News Article

Round Table: Let's Talk About Super Mario

Posted by Thomas Whitehead

Get a comfortable seat

We've already unveiled our favourite Super Mario games, but it's a series with plenty of talking points. We're in the middle of the busiest spell of new Super Mario games in the history of the franchise, with two 'New Super Mario Bros.' titles arriving this year, which will mean that three new entries will have arrived within a 12 month period — counting Super Mario 3D Land from Holiday 2011. It's also a series with a truly impressive history, with some titles that have defined the platforming genre, in 2D and 3D, and delighted multiple generations of gamers.

Some of the Nintendo Life staff decided to get together and chew the fat on everything Super Mario. Joining features editor Thomas Whitehead are community administrator Desiree Turner, U.S. reviewers Christopher Ingram and Joe Walker, and contributer Gaz Plant. There was a lot to talk about, so grab a snack and find a comfortable chair.

Thomas Whitehead: First thing, please introduce yourselves to the readers.

Christopher Ingram: What's up guys? I'm Chris and I'm one of the US reviewers here at Nintendo Life and over at our sister site, Push Square.

Joe: I'm Joe and I'm the same things as Chris just said!

Desiree: I'm Des, also known as 'theblackdragon'. Most of you already know me, and if you don't, it's probably because you've been paying attention to our Community Rules.

Gaz: Hi everyone, I'm Gaz, contributor here at Nintendo Life and the guy whose first article said Nintendo make too many Mario games.

Tom: Thanks guys. To get started, what was your first experience of a Super Mario game?

Joe: My first experience was the original Super Mario Bros for NES. It was 1988, I was four and my neighbour had just gotten an NES. I can still remember the thrill of actually controlling something on the television. That Christmas my parents got me my own NES and the rest is history.

Desiree: It was Super Mario Bros. for me. We got our NES for Christmas the year they came out with that big Zapper set, and it was love at first playthrough; though we were so young we sometimes had to ask mom and dad to beat the game for us! (Laughs)

Christopher: It was my fourth birthday, and while I don't have many memories of those younger years, I fondly remember unwrapping my NES on that fateful day. While I was so excited to play it as it was being hooked up to the television, minutes later I was screaming and crying because I couldn't beat the pyramid jump at the end of 1-1.

Gaz: Much like everyone else here, my first Mario game was Super Mario Bros on NES. My parents bought a NES when I was 2, and along with Duck Hunt came my first Mario experience. Many hours of my early life were spent on that console thanks to a plumber and a dog that kept mocking me...

Tom: This may discredit me on here forever, but my first encounter was Super Mario 64. Game systems were pricey in the UK back in the late 1980s to early 1990s, compared to today, and my parents bought us a SEGA Mega Drive (Genesis) as our first dedicated console: we had a ZX Spectrum before that, the UK equivalent of a Commodore 64. My brother bought a Nintendo 64 years later, and Mario 64 blew my mind.

Christopher: That means you started out with the best, Thomas!

Tom: It was a good start, yes!

Desiree: Mario 64 was pretty revolutionary for its time, there's no shame starting there at all.
Not unless you're talking Super Mario 64 DS... (Laughs)

Joe: Super Mario 64 is the first game to ever make me forget to eat.

Tom: For those that did play Super Mario Bros. back in the day, did you sense that it was potentially something special, or was it just another NES game?

Gaz: To be honest, I don't actually remember that much of playing Super Mario Bros on the NES as a child (my memories are almost exclusively Duck Hunt related). We got rid of the NES and upgraded to a SNES soon after, so much of my early Mario experience was in fact on the SNES.

Christopher: Definitely! Even as a youngster, I grew up playing Atari with my family and the transition to sidescrolling 2D was fantastic. I still remember my family's excitement when they played it for the first time.

Desiree: Before we got our NES, we had an Atari 5200, and the only games we had for it were things like Pac-Man, Breakout, Galaga... I'd never played a platformer in my life. It was awesome! Running around stomping goombas and koopas, exploring all the hidden places and even after you'd played the game sixty-bazillion times over, coming up with challenges and fun things to try and do.

Joe: For me, I was very young so there was no distinction between "Mario" and "video games”. They were one in the same for a long time, I wasn't really thinking about its effect on entertainment or anything. I just loved how my family would gather around the TV, passing the controller around, and have a great time.

Christopher: I'm with Gaz though, the real appeal for me was Duck Hunt as a young child. Funny thing is Nintendo still appeals to the younger generation with innovative peripherals nearly three decades later.

Gaz: What with you all talking about Atari systems, I suddenly feel very young...

Desiree: Duck Hunt didn't really interest me back then (laughs). Once you figure out you can get close to the TV and point and shoot, that kind of took the fun out of it — especially when your siblings were too young to play fair and stay back anyway.

Joe: Who didn't sit right on top of the TV when playing Duck Hunt back then?

Desiree: People who wanted to play fair.

Joe: Well, I was four!

Christopher: (Laughs) I only got to get in front of the TV when my family wasn't around. It was serious gaming when it came to Duck Hunt!

Tom: Back to Mario! The next two games on NES were strange, if you weren't in Japan. Super Mario Bros. 2 US is an oddity because it's a reskinned alternative, but Super Mario Bros. 3 took the foundations of the debut and went to amazing lengths, in retrospect. How do you rate SMB3 today, and do you think it would have amazed players back then?

I’m skipping SMB2, as I’m not sure it would have amazed anyone in the same way!

Gaz: It had vegetables as weapons, that amazed everyone.

Desiree: Hell yeah!

Joe: It (SMB3) is absolutely one of the finest video games ever made. The fact that it's still so highly regarded, and universally loved, is a testament to how perfect it is. I played it so much after school my parents actually no longer allowed me to play video games on school days. I still get it out and play it regularly. It's really what kicked off my lifelong passion for video games.

Super Mario Bros. 3 is kind of like high school; we were all in different places when we experienced it, and yet we can all share stories that everyone can relate to.

It (SMB3) is absolutely one of the finest video games ever made. The fact that it's still so highly regarded, and universally loved, is a testament to how perfect it is.

Gaz: So I first played Mario 3 on the SNES in All-Stars, much like everything post-SMB, and it was by far my favourite of the lot (Super Mario World wasn't on that cartridge). There's something immensely satisfying about the game, and the whole stage feel of it just adds to its fun. That and Raccoon Mario is perhaps Nintendo's finest creation ever. Oh and it spawned the Super Mario Bros 3 cartoon - if you haven't seen it, go watch it now. Go on, we'll wait.

Christopher: I absolutely adore SMB2's weirdness, but SMB3 still holds up wonderfully today, which is a testament to how great the title was back then. I was a teenager when I finally got my hands on SMB3, and I remember that it seemed every time I turned around, I'd find out something else cool that I could do in the game. Maybe it was another hidden P-Wing, or realizing that I could swim under the boats in World 8 with the Frog Suit — SMB3 was a game that continually kept on giving.

Desiree: Super Mario Bros. 3 is my favourite of the entire main Mario series. After Mario 2 did its thing, SMB3 took the series back to its goomba-stomping roots with a vengeance, and still it managed to shake things up with the different worlds and the awesome power-ups. You can play it almost any way you like, too, if you pick up the whistles — do you want to skip the entire game and just get to Bowser's Castle, or do you want to take the long road and enjoy the trip? Need to stop off to pick up a Tanooki Suit or a Hammer suit? Or perhaps you'd like to just pick one of your favourite worlds to trash and then head off to kick Bowser's butt? I do think it amazed players back then, and Chris is right, it's the game that keeps on giving even now.

Tom: Maybe it's because of the annoying 50Hz frame rate that’s the curse of retro PAL games, but I still can't beat SMB3: I’m also a bit old-fashioned in that I want to beat it without using the whistles. I've beaten some tough games in my time, but it's still got the beating of me. I love it though, the level design is amazing.

Gaz: Way back when I was younger, I always got stuck in World 2 on the level where the sun drops down to attack you. It took me many years to get past that and onto World 3...

Joe: That sun is still one of the scariest enemies in all of video gamedom.

Christopher: I'll never forget being dumbfounded and amazed at the same time the first time I saw someone drop through the screen on a white block! How many times had I stood upon that and never knew that I could hold down for a bit and drop right through!

Desiree: I love going out of my way to make the match-two game appear to pick up extra power-ups. The only thing that sucks about it is that you inevitably pick up numerous instances of the slot-game for 1-ups... there was one time I had to play it through like five times straight when I reached World 3 (laughs).

Christopher: (Laughs)

Tom: The final home console 'old-school' platformer was Super Mario World on SNES, assuming we treat SMW2 as a Yoshi game with Mario branding. What did you think of its own way of moving the series on with power-ups, so many secrets etc? Seeing as he loves it so much, maybe Gaz should kick us off here.

Gaz: First up, I think we should introduce it as the Greatest (Mario) Game of All Time! Now that's sorted, for me, this was the game that made me a gamer. Super Mario World was my defining moment in gaming — it was exciting, it was fun and it was just so enjoyable to play. The map screen, the interesting and exciting new levels, and perhaps most importantly, Yoshi, just made it the greatest thing I had ever played. And it still holds up perfectly today; if you checked out what I was playing a few weeks ago, you'll know that I finally 100% beat it, discovering new stuff even 20 years on. It's THAT amazing.

Oh and the Cape. The cape is awesome.

NB! For those of you who went and watched the SMB3 cartoon on my advice earlier, go track down Super Mario World. You might thank me (or not).

Joe: I didn't have a SNES (my best friend did so I opted for the Sega Genesis when given the choice on console upgrades) so while I don't have the emotional attachment to it that I do Super Mario Bros 3, I still played a hell of a lot of it at his house.

I think in a lot of ways it improved on Super Mario Bros 3; it was just so much BIGGER. More levels (which had crazy verticality to them), more secrets, more enemies, more moves... there's a LOT of game in there! I personally like it more that Super Mario Bros 3 now for those reasons, as unpopular an opinion as it may be.

I think it's really the size that made it so wonderful, something that I think is sadly lacking in the newer 2D Mario games.

And like Gaz, the Cape and Yoshi really put it over the top for me!

Desiree: I think SMW handled the transition perfectly, and it's an amazing game in its own right. Hiding multiple exits in plain sight, giving us the Cape Feather and the 3-up bonus, and then not only Star Road with its multi-coloured Yoshi kids and their differing powers but also the 'Special' world to get through... I remember the first time I made it through all of those levels. Tubular was hell! And even then they still had hidden things for us to find, like when you leave it on the 'Special' world screen for too long and the music changes. They changed up the level formats quite a bit with SMW — the one that stays with me even now is that level on Choco Island where the level itself changes depending on how quickly you're running through it, and how many coins you've collected. As innovative as SMB3 was, SMW changed it up just as much. The only reason it's not numero uno on my personal list is because there's no Hammer Suit. (Laughs)

Gaz: I got stuck for a few days on Tubular a few weeks back... Maddening

Desiree: It's easy once you've gotten past it a few times.

Joe: The level names in the Special world are a wonderful reminder of innocent times long gone...

Christopher: I remember going to a buddies house and playing Super Mario World every day for months. The game is so big, with so many secrets to discover that it launched the SNES off, not with a bang, but with a massive KABOOM! It's a close to 2D perfection as it comes in my opinion.

Desiree: I don't think I could've limited myself to only playing it at a friend's house!

Christopher: But I was a SEGA fanboy!

Joe: We had Sonic to hold us over!

Gaz: If I'd have just played it at a friend's house I would have had to have moved out...

Desiree: To label yourselves is to limit yourselves…

Tom: Sorry to be a contrarian, but I only really like this one. I don't mind secrets, but I like a relatively straight-forward experience in my Mario 2D platformers. Run, jump and hit a flag, and SMB3 kept enough of that with a few little secrets and tricks. SMW is excellent, but I don't love it as much you guys.



Christopher: I'll bring the rum!

Gaz: If you'd like to apply for the suddenly vacant Features Editor position, please send a stamped address envelope to "I like Super Mario World unlike former Editor Thomas Whitehead, Nintendo Life"

Tom: Pah, it’s only my 6th favourite SM game.

Desiree: (Laughs)

Christopher: (Laughs)

On page two we talk about Mario's first ever 3D adventure, the return to 2D and his stereoscopic 3D debut.

From the web

User Comments (42)



MetalMario said:

Super Mario Bros. 3 is probably my second favorite Mario game. It is always a blast to play.



JohnPhilipSousa said:

It's a shame I missed that time. I would have loved playing SEGA Master System. (trollface)Seriously though, it sucks being a retro game fan as a kid. Other kids think you're weird, adults think you're not retro enough even though I honestly feel nostalgia for old games that I've never played. Now that I put it that way it does sound weird. (laughs) Also, I am sad to admit my first video game I've ever owned was some GameCube SpongeBob game. First I saw was a friend playing Leaf Green though, so I might be redeemed. (laughs)



WingedSnagret said:

Tom: "Perhaps the problem is Mario's success. Nintendo's under pressure to return to profit, and Mario is guaranteed sales. Other franchises simply don't have that power."

I think that is one of the biggest reasons why Nintendo keeps pumping out Mario title after Mario title as of late. Mario prints money, and other series don't make enough to warrant more frequent installments, which is too bad.



Knuckles said:

Well I grew up on Sonic 3 & Knuckles, so Super Mario doesn't have the same charm that classic sonic platformers do for me.



grumblebuzzz said:

I find these round tables hard to read because of the changing narration and not really knowing who is who. I think it would be a good idea to maybe record these as videos and post them in that way.



JohnPhilipSousa said:

I feel like I grew up on these games, but I didn't. Quite strange. I think this should've been Let's Talk About Sonic though. This is SErvice GAmes Life after all! (trollface)



Xilef said:

I actually think NSMBU will be a much more innovative game. I don't know why, since we don't know to much about it, but it just feels that way...



Bass_X0 said:


I call them Bloopers as they were called in the instruction manual.



Cia said:

I think they should do something more innovative with Mario. It's just a mascot now, a soulless symbol of the corporation. I want the old, more humane Mario back, with modern technology of course.



Bass_X0 said:

Isn't modern technology what makes Mario soulless?

Give New Super Mario Bros. 2 the graphics of NES Mario and people will be going crazy for it.



Kyloctopus said:

TBD really doesn't anticipate NSMB2 because it reminds her of Wario while I find the Kirby's Dream Land series alot like Mario.



baba_944 said:

Is it "Are" suppose to be "our"? And I never played a Gamecube or DS game back then, but I seen dozens of commercials for them and talking about New Super Mario Bros. and Super Mario Sunshine, Paper Mario the Thousand Year Door which is fun



sinalefa said:


I guess having this as text helps a lot during editing. Similar to Iwata Asks. A friend of mine used to do some of these via AIM and the final thing looked completely different to the one live.

Anyway, the impossible request of "let's have yearly Marios and make them all awesome" proves its absurdity here. The New Marios have never been really amazing (the Galaxy games had that distinction on Wii) so I am not expecting anything groundbreaking, yet I would love to have a 3D Mario with many great ideas later in the Wii U's life. As long as it does not involve FLUDD, please



scrubbyscum999 said:

You guys make me feel young. My first games were Pac Man GBC and Super Mario Advance 2: Super Mario World with my purple GBA. Pokemon Emerald is what made me a gamer though.



Kyloctopus said:

I decided to pop in my Super Mario All Stars disk, and I forgot how much fun SMB2 is. It's a good breath of fresh air.



Gretski said:

I grew up with a GameCube which will always remain my favorite system. I remember spending hours and hours with Kirby Air Ride and Luigi's Mansion.



Doge said:

i also grew up with gamecube, and to this day i sdtill have kirby airide and sunshine oh, and cubivore who ever knows what that is say so!



Mario500 said:

Desiree: "Back when NSMB hit I remember arguing for a proper New Super Mario Bros. 2 — not so much what we're about to be given, but something like NSMB2 (US), with vegetable throwing, shell riding, POW-block throwing, enemy-tossing goodness"

I believe "NSMB2 (US)" is a typographical error for SMB2 (US).



FluttershyGuy said:

Great article, folks! Love reading your NintendoLifers of the Round Table discussions!

My first experience with the Brozzz was actually the original Mario Bros., where you knock over enemies from below and kick them away! I got it just before Christmas, 1987. When I got the NES a couple of months earlier, it was a Zapper/R.O.B. set, which came with Duck Hunt & Gyromite. I didn't actually play Super Mario Bros. until a moved a few months later to a small town that had a place which rented movies AND games. I'd not seen a place yet that rented games. So, it wasn't until like April or May 1988 that I played SMB! Turned out to be a good thing, as it wasn't much longer that I had to wait for SMB 2, which came out in early November of '88 (right before Zelda II).

Speaking of SMB 2, I'd also love to see a return to its gameplay. I can see it as a story where Bowser magically brings Wart & Co. out of Subcon and into the Mushroom Kingdom, for the sake of joining forces to battle Mario & Luigi! I'd have Wart as a mysterious figure that you're surprised by late in the game! Another want: To leave the Mushroom Kingdom for a Mario side-scroller again (and maybe it happens in NSMB U). I think that's one thing making the NSMB series stale. Getting old starting out at Peach's castle, the first world (and subsequent) looking so familiar. Return to Subcon, Dinosaur Land, or some new mysterious place that piques our interest again! Still hoping for New Super Mario World (if NSMB U isn't it in spirit) one day.



gundam00 said:

Simmer down y'all!! You'll get your 3D Mario Wii U in time! All this retrospect talk about past Mario games and Consoles, you guys skipped over a very big elephant! Nintendo stopped releasing brand-spankin-new Mario alongside Console releases with the GameCube. The last time Nintendo released a new Console with a ground-breaking Mario game was with the N64. GameCube was released alongside Luigi's Mansion. Wii was released with Wii Sports. The reason the 3DS tanked when it was released was because of the high price, but also because there was NO Mario game with the release! 3DS sales skyrocketed after Mario 3DLand was released. Nintendo recognized that Mario MUST be released with new hardware.

So we have the 3DS XL release alongside NSMB:2 and we have Wii U released alongside NSMB:U. Nintendo scrambled to put a team together for NSMB:2 in time for the XL release because the NSMB team was working on the Wii U game, which proves that Nintendo recognized: new hardware == new Mario

Now! The Wii was hugely successful with families. NSMB:Wii was hugely successful with families. Nintendo is MARKETING Wii U towards families!! So of course Nintendo is going to release the Wii U with a Mario title that is family-oriented. You guys even said what made NSMB:Wii so much fun, despite being a redundant game, was playing with your spouses!!!!!!

As we have seen with Mario Sunshine and Mario Galaxy, a 3D ground-breaking Mario will be released within the first year of the Wii U launch. 3D Mario is no longer Console-launch material. Multiplayer 2D Mario replaced that. And as we have seen with every 3D Mario, Nintendo changes the rules for what 3D should be and is capable of. But 3D still turns off a lot of players.

The reason Zelda feels so epic is because Nintendo hasn't cross-genred the Zelda brand with spin-offs. There's a reason why there is no Zelda Tennis or Zelda Party 9, or even Zelda Kart Racing. Mario is a FAMILY brand. That's why Mario is able to play tennis, play soccer, play board games, play kart racing, etc. Mario is the Mickey Mouse of Nintendo; a brand that is able to take on as many roles as possible without the side-effect of harming the brand.

Also, you guys say that all these Mario releases will tarnish the brand and turn people off. However, Nintendo has been doing this with Mario since the NES and Gameboy. There's been Dr. Mario, Mario Pinball, Mario Picross, Mario Party, Mario Fortune Street, Paper Mario, etc., with my personal favorite spin-offs being "Mario Is Missing!" and "Super Mario RPG" (EPIC!!!!).

So sit back and enjoy NSMB:U with your family as the game was intended!! And 3D Mario Wii U in HD will be released later next year and be so epic there will be a baby boom among gamers!

Nintendo KNOWS what they're doing! WE ARE NOT WORTHY!!!!!



WiiLovePeace said:

It was an interesting read until the last page where you guys went way too far in bashing the latest Mario games, it was nice to read different opinions about the various games in the series but then it dragged on & on in the last page.

As for me I enjoy all the Mario titles, I guess I'm just an easy to please gamer. I just look for fun in the games I play I don't really overly criticise things like controls or the camera, I play the games & if it all adds up to being fun then I'm a happy gamer I also don't too often compare games to other games, in the same series or otherwise. I like to look at the game I'm playing, the experiences it brings & not get so caught up trying to compare this game experience to another game experience, it just doesn't make sense to me to do that.



Bass_X0 said:

Would it be right to deny gamers the chance to play 3DS until Super Mario 3D Land was ready to be released in December?



triforcepower73 said:

@WingedFish This will probably come off as crazy but I think nintendo should stop making mario games for just a few years and focus solely on being known for their less popular franchises like f-zero, kid icarus, kirby, metroid, pikmin, and even zelda(I did that in alphabetical order). Their other series are just as good, if not, better than mario and a lot of people don't know it. It would be cool if nintendo were someday known for their epic franchises like zelda and metroid and kid icarus just as much as they are for their fun as heck franchises like mario and kirby. Don't get mad at me, it's just a thought.



ThomasBW84 said:

I fixed the typo where TBD was talking about hopes for a title in the same vein as Super Mario Bros. 2 (US), I'd missed that.

@WiiLovePeace - That last page was really a debate about where the series is, and though there was some criticism of some of the later games, there was some talk defending the current titles - differing opinions and all that. It's a weird time in the Super Mario series, just because of the volume of games, so it's a debate with multiple sides. Some of us want Mario to be less frequent and more innovative, and some of us think those days are gone but that the games are still excellent. If anyone came across as 'bashing' the newer games, it's probably because they care about the series so much



bezerker99 said:

My first Mario experience was Mario Bros and Donkey Kong in the arcade.

And then it was Vs. Super Mario Bros. in the arcade.

And then I got a Nintendo Entertainment System for my birthday in 1986 and I had Super Mario at home! Sooooo awesome! Still one of my fav games ever.



Emaan said:

My first Mario game, was my first game ever. Yeah I'm young, that game was Super Mario Advance 4: Super Mario Bros. 3 on the GBA. What a way to start off my journey as a gamer, that was the game that made me fall in love with video games. Time has passed, and Mario has changed. Super Mario Galaxy is still my favorite game, a shining example of how great a new Mario game can be, even better than the retro classics. Now however, I fear that the New Super Mario Bros. games are thinning out what used to be an innovative series. Super Mario is still my favorite series, but I'm watching and waiting to see how Nintendo will keep the series fresh, and most importantly fun.



SuperMinusWorld said:

My thoughts on Mario, past, present, and the frightening future: The series' gilded history is one not too many other franchises can achieve, but these """"New"""" games are seriously ruining the Mario series' image to many fans. Destructoid said it best: 'The New Super Mario games should be seen just as spin-offs, and nothing more.'

In my eyes, the only true Mario games now are the 3D titles which continually innovate and change up the way they're played (with the exception of Galaxy 2). It's not too harsh to ask for innovation if 4 games in the series are already almost exactly the same (NSMB, NSMBWii, NSMB2, and now the bland and uninspired NSMBU). I've been a longtime fan of the Mario franchise and my excitement for each game increases gradually. However, NSMBWii and now NSMB2 are the first Mario titles ever to make me think twice about them. I'm considering buying 2, but U is not a system seller and I will gladly play it at a friend's while waiting for a proper Mario game to come to the Wii U.

If Nintendo doesn't wake up and see how they're damaging this series (my and many others' all-time favorite game series ever), then we may never get an inventive, fun, and truly "New" game from the 2D Mario's again.



Super-Mario-Fan said:

Mario games are great. I never complained about any of the Mario games.Their all so great. Super Mario Sunshine will still be my favorite Mario game of all time.



stealth said:

Some of the statements made by the writers are ridiculous

1) Nothing has made it more clear, there will be 1 2d mario per system per gen

thats it. Its not going to happen every year

2) Mario U is a total system seller. Its stunning, original, I havent seen any 2d mario like it. Its made by the main team and everything

Dont even compare the 3ds 2d game to it, as it was made by a team who never made mario before

A 2d mario IS THE PERFECT launch game. Everyone will buy it

Mario games sell MORE than they ever have

they are more of an event. A very very special event



stealth said:

alot of them come off like 3d mario elitists

new super mario is FAR MORE POPULAR, than ANY other mario title in history

can you blame them? the games are amazing



Moonhillwat said:

I'm personally apalled at all the hate Mario has been getting recently. It just does not compute. Unless I pin it on it being a new fad, that Mario-hating is now the cool thing to do.

I, for one, HATE having to wait years and years for a new main Mario title, because when I beat them I thirst for more. No fuggin' way that I'd be content with having to wait for a brand new console to come out. With the Wii, my dream came true. THREE main Mario titles to keep me busy. Now that was more like it.

And now, I still demand more Mario. 3D Land rocked my world and New Super Mario Bros. 2 is my most highly anticipated game of the year. I've been wanting a handheld sequel to my most favorite DS title for years now. They shouldn't have waited this long if you ask me.

As for New Super Mario Bros. U, it looks amazing to me, but I'm not anticipating it merely because I won't be able to afford a Wii U any time in the foreseeable future, especially if I still can't find a job in this bad economy and horrible town (12% unemployment rate) I'm stuck in.

But I digress.

All this Mario makes me very very happy. It's a dream come true for me. So seeing all these people complain over the past several months has been a STRONG kick to my balls. To the point where I feel like distancing myself from the gaming community since it seems more and more like I'm alone in the universe with my opinion.

As for "stagnant"? Puh-leeze. I don't care what you guys say, each NSMB game may look alike (BUT IT'S A FUGGIN' SERIES. WHAT THE HELL DO YOU EXPECT?), but each one has variety and are unique enough to be their own games.

As for NSMB2 and U being released so closed to each other, I submit the question: so what? One is a handheld game, while the other is a home console game. Problem?

Now, I could understand if they were on the same console. But they're not, so I don't see their release dates as a legitimate argument. The article was mostly about nostalgia, and I was apalled that you guys were saying that we should all be forced to wait 3-4 years per Mario title merely because of your anticipation and hype train nostalgia. It came off as elitist. I personally love nostalgia, but this is one of those times where someone can rightly say that you need to take the rose-shades off for a moment, long enough to wake up and smell the coffee. There is no legitimate reason to wait so long for an outstanding Mario title. Unless you bring up the innovative ones that come out once a generation, then you're just being selfish and stinking things up for those who would love to have several Mario games per console instead of waiting forever until the next console. 2D Mario games are obviously easier to make than the 3D ones, and thus can be churned out faster. I don't see any problem with that. Am I disappointed that the Wii U won't have a console-bending Mario 3D title at launch? You bet I am! However, I'm not going to take it out on New Super Mario Bros. U, which will be an outstanding game in its own right.

I personally want a Super Mario Galaxy 3, but that's a topic for another day.

Anyways, I was disappointed with this round table. If it were to have a subtitle, I'd submit: "When nostalgia can be a bad thing."



Moonhillwat said:

@stealth New Super Mario Bros. 2 was mainly a new team, but so what? The torch needs to be passed some time in the future.

And anyways, they all took part in a "Mario Cram School".



Tokool2007 said:

I'm gonna have red marks on my head where I face palmed many times during the comments...



SuperMinusWorld said:

@stealth The New series is uninspired, bland crap. Where the original sidescrollers continued to change their graphics, music, gameplay, and locations, the New series follows a strict code in how the games look, play, sound, and where they take place. They never strive for better. They just play it safe because they know they'll get big sales. The gameplay is, as is expected of Mario games, tight and feels good; but that doesn't make up for the fact that we're literally buying almost the same exact game with a few tweaks here and there. When did you leave Destructoid, by the way?

@Blizzaga It may be a series, but that doesn't mean the games have to all have the same graphics, music, and gameplay. Super Mario Bros. 1-4 (aka World), they're part of the series, and yet they are unique and innovative in every way from each other. I agree all this Mario isn't a bad thing at all; but if each game is going to become progressively dull and the same as the title before it, then it does turn into a problem. The "New" series has indeed become stagnant. List the things that each title did new that makes each game different from one another. Oh NSMB... Made everything old new again? NSMBWii... Did that too, but with multiplayer now, I guess? Woo? NSMB2 has... Lots of coins for no reason? Ok... NSMBU has uh.. Multiplayer again, but this time the backgrounds are prettier and the fifth player can... Make platforms. Ok, this is stupid.
SMB started it all and laid down the ground work of an adventure game, and also what each future Mario game would be like, and introduced the timeless tale of Mario vs Bowser. SMB2 shook it all up with the Subcon adventure; no more stomping enemies and power-ups; this time you were to use terrain and other enemies to fight your enemies, and introduced manu longtime baddies like the Bob-omb. SMB3 went back to its roots, but this time the world is your stage! You can pick up shells, hold items in your bag for later, fight the Koopalings, and travel a variety of lands across the Mushroom World. SMW took you to Dinosaur Land to save the Yoshis from Bowser's clutches, and you'll traverse the huge, interconnected world map as you discover more power-ups, and test your skills with Star World and the Special World.

Why can't it be like that anymore? Granted, we don't know much about NSMBU, so I will definitely give it benefit of the doubt. But Nintendo has got to stop mining for nostalgia and playing it safe. I want them to give me a sense of nostalgia by doing unique and creative things with future games. Give me back that anticipation and excitement that I used to feel for the 2D Mario games by showing me a game that I've never played before, but I really, REALLY want to.



alLabouTandroiD said:

I love the Round Tables and this one even gave me a different perspective on some things. (Especially on how you can like SMB3 more than World.) Thanks guys.

While SMB wasn't the first game i played, it sure was the first sidescroller i'd ever seen. And though i don't really remember special moments while playing it i know that it is one of the very few games i dreamt about a couple of times. (What if Mario jumped over the flagpole, what if he didn't use the pipe out of the underwater levels but got on the surface instead ...) So it must have had quite an impact on me.

When it comes to NSMB2 and NSMBU i hope they're the last "strategy-only" Mario releases for a long time. (The former to push downloadable (retail) games and the latter to make the install base of the Wii U as huge as possible from day one.)
While i wouldn't rule out being interested in another 2D Mario with a mixture of the SMB3 and SMW map mechanics and maybe even some more puzzle elements seen in the Wario Land games i think it would be best if that only came on the successors to the 3DS and the Wii U.
I mean they can give us DLC now, so there's really no need have a full retail game before they don't have a mindblowing idea.
I'm very interested in a new 3D Mario though and wouldn't mind a sequel to SM3DL late in the 3DS's lifespan.

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