Forums

Topic: Why do so many people hate Indie Games?

Posts 61 to 80 of 81

SMEXIZELDAMAN

spizzamarozzi wrote:

Funny because I was talking about this with a friend of mine who works for Sony Playstation. My supersecret theory is that gamers nowdays don't want to just play the big games, they want to play the big games that are relevant 'that' specific moment they choose to buy them. They want to bring their AAA game home as soon as possible (noticed the dangerous popularity of pre-orders??), play it and share their experience with million of people who did the same thing. Big budget games have this kind of "community" quality - you know millions of people are going to get them and rave/rant on the internet and a lot of players want to follow that, or be a part of that - it's a process of tension and release, in a sense.
Now, indie games may turn out better, but usually they don't kick up that kind of storm big releases do. GTAV was the defining event of 2013 - Shovel Knight is probably better but doesn't feel like capturing these times as well as GTAV. For all laypeople know, it could have been released 20 years ago.
Gaming on consoles has become more and more of a social activity, and as many social things, it's more about the "significance" than the actual quality.

**this supersecret theory also explains why I keep finding two years old PS3 games in the bargain bin for one sixth of their original price.

Check out SUBLIME GAMER, my YouTube Channel
God loves you

DefHalan

WaLzgi wrote:

I do wish we had an alternative term for smaller-scale games. Maybe..."Single A" games

But then how would you differentiate between Child of Light, Bit.Trip Runner 2, Puzzles & Dragons, Rayman Jungle Run, or Star Command? It gets really hard to define games by budget or content.

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

unrandomsam

DefHalan wrote:

unrandomsam wrote:

"So if a Nintendo development team makes a game that Nintendo publishes it is Indie."

That is not true at all. Nintendo is a major publisher. The definition is whether it is made without the publishers money or influence.

The only corners cases are people like Treasure or Wayforward. (Shantae or Ikaruga are Indie but Smurfs 2 or Wario World are not).

Nintendo is self-publishing if one of their development teams is making it. It does not matter how much money a company has. All that matters is the company in charge of development is also publishing the game for it to be considered Independent, they company is not relying on another to fund or develop the game. Wayforward, Treasure, and Renegade Kid are examples of indie developers that work with publishers at times.

Nintendo is the equivalent of a Major Label (I think the term came from Music therefore it cannot be considered indie ever).

“30fps Is Not a Good Artistic Decision, It's a Failure”
Freedom of the press is for those who happen to own one.

DefHalan

unrandomsam wrote:

DefHalan wrote:

unrandomsam wrote:

"So if a Nintendo development team makes a game that Nintendo publishes it is Indie."

That is not true at all. Nintendo is a major publisher. The definition is whether it is made without the publishers money or influence.

The only corners cases are people like Treasure or Wayforward. (Shantae or Ikaruga are Indie but Smurfs 2 or Wario World are not).

Nintendo is self-publishing if one of their development teams is making it. It does not matter how much money a company has. All that matters is the company in charge of development is also publishing the game for it to be considered Independent, they company is not relying on another to fund or develop the game. Wayforward, Treasure, and Renegade Kid are examples of indie developers that work with publishers at times.

Nintendo is the equivalent of a Major Label (I think the term came from Music therefore it cannot be considered indie ever).

So if an artist creates their own label and it becomes big, that artist (who is still making music) is not an independent artist anymore? Or are they just successful enough to produce their own music without needing a Major Label?

EDIT: Not a great example above but I think it gets the point across.

EDIT2: Just because Nintendo or Valve has a lot of money doesn't mean they can't also be independent, in fact it is what helps them stay independent.

Edited on by DefHalan

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

unrandomsam

The amount of money isn't the thing that defines it in Music I don't think. It is with no ties to it was the big 5 Major labels (Now I think there is only two).

People seem to love defining things to mean as much as possible I like the opposite.

AAA is worse if it is supposed to be from Wikipedia

"One "A" is given to games that are considered to be successful (critics or reviewers give it a perfect, or almost perfect score), another "A" is used when a game brings "innovative Gameplay" (a gaming characteristic so unique that differentiate the game from all the rest), and finally, the last "A" defines "Financial Success" (game sales that generate a huge profit)."

Then basically none of them are (And it cannot even be defined in advance of its success due to the financial part).

“30fps Is Not a Good Artistic Decision, It's a Failure”
Freedom of the press is for those who happen to own one.

unrandomsam

(a gaming characteristic so unique that differentiate the game from all the rest) almost never seems to happen with AAA games either.

Perfect or near Perfect (Say 90 or above on Metacritic) that hardly ever happens with AAA games either.

Edited on by unrandomsam

“30fps Is Not a Good Artistic Decision, It's a Failure”
Freedom of the press is for those who happen to own one.

DefHalan

I completely agree AAA should not be defined that way. It doesn't make any sense. I am not a big fan of trying to differentiate games by their budgets. People judge straight to DVD movies the same way they judge The Avengers. Genres are more important than how much someone paid to make something. If people want to use Indie to describe a game with a small budget then they fail to understand what independent means

kkslider5552000 wrote:

trying to define indie is the most pointless endeavor possible

Indie has a definition, people just use it incorrectly

Edited on by DefHalan

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

spizzamarozzi

I thought with AAA we're referring to the scale of the project, or to the budget - the same way, when someone mentions "Hollywood Film" it's referring to a certain kind of production with certain kind of themes and audience as their target.

I agree that "defining indie" is kinda pointless, unless we want to get into semantics and say that independent developers are only developers who work with their own funds and receive no input from major labels and so on and so forth which might not be correct, because "indie", like in music, has become more of a quality of an approach than anything.
At some point, everything that was in the chart started being mainstream, and everything not in the charts (and not aiming at being in the charts) was indie, which again, is incorrect, but proves the fact that indie artists aimed at making niche music, that they didn't care about the charts/the money and they were willing to take huge risks.
Many music artists started out as indie and then got signed by huge labels but kept making records retaining the same approach to music - some are still considered indie even though they are distributed by Warner Brothers.
However, indie games, like independent music records, might share a few points in common that have to do with the nature of being independent itself - you'll never see a 60 hours open world 3D indie game simply because that has a cost that indie developers cannot pay (same way, why no indie band in the 80s could sound like Pink Floyd? Cos that equipment has a cost).

Top-10 games I played in 2017: The Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild (WiiU) - Rogue Legacy (PS3) - Fallout 3 (PS3) - Red Dead Redemption (PS3) - Guns of Boom (MP) - Sky Force Reloaded (MP) - ...

3DS Friend Code: 0104-0649-7464 | Nintendo Network ID: spizzamarozzi

skywake

unrandomsam wrote:

The amount of money isn't the thing that defines it in Music I don't think. It is with no ties to it was the big 5 Major labels (Now I think there is only two).

Not even that. "Indie music" like "indie games" tends to refer to a style of content more than the way it was produced. In the same way as with games indie initially meant independently produced but quickly changed to refer to music that that "isn't top 40 sounding". And because it was an 80s term it was specifically a counter movement to the music that was popular during that decade.

So even in the 90s "indie music" was on major labels and in the top 40s. Kinda like the 90s equivalent "alternative music". It was an attempt to do "indie" properly but it ended up meaning non-pop music. Umbrella terms don't work, they have a mind of their own.

So we've gotten to the point where these guys, massively popular track, independent label, indie sound. "Indie":

These guys, major label even if indirectly, huge, firmly top 40 stuffs. Still "indie"

These guys, much smaller. Independent label, smaller budget, well outside of the current "top 40" sound. Not "Indie":

........... and if you asked me "spot the indie" I'd agree with the consensus about those three. So if you ask me if Child of Light is indie I'd say yes. Because at this point it's not about how the thing was made. It's more about how it was distributed, how big the budget was and what your expectations are. NES Remix is "more indie" than the stuffs that High Voltage studios produced for the Wii were for eg.

Edited on by skywake

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

DPad

Shocks1776 wrote:

There are a lot of cool indie games, but there are also a lot of crappy ones. It's a huge mixed bag.

I find this to be the case with all gaming in general.

I command the following plan, obtain green stars & stamps!
MOST ANTICIPATED WiiU GAMES:
1. Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker
2. The Legend of Zelda U
3. Sonic BOOM
4. Mario Vs. Donkey Kong
5. Splatoon

DefHalan

@skywake

So if we want to turn indie into a genre (or something like that) how do we put all games considered "indie" into a genre that doesn't exclude or include anything that is "indie" There are so many factors that I can't begin to understand what it could be. Do you have any idea of how we classify "indie"

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

OptometristLime

DefHalan wrote:

kkslider5552000 wrote:

trying to define indie is the most pointless endeavor possible

Indie has a definition, people just use it incorrectly

DefHalan wrote:

So if a Nintendo development team makes a game that Nintendo publishes it is Indie.

This really doesn't convey what indie means except that it is a self-reliant endeavor, which is patently obvious. What the term means now, is something that you would probably have to ask a lot of people, and take on a case by case basis if you want to be accurate.

Edited on by OptometristLime

You are what you eat from your head to your feet.

DefHalan

OptometristLime wrote:

DefHalan wrote:

kkslider5552000 wrote:

trying to define indie is the most pointless endeavor possible

Indie has a definition, people just use it incorrectly

DefHalan wrote:

So if a Nintendo development team makes a game that Nintendo publishes it is Indie.

This really doesn't convey what indie means except that it is a self-reliant endeavor, which is patently obvious. What the term means now, is something that you would probably have to ask a lot of people, and take on a case by case basis if you want to be accurate.

I agree to find a definition for the way people currently use "indie" it would be very difficult, probably impossible.

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

skywake

DefHalan wrote:

@skywake
So if we want to turn indie into a genre (or something like that) how do we put all games considered "indie" into a genre that doesn't exclude or include anything that is "indie" There are so many factors that I can't begin to understand what it could be. Do you have any idea of how we classify "indie"

Well it's not really anything specific, you could probably endlessly debate what games were included and which ones aren't. In general though I'd say that a game which refuses to follow what the best selling games are doing and is made on a small budget is "indie". That definition makes the most sense.

So you look at the most popular games ATM. The Pokemons, GTAs, CoDs, FIFAs, Assassin's Creeds and Watch Dogs. They have big budgets, they're made for a mass market, they can't really experiment too much. Those are the gaming equivalents of "pop music". Indie would be the stuffs that isn't along the same lines. That would be my definition if it's to become something less about where the money for the game came from.

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

GuSolarFlare

I just asked the defninition because of Steamworld Dig...
when I got it, it didn't look like the usual indie(I actually didn't even know it was indie) and only when I found out that it actually was indie that I've started warming up to independent developers(not that I hated them before, I was just hesitant to spend my money on indie games)

goodbyes are a sad part of life but for every end there's a new beggining so one must never stop looking forward to the next dawn
now working at IBM as helpdesk analyst
my Backloggery

3DS Friend Code: 3995-7085-4333 | Nintendo Network ID: GustavoSF

LzWinky

Well, the 8/16 bit craze is based on the popularity of certain games like Shovel Knight and everyone trying to cash in on the craze. The AAA industry certainly is no stranger to this mentality

Current games: Everything on Switch

Switch Friend Code: SW-5075-7879-0008 | My Nintendo: LzWinky | Nintendo Network ID: LzWinky

kkslider5552000

to be fair, no one actually plays most of the 8-bit retro stuff. Like Shovel Knight is literally the first one to get any sort of real following since the AVGN game I think?

Non-binary, demiguy, making LPs, still alive

Megaman Legends 2 Let's Play!:
LeT's PlAy MEGAMAN LEGENDS 2 < Link to LP

unrandomsam

Oniken is pretty good. It is like Ninja Gaiden difficult but pretty fair.

They Bleed Pixels is also good.

8 Bit Boy might end up decent its still getting updated and it looks like it has the potential to be a good game but its not quite right.

Rogue Legacy is brilliant in all ways.

Tiny Barbarian DX is quite good.

Manos and the Hands of Fate (For me it gets what I remember about the NES perfect).

“30fps Is Not a Good Artistic Decision, It's a Failure”
Freedom of the press is for those who happen to own one.

skywake

Shovel Knight, Retro City Rampage, 1001 Spikes, the Bit Trip series, VVVVVV, Luftrausers, Papers Please, Hotline Miami, Terraria, World of Goo, Journey, DayZ, Rust, Trine, Don't Starve, Outlast, Child of Light, Flower, Limbo, Braid, The Stanley Parable, Bastion.........

People hate the what now?

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

This topic has been archived, no further posts can be added.