Topic: NINTENDO is alienating its hardcore audience

My personal definitions:

Casual game: A game targeted towards people who don't usually play/like games, and are not really into the gaming scene. These games appeal to non-gamers because they are just virtual renditions of non-gaming entertainment/activities, such as working out, having a pet, learning a language. I also consider casual games titles like Ninjabread Man and Action Girlz Racing, because they aim people who can't identify a bad game.

Hardcore game: A game targeted towards people who like videogames and are informed about the gaming industry, people who consider themselves gaming fans. Despite several of these games being appealing to casual gamers, their main target are people who have played their protosequels, or are informed about the game before its release.

I personally don't think difficulty is that important. My Chinese Coach and Sudoku games can be pretty difficult, and that doesn't make them hardcore.

My definition...

Hardcore = assholes
Casual = normal people

When you think about if you take all the good games for the Wii and divide them into Casual and Hardcore they'd be about even. It's just there are so many casual games that are pure shovelware. And I don't think we need examples.

That's pretty much accurate. Here's a glimpse of what the 'hardcore' define it as. Don't be misled by long paragraphs of explanation, this is all it boils down to.

Hardcore: Glorious, artistic, refined, high class. A man of dignity and grace. The only one who can properly judge whether a game is good or not. Constant pursuit of fine art. Tastes the fruits of gaming like one who taste fine wine. A true visionary, and a cut above the masses.

Casual: RETARDED STUNTED PLEBIANS! They do not know the difference between art and trash! They only WISH they were refined as I! They don't DESERVE to be a part of MY gaming! MY culture! ARGH!

But don't feel bad hardcore. When your second generation of gaming started excelling the NES to glory, to iconic status, dethroning my arcades and my 'beautifully advanced' gaming dedicated computers, I was just like you. Soon enough you'll realize what a joke it is to take games too seriously, and in a couple decades, you get to watch a new generation of hardcore implode in on themselves when the next wave of reinvention happens, and laugh wondering 'Was I really this uptight?'. S'all good.

Seriously guys, what is the point in debating what casual and hardcore are!? As I said before, you all know what it means. To argue over semantics like this is both pedantic and asinine, and it detracts away from the main point of the topic.

How about trying to address the point at hand, and just accept that casual and hardcore are inaccurate labels (but you know what they mean, anyways).

How about this: Is Nintendo alienating the 'traditional' gamers - those people who enjoyed videogames being serious, and are not part of the recent batch of converts. At the end of the day, there will probably be some who even argue with that definition, but it's frankly becoming a bore to read the same argument all over the site just because someone uses the word 'hardcore'. </rant>

I honestly don't know what it means. They each have a wide variety of meanings that context does not always immediately clarify, and the fact that everyone tends to make up his own definitions complicates this further. I hardly even understood the Nintendo Life roundtable, though it was interesting anyway.

Does anyone know if they are going to come out with/want the to come out with... Jazz Jackrabbit, Toy Story, Aero The Acrobat, any decent non arcade game for the N64, SNES, NES, or SEGA Genesis??

You know what? We have been using the terms hardcore and casual a lot.
But,think about this:
Did the terms hardcore and casual existed before the Wii launched? No. Did casual titles existed before the Wii? Yes.
Let me give you an example:Who Wants to be a Millionaire? was released for the Playstation. If the terms hardcore and casual existed back then,the game would have been labled a casual title. So casual games have existed at least since the 32 bit era,if not earlier. The only difference is we are getting a lot of casual games on the Wii rather then the Xbox 360 is because the Wii appeals to kids.
Another example:It's My Birthday will be more popular on the Wii because it's simpler motion controls and the Wii's family friendly atomsphere. Whereas releasing it on the Xbox 360 wouldn't benefit 2K games as because adults and Halo fanboys play the Xbox 360 more and not too many kids play it.

But let's talk about what casual and hardcore really means. I have come to this conclusion recently that these terms don't exist. Now before everybody here chew me out,consider this:

Casual means play games in moderation right? Well,just about every game can be labled casual then. Because utimately you can play any video game in moderation. So that means hardcore refers to someone who plays games non-stop. So ultimately,we need to understand that these terms are mislabled terms.

There is ultimately just good [hardcore] or bad [casual] games for the Wii not casual or hardcore.
Does anybody understand?

I understand, Super Sonic, though if we are to use those definitions, I was a hardcore Jeopardy Junior (NES) player when I was little.

Exactly! It's at least a more accurate term. Also,shovelware DOES exist like It's My Birthday for example.

Casual games can keep your girlfriend from complaining about you playing all the time. You can show them how fun and engrossing gaming can be. Thank you casual games you saved my relationship. They will always make "Hardcore games" and "Casual Games" live with it, cause it is not going to change.

I thik that the casual and hardcore terms do make sense when used to describe the player, not the game.
For instance, a casual player plays Wii Sports with friends just for fun while a hardcore player wants to complete all the training modes and get all medals. For me the great majority of games can be playerd by casual and hardcore players, although there are some directed mainly to casual (like It's My Birthday, lol) and others to hardcore players like Megaman 9.
The problem is that the Wii has too much shallow games made only for the casual player.

@Nanaki:

I like traditional gamer ^^ It sounds much better than []hardcore[/]. And yes, shovelware does exist, and non-traditional gamers (for a lack of a term that doesn't hurt susceptibilities) are more likely to buy those games.

Its Nintendo's decision if they want games for families. Many politicans won't shut up about how "VIDEO GAMES ARE CORRUPTING OUR CHILDREN OH NOES!" Bullshit, Nintendo makes games for famililes so they can have fun. I don't care if there is another hardcore game on there, I can survive but playing their games and franchises like Mario Galaxy and Twilight Princess

^ Yeah, Nintendo has always been family friendly. Even the NES and SNES were called Famicom and Super Famicom in Japan (Famicom = Family Computer). Wii is not different, except for the ridiculous amount of cheap casual shovelware, and lack of high quality games like Galaxy, TP, Corruption, etc,

The topic should be changed to: "There are too many hardcore casual games."

The Wii is getting more and more hardcore games. New Super Mario Bros Wii is a recently released hardcore game. Next year, we have Super Mario Galaxy 2 and Metroid:Other M to look forward to. You can't tell me those games are not hardcore.

Hyper Luigi is reigniting threads, in a hardcore manner.

@HL: none of the games you mentioned were revealed until at least a month later than the last post to this thread. please stop bumping old threads if you've got nothing better to do than attempt to refute what someone had to say back when we had no idea that those things were even coming. :/