News Article

Shadow of the Eternals "Unlikely" To Be Released If Funding Methods Fail

Posted by Orla Madden

Backers from devs own site will be refunded if necessary

It was announced earlier last month that a spiritual successor to Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem was in development for the Wii U. The game in question, Shadow of the Eternals, received the Kickstarter and independent crowdfunding treatment, with a major target of $1.5 million.

However, the developer has admitted that if both means of supporting the game fail, the game's unlikely to move forward.

In a recent Reddit AMA with Shawn Jackson, Chief Operating Officer at Precursor Games, a fan of the series asked if the game will still be made should the crowdfunding campaign and Kickstarter prove to be unsuccessful:

Q: Will the game still be made if you don't reach the funding goal?

Jackson: Since we do not have any other source of funding, it is unlikely.

Jackson also mentioned that should the campaign break down, refunds will be made through the game's official website:

If the project does not reach it's goal on Kickstarter, we will refund all pledges made through PayPal on our own site.

At the time of writing, Shadow of the Eternals has only raised $277,278 between both methods, well short of its $1.5 million target, while former Silicon Knights main man Denis Dyack has even resorted to releasing a video to defend his reputation; it's been a troubled campaign. With just seventeen days to go, will it reach its goal? Let us know your thoughts in the comment section.

[via polygon.com, reddit.com]

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User Comments (90)

Einherjar

#2

Einherjar said:

To be honest, the whole project was doomed from the start. It had a major identity crisis, bought art assets for a project with an uncertain release, it had to compete with its spiritual predecessor and later, turned out to be nothing like it. It had almost anything against it. Its really sad, but that is defenitly not the right way to make a game. Shows that crowdfunding isnt the holy grail of indie development.

LeVideoGamer

#3

LeVideoGamer said:

It looks great and I might put some money towards it at a later date, but with just seventeen days left to raise over $1.2million, it just doesn't look like it will happen. Hopefully something clicks and they hit their target.

SCAR392

#4

SCAR392 said:

Crowd funding is pretty iffy anyway. I'm surprised it got seemingly popular, considering there's been scams, and some not really good games on there anyway.
It still confuses me why people continue to donate after a goal is reached.
If the person is actually legit, I think it's worth possibly paying publishing fees, but nothing more(usually $10,000 per platform). That doesn't cost as much as actually relying on other people's money to support their own income so directly, just because they're making a game instead of having a job.
We all might as well start a KickStarter to buy own development tools.
$2,000 for a nice computer, and I'll make you a game, FOR FREE. I'll send you a blu-ray.

MiNiStRy

#5

MiNiStRy said:

If everyone just donated $1 (that had wii u's) it would be funded in no time I myself put $5 towards it.

XCWarrior

#6

XCWarrior said:

Not going to happen. Not that many people want a sequel. It's a vocal minority.

WaveBoy

#7

WaveBoy said:

I'd hate to see Sarah Michelle Gellar cry. Wouldn't want her to get all Buffy and have a Grudge now would we?
Untitled

DarkAngel_17

#8

DarkAngel_17 said:

Why can't Nintendo throw the cash in?.. It could be another exclusive title. Well looking too. C'mon Nintendo, shake your pockets!

MAN1AC

#9

MAN1AC said:

One name: Denis Dyack.

There was little to no interest in this game to begin with.

Nintenjoe64

#10

Nintenjoe64 said:

This whole thing is probably Dennis Dyack (and anyone else from Silicon Knights) trying to secure funding from Nintendo, for a sequel, by threatening to ruin one of their best franchises with a half-assed crowd-funded, episodic PC game.

It's also worrying that they could just be trying to make money out of Silicon Knights before it folds. Selling assets to a 'new' company and spending the money before they're forced to hand money over to epic games!

polynomer

#11

polynomer said:

@Einherjar What are you talking about?

"it had to compete with itsits spiritual predecessor and later, turned out to be nothing like it" WHAT?
How does it have to compete with ED? ED is a Gamecube game. So now 2014 games have to compete with 2002 Gamecube games?

And nothing like it? What are you talking about. It's a spiritual successor to ED. It has an episodic structure with many characters throughout history, like ED.
You have no idea what you're talking about.

Highwinter

#12

Highwinter said:

@SCAR392 People continue to donate so that they can get the rewards and so developers can continue to add more features to the game and/or polish it to a higher level of quality. Creating games is expensive and without the backing of a publisher, the developers themselves have to front the money, which is why the goal for many projects is so high.

If you don't like the idea of crowdfunding, you're under no obligation to help them get funded.. but games like Wasteland 2, Project Eternity, FTL and Broken Sword 5 are games that would NEVER be made if they were relying on typical publishing deals.

polynomer

#13

polynomer said:

@Nintenjoe64 If you actually read the AMA linked in this very article, you'd see that they've talked to Nintendo, Nintendo is fully informed and Nintendo is supportive of them trying to make this game via crowdfunding. I suggest you stop making things up with no evidence.

polynomer

#14

polynomer said:

@LeVideoGamer There's really no risk, since your money isn't taken by Kickstarter unless the goal is hit. And it only costs $5 to get first episode.

DarkCoolEdge

#15

DarkCoolEdge said:

They are not gonna reach the goal.

I see two problems:
1- People don't want to give money for a game that might not get finished because of its episodic nature.
2- Eternal Darkness is a cult classic but even it didn't sell much back in the day.

Add to those two the fact that people don't trust Denis Dyack. He hasn't the reputation and following of Obsidian, Brian Fargo or Tim Schafer and Double Fine. The hefty goal and steep different price tags of the rewards don't help either.

Sadly, it was doomed from the beginning

shingi_70

#16

shingi_70 said:

This isn't getting kickstarted. I like the idea and want to see a new horror game succeed and become a definite force again this generation but yeah no. I honestly don't have the problem of an episodic horror game as I loved the walking dead, but I doubt they would be able to pull it off.

At this point a pub is going to come in too save this project.

polynomer

#17

polynomer said:

@DarkCoolEdge The fact that it's episodic means that it will be cheaper (What other Kickstarter gives you a game for $5?) and it will be released sooner. Dyack isn't running the show, he's not in charge of Precursor. Objectively the game looks great, just look at the gameplay footage and all the videos that have been released since.

shingi_70

#18

shingi_70 said:

Its a bit crazy how we just took the word of Obsidian and Double Fine (to be fiar they're word is worth a lot). But Precursor isn't given the time of day despite having had much more of a known quantity that looked impressive and not just an idea.

Kirk

#19

Kirk said:

I don't think it will reach it's goal which is a shame, and a total shambles considering some of the games that actually have been fully funded on Kickstater (some where you don't even get to see a single screen of the game yet they are asking for hundreds of thousands), because I really wanna see this made.

Kirk

#20

Kirk said:

@Sony_70

Exactly what I was alluding to in my post too.

It's a total farce that this game can't get funding but those non-existent games, they didn't even have screens let alone footage of any kind when the Kickstarters were launched, somehow raised hundreds of thousands nad indeed millions.

That's just not right.

akabenjy

#21

akabenjy said:

I donated $50 because I'd like to play this game. Sad to see how little support its actually gotten.

9th_Sage

#22

9th_Sage said:

I might have donated a bit myself if Denis Dyack weren't involved. I don't think I trust him anymore to get a game out, let alone something that's good enough to deserve this sort of hype. It wouldn't be a good investment (which, people, is what Kickstarter is...you aren't guaranteed anything). It doesn't help that the whole thing with Precursor and Silicon Knights seems shady as hell.

SirQuincealot

#23

SirQuincealot said:

why would you call it shadow of the eternals? it sounds like they are trying to tric peope into thinking its a sequel to shadow of the colosuss, a game which i imagine would have no trouble getting funding

polynomer

#24

polynomer said:

@9th_Sage Dyack isn't in charge on Precursor Games. Tell me how specifically there is anything shady between Precursor and Silicon Knight?

If you look at the game objectively, the gameplay footage and the videos about the game since then, Eternal Darkness (since SotE will be similar to it) it looks awesome.

Peach64

#25

Peach64 said:

It doesn't matter wether someone has screens or footage to show. People like Tim Schafer. They TRUST Tim Schafer. What have Silicon Knights and Dennis Dyack done to make people believe they're worth funding? Their only good game was made while Nintendo had them on a very short leash. They want this crowd funded so they don't have a publisher to answer to, so there's nobody to keep them in line.

Neram

#26

Neram said:

Hate to say it, but it also looks "unlikely" that this kickstarter/crowdfund will even meet its goal.

Nintenjoe64

#27

Nintenjoe64 said:

@polynomer Are you Precursor in disguise?

I've followed this story closely and see no evidence of Nintendo having had any serious communication with this developer. They have said they've been talking to Nintendo but that means nothing. They're lobbying for their own game. Anything they say is an advertisement designed to get people like us to believe we'll get ED:2 for a donation. Hopefully Nintendo are watching and will take the project on if it gets anywhere near its target but there is just as much chance that this crowd-funding attempt came about after Nintendo told Precursor they wanted nothing to do with publishing it.

I hope it does turn out to be good (because ED:SR was my 2nd favourite GC game after RE4) and I don't think people really know whether Dennis Dyack is trustworthy or not but there is no escaping the fact that this was an SK game that has sneaked into the hands of a "new developer" around the point that SK were thought to have been wiped out by their legal issues. This is like a company not paying its bills, starting a new company with all the existing clients and just letting the old one burn because it no longer has any clients, leaving a massive unpaid tax and legal bill in its wake.

@Peach64 they made more than one very good game while Nintendo had them on a leash!

retro_player_22

#28

retro_player_22 said:

I had to admit I was one of the few ppl who's ready to pledge funding for the game but then they had to announce the game as being episodic (meaning it'll probably take forever for them to finish the whole game). Not only that but the fact that even the PC will get the game before the Wii U means this would probably may not retain exclusivity for long. I have my doubt, the original was great and though it didn't sell as good it was an instant classic and was a finish product. This game for some reason kept leaving me with second thoughts, the guy who planned to developed this is better off going back to Silicon Knights and Nintendo and just turn it into Eternal Darkness 2 instead. Nintendo already re-trademarked the license, just go back and use it and release it as a real game (physically) instead of forcing it to go digital and turning it into episodic.

onex

#29

onex said:

So sad. I miss games like ED. What game these days messes with the player the way ED did? Because I want to play more like it. A shame its "sequel" got caught up in such a debacle. :(

polynomer

#30

polynomer said:

@retro_player_22 If they released in 1 part instead of 1/12 parts, then it would obviously take roughly 12 times as long. So episodic would make it release 12 times faster. Also where are you getting this idea that the PC will be released before the Wii U version. As far as I can tell, that was never stated anywhere. Citation?

9th_Sage

#31

9th_Sage said:

@polynomer Are you kidding me? Dyack is Chief Creative Officer of Precursor Games...if you think he's not involved you simply haven't been paying attention (or are willfully ignoring the facts). Also, when I say 'shady things', I mean everything. They might as well be Silicon Knights...Silicon Knights folks working on computers bought from Silicon Knights, with assets that sound like they came from a Silicon Knights project. It sounds kind of like they did it this way to avoid the fallout of the lawsuit with Epic. I could be wrong (hell, I hope I'm wrong) but none of this instills confidence in them as far as I'm concerned.

JFug

#32

JFug said:

At this point all we can hope for is a proper sequel from Nintendo...

WesGrogan

#33

WesGrogan said:

An old-schooler, I bought Eternal Darkness the day it was released and played the heck out of it. Loved it. However, I am not putting one penny toward this project. I accepted years ago that there would not be a sequel, and I've seen too many sequels come out years later only to fail utterly to capture the charm of the original (Perfect Dark Zero, as an example). Additionally, Dyack is a serious factor to consider - I just don't believe he can deliver. Finally, it's episodic and I don't trust that they would be all to deliver each episode. Enough episodic games have failed to deliver that my faith simply isn't there. The only deliverers of episodic games that I trust are Telltale.

polynomer

#34

polynomer said:

@Nintenjoe64 So I can't just be a fan of ED who wants to see this awesome looking game made. No, I must be a paid shill because I disagree with you.

Well, making things up without proof does seem to be your MO. You claim that SK has spun assets off to a new company to avoid paying for a lawsuit. But where's the evidence? Prove it.

Let's review the facts.

Firstly, Precursor games was created by Paul Caporicci who wanted to start a new company after being fired, so it wasn't masterminded by Dyack to avoid playing a lawsuit.

Secondly, you are accusing Precursor of a fraudulent transfer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraudulent_transfer This is something illegal, so would Epic now sue them to recover that money? It's not so smart to make a fraudulent transfer and then reveal it to the world by a public Kickstarter campaign so that Epic's lawyers know exactly where the money is, is it? So since you've accused them of illegality and deception, why don't you tell me what their master plan is, given that Epic now knows?

Thirdly, Epic is fully aware that Precursor bought assets from SK. In fact, they have no problems with it:
"Epic Games attorneys filed legal motions after Silicon Knights sold its computers to Precursor Games in July 2012, asking the company to verify that it had formatted all of its computers, ensuring that Silicon Knights' game engine and assets had not made their way over to the new company. According to a court document, those computers were all wiped clean before they were sold."
Source: http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/9/4316936/silicon-knights-epic-games-precursor-games

They're not suing Precursor. But according to your claim of illegality, they should be, so tell me why aren't they?

Lastly, your claim about Nintendo is also bogus. Here's Shawn Jackson from the AMA:
"Q: Have you spoken to Nintendo about funding the remainder of whatever you don't raise? Seems like they would be itching to have an ED successor/mature title on the WiiU.
A: We have been in constant communication with Nintendo and they have been supportive but we have not spoken to them about this particular avenue."

If this is a lie, why doesn't Nintendo say so?

ToadFan

#35

ToadFan said:

I think Nintendo should just get another developer besides Precursor Games to release a true sequel on Wii U.

DarkCoolEdge

#36

DarkCoolEdge said:

@polynomer I was just saying why I think it is failing, which means that I don't necessarily think that way, but a lot of people do and thus it is falling short.

Read better next time ;)

polynomer

#38

polynomer said:

@9th_Sage See #34

"Epic Games attorneys filed legal motions after Silicon Knights sold its computers to Precursor Games in July 2012, asking the company to verify that it had formatted all of its computers, ensuring that Silicon Knights' game engine and assets had not made their way over to the new company. According to a court document, those computers were all wiped clean before they were sold."
Source: http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/9/4316936/silicon-knights-epic-games-precursor-games

What else is shady?

polynomer

#39

polynomer said:

@Peach64 Maybe they're doing the crowdfunding thing because they don't want to lose creative control to a publisher.

Do you really think a mainstream publisher would let the 2 main characters of episode 1 be evil, murderous lesbian lovers (yes, they really are lesbian lovers)?

Do you think a publisher would pick this up given that ED sold less than a million, despite critical acclaim?

9th_Sage

#40

9th_Sage said:

@polynomer Haha, well that IS what they say. I'm not sure that I believe this really happened. Even if I did, there's...I dunno...the everything else that I mentioned. I'll save you some trouble though, you're not going to find something that will convince me to give them money.

polynomer

#41

polynomer said:

@9th_Sage Everything else like what? Name one.

@WesGrogan Well, they do have a plan and budget to release future episodes. But it's no different from TV or movies. Do you avoid watching them because sometimes they get cancelled?

Yes, there's a risk that the game could get cancelled midway. But it's $5 per episode, so if it gets cancelled halfway you only pay half price ($30 for 6 episodes), also the episodes contain self-contained stories (which links to the overall story, like ED).

9th_Sage

#42

9th_Sage said:

@polynomer Oh my god man, I already did. If you're going to argue with me about this at least try to actually read what I'm posting. To re-iterate in the plainest of terms: At this point, I really don't trust any company with Denis Dyack in a directing/producing/management position to deliver a game that I would care to play (if they finish it at all). If you want any more details than that, try reading please. I'm done with talking about this, it's clear you're here only to argue about this (are you Precursor Games indeed...).

polynomer

#43

polynomer said:

@9th_Sage I did read. You said: "Also, when I say 'shady things', I mean everything."

Everything. Then you went on to talk about the sale of assets from SK to Precursor because, you allege, they wanted to avoid the lawsuit. I already debunked this. I explained why this is implausible, and gave a source saying that Epic is aware of and OK with the transfer. So there's nothing dodgy here.

What else have you got? I said name one. You said everything is shady, so can you name one?

Nintenjoe64

#44

Nintenjoe64 said:

@polynomer

I was joking, I don't think you're a paid stooge of Precursor. I admire your passion for wanting this game to be released. I never said it was fraudulent. I am aware that what they've done is perfectly legal, much like Donald Trump and his many bankruptcies.

Nintendo does not comment on much, just look at the WiiU speculation. They've allowed outright lies to be published about their console almost every day for a year. Shawn Jackson of Precursor games says they've had "constant communication"... "but haven't spoken them about this avenue". This could mean anything. If it were all great, why haven't Nintendo tried to encourage a shred of support for it. They could post the link to the funding page on Facebook. If they do that I will donate $50.

retro_player_22

#45

retro_player_22 said:

@polynomer It being episodic may also mean you had to buy the game piece by piece. So if the game had like say 8 chapters or episodes each costing $15 separately, then it'll roughly be around $120 to get the full experience. Also the fact that it is going episodic means the game may likely not just going to be on Wii U and PC but other platforms too like iOS and Ouya. As for me I just want a true sequel that I can just pop into my system and play it til the end. No waiting for another episode and no paying for that episode. I can wait for as long as the development shows promises and will buy the game if the finish product is good and complete.

WesGrogan

#46

WesGrogan said:

@polynomer That is a very faulty comparison. I am not investing any money in the television show, nor is the television show blatantly promising me that it will be completed. You could make more of an argument for a movie trilogy, but even then it doesn't mean I'm going to give my money to the movie before it's even made.

You're not trying to sell me the game after it's made and one episode at a time, you're trying to sell me all twelve episodes at the same time. If I don't believe all 12 will be made, I won't invest in the project to begin with. Approach me after it is made with one episode at a time, and I'll let you know what I think. Right now, I just don't find it believable that it would ever happen. Judging by the results on both of their crowd funding projects, I'm far from alone.

They had their chance to do right by their series. They instead spent their time, money, and reputation on Too Human. It was a mistake. They need to live with that.

@retro_player_22 Well said.

Einherjar

#47

Einherjar said:

@polynomer Since its cosidered to be a spiritual successor to Eternal Darkness, almost anyone will compare the two. And there is no way, that it can stand against Eternal Darkness, a game considered to be an all time classic. When it was released doesnt matter at all. Like each and every J&R has to compete against a number of mario games: "The jumping physics are nothing like mario" yadda yadda.
So, yoz have a project, that had major problems from the start that tries to hold the candle against a game, consideredd instant and all time classic. These are not the best signs...

Regarding:"nothing like it" It was stated, that it didnt feature the same mechanics, like the sanity system, like Eternal Darkness. To me, thats like taking away MegaMans ability to copy abilities and weapons and still calling it "spiritual successor" It just becomes like any other NES shooter and looses its identity.

9th_Sage

#49

9th_Sage said:

@polynomer here's a shocker for you, ready? It's my opinion! Just like what you're saying is your opinion! I'll grant you that the thing with the PCs isn't something anyone could ever prove (since it's their word). If none of it seems shady to you, great! That said, I wouldn't give money to something that to me seems pretty shady (that 'hey we're doing crowdfunding on this thing that's like Kickstarter but oh wait it's our website really' bit didn't help either...for a bit I actually thought that it WAS Kickstarter. At least on Kickstarter, I know you will definitely not be charged anything should it not meet it's goal..on their site I honestly have no clue).

Anyway, even if I didn't feel that way, I don't think that a team led by Denis Dyack can pull something like this off. It's clear that SK isn't what they were at one time, and this company staffed with a lot of SK people, also isn't what Silicon Knights once was. I think you misunderstand me, however...I'd love for them to prove me wrong on all of this, but I'm not going to donate my money towards something I don't feel is ever going to come out any way (seems like a bad investment, which again is what Kickstarter more or less is).

In the end, I don't agree with you and that's really all there is to it. Feel free to disagree, just don't expect to convince me.

polynomer

#50

polynomer said:

@retro_player_22 It's 5 an episode (not 15) and 50 for the whole thing. Feel free to pledge on Kickstarter now.

Also, it's only announced for PC and Wii U. And why does it matter if it does eventually come out on other consoles.

Releasing it episodes means it will be released faster. There is no chance this game will be made at once. Hell, it's very likely won't even hit this goal.

WesGrogan

#51

WesGrogan said:

@Strongo9 I absolutely agree. Having publishers exercising control is not always a bad thing. They can keep projects on track without spiraling out of control, provide needed funding for marketing, and simply provide additional resources as needed. For indie developers, avoiding publishers can be beneficial as they are then far more predatory, but this is the exact opposite of an indie game.

polynomer

#52

polynomer said:

@Einherjar It will compete with Eternal Darkness? That's the most outrageous thing I've heard. So people are going to go out and buy a Gamecube and Eternal Darkness because of this game?

That's like saying that Halo 4 competes with Halo 1. Or that Starcraft 2 competes with Starcraft 1. Or that Call of Duty: Ghosts competes with Call of Duty: MW3. It doesn't compete. No one will buy a Gamecube game because they don't make Gamecubes anymore and they don't sell Gamecube games.

Where was it stated that it doesn't have a sanity system? Source. Prove it.

In fact, it will have sanity. In fact, a whole subforum on the official forums is dedicated to community suggestions for sanity events.

From the Reddit AMA linked on this very article:
"Q: 2) Will the main part of the game puzzle, story or combat?
A: 2.)Balance of all, and a few more: exploration/discovery and of course sanity/alteration of reality."

That's the problem: People are just making poop up that are wrong and untrue. Without any evidence.

polynomer

#53

polynomer said:

@9th_Sage Did you read the Polygon article? Can't prove because it's their word? No. In the Polygon article, it says that there are court documents about the PC thing. So it definitely can be proved.

They already explained that it was difficult for them to start a Kickstarter because they're a Canadian company and Kickstarter is only possible if you have an American and UK presence. In their first podcast, they stated they got Kickstarter up after getting advice on how it could be done and that they had to go through the IRS (tax collection agency of the USA) despite them being from Canada.

As for the crowd funding on their sites. They stated at least 20 days ago that it will be refunded if Kickstarter fails (in fact they said it at the very start too):
“Some people may ask what happens to the pledges on our site if the Kickstarter does not move forward, and the answer is simple: We will issue refunds on our site if the project does not reach its goal on Kickstarter,” said Paul Caporicci.
Source: http://www.precursorgames.com/precursor-games-launches-kickstarter-for-shadow-of-the-eternals/

DarkLloyd

#54

DarkLloyd said:

damn, i guess thats out of the question hopfully nintendo sees the light of this and gets eternal darkness 2 underway unless they already secretly were.

Davidiam007

#55

Davidiam007 said:

I feel like when if this fails, a lot of third party companies will use this as an example to why the wont support nintendo consoles. You can argue this all you want, but if I were a developer and I saw this I would turn away. Cause that's the problem that a lot of developers see and shy away cause nintendo fans support first party, but hardly support third parties. Activision has made a statement about this.
This is sad cause a crap load of fans have been asking for this game. I for one would rather fund an indie game then have some publisher turn it to crap. I put my $25 down for 6 episodes and if each episode is at least an hour to two hours long that would be awesome.

Einherjar

#56

Einherjar said:

@polynomer Are you even aware of what you are writing ? People dont need "to run out and buy ED and a GameCube" People already know the game, geez.
And of course poeple compare Halo 4 to Halo 1 and so on...are you serious ?
"Smash Bros Melee was better than Brawl, Lego Batman 2 was way better than LB1" so on and so forth. Please tell me your trolling and / or are just trieing to start an internet fight, because no one can be so blind not to see the points im trying to make...

polynomer

#57

polynomer said:

@Einherjar Stop changing the subject. You said "compete" not "compare". Also, you were completely wrong about this game not having sanity. Admit that you were wrong.

You wrote: "it had to compete with its spiritual predecessor and later, turned out to be nothing like it." You were wrong You made stuff up.

WesGrogan

#58

WesGrogan said:

@Davidiam007 Most developers know about Silicon Knights and Denis Dyack. They understand the hesitation on this one and see success with other kickstarters. If they are just fishing for reasons to not do what they already planned on not doing, then sure - they can latch onto this or say they aren't developing for the Wii U because the sky is gray that day. If they are being honest, however, this one kickstarter won't affect development for the Wii U by other developers at all.

polynomer

#59

polynomer said:

@WesGrogan Here's a developer: ‘I was (and am) a huge fan of Eternal Darkness, and I'm quite excited to hear that a spiritual successor is in the works from folks who worked on the original game!'

  • Dr. Ray Muzyka, - Founder of Bioware
WesGrogan

#60

WesGrogan said:

@polynomer - Bioware, owned by EA, that won't be making any games for the Wii U any time soon anyway, thus not negating my point. I was simply pointing out to @Davidiam007 that this will not single-handedly create a drought of games on the Wii U.

And look, let's be serious for a moment, okay? You need to seriously calm the hell down about all of this. You are way too invested in this. People are going to have their reservations and are allowed to have their reservations. Taking on a talk radio attitude toward them is not going to change their opinion one way or another. You trust them and believe everything they've said. I don't. @9th_Sage doesn't. A lot of other people don't, as they've not put their money into the project. If they want a AAA release to follow-up on Eternal Darkness, they need to do it the right way. If they want to do a lower-tier, more indie level release of something tied to Eternal Darkness, they need to lower their goals and promises and be more realistic with their goals. Either way, calm the heck down. You're coming across as rabid, which is not exactly helping convince anyone.

polynomer

#61

polynomer said:

@WesGrogan It's really not that different from a TV show or movie. The first thing you learn in econ101: everything has a cost, more precisely an opportunity cost. Watching a free TV show, costs whatever the most valuable alternative that you could have done with that time. So the comparison is valid. Do you avoid watching TV shows and movie trilogies for fear that they will be cancelled before completion.

Like I said this is a risk, but such risks exist in every form of media. And if you don't get all 12 episodes, then you won't have to pay for all 12 episodes.

Davidiam007

#62

Davidiam007 said:

@wesgrogen.
But that's what publishers have already been doing. Finding any reason to latch on to, to help support their claim for why they aren't supporting nintendo.

Einherjar

#63

Einherjar said:

@polynomer Sorry dude, but you give me a serious headache right now. If it wasnt for my feaver, i would explain everything a third time, you you are just too stressful. So, keep on hoping that the entire game sees the light of day and people wont say "but ED was way better" When it comes to me, i absolutely doubt it. And thats the last thing im goingt to say to you. Let off some steam man...

9th_Sage

#64

9th_Sage said:

@polynomer Ok, on the PC thing I do think I perhaps read that wrong on reading the article once again (if the court indeed verified that the PCs were wiped that's that). It still doesn't seem 100% clear to me if that is what they are saying but ok...I'll just give you that one. Also, hey, it's good that they say they are going to refund the ones on their website, I hope that they do. The thing is...that's nothing but their word. As I said, on Kickstarter you're protected without a doubt on that much at least because there is a third party. Also, by the way, they could have went with IndieGoGo if they were having trouble with Kickstarter instead of making something that looked like Kickstarter. For a minute I honestly thought that it was some kind of embedded version of Kickstarter.

Anyway, again, as I said already...even if things did seem totally awesome to me, I don't think this is going to work out and thus wouldn't give them money. Like @WesGrogan I'm done with debating this since it's far out lived any kind of useful debate we could've had. Good luck, I really do hope they prove me wrong.

polynomer

#65

polynomer said:

@WesGrogan I quoted Muzyka because of your statement: "Most developers know about Silicon Knights and Denis Dyack. They understand the hesitation on this one and see success with other kickstarters."

Look. I wouldn't have to make all these posts if people stop making up stuff, without evidence that are flat out untrue--lies. Like the fact that the game won't have sanity. Or like the fact that Precursor is SK's attempt at dodging a lawsuit. Or that we can't know what happened with the art sales despite there being court records. Or that Precursor could take the money from Paypal despite what happens with Kickstarter. Or that the PC version will come out before the Wii U version.

Let's be serious. It's OK to express reservations that are grounded in reality. It's not OK to make poop up without evidence as a lot of you have done here.

WesGrogan

#66

WesGrogan said:

@Davidiam007 - then nothing done here is going to change that one way or another. In the situation you are speaking of, the decision is already made and they just want a reason to tack on. Any reason will do.

@polynomer - headdesk Tell you what. I'll spend thirty minutes looking at their kickstarter page and see if that helps them get the ball rolling. If you really want an answer to your ridiculously flawed question, I watch television shows in chunks after the season has ended, so as to avoid commercials - it does have the added benefit of not worrying about whether or not a show is cancelled mid-season. So yeah, I guess you could say that I do.

You're irrational and far too emotionally invested to ever see anything clearly, so I'm done with this. Best wishes to you and hope you get your game.

polynomer

#67

polynomer said:

@9th_Sage Funny that you express doubt that they will refund the Paypal, and then you suggest IndieGoGo, which allows the developer to keep some money even if the goal isn't reach (unlike Kickstarter, which is all or nothing).

polynomer

#68

polynomer said:

@WesGrogan Good for you. At least your consistent on episodic media. I'm invested in pointing out complete BS and extraordinary claims with zero evidence, more so than I'm at this game.

9th_Sage

#69

9th_Sage said:

@polynomer they do, if that's how your project on IndieGoGo is set up. It's a moot point, given they didn't use IndieGoGo and we don't know what they'd have chosen if they did.

"What if I don't reach my funding goal?
If your campaign is set up as Flexible Funding, you will be able to keep the funds you raise, even if you don't meet your goal. If your campaign is set up as Fixed Funding, all contributions will be returned to your funders if you do not meet your goal. Flexible Funding campaigns that meet their goal are only charged 4% as our platform fee, whereas campaigns that do not meet their goal are charged 9%."

edit
That's from IndieGoGo's FAQ page, by the way.

polynomer

#70

polynomer said:

@9th_Sage Well, that's basically what I said. So your so concerned that they'll steal the Paypal money despite their word to the contrary, that you suggest crowdfunding on a site that would let them do exactly that.

9th_Sage

#71

9th_Sage said:

@polynomer you didn't read the FAQ I quoted, eh? Oh well, whatever. We don't agree, we aren't going to agree. I'm glad you believe in them so (apparently?). Hopefully that trust is not misplaced.

polynomer

#72

polynomer said:

@9th_Sage I read it. It supports my argument. It says they could set it up in a way where they can keep the money even without hitting the goal. You accused them of possibly stealing the money, why then did you suggest an alternative mode of fundraising that lets them steal the money?


@SCAR392 It makes no sense for Nintendo to want this to fail specifically so that they can control this game. If they wanted to control the game, they would have offered to fund it subject to their conditions. Nor would Nintendo know that this would fail before it was announced. They've stated in the AMA that Nintendo is supportive of them making this game. Also the game will have sanity effects.


@Discostew Dyack is part of the team, but he isn't in charge of Precursor. Check out this hour long interview if you want to hear from Dyack himself (as opposed to the internet rumor version of Dyack):
http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/115145
If you look at it objectively, the game looks awesome. For example, here's what OpRainfall said:
http://operationrainfall.com/why-shadow-of-the-eternals-matters/
http://operationrainfall.com/interview-precursor-games-highlights/

Again it's not just Dyack, Ken McCulloch who was Art Direction & Content Supervisor on Eternal Darkness is also on the team and probably the most active developer on the forums.

Davidiam007

#74

Davidiam007 said:

Why isn't epic being looked at as dirt bags as well for the whole epic vs silicon knights fiasco? Weren't they the ones withholding money to fund their gears of war project?

SCAR392

#75

SCAR392 said:

Maybe Nintendo is waiting for them to fail, then they can fund them and control what they make. Nintendo probably doesn't like the looks of the game. I know I don't.
Having the ED connection shouldn't be a reason to fund this game. It may have heen a good game, but a large company is asking for money, and it isn't a TRUE sequel.
If you want a true sequel to ED, you should be wanting this game to fail, because it won't exist without Nintendo owning the rights of the name and sanity meter.

Discostew

#76

Discostew said:

The only way I'd see this continue is if Nintendo funded it and called the shots on how it is handled. Past experience with Denis Dyack prevents me from funding it, even if it reached its goal.

EvisceratorX

#77

EvisceratorX said:

I believe an apt phrase for this situation is "No S**t!" Honestly, they were asking for way too much for this game. The original was pretty good, but it's only really managed a cult following not mainstream success. I would've loved for this game to happen, but I knew it would fail the second I saw them ask for 1.5 million.

Pestilence

#79

Pestilence said:

Denis Dyack... Denis Dyack... The Producer Denis Dyack of the Crap-Game Too Human, that used an unauthorized Version of the Unreal Engine 3, because they never payed Epic Games? That Denis Dyack wants Money to program another Game to make a poopy Game and become sued?

I dont even would give that Guy Money, when he is filling me Car with Gas, because i'm afraid that the Gas was stolen from another Filling Station.

polynomer

#81

polynomer said:

@Pestilence Dyack is part of the team, but he isn't in charge of Precursor. The CEO of Precursor is Paul Caporicci. Again it's not just Dyack, Ken McCulloch is also work on this, he was Art Directior & Content Supervisor on Eternal Darkness is also on the team and probably the most active developer on the forums. Check out this hour long interview if you want to hear from Dyack himself (as opposed to the internet rumor version of Dyack):
http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/115145

The game was not stolen as I explained in #34 here: http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/06/shadow_of_the_eternals_unlikely_to_be_released_if_funding_methods_fail#comment1669644

polynomer

#82

polynomer said:

@SCAR392 They asked for what they thought it would cost. You can check out their budget breakdown here if you want more info: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TztRwC6Kno

Hordak

#83

Hordak said:

Just for fun, a few weeks ago, I wiped my computer and started a crowd funded project of which I told people I would fully refund them if it didn't get the amount needed for my project. After getting bored with a completely wiped computer, I decided to restore my computer with the backup I made of the drive before the initial wipe. Then, when my funding goal wasn't met, I used my own website to refund everyone who pledged through Paypal. I gave everyone a refund for their full pledge amount as an "in-house credit" that could put toward any of my future projects. I thought my project would cost $3.7 million. I guess I was a little off. I'll be planning my next project while dealing with the sadness of not making my goal from a beach in the Caribbean. :)

(note: This is a fictional story. No fanboys or n00bs were harmed in the making of this scenario.)

polynomer

#84

polynomer said:

@SuperMario2099 We can read between the lines. That isn't what's happening. They're not making any money off of this if the Kickstarter fails. There will be no Caribbean vacation.

Pod

#86

Pod said:

What a sad case of self-fulfilling prophecies.

Everybody boos Denis off stage because of his last two games (one of which went through development hell from suits trying to make it the AAA Xbox Action Orgasm it was never meant to be, and the other was a cheaply produced licensing job,) and a law suit that has already been solved, and the one game that everybody WOULD want to play, that he's making his own way with his old team, doesn't get to happen.

t3g

#87

t3g said:

I know this makes many of you sad, but it is not the responsibility of the consumer to donate money to a company that makes its money from profit. I know that the studio is much smaller than EA or Nintendo, but this isn't a person or small business just getting started. All the times these big corporations and celebrities are abusing Kickstarter when they make much more than the average joe.

element187

#88

element187 said:

@DarkAngel_17 Nintendo knows this company all too well.... They are having legal problems with Epic games. Ninty knows not to get invovled with them at the moment.

polynomer

#89

polynomer said:

@DarkCoolEdge "Add to those two the fact that people don't trust Denis Dyack. He hasn't the reputation and following of Obsidian, Brian Fargo or Tim Schafer and Double Fine."

Brian Fargo? Has a good reputation? Really? The guy who founded Interplay, a company that is now effectively as defunct as Silicon Knights, and then when to start up a new company after the failure of Interplay: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interplay_Entertainment

ungibbed

#90

ungibbed said:

Either way despite the politics and crowd funding failure, why not re-release Eternal Darkness upscaled to 1080p and have a portion of the money of sales of that game to the fans that loved it help fund a successor to the game. I'd love to get a original copy of ED, but sadly, it's very hard to find and also quite expensive complete in box. MGS: Twin Snakes was a great remix of the Playstation classic. A bit overdone in some areas but one heck of an awesome GameCube title.

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