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Topic: Metroid: Other M Hype/Discussion Thread (MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS SO BE CAREFUL)

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RudysaurusRex

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Edited on by RudysaurusRex

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bezerker99

I've been imagining the development process must have gone something like this.

Sakamoto: Okay. So in Project M, Samus has just lost her baby metroid, and we all know how emotional girls get when their Tamagotchi die--this is like ten times worse. Samus is going to have her own special brand of woman crazy in this game. Also Mother Brain is back in angry little girl form because my daughter hates me right now.

Team Ninja: uh... We have some story ideas too.

Sakamoto: Look guys we just hired you to handle the technical stuff you aren't authorized to help with the story, Nintendo is perfectly capable of creating exciting new storylines without you. Also Project M will be an origins story for Adam Malkovich. I'm picturing Malkovich as a young powerful Yoshio Sakamoto; you know, the sort of daddy figure women exhibit strange obedience for. He'll eventually sacrifice everything and save the day.

Team Ninja: Isn't Samus going to save the day?

Sakamoto: Haven't you been listening? She's going to be too busy with cyborg PMS to stand a chance against the new unfreezable metroids. Then after Adam dies a bigger hero than anyone ever in the history of video games, his death gives Samus...

Team Ninja: Excuse me, Sakamoto-san? But "unfreezable metroids"? Unfreezable isn't a word and doesn't that sound like something a three year old would make up?

Sakamoto: Dude, don't be a dork. It's just a video game.

^ OMG - thanks - I really needed that on this slow Monday. Hahaha!

Deviant_Mugen

Yes, there is an official Metroid manga, and the Samus that appears in it is the Samus that was finally established in Other M. She isn't a stone-cold killing machine; she's a fragile woman with a tragic past who just happens to kick ass and take names. I will agree that Other M didn't really lay in some of the groundwork that should've been there (i.e., establishing that Ridley was the one that killed Samus's mom before her eyes when she was a child), but other than that, it in no way bastardized her character like all these so-called fans are claiming. Also, regarding the ass shots, just look at who developed the game and you have your answer...

Really, I tend to wonder just how many of the "fans" of the series have played any of the side-scrolling games. Personally, I think the Metroid series got a lot of its "fans" last-gen—certainly those crying sacrilege—when the Prime trilogy started. That's why so many were up in arms about Samus's character (and the controls, to an extent) in Other M, because they all envisioned Samus as Nintendo's master chief, only she was a woman in orange power armor blasting space pirates and metroids as opposed to the covenant (I think that's what the creatures were called, anyway).

As for those that did play the previous games and are going on about how Samus had never been shown in that light before; she had, you just didn't pick up on the subtle clues by yourself. The fact is, the previous games in the series did not feature cut-scenes where the story was plainly pointed out to you, you had to piece it together for yourself. Also, Fusion, Other M's sequel, shows Samus in exactly the same light. The difference? No voice acting. We get the same tone from her inner monologues all throughout the game, but the only difference is that you have to read them. I guarantee you that Samus would've been labeled as "emo" (I despise that term) had Fusion featured voice acting...

Anyway, I still can't believe that this thread was revived solely for the very trivial purpose of arguing semantics. I've said my piece, and I'll leave it at that...

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kkslider5552000

the key problem is you are ignoring the fact that Other M was written horribly.

And Fusion had like 1/5 of the dialogue for Samus that explained just as much information because it didn't treat it's audience like blind goldfish. SHOW DON'T TELL. Except for PTST, which should be told if you don't want your main character to suddenly look weak.

Like I said before, the only things they didn't make too obvious is the stuff that SHOULD HAVE BEEN MADE MORE OBVIOUS.

Edited on by kkslider5552000

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n0body

pixelman wrote:

@n0body, I have a hard time taking a game seriously if the game's director doesn't either. Getting butt shots and sexy poses in what are supposed to be highly emotionally scenes is crossing the line.

@romulux, that's interesting about the manga, but there's been absolutely none of that in any of the games, so it's really hard to take it seriously when by all appearances it's completely against her character. And if Nintendo considers its "true fans" to be the ones who read all of the manga and played every single game, then they just cut off a very large percentage of their Metroid fanbase. Hell, I didn't even know a manga existed until you brought it up. :/

Honestly, the idea of a mentally strained Samus who's having issues with guilt about past events sounds really cool. But again, they mentioned none of that in the game. We're only lead to believe that she feels motherly towards the baby Metroid and that she has a daddy complex with Adam. It sounds great for a Final Fantasy plot, but keep it out of my Metroid please.

alright, lets do this the hard way. The following is a compilation of every single shot of zero suit samus in other m.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKgnz3FRUD8
Being generous I'd say there are about a total of 8 shots where her butt is visible. The first two are clearly a result of the framing, since they are wide angle shots of Samus looking up at people on a higher platform, and all of them need to be in the frame. After that there are a few more where Samus is shown lying on her stomach after being shot by Adam. In these cases her front side is facing the floor (!)... After that there are a few more shots where Samus is talking to Adam and her butt is seen during a camera pan (I guess they wanted Adam not to face her when speaking, which makes sense in the context of the scene.). Another shot is right before she gives him the thumbs down which I'm not even sure can be described as an butt shot since it's in profile. That leaves one more shot where, once again, the camera is panning around Samus. All of these shots can be considered dynamic camera work, which is just a part of good cinematic presentation, and also fits into the sci-fi theme of disorientation, as can be seen in many movies of this genre. Furthermore, the use of third person shots from behind the back is nothing new in videogames, and it makes quite a bit of sense too.

The only thing you can try to argue IMO, is that Samus is built in a way that emphasizes her female parts more than absolutely necessary, in which case I'd point out that this is the LEAST cartoony and exaggerated character model she has ever received. Further more, the fact that she's only in her Zero suit when it makes sense to the story is also something you should consider. In total, including the gameplay sections and cinematics, this amounts to about 10 minutes out of a 10+ hour game, ie: a little more than 1% of the game's screen time.

If you want me to go on, you can also compare this percentage to the one for Samus' face and eyes, and I am sure you will find they receive SIGNIFICANTLY more screen time than her butt or boobs or any other part you fancy. Samus' face and eyes are even given special attention when she is in her armor, due to the transparent visor the developers implemented for this very reason. If you'd read the Iwata asks interviews with Sakamoto, you'd know that! Another thing you'd know is that D-Rockets, the CG production company for the game, wanted to have her in her Zero suit for even more shots, since it made their animation work much easier, and Sakamoto wouldn't budge on this issue!

Then again I guess you didn't notice all those other important points because you were too busy being enraged over a handful of scenes you considered to be perverse. Either that or you have the game constantly looping on those scenes exclusively so that they are the only thing you remember

Edited on by theblackdragon

n0body

romulux

for the record i don't think the manga is particularly good, nor do i think you should have to read it to understand other m. i was just offering it as proof that other m's samus has been around the whole time. skim through it if you want: http://metroid.retropixel.net/comics/metroidmanga/

as for why you didn't see her like this in the other games, was the capability even there in the 8 and 16-bit entries? it wasn't until the prime games that in depth storytelling became possible and they weren't made by the japanese staff. fusion and zero mission on the other hand were and they're very consistent with other m, hell, other m is practically a remake of fusion they're so similar.

again, not saying the game was perfect, i just don't agree with these particular criticisms. the reason i even want to argue about it is that people's overreaction to other m might have killed the series, at least for a few good years. it wasn't that bad by any stretch, but the outrage has certainly made nintendo feel that way.

by the way, the butt shots wouldn't be an issue if her suit weren't so revealing. no one would have noticed anything wrong with the camera work if she had a more modest outfit.... that's team ninja's contribution. at least you can admit that they did a nice job in the butt department.

Edited on by romulux

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retired_account

@Straw_Hat_Luffy: I'm getting sick of being grouped in the "omg Samus was a stone cold killer" crowd. I've never considered her as such, because that goes entirely against what the games have suggested. Also, Sakamoto was in charge of everything, and he could've managed the scenes better if he really wanted to. At least he cut them down from what Team Ninja originally wanted (at least that's what I read somewhere), but it was a mistake to bring them in to begin with.

Oh and for the record, I played Super Metroid before I played Metroid Prime, and Super is one of my favorite games of all-time. I think that's mostly why I dislike Other M so much, since it's so directly related to such a great game.

@n0body: I'm really not interested in your in-depth analysis of the camera angles in her zero suit segments. If they wanted to throw them in, I'm fine with that; just do it at a light-hearted point, not the two most critical and emotional scenes in the game. There's a time and place for everything.

And yeah, I thought it was most effective when you only saw her eyes in her power suit; the Ridley scene was a great example of that. Can you imagine how much more moving the final scene with Adam would've been if Samus's power suit was broken down, sparking, and you could only see the desperation in her eyes? But no, Sakamoto took the campy route and made the scene completely ridiculous.

@romulux: Ninja Gaiden on the NES handled cutscenes really well, so yeah, it was possible. :3

I've always liked Samus, and it just pisses me off the way they handled her in this game. And the game itself is a sub-par action game to boot.

Edited on by retired_account

retired_account

SKTTR

pixelman wrote:

@n0body, I have a hard time taking a game seriously if the game's director doesn't either. Getting butt shots and sexy poses in what are supposed to be highly emotionally scenes is crossing the line.

Hey. This is just a goodlooking girl in her latex suit going through really bad times and all you do is watching her butt.
thank you for not bringing the insults to this thread — TBD

@Straw_Hat_Luffy: Glad you've commented again. I couldn't read the whole thread (too much) and appreciate you repeating yourself. 100% agree with everything you say.
I never thought people would compare Metroid to Halo though - because Metroid is thankfully very different from that generic PC game.

@ n0body: Thanks for bringing up that link. It's proof that there's definately serious butt lacking in that game.

Edited on by theblackdragon

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Meta-Rift

romulux wrote:

as for why you didn't see her like this in the other games, was the capability even there in the 8 and 16-bit entries?

Capability has absolutely nothing to do with this. 8-bit and 16-bit consoles some of the best stories, characters, and dialogue in any video game, even by today's standards.

romulux wrote:

other m is practically a remake of fusion they're so similar.

I agree, but that doesn't explain why they suddenly gave Samus a different personality for Other M.

Meta-Rift

hylianhalcyon

pixelman wrote:

I've always liked Samus, and it just pisses me off the way they handled her in this game. And the game itself is a sub-par action game to boot.

This is my stance on Other M.

"People who alter or destroy works of art and cultural heritage for profit, or as an exercise of power, are barbarians." - George Lucas, 1988

retired_account

@SKTTR: Sorry, but if you want to troll me you'll have to do better than that. :3

retired_account

CanisWolfred

kkslider5552000 wrote:

the key problem is you are ignoring the fact that Other M was written horribly.

And Fusion had like 1/5 of the dialogue for Samus that explained just as much information because it didn't treat it's audience like blind goldfish. SHOW DON'T TELL. Except for PTST, which should be told if you don't want your main character to suddenly look weak.

Like I said before, the only things they didn't make too obvious is the stuff that SHOULD HAVE BEEN MADE MORE OBVIOUS.

Wow, for once I agree with you.

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n0body

We really need a woman or two in this discussion... preferably ones who have played the game..

n0body

theblackdragon

That woman is apparently going to be me, even though I can't stand Metroid games and have never played M:OM. Let's keep the skeezy insults out of this thread, and watch the language while we're at it, please. :3

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Chrono_Cross

romulux wrote:

Kid_Crono wrote:

romulux wrote:

she recklessly makes a decision to save the baby metroid and it winds up killing a lot of scientists

Really? Because If I recall Ridley was the one who did that.

she saved it from sr388 instead of destroying it like she was ordered to is what i meant. it was a big risk but she thought she could keep it a secret, she was wrong and that's what led to ridley destroying the station and stealing the metroid, it was a direct result of her decision to save the baby. she was lucky enough to stop the cloning and wipe the pirates out in the process, otherwise she would have been in deep sh*t. the general at the end of other m even states as much and samus talks about adam losing respect for her for being so reckless.

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n0body

pixelman wrote:

@n0body: I'm really not interested in your in-depth analysis of the camera angles in her zero suit segments. If they wanted to throw them in, I'm fine with that; just do it at a light-hearted point, not the two most critical and emotional scenes in the game. There's a time and place for everything.

And yeah, I thought it was most effective when you only saw her eyes in her power suit; the Ridley scene was a great example of that. Can you imagine how much more moving the final scene with Adam would've been if Samus's power suit was broken down, sparking, and you could only see the desperation in her eyes? But no, Sakamoto took the campy route and made the scene completely ridiculous.

Saying you don't like the way the cinematography of one or two scenes was executed is quite different from saying the director didn't take the game as a whole seriously, don't you think? Even if you feel it was a terrible decision it's still only about one minute out of the entire experience. Where do you draw the line between being disappointed and being obsessive?

n0body

n0body

Let me say one more thing to everybody who's been using this thread as an opportunity to fling mud around.
It's called a DISCUSSION THREAD, ie: if you have something interesting and original to say, this is the place. If you want to continue finding creative ways to say "Other M is CRAP", "Sakamoto should be FIRED" and so on, you're not actually interested in discussing the game at all, are you?

Why don't you open a thread called "The Other M mud flinging thread" and continue there? I'll tell you why. It's because that thread would far too quickly be reduced to a boring pile of drivel unworthy of even an Internet forum, and you guys wouldn't have anything interesting to read in it, that's why!

You know what's NOT boring drivel?? You know what IS interesting to read?? Intelligent discussion backed up by actual information. Please feel welcome to contribute your own rather than leech off of other people's efforts.

n0body

grumblebuzzz

n0body wrote:

Let me say one more thing to everybody who's been using this thread as an opportunity to fling mud around.
It's called a DISCUSSION THREAD, ie: if you have something interesting and original to say, this is the place. If you want to continue finding creative ways to say "Other M is CRAP", "Sakamoto should be FIRED" and so on, you're not actually interested in discussing the game at all, are you?

Why don't you open a thread called "The Other M mud flinging thread" and continue there? I'll tell you why. It's because that thread would far too quickly be reduced to a boring pile of drivel unworthy of even an Internet forum, and you guys wouldn't have anything interesting to read in it, that's why!

You know what's NOT boring drivel?? You know what IS interesting to read?? Intelligent discussion backed up by actual information. Please feel welcome to contribute your own rather than leech off of other people's efforts.

This. All of it. So tired of this endless "debate". To the mud slingers, I hope you're happy to be killing a franchise that I love by being jerks. I wonder why Nintendo isn't doing anything to celebrate the 25th anniversary of Metroid this year...

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