News Article

Talking Point: Another Look at the News - 6th July

Posted by Nintendo Life Staff

Telling it like it is

A couple of weeks ago we published the first of this new series, where members of the team share their personal views on news stories of the week. Last time around James, Tom and Mike wrote about the only story in town, 3DS XL. Now we start the real business of team members sounding off about different articles, giving their own take on events and no doubt prompting some to disagree. The editorial shackles are removed, so each can tell it as they see it.

This week, community moderator and dragon Desiree 'TBD' Turner tackles Nintendo's online future, retro expert Marcel 'Drake' van Duyn addresses accusations of Wii lacking new IPs, and Pokémaniac Joe 'SpaceKappa' Walker contemplates the future of another of his favourites, the Super Smash Bros. series.

Desiree Turner

Another view on — Satoru Iwata: 'Deep' Online Services May Have a Cost

We all know Nintendo's in full-blown catch-up mode right now, both with Wii U and the Nintendo Network. Both Sony and Microsoft already offer subscription programmes to their users, so I suppose we should've seen this coming, the idea that Nintendo might join in; maybe I was the only one who didn't, it really caught me off guard for some reason. The problem is that the other companies both have much more robust online services to offer and they've already proven they can secure the third-party online multiplayer games people want to play. As for Nintendo, it's never been known for providing a solid online experience, and recent news about Wii U third-party support hasn't exactly been thrilling.

To me, Nintendo would be golden if it chose to follow the PlayStation Plus model: focus on exclusive or early access to games and demos, discounts on games (and the occasional 'free' game) and maybe offer some exclusive content or DLC for subscribers as third-party support starts picking up. Granted, we've begun to see discounts on games here and there in the eShop, but the advent of the Nintendo Network is is a huge opportunity to roll out some great sale programs and really get those downloads flowing. The XBLA model, charging for online multiplayer play and simple things like Netflix or Hulu+ access — for which you're already paying a subscription fee, for goodness sake! — is a huge potential turn-off, which Nintendo doesn't need as it's already working hard to sell people on the entire Wii U/Nintendo Network concept in the first place. I don't think it'd be wise to take it as far as the Microsoft model at this time.

Marcel van Duyn

Another view on — Wii Has Featured Fewer New IPs Than Rivals

For some reason, the mainstream media often takes any chance it gets to pick on Nintendo for the silliest reasons. Case in point this time: the old argument that Nintendo has had "fewer new IPs this generation than its rivals." So what? Is that supposed to be a bad thing?

What Nintendo does right compared to other companies is developing good to great games almost non-stop. Take a look at any major Nintendo franchise — Mario, The Legend of Zelda, Donkey Kong — and see how many of the games in that series are genuinely bad. For pretty much every single Nintendo-owned IP you'll end up with, in my view, an almost spotless list, and even the "bad" games are generally not even downright terrible, just "disappointing". So why would you want it to make loads and loads of new IPs when the old ones have proven time and time again they still work fine?

Whenever Nintendo does decide to introduce a new franchise, it seems to be another guaranteed hit — the same cannot always be said of other companies. Pikmin, WarioWare, Rhythm Heaven/Paradise, Brain Age/Training, Nintendogs, the Wii X series (Sports, Play, Fit, etc.) and a few others all debuted in the last 10 years and all of them have had massive success both in sales and, arguably, game quality. Yes, we don't exactly get new stuff by the truckload, but when they're consistently good, who cares? Quality over quantity is what I say!

On top of that, Nintendo's been making a nice push to get other great games to their systems lately. Just to name a few examples, a couple of years ago it acquired Monolith Soft, recently resulting in one of the best RPGs of the generation, Xenoblade Chronicles. it now co-owns the Fatal Frame/Project Zero series, guaranteeing Nintendo exclusivity for it, and it's been trying hard to get third party developers to bring their games to Wii U, already resulting in promising looking titles like ZombiU. Great franchises of their own that constantly stand the test of time, plus more and more support from other companies. What more could you ask for?

Joe Walker

Another view on — Super Smash Bros. Needs A 'Change of Direction'

I wonder if any Nintendo franchise experiences as much scrutiny as Super Smash Bros., which is impressive considering it only has three instalments. Director Masahiro Sakurai made a comment about the series needing more than just new characters in its next title and the internet ignited in chatter about a game that is little more than a whiteboard doodle at this point.

While people incessantly argue over what kind of game Smash Bros actually is (a party game, a competitive fighter, or both?) the fact of the matter is that Sakurai is in a very tough spot. Expectations are unfairly astronomical and there’s no way to please everybody. While Brawl was almost universally adored, the “hardcore players” (I used those quotes intentionally!) hated it due to removal of glitches that they felt enhanced competitive play.

A quote from Sakurai I find particularly amusing is that there "is a certain charm to games that have huge casts of playable characters, but they tend to have issues with game balance and it becomes very difficult to fine-tune each character and have them all feel distinctive”, because it indicates that he cares about character balance at all. Even those who do not play competitively know that Brawl’s character balance is all over the place, with Meta Knight so completely broken that he’s banned from tournaments.

The new direction Sakurai’s team should be exploring is the connectivity between 3DS and Wii U. Allowing both games to work in tandem and giving each player a more personalized experience would go a long way to breathe life into the franchise. The idea of being able to level up a character on my 3DS while I’m riding the train, then getting home and transferring him to my Wii U to play online gets me genuinely excited.

The roster is the least important thing at this juncture. We know it will grow, especially now that Namco Bandai is involved, and balance is certainly going to be a concern. The real “identity” of the game needs to be formed first and the rest will fall into place after that.

Oh yeah, and bring back Mewtwo.

What news pushed your buttons and got you thinking this week? Let us know in the comments below.

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User Comments (44)

AlexSays

#1

AlexSays said:

What more could you ask for?

More than like four third party games on a console? At least a number in the same ballpark as the other consoles?

NintyMan

#3

NintyMan said:

While Nintendo doesn't really crank out new IPs left and right, when they take the time to make one, it tends to really shine. It means a lot that Nintendo's existing IPs can grow and develop to keep good titles coming.

Nintendo must think that it's best to make a new, good game to an existing franchise that has an easy chance to succeed rather than make risky moves by making a lot of new IPs that may or may not work. In the early days, Nintendo did the latter idea comfortably, but now that they've got good games on good IPs coming to keep their boat afloat, they can make a new IP now and then to experiment and take their time. That's why IPs like Pikmin and WarioWare became so good, because Nintendo took their time and used their imagination even more.

As far as Smash Bros. goes, it just goes to show how intense the anticipation is when people speculate about two games that have only had a experimental prototype so far. There might only be a whiteboard doodle right now as well, but there can be a lot of ideas behind that doodle.

WingedSnagret

#5

WingedSnagret said:

Yes, it is amazing how much a simple doodle can spike the interest of thousands of gamers (myself included) over a game that has barely even begun development yet!

k8sMum

#6

k8sMum said:

I wish it was possible to get Amazon's online services on the Wii. It would be a great addition to the Netflix offerings.

k8sMum

#7

k8sMum said:

I wish Amazon's online services were available on the Wii, it would be a good supplement to hat Netflix offers.

I worry about Nintendo ever getting the mnet right.

MrWezzle

#9

MrWezzle said:

Heck yeah, I could enjoy seeing ol' Mewtwo back in the game. He was an exceptionally fun character to mess around with. Man, if they really could have a balanced Smash Bros. game, that'd be something incredible. The only time those games even came close to losing their fun factor is when friends start picking certain characters over their favorites because of the balance issues.

tat2

#10

tat2 said:

Was I the only one who actually read the Gamestop's article about new IP?
The headline was " When Do We See the Most New IP?" not "Why Nintendo Sucks?"
It was completely fair and unbiased towards Nintendo.

Your argument is "Quality over Quantity", when the truth is that both Microsoft and Sony can combine them.

goldgin

#11

goldgin said:

A nice "feel good" compilation overall, well done guys, this "Talking point" series of articles make you feel more like family, a main difference from other sites, it just seems as if you speak our opinion.
I didn't know about monilith aquisition and that Xenoblade plus other franchises from these talented people are exclusive to nintendo. Pretty excited now about 3DS/WiiU iterations. Even more knowing that my favorite jrpg series, Final Fantasy, has lost some of its more talented staff, thus becoming a series of stale/arcade iterations.

komicturtle

#13

komicturtle said:

@AlexSays
Don't make me pull out my list of phenomenal 3rd party games on Wii- majority of them exclusive. It's like treading on a landmine field.

Capt_N

#14

Capt_N said:

I think the Nintendo Network should be handled very carefully. Depending on how much the online is both integrated, as well as integral, to a majority of the WU's games, & to the system itself, could very well be detrimental for Nintendo, if they made even one false step in the online department.

Also, if Nintendo wants my money for an online service, they better make it worth it, especially in this economy. They stand to alienate customers, if they charge high for even just a decent online structure. & some won't buy into it from the start, &/or at all during the console's lifespan.

IPs - More "exclusivity" is good, but will Nintendo use that to their advantage? I can't say whether MS/Sony has both quantity, & quality, as I am only a Wii owner, & just last Christmas became a 3DS owner. I can say that in the past con(sole) gen(eration)s, my Nintendo game libraries have been sizable(around 10-20 games, sometimes even up to 30 almost). Maybe there are many more games for the Wii, that I would like, that perhaps I just don't know about? On the other hand, it could be an issue of fewer must-haves, or at least games that even if no one else is, I am interested in? Game libraries don't have to be large, but I haven't gotten a Wii game(VC/WW excluded) since Christmas 2010. The kicker is: as it stands, I only have 5 Wii titles/games, & if I was able to frivolously get every other game I could think of, that I want for Wii, I'd probable have about 10, or maybe a few more games in my collection right now. Now, don't get me wrong,... I think 10 games for a system is fair enough, could be better, but fair, especially since I can't just go out, & buy every game I want; I have to prioritize what game(s) I really want.

Smash Bros. - I wanna say Namco is involved, due to those mock-up music track(s) videos on Youtube. I also wanna say, although I'm a guy, I have no problems playing as female characters. Edit #2: Smash needs more playable female characters. That's what I meant to say, but forgot. I was pretty good as Zero Suit Samus, or even Peach. The series needs some old characters, & stages(N64 Hyrule castle, & Mushroom Kingdom complete w/ functioning warp pipes) brought back, as well as new. Perhaps even being the proverbial stage on/in which a completely new IP(particularly a character of this new IP) has a "welcoming party" into the fray/franchise/stable of Nintendo characters. Edit: Furthermore, a "new suprise IP" introduction could be a selling point of the game, or to save from disappointment, the character/stage/whatever the new IP content is included would not be know to the player, to even exist, until they unlock it in-game, either as a unmentioned surprise to the player, or as a mission w/ a shadowed out "?" for a reward.

Edit #3: Lastly, I enjoy these Another Look... features.

AlexSays

#15

AlexSays said:

I'm inclined to support that LK, the repetition of your avatar throughout these comments will make them much easier to read. So have at it.

It's not like I have to do any work either way, metacritic does that for me.

brandonbwii

#16

brandonbwii said:

@alexsays
...To which your point is moot as there are plenty of games on Wii with scores of 80% or higher and even you like games with low metacritic ratings, like Wii Music, lol.

AlexSays

#17

AlexSays said:

Much less than the other consoles when it comes to third parties. That was the point.

I don't need to provide the numbers, they are available for everyone to see.

brandonbwii

#18

brandonbwii said:

I cant find the edit button so I'll have to double post. The 3rd party complaints have gotten a little annoying. I understand some like "there aren't enough" but others like "there aren't enough exclusives" baffles me. There are rarely third party exclusives on any platforms.

The fact that the Wii received so many (timed) exclusives is a testament to the fact of its high installed base. Plus so many games didn't turn much profit so publishers would try again with a new IP. All part of the blessing and curse, the success and the failure of the Wii console.

It is, unfortunately, even if Wii U does somehow exceed Wii sales, we will likely see that many exclusives. Those will go to 720/PS4 as talented developers continue to lose their job due to over eagerness to work on the more expensive platforms.

brandonbwii

#19

brandonbwii said:

@AlexSays
You're right, unfortunately I'd argue that no console game has been given exceeding high rankings lately (except maybe mobile).

Capt_N

#20

Capt_N said:

@brandonbwii The Edit button will appear under your comment, after you post said comment, then reload the page. Edit: Depending on your browser, generally the F5 key on your keyboard is the shortcut key to reload a page.

AntiGuy

#21

AntiGuy said:

I just hope they keep both Sonic and Snake... but I have a feeling they won't come back...

komicturtle

#22

komicturtle said:

@AlexSays

Repetition? I don't comment much on news articles... So, I don't get it.

Let me name some at the top of my head at 2:30AM

Mysims
Zack & Wiki
Dead Space Extraction
Monster Hunter Tri
Goldeneye 007
Rock Band 2
Just Dance 2
Boom Blox (and it's sequel)
Order Up!
Chocobo's Dungeon
Moto Heroez
Muramasa
Worms Battle Islands
A Boy and His Blob
Rune Factory Frontier
Harvest Moon Tree of Tranquility
The Conduit
Bomberman Blast
Tetris Party
Resident Evil Dark Side Chronicles
Okami (yes, I'm bringing in a remake/port but it's still a great game)
Namco Museum Remix
Dragon Ball Z: BT2
Medal of Honor Heroes 2
We Love Golf
Final Fantasy 4: The After Years
Sonic Colors
Epic Mickey
De Blob

And there's more.. Far more than I can think of right now at this moment.

If you still want to say there's 4 games, go ahead. Reality should dawn on you at some point. And these games don't appeal to you, that's your problem. Not Nintendo's. And not the developer's who at least put in effort in making these great games. Laugh at Just Dance 2 and Rock Band. I'm trying to cover a broad range of games available on Wii, even if those two games don't appeal to me personally- a good game is a good game.

And Metacritic? Yeah, never logged in on their website once, personally. As I don't base my views on gaming based on bandwagon hopping or another's person's opinion and take it as fact.

Sorry for a having a broader taste in gaming.

Marioman64

#23

Marioman64 said:

i want Geno in Smash brothers, free online mario kart, and holographic pokemon to pet. and that's all i need

AlexSays

#24

AlexSays said:

Yeah, I meant quality games. Those rated highly by the majority.

If I were seeking a minority opinion I wouldn't come here. lol. There is at least one person in the world that believes EVERY Wii game is a great game. I dont rely on that opinion to judge a console.

The only objective way is to take a set score, and count over that score on an aggregate review site. Anything else is completely subjective. Most of those games you listed are recognized as being poor by the large majority of critics. Can't believe you listed The Conduit. lol

Slapshot

#25

Slapshot said:

I'm not shocked a bit by the "fee" to use Nintendo's premium online services. I think (hope) they'll go the PlayStation Plus-like route, and not cut their service off at the knees with a direct charge to play online. They've already got a huge hurdle to overcome with getting more people to play online with Wii U. Simply charging gamers to pay-to-play will not go over well at all.

LavaTwilight

#26

LavaTwilight said:

Loads of people want mewtwo back... so many in fact I'm worried he will. I for one don't actually care esp since he's essentially a Ness clone. I feel like people who have left since Melee have had their time and should gracefully move aside to allow new characters in, since there's so many to choose from. I'm not going to give more of my opinion as I'm probably already unpopular with banning Mewtwo from the next installment haha!
We'll probably see Pacman though which would be awesome, I agree with Nintendo not needing huge IP's though, even though I don't like Fox or Metroid I applaud them for being the top quality games that they are! And NintendoNetwork should do ok! After all Nintendo arent complete noobies when it comes to online interaction.

komicturtle

#27

komicturtle said:

@AlexSays

Your loss. And if you're going to "follow" a crowd, go ahead. Base your opinions on games you've never played based on what others say.

Brilliant.

AlexSays

#28

AlexSays said:

I'm not basing my opinion off of anything. lol

There is an objective and subjective view. I enjoy what I like, but that doesn't matter to everyone else.
When it comes to looking at a library objectively, subjective opinions do not matter.

It's okay that you think the Wii's library is the best thing ever, but when compared on a level playing field with its competition, it doesn't compare.

Your opinion is fantastic though and I'm glad you have one, just like the other six billion or so people.

komicturtle

#29

komicturtle said:

Then maybe you shouldn't say "There's only 4 games on Wii" and try to argue that point. And you don't need to backpedal on your statements. Being subjective sounds like the best way to go as I rather be positive than to be sulking around.

I rather enjoy something for what it is than what I want it to be. The latter sounds miserable.

And I never said the Wii's library is the best thing ever. Putting words in people's mouths doesn't help the situation, huh?

AlexSays

#30

AlexSays said:

Four highly rated third party exclusives? That's not far off I'm afraid. I'm not sure what I'm 'backpedaling' from. lol

It's pretty clear you are unable to distinguish your personal opinion from any sort of objective discussion. Which is fine, I admire your individuality. All of those reviewers lay out all of a game's faults for you, and do you care? Heck no, you completely ignore them and enjoy those games anyway!

I could never have such strength.

AlexSays

#31

AlexSays said:

Oh I apologize, there are FIVE. Five very highly (>90) rated third party Wii games. Two of which are Rock Band.

Next article of discussion: "I play games under 90"

Awesome. Pick any value. Count the number of third party titles over that number. Do the same for other consoles. Compare.

There is no personal opinion in here, and no 'sulking' as I do not care how much anything sucks, personally. This is an objective comparison that hurts the fragile egos here on this site.

komicturtle

#32

komicturtle said:

I'm capable to distinguishing my opinion from objective discussions- frankly, I tell it like it is. Again you're basing your thoughts on another's opinion. That's what reviews are for, right? Opinions? Or no, in your world, it's all facts.

lol My ego isn't fragile booboo. Sounds like you're taking it far more personally and going on a tangent.

AlexSays

#33

AlexSays said:

Tangent? There is nothing more closely related to the original point. lol

The Wii is lacking good third party exclusives. You try to disprove this by listing poorly rated games, YOU like. I use a source other than my own opinion which shows how few games there are.

It's basically your very own opinion vs. every aggregate review site. I'm not sure why we should go off of your opinion here.

komicturtle

#34

komicturtle said:

Majority of the games I listed are not poorly rated.

" I'm not sure why we should go off of your opinion here."

You're contradicting yourself and have double standards- those reviews are opinions, hun.

AlexSays

#35

AlexSays said:

You really want me to look up the numbers for all of those games? lol

And okay I'll make this simpler. It's a person who is paid to objectively look at a game's faults and assess them in accordance to the entire game.

You're just a consumer, which has been known to enjoy just about anything. Why should I say the Wii is doing just fine because there are plenty of third party exclusives you enjoy?

This makes no sense. It's like me saying "well I enjoy twice that many on the 360, so that wins!" and then asking you to accept that.

AlexSays

#36

AlexSays said:

Since I'm not going on forever about this...

360:
GTA IV
Bioshock
The Orange Box
Mass Effect 2
Skyrim
Red Dead Redemption
Portal 2
Batman: Arkham City
Oblivion
Call of Duty 4
Modern Warfare 2
Fallout 3
Mass Effect 3
Rock Band 3
Guitar Hero II
Rock Band
Batman: Arkham Asylum
Rock Band 2
Mass Effect
Assassin's Creed II
Bayonetta
Tom Clancy GRAW
FIFA 10 & FIFA 12
Dead Space 2
NBA 2k12

Wii:
Rock Band 2
Rayman Origins
Rock Band 3
Resident Evil 4
Okami

*intentionally left out downloadable games, which would only help the 360..
** these are highly specific parameters. expand upon these and the gap increases.

Same exact parameters. If you don't see a difference there, there's nothing I can do for you. Or anyone for that matter. lol

Have a terrific day

komicturtle

#37

komicturtle said:

You're taking the situation far too seriously.

I'm not arguing Wii doesn't have as many games as 360 or PS3. And frankly, I'm not asking you to accept anything other than to acknowledge there are more than 4 good games on Wii. Again, for the 3rd time, you're basing your views on other's opinions. And save the numbers- they're not important to me and really shouldn't be for anyone else. Even folks here on Nintendolife believe you shouldn't entirely judge a game based on a review. It's all opinions.

Why? It makes sense. And review these days are frankly unreliable with the bias thrown in- hence the poor review of Mario Kart 7 on Destructoid where the man whines about it being too much of the same yet he turns around to praise Dynasty Warriors and Call of Duty and claims "they push the genre forward". This goes for some IGN reviewers too, where they pull a pancake move all the time. And there were incorrect information in regards to Mario Tennis Open where they claimed there were NO 4-PLAYER online matches- clearly the review was written up on a whim. And you're telling me (I think) that I should look at everything objectively and base my thoughts on other's opinions?

No thanks. I'll be subjective and be happy. At the same time, looking at things in a broader perspective and acknowledging them. I play games to play them, not to nitpick which the media tends to do all the time.

EDIT: You wasted your time pulling out a list I just don't care for. It only proves that those games got high scores... that's it...

danschemen

#38

danschemen said:

this is a really good series, i agree with the second person saying that why change something that's not broken, people really do just find things about Nintendo just to try to make other companies look better.

Chuie

#39

Chuie said:

the characters i want
llyod
zelos or emil
Klonoa
bowser jr
rosalina
zoroark
pkm traniner chikarita quilava feraligator
goron
zora
skull kid
waluigi
knuckles or shadow
take out
rob
lucas(sadly)
snake(god i love hes games but he wasnt fun to play with sadly)

BulbasaurusRex

#40

BulbasaurusRex said:

I agree that they should bring back Mewtwo, but this time give it some better special attacks instead of that wimpy Confusion flip and mostly useless Confuse Ray or whatever it is. It's supposed to be the supreme psychic powerhouse, after all, so make sure it acts like it this time.

shinpichu

#41

shinpichu said:

This article was mostly fine, but I'm offended at that little remark about hardcore(no quotes) Melee fans. Seriously, not only is it insulting to question their dedication to the game, but it was also very insulting to boil down hardcore complaints to just missing a few glitches. People had far more problems with the reduced game speed, increased focus on luck, and reduced hitstun than they did with the removal of any specific technique or exploit.

shinpichu

#42

shinpichu said:

Also, are people really that surprised that the increase in roster size will be less than previous games? Think about it: most of the big names are already accounted for, and if they did add 10-15 new characters, it would mostly wind up being a lot of B-listers and obscure characters that few have heard of.

Onett

#43

Onett said:

Counterpicking is frustrating. I can't tell you how many times my Wolf got shut down from Dedede and Falco users abusing Wolf's terrible recovery from grab releases.

Yes, all I want is my Mewtwo back with the addition of Magnus and Groose. It will be a very manly character roster.

No more Pokemon please. Zoroark is a ugly digimon.

wariowarewolf

#44

wariowarewolf said:

Nintendo IPs:
Kirby
Mario
Starfox
Zelda
Warioware
Brain Training
Kid Icarus
Picross
Mario Kart
Animal Crossing
Pikmin
Pokemon
Metroid
New one which will be revealed next year
Harvest Moon
Donkey Kong
F-Zero
Fire Emblem
Earthbound
Rhythm Tengoku series
Chibi-Robo
Excitebike
Yoshi's Island
Nintendogs
Advance Wars

Those are just a few. Nintendo's output is low because they really work and polish new IPs before they release them so that they properly hit us with a sense of awe.

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