion about a game? He explained his thoughts on the game in a very logical manner and even specifically said in the article he doesn't believe he's so important to get exactly what he wants, heck he even said he's probably going to buy the game anyway. Why does it seem like so many people are being so rude, can you not at least understand his opinion and disagree without attacking him?



triforcepower73 said:

The only points I agree with you on are the changing the wind issue and the midi soundtrack. I absolutely love the wind waker's soundtrack but(this goes for all zelda games' soundtracks) the midi really hides how good the music is. For example, until the symphony of the goddesses performance I didn't realize how awesome the ballad of the windfish is. Real musicians in a real orchestra put a soundtrack on a completely different level than midi.

And in response to all the people that are complaining about no new features and charging full retail price for the remakes, these(remakes) are for people that haven't experienced the original game yet. To us it's like buying a brand new game. So I'm absolutely fine with paying full price for a remake if I haven't played it before. Oot was old enough to do a remake of because it was made before I and much of nintendo's fanbase was born. Same with starfox 64 3D. Wind waker on the other hand didn't sell very well so nintendo wanted to let as many people experience the masterpiece as they could. That's the reason for a remake. To let more people experience a game.

Do you have a problem with nintendo wanting to let me play their game in the most convenient way possible for myself, Rory? I don't have a gamecube and have never played the wind waker, but I do have a wii u so why would I spend extra money on an old system that would take up extra space just to play one game?



C7_ said:

@evanescent_hero if only these comments had upvotes or something along those lines, I would give you all of my support. This is literally everything that needed to be said in response.



Rezalack said:

I've never played the original, so I'm kind of looking forward to this. It'll be a whole new experience and one of my excuses for eventually picking up a Wii U.



Shambo said:

@GearsOfWarU Since you never played it, I suggest you buy it. It's a cartoony work of art.

The Gamecube version is probably almost equally good -it doesn't get much better- so if you still have a Gamecube, you can get it on there for cheaper, or in the still very pricey Collector's edition with OoT and OoT Master Quest (which by the standards here could be considered the laziest remake ever, or just the definitive version of one of the greatest games ever) included, in a nice golden box (at least in PAL region, don't know for sure about the others).



CowLaunch said:

That they released this game unfinished the first time is bad enough, that they are doing so again is just pathetic.

Wind Waker: Was released on GameCube
Pikmin 3: Originally planned to be on GameCube
Super Mario 3D World: Could have been on GameCube

These all look like good games, but if you're asking people to buy an HD console, you need to provide more.

These kind of games are ok after you've released epic titles after you've shifted a few systems. But right now Nintendo has nothing, there doesn't appear to be anything in sight, and the Wii U looks ridiculous.



Yorumi said:

@triforcepower73 The problem with saying it's for people who havn't played it is you'd still get to play it if it had extra content. When people complain about this they're not saying don't make the game, they're saying just throw a few extras in. Even one or two optional dungeons that are just side quests whatever would help.

Even ignoring that though, why charge full price? How about no new content but sell it for $40 instead of $60? That doesn't stop you from playing it either.



SpinelessOyster said:

Some extras would have been nice, but I've never played the original. (I know, I'm disappointed in myself too.) So I am definetly looking forward to it as is



unrandomsam said:

@Shambo The Gamecube version of OOT is still the only 60hz version released in PAL regions that you can run on a TV. (They could have put the Master Quest on at 60hz without breaking their own silly policies for the Wii VC). It is the only one worth playing. (Or 3DS if you want but it looks awful on the 3DS XL).



triforcepower73 said:

@Yorumi It would've been nice if it had been $40 but like I said I have no problem with the full price. In fact I just preordered it yesterday. The people that are complaining about the price are the ones that have already played it and are complaining about no new features as well and should therefore be uninterested in it. Y'all are bashing it enough to where someone looking at this comments section, wondering if he should get it or not would probably think it's not worth getting and opt not to get it.



Epicnessofme99 said:

The only thing I'd want them to add in is like a developer commentary or something of that sort, similar to the Shadow of the Colossus and Ico collection. I don't think extra dungeons would've been necessary either, most people just didn't have a chance to get the game and the prices on the game have gone up so I can see why they would choose this game over the others that are either available on the Virtual Console or are already on the Wii (Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess).



bassoongoon said:

I agree that Ocarina made HD would be really cool, and sell a lot of Wii Us. Although I would like that, I am still going to be picking up WWHD



SyntheticPerson said:

I agree with you to an extent. My initial reaction about a HD update for WW was "why?". The great thing about the cel shaded graphics was that it stands the test of time. Wind waker still looks beautiful, even now.

Don't get me wrong, the visual updates are nice, but it would have been nicer to see Majora get the HD treatment.

As for the changes, I guess i'll wait and see if there are any surprises in store. If it is just a HD update, a faster boat, and the Tingle stuff, then i'll be disappointed. I will still buy it though, but it won't be my priority. W101, Sonic, and DK rank higher...



Kirk said:

Well, it doesn't feel like a totally lazy port but I know they could have done more.

I mean they have actually added full dynamic lighting and shadows to the entire world that weren't in the original version, which is certainly something I personally wanted to see.

There's also the rather cool message in a bottle thing and the whole Miiverse integration.

Other than that though I don't think they've done too much else (speeding up the boat is a minor tweak).

The game still looks great though so I guess it's not like there's actually anything you can really complain about regarding what's there and it's more just a case of what you would have liked to have added or expanded upon etc.

As long as they don't actually charge full price for an HD remaster then I won't be too upset.

What I would love to see however is the new proper Wii U Zelda game use this whole cel-shaded style again but really take it to the next level...

Full 1080p HD graphics with amazing realtime lighting and shadows on everything, but still retaining a very cartoon Manga look, this time using the more "adult" or non-deformed character designs from the likes of Ocarina of Time or Skyward Sword...



Einherjar said:

What did he expect ? A completely revamped game ? I bet that he would then complain that it isnt "his wind waker anymore".
It is simply what it says on the tin: Wind Waker HD, nothing more, nothing less.
Nintendo never did anything major to re-releases. Maybe a couple of stages here and there for a Mario game, but that isnt rocket science.
Having to integrate, say, a new dungeon would be far more complicated. If it has a new item, the item needs to be implemented into the whole gaming world or it would just take up space for that one dungeon alone. If it has no new item..."boo hoo, a dungeon without an item, that not a zelda game anymore, worst game ever"
People will complain about ANYTHING nowadays...You could gift them the game and they would still whine "but i played it before, i wished it would be a new game"



RedYoshi999 said:

I'm looking forward to it's release, and I'm even prepared to pay full price for it. Sure, the lack of new content is a bit disappointing, but I feel like there is more Nintendo hasn't revealed yet. And it is a remake, so you can't expect them to alter the game into something it never was. I've been looking for an excuse to play through this wonderful game again, and this is the perfect way to breathe life back into the experience.

With OOT3D's release, I was genuinely annoyed that the music in the game hadn't been orchestrated, because it was quite old and would've been amazing to update. But I can see the argument of keeping the nostalgia of the original intact and Wind Waker's music isn't dated enough for me to care that it isn't orchestrated.

However, I do question Nintendo's overall choice to remake Wind Waker. It doesn't exactly cry out "remake me in HD" because the art style is just so timeless. I'm rather disappointed they didn't choose Majora's Mask (my favourite game ever) which is much more dated and played by even less people, and actually deserves a HD remake. But that would have required Nintendo to put more effort in, which is where I believe they are being lazy, by choosing the easiest game to update to 1080p.

I'm still a sucker for any new Zelda game, HD/3D remake or not. Although I do find it very ridiculous that people still want an Ocarina of Time HD remake, I mean how many times do you want that game re-released? Was 3D not good enough for you? Please give other games the chance they deserve!



Other_Dave said:

When I first heard about HD Wind Waker I had no plans to buy it... and I still don't.
I hope they're not planning on doing this with too many Gamecube games. I'd rather just download the original versions from the eShop than pay extra because they've pressed the "Make HD" button.



Wowfunhappy said:

You know what? I can forgive the lack of additional dungeons and gameplay changes, although I fully agree with the article that they should have done more, but its kind of understandable.

You know what isn't understandable? The midi music. I just don't get it. I can't even begin to describe what a missed opportunity it is. I've heard the orchestrated versions of the Wind Waker music. We all have. It's mind blowingly incredible. Why are they using midi in this remake? It DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

I'll still be buying the game because I never actually the original (shame on me I know). But... arrrgh why midi why?



HouseofBees said:

It'll be a port that goes virtually untouched. Nintendo have noticed that fewer people bought Wind Waker originally (I thought it was excellent), and plan to plug a massive gap in real software by re-releasing an old game.

Nintendo is digging its own grave here. The fewer good games the Wii U has, the less viable it looks for the big companies to develop for, and the fewer good games it'll have. Etc, Etc. Nintendo needs to get off their



datamonkey said:

I agree I would have preferred Wind Waker on 3DS, with Ocarina getting an HD remake on Wii U.

Nevermind though, they are both still great games and I look forward to the HD visuals and faster sailing in WW...



burninmylight said:

I was going to skip this remake entirely until I checked Amazon and realized how much my GC copy is worth. Now I'll just sell that for around $40 and get the remake used or marked down.



FritzFrapp said:

You make some good points, Rory. For me, I'm thankful to have the game in widescreen. I'd definitely prefer it on WIi U as I used to spin the camera a lot on the Cube version – though I'd have loved to see the game in 3D as well. Yes, I would like a new dungeon or two, but no biggie for me. Orchestral soundtrack would be very nice, but not a deciding factor. I like the small changes they have made, and I don't want Nintendo spending too much time getting the game out of the door. With the time it takes Nintendo to make a new Zelda, they shouldn't use too many resources, regardless if it's on a remake of one of gaming's greatest games.
Price definitely needs to be sub £30.
I really want that New Play Control version of Chibi Robo to be put on Wii U for the West.



elstif said:

The point is there´s very little value on this remake to pay it as a full price. They might have just make it available on VC like other old games for 10-20€ so I don´t have to undust my gamecube and you dont have to search and buiy and old one to experience it.
I paid 10-20€ for a lot of VC games that I had 20 years ago just for convinience but I will not pay 69.99€ (Pre-order Amazon price) for this.



Mk_II said:

Who says it will be full-price? I think it's more likely to be released at the same level as the Luigi expansion, ie. 30$ / 30 euro. But nobody knows



XyVoX said:

UNLESS im mistaken wasn't this game first time around known to have had various dungeons and game content cut just because of time constraints and then when released every other review attested to as much the game feels way to short so second time around YOU would expect for them to include original content, so yes a VERY lazy port that unless is on some silly reduced deal will not be getting my money.



Yorumi said:

@Mk_II OOT and starfox for 3ds were full price, and amazon is listing it for $60. I'd love it if it was cheaper but all the evidence says otherwise.



fullyilly said:

Controversial opinion I know, but Zelda, as with Mario, essentially died when they stepped out of 2D and into 3D. Zelda 3 - Link to the Past was borderline perfection, as was Super Mario World.



pixypixl said:

Everyone's cry to update music so that it's orchestral is so frustrating to me. It seems like that's all anyone ever wants. Whenever there's talk of a remake it's, "Ooooh, I hope it's orchestral!" I LOVE orchestral music, but it has a specific tone to it; it has its own character. You can't just use it for everything! It's just frustrating because people don't really seem to think about the mood of the game or anything like that. They just want the music orchestral because that's what they like. Changing the music would put a totally different mood on the game. If the music didn't sound like MIDI, then the music would not help me to go back in time, to when I first played this game, in my head. If it were updated, I would feel like I were playing a different game, with a different mood. Nintendo's not going to ship this with bad-sounding music... They will do what they must to make sure that every part of the experience comes to life, as it was intended with its original release. This is NOT a new game. It's just the Wind Waker in HD, and that's what I want. I don't want extra dungeons or stuff changed. That wasn't part of the game. The Wind Waker is a work of art, and it shouldn't be tampered with, adding extra dungeons and new music in just because you can. The graphics being updated to HD make sense, so the game looks good on today's TV screens. Obviously if it was still in SD it would look pretty weird on an HD TV. This was a great game, and a defining one of my childhood, and I am really looking forward to experiencing it again on my modern console!



KAHN said:

there is nothing in this soapbox that i haven't said already, only difference is it's coming from a staff member. nintendo uses the excuse that younger players havent played WW, so they're remaking it, but come on! NO ONE has played ZeldaU, so you're making a game for both audiences. it's a lazy port, nothing new other than a faster boat, i won't be getting this.

but Rory, another OoT remake, really? you want another one? there are enough of those (gamecube version w/masterquest, gamecube version with zelda collectors edition, wii VC, and 3DS remake). we dont need more remakes, we need more original titles!



Dr_Corndog said:

I agree with about half of this piece. I say, save the new dungeons for new Zeldas and improve what's already there instead of trying to make this one into a new game. But they should DEFINITELY not release this at full retail price if that's the route they take (as it seems to be).



ted-k said:

I already have the Gamecube original so with no new content I see no reason at all to buy this remake and I don't know how they can justify the full price.



AJWolfTill said:

COMPLETELY AGREE with this article. I love Wind Waker to pieces but they simply have not shown me a single reason why this game is worth my time.
I did eventually buy Ocarina of Time 3ds, despite already having owning it as well as the master quest addition which came with Wind Waker.
The actual game world and character models in OoT3D did actually change quite drastically though and the addition of Master Quest was a huge deal breaker. About half the screenshots for this game look notably different and I've yet to play it myself but they have done absolutely nothing to make a repurchase meaningfull. The original already had a second Quest, which had a few minor changes such as the Colour Pictobox (which seems to already be openly available in this game) and the costume change, but there was no new gameplay. If they add a Master Quest type New Game Plus mode then I will be happy to buy it.

And yes, coming from someone who went to the Zelda Symphony of the Goddesses concert the lack of an updated soundtrack screams laziness. I'm pretty sure every piece of music in this game has been reorchestrated and covered by fans simply out of love. Yet when Nintendo themselves get a chance to bring this beautiful game to life for the second time they do not even touch this? It boggles the mind

I'm starting to think the only reason why Nintendo haven't made Gamecube games available on the eShop is so that they can optimise sales for this lazy remaster.

Rant over XD



C7_ said:

@CowLaunch I'm sorry, what?
It wasn't "unfinished" it just didn't meet it's original intentions in the design doc because of time constraints. Unfinished implies that they just cut off massive chunks of the game and it is incredibly buggy, which it wasn't. In fact show me a game that had nothing cut out of it during production before you call a game that had a single dungeon cut out unfinished.

I'm going to call you out on your other claims too. The first mention that Pikmin 3 was in development from Miyamoto was in 2007, over half a year after the Wii had been released and therefore any projects for a year before its release would have been developed for the Wii. I've been nearly religiously following Pikmin 3's development since it's been announced and am dissapointed it's taken this long, but I'm not gonna say it's been in development for time frames that are impossible.
If you honestly think Super Mario 3D World could've been on Gamecube then you clearly have not watched videos of it. The HD looks fantastic and the GC couldn't even come close to the disc space required to make a game look that fantastic, nor could it even dream of running smoothly without some massive optimization tricks with some of the levels they've shown off.

And apparently having footage and trailers Wonderful 101, Bayonetta 2, Smash Bros., Donkey Kong Country, Pikmin 3, SM3DW, Sonic Lost World, Mario Kart 8, Project X, and announcing a massive HD Zelda title as well as Yarn Yoshi and a massive amount of eshop titles in the works justifies the statement "doesn't appear to be anything in sight." Yes they're sucking at marketing right now, but you can at least make valid claims.



mozie said:

im still going for this game, my favorite nd i think it was it best one to remake, even before it was announced



LunaticPandora said:

@akabenjy No, he said the IDEAS went into future Zeldas, not the actual dungeon, so now we'll never know what these cut dungeons look like. And if you'd bothered to read the article, you'd know he acknowledged what Anouma said, but doesn't care, and insists they should be in the remake anyway, which I am fully in agreement with. Nintendo is as lazy as crap with their remakes these days, doing the absolute bare minimum and nothing else outside of a couple of gimmick features that take advantage of new controls.



ICHIkatakuri said:

@World I have the exact same opinion about the midi I was hoping it would be released with orchestral recordings of the sound track just they haven't announced it yet. That being said I was really hoping new dungeons, wind control etc were going to be in but as it's one of my favourite Zelda games up there with link to the past so as I no longer own a Wii or GameCube it's going to be nice to have it in my collection. Reserving judgement on all enhancements they are making to this version at the min, especially as the main article missed a small one and as a whole the game may be better for all these little tweaks Nintendo are making



SonataAndante said:

It's stunning how rude some people can be regarding a damn opinion. It's not like he's DEMANDING Nintendo adds a ton of new stuff, he's just saying it'd be a lot better if they did and that, to him, it feels a bit lazy right now. Personally I'm reserving judgement until I see if they did or didn't add anything else of significance. After that, it'll come down to price. I'd say it's fair to assume it's full price based on other recent upgraded ports as well as GameStop and Amazon preorder prices. It bugs me that people act like it's a total crime to want a bit of new content added to an older game though.



World said:

@ICHIkatakuri Of course! No one knows what the final version might look like. And I think re-releasing this one makes good business sense. But MIDI is not (and never was) the way to go if you want to be taken seriously in the market, re-make or not. They might as well have re-done the music with the NES soundchip. (Actually though...that doesn't sound too bad).



Peach64 said:

I pretty much agree with this article in it's entirety. I don't really have a problem with them doing this game, but I think people are going a bit over the top when listing it amongst the 'must have games for Wii U in 2013'.

They should have done it more like the New Play Control series for Wii, as in just upped the resolution, as the original run through the Dolphin emulator in HD looks a lot nicer than this 'remake'. Instead they've probably spent quite a bit of effort on this, too much effort for it to be a budget re-release, but not enough effort to justify full price either, and definitely not enough to make people rush out and buy a new console for.



AlternateButtons said:

You lost me at "A remake of Ocarina of Time" I'm sorry, didn't we already HAVE ONE OF THOSE ALREADY?! I disagree with this opinion entirely. The remake should be nothing more than it is now.



moroboshi said:

The reason for choosing Wind Waker for an HD re-release was really logical and simple - it's clean hand drawn largely flat coloured art and stylised geometry have aged far better than the more realistic Zelda games. They simply upped the size of the frame buffer, dropped in some light maps and bloom, and there you go, an 'HD' re-release.

To produce an HD version of Ocarina would either give you something which looks incredibly dated and essentially non releasable outside of budget territory, or would mean a huge budget the same size as an all new game. In the latter case, the extra cost involved in just making it an all new game is not all that significant.

Nintendo are clearly in a tough spot, with not enough games in the pipe to prop up a system which is on it's last legs. They'd do better to cut their losses and switch development to the PS4.



SanderEvers said:

In fact I'd pay 120 euro's to play this again. The Wind Waker is my single most favorite Legend of Zelda game. The other 3D Zelda games don't even come close to it. (Minish Cap is number 2, A Link to the Past number 3, Spirit Tracks number 4..)

They didn't change the story. Good, because it was a good story to begin with.
They didn't change the music. Good, because it had good music to begin with.
They didn't change the controls. Good, because it had good controls to begin with.
They did, however, change the graphics. Simply because GameCube graphics won't be any good on an HD console. This is simply why I don't care much for Virtual Console games.

Well, and see. [s]One of[/s] the best GameCube game on a modern day console with real HD graphics. And people complain about that there's nothing new or about that the price is to high?




AlternateButtons said:

@LunaticPandora Pathetic? For disagreeing? I don't think so. I did read the whole thing just to clarify. I just don't think they need to do anymore to this game then they are already doing. I believe it's fine.



CasuallyDressed said:

@KAHN My point was that the Wii U should have got an OoT remake INSTEAD of the 3DS. So, it wouldn't be 'another' remake, because the 3DS one would never have existed, if you catch my drift.



Luffymcduck said:

I wasn´t going to buy this when they announced this. I wasn´t expecting any new features either. I have no idea why Tingle Tuner couldn´t be used with Gamepad. I own the original, I´m happy with that.

Nintendo, you used to do cool remakes with neat extra stuff (DKCR3D on the other has new levels, but I haven´t played that).



SanderEvers said:

@CasuallyDressed OoT would look really, really bad on the WIi U. Or it wouldn't look like OoT at all. Which would destroy any reason to recreate it.

Also OoT is my second least favorite 3D Zelda, with only MM being worse.



hYdeks said:

I agree and disagree with him. I think he is probably right that this game should have been on 3DS and a fully remade Ocarina of Time should have been on Wii U, but I think it should have been a double-Zelda release and released Ocarina of Time AND Majora's Mask on Wii U in HD.

I agree the game shouldn't be a full price release either, $39.99 is fair, $49.99 should be top, anymore and it's kinda an insult.

@SandersEvers I think he was thinking of more of a complete revamp, kinda like Kingdom Hearts 1.5 is doing (since they kinda have too cause they lost all the original material for the first game oO) not just an up-res of the N64 game



SanderEvers said:

@CasuallyDressed Then it wouldn't be OoT.

It'd be something with the same story and characters, but the soul the original game had would have died. I hope with all my heart that Nintendo never recreates a game. They should beef up some of their old games and make new ones. Not remake old ones.

Sadly, however, they did recreate the first two Pokemon generations.



One-Winged-Pit said:

I completely agree with all of this. The game looked great already and it gets an HD treatment? Would have made more sense on the 3DS that is for sure. Not only that but it is probably one of the biggest Wii U games this year and there is zero new content. They have an ISLAND system and there is no new content. Even if I had a Wii U I would wait for the price to go down. If they are not going to put any effort into it other than a fresh coat of paint then I will not pay full price.



Beta said:

@Yorumi Wait, what? Attacking him? I wasn't attacking him, all this was more towards the other people who's been complaining non-sense. By no means was I even trying to attack the author.



Nintenjoe64 said:

Didn't one of the devs laugh during an interview when asked about different control options in this game?



DerpSandwich said:

I think it all comes down to price. If it were a budget game, like Ico/SotC, I wouldn't mind. But at $60 it really should have a lot more to it. So yeah, I probably do think it's a pretty lazy port.



jpfan1989 said:

I never finished windwaker, it was all good up until the damn triforce hunt and tingles overpriced maps ... It really killed the game for me back then, I put it down and never went back... I tried a few times in recent years but I just can't get into this game anymore.



element187 said:

Disagree strongly with what you are saying.... If Nintendo listened to its loudest complainers about the Wind Waker it would have to be pushed out until next year.... No thanks I want the game in October of 2013, not Oct of 2014.

I'll take it as they are remaking it... Recalculating self shadows/shading really makes the game pop. In fact I'd be ok with it only being in 720p as well, I'm not obsessed with 1080p.

First off recreating OOT in HD would be a complete waste of time/money, it was already remastered on 3DS, no reason to rerelease it again after another year, come on now, stop being silly.

Nintendo chose Wind Waker to push it to HD because they don't want to step on the toes of the Zelda game being made specifically for the Wii U.
If Nintendo chose to remaster Twilight Princess in HD, it would destroy the impact of having LInk in HD for the first time in a realistic art style... They need buzz to sell copies of the game, and if they hd'fied one of the more realistic Zelda games, the Wii U Zelda game would have less of an impact because gamers would already feel "I have been there and done that"... By choosing Wind Waker, the Wii U Zelda game would create far more buzz as it would be the first truly HD Zelda game..

Its hard for me to call complainers "fans" because they really are not. I don't see these type of complaints ever leveled at Sony or Microsoft. Gamers just accept what Sony/Microsoft dishes out, but some reason, its always Nintendo thats lazy according to its "fans".

Anyone who claims this is just an uprezzed remake is completely clueless... everything is being redesigned, models, maps, backgrounds, its all new art.... You seem to have Nintendo confused with Sony who just uprezzes their PORTS and call it a day. NIntendo is actually redesigning the art, they deserve credit for all the work they putting into it.... And adding all this additional stuff you want will delay the game further. No thank youl.



Tony_342 said:

It seems pretty clear to me that the entire reason they chose Wind Waker to "remake" was because it's cel-shaded. Any other Zelda game, they would have had to go back and redo all the textures in a higher resolution. But with this game, all they had to do was get it running in HD and improve the lighting a bit. Done. They clearly picked this game because it would be a quick, cheap, and easy way to get a new Zelda game out as fast as possible.

It really should only be thirty dollars.



AlternateButtons said:

Ok so, having the opinion that Windwaker shouldn't have been remade is fine (I disagree but whatever) But Why do people want Ocarina of Time to be remade and rereleased AGAIN?! Hasn't that game been milked to death already? Why do people keep reverting back to that game? IT'S NOT THAT GREAT. It was amazing for its time, but its time has passed and its simply dated now. Why not ask for Majoras Mask? Don't people want that? I'd rather have an HD remake of that game then a 3D Remake. What about Twilight Princess? Wouldn't that game look FANTASTIC in HD? It looked incredible on the Gamecube as it is! But why Ocarina of Time? I just dont get it. It baffles me that people want that game for the millionth time and yet complain when this game gets remade.

Also side note for the counter argument: This game was made simply because the Zelda team wanted to ease the waiting time between now and Zelda U. They didn't want another Skyward Sword incident where we were waiting forever between releases, so they threw this out for us to chew on while they make the next Zelda, it's as simple as that. So to expect anymore is ridiculous. The game doesn't need much else.



Rin-go said:

Isn't this a remake, as in they actually remake it? Make it one more time? And it is called lazy, because of that? But merely remastering it would be fine?
That is just like people complaining about rehashing, but when it was stated that there are not many new things that could be added to F-Zero, people said they would be fine with new tracks and the addition of online multiplayer, though this would be what rehashing actually is, add little to no new content.
This is really getting ridiculous.

I never played the original, but after Phantom Hourglass I wanted to, so the remake is really great for me.



Davidiam007 said:

@GearsOfWarU its not a lazy port. They did an amazing job with the remake. They've manage to capture the spirit and same appeal as the original and the graphics pop out at you. That can't be said with almost all the games that been remade not rebooted.



element187 said:

Are people confusing remakes with ports?

Remakes are actually recreating the models and art.... ports are what sony does, takes the exact game, kicks up the resolution and ships it.

Go look at a comparison video of WWHD and the original side by side, there is a ton of them on youtube, the game is looking far far better than the original.



AtomicToaster said:

They do this in film industry all the time with movies if it exposes people to these games thats awesome.



LunarFlame17 said:

My quick thought on this matter is: would you rather Nintendo add new dungeons and/or other new content to Wind Waker HD, or take that time and money and invest it into the next brand new Zelda for Wii U? I know I'd much rather have the latter. As awesome as a completely retooled Wind Waker would be, if it came at the cost of negatively impacting the new Zelda (and it would - both games are being made by the same team), it wouldn't be worth it to me.



JebbyDeringer said:

Thank you! I mostly agree with the exception that Skyward Sword had "ok" combat. The waggle was inaccurate and frustrating and I'd really love to see much much more in depth combat. In fact combat should be a much bigger focus of all Zelda games since you do so much of it. Also there is nothing wrong with MIDI, MIDI is a communication protocol. If they use high quality samples you get high quality sound. Yes an Orchestra is still better but it's less dynamic for a video game. It just seems that Nintendo has poor sound guys, on the N64 RARE always killed Nintendo in the sound deparment.



SonataAndante said:

@element187 Actually I would say there remakes, ports, and upgraded ports. I would class remakes as something more drastic, like Metroid Zero Mission and Pokemon HeartGold/SoulSilver. A port is a straight up no real changes copy paste of the game, like say, the Classic NES series on GBA or Super Mario All Stars on Wii. An upgraded port would be self explanatory, and I would call things like Star Fox 64 3D and WWHD upgraded ports.

I guess I'm just being really pedantic, but I would never call WWHD a remake.



Yorumi said:

@element187 actually when you use, erm certain means, to run the GC ww at higher resolution it starts looking a lot like this. Resolution actually has a pretty significant impact on how a game looks. I'm not saying they arn't doing anything beyond just upscaling it, it's just when you actually look at apples to apples comparisons you get a better idea.



rjejr said:

Only played the original for about an hour and found it too boring, but Ill probably pick this up when I can get it for $20. Knowing Nintendo that will probably be awhile.



hamae said:

I prefer less new contents with a lower price. The main issue is: Wii U needs high profile game desperately, right now! So it is understood that Nintendo would not spend too much time on new contents for this HD remake.



element187 said:

@Yorumi The biggest thing about the visuals in Windwaker is how good the shadows look, and now we actually have shading.

The whole look of the game is pretty dramatic... You don't get added shadows from just increasing resolution, that has to be put there in place intentionally and tested on just about every scene.

Look at how flat the original appears... the shading on the Wii U really makes the scenes come to life where the gamecube version is pretty minimal. Thats not from a resolution change.



SCAR said:

I'm not really sure what to think. If it's too similar to the old one, I probably won't buy it, despite it being one of my top 3 Zelda games.
I'm thinking this is a "missed it?" type deal. I got Wind Waker on day one back in 2003.

I don't agree with your Zelda OoT 3DS Iron boots complaint, though. Mapping the boots to a button was arguably the best thing they could have done vs. going into the menus, so I don't really get the complaint there.



Hetsumani said:

@ramstrong You're getting it wrong, what he means is that emulators are doing a better job at upscaling Nintendo games than Nintendo itself.



Yorumi said:

@element187 actually 3d graphics engines handle the shadow calculations. They arn't going in and hand painting shadows on everything, they've just put a function to calculate shadows in the engine. I'm not saying there's no work involved but absolutely any 3d graphics engine has the capability to calculate shadows from a light source, it's as standard as a polygon constructor.

While shadows make the game look nice, there's honestly not a whole lot of technical work involved in adding them.



Yorumi said:

@The_Joker and I was responding to a comment specifically about shadows.
Please stop with the harping on other users about 'rudeness' — report their comments if you feel they break our Community Rules and move on, thank you! — TBD



FLipSide5254 said:

If you people just gonna complain about the game then don't buy it period. You guys should be happy were getting our first Zelda game for Wii u. We all know it's a remake HD and it's best to look same exacty the way it is. Adding new stuff is not necessary at all. All I'm saying is thank god were getting a Zelda game for Wii U soon. I'm happy for that instead of complaining why not go buy other game instead.



Mattiator said:

And they got rid of the Tingle Tuner, which would be utterly fantastic with one player using a classic controller and the other using the gamepad for the TT. Instead we get a stupid message-in-a-bottle feature. Thanks for giving me one less reason to buy a Wii U, Nintendo.



ramstrong said:

You lost me. Why exactly 3rd party emulator does better job upscaling Nintendo games than Nintendo? Is it because they hack Nintendo games? Or because Nintendo doesn't bother to release their games on PC and therefore need to do so?



Yorumi said:

@ramstrong the emulator isn't hacking the game it's just applying a higher resolution and post-process AA and other effects that are pretty standard on any gpu. The point is when you add those effects and resolution scaling you get awful close to what this game is offering. What the emulator does isn't that difficult either so it's really just a point that they really should not be charging full price for these games.



ramstrong said:

So, then by saying emulator on PC does it better, he suggested that Nintendo does the same and publish on PC? Sure, that makes sense. I doubt Nintendo will do that, though.
Like I said, I doubt he meant the former, but the latter is unlikely.



Screath said:

@evanescent_hero It's not a remake, it's an HD port with a few new features. The fact that they are calling it a remake is the problem. Just look at Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes and Resident Evil for the GameCube. Those are actual remakes because the games were rebuilt from scratch.



Hetsumani said:

@ramstrong what @Yorumi said, besides there are HD texture packs made by the community that look a lot better than the WiiU version. Not only for the Wind Waker but for a lot of games.



Hetsumani said:

@ramstrong I'm not saying Nintendo should release it for a PC, these emulators can upscale Wind Waker on PCs not even half as powerful as the WiiU, what I'm saying is that Nintendo should step it up, offer something better than the emulator's "non profesionals" do.



grenworthshero said:

by that argument you're saying Nintendo should be charging $60 for every re-release of Super Mario Bros. because there are people who may not have played it.



ramstrong said:

Not sure how you can load Community texture packs without hacking the ROM, unless you're saying those capabilities are built-in.

Regarding your other claim. Well, you're entitled to your opinion. Mine happens to differ.



takyon98 said:

i guess you guys dont want games (even if their crappy ports WHICH NEED TO STOP) to come to wiiU....



Stark_Nebula said:

I enjoy your arguments. There quite well done, with a discrepancy or two. I think you'd like to know that changing the winds direction is about 50% faster (it skips the the animation where you play the song after you conduct it) and sailing is about 2.5x faster (a little more than "slightly faster"). Also, like many have pointed out, they added a lot of shaders and visual effects.

I feel you with the "what could have been", but to counter that, had we never known, we wouldn't be disappointed at all. In light of that, I think it's a less valid argument. The game feels complete. On the other had, if we got a Super Mario Sunshine remake, with there being 4 scrapped levels (Warship Island, Lacrima Hotel, Erto Rock, and Fire Shrine) and the fact the game threw in 24 blue-coin-obtained shines (a sign of the game's rushed development), then I'd be a little more disappointed. With that addition, the game would feel whole. Wind Waker, however, holds it's own.

All in all, I'd still get it, though I'd need a Wii U first. I hope those who haven't played it on GC will now. I can't wait for Cosmo and Demoon9's speedruns.



jkvasn said:

Not too long before WW HD was announced, I decided to play through it again and one of my first thoughts was, "GOD I wish this was in HD!" NO JOKE! So I'm all for an HD remake. My ONLY problem is the full retail price. I would pick this up at $40 tops unless reviews and consumer feedback can convince me otherwise. I'll be eyeballin it though.



HaNks said:

it'd be fine if it was a cut price release, to reflect the minimal changes made to the game. as a full price release i'm not keen. most HD remasters are sold in sets or as budget titles.



SparkOfSpirit said:

Updating the combat system? What?

I agree with the price (It should be cheaper since it's a re-release) but changing the core gameplay is a big no-no. Wind Waker still features my favorite 3D Zelda combat.



banacheck said:


Only Shadow of the Colossus was free. Ico was not included.

Your actually very wrong there because i downloaded both ICO & Shadow of the Colossus HD Collection being a PlayStation Plus member, and both of them games are sitting on my HDD right now.

Any HD collection i've got for the PS3 has always has had "2-3 games include", and "more importantly do not sell" for a full rental price game £39.99. If Nintendo thinks i'm buying Zelda: Wind Waker HD thay got another thing coming, Nintendo must be out of there effing minds, one full price rental HD game a complete rip-off. Nintendo must be laughing there heads off and thinking gullible piggy banks.



valcoholic said:

Without the lost dungeons it's still a cut version for me, so I see no reason to go through that game one more time. It's been a nice game 10 yrs ago and If I wanna play it, I'm gonna throw the disc into my Wii and play it.



Funbunz said:

So sad! I love Wind Waker SO MUCH, but the only complaints I have about the game (stopping to redirect the wind and MIDI music) are still issues with the remake. WTF Nintendo? I liked the slow boat speed, I liked the triforce collecting, and I don't see a huge difference in the visuals. Yeah, it looks a little better. Yeah, the few new features are kind of cool. But why can't the 3ds act as a tingle tuner? I would rather they just stuck this on the eshop. I'd never pay more than about $25 for a remake with so little added. At least the Ocarina remake added 3d.



TheAdrock said:

Frankly if all that Nintendo did was re-render all their Zelda games in HD, I'd be happy. If TLoZ (Zelda 1) were re-rendered in HD with no other changes I'd be thrilled and it would be worth the purchase. WW-HD isn't a new game... so why expect it be be redesigned with all these new features? Analogy: people who buy restored classic cars don't expect them to have GPS nav and cruise control. Just new paint and leather.



Linkstrikesback said:


A PS+ subscription pays for itself in discounts alone, the fact that they also let you download several full retail titles for nothing is amazing. And if your argument is "well let your subscription run out! then" so you're paying for them, well then. Where is Nintendos equivalent program? I'd love to "pay" for a subscription which in turn gives free downloads and bigger discounts, because the value for money is amazing. No-one ever has any reason to let the PS+ sub run out, because it's just that darn good.



tsm7 said:

You forgot 60fps. I do agree, however. The game needs some added bonus. Link's Awakening DX included a new dungeon. A Link to the Past GBA included Four Swords Adventure. Ocarina of Time included a mirrored Master Quest and Boss Challenge mode.
I'm expecting something announced but as time passes I am more pessimistic.



TromboneGamer said:

I totally agree. Wind Waker has an enduring art style that wasn't really in need of an upgrade. Playing it on 3DS however would've been a joy. You also make a very good point that an upgraded Ocarina of Time would've been much better suited to Wii U. Though I think people would clamor more for a Majora's Mask HD. You summed up how I feel about the Zelda remakes better than I could have.



banacheck said:


@banacheck Let your Plus account run out and tell me how those 'Free' games are.

Now where in my post did i use the word free? thats right i didn't, for what you actually get of PS+ for the price it's well worth it, plus all the discounts and everything else. You cannot rent a game for less then a pound for how ever long you want. anywhere else on this planet.

Thank you, you said that better than i have.

I not be funny or anything i own a Wii U, but i find the price tag for HD re-release nuts.



SparkOfSpirit said:

@Linkstrikesback I know, my point was that it's not free. If you stop paying for them, you will lose them. Not even mentioning what will happen when Sony stops supporting it to move on to newer systems. It's hardly ideal or 'perfect'.



Kirk said:

In addition to my previous comment...

They also mapped the items and map to the GamePad screen for quick access too. That's another little detail that's quite useful. It's also running in 60fps, which I never mentioned above.

So, that's 1080p, 60fps, proper realtime lighting and shadows across the whole world, the Tingle Bottle messages thingy and Miiverse integration, faster sailing, map and items on the GamePad screen for quick and easy access, remote play, I also think there's going to be some small alterations and adjustments to the sea/sailing, with maybe some small extra islands and/or more treasure to find, so there's a bit more of a reason to sail to places and stuff -

I guess there actually are quite a few improvements when you add everything together.

Maybe nothing major but still lots of little improvements.



AlThor said:

I'm guessing as a early foray into HD land for NInty, it was "rushed" by them with more of a deadline. What they learned from it will be returned to you a hundredfold when the "new" Zelda comes out in 2015. I agree with many of your points, but like you I shall still play this version and hey, I might just play thru once on the gamepad han solo!



banacheck said:


Not even mentioning what will happen when Sony stops supporting it to move on to newer systems. It's hardly ideal or 'perfect'.

Sony going to be still supporting the PS3 for years to come, when you subscribe to the PS4 Playstation Plus you only need one subscription. To download games from the PS4,PS3 & PSVita not only that you get discounts on all three system. I already use the discounts and get the games for both PS3 & PSVita, Playstation Plus pays for itself within the first month for me. Plus Playstation Plus carry over to the PS4 if you already have a subscription, if Nintendo did this i would subscribe day one. So what happens when Nintendo stops supporting the Wii? you have the Wii games on your Wii U, but i can guarantee you Nintendo next system will not be supporting the Wii, is that ideal or perfect.



smashbrolink said:

I never played the emulated version since I'm a straight-laced kind of guy, so I've never experienced the game in HD.
Nintendo is making this game for the fans that didn't emulate.
That's fine by me.

Also, they say they've done something to make the Triforce quest more bearable, so there's that....



GhastlyMagician said:

I never played the emulated version, nor would i because i believe the money need's to go to the right people (or at least feel like it is in my own mind). And back then i had such a distaste for the gamecube, that i never picked one up so i never played the original. And i'm kind of glad for that because i always hate comparing new things to the original, i just try to enjoy what is hear for what it is. And i shall with this and hopefully more people will get over some of the "misgivings" and do the same.



Token_Girl said:

My suspicion is that they were originally porting this over to be one of the first GCN VC titles for WiiU back when Reggie was dropping hints for that before launch.

Then when 3rd party publishers dropped the WiiU and first party games all got delayed, Ninty realized they definitely needed something quickly to promote to fill the hole. They probably had the SD version of the game mostly up and running for a VC release, which would include some of the more difficult aspects technically, such as off TV play, and decided to just quickly upscale it and move it to retail. That's my suspicion as to why there's not very much in the way of new features.



Inev said:

" if I don’t like it, don’t buy it, right? Frankly, that attitude doesn't help anything"

Please elaborate on this.

You seem to be saying this HD remake is lazy because it's only been improved by X, and you personally wanted it to be improved by X+Y, where Y is the content and mechanics of a new Zelda game.



MeWario said:

Interesting point about swapping Ocarina of Time for Wind Waker. And I have to say i agree. Though I do love Ocarina on my 3DS, Wind Waker would suit the 3DS down to the ground, and, more importantly, Ocarina would sell millions on Wii U. Especially if it was polished like crazy. I also feel that they have half a@$ed the Wind Waker update a tad. When they realised Ocarina on GameCube the added an entire 'master quest'. Here, I would have expected them to add the dungeons that went missing in the original game due to time restraints. Still, I am excited to play it.



brandonbwii said:

I thought there would be short cuts for the wind and partner characters. Without those improvements there is no point of me buying this game again.



LavaTwilight said:

I usually accept reviewers opinions as everyone is entitled to their own opinion. After all, the best reviewers tend to focus on the market that the game is in, the genre if you will, and write the review according to how the game fares against others of the same category. I guess this should be more of a preview because A) the game isn't finished yet; B) there's still several months left and C) it's not good to write a review about a game you feel so passionately about.
I don't know about others here but I've played both ICO and SotC but not their HD remakes and I loved both of them exactly as they are. I, however, have never played Wind Waker and I'm looking forward to this incredibly. From my opinion therefore Nintendo couldn't have chosen a better game to remake since I've played all the other home-console versions, but not this one.
As for new content, why should there be? You're upset because there COULD be; not that there SHOULD be.
The big question I have for you is this, are you comparing the game to the original, to other games of the same genre that are out in the market, or to how your vision of how this game should be remastered?



FleetwoodMackin said:

I figured Wind Waker HD was just a chance to mass beta the visuals, gameplay, menu/second screen application.. and to stave off our Zelda hunger for a bit longer.

Regardless... I CANNOT WAIT TO PLAY IT!!

P.S. Fun article and way to go with the whole NL Civil War thing..



Emaan said:

Shame on Nintendo for giving us an HD remake of a wonderful Zelda game to hold us over until a new Wii U game in the series is released. What were they thinking?



Buduski said:

I will probably buy this game even though I played the original and enjoyed it, but I was curios to know what people where saying about twilight princess? IMO it is the best entry in the series, it had a beautiful artstyle, the music was great, the storyline and gameplay top notch.



banacheck said:

Emaan said:

Shame on Nintendo for giving us an HD remake of a wonderful Zelda game to hold us over until a new Wii U game in the series is released. What were they thinking?




timp29 said:

I think Nintendo chose this title to upgrade as it was easier, and in updating Wind Waker, helped the team working on the WiiU Zelda learn the traps and pitfalls of HD Zelda along the way.

Still, if they expanded the underwater world with a few more dungeons, opening up the end game, I would say this would be the best Zelda title ever. The way the story expands at the end was fantastic, but felt underutilised.



Zombie_Barioth said:

I actually whole-heartedly agree. Its funny how everyone harping on how Rory said he'd prefer an OOT remake appearently glanced over the part where he says they should have switched the the two games, not make two OOTs. Not that I personably care which game gets a remake.

There isn't any reason they couldn't have added the cut dungeons regardless of them being used in other games, a lot of people would have loved to see how the game was meant to be. I'm not going to judge the game until we see the end result but I certainly hope they do enough to make it not seem like just a remastered GC game.



ballistic90 said:

This game is an experiment. They're testing out the new lighting and shading effects they can do on the new console, and testing control schemes for the next Zelda HD game. They also mentioned that they fixed some of the pacing issues, I hope meaning they worked out the triforce mission at the end of the game.

Basically, this release is going to be used to test a lot of technology and the reaction to the technology they will use for the next game. I don't mind, since I've been wanting to play this game again for a while.



Chillama said:

I definitely agree.. It's really a bummer... But then again I have never played this game, so I will still buy it, and enjoy it ...



Subie98 said:

I wont pay more then 25-30 for this game. I MIGHT pick it up preowned, seeing as how I still have my original copy. I don't care if its hd and with the game pad, blah, blah, blah. its not worth more then 20-30 for those of us that have played it already. There wont be that many people that will want it. Only most people that like zelda and have never played it or have and would like it in hd. .02



Williaint said:

I would likely agree with you more, if my copy of Windwaker didn't disappear (It has to do with my brother, and some beer... or something). I've only played through the game about three and a half times, and not very recently! So
I enjoy MIDI, in most cases call me crazy. In video games, it's easy to use MIDI sounds, such as the instance of conducting winds, or playing an ocarina notes. It does add to the laziness claim, however, as you would think they'd have a better way of doing it, 10 years later.
The mysterious dungeons are another thing that should have been put in (or should be, I haven't heard anything that says they won't be). Ocarina of Time 3D has the Master Quest, so why couldn't you put a couple new areas?

If they were making a Windwaker or OoT remake at this point, I would agree that the OoT HD remake would probably be more fashionable, in the public eye. When OoT 3D came out, I was hesitant to get it, but I did, and don't regret it. If there was a 3D Windwaker, I probably wouldn't. Not because I don't like the game, because I could probably find a discount version of the GCN game, play it on my Wii, and get a better experience out of it, despite any speed issues.
The Demo I got to play, at BestBuy, was the Helmaroc King. It felt clumsy, at first. I wasn't really impressed with the boss, but I was impressed with what I saw, watching other parts.

The first time I played Windwaker, I don't even remember finding the speed a problem... It wasn't until years later, when people began to complain, that I recalled what kind of ordeal it was...

I don't think it's a test... They already have tests for this. And they've already tested this. It may have been a test on GCN, just like Sunshine was a Water-tester, and Luigi's Mansion was an Air-tester.
That's just all "REAL GAMERS"
If they don't offer much new content, a lower price is reasonable. Nonetheless, I won't have to pay for it (my brother is paying for it, 'Cause he lost the original).



BlatantlyHeroic said:

@Subie Making games isn't cheap. Especially since this is a remake, not a port.

Okay, I'll actually take part and say/ask something serious. Didn't they say that there would be something similar to the Master Quest for this? I thought they did. I agree with the article and disagree at the same time. I would like to see something new in the game, but the game itself already has enough content for me to play it again. No one complained that Ocarina of Time 3D didn't have any new dungeons, besides the ones in the Master Quest, which I'm sure was said to be included with The Wind Waker HD.

Also, MIDI has a warm place in my heart. It adds nostalgia, which will make this remake even better.



allav866 said:

Wind Waker was $49.99 on the GameCube, and Nintendo is enhancing the game with gameplay tweaks and improved graphics, as well as adding Miiverse and off-screen play, so there is no reason to whine about the price, be it $50 or $60!



WesCash said:

Very well written article. I love Wind Waker but I already have a GC and an original copy. This "remake" does seem lazy and I agree that it doesn't benefit a whole lot from a new HD coat of paint.



Cyberbotv2 said:

@GearsOfWarU : I never bought it on the cube. I might buy it if it comes in at 30 bucks. I'll buy it at whatever price if they somehow have the game pad heavily involved. And this game comes out in November? I'm pretty sure there's a lot of stuff about this game yet to be revealed.



CasuallyDressed said:

@allav866 "Super Metroid was $49.99 on the Super Nintendo, and Nintendo enhanced the game with Miiverse and off-screen play, so there is no reason to whine about the price, be it $50 or $60!"



Mattiator said:

@SCAR392 I don't own a Wii U. This game would have sold me on one if it had kept the Tingle Tuner functionality. For me in my youth, the Tingle Tuner provided so many good memories with my non-gamer younger sister and the Gamepad seemed like such a perfect fit for that kind of dynamic two-player experience. If they can't even release an "update" that at the very least keeps all the features of the previous version then it's not worth my time or money.



b23cdq said:

This might not be "New Zelda" to the 5-10 million people who have already played it. It is, however, "New Zelda" to the millions of people who haven't played it, like me. Therefore I am perfectly fine with paying full price for it.

It's a shame with the music, though.



Subie98 said:

@The_Joker I agree its not cheap but it doesnt require anywhere near the time as designing from the ground up. It shouldn't even cost as much as they'll probably sell it for.



XneroX said:

Wii u system update now available. Not THE update, that one comes end of September to beginning of October



AaronB said:

It doesn't have everything I could have hoped for in a remake (lower price and extra dungeon or two, for example); but it's far more than a lazy up-rez. The ease of navigating menus and swapping inventory with the GamePad will be a great improvement over the original, and I think it looks stunning on an HDTV.

I've decided to buy it even if it's $60, though I'd be happy if they surprised us and made it a little cheaper.



BlatantlyHeroic said:

@Subie98 Making an HD game costs quite a lot. QUITE a lot. I think it would be nice if it were cheaper, but I'd buy it at the standard price for an HD game, which will always be $59.99.



DarkLloyd said:

seems to me that most that are complaining about this are the ones who have already played it except me since i dont go up in arms about it

-great for those who havent played it
-great for those who can now have a copy to own but have played it originally like me for example

-great way to reintroduce the title to the public more as i doubt most people heavly research this stuff wouldnt have a clue

would i have loved to pay less for it of course why wouldnt anyone but im not complaining about it because i really enjoy those games enough to get it day one.



MAB said:

But at the end of the day after all the complaining has died down you will all buy it and love it to the max just like me



JaxonH said:

The author does make some valid points, that much can't be denied. And yes, perhaps this is one instance in which Nintendo really fumbled through a lack of initiative and desire to fully improve the game to its maximum potential. However, considering the fact that Nintendo almost ALWAYS gives games 110%, and the fact that it will likely be YEARS before we're discussing another game that Nintendo didn't invest as much as it should, I can both forgive Nintendo for it and overlook their shortcomings with regard to Windwaker HD. I already pre ordered the game, and although I own Windwaker for Gamecube, I will be waiting for the HD remake before playing through it for the first time. This is the only game I haven't played since Ocarina of Time, so I find it very fitting that this is the one they chose to bring to Wii U. Excellent choice Nintendo, you always read my mind!



PokemonManiac said:

First I want to say that emulation is wrong no matter how good it makes the game look. Next, to all the people who are mad about the cut dungeons not being included, they were used in future games like twilight princess. Finally, Nintendo (forget who) said they tested other Zelda games in HD graphics but Wind Waker was the only one that really stood out. Plus they listens to fans and made the boat faster and added a twist to the triforce hunt. For a journalist and so called Zelda fan you should get your facts straight.



xtndedPlay said:

Miyamoto basically said that Windwaker is Nintendo trying to find out a good formula for Zelda U. I now view this port as the result of experimental programming for the HD engine marketed as a money grab while building Zelda U.



Gregor said:

Ahh so I see. Nintendo has been half assing a LOT of things lately. The LoZ OoT remake with its lazy retextures that still look pretty bad for 3DS standards, the "second world" of Super Mario 3D land, not including feet for characters in FE A, the plethora of laziness in Animal Crossing New Leaf, maybe even the chunky modeling in Luigis Mansion 2 although I suppose you could call that an artstyle.



GamerZack87 said:

And once again the option I want to vote for in the poll isn't listed.

Wind Waker is one of my favourite GCN games by far, but unfortunately I lost my copy during the big move interstate. Picking up this remake once I have my shiny new Wii U will be a wise decision. Basically, it'll be replacing my missing copy.

Also, it's "Hyrulean", not Hyrulian. A common misspelling to be sure - even my Choose Your Own Adventure-styled Oracle of Ages novella had it spelled Hyrulian on the back cover!



PKUltima said:

There is one glaring flaw with your argument. This is not a remake, it's a HD remaster. HD remasters are just games that are taken and upscaled to HD. Remakes take an old game and completely overhaul it and give it a new engine, visuals and new features.



Williaint said:

A few months ago, I overheard some kids talking about Goldeneye 007, for N64. "Oh, yeah, I played this at my friends house! It sucks!" "COD is way better." "It's not even online!" I've never really enjoyed the game, but it doesn't suck (and it's better than CoD). These are is just opinions. I'd go as far as to say hearsay; but then again, the internet is full of that...
After watching some videos, I think Windwaker is fine with MIDI music... I wish I had it to play right now.

That's true, although it is funny to see what hacks they have, sometimes. I've only seen pictures and video of that modified Windwaker; but it just made me want to play the original even more...
I'm in a similar situation, I just chose "Yes", because It was probably closest. thanks for correcting us
In some cases — boat speed — it is getting remade (not to mention some other alterations)...



james_squared said:

I'm still excited as I've really only played Twilight Princess Skyward Sword, and the original Legend of Zelda. I'm pretty sure there are lots of other people who've never played Wind Waker and I think this Zelda will tie us over until the new one that should be here next year. Go Link Go!



Ultrasyd said:

I 200% agree with the point about the music. This kind of MIDI music sucks. I'm in love with 8 bit music and often listen to Game Boy soundtracks or stuff like that. I also love realistic music from RPGs. But when I have the tracks of Windwaker in my playlist, I just skip them because ... come on, MIDI style :/



Zhenya said:

You know what's a lazy port? Sonic adventure 2 hd... That's a lazy port >_>



BestBuck15 said:

The way I see it is; its an easy conversion for Nintendo, its not a new game, they have no games ready and it is this years big title for Wii U even though it's 10 years old, it gets them out of a sticky situation. That said its my favorite Zelda game. Nintendo are pulling a bit of a quick one and it makes you wonder what are they doing? Why have they not got more games for Wii U? I think business is getting in the way of making games.



rastamadeus said:

@onlyaman "FYI- Only Shadow of the Colossus was free. Ico was not included." Why say that when it was? The free game was the bundle with both of them in. So, again, why say it?



CowLaunch said:

"didn't meet it's original intentions in the design doc because of time constraints."
That's a useful working definition of 'unfinished', thank-you.
The omissions in Wind Waker were so very glaringly obvious. Whilst an enjoyable game, it lacked the symmetry of other Zelda titles, and it was clear where dungeons had been cut. Releasing it again without those parts, is well, just breathtaking.

I didn't say Pikmin 3 was in development for time frames which are impossible, I said it was meant for an earlier period.

I don't care about HD graphics, and save a few gimmicks or two, most of Super Mario 3D World could have been done on GameCube. Perhaps not 4 players at once, but really, that's not what I play Mario for. In any case, The graphics in the videos I've seen don't look that amazing.

"apparently having footage and trailers Wonderful 101, Bayonetta 2, Smash Bros., Donkey Kong Country, Pikmin 3, SM3DW, Sonic Lost World, Mario Kart 8, Project X, and announcing a massive HD Zelda title as well as Yarn Yoshi and a massive amount of eshop titles in the works justifies the statement "doesn't appear to be anything in sight."

In fact, it furthers my point.
Some good games there sure, but none will be system sellers, and neither do they deserve to be (Smash Bros. might have been, if they weren't releasing it on 3DS as well!).
Another Donkey Kong Country game, looks pretty, but not worth expense of a HD console, Mario Kart 8, same, Yarn Yoshi, lazily took concept that worked for Kirby game, and regurgitated it.

To justify buying a Wii U, an epic game, like a big Mario or Zelda is needed, and before Nintendo release that, they should hold on HD remakes.

As for other comments you've made in this thread:
"You honestly said you'd prefer YET ANOTHER Ocarina of Time remake rather than an HD windwaker with more features."
Start reading! That's not what he said.



Jazzer94 said:

I'm slightly confused as to why people commenting here saying that they've never played the original and prefer that the missing dungeons are not included in the game, I mean if I was going to play the game for the first time I would want to play it in its most complete form.
I also don't get how people are fine with paying $60 or £40 for something that really should be marketed at a lower price point seeing as the game is practically the same as it had been 10 yrs ago.



Ristar42 said:

I played the game on Gamecube and I never finished it, so it wouldn’t sell me a Wii U, just because it has visual refinements. I preferred Twilight Princess (on Gamecube), which I did complete. I feel Nintendo are almost treading water, the Gamecube had games that made me want to buy the console, so did the 3DS, but for some reason the Wii U does not.
I suppose I'm waiting for a new Zelda, Metroid, or F-Zero.



allav866 said:

@CasuallyDressed I've edited my post, because for some reason it was absolutely necessary to mention playing the game in 1080p and the fact that Nintendo updated the graphics and gameplay, which they didn't do for Super Metroid. This isn't a port, like the VC games, it's a remake.



Rin-go said:

@CasuallyDressed #214
You really didn't do that, did you? Sorry, but you can't take ports and compare them to a remake.
Also, it isn't even out yet, so we can't say exactly how much was changed or added. When you do actually play it you might find that it's the best remake ever made.



Kyoto said:

I have never played the original, so it's a completely new experience to me. I'm really, REALLY excited for this one!!



DarkNinja9 said:

i agree with pretty much 80% about this the other % i disagree mainly because i think them remaking wind waker is ok but the lack that they arent rly improving much is just something that gets me like those lost dungeons that arent going to be added even if they got put into future games come on!

anyway i dont think a OoT remake on HD matters no more what i want and what i know would sell is a Majora's Mask HD remake on Wii U people already want it and a HD is a plus now imagine some sort of miiverse in there? amazing stuff now if you put that on the 3ds it will just be 'good' and it will feel like a wind waker port again so in the end i probably will skip this even though i was going to get it



seronja said:

i never played WW since i never had a gamecube or a wii with GC backwards compatibility so this will be a new game for me, wich is awesome =D can't wait for it =)



Dezsi said:

Well, the new dungeons would obviously have been the MAIN part of actual added content, but I never expected that to happen ever.
Yes, if nothing else, at least controlling the wind should have been made much easier.
I also never doubted that it will be sold at full price.

Sad as it is, that's what we're getting, and for a full retail price, many of the changes mentioned in the article should have been implemented.

Of course, spending as little time with the game as possible is understandable in a financial sense, which only concerns Nintendo, not us. Nintendo would get a lot more respect if they had made the obvious changes that should have been made.



C7_ said:

@CowLaunch It's actually not the original definition of unfinished, because as I said, that implies that it was incredibly buggy and massive portions were cut out of the game. A dungeon was cut-out and the triforce collection game was bland, but other than that I didn't even notice the game was short, and it worked perfectly fine. And like I said, show me a game that hasn't had anything cut out of it. You can't because that's just how big game development works; things get cut to make time for other things to release better, it's not "unfinished" because it didn't meet your expectations of what a full game is. And no, they weren't glaringly obvious because I played the crap out of the game and didn't even notice where the dungeon would be because they did a good job of doing other things with that island related to the overall game. A game that is clearly unfinished is Sonic 06, or even the lack of Stop n Swap in Banjo Tooie because you can actually find and see the things that were left out, which in WindWaker you would've been completely unable to do had the developers not come out and said "yeah, there was supposed to be stuff here and there" and instead the only thing you could actually say about the game was that there was a sound file of Jabun that went unused that implies we missed a cutscene with him, and the pacing was very unusual.

"I didn't say Pikmin 3 was in development for time frames which are impossible, I said it was meant for an earlier period."
In this case these are synonymous statements, because the earlier period you mention is Gamecube, which going by even the most basic understanding of the development time of games, is an impossible time frame for which the game was in development. In fact I'll even add further to the point that the New Play Control series with Pikmin 1&2 came about because they were messing with new controls they could implement with Pikmin 3, similar to how this HD remake came about from messing with art styles and it happened to look a lot better to them. So no, this was clearly not originally planned for Gamecube.

It doesn't matter if that's not what YOU play Mario for; the 4-player is one of the biggest draws of SM3DW so intentionally excluding it to make a false point about the Gamecube being able to handle it is absurd. Even so, the levels are actually a lot bigger than what the Gamecube could probably handle anyway without doing some absolutely massive loading tricks and cutting off portions of the level, which would again ruin one of the main points mentioned in the developer direct of the game that he wanted people to be able to essentially compete for faster level times. That's like saying "Excluding the bigger levels, visuals, and gravity, Mario Galaxy was clearly capable of being run on and N64." Even if that statement were true it wouldn't be Mario Galaxy anymore, and similarly cutting those things out of SM3DW would make it a totally different game.

And you seem to also be under this fallacy that single games sell consoles. The only community of gamers that will buy consoles because of a single game is Japan (which I would argue would be very much interested in Monolith's project); every other community will wait until a proper line-up is at least announce and you seem to be implying that they should drop everything to focus on two games which you have obligatorily labeled as "console sellers." Every single game release contributes to console sales, especially the big franchises that I listed. Your average Zelda fan will not slap $300 down to just play HD Zelda, nor will a fighting game fan do that for Smash bros, but if there are tons of other big hits out there they're more willing to justify the price, and that's literally every game I listed coming out.

So no, denouncing an entire list of games to make a point about how there are no games in sight will not further your point, it'll make you look intentionally ignorant in a conversation where I expected you to know things.

The only thing I will give you is that yes, I read that incorrectly. It's completely irrelevant to our posts, but sure you can have that. He meant that they should've had WindWaker on the 3DS and OoT fully remade on WiiU. I'll still put forward that that is an absurd statement, because as I said in another post the Zelda team is working on 2 other entirely new project, and improving a GameCube game with simple, stylized visuals would be a more realistic project for a divided team like this rather than having to redo every aspect of OoT because if they HADN'T done the 3D game they would've had to change literally every model, texture, and rework the entire engine. I'd also like to point out that the reason they're able to add the faster sail for better pacing was because of the WiiU's stronger rendering capabilities; something which the 3DS lacks and therefore we would actually just get an identical game but in 3D.



CowLaunch said:

"And no, they weren't glaringly obvious because I played the crap out of the game and didn't even notice where the dungeon would be because they did a good job of doing other things with that island related to the overall game. "
Well, we're just going to have to put that down to your intelligence.
Most games have had something cut, sure, but I can show you plenty of games that felt like a complete experience despite that, and Wind Waker isn't one of them.

Regarding Pikmin 3, a 'plan' is not the same as what eventually occurs. I may plan to do some shopping at a certain time, but may actually do it later. I can't explain this distinction any more simply.

The levels in 3D World don't look large at all, certainly not compared to something like Sunshine.

Your West/Japan distinction is erroneous, plenty of people in the West bought the N64 purely for GoldenEye. Perhaps you were only referring more recent consoles.

I know people who have bought the Xbox for Halo, and the Wii for Galaxy. However, we can perhaps at least agree that these people are in the minority.

I don't believe that single games usually sell consoles; I believe lots of epic games sell systems, the fact that is Nintendo don't yet have a single one for Wii U, and there isn't one on your list. I mentioned Mario and Zelda as the 2 epic games, because they are the most likely, a great Starfox game, or a new franchise that is also an epic experience would be fine by me; it just isn't going to happen.

"So no, denouncing an entire list of games to make a point about how there are no games in sight will not further your point, it'll make you look intentionally ignorant in a conversation where I expected you to know things.'
There's no argument here. To my reasoning of why these games aren't system sellers/epic/innovative, you've just said 'You're wrong'. That's as stupid as the ontological argument.



C7_ said:

@CowLaunch I'm glad you resorted to insulting my intelligence instead of actually rebutting my point, as that mean's you have nothing more to add and I've already shut down everything you claim to be evidence and that leaves you with a childish attitude and an opinion that I can't possibly contradict because it is just an opinion. Ad hominem does nothing against the things that I'm actually saying, nor would it if it was anything more than your opinion that I wasn't intelligent enough to notice things that weren't a problem anyway.

On top of this, I've already pointed out that Pikmin 3 was in fact not going to be developed for Gamecube, but you've shrunken your point to something that can not be disproved but have no evidence for. It could have happened that at some point immediately after Pikmin 2's release in 2004 Miyamoto said to himself that he planned to make another Pikmin game for Gamecube, but there are no quotes and no evidence for that, nor is there any proof what-so-ever that such a plan was set in motion. Again, the first actual mention of Pikmin 3's development was in 2007, so you've narrowed it down a point that you can't prove, but I can't say didn't happen only just that it's incredibly unlikely. You've essentially made your own argument meaningless.
Sunshine had the illusion of being large because it was designed within an arena rather than being linear, therefore multiple objectives and paths can cross and create several things to do within a small space without having to render hundreds of different things down the line. If you can honestly tell me that the largest level in sunshine, which would probably be Pianta village, is anymore than a fraction of that level's size I'd have to say you're completely and objectively wrong.

Yes, I would be referring to more recent consoles because the audience has in fact changed since 1995. And yes, we can agree they are in the minority.

But again, we've come to a point where it is your OPINION that none of the games I mentioned are epic games, in which case I COULDN'T have said you were wrong because it is your opinion. I just have to disagree to you just subjectively labeling several games as unepic because a lot of people would consider Bayonetta 2, Mario Kart, Project X, and Donkey Kong to be fantastic looking games worth investing in a console for. So no, I haven't said 'you're wrong,' you've just backed yourself into a logical corner far smaller than your original points that I can't, nor do I want to invade in. Essentially there's nothing left that I care to talk about because I just wanted to call out how absurd your Gamecube claims were and how a list of games with potential doesn't constitute "Nothing in sight." And I have done just that.
It's actually hilarious that you mention the ontological argument here because the only one here claiming that something could've happened because there's no evidence against it is you.



Doge said:

Well lets see, i love HD graphics, and haven't and want to play Wind Waker....
This is obviously NOT the perfect game for me (sarcasm)



crazyj2312 said:

I like what it's offering, an HD experience for a Zelda I never really got into. The same arguments came up for Ocarina of Time, it not adding anything and just being a remastering, reusing music etc. But I got it because I never played the original and I feel like those are the people they're targeting with these projects, the peeps who never really got into the older Zelda titles. It doesn't seem like it, but since then and now, a whole generation of video gamers have risen out of the woodworks and it's nice they get to experience something they never did as something shiny and new rather than a relic of the past.



R_Champ said:


For people who haven't played it, it does seem perfect, but for people who have played it the plunge of 60 bones might be a little much with so few changes. I'm still on the fence, especially since I can't pull a bargain-bin snag with first-party Nintendo games (which is great for re-sell value, but hard on my wallet--I'd hate to buy a Sony remake and only be able to sell it back for 5 bucks though).



NightmareXIV said:

I wonder if this guy would say stuff like this if his job was on the line, and one hated review would his last (Speaking in a "what if" way.)



NightmareXIV said:

Think of this game like dinner time they want to make a new Zelda game for Wii U, but new games take a while so to keep fans attention they have to release something for the franchise to keep them engaged. Like having a snack before eating dinner so as to keep yourself from getting too hungry.



JayMiller1988 said:

While the game is tied for my favorite LoZ game with Skyward Sword and Majora's Mask, I won't be investing in a game just because "Ooo HD."



TheXboxHero said:

Still getting it. I never had a GameCube before, so Im trying it out. Also, I disagree with the article, that's all I have to say.



automatom said:

Of course there is bound to be negative things said about this game, but I think it has had quite a striking visual upgrade, up there with Final Fantasy X. I don't think changing the core game mechanics is high on any HD remake's agenda. Also, the more you integrate the GamePad, the less likely it is that you'd be able to play the game solely on the controller. It's a situation I feel a lot of Wii U developers are facing right now. It seems to me the number one thing people love about the GamePad is the ability to use it as a portable device.



RandomNerds said:

This could have been an amazing two player Zelda experience had Nintendo decided to port/remake the tingle tuner experience to work on the gamepad. Instead we get some stupid message in a bottle thing... Oye, what a missed opportunity.



xXMariahManicXx said:

i always thought wind waker would have been great for the wii cause of the conductor like movements with the "Wind Waker Wand" its self. i hope you can control it with the wii mote.

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