News Article

Grant Kirkhope Wishes He Could Make Banjo-Kazooie 3 For Nintendo

Posted by Andy Green

Explains why Rare chose to make Nuts & Bolts

Banjo-Kazooie is revered by many as one of the best games to ever grace the N64. The platformer, which starred a docile bear and a wise-cracking bird, could have ended up being something completely different as it was originally set to be a highly ambitious venture known as Project Dream.

Speaking as a special guest on the Game Grumps web series, former Rare composer Grant Kirkhope revealed the team behind Banjo-Kazooie actually took the majority of its platforming ideas from another game that the developer had in the works, Twelve Tales: Conker 64.

As Kirkhope explains:

We were doing Dream and we had this really elaborate floor system where you could stretch the polygons on the floor to any shape, like a really elaborate landscape, but the N64 couldn’t run it - it wasn’t powerful enough.

We were continuing with the game but it wasn’t going very well. Conker was going at the same time and had this really fantastic early demo that they did which was very like a Banjo platformer.

After seeing what Twelve Tales: Conker 64 was starting to look like, the head of Dream's development team said Banjo needed to become "more like Conker" because of its friendly platforming aspects.

So we changed all our mechanics to be like Conker and got Banjo going. Then when that happened Conker fell behind cause they started experimenting with other stuff.

Twelve Tales: Conker 64 changed into Conker's Bad Fur Day because Chris Seavor was brought in to design it instead and started to make massive changes.

Banjo-Kazooie has a sequel in the form of Banjo-Tooie and a third game in the series was also released on the Xbox 360 called Banjo-Kazooie Nuts & Bolts, which was not very well received at all because of the developer's decision to move away from the platforming genre. The game instead featured vehicles that you would create yourself and then have Banjo and Kazooie ride around in them.

Kirkhope spoke about why Rare decided to make the changes saying he wasn't fully behind the ideas that were brought up:

I didn't like it really. I didn't think it’s what we should've done. Tim Stamper’s idea was to remake the original game as a co-op and to remodel it all.

A lot of senior guys on the team, me included, thought that was a bad idea so we sort of moaned about it quite a lot. And it went ahead a little bit and we said in all the time it would take to retexture all these levels and make it look great we might as well just do a newer game.

The higher-ups at Rare then went and thought about it for a little while before creating a new idea, as Kirkhope explains:

Rare had just bought that Havok physics engine, Rare used to do all their own stuff, but they bought Havok for a change to use it for the physics stuff and because it was all really fantastic and the geometry worked great, the car idea came out of that.

I really said we should make Banjo Threeie, that’s what people want to see, but at the time it looked like platform games weren’t… it was the year when platformers weren’t as popular people wanted shooters and all that kind of stuff and so we all thought it wouldn’t sell and people wouldn’t want to play a game like that.

Kirkhope appeared to be despondent about not being able to make the game he, and everyone else, wanted and says he still holds out some hope he can bring it to a Nintendo console in the future.

I keep wishing that all the ex-Rare staff, there’s lots of them about now, would just get together and form a company, and go to Nintendo and say “give us the money. We’ll make you Banjo 3 for the Wii U or whatever”.

Just make Banjo 3 like it should have been made back then and it would be great, and it would be great on the Wii U.

Of course with Rare holding the rights to the Banjo-Kazooie IP this is incredibly unlikely at this stage. It doesn't mean we can't dream though...

The Grant Kirkhope special of Game Grumps is on YouTube now, but be warned it features a lot of bad language throughout.

What are your thoughts on all of this? Did you play Nuts & Bolts? Would you like to see a new Banjo-Kazooie game that goes back to its platforming roots? Let us know in the comments section below.

[via youtube.com]

More Stories

Related Games

User Comments (86)

Unoquazin

#1

Unoquazin said:

No real problems here, but try to fix the "didn't go down TOO well with fans" tagline underneath the photo at the top.

I would love this, as I love Banjo-Kazooie, but I've never experienced Tooie, unfortunately.

Lin1876

#3

Lin1876 said:

I liked Nuts and Bolts. Remove the fact it's Banjo and there's a decent game in there!

Cevan

#5

Cevan said:

Someone needs to start a fan movement to resurrect the Banjo series. I'm sure it get tons of supporters once the word was spread. Anyone want to do it?

real_gamer

#6

real_gamer said:

I feel your pain Kirkhope...damn you Microsoft! Wish Nintendo could buy Rare stocks back if possible.

Meaty-cheeky

#7

Meaty-cheeky said:

Microsoft during its early days of the XBOX and first year of the XBOX 360 had a great library of games made by Rare, like Conker, Grabbed by the Ghoulies, and Kameo, but now Microsoft just makes Rare only work on lame Xbox Kinetic games and avatars.

Microsoft should just pull out it's stocks in Rare since Microsoft only seems to care about its Shooters nowadays like Halo, Gears, and Call of Duty.

Rare needs to go back to NIntendo.

Mk_II

#9

Mk_II said:

@Meaty-cheeky No, Rare is not the Rare it used to be. The Stamper brothers and everyone else who used to work there has long gone. There's no reason at all for Nintendo to buy them.

SunnyShores

#10

SunnyShores said:

banjo 3 would be epic. i grew up playing banjo kazooie and twooie. nuts and bolts was terrible. so a new banjo platformer would be amazing.

StephenYap3

#12

StephenYap3 said:

@Meaty-cheeky

Agreed. Microsoft is just slaving them to death. Heck, Rare wanted to make a Killer Instinct 3! Why hasn't it been made? Microsoft denied it.

MrWalkieTalkie

#13

MrWalkieTalkie said:

Even the sequel to Conker's Bad Fur Day, "Conker's Other Bad Fur Day" never got made thanks to Microsoft...

TwilightV

#14

TwilightV said:

Nintendo buying up Rare's old franchises would be awesome. They could even hire back the guys who want to work on them.

PvtOttobot

#15

PvtOttobot said:

Never played a banjo game, don't really want to, I grew up with GC and PS1, doesn't mean I want a remake of Grudge Wars or Rouge Squadron, I really do like this new generation!

3DSLUIGI

#18

3DSLUIGI said:

For me, I'd really love to see a Banjo-Kazooie get ported onto the 3DS at this point of Nintendo's life since I recall RARE saying before a long while back that making a game for Nintendo's portable was OK as long as they had Microsoft's permission to do it. I really did enjoy Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie , 2 of the best DAM games RARE ever made imo next to Donkey Kong 64 , but I never did like the look of Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts. It just didn't feel like a Banjo game at all to me. As for something else, I'm surprised that the GBA Banjo Kazooie: Grunty's Revenge game by THQ wasn't mentioned. I think RARE had a hand in making that game, but I'm not all that sure about it since it's been a long time since I played that game. For me, I may be the only one saying this, but for a game series like Banjo venturing onto the GBA back in that era, it played pretty good imo for a game not many ppl expected to see on a portable like the GBA.

bizcuthammer

#19

bizcuthammer said:

Banjo-kazooie remains to this day my all time favorite 3D platformer. I bought nuts and bolts when it came out and hated it. I dont hate it because its not a traditional banjo game... I hated it because it just wasnt fun to me. If the team that made the original got back together and made a spiritual successor for the wii u, it'd be a day one buy for me. Rare is dead... M$ killed it like they do everything else i care about except halo. But rare's former employees should reunite... That company once had just as much talent as nintendo ead does. It'd be great for them to make games together again, especially if they're on nintendo consoles!

Haxonberik

#20

Haxonberik said:

Microsoft buying rare still goes down as maybe the biggest tragedy in the video game industry history to me. I still feel bad about it today

DarkCoolEdge

#21

DarkCoolEdge said:

Banjo Threeie would be an amazing anouncement. It's not gonna happen even on a MS console. Still I ain't sure about what would I prefer more, Banjo 3 or Perfect Dark 2. The team that made PD back in the day would make an incredible PD game with WiiU

@bizcuthammer you like it more than Mario and/or Galaxy? :s

Zombie_Barioth

#22

Zombie_Barioth said:

I'm glad Kirkhope talked about this, from what I've heard a lot of people were saying it was someone from Microsoft pushing to change the game into Nuts n' Bolts not what I assume is one of the new guys brought in after buying RARE.

It'd be really cool to see a lot of the former RARE employees come together to form their own company, I'd love to see more of their work and I'm sure I'm far from alone on that one.

AltDotNerd

#23

AltDotNerd said:

Does Microsoft simply refuse to sell the rights to Banjo & Kazooie to Nintendo?

For the record, Nuts & Bolts sucked. It was pathetic and makes me never want to invest anything with Microsoft again.

Banjogeek

#24

Banjogeek said:

@AltDotNerd You can ask that for alot of things probably because Rare isn't the rare we know and now is Kinect making Avatar sports games that don't sell well.

Edit:maybe they do sell welll but who do you know in there right minds has a Kinect that is not a reviewer or a collector of video games.The only reason Kinect is selling well is because it's bundled with every Xbox360.

Neram

#26

Neram said:

I think all the ex-Rare staff should seriously get together and start a new company, and work for Nintendo again. It's actually not impossible if you think about it, or even that unlikely. Maybe (just maybe) some of them will see this and spread the word.

One can hope.

doctor_doak

#29

doctor_doak said:

"I keep wishing that all the ex-Rare staff, there’s lots of them about now, would just get together and form a company, and go to Nintendo and say “give us the money. We’ll make you Banjo 3 for the Wii U or whatever”.

"Just make Banjo 3 like it should have been made back then and it would be great, and it would be great on the Wii U".

Yeah, well this is what pretty much every Nintendo fan has been saying all along.. This is what bugs me about the XBox...it has absolutely killed platformers, action-adventure (ala Beyond Good and Evil), puzzle-adventure games, and any game idea with an ounce of creativity.. If you're not Halo, a military shooter, a Gears of War clone or Skyrim then you're pretty much irrelevant.

Nintendo need to round up ex-RARE staffers and get them creating platformers for wii u. DO IT!!

Kage_88

#30

Kage_88 said:

I thought Nuts & Bolts was unfairly maligned. IMO, it was a great title that oozed with originality and innovation. And it looked BEAUTIFUL.

With that said, I'd welcome a Banjo 3 on Wii U with open arms.

It's not like Microsoft is doing anything with the IP...

skjia

#31

skjia said:

Didn't they say before that they wanted to make a spiritual successor to banjo kazooie? I'd be all for that and I'm pretty sure legally it wouldn't be a problem. There should a petition for that, since it's actually possible lol.

FOURSIDE_BOY

#33

FOURSIDE_BOY said:

To everyone saying that nintendo should get rare back, there's something I want to remind you: Microsoft bought rare because nintendo just said: "I'll pass" and that was because nintendo became aware that the rare all people used to love was changing into the lame rare we know today, that's why nintendo didn't continue the relationship they had; and even if lame rare wanted to return I would not want that to happen because nintendo already has retro, so no time for lame rare.

BakaKnight

#34

BakaKnight said:

Rare... the revolutionary team of the old days...

I really wonder if it's possible to have back a spiritual successor of that amazing dev team and its games...

Reading the aritcle and some of the comments above it seems we can still hope and dream :)

(On a side note, sad story the one of Nuts and Bolts, that's really not the kind of way you expect a team to work...
I don't know the game well, so I'll avoid to judge it, but, when I saw a video of the begin, it was surely horrible how it make intentionally fun of the platform genre that made Banjo famous... noone, even games, should make fun of their origins :( )

DePapier

#37

DePapier said:

I wish he could but that's not a composer decision. :/ I'm still listening to GoldenEye 64's and Perfect Dark's songs he made. :)

Dpishere

#41

Dpishere said:

Had many good times playing Banjo Kazooie with my brother as a kid. The music and gameplay in the series is top notch, and though Nuts and Bolts was not what the fans wanted I loved it all the same.

misswliu81

#42

misswliu81 said:

nintendo should buy up rare's franchises instead of rare. just banjo, killer instinct, perfect dark. microsoft might have bought the rights to killer instinct, but so far, what are they doing with that I.P? nothing so to speak of.

Dpullam

#43

Dpullam said:

I would really like to see Banjo Threeie get developed on a Nintendo platform but at this point I don't think we will be seeing another game in this series for quite a while. I actually enjoyed Banjo Kazooie Nuts & Bolts quite a bit regardless of how well it was received. Perhaps someday we will see another entry into the platforming aspect of this series.

hydeks

#44

hydeks said:

Nut's and Bolts was a horrible joke, Rare has become a horrible joke thanks to Microsoft, and every game since Rare left Nintendo has made them into a terrible punch-line -_- Please, PLEASE, let there be a miracle and make Rare go back to Nintendo, Microsoft has made Rare into a very sad company that no one cares about anymore. Bring back the Rare that made such awesome games like Battletoads, DKC, Jet Force Gemini, Star Fox Adventures, Banjo Kazooie, and Conker!

Highwinter

#45

Highwinter said:

Since when was Nuts & Bolts badly received? It had very positive reviews and still has a very large fanbase. Hardcore Nintendo/Banjo fans complained that it didn't feel enough like the originals, but that's one of the biggest hypocrisy's in gaming. People complain about games like CoD and Assassins Creed being the same every year and then when a developer releases a genuinely original and very good game, people complained that it was too different.

Rare also made Kameo and Viva Pinata under Microsoft, which were equally amazing games that just sold badly. Why would Microsoft want Rare to keep making games that sell badly? This is why Nintendo sold them and why Microsoft put them to work on things like Kinect Sports titles.

Microsoft didn't kill Rare, the fans did.

Bobhobob

#46

Bobhobob said:

I would like to see Banjo Threeie, mainly because I never got to experience the first 2 games. IMO, Nuts and Bolts was alright, but it wasn't very good. Overall it was pretty meh.
Also GAME GRUMPS WOOOOOO!

Sun

#49

Sun said:

Banjo Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie are the best 3D platforms ever made. But N64 was not technically ready for them and modern remakes would be really appreciated by everyone. Since Microsoft bought and destroyed Rare there's little hope for the IP to come back to a Nintendo console but every ex Rare employee should get together and make Banjo 3 or something as similar as possible. Nuts & Bolts is not even a Banjo game and the current Rare is like a brand new company if you check its staff.

MarkyVigoroth

#50

MarkyVigoroth said:

First someone at Rare wonders why Nintendoo does not simply ask Rare for permission to release Donkey Kong 64. Now Someone (else?) at Rare want to make a true and honest sequel to Banjo Tooie!

I think Rare just wants to be with Nintentoo again... and should be.

mookysam

#51

mookysam said:

Nuts n Bolts wasn't a bad game at all. The biggest problem I had was with the floaty physics, which made some of the missions quite frustrating. The original Banjo-Kazooie is still one of my favourite games but I am happy to replay that and Tooie rather than desire a new entry.

Einherjar

#52

Einherjar said:

Its your turn Nintendo, hire those guys. They cant be named "Rare" and "Epic" is out of the question too...why not "Unique" :D
But serious, get these guys back under Nintendos wings. Thats what the system needs right now. And a REAL Banjo 3 would be a definite system seller.

Jukilum

#53

Jukilum said:

@Highwinter Did Viva Piñata sell poorly? That seems strange considering that it got a spin off party game, a sequel, a TV show and even a DS version.

YChung

#54

YChung said:

Rare was my favourite developer on the N64. Goldeneye, Banjo Kazooie, and Rare's take on mario kart, forget the name, were my first games on the system and all were 1st rate. Jet Force Gemini wad arguably my fave game on the N64. Gutted when they were sold. Rare needs to go back to nintendo. New Killer Instinct would be awesome.

YChung

#55

YChung said:

Rare pretty much single handedly kept the N64 going. I quite liked star fox adventures too.

softserve

#56

softserve said:

Nuts and Bolts is an excellent game that still contains a decent amount of platforming. It's a shame so many people have made such negative assumptions about it.

Melkaticox

#58

Melkaticox said:

@Unoquazin Why should he? It DIDN'T go down too well with fans. That's not a lie.

Also...
"Here at Nintendo, whire watching Game Grumps, we rearized..."

Banjogeek

#59

Banjogeek said:

@Melkaticox That would so stupid at E3 they suddenly make a mind blowing annoucement that they bought out all of Rare's old I.P's.Just to say that.

Araknie

#60

Araknie said:

It's true, Microsoft's not capable of making Rare work like Nintendo did.

Urbanhispanic

#61

Urbanhispanic said:

You know...I never got into the Banjo-Kazooie games but from what I've heard and read over the years, it sounds like I missed out. It is always possible to port the older titles to the 3DS as they had already did so with Diddy Kong Racing for the DS....never say never :P

Henmii

#63

Henmii said:

There was the rumor that the Stamper brothers where forming a new Rareware at Twycross, but it got silent ever since!

But that story about Conker is strange: Was Banjo Kazooie REALLY inspired by the Conker prototype?! I always thought it was the other way around!!

jigsawelder

#66

jigsawelder said:

i think that nut n' bolt is more like a Crash Bandicoot Team Racing. An "alternate" game in a series. I really hope Banjo Threeie will be make in the future!

maybe we should make a petition saying " I will buy banjo threeie if you make it the right way" and got a lotttttttttt of signature and send it to microsoft!

braindust666

#67

braindust666 said:

I think the original staff of rare and grant kirkhope should just get together and put what money they have into making their own "rareware" video game system and keeping the old school n64 or gamecube graphics

ryannock

#68

ryannock said:

@Highwinter No one ever complained about Banjo Tooie being too similar to Banjo Kazooie. No one asked for a change from the original formula to make Banjo Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts.

crislikestar

#69

crislikestar said:

I'm waiting for the new game of Banjo-Kazooie since I was a child. Personally, this game was and is very important for me, until the point that my dog's name is Banjo! I played this game with my mum so many times, while I ate bread with chocolat in my old house... I really love this game. Objectively, I think Banjo-Kazooie is a very funny and original game. Full of imagination. It includes carismatic characters, fun game play, great tunes and absurd humor for all the family. It's my prototype of perfect and classical platform game, so I had a huge deception when I played Nuts & Bolts. I hope we can play soon a new platform game of Banjo-Kazooie, preserving the original essence of the first games but with good graphics and all that stuff that everybody is looking for in a current videogame. If the new game would be a sandbox game, in my opinion it could be a good renovation for the saga, who knows! I'm impatiently waiting. Maybe one day I could work in creating the new game of Banjo-Kazooie, but I don't think so xD... although dreaming is free, right?

MetalVocalist

#70

MetalVocalist said:

A serious message to the higher-ups: I understand the odds of ex-Rare staff re-uniting to focus effort into a new and much needed Banjo game is highly unlikely and against the majority of our gamer hopes. With no exaggeration, this is one the most disappointing facts that haunts me. I am a HUGE and extreme Rare/Banjo-Kazooie fan (especially Banjo-Tooie. That game was just a flawless expansion to the series in every way), and I play the games often and never lose interest in the fun they provide. I was disappointed with the release of Nuts & Bolts, and I understand that many other fans of the series were as well. Just recently I watched the Guest Grumps episode featuring Grant Kirkhope and admired the commentary. It was very interesting to hear such insight coming from him on the game, even in the funnier portions of the episode. I completely agree with him on the idea of making a Banjo-Kazooie 3. I've seen many posts of people wanting to start a fan-movement in order to spur ex-Rare staff into developing a new title in the series. I share the same desires. I truly hope for some miracle to occur where Rare can come back, at least to accomplish one last Banjo game the us fans are craving so much (with the platforming roots returning, obviously). I've read a couple articles about a "spiritual successor" being talked about... The articles disappointed me. I'm like, "are you kidding? Why not just give us the Banjo game?" Anyway, just had to vent it all out. I hope and pray and wish and dream of the day an announcement comes along stating that the ex-Rare staff have come together to bring us this Banjo title that we're all gluing our hearts to.

theblackdragonAdmin

#72

theblackdragon said:

@Fusion14: I thought you were going to be chill? Please don't make me edit out any more insults from your comments, you probably won't like the outcome :/

2steve

#74

2steve said:

@Mk_II they may be all gone, but as they said, maybe some of their remaining staff can build a new studios that would then greatly interest Nintendo. We may never get Banjo on Wii U but we can get the spiritual (true) successor of Banjo a-la Mighty No. 9 to Megaman

pstygle

#75

pstygle said:

Banjo threeie would be amazing! Sad it would have to be on Xbox but still though, I would pre order it straight away! Love the first 2. Dissapointed with nuts and bolts! Also I might add, if rare got onboard and brought out banjo kazzoie HD collection that would be amazing too!!

LokiDracon

#77

LokiDracon said:

Actually there is hope guys Xbox fans are signing a petition to Ms about reinstating the restrictions of the Xbox One when it was first revealed at E3 when they had that major consumer backlash their preorders fell from millions to under 1000 if this petition passes then it could mean the end of Ms gaming branch since Xbox fans will either go to Sony or Nintendo

Brittanykins24

#79

Brittanykins24 said:

Hello.

I've been a Banjo fan for many many years, not even a fan just plain OBSESSED. Now when I heard Banjo Kazooie Nut&Bolts was going to come out on the Xbox I was skeptical as probably most were. The fact that Microsoft was now in control of how my favorite game was going to be construed scared me a bit but I had faith in Rare to stand up for my beloved game. Well luckily my boyfriend owed an Xbox so when the game came out I could try it myself to see if it was at least a game I could kind of enjoy. Well I was wrong. Banjo Kazooie Nuts&Bolts was terrible, TERRIBLE. It didn't even feel as though I was playing a Banjo Kazooie game, I was heartbroken. I still have hopes that one day Nintendo will have ownership of Rare again and a REAL Banjo Kazooie game will come back to us. :)

Leave A Comment

Hold on there, you need to login to post a comment...