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Topic: Metroid: Other M Hype/Discussion Thread (MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS SO BE CAREFUL)

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Adam

1,441. Posted:

That's what I meant, thanks for clarifying. Of course, there are ways to break the sequence in Super Metroid, so that's not entirely true. It's possible that Other M will be opened up that way, but I kindly doubt it. The sequence is too important to the plot, and the only way to do that -- as far as I see -- would be some insanely difficult bomb jumping across horizontal gaps, if it's possible to maintain that infinitely (only seen it used to cross small gaps so far).

Regarding theater mode, I very much disagree. You're losing out on the item hunting, which is perhaps the game's greatest strength. I, too, grew dissatisfied with the ridiculously overpowered sense move, but for a single playthrough the game does give you at least an impression of danger, which you don't get from theater mode, I don't think -- not that I've watched it. I just assume the replay doesn't include a bunch of mistakes. Could well be wrong about that if I had any interest in it whatsoever.

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Adam

1,442. Posted:

The power-ups are a huge let down, but finding them is fun. As the saying goes, it's not where you're going but how you get there that's the worthier part. I personally don't need a reward to do something fun.

I started to watch theater mode the night I beat it. It was really boring to me, and watching the game play seemed goofy. I don't notice how awkward it is for Samus to always be at a run when I control her, but take away that control, and it looks comical.

Edited on by Adam

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SilentJ

1,443. Posted:

Just got the speed booster. Yeah, I'm taking my sweet time with this one.

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ReddLionz

1,444. Posted:

@SilentJ
I'm really mad at myself for not doing the same thing. With most Metroid games, like Prime and Super, I usually tackle a little bit of the game every time I play, but with this game, I just shot through the whole think in like 3 days. I guess I wanted to find out who the Deleter was.

I also don't like that almost every single item I get is a missle tank. There is by far more missle tanks than any other Metroid game (I think), and getting them is just not as rewarding as Prime. Nontheless its still an amazing game.

Edited on by ReddLionz

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pixelman

1,445. Posted:

Zero Mission would be perfect if it had Super Metroid's incredible atmosphere, music, and level design. Honestly, the only thing I really like about ZM is its platformer physics. Super Metroid surpasses it in all other categories.

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Adam

1,446. Posted:

Zero Mission surpasses Super in challenge. Normal mode may be comparable, I don't remember, but it has a hard mode that makes the game much more fun.

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Kid_A

1,447. Posted:

weirdadam wrote:

And to poke my face in another conversation: D-Pad rules, analog stick drools. The analog stick would add absolutely nothing. It would be really frustrating to speed boost with the stick for one thing. If I hold it in one direction for awhile, it will slip, and the speed boost would be broken. Even if you had analog in other situations, it'd add nothing. Some suggest being able to point at the screen to shoot always, but you'd still be on auto-aim because the enemies are in foreground or background and IR doesn't know the difference (see S&P2 for more information). You'd be able to move in first-person, but why? Go play Prime if that's what you want. This is clearly a game designed for third-person.

Bless you for saying this. The people who complain about not being able to move in first person mode have completely missed the point of the game. The game wasn't meant to be experienced in first person. It's a 2D action game in a 3D environment. And even if it was full 3D, are you guys really telling me that Metroid is the only game where you can't move in first person? That exists in pretty much every 3D action game/platformer ever! Think Mario for a second--can't you go into first person in every 3D Mario game? Yes. Can you move in this mode? No. Why? Because it's just to get a better look at the environment. That's all Metroid Other M is doing; it just adds the ability to shoot as well (which, btw, has actually been done before. In Banjo Tooie).

Edited on by Kid_A

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romulux

1,448. Posted:

weirdadam wrote:

but it is linear. Very linear.

if we're talking about linearity i think fusion ranks first. you're given clear objectives that usually involve making it to a download station that's marked on your map even though it's just a few rooms away. other m is similar, but you often don't know what your objective is and to be honest i never checked the map to see where it was located. the layout of the rooms is linear enough that if you just wander through them you'll end up where you need to be, but when you don't keep track of where you're supposed to be going it still feels like you're exploring freely to me.

it's also the case that you're moving so fast that a more straightforward layout feels right. most of the hallways allow you to keep running unbroken through door after door without having to stop and choose a path to take. i didn't mind the more linear gameplay because it fit with the feel of the game really well.

it's important to realize though that there's no one right way to make a metroid game; if you make it too open like super metroid, people will complain about not knowing where to go and say that it's boring, then you make it more straightforward and linear and people complain that it's not open enough. i think other m's balanced enough between the two to be satisfying.

Edited on by romulux

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NotEnoughGolds

1,449. Posted:

weirdadam wrote:

Regarding the charge-screw-attack-thing, I'm very glad that's not in there. Screw attack makes the game pretty boring since every common enemy except for two or three of them dies in one hit from it. Also, am I imagining things, or wasn't that attack what they used to call shinespark? I was really confused when I authorized myself to use shinespark and that's what it was. I had figured that was just considered an extension of speed booster, not some distinct ability.

What charge screw attack?
And boosting, stopping (by crouching in Super Metroid or hitting 2 in Other M), then jumping super high or super far has always been shinespark. You automatically had access to it when you got the Speed Booster in SM, and I believe you automatically had access to it when you got the Speed Booster in this game.

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romulux

1,450. Posted:

when you charged up your beam and flipped in super metroid you would glow and do damage to enemies. it's not very powerful and lasts for only one hit, but it was basically a cool little version of the screw attack that allowed you to just run and jump through most common enemies. it was really helpful when trying to walljump with bugs flying around that might otherwise hit you.

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Kid_A

1,451. Posted:

romulux wrote:

weirdadam wrote:

but it is linear. Very linear.

if we're talking about linearity i think fusion ranks first. you're given clear objectives that usually involve making it to a download station that's marked on your map even though it's just a few rooms away. other m is similar, but you often don't know what your objective is and to be honest i never checked the map to see where it was located. the layout of the rooms is linear enough that if you just wander through them you'll end up where you need to be, but when you don't keep track of where you're supposed to be going it still feels like you're exploring freely to me.

it's also the case that you're moving so fast that a more straightforward layout feels right. most of the hallways allow you to keep running unbroken through door after door without having to stop and choose a path to take. i didn't mind the more linear gameplay because it fit with the feel of the game really well.

it's important to realize though that there's no one right way to make a metroid game; if you make it too open like super metroid, people will complain about not knowing where to go and say that it's boring, then you make it more straightforward and linear and people complain that it's not open enough. i think other m's balanced enough between the two to be satisfying.

I think you really hit the nail on the head here. The linear structure really worked for me here because the game just felt so satisfying to play--running full speed through narrow corridors while screw attacking enemies with the camera pulling back to a cinematic view just feels good. And when you think about it, the game really isn't that much more linear than Prime or Zero Mission. Prime always told you where to go next, as did Zero Mission. That's really all Other M is doing, but it feels slightly more linear simply because there's a lot more running left-to-right.

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Adam

1,452. Posted:

I never said it was the most linear. It and Fusion are about the same.

I don't see why being able to quickly backtrack should make exploration less optimal. On the contrary, Prime drew so many complaints about having to backtrack because it was so slow.

I do believe everyone knows there isn't one right way to make the games. I think I've been on record enough saying that I like Other M and Fusion a lot. There's only one Metroid game I didn't like, and most of you should know what it is by now, not that it was even that bad.

But Metroid's roots are in a much more free-form approach than Sakamoto's group's last three Metroid offerings. All I was saying is that the ideal Metroid in my opinion would harken back to the original trilogy's sense of having no direction.

Also, anyone who complains about not knowing where to go is an irrelevant voice in a Metroid discussion. That's like someone complaining in a Mario discussion that jumping is too difficult and you shouldn't have to jump. Not an invalid opinion, but an irrelevant one.

Edit: To take in account Kid A's comments: Again, I wasn't saying Other M was bad because it's linear. That quote keeps getting taken out of context as if I were criticizing Other M. I was describing my "ideal Metroid," so to speak. I know other games have done this objective thing before. And I liked Fusion, too, and Prime 1 kind of. And Zero Mission was good, though I hated being told where to go (not exactly a remake if you're going to undo one of the game's most defining features).

Anyway, I was just saying that if I could combine the strengths of all the series into one perfect Metroid game, the non-linearity of the first trilogy would definitely make the cut. I certainly would not call for an end to linear Metroid games, as they are now just as many as the non-linear ones, and nearly as good, though Super still sits at top for me.

Edited on by Adam

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Kid_A

1,453. Posted:

@Adam
I was just speaking in generalities; I wasn't trying to tear your point apart or anything. I agree with you actually--my ideal Metroid would be one that combines the 2D/3D nature of Other M but takes away all the hand-holding and guidance. I love nonlinear games. But I also feel that it's probably a good thing that not every Metroid game is like that. When I was younger I couldn't even touch Metroid Prime and Super Metroid--I got so lost and frustrated. I would have absolutely worshiped Other M (and I still do, to some extent). If nothing else, it's good to break up the formula a bit.

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romulux

1,454. Posted:

Adam wrote:

I never said it was the most linear.

i know what you were saying, i was just offering my opinion on where this game fits on the linearity scale. i happen to agree with you that my ideal metroid would play just like super, where you're left to figure it out on your own. an other m sequel with a slower pace and heavier atmosphere like that is about the best possible idea for the series i can imagine right now.

on that subject, nintendo seems to like making sequels when the engine for the original game took a lot of work to create, otherwise it seems like a waste of all that work. other m's engine almost certainly took a whole lot of work to form, so i'm hoping this is another majora's mask or galaxy 2 case. team ninja already really wants to make another one, at least. the story aspect is where a sequel gets hard to imagine, though; could they drop it and go back to a silent metroid now, or would they come up with another one?

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Adam

1,455. Posted:

Gotcha. Yea, I agree that it's good not to follow a formula like it's divine guidance. But Sakamoto's group's last three games were decidedly more linear than the original trilogy, so I don't know that that's what they're doing. I'm a bit worried this is the new direction and they're sticking to it. Clearly this isn't going to result in bad games, as Other M and the GBA titles surely attest to, but it is a big step away from what I consider to be the ultimate, yet-to-be-made Metroid. In my fantasy world, their next partnership would not be with Team Ninja but with Konami to create Super Duper Metroid: Mission of the Night. ...probably not going to happen. I'll settle for another Project M but with less handholding, or even a Hunters 2 for Wii or 3DS.

Edited on by Adam

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Kid_A

1,456. Posted:

Well it sounds like the next Metroid would take place after Fusion, which for me is very promising. The one thing Metroid Prime 2 really had going for it was that it was completely original in pretty much every way. A new planet, new creatures, new bosses. While I thought Other M had a great balance of new and nostalgia, I also want them to advance the franchise, and move the story forward. Would I like another epic Ridley fight? Sure, but at this point it would be outrageously forced.

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Adam

1,457. Posted:

It was pretty forced enough as it is. Kraid is the only one I'd really like to see transformed in 3D, but I hate cloning as a plot device (the only worse device would have to be: "It was all a dream"), and I can't think of any other excuse without going back in the timeline. My only hope is that someday they do another Prime game (please be Hunters 2) that brings him back and delivers that Sylux battle Corruption's hidden ending supposedly promises (never beat it myself, but heard about it). As for the next game after Fusion, they need all new stuff, enemies and power-ups. I just don't understand how they're going to keep explaining Samus's need to collect power-ups. It would be kind of ridiculous to start the game with screw attack and space jump.

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Aviator

1,458. Posted:

The next Metroid needs help when it comes to designing bosses though.

Phantoon, Ridley and the Lava Fish thing were great, but other than that, they were all a tad mediocre.

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Adam

1,459. Posted:

That post would probably be better off in the spoilers thread, though I guess both are spoiler threads now? But either way, I agree. The new bosses were mostly boring in comparison to returning bosses, including at least one you didn't mention.

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Aviator

1,460. Posted:

Oh yeah, the Queen Metroid. Duh.

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