Wii U Virtual Console Forum

Topic: Is Wii U VC keeping pace with Wii VC?

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2Sang

41. Posted:

They definitely need to pick up the pace, but the fact that Earthbound was released is more than enough for me to go on the wii u eshop....provided nintendo can get me to buy a wii u.

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skywake

42. Posted:

DudeSean wrote:

Ootfan98 wrote:

I thought that Majora's Mask also required the expansion pack. This is available on the Wii VC

Yeah, but Majora's Mask didn't use an expansion pak to prevent it from crashing. It used the expansion pak because it actually made use of it. DK64 wasn't made to be played with the expansion, it just so happened that the expansion pak prevented the glitch. What I'm saying is, that perhaps whatever problem they were having with the n64 they are now having with the Wii and Wii U, and emulating an expansion pak might not solve the problem this time. Just an idea.

Does it really need to "emulate" the expansion pack? It was nothing more than extra RAM. The emulators running these games on the Wii U have a good 1GB of RAM available to them, I'm sure pushing the RAM usage in the game from 4MB to 8MB isn't much of an issue. Also faster by something like 24x.

It's not like them having to program in support for rumble, memory paks or different controllers. It's RAM.

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Sean_Aaron

43. Posted:

Zach wrote:

What an incredible thing it would have been, and perfectly timed, if we got at least one DKC game to celebrate the release of Tropical Freeze. Could the rights really be that hard to acquire? What of all this talk that Nintendo owns Donkey Kong 64 and can port it to VC, the obvious implication being that Rare's not even part of the negotiation equation?

Of course, we all know that can't be completely true, or why would Nintendo have retired all three DKC games from the Wii VC in 2012? Of course, that makes for another fun reminder of how much the Wii U VC is lagging behind: we can't even swallow our pride and get it on the Wii Shop via the Wii Channel this time.

Let's all go play Renegade!!!

This is the company that doesn't release the arcade version of Donkey Kong despite it continuing to get attention from people trying to best the world record. They could charge $10 and people would buy it, but they can't be bothered for whatever reason. I have no problem believing they could release DKC or DK64, but haven't because of no reason.

BLOG, mail: sean@seanswiiworld.co.uk
Nintendo ID: sean.aaron

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DudeSean

44. Posted:

@skywake Ugh... totally missing the point of my post.

"Emulating an expansion pak," the emulator making use of more of the Wii U's RAM, whatever. The point is, that whatever method they use, it might not be fixing the glitch that the expansion pak on the n64 fixed.

Edited on by DudeSean

DudeSean

Nintendo Network ID: DudeSean

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Caryslan

45. Posted:

Sean_Aaron wrote:

Zach wrote:

What an incredible thing it would have been, and perfectly timed, if we got at least one DKC game to celebrate the release of Tropical Freeze. Could the rights really be that hard to acquire? What of all this talk that Nintendo owns Donkey Kong 64 and can port it to VC, the obvious implication being that Rare's not even part of the negotiation equation?

Of course, we all know that can't be completely true, or why would Nintendo have retired all three DKC games from the Wii VC in 2012? Of course, that makes for another fun reminder of how much the Wii U VC is lagging behind: we can't even swallow our pride and get it on the Wii Shop via the Wii Channel this time.

Let's all go play Renegade!!!

This is the company that doesn't release the arcade version of Donkey Kong despite it continuing to get attention from people trying to best the world record. They could charge $10 and people would buy it, but they can't be bothered for whatever reason. I have no problem believing they could release DKC or DK64, but haven't because of no reason.

Believe it or not, there may be a valid reason why Nintendo can't release the arcade versions of Donkey Kong or Donkey Kong Jr

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/134790/the_secret_histo...

In case nobody wants to read through it, the article brings up the fact that Nintendo does not own the code to the arcade version of Donkey Kong. Nintendo used an outside developer to help them make the game, and this company Ikegami owned the manufacturing rights to the arcade version of Donkey Kong, as well as the code to the arcade version.

Ikegami ended up suing Nintendo after they went behind their back, and not only started making Donkey Kong cabinets on their own, but reverse engineered DK's code to make Donkey Kong Jr.

So, long story short, Nintendo worked with an outside developer to make the first Donkey Kong, and then started making their own boards despite not owning the code and breaking an contract.

The two parties settled the case in 1990, and the court ruled that Nintendo did not own the code to Donkey Kong.

That could be the reason why Nintendo has never made the arcade versions of Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr available on the Virtual Console. Legally, since Nintendo does not own the code to the arcade version of Donkey Kong, and since Donkey Kong Jr is also built on that same code, Nintendo would be putting out a game they legally don't have any rights too, and could owe royalties to another company if they did put it back out.

Radar Scope was also made by Ikegami, so that may be covered as well. As for Mario Bros, Donkey Kong 3, and the arcade Punch Out games, I'm not sure if their code had any basis with the one Ikegami built for Nintendo.

But, this may shed some light as to why we always get the NES versions of Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr.

As for the Donkey Kong Country and Donkey Kong Land games, that may also be held up by legal issues since Microsoft now owns them. Again, those are games that I don't think Nintendo fully owns.

Caryslan

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skywake

46. Posted:

DudeSean wrote:

@skywake Ugh... totally missing the point of my post.

"Emulating an expansion pak," the emulator making use of more of the Wii U's RAM, whatever. The point is, that whatever method they use, it might not be fixing the glitch that the expansion pak on the n64 fixed.

No I wasn't, if DK64 had a memory leak that caused problems with 4MB of RAM but not 8MB then that's not an issue. The bug shouldn't present itself or be much of a problem at all given that the Wii U has 1GB of RAM at its disposal.....

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Sean_Aaron

47. Posted:

@Caryslan Thanks for that - now that makes sense! I can imagine licensing the code would cost a bundle and be a public relations issue for them. The simple fact is that I rarely fire up MAME so I might pick up those NES DK games after all; it was the idea of the arcade games being held back that was preventing me. Hopefully that deluxe NES DK will get an airing again!

Of course this example of them losing the right to publish over code ownership would be even more reason I'd think they would have taken more care with DKC, so I'm still not convinced that MS owns any IP there.

BLOG, mail: sean@seanswiiworld.co.uk
Nintendo ID: sean.aaron

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speedyboris

48. Posted:

Caryslan wrote:

Believe it or not, there may be a valid reason why Nintendo can't release the arcade versions of Donkey Kong or Donkey Kong Jr

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/134790/the_secret_histo...

In case nobody wants to read through it, the article brings up the fact that Nintendo does not own the code to the arcade version of Donkey Kong. Nintendo used an outside developer to help them make the game, and this company Ikegami owned the manufacturing rights to the arcade version of Donkey Kong, as well as the code to the arcade version.

Ikegami ended up suing Nintendo after they went behind their back, and not only started making Donkey Kong cabinets on their own, but reverse engineered DK's code to make Donkey Kong Jr.

So, long story short, Nintendo worked with an outside developer to make the first Donkey Kong, and then started making their own boards despite not owning the code and breaking an contract.

The two parties settled the case in 1990, and the court ruled that Nintendo did not own the code to Donkey Kong.

That could be the reason why Nintendo has never made the arcade versions of Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr available on the Virtual Console. Legally, since Nintendo does not own the code to the arcade version of Donkey Kong, and since Donkey Kong Jr is also built on that same code, Nintendo would be putting out a game they legally don't have any rights too, and could owe royalties to another company if they did put it back out.

Radar Scope was also made by Ikegami, so that may be covered as well. As for Mario Bros, Donkey Kong 3, and the arcade Punch Out games, I'm not sure if their code had any basis with the one Ikegami built for Nintendo.

But, this may shed some light as to why we always get the NES versions of Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr.

And wouldn't that also rule out Donkey Kong 64 coming to VC, since that contains the original arcade version as an unlockable?

speedyboris

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SparkOfSpirit

49. Posted:

speedyboris wrote:

Caryslan wrote:

Believe it or not, there may be a valid reason why Nintendo can't release the arcade versions of Donkey Kong or Donkey Kong Jr

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/134790/the_secret_histo...

In case nobody wants to read through it, the article brings up the fact that Nintendo does not own the code to the arcade version of Donkey Kong. Nintendo used an outside developer to help them make the game, and this company Ikegami owned the manufacturing rights to the arcade version of Donkey Kong, as well as the code to the arcade version.

Ikegami ended up suing Nintendo after they went behind their back, and not only started making Donkey Kong cabinets on their own, but reverse engineered DK's code to make Donkey Kong Jr.

So, long story short, Nintendo worked with an outside developer to make the first Donkey Kong, and then started making their own boards despite not owning the code and breaking an contract.

The two parties settled the case in 1990, and the court ruled that Nintendo did not own the code to Donkey Kong.

That could be the reason why Nintendo has never made the arcade versions of Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr available on the Virtual Console. Legally, since Nintendo does not own the code to the arcade version of Donkey Kong, and since Donkey Kong Jr is also built on that same code, Nintendo would be putting out a game they legally don't have any rights too, and could owe royalties to another company if they did put it back out.

Radar Scope was also made by Ikegami, so that may be covered as well. As for Mario Bros, Donkey Kong 3, and the arcade Punch Out games, I'm not sure if their code had any basis with the one Ikegami built for Nintendo.

But, this may shed some light as to why we always get the NES versions of Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr.

And wouldn't that also rule out Donkey Kong 64 coming to VC, since that contains the original arcade version as an unlockable?

It's definitely one of the reasons.

DK64 has a lot stacked against it.

“A thing may be too sad to be believed or too wicked to be believed or too good to be believed; but it cannot be too absurd to be believed in this planet of frogs and elephants, of crocodiles and cuttle-fish.”
― G.K. Chesterton

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JCnator

50. Posted:

I'm pretty sure that the much slower trickle of Virtual Console titles on both Wii and Wii U could be attributed to WiiWare's launch back in 2008. Before that, the only things you could download between Wii's launch day and early 2008 were the retro games. Even a single N64 title managed to appear on that catalog when the Wii Shop Channel first came live. And also, 2 to 4 VC games were the norm. After WiiWare surfaced on, Nintendo and co. were becoming less keen on bringing downloadable retro titles. And the problem even persisted on 3DS and Wii U VC service too.

There is a silver lining behind the discrepancy between Wii and Wii U VC titles. At some point in Iwata's investor meeting, he planned to merge handheld device and home console development teams into one division and create a system that can absorb the Wii U architecture adequately. It could mean that Wii U VC titles won't have to be lodged in a separate menu à la Wii U's Wii Menu, and Nintendo won't have to bother going through the licensing hoops for getting the same retro games available one more time for a long while at least. By the time the company launches a new console, that library built for Wii U would be definitely there at launch. Therefore, I don't care if it takes long to reach the same level the Wii Shop Channel offered. Better yet, a future handheld system can play these ports without a hitch. If you were wondering why GBA titles are releasing on Wii U instead of 3DS, this is most likely the reason Nintendo is going for.

JCnator

3DS Friend Code: 4124-5032-5582 | Nintendo Network ID: JCnator_U

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Sean_Aaron

51. Posted:

Well they could remove the arcade code from DK64 and replace it with the NES version or leave it out entirely. Might also be another reason why it's delayed - why not just do an HD remake of it a la Wind Waker and get around all that?

BLOG, mail: sean@seanswiiworld.co.uk
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skywake

52. Posted:

@JCnator
Slowing the release of games when they've gotten to the point where they've basically exhausted the library is one thing. Being slow before you've even developed much of a library is entirely different. Right now the Wii U tends to get one VC title and one indie title a week. So it's not like we're being flooded with content on the platform.

Plus the whole rant about "merging" the platforms. The thing is back before the Wii U launched plenty of people assumed that the Wii VC library would just carry over. That they'd done all the work getting the legal stuff done and they'd just put the games on it. When it wasn't out immediately the thought was that they were getting the emulators right and that when that was done the floodgates would open. When THAT didn't happen we assumed that they'd start churning them out quickly, five a week or so, until the library was filled out.

None of that happened. Instead the flow of VC titles is somewhere between zero and one every week. What's more a year in and we're still sitting with a VC that's just NES and SNES titles. Not impressive at all.

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DudeSean

53. Posted:

speedyboris wrote:

And wouldn't that also rule out Donkey Kong 64 coming to VC, since that contains the original arcade version as an unlockable?

I think a better question is: If Nintendo didn't have the rights to the DK Arcade game, how did it end up in DK64 in the first place?

@skywake Have an open mind and quit automatically shooting down everything I say, please. You're kind of being a jerk.

DudeSean

Nintendo Network ID: DudeSean

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Sean_Aaron

54. Posted:

DudeSean wrote:

speedyboris wrote:

And wouldn't that also rule out Donkey Kong 64 coming to VC, since that contains the original arcade version as an unlockable?

I think a better question is: If Nintendo didn't have the rights to the DK Arcade game, how did it end up in DK64 in the first place?

Well they would likely have paid royalties/license money to Ikegami. Given we haven't seen the arcade games since I'm guessing they don't want to do that again for whatever reason. I wouldn't be surprised if they made an approach in the Wii days and the price was higher than they wanted to pay. Of course it's also worth noting that DK 3 (unlike DK Jr., which triggered the lawsuit) doesn't appear to share DK code so they could release the arcade version. So I'm back to thinking they just aren't interested, but since we don't know the terms of the out of court settlement we can only guess about all of these things!

Edited on by Sean_Aaron

BLOG, mail: sean@seanswiiworld.co.uk
Nintendo ID: sean.aaron

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SparkOfSpirit

55. Posted:

If they can do all that for DK64 why can't they just do it for Diddy Kong Racing instead since it would require less work to replace two characters? That actually got a remake for the DS, but has never come to the VC despite being rather easy to fix in comparison to DK64's issues.

“A thing may be too sad to be believed or too wicked to be believed or too good to be believed; but it cannot be too absurd to be believed in this planet of frogs and elephants, of crocodiles and cuttle-fish.”
― G.K. Chesterton

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skywake

56. Posted:

DudeSean wrote:

@skywake Have an open mind and quit automatically shooting down everything I say, please. You're kind of being a jerk.

If I came across as a "jerk" then I apologise, that wasn't my intent. I was just saying that the memory leak bug shouldn't be an issue given the amount of memory they have to play with. I don't think this would be the issue. The issue is more likely something non-technical I would guess.

As for the "shooting down" everything you say. Well it doesn't help that you were kinda being a jerk in the first place with the overly pedantic complaint about the use of the word "unique". It was damn clear what @Zach was saying. And don't think I was singling you out given that most of the posts I have made in this thread haven't been anything to do with you.

If you don't want to be "shot down" try saying stuff that I agree with more. Maybe then we can stop shooting each other down. Pot meet kettle ;)

NNID: skywake

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Zach

57. Posted:

If some among you keep fighting about appropriate words, there'll be no more VC games for anyone. Here's something no one can disagree with: I'm too lazy to change the wording any more, and frankly I just don't care. We all understand what I meant? Even if some of us would have chosen a different word? Good. Let's never speak of it again.

Edited on by Zach

Zach

Twitter: zachkaplan

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Ootfan98

58. Posted:

there's only one way to settle this....................FIGHT

(in the voice of Harry Hill)

Edited on by Ootfan98

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skywake

59. Posted:

NNID: skywake

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DudeSean

60. Posted:

skywake wrote:

DudeSean wrote:

@skywake Have an open mind and quit automatically shooting down everything I say, please. You're kind of being a jerk.

If I came across as a "jerk" then I apologise, that wasn't my intent. I was just saying that the memory leak bug shouldn't be an issue given the amount of memory they have to play with. I don't think this would be the issue. The issue is more likely something non-technical I would guess.

As for the "shooting down" everything you say. Well it doesn't help that you were kinda being a jerk in the first place with the overly pedantic complaint about the use of the word "unique". It was damn clear what @Zach was saying. And don't think I was singling you out given that most of the posts I have made in this thread haven't been anything to do with you.

If you don't want to be "shot down" try saying stuff that I agree with more. Maybe then we can stop shooting each other down. Pot meet kettle ;)

Well, I didn't realize the issue with DK64 was a memory leak. I guess that makes sense, but I've never heard from an official source that the problem with DK64 was in fact a memory leak. But, still, I'm considering the possibility that it could be a technical issue but also that it may be a legal issue. I don't know. I'm just trying to keep an open mind.

I was being a jerk in the first place? I was asking a question and giving my thoughts. Zach didn't respond to me, though, so I guess you felt it was your place to explain it for him? I just wanted to hear it from him, honestly. I certainly don't consider it to be a big deal, which is why I said, "my two cents." I don't think anyone has ever considered 2 cents to be a big deal, except maybe a long time ago or in a really poor country.

Ha, well, I'm not just going to be a suck up to try to win you over. Granted, you seem like a cool guy, but I'm just going to continue to be honest because that's who I am. I may not have unpopular opinions, but I have the right to express myself like everyone else.

Also, lol @ the video.

DudeSean

Nintendo Network ID: DudeSean