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Topic: Why do so many people hate Indie Games?

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arronishere

21. Posted:

TBH I can't take the article seriously as they use the word hate, to me before I read it seemed like they were going for sensationalism which I do my best to avoid.

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MrWalkieTalkie

22. Posted:

Whenever Nintendo uploads a trailer for an indie game on their youtube channel, there's always someone complaining. I recall asking one of them what's wrong with having lots of indie games on the eShop. Their respond was "They're focusing too much on download-only games, no one cares about that, we need REAL games we can physically hold, Nintendo is wasting too much money on getting crappy iPhone games in Wii U to appeal to casuals."

And with that, I absolutely could not respond to such a dumb and uneducated answer.

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CanisWolfred

23. Posted:

Turnip-Forest wrote:

I dislike how many indie games are incredibly short experiences. It's the main reason why I generally don't buy or support them.
$20 for a 3 hour "experience" is usually not worth it IMO.

What indie games are you playing? Not that full retail titles are automatically much longer...

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WaLzgi

24. Posted:

MrWalkieTalkie wrote:

Whenever Nintendo uploads a trailer for an indie game on their youtube channel, there's always someone complaining.

When Nintendo or any company does or does not do something, someone complains.

I recall asking one of them what's wrong with having lots of indie games on the eShop. Their respond was "They're focusing too much on download-only games, no one cares about that, we need REAL games we can physically hold, Nintendo is wasting too much money on getting crappy iPhone games in Wii U to appeal to casuals.

Yes, because Dan Aldeman and his bunch can totally work on game development for our precious physical games :p

And with that, I absolutely could not respond to such a dumb and uneducated answer.

I can. I have no shame :D

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Turnip-Forest

25. Posted:

CanisWolfred wrote:

Turnip-Forest wrote:

I dislike how many indie games are incredibly short experiences. It's the main reason why I generally don't buy or support them.
$20 for a 3 hour "experience" is usually not worth it IMO.

What indie games are you playing? Not that full retail titles are automatically much longer...

Off the top of my head? Cave Story, Master Reboot, Steamworld Dig, Spelunky, Hammerwatch, and Risk of Rain, though I've played quite a few more.

I should add that I dislike how indie games often use cheap ways to lengthen the game, such as being overly-difficult or being a game that you're expected to replay many times. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but for someone, such as myself, who dislikes replaying games and playing overly difficult games, it's definitely a con.

Just to reaffirm my stance, I do oftentimes enjoy indie titles--it's just that the content (or rather, the lack thereof) doesn't justify the price.

Edited on by Turnip-Forest

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DefHalan

26. Posted:

Aviator wrote:

DefHalan wrote:

I see Nintendo as where Indie and AAA meet.

You must be blind then.

How am I blind?

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/44243746261/nickels-dimes-and-quarters
http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/why-console-specs-dont-matter
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/200271/Video_Don_Daglow_on_nextgen_transition_traps_and_treasures.php

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TheItalianBaptist

27. Posted:

DefHalan wrote:

Aviator wrote:

DefHalan wrote:

I see Nintendo as where Indie and AAA meet.

You must be blind then.

How am I blind?

I agree with DefHalan. It hasn't been this way until just recently (Wiiware started the trend and the eshop took it and ran with it), but the Wii U and 3ds eshops are really where the small and big games mingle together with little differentiation besides price. I don't have a whole lot of experience with Microsoft and Sony but the focus there def seems to be more on the big names. Because Nintendo doesn't have a lot of those (for better or worse), they can focus more on the "retro revival indie" stuff right alongside their own "retro revival charm" games.

Personally I like the irony of someday having Smash Bros., Mario Kart 8, and The Letter stand side by side on the main menu lol

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DefHalan

28. Posted:

TheItalianBaptist wrote:

DefHalan wrote:

Aviator wrote:

DefHalan wrote:

I see Nintendo as where Indie and AAA meet.

You must be blind then.

How am I blind?

I agree with DefHalan. It hasn't been this way until just recently (Wiiware started the trend and the eshop took it and ran with it), but the Wii U and 3ds eshops are really where the small and big games mingle together with little differentiation besides price. I don't have a whole lot of experience with Microsoft and Sony but the focus there def seems to be more on the big names. Because Nintendo doesn't have a lot of those (for better or worse), they can focus more on the "retro revival indie" stuff right alongside their own "retro revival charm" games.

Personally I like the irony of someday having Smash Bros., Mario Kart 8, and The Letter stand side by side on the main menu lol

Not what I was talking about but I agree. I like how games on the eShop are just treated as games, not smaller less-important games.

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/44243746261/nickels-dimes-and-quarters
http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/why-console-specs-dont-matter
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/200271/Video_Don_Daglow_on_nextgen_transition_traps_and_treasures.php

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Nintenjoe64

29. Posted:

This article was just IGN click-bait. Nothing happening in the way of new releases so they try to start a trolls vs fans article. I don't see much hate for indies but there are plenty of massively overrated ones and everyone who watched "Indie Game the Movie" saw some very pretentious developers who have gone on to say some pretty stupid things.

It doesn't help when something like "The Mighty Switch Force" gets 9/10 on a site like NL. It was one of the worst value games I have ever bought.

shingi_70 wrote:

alot of the games being 8/16 bit homages has become grating.

Agree

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moomoo

30. Posted:

Turnip-Forest wrote:

CanisWolfred wrote:

Turnip-Forest wrote:

I dislike how many indie games are incredibly short experiences. It's the main reason why I generally don't buy or support them.
$20 for a 3 hour "experience" is usually not worth it IMO.

What indie games are you playing? Not that full retail titles are automatically much longer...

Off the top of my head? Cave Story, Master Reboot, Steamworld Dig, Spelunky, Hammerwatch, and Risk of Rain, though I've played quite a few more.

I should add that I dislike how indie games often use cheap ways to lengthen the game, such as being overly-difficult or being a game that you're expected to replay many times. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but for someone, such as myself, who dislikes replaying games and playing overly difficult games, it's definitely a con.

Just to reaffirm my stance, I do oftentimes enjoy indie titles--it's just that the content (or rather, the lack thereof) doesn't justify the price.

I agree with what you're saying but... isn't Cave Story free on PC indefinitely? Like, it's always been.

Also, for an example, it took me about 4 hours to beat Steamworld Dig. That game is less than $10. Multiply that by six and you get a 24 hour game at $60, which is longer than most of those games. Seems like good value to me if you had as good of a time with it as the standard AAA game.

Also, don't most indie games go on sale a lot? Maybe that's just because most of them are on PC or Vita, where they're always on sale in some form or another. I don't think Thomas Was Alone is worth it at the standard price, but half-off? Hecks yeah!

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CanisWolfred

31. Posted:

I bought Thomas Was alone for $1, so I think I'll enjoy it at least at that price.

And yeah, @Turnip_Forest, what $40-$60 retail games do you play that are actually worth the price in your mind, if "worth" seems to come down to the amount of hours you spend with it?

Edited on by CanisWolfred

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8BitSamurai

32. Posted:

Nintenjoe64 wrote:

This article was just IGN click-bait. Nothing happening in the way of new releases so they try to start a trolls vs fans article. I don't see much hate for indies but there are plenty of massively overrated ones and everyone who watched "Indie Game the Movie" saw some very pretentious developers who have gone on to say some pretty stupid things.

It doesn't help when something like "The Mighty Switch Force" gets 9/10 on a site like NL. It was one of the worst value games I have ever bought.

shingi_70 wrote:

alot of the games being 8/16 bit homages has become grating.

Agree

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Tasuki

33. Posted:

I think the biggest reason are that it seems there are more bad Indie games out there then good ones. For every Shovel Knight or Gunman Clive you have a hundred Angry Birds Clones and for the most part most gamers just see the Angry Bird Clones and don't bother to weed through them to find a gem.

My friend lately has been going nuts with Indie games on the Xbox 360 and he found alot of great games for $1. Some of them are clones of old arcade games like a Space Invader one he has but him and I find it much better then the Space Invader game they do have on XBLA for 10 bucks. Hes also introduced me to some great ones like Fist Puncher.

Really it just takes time to dig that's all unfortunately today society just wants everything now and don't want to have to wait or dig around to find the good stuff.

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DefHalan

34. Posted:

Tasuki wrote:

I think the biggest reason are that it seems there are more bad Indie games out there then good ones. For every Shovel Knight or Gunman Clive you have a hundred Angry Birds Clones and for the most part most gamers just see the Angry Bird Clones and don't bother to weed through them to find a gem.

My friend lately has been going nuts with Indie games on the Xbox 360 and he found alot of great games for $1. Some of them are clones of old arcade games like a Space Invader one he has but him and I find it much better then the Space Invader game they do have on XBLA for 10 bucks. Hes also introduced me to some great ones like Fist Puncher.

Really it just takes time to dig that's all unfortunately today society just wants everything now and don't want to have to wait or dig around to find the good stuff.

For the Xbox 360 Indie Game stuff, check out Decay. But your point above about for every good indie game there are hundreds of bad is true for Retail titles too

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/44243746261/nickels-dimes-and-quarters
http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/why-console-specs-dont-matter
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/200271/Video_Don_Daglow_on_nextgen_transition_traps_and_treasures.php

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Tasuki

35. Posted:

DefHalan wrote:

Tasuki wrote:

I think the biggest reason are that it seems there are more bad Indie games out there then good ones. For every Shovel Knight or Gunman Clive you have a hundred Angry Birds Clones and for the most part most gamers just see the Angry Bird Clones and don't bother to weed through them to find a gem.

My friend lately has been going nuts with Indie games on the Xbox 360 and he found alot of great games for $1. Some of them are clones of old arcade games like a Space Invader one he has but him and I find it much better then the Space Invader game they do have on XBLA for 10 bucks. Hes also introduced me to some great ones like Fist Puncher.

Really it just takes time to dig that's all unfortunately today society just wants everything now and don't want to have to wait or dig around to find the good stuff.

For the Xbox 360 Indie Game stuff, check out Decay. But your point above about for every good indie game there are hundreds of bad is true for Retail titles too

Honestly I dont have regular access to an Xbox 360 anymore I mainly play it when I go over to his house. Most of the Indie games I get I buy on OUYA.

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Turnip-Forest

36. Posted:

@MooMoo - Oh, my apologies for the lack of clarification: I was simply mentioning that CS was an indie game that I've played--I wasn't saying that it didn't have enough content to justify its nonexistent price tag.

Yes, if you multiplied Steamworld's length and price tag by six, you would get an average length game for $60.
However, a short game is still a short game.
I'm sure this is something that isn't unique to me, but there are some games that, even at a low price tag, feel incomplete or dissatisfying when they're only a few hours long. Yes, I could buy 3~6 indie games for $60; and yes, if I added up all of the hours spent on those 3~6 games, the number of hours would almost definitely equal the hours spent playing through a single $60 AAA title, but I personally would rather get attached to one long game than play four short and somewhat dissatisfying games.

I do support indie games occasionally, such as when they include multiplayer (which adds a lot of replayability for me), when they're on sale, or when I'm looking for something that I can play and finish during a long car trip or when I'm on the bus, but I generally prefer playing a single, lengthy game.

I bought Thomas Was Alone during a sale for $1 and loved it. It was definitely worth that price, though I wouldn't have spent more than $3~$5 on it.

@CanisWolfred - Worth definitely does not come down to solely the number of hours spent on it. That said, the length of a game does not have nothing to do with its worth. Some games benefit from being short experiences, while others are definitely better long. I usually prefer the long ones.

Keep in mind that I'm not saying short indie games (or rather short games in general) are bad or worthless. I acknowledge that Steamworld Dig, Master Reboot, Spelunky, etc. are good games--to me, they simply aren't worth their price tags. That isn't to say they don't appeal to me, though. Oftentimes if there's a short game that I want to buy, I'll just wait until it drops down to a price I feel comfortable paying for.

Edited on by Turnip-Forest

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unrandomsam

37. Posted:

I don't mind indie games I just like the good ones. What I don't like is paying 4 times or more the Steam price (As in the week before it comes out) for a port of a game that came out ages ago. (Or a 30fps version where the PC gets 60fps).

Stuff like Retro City Rampage DX is fine. (I bought it and actually got around to playing through it.)

Shovel Knight (That is not ok for me I have already bought and finished it on Steam).
Steamworld Dig (It was good)
Scram Kity (Also Good but that is it for ones on Nintendo).

Rogue Legacy
Spelunky
Super Meatboy
Bastion
Transistor
Arnored Hunter GUNHOUND EX
Starbound
Broken Age
The Golf Club
Croixleur Sigma
Crimzon Clover WORLD IGNITION
Super Hexagon (Perfect Game pretty much)
Super Meatboy
Ikaruga
Giana Sisters: Twisted Dreams - Rise of the Owlverlord (It is like a new game and miles better).
Shank 2

There are others I did like (But stopped playing) but those are the ones at the moment I like the most and none of them are on Wii U or 3DS.

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TromboneGamer

38. Posted:

I'm pretty sure most people like indie games. Some people hate when indie games representing a genre are more greatly praised then another game they enjoy, but other than that it's only through sheer ignorance that people would come to hate them as a whole.

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rockodoodle

39. Posted:

Well, I've enjoyed the indie games on the Wii U. That's practically all I've been playing except MK8, NSMBU and Rayman......

rockodoodle

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kkslider5552000

40. Posted:

Considering how next gen was delayed until 2015, it isn't like people have a choice at this point.

"You could get Wii Sports Club"
"You could get Last of Us again"
"...?"
-retail games for the big 3 right now

meanwhile people are playing shovel knight or super time force and laughing...

Edited on by kkslider5552000

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