News Article

Lumines Dev Not Impressed With 3DS

Posted by Damien McFerran

Twitter-based outburst pours cold water on Nintendo handheld's chances

Q Entertainment's James Mielke has tweeted regarding the recent announcement of the Nintendo 3DS, and what he had to say doesn't sound too positive from where we're sitting.

Mielke used the popular social networking portal to state that he believes the 3DS will be 'impossible for anyone other than Nintendo to make money on'.

He also pointed out the fact that because the machine looks set to use RAM-based carts, it would fail to find favour with long-suffering third-party publishers who have so far struggled to make Nintendo-sized profits on the existing DS hardware. It would seem his belly-aching is more to do with the fact that he works for a leading handheld developer (Q Entertainment is the studio behind the excellent Lumines and Meteos series) rather than his opinion of the device itself; though the hardware may be excellent, developers may struggle to compete.

It wasn't all bad though – Mielke added that there will most likely be massive demand for the machine at launch. You heard it here first, folks.

[via pocketgamer.co.uk]

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User Comments (65)

The_Fox

#1

The_Fox said:

I'm waiting to see Nintendo fanboys prematurely leap to the systems defense after this story. They know next to nothing about it, but that won't stop them.

irken004

#2

irken004 said:

"it would fail to find favour with long-suffering third-party publishers who have so far struggled to make Nintendo-sized profits on the existing DS hardware."

.... Less shovelware during the first couple years of release??? Hurrah! :D

Tizoc

#4

Tizoc said:

@TheFox: There is no need for defending anything. No one has more than rumors at the moment. Let's wait for E3 before we judging anything at all.

TwilightV

#6

TwilightV said:

I believe I recall another third party stating the development kits were the easiest things they ever had to work with... (:/

Looking forward to seeing this thing in action. :)

jer18

#8

jer18 said:

Ha, I downloaded this game on my old LG flip phone (released Q2 2006). The game looks MUCH better and visually inviting on the mobile version.

pixelman

#11

pixelman said:

Some random developer is whining about a system that hasn't even been shown yet, and the details of said system are scarce at that.

Brilliant!

CheifThunder

#12

CheifThunder said:

heres a few games i think would work.
Tetris/multilayed stacking.
Luigis Mansion.
Starfox/Asteroid field and warp tunnel or hyper space battles.
Pokemon.
Lemmings.
Nintendo dogs.
Starwars rouge squadron/rebel strike.

ejamer

#13

ejamer said:

"I'm waiting to see Nintendo fanboys prematurely leap to the systems defense after this story. They know next to nothing about it, but that won't stop them."

Hmm... but it's reasonable for developers to claim that nobody except Nintendo will profit from a system that isn't anywhere close to being on the market? That assumption definitely might end up being true, but is far from a fact at this point and a rather silly claim to hang your hat on.

Kirk

#14

Kirk said:

Anyone who is seriously being negative about the newly announced 3DS at this stage is a bit of a tool in my humble opinion.

Donatello

#15

Donatello said:

So basically low end 3rd Party developers who mostly make shovelware for the most part are going to be somewhat screwed, sound good to me! :D

Kid_A

#17

Kid_A said:

If that means 3rd Parties are going to have to push themselves to make money, I think that's a damn good thing. But as Kirk said, we know absolutely nothing about it (we don't even know what they mean by 3D) so it's a bit silly to jump to any sort of conclusions at this point.

V8_Ninja

#18

V8_Ninja said:

He does have a good point there. 3D is still very early technology, and the fact that you don't need glasses for the 3D to work will question some of the leaders of CGI, and maybe even Pixar. But so far most (non-minigame-making) third parties have succeeded with games on the Gameboy/DS platforms, so this opinion is questionable.

mushroomer

#19

mushroomer said:

3D is also sort of gimmicky. Its an effect and it will only last as long as you are amazed by it. Other than that, they really need to rethink gaming and innovate to be able to push games on me. I mean if they slap mario on it, it'l do well but if EA came out with Tiger Woods 3D , dont expect me to be in line waiting for that.
The 3D will probably be similar to that japanese game where the camera senses your movements and reflects that in the view. I guess if they had a lcd that projected 2 images based on the average distance a player's face is from the screen, then you could also create an illusion that objects are sticking out in front of the screen but my question is, HOW will this make developers rethink gaming? is it just FX ? or is it actually a major game play element?

DJ_Triforce

#20

DJ_Triforce said:

Get with the times, James Mielke. I could care less whether it's first party or third party developed. I'm no fan boy... I just want to play good games. Whoever makes it first and best gets my buck.

shinigami_tidus

#21

shinigami_tidus said:

Bad opinion...
they could release a Lumines on DS or Wii and then they will see how much money they made...

Thomas_Joseph

#22

Thomas_Joseph said:

He also pointed out the fact that because the machine looks set to use RAM-based carts ...

Uh, dude ... it's called 3DSiWare. Skip the cart altogether.

brandonbwii

#24

brandonbwii said:

One thing that is true, the current DS line IS missing some of the 3rd party support it had since launch. I personally don't know why that is. I just don't think Nintendo can win over every developer I suppose.

bowsersenemy

#25

bowsersenemy said:

i'm a nintendo fanboy, and i wouldn't defend this piece of trash for nothing. nintendo's got me pretty ticked right now. they're not producing too many good games, and the companies that normaly do, aren't making them for the wii anymore. and on top of it, this? i mean, last year we got the DSi. this year, we get the DSi XL. and next year, they'll both be obsolete due to the 3DS? pardon my sparta, but this is MADNESS! if i'd known the DSi XL was coming, i'd have held out for it. and now that i know the 3DS is coming, and that it's the next gen DS, it had better have screens at least as big as the XL's, or i won't buy it. for that matter, there's not too much on the DS i like right now as it is, so unless they wow me, i won't be getting the 3DS at all.

i've been with nintendo since the NES, and it pains me to see them stoop to such a level. they're pulling a sega here. too many systems, too fast, and not enough good games on them to warrant the purchase of each one.

bowsersenemy

#26

bowsersenemy said:

i made a mistake in my last post. most 3rd party companies aren't producing good games on the wii OR ds. that's one of the things that have me so ticked.

MasterGraveheart

#27

MasterGraveheart said:

@The_Fox: Wish granted! :)

OHMIGOSH THIS IS THE GREATEST SYSTEM I'VE EVER HEARD OF IN MEH LIVEZ! ALL FOUR OV DEMZ! SCREW YOU, LUMINES GUY! WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU ARE, SOME DEWD WHO WORKS ON HANDHELDZ? GO BACKZ TO LATVERIA!

lol, sorry. But in all honesty, I like the idea of the 3DS. I think there is plenty of options and if it has GameCube power as it is rumored, it could be pretty fantastic. Still, I hope that this'll let us carry over our DSiWare purchases somehow, some way... same for whatever the Wii successor is. THAT is my big concern at the moment.

Percentful

#28

Percentful said:

@bowsersenemy you are a typical nintendo fanboy. Complain about nintendo, but the system, keep complaining, defend the system, complain about new system, buy new system, and so on and so on.

Token_Girl

#29

Token_Girl said:

Gamecube Power, optional 3D (I'm guessing 2 dollar DSiWare/3DSWare puzzlers, Cooking Mama 10 and such will still be 2d), analog, accelerometer, and touch screen controls. 3'd parties have had success on the DS (if not the Wii as much), so I don't see why that wouldn't carry over.

What more do you want Mr. Dev man? There's so much versatility to create any game you want, do something unique and stand out, or cater to an existing market. Yes, you will have to compete with Mario, just like on PSP you'll have to compete with Ratchet and Clank and LBP, and on Xbox you have to compete with Halo.

3rd parties need to stop measuring their success against big budget 1st party franchises. Most of the games released by 3rd parties are cheaper and smaller, but can still be great games. I mean, one more in a series of puzzle games, even a very stand out puzzler, is just not going to stand out next to the next gen 3D big franchise (and doesn't need to sell NEARLY as many copies to make a profit).

JebbyDeringer

#30

JebbyDeringer said:

All the DS revisions are basically the same system they have just improved it over time much like the original Gameboy and even the Gameboy Advance. They have always done this with portables while the home consoles have stayed relatively stagnant. There's nothing wrong with the DS and it's been an incredibly popular system surpassing the Gameboy Advance in years of active support.

I don't know how Nintendo is going to pull it off, and which way they are going to go with it perhaps eye tracking. You would think they would design a system from the ground up but Nintendo is all about backwards compatibility so perhaps it will be much like the DS.

Slapshot

#32

Slapshot said:

@token girl..... your exactly right, 3rd party games Do have a very big problem competing with 1st party. Third party devs lack the funding to create big budget games so they have to be really creative to survive. I'm a massivesupporter of 3rd party and they are struggling bad right now with the bad economy. If they struggle in Dev for 3rd that's not a good thing, that was the reason ps3 lacked games until now. Creating for 3rd could be a massive risk for companies today, as well for move,natal. They obviously have had the Dec kits prior to this statement, and they are.a Dang good Dec as meteos was incredible as well as lumines.

DarkLloyd

#33

DarkLloyd said:

lol haterade, anyways im looking forward to the new handheld from nintendo something about getting new consoles/handhelds excite me so much

Mahe

#34

Mahe said:

Hiiiiiiiiiiilarious! Keep 'em coming, Nintendolife!

But Mielke isn't really a Lumines developer, he's only been hired there recently and he isn't even a developer, just a marketing guy. Thought I'd point that out.

Caliko

#35

Caliko said:

@The Fox

What a hypocritical posting.

The developer has no more right than a fanboy to make assumptions about a product far from being released.

Saber

#36

Saber said:

thats because the idea sucks!

I never bought a dsi or dsxl or whatever its called because they simply play the same things as the original fat Ds did.

Dsiware is radished, and I don't see myself spending 200 dollars on a new system that has the same thing as the old one :)

If this does happen to come out good over the next 3 yrs or so then I will purchase this "3ds", of course after it drops in price ;)

Cia

#37

Cia said:

"most 3rd party companies aren't producing good games on the wii OR ds"

what about wii exclusives "the last story, xenoblade, dragon quest x, red steel 2 and no more heroes 2? They are all made by different 3rd parties. This will be the best year ever for wii, for my opinion

jangonov

#38

jangonov said:

@chiefthunder, I agree. Rouge Squadron would be amazing on there, even if they just made the 64 version to be 3-D (beyond the models of the X-wings and and tie-fighters) I hope that they make VC games transferable to the 3DS, or at the very least, make a handheld virtual console. So many good gameboy games need batteries to play, and short of cracking the case, you can not replace them. I want a digital version. If they just so happen to add the current VC to it as well, then it will be even better.

The_Fox

#39

The_Fox said:

@Mastergraveheart:
Nice! :)
That pretty much sums up what you would expect to see on some of those other sites.

@Caliko
Not really hypocritical, as I never said I approved of him making such early predictions.

Hardy83

#40

Hardy83 said:

To be honest even Nintendo game don't sell was well anymore on the DS let alone 3rd parties.

I mean the new Zelda probably sold around a million, which is good, but not Nintendo good.

I would assume it's a mix of the market just being abolutely flooded with games good and bad, piracy and just lack of interest for the system.
His complaints lay with his experience as a developer for the DS. He's staying it'll be the same if Nintendo does some things... Well I imagine 3rd parties will make money in the beginning, but like DS and Wii after a few years it'll be the same thing over again.

AVahne

#41

AVahne said:

No one believed in the DS, but looky now.

I'll support this system, Nintendo does crazy things and the only bad idea i could think of was the virtual boy(too early for 3D gaming) and the weakening of the Nintendo Seal of Quality

TKOWL

#44

TKOWL said:

Funny, I remember people having the same responce when the DS was first unveiled.

Ahiru77

#45

Ahiru77 said:

The 3d is gonna rock so much. Its like something i would have expected from the others first, but hey Nintendo will always be topgun!!

Slapshot

#47

Slapshot said:

@ fox... considering they obviously are trying to develop on the system I think the have a really good reason to comment. They know way more than any of us here, so I agree with u.

touffeboy

#48

touffeboy said:

If this New DS had news games for the system and a better hardware (Update at 2010 ) with Nvidia and a good processor i'm happy :D

BlueFlameBat

#49

BlueFlameBat said:

Am I missing something here or are people making snap judgments about something they haven't even seen yet?

Zork2

#50

Zork2 said:

He's right of course. Memory cartridges are a big economic drag for everyone but Nintendo. How much of that $30 price tag is eaten by inventory, manufacturing, and transportation costs? For small titles it's a lot. Bring on the downloads please! We'll get a better selection of games for lower prices, although the competition may be fierce.

TJ_Spyke

#52

TJ_Spyke said:

The Fox, this moron is being all negative on the 3DS despite the fact that he knows nothing more than the rest of us (which is almost nothing). It's like commenting on the quality of a movie that won't come out for 2 years.

Hardy83, The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks (the most recent Zelda game) sold a LOT more than just 1 million. The game sold 2.45 million copies just in 2009, that is a great number for any company.

Token_Girl

#53

Token_Girl said:

@Zork2

The thing is, this dev mostly makes puzzle games. How many puzzle games are really going to be released on memory cards and in 3D and how many will be downloadable titles and 2D? If they want to stand out downloadable and 3D would be the way to go (assuming Ninty actually puts a real hard drive in the system and gets rid of ridiculous file size limits).

He probably knows more about the types of games being developed he'd be competing with and what Ninty's planning for their online system though. If the online isn't improved from DSiWare, it'd be totally reasonable that he'd be ticked about cards. (Although what other physical media option is there for portables? Cuz UMD's were sooooooo~ popular).

Objection

#54

Objection said:

A pretty safe comment really. Many third-party developers don't do well on ANY Nintendo platform. That's just how it's been for a while.

Slapshot

#55

Slapshot said:

@token.. umd actually have gotten better to dev on as seen with final fantasy dissidia. Beautiful graphics, fast gameplay and huge game with very little loading. Sony screwed up with trying to put movies on umd. Carts do seem to be a better Option for DS but my guess is we. Will see the small Gamecube disc return for 3rd because I doubt gamecube games will fit on a cart and run properly.

JimLad

#56

JimLad said:

I think a big part of the reason they don't do well on Nintendo systems, isn't because they are making shovelware, but because they are surrounded by shovelware.
The first party games rise above it because they are part of a recognizable brand.
Also, they're making puzzle games. Puzzle games are a NICHE market, you will never make 'Nintendo sized profits' with puzzle games.

On the question of carts: I get the feeling 3DS will expand on the DSiWare service, so any studios stuggling to compete should consider this.

Token_Girl

#57

Token_Girl said:

@Slappy

If the he's complaining about carts, I'm guessing it's because that's what Ninty's planning on using.

The solution to the problem is a better downloadable service and effective marketing for said service.

yoshdude64

#58

yoshdude64 said:

I don't care if only Ninty makes games for it! :D That shouldn't be to bad, and the people that are already successful on the DS are sure to try this. But at least we know people are making software for the 3DS! :D EXITED!

bowsersenemy

#59

bowsersenemy said:

@110percentful yeah. i'm a nintendo fanboy, and i think i admited that, but even fanboys can get tired of something. if nintendo keeps this up, i'll turn into a sony fanboy. it's got me that ticked. and yeah, i'll admit, when i first heard the idea of the ds, it sounded like garbage. and now that it's had time to flesh itself out, it's even MORE garbage than i first thought. i mean, it's got a few gems, like the mega man zero collection, NSMB, both zelda games, the mega man ZX games, and so on, but for the life of me, i don't understand why garbage games like the entire Imagine series came to be! and, while both zelda games were good, the touch screen kinda ruined it. i mean, it's anoying for me. it would have been better if they allowed you to chose, but when they take that choice from you, that's just plain wrong. they let you have the choice in SM64DS and ACWW, but why not zelda? because nintendo want's to run with the gimick as much as they can and milk it for all they think it's worth. you know, i only own 9 wii games, not counting wii ware and VC. and most of them are compatible with GCN controls or classic controller, because i can't stand the wii's motion sensing gimmick. when nintendo decided to go more for the casual gamer, that's when i started losing interest. i'm a core gamer, and i won't be forced to play casual games as a main source of gaming!

bro2dragons

#60

bro2dragons said:

well i'm really not worried about it. it's crazy new technology, so i can see why he'd be scared, but if there were no chance of devs making money off the thing, Ninty wouldn't put it out. if third parties aren't making games for it, it won't sell past the first few months. and then the tech will be available for other companies to build their own version of and the whole thing will just die. it will take a little while, sure, just like it did with the DS and with the Wii, but when this thing gets rolling, it's gonna be an incredible machine.

bowsersenemy

#62

bowsersenemy said:

incredible machine? more like an incredible mess. the only way i could see myself buying it, is if it has good games. i'm talking about mario and zelda games that are worth playing, like the current ones are (but i still hate touch screen only controls. dumb move N) and strong 3rd party support like capcom, konami, atari, etc. if it ain't got games, it ain't worth crap. so for it to go anywhere, the screens should be as big as the DSi XL's or bigger, and it should be stronger, so that any slowdown from current games would be virtualy fixed, that way, if it DOESN'T have good games, it will still at least be worth getting to improve the current DS's games. but the 3D gimmick's just plain garbage. i predict it will just end up like Wii controls in twilight princess. just tacked on. 3D used to be a fad. and if they're going to realy do this, i hope for thier sake, they do it right. i mean, the current DS has the touch screen gimmick, and doing that allowed for alot of garbage games, and the games that had potential for it, ended up getting butchered, or didn't use it to the full extent. the wii was the same way. motion control allowed for even more garbage casual games. the 3DS is going to use the 3D gimmick to it's effect, if it can even get support, and what are we going to see? well, remember those out of place "3D scenes" in movies, where they make stuff come close to the screen to make it feel like it's coming at you? well, imagine that in a game. or worse, as a gameplay element. i could see it now. a mini game where you have to touch things in the water, and you see 3D ripples, and the more ripples you cause, the higher your score. and the worst part, would be that you paid money for this. even worse, if it's a downloadable game, you can't sell it after you realise how bad a game it is!

taps

#64

taps said:

Originally stated by: KDR_11k:

"This is a cheap shot but...
What do you expect from a Mielke?"

My thoughts exactly. I've been watching this guy troll since his FF IX review for EGM in 2000. In the dev community it seems like people either have to love or hate Nintendo games/hardware, I don't know why some of them can't just calm down and accept the games for what they are. He's more of an opinionated journalist than a dev IMO and seems to be taking his association with 'Q' as an opportunity to flame Ninty on tired 15 year old topics like cart space

When I read the headline I was expecting disappointing takes on the 3DS from the talented Tetsuya Mizuguchi. Instead, I got some knee-jerk from columnist-at-large and VF4 fan MIlky.

Token_Girl

#65

Token_Girl said:

@bowsersenemy

The type of 3d tech used here isn't what's used to make gimmicky 3d movies at amusement parks. It's closer to what was used in avatar, so things aren't going to be popping out of the screen at you. I don't even think that would be possible to render with this type of tech.

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