News Article

Talking Point: Using Glitches - Cheating or Clever Gaming?

Posted by Thomas Whitehead

Everyone stay calm

This week game cheats have been in the news. We learnt about the origins of the Konami Code and, controversially, that Nintendo has no plans to fix Mario Kart 7’s Maka Waku glitch. All this talk of codes, shortcuts and glitches got us thinking about the morality of these gaming quirks: when is it acceptable to take advantage of these erroneous pieces of game design, and when does it become blatant cheating? We’re going to attempt to break these glitches down into categories, both controversial and otherwise.

Game glitches have been in existence throughout the entire history of home console and handheld gaming. Many examples from the NES and Super Nintendo days have a certain mythology and place in popular culture, with some being truly engrained in gaming folklore. Super Mario Bros. has some particularly famous examples, such as running across the top of the screen to access warp pipes, or the infinite 1-up trick. The warp pipe example seems to have been deliberately programmed, designed to reward gamers with a sense of experimentation and adventure. The 1-up trick, meanwhile, requires skill and timing to prompt a never ending cycle of jumping on a koopa shell. These examples represent what we’ll call ‘skilful glitching’, utilising loopholes that are deliberate or otherwise for a recognisable reward.

Another form of glitch is the programming error, when a title’s graphics engine is manipulated for absurd results. This applies to consoles both old and new, with certain actions prompting the game world to lose control. The Nintendo 64 has some fun examples in titles such as Super Mario 64 and Banjo Kazooie, where particular jumps cause their respective heroes to fall through the floor or float in open space. Early polygon-based 3D titles were particularly culpable, with these tricks normally reserved for the most experimental of gamers. These often bring no advantage to gameplay, but can be fun to prompt and share online.

If a professional tester finds it necessary to use a code to play through a particularly tough game, then where’s the harm in that?

Then we have cheat codes or devices, often requiring a combination of buttons and D-Pad direction inputs to provide extra lives, unlimited continues, a fixed life bar or any manner of other power-ups. The Konami Code is a particularly famous example, and when these codes are used in single-player games they could be considered as entirely harmless. If a professional tester finds it necessary to use a code to play through a particularly tough game, then where’s the harm in that? Unfortunately, some cheat codes, or game modding, are used in competitive online gaming. FPS (first-person shooter) titles are particularly notorious: you know you’re facing a code breaker when you throw a grenade in an opponent’s face and they merely blink. Game developers often try to counter this issue with behind-the-scenes server updates, but those in pursuit of experience points are hard to stop.

These glitches in competitive multiplayer titles can be a major irritation to gamers playing honestly, and that seems to be the issue at the heart of the Mario Kart 7 shortcut. It doesn’t appear, in our view, to be a deliberate shortcut that the developers intended to include in the game, nor does it require a great deal of skill to use. There are no complex button combinations, nor any manipulation of coding, but rather a simple act of driving off the road at a specific point. Anyone can do it, and thanks to plenty of online coverage and demonstration videos the majority of players now know how. Those who hurl themselves off the road skip a large portion of the track, making it impossible for those following the actual course to keep up.

It’s a tricky debate to determine whether using this shortcut constitutes actual cheating. Some claim that it’s an innocent action on the grounds that everyone can take advantage. Perhaps that is the real issue, however, as it has quickly become the most common way to complete this track in the title’s online multiplayer: quite a spectacle as half a dozen Nintendo mascots grind to a halt, queuing up to plunge to a glorious death. Unlike other courses in the title that have quicker routes and ramps accessible to those with a handy speed-boost mushroom, this trick is easily abused.

Perhaps the real shame is that a rather enjoyable course is cut short by so many gamers, with those who refuse to use the shortcut having to resign themselves to a low placing as the majority finish 30 seconds ahead. It seems that an honest race around this track, as the designers intended, is only possible in single-player.

It’s all a grey area, however, as there will always be those who decry the use of glitches, cheat codes and shortcuts in any form. Perhaps the distinction should be made when these false advantages are used unfairly in online multiplayer titles, taking away an element of competitive fun for those who are either unaware or unwilling to play along.

What do you think? Is taking advantage of cheat codes and glitches always wrong, acceptable in certain circumstances, or fair game no matter what? Let us know in the comments below but remember, let’s all play nice.

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User Comments (105)

Malkeor

#1

Malkeor said:

Cheating to be honest. If it's a glitch, it wasn't intentional. By doing it, depending on what it is, can give you an unprecedented advantage.
(excludes 'game-breaking glitches')

I tend to play through the game normally, though if there's an opportunity to go back and try the glitch I will check it out for fun.

Cheat codes on the other hand should be done for fun, or if you don't really care about challenging yourself.
I used to do cheat codes all the time, sometimes they feel necessary for some old school games, but I did it just to have fun when they were so abundant back in the previous generations.

Wildvine53

#2

Wildvine53 said:

I don't like glitches, but if someone takes advantage of a glitch in Single Player is fine by me, it only affects their game, no one else's. Using a glitch in online multiplayer is can ruin the course for everyone else. If you have to cheat to win, then it's nothing but a hollow victory.

RoryLee

#3

RoryLee said:

If you use glitches to win in an online game, that's unfair to the rest of the players and just plain cheap.

NintenHero

#5

NintenHero said:

The other glitches above I can agree with, they require skill and experimentation, which any real gamer would do. But the Maka Wuhu glitch is for noobs who can't play Mario Kart imo... I don't use it. I always place second or thrid because someone uses the glitch, lmao.
I've been thinkin' about usin' it though, just because it's gettin' annoyin'.
Seriously.

JustAnotherUser

#6

JustAnotherUser said:

I thinks it's a matter of morals.
Things like the 1-up glitch is ok but stuff like Makawuhu Mountain Loop is not (For me Single player and online)

AVahne

#7

AVahne said:

Cheating if used in multiplayer. You're killing the fun for other people. If you wanna glitch, do it alone.

zezhyrule

#8

zezhyrule said:

I agree with the people who say "as long as it affects no one else it's fine". Cheating in Maka Wuhu Mountain Loop whatever greatly affects other people.

Smitherenez

#9

Smitherenez said:

I don't mind using glitches and cheats in single player games, they add an extra layer of replayability and can lead towards some fun experiences. But for competitive online multiplayer, people should know better. Glitches will always be abused. Just look at COD:WaW a few years ago, everyone knew how to get under the maps in multiplayer, and it was fun at first. But after while me and my friends were just running for the glitch spots so that we could prevent others from abusing it. luckily, it got patched. I really hope that Nintendo is going to add a patching system for WiiU (and 3DS).

Link79

#11

Link79 said:

Nintendo themselves must approve of the use of that Mario bros Koopa on the stairs trick. They put it in several of the games after that. Are we sure that even counts as a glitch considering how it was intentionally added to other Mario games just for the fun of it?

Rococoman

#12

Rococoman said:

Taking advantage of glitches has given a lot of competitive games a lot of depth, such as cancel-combos in Street Fighter II (though I have doubts as to whether or not this was actually not intended). Unfortunately, the presence of glitches like this, which cut out supposedly interesting parts of gameplay, just result in games that don't hold up to competitive play. I would argue that certain design choices can kill competitive gameplay just as much as certain glitches can.

I think Mario Kart 7 is a minor example, since in my experience most people have stopped picking Maka Wahu to race on. Look at Mario Kart DS, though. In my opinion, Mario Kart DS featured the most varied selection of driving styles as far as mechanics go - some had long boosts and loose sliding radii, and so on. However, all of this gets washed over by the ability to 'snake,' essentially limiting your competitive choices to one driving style. Does this ruin the game? I don't think so. Does it make the competitive aspect of the game boring and dependent on a single technique? I would argue yes.

Smash Bros Brawl competition is easily dominated by Meta Knight, far and away the best character in the game. Does this ruin the game? Hardly - I love playing this game. Does it make playing to win boring and dependent on a limited number of choices? Definitely.

So far, I think MK7 is a great competitive game, unfortunately suffering from having one of its best courses greatly shortened. Games with easily exploited glitches can still be a blast with friends and for playing, but for 'competing', they just result in a bad game with a tiny community. If glitches like this keep popping up in MK7, the result will be that anonymous, competitive play will get stale and boring. At that point, there's no use in getting worked up over a 'bad' game.

LittleKing

#14

LittleKing said:

A glitch is not just any trick which was intentionally programmed in. A glitch is the exploitation of faulty code. In your first set of examples, the code running the game acts as intended. The Warp Zones were placed there on purpose, either for gamers or developers. The areas themselves, and the way you access them, require nothing more than the normal gameplay mechanics. No jumping through walls needed. Same for Infinite 1-UPs.

The last group is not glitching by any means. It's called hacking. You know, that's why we call them hackers. The results of hacking are not the effects of solely the original code. If the code is already in the game, then that's not glitching either. The game was programmed to recognize a set of characters or button presses and alter the way it reacts. I press A, I fire a bullet. I press A, X, Y, B, X, Y, B, UP, DOWN and I get infinite bullets. See?

This whole thing has me confused. You're throwing every little tip, trick and hack together and calling them glitches. It makes no sense whatsoever. At least call them what they are. Basically everyone's going like this: "Oh look, that guy just accessed a secret area that the developers put in on purpose," or "Whoa, that dude is using infinite Mega Mushrooms online," and then replying with, "OMG, OMG, OMG GLITCH!!!!!"

paul6891

#15

paul6891 said:

I just raced that very track, all 7 other players used the glitch and cheated! The thing is if everybody uses it it no longer holds an advantage!

Terave

#16

Terave said:

Like @Viewtiful_Joe states. However, some glitches need real skill. Not that stupid Maka Wuhu drop off the edge which causes you skip half of the course.

3DS

#17

3DS said:

Now lets take The Conduit which is FULL of Glitches :P Rocket Launcher Glitch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bltMsYk9r1w That is cheating but others like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaa_FTBwRlI That isn't cheating it's just playing with the game and getting it too do something that it shouldn't do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8I5xiyj0Y4 This is part skill as you have to jump onto a lamp post or jump and melee at a wall to get out the map but from the second you get out off the map it is Cheating!

ArcanaXVI

#18

ArcanaXVI said:

Agreed with the majority: Such a glitch should remain in single-player (though, frankly, it still robs the player of the fun of the course and the thrill of the win, but that's okay--they're hurting nobody but themselves). I haven't even had the opportunity to play online yet, and now I rather dread it, knowing that everybody will want to play the glitched circuit.

AbuJaffer

#19

AbuJaffer said:

The "Koopa on the stairs" was shown as a secret during the 25th anniversary video compilation, so I think it's got the Nintendo stamp of approval. But single-player games (and select few multiplayer ones, usually locally) are, in my opinion, an OK place to utilize a couple glitches. Sadly, however, these days glitches are how people cheat, seeing how the developers didn't plan for them to be used, while cheats (if they even exist nowadays) are considered part of the actual game.

theblackdragonAdmin

#20

theblackdragon said:

Avery is right in that there's a difference between a glitch and a plain old trick or secret — i think lumping them all together like this is a mistake. Programmers are notorious for including little easter eggs, secret areas, and tricks to help players (and, in the case of the Konami Code, themselves!) get through games successfully. They don't rely on the game screwing up to get you ahead, and sometimes they're more of a hinderance than they are a help (like attempting to take an off-road shortcut in a kart driven by a lightweight with poor off-road stats).

Glitches, though, are the fault of buggy programming — as is the case with Maka Wuhu. You're not taking a 'secret' shortcut or another path programmed in (like the boost ramp in Koopa Beach or the mountain wall path at the beginning of Kalimari Desert), you're falling off the track in just the right way (as in Frappe Snowland) and the Lakitu thinks you were farther along than where you actually were when you fell. That's a glitch, plain and simple, and exploiting a true glitch to get ahead of other people in online play is indeed cheating. Do that kind of thing on your own all you like, but In competitive play, the game should be played the way it was meant to be played, and Nintendo is doing a disservice to their online community by not enforcing this.

warioswoods

#21

warioswoods said:

If only the "communities" feature in MK7 allowed you to ban users, or even just limit track selection, this problem would be inconsequential.

Shock_Tart

#22

Shock_Tart said:

glitching like Arcana said. should remain a single player type of thing, and mostly some glitches arent that bad, its a "hey look what i can do" type of thing. the maka wuhu glitch though was a really big mess up with nintendo, if they couldnt find a glitch as obviously huge as that one was they need to have a serious talk with their testers and possibly hire some new ones. this point is proven even more so if you look at the skyward sword glitch that causes the game to be impossible to complete. nintendo did fix that one i know, but they should have never let that slip by. so to nintendo i say this. STOP RUSHING TITLES! these two major glitches in two of your bigger games that came out in 2011 should have been proof of that. you could obviously make a lot more money if you took the time and effort to make sure a project ends as smoothly as possible. as my roommate said "i honestly think something is wrong with the gaming societey when people with college degrees who are paid to test games somehow miss a glitch as irritating as maka wuhu's yet kids who arent even out of highschool yet find it within seconds"

Yosher

#24

Yosher said:

I actually like playing around with glitches a lot, they're fun to use and explore what you can do with them. I don't like using glitches when they give me an unfair advantage in an online game though, and the only reason I use the Maka Wuhu one is because pretty much everyone does due to it being way too easy to do, as opposed to Grumble Volcano's and whatnot.

LittleKing

#25

LittleKing said:

@theblackdragon My sentiments exactly. I find it can actually be almost insulting to call an easter egg, or trick, a glitch. If I developed a game and purposely put fun little secrets in for gamers to find, and gamers started calling them glitches, I'd be a little mad. IMO, you're essentially accusing a programmer's code of being poorly written, and that it doesn't account for all the variables, when you say his or her game has glitches in it. Although, glitches are pretty unavoidable in all forms.

Scarkaiser

#26

Scarkaiser said:

The thing that makes the Maku Wuhu glitch suck, is that because it is so easy to pull off you'll find yourself matched up with tons of others who only vote for that one course alone.

Obviously winning becomes way too dang important to people, so they only choose to race in a course where they hope to gain an unfair advantage.

Glitches in single player games are fine.

CorbsAdmin

#28

Corbs said:

When it comes to playing online, if one person uses a glitch or shortcut, I'll use it too. I want to win and if it means using a glitch that others are using, I'll do it without hesitation. But generally I prefer to play a game the way it was intended to be played.

RoryLee

#30

RoryLee said:

@Mr. Trill
I play to win, but I have enough skill to beat a game without cheating. Plus I'm there to enjoy a game, not to brag about beating a game before everyone else does.

RaylaxStaff

#31

Raylax said:

Is this article supposed to be just about glitches or game exploits in general, because it's covering a hell of a lot more than the title would suggest.

Programmed-in cheat codes are not glitches, game modifications using a 3rd-party device are not glitches, and the warp pipes in Super Mario Bros are as far away from a glitch as it's reasonably possible to be. Sliding through the wall in world 1-2 to warp to the Minus World, now that is a glitch. But the standard ceiling-running-accessed warp zone is not.

A glitch specifically refers to a programming oversight where in which the game behaves in an unintentional manner through no user modification of the internal code.

Wide-scope article aside, when it comes to whether glitches are cheating or clever gaming comes down to the glitch, the player, and the other participants. There's no all-encompassing answer. Using an easy glitch online to all but guarantee victory? That's the unpleasant end of cheating. Using an exploit in a single-player game that sends yourself or your enemies hurtling through the skybox thanks to the physics engine being fed an astronomical value? That's the legitimate, harmless end of glitching. It's also hilarious. And everything else fits somewhere in between.

But if we have to fit a blanket black-and-white rule to glitching, it's that multiplayer exploits that make victory significantly easier are bad (unless all participants consent to its use), and single-player general effing around the system is good clean fun. If you really care that your little brother has "cheated" his way through Super Mario Bros by amassing 99 lives, then step outside and get some fresh air.

For a change.

Capt_N

#32

Capt_N said:

I agree w/ the majority that glitches are fine single player, but not online w/ others, *esp. if not all the other players participate in utilizing a glitch. Cheat codes in single player are fine. In online multi, cheat codes are fine, as long as 1. the host server/player/whoever makes the rules gives the ok, &/or 2. Prior to entering a match, everyone is made aware of the use of cheat codes, & how to take advantage of them, so the playing field is even. Otherwise, cheat codes in online multi shouldn't be either, as w/ glitches

SkywardLink98

#33

SkywardLink98 said:

Personally I think it's clever gaming as long as it doesn't glitch up the other players gaming. Using a glitch to bypass large sections of the track is ok, but messing up the other players camera isn't.

joevox316

#34

joevox316 said:

If your playing with other people I'd have to say it's chaeting unless you all agree it's OK.

On another note, I miss the days when you could find awesome cheat codes online like infinite this or that and invincibility. Now all those sites have are a list of "unlockables" and "achievements." Ohh how I hate achievements...

Rawk_Hawk

#35

Rawk_Hawk said:

I beat the final boss of Pulseman with a glitch trick. I'm sorry but I really wanted to see the ending.

ThomasBW84Admin

#36

ThomasBW84 said:

Just to clarify for anyone getting hung up on word choice. In the opening paragraph I refer to 'codes, shortcuts and glitches'. I then say that the Super Mario Bros. warp pipes are deliberate programming, while the 1-up trick needs some skill to execute. I'm not lumping deliberate programming together with code errors, I did make a distinction :)

The term 'skilful glitching' was just what popped into my head, as even these deliberate quirks in the game bend the standard rules, albeit in an intentional way: as I said, rewards to those who experiment and explore.

Things such as the Konami Code are also deliberate, but again disrupt the basic framework of the game, rewarding you with lives etc outside of normal gameplay. I didn't actually refer to those as glitches directly, but cheat codes, and it's not my intention to say anything negative about these shortcuts that are purposefully included in the game by the developers. I also made a clear distinction about people breaking the code and modding in online FPS games in particular: I should have referenced hacking directly, but I did make it clear that these people were influencing the game outside of the developer's control. If you look beyond the use of a single word, I do make the distinction between these kind of things and outright errors in software, such as the Mario Kart 7 example.

I guess I was thinking of a glitch as something that bends the normal rules of a game, but outlined that they can be deliberate or programming errors, and they can either be useless or give the gamer a big advantage. I used enough distinctions though, not describing every example as a basic 'glitch'.

MotorTCD

#37

MotorTCD said:

personally using glitches/cheats is fine in single player but beyond that it becomes unfair(though i use glitches online i think THAT's ok and cheats i use in pokemon indirrectly)

Sylverstone

#38

Sylverstone said:

Quite a spectacle as half a dozen Nintendo mascots grind to a halt, queuing up to plunge to a glorious death.

Best line in this article.

zionich

#39

zionich said:

Either way, you exploiting a glitch. Now, I think it only matters when your not the only person playing the game. If your playing by yourself, your playing for your enjoyment. If your doing it in a multi-player setting, your doing it to win or worse, get a rise out of people.

DarkKirby

#40

DarkKirby said:

If you want to cheat/glitch/exploit in a single player game that's fine. The only person you effect is yourself. If you do it in a competitive multiplayer environment because you "like winning" and "winning is the only thing that matters" you're a donkey hole. Cheating "within the game's technical limits" is still cheating. Someone mentioned Pokemon, so I will say while I don't approve of cheating to get perfect IVs, I don't think the game should be made so getting perfect IVs without cheating or exploits for a single Pokemon should have the probability of doing so so incredibly low it's like winning the lottery. And in a competitive Pokemon match, EVERY STAT DOES MATTER, and IVs MATTER A LOT. It's a game, and it's one thing to have a guaranteed reward for players who put in hard work, and another to likely guarantee no reward no matter how hard you work, and provide no guaranteed way for people who play the game without cheating "within the game's technical limits (and thus it's not possible to "prove" they cheated)" to have the same maxed stats that people who cheat have and have the whole IV system based on luck that's very much not in your favor.

yuuds

#42

yuuds said:

I dont want to use them its just if i dont i will lose in last place online.

TysonOfTime

#43

TysonOfTime said:

Well, if everyone else does it, just do it! It's a racing game. But I've been playing the online, and the only time Maka Wuhu was picked, no one used the shortcut. Let's not make it a big deal.

Funny how we're talking about fairness in MARIO KART. Want to finish in First? Blue Shell.

JayArr

#46

JayArr said:

My attention span is so short that I never stick with a game long enough to care about glitch abuse.

EvilLucario

#48

EvilLucario said:

Super Metroid has a lot of glitches, but they enchance the experience. On the final part of the game where you have to get past the red walls, you can get past them without using any missiles. Also, during the fight with Mother Brain, if you take off the Varia and Gravity Suit with seven energy tanks filled (no more, no less) up at the top of the screen, and you get hit by the rainbow beam, you can stand up and keep on killing Mother Brain, but 15 seconds faster than the normal way. Yeah, it's not that big of a deal, but it is to TASers.

Oh yeah, and the Golden Torizo glitch where you can get a crapton of items by holding these buttons together. It makes you wonder how these people even discover these glitches. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMuXUvnk6Hg

Glitches aren't bad unless they are online.

sephirothZ

#49

sephirothZ said:

this glitch has been used over and over, it really ruins everyone's fun, and i honestly think the programmers put it in the game since ALL of the mario games have a glitch, heck its difficult for new people to even get points online, and right after they cheat , they do it again and again, and again its just not fair to other players , and btw HACKING isnt putting buttons down JUST to win, using an AR(action replay) to win thats HACKING, and i think people use that online as well

sephirothZ

#50

sephirothZ said:

everyone wants to have fun in games, nobody wants to die just because someone online, uses a infinity health cheat, dam just accept your fate man, you cant just go online and win EVERY battle you are in, you have to lose. and another thing that i'm pissed about: WHATS WITH ALL THE PEOPLE TURNING THEIR GAMES OFF ONLINE? i'm sure you've been in a moment where you were gonna die., you dont have to turn the game off everytime you lose (MK7)

WingedSnagret

#51

WingedSnagret said:

Depending on how it is done, I think that most of the time it can be split down like this: Offline 1 player okay: Offline multiple players, depends on who your playing with, and how evil you are ;) : Online, ABSOLUTELY NOT!!

Mikau94

#52

Mikau94 said:

I don't like glitches that ruin the experience of the game, like cheating in online matches or simple AR cheating on easy games. When it comes to glitches that take amazing timing and skill, like the bomb hover in Ocarina of Time, I don't mind at all. Those are the things you find after you have beaten the game and use to find secrets and other fun stuff.

tanookisuit

#53

tanookisuit said:

Quite simply from my perspective as a former worker at a game making company if the code is left in or a bug is overlooked, then when you're using it on your own and not to compete among others it's fair game and depending what it is you're just cheating yourself.

If you use it against others for unfair advantage that's cheating. If you have a game like Mario Kart DS or Mario Kart 7 in both cases with programming glitches/oversights ie: snaking to turbo a whole course or the hole in the wall on the new one, that's downright cheating and I'd hope if X game had the system in place a one time use would be a permanently bannable offense. The Mario Kart DS one was far worse of the two and even they came out and admitted it was a glitch and asked people not to abuse it(which meant nothing obviously.)

eviLaTtenDant

#54

eviLaTtenDant said:

Dont ever, ever, ever use a glitch kids. You'll end up in gamer's hell. Don't believe me ? Ask Chicken_Brutus what it's like.

iphys

#55

iphys said:

If you hack a game, or enter a secret code at a title screen, or pause the game to enter a secret code, I call that cheating because you are doing something outside of the gameplay to influence it. If you are simply playing the game and take a secret shortcut that the programmers included on purpose or use a glitch that the programmers included by mistake, I don't consider that cheating because it is part of the gameplay whether the programmers intended for it to be or not.

kyuubikid213

#56

kyuubikid213 said:

In my honest opinion, IT DEPENDS.

If it isn't a game breaking glitch, then by all means, use it IF IN SINGLE PLAYER. If it is a game breaking glitch, don't say I didn't warn you.

Otherwise, if it is like the Maka Wuhu glitch, I would advise that you don't use it in online play. I mean really. It doesn't show that you have skill, it shows that you suck and need a leg up on everyone else. However, if you do use glitches like this online, I don't care. I have raced on Maka Wuhu many times after the glitch got popular and many, many times have I seen people screw up the glitch and end up behind me because I am playing fair or seen people (who have no Mario Kart skill to begin with) get hit by some set piece because they just suck.

So, in short, if you aren't online, go ahead. If you are, prepare to get hated and banned.

BlueAce127

#57

BlueAce127 said:

I'm so tired of seeing people pick Maka Wuhu and seeing them use the glitch...

GRRR!!!

MasterGraveheart

#58

MasterGraveheart said:

More times than not, I call foul on using glitches. Built-in secrets, such as the SMB warp zone are fine, but glitches like Maka Wuhu in Mario Kart 7, I call foul. As others have stated, you're using something not intended for the game and you're not using your raw skill. You're taking advantage of a programming bug.

I'll never play Maka Wuhu via wi-fi because of such bugs and how easy it is to exploit it.

Aqueous

#59

Aqueous said:

I'm an all out anti-glitch user, cheating devices have messed up a couple of my ds games by playing people using the a-cursed action replay and quite honestly I've never really liked them. A similar thing happened in a game called Bugdom, hated those, you could never figure out what was skipped or where you wound up. I'm all out against this Maka Wuhu glitch I've only lost a race there to an honest racer and we were 3rd and 4th. Then there was this one, that has bothered me for years, worse yet I've never found out what happened because in pokemon yellow, me and my brother were sharing we got to Celadon City and I was having my play, I pushed a on the lady in the department store and a list popped up out of the floor list thing on the desk, never having been there before I thought it was normal (I was 7) and on the list was alot of pokemon names and levels and I took Charmander, who knows what else was there, all it did was take me back to a previous save and removed all future saved data and progress, I'm not happy, nor was my younger brother. I'm all out against glitches, if you wan to use ones on your own like the level skip in super mario bros be my guest but aside from that, they are not fair to those who wish nothing to do with them.

Kyloctopus

#60

Kyloctopus said:

I find some cheats online fun. When my brother was playing Goldeneye, one round everyone had rocket launchers, in another round, it was melee only and everyone had Oddjob hats. When I was playing MKW one guy had unlimited blue shells. But he hurt himself for some reason.

Dodger

#61

Dodger said:

The Maka Wuhu glitch is a pain in the rear. I only use it when playing against random people because I have to. Seems like somebody always picks Maka Wuhu. I played the stage 3 times in a row once after watching it in spectator mode before while trying to get in.

The Maka Wuhu glitch is annoying but I get why the majority use it. Action Replays are just plain cheap. I have no respect for gamers who use ARs in multiplayer. You can ruin your single player game if you insist but you don't have to ruin everybody else's fun by making it require no skill. You may get a perfect record but does it mean anything if you didn't earn it? Same with people who quit right before the end if they are going to lose.

I don't get why people like online leaderboards so much. #1 is always cheating. Watch the replays for MKwii. Everytime I do, it is somebody driving into a wall and getting a score that is physically impossible.

I don't care about single player glitches. I use the yoshi glitch sometimes in SMG2 to try and save myself if I fall, for example.

StarDust4Ever

#63

StarDust4Ever said:

The Wii exploits, are near-impossible to pull off consecutively without a mushroom at the start line. I attempted the Grumble Volcano glitch like 50 times in time trials, read/watched toutorials online, and not once did I ever reach the mountain top. I can't even fathom pulling off the Mushroom Gorge / Wario's Gold Mine glitches, as those are strictly for the gravity-defying acrobatic stunt devils. Yet, I was able to achieve the Maka-Wuhu glitch on my first attempt in time trials after reading about it online (with mushroom). I'd imagine not that many people do it in time trials; otherwise there would be two distinctly visible peaks on the bell curve to divide the glitchers and non-glitchers. My Mii is on the far right-hand side, and there's definitely room for improvement with the right character/kart combo and skillful play. You can also easily perform the glitch without a mushroom too, but to insure success, you nearly have to turn around and drive off going backwards. No mushroom, turn around and aim for the water under the bridge. Mushrooms, aim to the right and blast off strait towards the back of the rocks.

I was playing MK7 late at night (5:00am) with a group of players, most of them from Japan, and there were two people who constantly picked Maka-Wuhu. Knowing good weel what they were up to, I glitched alongside three other players (my first attempt was a miss due to someone knocking me off the track prematurely), and when Likatu placed me high on the track in fourth place, I was able to grind my way to 2nd by the end of the track, thanks to some triple red shells I picked up, and a Blue Spiny from someone way in the back of the course. I never vote for Maka-Wuhu in Worldwide wifi, but if I see someone voting that course over and over again, I'll sure as heck glitch when the course gets picked, because I know that person's intentions. So yeah, I'll glitch to win if necessary, but I never vote that course intentionally just so I can wind by doing so. BTW, four (including myself) is the most I've ever seen do it simultaneously in a single 8-player race, and upon voting for the next track, the player count had dropped to 5, so I'd imagine at least 3 of the four players who came in last got mad and quit after that race.

Whenever I see two or more people voting the Maka-Wuhu circuit, I let out a snicker and I'm like "game on!" And it has been said so many times before, "If you can't beat 'em... Join 'em!"

Also, the game gives you "Next Race" and "Quit" options at the end of every race, so if you're offended by the glitch and you enter a group of 7 other racers all voting "Maka Wuhu", then just tough the course out, either glitch with them or accept the loss, then tap "quit" at the end of the race and reneter with a new group. Over time, the glitch-abusers often tend to congregate in groups, so if you select "quit" at the end of the race, you're free to reenter and hopefully race with a nicer bunch. Usually, glitch-abusers or not, there will be pleanty of fresh meat after every 5 or 6 or so wifi races.

PS - My VR rating is now 1500-something, and I often do quire well in many of the other non-Wuhu tracks. Occasionally, I'll get a 5th, 6th, or 7th, but I also get a lot of 1sts, 2nds, and 3rds. A lot of it is luck and skillful item deployment. Sometimes you're 1st place halfway through 3rd lap and a Blue Spiney knocks you back to 5th. I've also sabatoged quite a few players on my way to the top as well. After all, the name of the game is Mario Kart, not Nascar! I know a lot of people on this forum do not agree with me on this "glitch" issue, but that's fine. I'm 30 years old (not a whiney kid), and Nintendo has made clear their stance on this issue: They have no plans to fix the glitch, nor are they going to attempt to prevent people from abusing it online, and the cartridge has the gold Nintendo Seal on it, meaning they approve and stand by their product. For better or worse, people need to stop whining and accept it, that they can either perform the glitch and finish the race, or be glitched out. It's still hilareous on so many levels and it gives me such a thrill whenever some 1st place wannabe picks the Maka-Wuhu course and I manage to out-glitch them and beat them at their own game! ;)

castor

#64

castor said:

Sorry, but using this glitch is no fun at all. Such a nice racer you are cutting a part of the track, huh? Weather it is online or not, I wouldn't use it. It feels the same as cheating in Mario Kart Wii online. Look at that track, it's awesome, and I want to race the whole track, not go with the flow. It's so childish using that glitch... "OH IF IT'S THERE THEN IT'S OK BLABLABLA LOOK AT ME I'M MR. CLEVER"

StarDust4Ever

#65

StarDust4Ever said:

Why not try beating them at their own game? It's only not fun if your not doing it. It's like choosing to not use items because somehow you feel like it's wrong to wreck the other players carts. Face it: MarioKart is a Dog-eat-dog world. You either Pwn or be Pwned! :P

BLUlink

#66

BLUlink said:

"quite a spectacle as half a dozen Nintendo mascots grind to a halt, queuing up to plunge to a glorious death"
I Lol'd at that.^ And I've seen four or five of them actually DO it at once, too. XD

It's rather annoying when half of the competitors pick Maka Wuhu EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Especially when we just did that course. XD

I just can't see why they wouldn't fix that. ):

MrZanctom

#67

MrZanctom said:

The Maka Wuhu glitch should be fixed. I love it, but I feel like I am cheating when I use it. I didn't even use it until I started losing badly on online races. If you do I will do it too. I want to win too.

TysonOfTime

#70

TysonOfTime said:

Hey, StarDust is right. What better way to stop glitche exploiters than to beat them at their own game? Use the glitch and beat them, until they realize the glitch won't guarantee their success, and they'll start playing the right way.

Logic.

NovaParadigm

#72

NovaParadigm said:

I'm okay with people using glitches in online multiplayer. I think MK7 handled this pretty well, with a number of communities available to people who want to play honestly. What I find unfair and frustrating are hackers. If a glitch is in a game already and is available to everyone, it's fine. But if you have to download hacking software or program a cheatcode yourself, that's just disrespectful.

cnm_nintendo

#73

cnm_nintendo said:

My VR rating is now 6700 something and I've noticed that more and more people are choosing Maka Wuhu for obvious reasons. However in regards to the glitch, I've noticed that EVERYONE USES IT. So these other people may not choose the course but when it gets chosen they would still use it. Some may be really against the use of the glitch because it's an unfair advantage... However is it really an advantage if EVERYONE uses it? I myself feel compelled to use it because it makes me mad that everyone has to use it. But if I'm playing with people I know then I would not use the glitch. That's my stance... :(

Capt_N

#74

Capt_N said:

I am still going to resist using this glitch. I didn't even know it existed, until I read about it here. The Wuhu tracks are some of my favs. Also, I added my 3DS FC, & my own MK7 community code to my NLife user profile. Anybody who adds me, just tell me, & I'll add you. :)

Vincent294

#75

Vincent294 said:

@Mr_Trill3506 You cheat? Well, if you take them online, be prepared to be hated, and with good reasoning. Exploits are fair online and offline. The only one I have a problem w/ is Maka Wuhu. I have to do it if I want to have a chance. And I like that course just the way it was intended to be. Cheating in single-player's okay. I don't like cheaters online. My Goldeneye 007 user name is CheatersSuck. One guy had his sniper aimed at a wall and fired it. Three bullets came out and auto-targeted me and all my teammate's heads. We all died. One guy was behind a wall. The only cheat online that I'm okay with is this: everyone on both sides has infinite ammo, double health, and auto-reload. Tip:

  • On Luigi's Mansion DS, do a time trial. By the entrance to the mansion, aim your kart at a ridge. Use a mushroom boost, and watch yourself fly. (Note: this does not work on MK7). Aim yourself better, and you can fly anywhere in sight.
Vincent294

#76

Vincent294 said:

How is all that stuff I listed? It's madness. Hilarious stuff. See Funniest Glitches for how to enter the "Magical Crate" (or glitchy) on Goldeneye and more.

Shirma_Akayaku

#77

Shirma_Akayaku said:

I think if a glitch is clearly, absolutely, do-able then you should take the glitch. a made up example: say you're playing a new racing/Mario Kart game and in the game a race track has a glitch. the glitch is simply fall off bridge. how to preform glitch - you start on a straight road then you go around the hairpin turn, 90 degree left. next, a small wooden bridge shows up, fall off bridge and you'll re-spawn just in front of the bridge on the "second lap". if you were to repeat this 3 times, you'd complete the track in under 15 seconds

NTELLIGENTMAN

#78

NTELLIGENTMAN said:

Using gltiches that are left in the game after extensive testing is not cheating. Cheating is using a separate device to hack the game is cheating. Using Game Genie is cheating. Earning a bunch of 1-Ups is not cheating. Using Game Shark is cheating. Warping from the ground to the top of Lara Croft's manor is not cheating. Using Action Replay is cheating. Standing on top of cars in Saints Row 2 and warping inside is not cheating.

StuffyStuff

#79

StuffyStuff said:

Cheating in racing games should never be tolerated as the course is designed a specific way. You don't see F-1 racers cutting across the grass to get to the other side. If you're playing "competitively", there should be an honor system in place. The glitch in Goldeneye where you can climb up in the vent should only be used if the person up there is camping out. Cowardly acts deserve dirty reprecussions. You shouldn't be able to claim you beat Contra if you used the code. That's not cheating, but it's like saying you won a foot race with a six year old.

castor

#80

castor said:

The point I tried to reach was: the glitch screws the track's beauty up, so I have to downgrade to their newbie annoying cheating level to compete them.

Dashtag

#81

Dashtag said:

I'd sy it is fair in some situations, really, who was hurt by World -1? No one. It doesn't ruin the game, and it is actually sorta cool how that happened. What about MK7? Pure cheating there, though, especially on online play. People are so immature, even when I do it. I only do it so I don't look bad. But really, people, if it is an online glitch that ruins people's scores and experience, don't do it. If you want to do a small innocent glitch like completing Wuhu Loop in like .3 seconds, only you are negatively affected. Also, maybe you want to do, say, waluigi pinball. Guess what? Chances are already against you, increased by the fact of boredom, EVERYONE WANTS TO DO MAKA WUHU IT GETS BORING AND THAT'S A TRUE CHEAT. But, say, World -1, or anything that doesnt affect anyone, is ok. Now, if you are a semi-cheater, infinite 1-ups is OK. Not great, not horrid.

(Btw how the heck did anyone figure out the world -1 glitch? Not in a billion years could I figure that one out.some glitches are just like impossible to figure out how they figured them out, like the Coconut mall parking lot glitch, seriously, I can't even do the glitch on my Wii, so how was it discovered? Seriously?)

RoryLee

#82

RoryLee said:

@MrTrill
Cheat to win? I hope those words come back to bite you in the bad word. People like you ruin the fun and competitiveness of online games.

Knuckles

#83

Knuckles said:

So let me get this straight, on MK7 online it is fair to cheat because everyone else does it to win, (still wont feel right to me) in the NL communities it is outlawed? I honestly dont want to cheat to win online, but if someone pulls that cheat then we can put there gamertag to shame. Correct? By the way i usually dont cheat in ANY game. I dont even own mario kart 7 yet...

theblackdragonAdmin

#84

theblackdragon said:

@K-C: absolutely name and shame the hell out of 'em if they're cheating in the Nintendo Life communities! no one here at NL wants to race with a cheater; that's not something we condone here at Nintendo Life in the slightest. we can't control what people do outside our communities, though, and there's so many randoms out there it's kinda pointless to attempt to name and shame (this guy here) in (this other community that may actually be okay with people glitching), or worse yet, the melting pot that is Worldwide, y'know? Just be careful in WW, and if you wind up with a group of wuhu glitchers, just quit and find another group as quick as you can. :3

LittleKing

#85

LittleKing said:

I believe I've been over this with you before, and I don't find what you're saying amusing in the slightest. Knock it off please — TBD

armoredghor

#86

armoredghor said:

I don't think it matters whether it's developer designed or an utter glitch; as long as its not massive. I haven't actually seen the glitch everyone is talking about but it reminds me of the shortcut on wario stadium in mario kart 64 - a 20 second lap. There was also a glitch ( I heard it was a glitch) in mario kart double dash! for the gamecube that let you dodge red shells if you released a miniboost from a turn at the right time- a 3-5 second glitch. As long as it's low reward, who cares. These massive shortcuts though destroy it for the rest of the players.

JGMR

#87

JGMR said:

I like the way Ocarina Of Time 3D was handled, because they left the original glitches in on purpose.

SMW

#88

SMW said:

I say if it doesn't affect anyone else, then its alright. I admit that I was a big user of Game Genie, GameShark and Action Replay, but all for singleplayer games. I would never hack an online game.

Using tricks and secrets online are fine, but abusing glitches or hacking an online game is obviously not cool.

Using glitches in singleplayer games should be alright since you aren't affecting anyone else. An example is how players could duplicate items in Disgaea 4 by abusing a glitch with the inventory/shop system. This was fixed in a patch, but some people just avoided the patch. (Including me.) :P I see no problem with it since Disgaea is a singleplayer game.

About the Wuhu glitch, I'd avoid using it if I had the game. The only MK shortcut that I can think of using occasionally is the DK Mountain cliff-jumping one, which isn't that much of a shortcut.

Vincent294

#89

Vincent294 said:

I only use the Maka Wuhu glitch because I have to to win. I don't want to lose VR. Lets look in to making a anti-Maka Wuhu glitch community, so we can enjoy the course as it was meant to be.
@Mr_Trill3506 I don't want to hate, but I have a slight distaste for the cheaters who bring their cheats online. As for it being part of being a gamer...I don't agree. Well, that's if you meant an honest-to-good gamer who plays fair and harbors good sportsmanship. I'm an honest-to-good gamer. You might debate it, I use exploits. On Goldeneye, I've demonstrated how to do exploits for people on either side. The only problem: the one guy who opens fire.

TimboBaggins

#91

TimboBaggins said:

I could care less about the Mario Kart 7 glitch, that just means you played it long enough to find the loop hole. I would care in an FPS if someone uses a code to make themselves invincible though, thats BS. Back in the day my friends and I would compete over who could find the most cheat codes for Mortal Kombat III - we felt like gods when we could pull off one button fatalities

FantasiaWHT

#92

FantasiaWHT said:

"If a professional tester finds it necessary to use a code to play through a particularly tough game, then where’s the harm in that?"

But professional testers use intentionally-placed codes in order to make it easier to test what it is they are trying to test at the moment. Testers don't (often) just play through the game trying to beat it.

eviLaTtenDant

#93

eviLaTtenDant said:

I consulted my pillow and it gave me a religious epiphany. I hereby proclaim the meaning of this „glitch“ as all worthless heathens call it in their horrendous lack of belief.
Our inerrable Lord Nintendo sends us this sign to raise our grateful awareness of one of his finest creations. Lemmings. Brothers and sisters in spirit, spread the word, praise our Lord !

Dodger

#94

Dodger said:

@Giratina6

I didn't find that it ruined MK DS, I enjoyed it for a long time and my sister has my copy now. You learn to find the signs. If somebody chooses Luigi and then chooses a character name as a stage then they'll be cheating and you can leave the group or whatever.

With the Skyward Sword glitch, it was something that nobody could of seen coming. They spent 5 years on the game and missed something that was really hard to find. With Mario Kart, this has happened before, just not at this level. Somebody should of noticed this.

GamerforGod

#96

GamerforGod said:

I feel that taking advantage of glitches, not necessarily cheat codes, for the most part is fine. Both glitches and cheat codes are perfectly acceptable when playing alone for sure, though both of them (especially cheat codes) seem to take a lot of fun out of the experience that the game has to offer if it is your first time to play through the game. This also brings us to the subject of video game walk-throughs. Is it cheating or is it wrong to use them to beat your way through a game? My personal philosophy on video game walk-throughs is that it is definitely not cheating or wrong to use them, but I think that they should be used as little as possible. When I play a video game, I try to do as much as I possibly can without using a walk-through. But if I simply get absolutely stuck somewhere, I will consult a walk-through for that particular section of the game rather than running in circles and accomplishing nothing for two more hours. I feel that glitches and cheat codes are also best used for after the games completion to have some extra fun.
But, the really sticky part of this whole debate is whether or not glitches and cheat codes should be used when playing in online multi-player games (or just a multi-player game in general for that matter). I would have to say that cheat codes and glitches should pretty much not be used at all during multiplayer, whether online or local. Cheat codes are pretty much a definite no. I mean, if everyone had full access to the cheat codes, then it might be a little bit better, but at that point, you aren't really playing the game that the developers designed anymore. I can't even remember all of the times I played the original Mario Kart DS's online multiplayer only for there to be seven drivers all driving about two miles an hour to make sure that they stayed behind the guy using the Pro-Action Replay card to give himself unlimited Spiky, Blue Turtle Shells and Lightning Bolts. It was fun to pass that guy in the last two seconds of the race and win, but it was really annoying to have to stay right behind him the whole race!!!!
But, unlike cheat codes, I find glitches in multi-player to be a slightly different story. Ninety percent of the time I would say that they should not be used at all in multi-player because they are generally so game breaking that there is no fun to be had except for by that one guy who was using them (I'm looking at you guy with unlimited Spiky Blue Turtle Shells and Lightning Bolts). However, I feel that there are a few glitches where an exception can be made. There are a few glitches that I think can actually add to the multi-player experience. Namely, the glitch that I'm thinking of is wave-dashing from Super Smash Bros. Melee. Is it a glitch? Yes. Is it game-breaking to the experience of your friends who are going to play with you? No. Wave-dashing does give you an advantage if you REALLY know how to use it well, but it's such a subtle advantage. I wave dash a very little bit myself, but I've beaten people who wave dash a lot, and I've been beaten by people who don't wave dash at all. :) So I think wave-dashing is an example of a glitch that would be acceptable to use when playing with other people. It actually takes skill to accomplish, and it isn't a game-breaking experience for the other people who you are playing with. There is still a good chance that they could beat you. But, a glitch like wave-dashing is the exception and not the rule for sure. For the most part I believe that glitches and cheat codes should be avoided at almost all costs when playing against other people.

lonlon-milker

#97

lonlon-milker said:

Speaking o glitches a really easy infinite 1up glitch in sm3dl is in world two with the think before you jump platforms. Near he beginning of the level when you get the tanookie tail go to the goomba spawn and the goombas will just go under you when you fly in the air.

lonlon-milker

#98

lonlon-milker said:

Speaking o glitches a really easy infinite 1up glitch in sm3dl is in world two with the think before you jump platforms. Near he beginning of the level when you get the tanookie tail go to the goomba spawn and the goombas will just go under you when you fly in the air. However I think cheats are only good after you master a game and only then.

ToastyYogurt

#99

ToastyYogurt said:

Cheating in single player games is fine, because it's only you who's playing. But cheating in multiplayer is just plain wrong (unless everybody gets the cheat just for kicks and giggles, i.e. making all cars go super fast), because you're getting an advantage over honest players. If you cheat in multiplayer, you're just saying you're not good enough to win with pure skill, in which case you should be practicing instead of utilising glitches and busting out your Action Replay.

Also, I used to cheat in Single Player only, but I don't do that anymore because I realised that most of the fun of the game is taken out when all of your Pokemon are level 100.

Nintonic

#100

Nintonic said:

Wait what? Super Mario Bros secrets are NOT glitches, they are put there
on purpose just like you said, I wouldn't even call them cheats! There is only one type of glitch which is not placed purposely.

Demonic_St33V

#101

Demonic_St33V said:

Some "cheats" aren't actually cheats, but left over tools from the games QA process, like ABBACAB for Shadowrun on the Sega Genesis. This code would allow testers to rapidly test different aspects of the game by directly modifying their characters.

Nintenzo

#102

Nintenzo said:

I personally think that it's not cheating because it's the fault of the developers. Sure, it's morally wrong on many levels (no pun intended), but I don't think that it's cheating.

From Wikipedia, "Cheating"
"Generally speaking, there is often some concern that this is not truly cheating, as it is the fault of the programmers that such an exploit exists in the first place. However, technically, as with live sports, it is cheating if the player is not playing the game in a formally approved manner, breaking unwritten rules. In some cases, this behavior is directly prohibited by the Terms of Service of the game."

Using an Action Replay or a similar device is cheating.

Here's what I think. Say two people are fencing. If one person finds a fault in their opponent's footwork or bladework, and takes advantage of that to cut off his arm, is that cheating?

Jahir

#103

Jahir said:

Man, my first time in Mario Kart 7 online and someone used the Maka Wuhu glitch -.- I was second place because of that.

I used cheats long time ago, it was kind of fun in Age of Empires II, but then it became boring and I stopped using them. On multiplayer (online or local), it can be a little frustrating. Just people with no confidence on his/her skills use them... and losers, of course. :)

Shotgunryugan

#104

Shotgunryugan said:

If it's for offline gaming then i think they're ok.

But if it's for online,then no,it just ruins the fun for everyone,i remember the cheaters in Mario Kart Wii,they were just awful.

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