Topic: Sonic 4 Complaints?

They say the animation in the trailer wasn't his top speed.

Also, someone found something on the site that might indicate four areas in Sonic 4: Ep. 1. If each area has three stages, that would be a total of 12 (or 8 if it's 2...).

None whatsoever.

Man, why is everyone complaining already? it hasn't even come out yet, and there's barely any details about it.

#1. A 2D Mario game is almost NOTHING like a Sonic game. Mario was meant to be a tricky platformer. Sonic was meant to be a game that showed off what Sega's processing unit could do compared to Nintendo's. You can't really compare two game series that aren't even meant to be compared, especially when one was just meant to show off hardware.

#2. While you do have to pay attention to what's in front of you in a Sonic game, you're going so fast that it's hard to see what's in front of you until A) it's stopped you dead in your tracks/messed you up or B) you already know it's going to be there. What's this type of game mechanic similar to? Quick time events, which is the worst idea ever invented.

#3. The only semblance of strategy is during the Bonus Stages, which is also just memorization over anything else (I don't count boss battles because they mostly involve the "Dodge, Attack, Repeat" method).

#4. Personal Opinion. Do I have to make it more clear to you?

Thank god for that. I'm seriously pumped for Sonic 4. If any classic platforming hero needed an old-school reboot, it's this one.

@V8Ninja You aren't always running at full speed in a classic Sonic game. There's a lot of slower sections and tricky platforming, too. Try playing Marble Zone in Sonic 1, for example. Also, most of the times when you are going full speed, it's pretty safe to do so, and there's usually a way designed to get you to slow down or stop safely when you need to do so for the next slow section.

By the way, Mr. Pinguy wasn't comparing Sonic and Mario games diectly. He was comparing the level of dumbing down that you did. He was simply stating that dumbing down Sonic gameplay like you did is comparable to dumbing down Mario gameplay to something like run/walk right and jump the whole time.

None right now. But Spax3 actually made an DeviantART page complaining about the design.

@Bulbasaurus_Rex A few facts before we go on;

#1. This thing that you would call "Nostalgia" doesn't affect me at all. The most nostalgic games for me are Super Mario 64 and Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, and those kinda pushing the limits.

#2. The Metacritic average for 2D Sonic games that were made after the year 2000 are as follows: 87 for Sonic Advance, 83 for Sonic Advance 2, and 82 for Sonic Rush. That basically translates to Sonic Advance = pretty good, Sonic Advance 2 = good, and Sonic Rush = good but there are minor flaws. No other 2D Sonic games have gotten in the Metacritic 80s range.

#3. PERSONAL OPINION. How long am I gonna have to shove this down someone's throat?

The only thing that kept Sonic alive was nostalgia and the younger generation's denial to see what the games actually were through the 21 ^st century. As I mentioned before, nostalgia doesn't have any affect on me at all, so I was basically uncaring for Sonic in general. I saw what the games actually were; they were experiments from Sega to attempt to make something that they decided at first was not going to be long term become long term. And in a way they succeeded, but not in a way that resulted in good video games.

As for the Mario-Sonic comparison, the old Sonic games did have platforming sections and I'm extremely sorry. But if we were to look at this situation from the important standpoint (NOW, as in this current day), Sonic is just running and jumping. It only looks like more than that because there's loops, upside down sections, and rails.

I didn't say anything about nostalgia or your personal opinion. I was just correcting the facts about Sonic's 2D gameplay (which is still a lot more than just running and jumping even by today's standards). If you still don't believe me, I present a link to a Youtube (no, not the one Guybrush gets in Tales of Monkey Island, Chapter 1) video of a playthrough of Marble Zone, Act 3 from the original Sonic the Hedgehog. Yes, this act is an extreme example, but there is plenty of similar platforming throughout the 2D games. It's just fine if you don't like that kind of gameplay (I don't like Zelda gameplay), but I can't let you get away with dumbing down the gameplay like that.

Those Metacritic scores are great. Keep in mind that 50 is considered average for most reviewers when translated to a 100 point scale. The only other 2D Sonic games that were made recently enough for Metacritic (other than the terrible GBA port of the first Sonic game) are Sonic Advance 3 (79) and Sonic Rush Adventure (78), also great scores. If Metacritic were to go back far enough for the classic 16 bit 2D Sonic platformers, they'd score at least as well. In fact, this very website gave the first three games scores of 8, 9, and 8 respectively when they came to Virtual Console, and they always take into account how well the VC games have aged.

Wow, this makes the controversy over Cave Story's redesigned art style look legit.

Easy now pal, it's not an personal attack nor to you or Mario franchise, did you read what I said?
I didn't even compared Sonic with Mario and I didn't even attack Mario.
I said that your claim was like saying the same thing to Mario, just to showing off why is so closed minded to put both games, Mario and (Classic) Sonic in an simple formula as if that worked.

And about PERSONAL OPINION you said, an good opinion it's an well constructed one, negative or not, however nowadays opinion is an good excuse for not trying to look at things unbasied and look for facts. You don't need to know what's in your front to pass an Good Sonic game (and I'm not talking about Advance or Rush series, the level design there is flawed, not bad as others but still flawed), it's based on skill of reaction and fast thinking about the next action you're about to take, you're not feeling secure about that, not an problem, slow down a bit, the keyword of an good Sonic game is not "Speed" as some people think, it's "Momentum". (Remeber, speaking about the good sonic games, not bottomless pit infested ones without even proper platforms to pass it, for example.)

And for the record, for anyone have doubt's about that, I don't hate Mario, I love Mario, and I will love for many years.

And now yes I'm going compare, about the "strategy" you told about, both Mario and (GOOD) Sonic games, are in the same level, to find the better way to approach an platform/enemy/boss/obstacle without getting hurt, we're not playing chess here.

Oh and let me said again just be sure, I got that it's your personal opinion and this IS NOT an personal attack in any way or a mean to disrespect you.

Spax3 is an idiot. Although the design is truly somewhat "weird".

guys, while debating facts may change people's minds, debating opinions will not. chill out, please.

@Bulbasaurus_Rex_&_MrPinguy I think we should just end this argument. We're essentially getting nowhere and I can't come up with any more ideas/facts to defend my opinion.

I've never cared about your opinion on whether or not you like Sonic's gameplay. I've only been trying to show you that Sonic's gameplay is not as simple as "run and jump," which is an incorrect fact, not an opinion. As long as you watch the video from the link I posted, I'll stop arguing about it.

@Bulbasaurus_Rex I did, that's why I said I was sorry in my last post. But I can't help but look at what the current situation is since I feel that a game going "back to the past" only by name and certain things that were Okay at best. I think I need to change my mindset from the Yahtzee "Hate Everything that's Slightly Good to You" mindset into the Game Overthinker "Look at it Intelligently Before Making Assumptions" mindset.

I'm not forcing you to like it in the first place and I'm not saying that you can't have an negative opinion.
And yes it's better, this isn't really getting nowhere, looks that an constructive debate here is impossible.

My sarcasm is sarcastic.

It's actually of my most anticipated WiiWare downloads atm.

Agreed. Here's hoping for a March release (to go with the DS Classic Collection)