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Topic: Nintendo making us pay AGAIN for virtual console titles we have already purchased years ago **** WARNING: I'M UPSET ****

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Knux

241. Posted:

LZBirdboi wrote:

No you really don't. It's their service, not yours. Also, you agree to their terms (just like Sony and Apple) when you use their services. Just saying...

And as long as I have a wallet, I have every ''right'' not to purchase their updates. You might be right in the fact that I agree to only have my games on the Wii's VC, but you're very wrong when you say that a consumer has no ''rights''. A consumer has the right whether to purchase, not purchase, or even sell their games (when they're not digital). I have the ''right'' to choose whether or not to purchase those updates.

So please tell me in detail how a consumer has no rights? ;)

Also, all this crap makes me miss the good old days when you bought a cartridge or disc and it was yours forever. :(

Edited on by Knux

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Bankai

242. Posted:

moomoo wrote:

Bankai wrote:

moomoo wrote:

@Bankai For what it's worth, On-Disc DLC is different in that the consumer has the possiblity of purchasing content they technically already own. That's not the case with Wii U VC transfers. They never owned the VC game on Wii U with all the additional features.

Technically players don't own on-disc DLC without the 6KB unlock file, actually.

Do you know where I could find that legal documentation?

Now, I believe it's there. However, there might be some conflicting laws regarding the practice. When a consumer buys a video game, do they own the entire disk or parts of it? What constitutes what belongs to the owner and the publisher in this case, since for any other physical good it is very clear that the consumer owns the product fully.

If a lawsuit occurs regarding a person hacking into a disc they owned to obtain locked content, I'll make sure to watch it. It's bound to settle that issue.

@AlbertoC That's just it though. That "DLC" was already on the cartridge. Is it legal to get it or not?

People who buy, say, Mircosoft Windows on a disc, do not own the code.

There's a difference between proprietary code (solely owned by those who write it), and open source code (anyone can do whatever they like to it). Game development is almost always proprietary, and owning the disc doesn't actually mean you own the code burned on to the disc.

Physical media with entertainment is still typically licensed-based, believe it or not. When you buy a movie DVD you don't actually own that movie, and indeed it's still illegal to broadcast the movie in a public space. You own the right to watch that movie, and you own the physical disc and box.

Downloads work the same way, just sans owning the disc.

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SCAR392

243. Posted:

moomoo wrote:

Bankai wrote:

moomoo wrote:

@Bankai For what it's worth, On-Disc DLC is different in that the consumer has the possiblity of purchasing content they technically already own. That's not the case with Wii U VC transfers. They never owned the VC game on Wii U with all the additional features.

Technically players don't own on-disc DLC without the 6KB unlock file, actually.

Do you know where I could find that legal documentation?

Now, I believe it's there. However, there might be some conflicting laws regarding the practice. When a consumer buys a video game, do they own the entire disk or parts of it? What constitutes what belongs to the owner and the publisher in this case, since for any other physical good it is very clear that the consumer owns the product fully.

If a lawsuit occurs regarding a person hacking into a disc they owned to obtain locked content, I'll make sure to watch it. It's bound to settle that issue.

@AlbertoC That's just it though. That "DLC" was already on the cartridge. Is it legal to get it or not?

Go try and unlock the Smash Bros. content by hacking it. 'Beware the Forest mushrooms CD found!' Haha...

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moomoo

244. Posted:

Knux wrote:

Also, all this crap makes me miss the good old days when you bought a cartridge or disc and it was yours forever. :(

I'm feeling you. Buying Rolando and not being able to play it anymore because ngmoco is stupid sucks.
But for the topic at hand, you still have access to all VC purchases, so as of right now, you've still got the games you bought forever.

@Bankai But what if you're just slightly altering that code for your entertainment only? For example, bypassing that 6 KB download by putting something there instead. You aren't selling it to others.

Edited on by moomoo

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theblackdragon

245. Posted:

@moomoo, et. al. — the argument about the legality of hacking on-disc DLC does not belong in this thread or on the forums. Please stop.

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SCAR392

246. Posted:

99¢

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WaLzgi

247. Posted:

Also, I dug this up...which was announced TODAY btw... http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/01/nintendo_reveals_pla...

Iwata mentioned that these games are being recoded all over again. That's why they're charging you a dollar.

Edited on by WaLzgi

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kkslider5552000

248. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

99¢

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Bazly

249. Posted:

Really the issue for me comes down to: will you be able to access the games on your Wii U regardless of how you bought them? Without the upgrades will I ever be able to at least store my Wii VC games on my Wii U? I could care less about the other features, but I'm annoyed that I have a 32 gig harddrive on the system that ALL of my VC games could fit on and it's NOT letting me use it.

Also, to all of you being all "99 cents is nothing". To some degree, I DO agree with you. Truth be told, you can just pick your favourites and only pay to get the updated features on those ones.

ON THE OTHER HAND

I have like 200 VC games. It sucks that I will have to "pick and choose" which ones to now have on my Wii U, because at only "99 cents" each that ends up being like $200 that I can't possibly afford. Meanwhile when I bought a PSP at Christmas all of my PS1 classics could be installed on it... just sayin'!

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SKTTR

250. Posted:

Sean_Aaron wrote:

Wbo says they won't? Please note that the button in the eShop says "TRIAL" on it. Wii U virtual console officially a launches in the summer time and we're getting two more system updates in that time, so who can say what they'll do?
.

Yeah hopefully they add more features to the "FULL" VC versions, like 60Hz.

Edited on by SKTTR

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KaiserGX

251. Posted:

I am a bit bummed but extreamly optimistic about everything. I will pretend the games I bought just costed a dollar/dollar 50 more.

I will not buy all, as there are some I regret buying but I will buy most. Also the fact that I don't think some VC games will be back (like the ones that were removed).

Also yes I am one of those that has hundreds of VC games.

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ShadJV

252. Posted:

Oh geez. Now we're bringing legality or, to get even more ambiguous, morality? From a legal standpoint, look at the Terms of Service you were "required" to see before you created a Wii Shop account. Nintendo spelled out very clearly that not only are all purchases locked to your Wii hardware (meaning no guarantee of a transfer to newer consoles), but they have every right to remove the ability to redownload purchased digital content. Allowing free transfer to the Wii U was a perk they didn't have to do. Giving us a discount on the Wii U version is still something they didn't have to do, we were not entitled to any later versions of the game, right in the ToS it was clear that any data you're paying for was included in each purchase, they did not include later upgrades. This was spelled out years ago when clicked that you read the ToS so there's no point in arguing it now, it shouldn't come as news. As for morality... That's subjective. You can't claim something is "wrong" simply on the grounds that you're dissatisfied or another company made different choices. Everyone is free to choose how to spend their money, and companies are free to charge for whatever games/services/features they choose. If you feel that's not fair, don't purchase it. You were never promised these features, it was explicit in the ToS that you paid for one digital copy of the game (and Nintendo is choosing to let you transfer it to the Wii U), and so you aren't entitled to anything for free. Complain all you want, it makes no difference really, you already made a legally binding agreement with the company (the ToS). Welcome to the real world, where the economy is failing and more and more corners will be cut by companies everywhere.

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TysonOfTime

253. Posted:

I'm not sure if this effects anything whatever is going on in this thread, but has it been mentioned that it's not actually a transfer; you're simply buying the new version for 1$.
...Does anyone know if you'll keep the version on the Wii or not?

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Bankai

254. Posted:

ShadJV wrote:

Oh geez. Now we're bringing legality or, to get even more ambiguous, morality? From a legal standpoint, look at the Terms of Service you were "required" to see before you created a Wii Shop account. Nintendo spelled out very clearly that not only are all purchases locked to your Wii hardware (meaning no guarantee of a transfer to newer consoles), but they have every right to remove the ability to redownload purchased digital content. Allowing free transfer to the Wii U was a perk they didn't have to do. Giving us a discount on the Wii U version is still something they didn't have to do, we were not entitled to any later versions of the game, right in the ToS it was clear that any data you're paying for was included in each purchase, they did not include later upgrades. This was spelled out years ago when clicked that you read the ToS so there's no point in arguing it now, it shouldn't come as news. As for morality... That's subjective. You can't claim something is "wrong" simply on the grounds that you're dissatisfied or another company made different choices. Everyone is free to choose how to spend their money, and companies are free to charge for whatever games/services/features they choose. If you feel that's not fair, don't purchase it. You were never promised these features, it was explicit in the ToS that you paid for one digital copy of the game (and Nintendo is choosing to let you transfer it to the Wii U), and so you aren't entitled to anything for free. Complain all you want, it makes no difference really, you already made a legally binding agreement with the company (the ToS). Welcome to the real world, where the economy is failing and more and more corners will be cut by companies everywhere.

The funniest bit about this argument (and it's been made a lot in this thread, but I might as well bring it up for the sake of discussion): you people are all defending Nintendo's right to be the worst of all the companies offering digital download services.

So... yeah, you're right. Nintendo has every right to have the worst download policies, and have the worst service.

I have every right to go and try out to be on the Australian Olympic Sprinting team. Doesn't mean I'm going to be competing in the Olympics. In fact, my right to suck is only going to result in me choking on the dust of the second slowest runner in the first heat.

Personally, though, as a fan of Nintendo, I would rather Nintendo be competitive, if not win.

Edited on by Bankai

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BJQ1972

255. Posted:

The way I see it, if you look at Balloon Fight as an example, I paid 3.50 for the Wii version, which I can play from the Wii channel on Wii U at anytime, or I can choose to upgrade to the Wii U version, which is priced at 4.50 for 1GBP, i.e. just the difference in price between the two versions. This gives me the convenience of being able to play on the Gamepad, has better saves, and I won't have any fridge cleaning problems.

what's the problem?

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SCAR392

256. Posted:

Bankai wrote:

ShadJV wrote:

Oh geez. Now we're bringing legality or, to get even more ambiguous, morality? From a legal standpoint, look at the Terms of Service you were "required" to see before you created a Wii Shop account. Nintendo spelled out very clearly that not only are all purchases locked to your Wii hardware (meaning no guarantee of a transfer to newer consoles), but they have every right to remove the ability to redownload purchased digital content. Allowing free transfer to the Wii U was a perk they didn't have to do. Giving us a discount on the Wii U version is still something they didn't have to do, we were not entitled to any later versions of the game, right in the ToS it was clear that any data you're paying for was included in each purchase, they did not include later upgrades. This was spelled out years ago when clicked that you read the ToS so there's no point in arguing it now, it shouldn't come as news. As for morality... That's subjective. You can't claim something is "wrong" simply on the grounds that you're dissatisfied or another company made different choices. Everyone is free to choose how to spend their money, and companies are free to charge for whatever games/services/features they choose. If you feel that's not fair, don't purchase it. You were never promised these features, it was explicit in the ToS that you paid for one digital copy of the game (and Nintendo is choosing to let you transfer it to the Wii U), and so you aren't entitled to anything for free. Complain all you want, it makes no difference really, you already made a legally binding agreement with the company (the ToS). Welcome to the real world, where the economy is failing and more and more corners will be cut by companies everywhere.

The funniest bit about this argument (and it's been made a lot in this thread, but I might as well bring it up for the sake of discussion): you people are all defending Nintendo's right to be the worst of all the companies offering digital download services.

So... yeah, you're right. Nintendo has every right to have the worst download policies, and have the worst service.

I have every right to go and try out to be on the Australian Olympic Sprinting team. Doesn't mean I'm going to be competing in the Olympics. In fact, my right to suck is only going to result in me choking on the dust of the second slowest runner in the first heat.

Personally, though, as a fan of Nintendo, I would rather Nintendo be competitive, if not win.

Once I download software, it's tied to my console forever, and I have a 2TB drive to back it up. You can't even see the box art on Xbox 360 without Xbox Live. I think they're moving in the right direction, and showing what they did today proves their not f***ing around. I've said this alot, but I've had crappy service when it comes to relying on internet as a main resource for mass media, even outside of video games.

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SCAR392

257. Posted:

Digital is the best way to have your games IMO. My PS3 has been demoted to 'media hub 2', with my PC being 'media hub 1'. They still have purpose, just not for gaming now(for me). I'll leave my gaming for Wii U, especially after todays announcements...

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Bankai

258. Posted:

And then there will always be people to barrack for the weakest team in the league...

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Chrono_Cross

259. Posted:

Bankai wrote:

And then there will always be people to barrack for the weakest team in the league...

Mainly due to the fact they can't accept reality.

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MAB

260. Posted:

Australia sucks at cricket nowadays but I will always barrack for them in the hope that one day they will kick a$$ ;)

Maybe that's one of the reasons why Sony has put themselves in hole by not charging to transfer games between systems... All the cheapskate fanheads are killing the Sony empire.

MAB