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Topic: Indie devs, transparency, and miiverse marketing

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TheItalianBaptist

1. Posted:

I read the article about adelman leaving nintendo and I couldn't help but contrast the difference between nintendo's "hush-hushness" and the developer of iq test for the eshop. Idk if any of you are following this but jordan has risen to fame over in miiverse and that's really what's selling his game I think. (He kinda tried the same thing on these forums but it didn't work out nearly as well) This isn't the first time I've seen miiverse used extensively for marketing purposes - sakurai's daily posts come to mind, or any Facebook page for that matter - but the personal level he gets to with his community is noteworthy. He yeahs just about everybody and they show their support for him as a human being rather than just his game. Do you look forward to seeing this sort of thing in the future? What are your thoughts?

Out of these ashes, beauty will rise - Steven Curtis Chapman
The LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks with his friend. - Exodus 33:11a (NIV)
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. - Romans 5:8 (KJV)

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spizzamarozzi

2. Posted:

being close to the audience = $$$

there's really not much to say about it. If I see a developer who keeps in touch, replies and gets involved with the audience I automatically get interested in his/her product. This has to do a lot with the fact that for years, developers have been faceless people or/and reclusive and inapproachable characters, so it's nice to see them interact like proper people.
And mind you, I don't wish to support crappy products just for the sake of manners, but in an industry where the audience and the producers have been distant for so long, it's nice to see some of these guys stepping down in the trenches.
On the other hand though, you have people like Kamiya who would seriously do the world a favor if they just STFU.

One of the things I'd like this forum to do is to have a section where developers who release on WiiU/3DS could join as guests for say, one week, and during that week people would ask questions etc. This would be good marketing.

spizzamarozzi

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JamesCoote

3. Posted:

spizzamarozzi wrote:

One of the things I'd like this forum to do is to have a section where developers who release on WiiU/3DS could join as guests for say, one week, and during that week people would ask questions etc. This would be good marketing.

Why just for one week?

I'd love to have a forum section where I can talk directly to people about my game both during development and after release. I've seen this on some indie game forums where developers get one "official thread" per game they create, then they can update it as and when they have more info on the game. Equally people can ask questions in that thread and the developer can answer them. So long as they aren't bumping it up every hour with superfluous status updates

Game developer for Crystalline Green Ltd.

Twitter: JamesACoote

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Geonjaha

4. Posted:

That's great, and I'm sure he's a great guy, but I'm not going to a buy a game just because the developer is friendly. I'm sure a bunch of people on Mii-verse will do exactly that though. Buy the games that are good and that you'll enjoy - not the ones made by a developer who gave a 'Yeah' to a couple of your posts. It's good marketing for his game, that's for sure, but a lot of Mii-verse is kids - it'd be a shame if his game turns out horrible and many of them bought it anyway.

Transparency and interaction with the community is something that's important on PC, where updates and patches are pretty damn common (cough Early Access cough. On consoles the behaviour isn't really seen because it's not needed.

Edited on by Geonjaha

I make Pixel Art on occasion.

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DefHalan

5. Posted:

Geonjaha wrote:

That's great, and I'm sure he's a great guy, but I'm not going to a buy a game just because the developer is friendly. I'm sure a bunch of people on Mii-verse will do exactly that though. Buy the games that are good and that you'll enjoy - not the ones made by a developer who gave a 'Yeah' to a couple of your posts. It's good marketing for his game, that's for sure, but a lot of Mii-verse is kids - it'd be a shame if his game turns out horrible and many of them bought it anyway.

Transparency and interaction with the community is something that's important on PC, where updates and patches are pretty damn common. On consoles the behaviour isn't really seen because it's not needed.

Why is it not needed on consoles?

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/44243746261/nickels-dimes-and-quarters
http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/why-console-specs-dont-matter
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/200271/Video_Don_Daglow_on_nextgen_transition_traps_and_treasures.php

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WaLzgi

6. Posted:

Being friendly makes you and your product/game more appealing. I think it's a great way to get your game known.

Nintendo Life moderator and duck.

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WiiULoveSquid

7. Posted:

Being angry and controversial gets your name out there too lol

WiiULoveSquid

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WaLzgi

8. Posted:

Eh...I wouldn't recommend it. I've heard of some PC devs that failed miserably

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JamesCoote

9. Posted:

WaLzgi wrote:

Being friendly makes you and your product/game more appealing. I think it's a great way to get your game known.

Getting your game known in the first place is the hardest thing indies in particular, have to do if they want their game to succeed.

Game developer for Crystalline Green Ltd.

Twitter: JamesACoote

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Geonjaha

10. Posted:

DefHalan wrote:

Geonjaha wrote:

That's great, and I'm sure he's a great guy, but I'm not going to a buy a game just because the developer is friendly. I'm sure a bunch of people on Mii-verse will do exactly that though. Buy the games that are good and that you'll enjoy - not the ones made by a developer who gave a 'Yeah' to a couple of your posts. It's good marketing for his game, that's for sure, but a lot of Mii-verse is kids - it'd be a shame if his game turns out horrible and many of them bought it anyway.

Transparency and interaction with the community is something that's important on PC, where updates and patches are pretty damn common. On consoles the behaviour isn't really seen because it's not needed.

Why is it not needed on consoles?

Because console games in comparison with PC games oh so rarely get content patches or continual updates. Sure, it happens sometimes, but even then its to a much lesser degree. Chances are this guys game will be released without any additional content or patches coming in the future. Don't get me wrong; talking to the customers is still good, it just doesn't mean anything for the product itself because its a single release.

Edited on by Geonjaha

I make Pixel Art on occasion.

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spizzamarozzi

11. Posted:

JamesCoote wrote:

spizzamarozzi wrote:

One of the things I'd like this forum to do is to have a section where developers who release on WiiU/3DS could join as guests for say, one week, and during that week people would ask questions etc. This would be good marketing.

Why just for one week?

I'd love to have a forum section where I can talk directly to people about my game both during development and after release. I've seen this on some indie game forums where developers get one "official thread" per game they create, then they can update it as and when they have more info on the game. Equally people can ask questions in that thread and the developer can answer them. So long as they aren't bumping it up every hour with superfluous status updates

I think one week is enough time for a satisfying Q&A - I wouldn't want a space like that to transform into blatant marketing, and I'm against the audience being spoonfed with information. It would be like Radiohead always posting on the internet "You know, we have recorded this awesome bit on track #3" and so on. Just get the bloody song done I'd say.

Q&A = yes /// continuous updates = nah - devs already have their websites for that

spizzamarozzi

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ACK

12. Posted:

No, I really don't. I'm not interested in developers panhandling through social media in snakeskin suits to gain affection. Let the games speak for themselves. I'll buy your game if it is good or even close. That's all I need.

ACK

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DefHalan

13. Posted:

ACK wrote:

No, I really don't. I'm not interested in developers panhandling through social media in snakeskin suits to gain affection. Let the games speak for themselves. I'll buy your game if it is good or even close. That's all I need.

But how does it negatively affect you when they do this?

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/44243746261/nickels-dimes-and-quarters
http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/why-console-specs-dont-matter
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/200271/Video_Don_Daglow_on_nextgen_transition_traps_and_treasures.php

3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

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ACK

14. Posted:

And it's interesting that you guys interact with these developers and think they're good, friendly people... When I just think they took a financial risk and are desperately efforting to mitigate their prospects.

ACK

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DefHalan

15. Posted:

Geonjaha wrote:

DefHalan wrote:

Geonjaha wrote:

That's great, and I'm sure he's a great guy, but I'm not going to a buy a game just because the developer is friendly. I'm sure a bunch of people on Mii-verse will do exactly that though. Buy the games that are good and that you'll enjoy - not the ones made by a developer who gave a 'Yeah' to a couple of your posts. It's good marketing for his game, that's for sure, but a lot of Mii-verse is kids - it'd be a shame if his game turns out horrible and many of them bought it anyway.

Transparency and interaction with the community is something that's important on PC, where updates and patches are pretty damn common. On consoles the behaviour isn't really seen because it's not needed.

Why is it not needed on consoles?

Because console games in comparison with PC games oh so rarely get content patches or continual updates. Sure, it happens sometimes, but even then its to a much lesser degree. Chances are this guys game will be released without any additional content or patches coming in the future. Don't get me wrong; talking to the customers is still good, it just doesn't mean anything for the product itself because its a single release.

But modern consoles are trying to become as easy to up date as PC. Most (if not all) are allowing free updates for games on their servers and encouraging developers to support their games after release

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/44243746261/nickels-dimes-and-quarters
http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/why-console-specs-dont-matter
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/200271/Video_Don_Daglow_on_nextgen_transition_traps_and_treasures.php

3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

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ACK

16. Posted:

DefHalan wrote:

ACK wrote:

No, I really don't. I'm not interested in developers panhandling through social media in snakeskin suits to gain affection. Let the games speak for themselves. I'll buy your game if it is good or even close. That's all I need.

But how does it negatively affect you when they do this?

Are you serious? I want good games to succeed. If there is a horde of gamers buying games as charity for internet personas they think they like, how does that affect the truly good games made by modest people who would rather put that time and effort to improving their product and/or making new, better games?

Do we want to support developers who are passionate about making games and expressing themselves? Or developers who are passionate about success and maintaining/improving their status as a developer? If that makes any sense...

Edited on by ACK

ACK

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DefHalan

17. Posted:

ACK wrote:

DefHalan wrote:

ACK wrote:

No, I really don't. I'm not interested in developers panhandling through social media in snakeskin suits to gain affection. Let the games speak for themselves. I'll buy your game if it is good or even close. That's all I need.

But how does it negatively affect you when they do this?

Are you serious? I want good games to succeed. If there is a horde of gamers buying games as charity for internet personas they think they like, how does that affect the truly good games made by modest people who would rather put that time and effort to improving their product and/or making new, better games?

Do we want to support developers who are passionate about making games and expressing themselves? Or developers who are passionate about success and maintaining/improving their status as a developer? If that makes any sense...

Good games will succeed, if a developer is very vocal and gets a few extra sales, but you don't buy it then it doesn't affect you. I like it when developers are vocal in the communities they are targeting. I like the idea that if I have an issue with a part in a game I can speak to the developer directly. One game getting a sale doesn't mean one game losing a sale.

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/44243746261/nickels-dimes-and-quarters
http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/why-console-specs-dont-matter
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/200271/Video_Don_Daglow_on_nextgen_transition_traps_and_treasures.php

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ACK

18. Posted:

DefHalan wrote:

ACK wrote:

DefHalan wrote:

ACK wrote:

No, I really don't. I'm not interested in developers panhandling through social media in snakeskin suits to gain affection. Let the games speak for themselves. I'll buy your game if it is good or even close. That's all I need.

But how does it negatively affect you when they do this?

Are you serious? I want good games to succeed. If there is a horde of gamers buying games as charity for internet personas they think they like, how does that affect the truly good games made by modest people who would rather put that time and effort to improving their product and/or making new, better games?

Do we want to support developers who are passionate about making games and expressing themselves? Or developers who are passionate about success and maintaining/improving their status as a developer? If that makes any sense...

Good games will succeed, if a developer is very vocal and gets a few extra sales, but you don't buy it then it doesn't affect you. I like it when developers are vocal in the communities they are targeting. I like the idea that if I have an issue with a part in a game I can speak to the developer directly. One game getting a sale doesn't mean one game losing a sale.

I mean, are we talking about a few extra sales, or a game/developer gain notoriety through social media (as the OP implies)?

Either way, good games often don't succeed. Bad games often do. Friendly (or otherwise) interaction with a developer has absolutely no bearing on the quality of a game. So, in my opinion, it should have no influence on whether a purchase is made or not.

ACK

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DefHalan

19. Posted:

ACK wrote:

DefHalan wrote:

ACK wrote:

DefHalan wrote:

ACK wrote:

No, I really don't. I'm not interested in developers panhandling through social media in snakeskin suits to gain affection. Let the games speak for themselves. I'll buy your game if it is good or even close. That's all I need.

But how does it negatively affect you when they do this?

Are you serious? I want good games to succeed. If there is a horde of gamers buying games as charity for internet personas they think they like, how does that affect the truly good games made by modest people who would rather put that time and effort to improving their product and/or making new, better games?

Do we want to support developers who are passionate about making games and expressing themselves? Or developers who are passionate about success and maintaining/improving their status as a developer? If that makes any sense...

Good games will succeed, if a developer is very vocal and gets a few extra sales, but you don't buy it then it doesn't affect you. I like it when developers are vocal in the communities they are targeting. I like the idea that if I have an issue with a part in a game I can speak to the developer directly. One game getting a sale doesn't mean one game losing a sale.

I mean, are we talking about a few extra sales, or a game/developer gain notoriety through social media (as the OP implies)?

Either way, good games often don't succeed. Bad games often do. Friendly (or otherwise) interaction with a developer has absolutely no bearing on the quality of a game. So, in my opinion, it should have no influence on whether a purchase is made or not.

Good games don't succeed as often as Bad game do, which is pretty low. You are right, it should have no influence on people's decision to purchase a game or not, but the is in an ideal world. Indies don't have as much Marketing money as a lot of other games do, so they have to resort to other options. I am perfectly fine with that, and I am perfectly fine with Developers using Miiverse to communicate to their audience.

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/44243746261/nickels-dimes-and-quarters
http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/why-console-specs-dont-matter
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/200271/Video_Don_Daglow_on_nextgen_transition_traps_and_treasures.php

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shingi_70

20. Posted:

ACK wrote:

DefHalan wrote:

ACK wrote:

DefHalan wrote:

ACK wrote:

No, I really don't. I'm not interested in developers panhandling through social media in snakeskin suits to gain affection. Let the games speak for themselves. I'll buy your game if it is good or even close. That's all I need.

But how does it negatively affect you when they do this?

Are you serious? I want good games to succeed. If there is a horde of gamers buying games as charity for internet personas they think they like, how does that affect the truly good games made by modest people who would rather put that time and effort to improving their product and/or making new, better games?

Do we want to support developers who are passionate about making games and expressing themselves? Or developers who are passionate about success and maintaining/improving their status as a developer? If that makes any sense...

Good games will succeed, if a developer is very vocal and gets a few extra sales, but you don't buy it then it doesn't affect you. I like it when developers are vocal in the communities they are targeting. I like the idea that if I have an issue with a part in a game I can speak to the developer directly. One game getting a sale doesn't mean one game losing a sale.

I mean, are we talking about a few extra sales, or a game/developer gain notoriety through social media (as the OP implies)?

Either way, good games often don't succeed. Bad games often do. Friendly (or otherwise) interaction with a developer has absolutely no bearing on the quality of a game. So, in my opinion, it should have no influence on whether a purchase is made or not.

The indie or AA market is built upon social interaction though and cult of personality. I backed the double fine games, Cosmic Star Heroine, and Pillars of Eternity becuase I really like the developers. Even on the eshop or XBLA I tend to support games that are good but also buy devs I trust like Renegade Kidd. Even in the AAA market were seeing this, seeing the Nintendo press bracket and guys like Phil Spencer rallies the fanbase and as a whole makes it much more fun.

Plus for certian genres such as racing or fighting or multiplayer games that will get heavy support like Halo or Dota 2 that interaction between the community and the developers is invaluable.

WAT!

Hey check out my awesome new youtube channel shingi70 where I update weekly on the latest gaming and comic news form a level headed perspective.

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