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Topic: lol, Gamepro (Conduit Review)

Posts 41 to 60 of 60

Bahamut_ZERO

Man, I have my copy just sitting there, waiting to be used. but I'm off the to beach Friday, so I won't be able to play it untill I get back.

And to make things even worse the guy behind to counter gave me a Special Edition instead of the regular because "I'm a good customer"

Bahamut_ZERO

clicketyclick

AlexSays wrote:

clicketyclick wrote:

Adam wrote:

They were the first to compare it to a 360 game.
They also said it was the best looking Wii game (not one of the best, the best)

Could you provide links for those? And I hope you're not just going to turn up links of one guy from HVS saying "I feel that it looks the best"

I call your bluff.

LINK

And you only turned up a link saying that he FEELS it's the best-looking game. How do you do the eyerolling smiley on these forums? Saying that you feel a game looks the best is not the same as asserting that it is the best. I have extremely fond memories of Tomb Raider IV, and I probably liked that game the best, but that doesn't mean I'm saying that it is the best game in existence.

Now Playing: Bioshock

Adam

Actually, it is the same. Exactly the same. Whether or not he puts in a qualifying phrase to make it clear, either way he is stating his opinion that it is the best looking game on the Wii. That is basic English.

Also, I fail to see the problem with considering the company's producer to be responsible for the company's word. That's like saying if the President of McDonalds says "Our food is the healthiest food you can possibly eat" that we should not criticize the company for this stupid remark because only one employee said so.

Come on, friends,
To the bear arcades again.

clicketyclick

weirdadam wrote:

Actually, it is the same. Exactly the same. Whether or not he puts in a qualifying phrase to make it clear, either way he is stating his opinion that it is the best looking game on the Wii. That is basic English.

No, actually, stating that something IS ___ is not stating an opinion. It's making an assertion to truth and objectivity. A normative statement. Stating that I feel/thing/believe that something is ___ is stating an opinion. It's couching a claim in the language of subjectivity.

weirdadam wrote:

Also, I fail to see the problem with considering the company's producer to be responsible for the company's word.

Because, as I said, you're ignoring what everyone else who speaks for the company is saying. And you're only listening to the words of someone who didn't actually have a hand in developing the game. Producers "oversee", schedule, handle money, and assure shareholders and the general public.

Now Playing: Bioshock

AlexSays

clicketyclick wrote:

And you only turned up a link saying that he FEELS it's the best-looking game.

No it says WE.

As in THEY feel it's the best looking game on the Wii.

Now where's that link where one of them says Corruption looks better, Clickety?

Edited on by AlexSays

AlexSays

clicketyclick

AlexSays wrote:

No it says WE.

As in THEY feel it's the best looking game on the Wii.

Now where's that link where one of them says Corruption looks better, Clickety?

And again, as I said, the problem is he said "we FEEL", which is not the same as saying that it is the best-looking game. For example, you can disprove that it is the best-looking game. But you can't disprove what someone feels.

If I say that I feel that TP is really good and the best LoZ, and you say you feel it was really bad, then that's just lovely. We're all sharing our feelings. But if I claim that TP is better than OoT, you're perfectly entitled to say that TP is 'overappreciated' and that I'm wrong. See, you don't overhype games with opinions. You overhype them with claims.

Edited on by clicketyclick

Now Playing: Bioshock

Adam

Like AlexSaid, he says "WE," and as the company's producer, he is the only one qualified to speak for them all. Believe what you want, I don't care. Just don't throw around some ambiguous word for "people like me." No need to insult someone because you don't believe that the leading figure of a company doesn't speak for his company.

EDIT: Also, in regard to the other thing about "I feel," which I forgot to reply to, if you've been through an English 101 class even, you should know this by now. If I say "There is an invisible flying spaghetti monster in the sky who watches over me and all my favorite sports teams," there is an implied "I feel" qualifying that statement because it is my belief. Whether they write out the words "I feel" in their interview or not, the words are implied, and it's completely irrelevant. Either way we are dealing with their opinion.

Edited on by Adam

Come on, friends,
To the bear arcades again.

clicketyclick

weirdadam wrote:

Like AlexSaid, he says "WE," and as the company's producer, he is the only one qualified to speak for them all.

No, really no. He wasn't even involved in the development process, so it's hard to believe that his statements reflect the opinions and feelings of those who actually made the game.

In any case, your original claim was that they said it was the best-looking Wii game and so it was overhyped. They never actually said that. You can't overhype things with opinions, only claims. So it doesn't even matter whether or not you think he speaks for everyone, because he never made the claim you claimed that he claimed!

weirdadam wrote:

Also, in regard to the other thing about "I feel," which I forgot to reply to, if you've been through an English 101 class even, you should know this by now.

And if you had ever taken a Philosophy 101 class, you would have learned the difference between normative statements and opinion statements. When I say, "Murder is wrong," I don't mean to just say that it's merely my opinion. I mean to say that it is an objective fact, and everyone should agree, and if they don't, there is something wrong with their perspective.

Edited on by clicketyclick

Now Playing: Bioshock

Adam

It's an opinion statement by default. He is talking about graphics. You can't prove it one way or the other. I never said he was claiming it as an irrefutable fact. But hey, thanks for assuming I'm an idiot.

And if the company's leading figure can't speak for all of them, then what on earth is his purpose anyway? It's his role to speak for them, so whatever. Believe whatever you want about it, but no need to insult someone for a differing opinion.

Come on, friends,
To the bear arcades again.

clicketyclick

weirdadam wrote:

It's an opinion statement by default. He is talking about graphics. You can't prove it one way or the other. I never said he was claiming it as an irrefutable fact. But hey, thanks for assuming I'm an idiot.

It doesn't matter whether or not you can prove it. I can't prove that murder is wrong, but I still hold that when I say, "murder is wrong," I'm not just stating my opinion. You don't have to be able to prove something to claim that it's the truth and an objective fact.

weirdadam wrote:

Believe whatever you want about it, but no need to insult someone for a differing opinion.

Oh, sort of like your snarky comment about taking an English 101 class? Well, at least you provide me with examples of what you don't want me to do. Hmm, there's a word for people who do that too...

Now Playing: Bioshock

Adam

You started it.

But seriously, I was only defending what I said. I wasn't going out of my way to attack some harmless comment you had made and say there's some "word" for you. If I have a problem with a game, that's no reason for you to have a problem with me. No need to be rude about it.

Edited on by Adam

Come on, friends,
To the bear arcades again.

Corbs

Okay guys. Take it down a notch.

Plain old gamer :)

clicketyclick

Are you really meaning to claim that saying that there's a word for something is insulting? And I never even said what that word is, so even if you thought that you fit the description, you'd be the one responsible for making up the insult.

Anyway, the whole point of all this is to point out two things:
1) many different people representing HVS have said many different things about their feelings and have made disparate claims about the game. The unifying effect of considering all of them is that the company as a whole was not overhyping and overpromising and that they sure talk a lot.
2) they never actually claimed that it was the best-looking Wii game. The producer said he feels that it is. You can't hype a game on opinions: only on claims. Claims can be outrageous, but if everything is down to opinion on an issue, then nothing can be considered outrageous, because it's all opinion.

Now Playing: Bioshock

Adam

Graphics are opinionated by nature, so that's irrelevant. And obviously there was no time when the entire company came together and said as a chorus, "Conduit looks the best." You knew what was meant by the comment from the beginning. You're just splitting hairs.

Come on, friends,
To the bear arcades again.

clicketyclick

weirdadam wrote:

Graphics are opinionated by nature, so that's irrelevant. And obviously there was no time when the entire company came together and said as a chorus, "Conduit looks the best." You knew what was meant by the comment from the beginning. You're just splitting hairs.

What do you mean, it's opinionated by nature so it doesn't count? Morality is opinionated by nature, but you can still make normative claims about it, and that's the very reason that you have to be careful that you're distinguishing an opinion from a normative claim about morality.

And no, it isn't just splitting hairs. If some reviewer says that he really likes The Conduit and he feels that it's a great game, I'll think, "okay I'll take his opinion into consideration." I don't expect that I'll find it the same and don't let it change my expectations of the game, but I let it change the odds that I'll like the game (the more people who feel it's good, the more likely you'll also feel it's good.)

But if the dev says, "this game has 12 player online, a new engine, customizable controls, and the best graphics on Wii," then I'd think "so this game is supposed to have all these things and I expect it to have all these things he says it has." I really do let this influence by expectations of the game in a way that merely stating opinion does not. If devs make claims and then don't deliver on them, they deserve criticism for overhyping. If they merely state opinions you disagree with... well, can you fault them for liking their own game when you don't?

Edited on by clicketyclick

Now Playing: Bioshock

Adam

Clickety click, if you are going to continue comparing graphics to morality, I don't think I need to say anything more in response to your silly ideas.

This however needs refuting because it is a terrible, terrible lie:

Chicken+Brutus wrote:

Pac Man has better graphics than anything post 1983.

Ms. Pac Man looks better. She has a bow. FACT.

Edited on by Adam

Come on, friends,
To the bear arcades again.

clicketyclick

weirdadam wrote:

Clickety click, if you are going to continue comparing graphics to morality, I don't think I need to say anything more in response to your silly ideas.

Ah, thank you again for providing an example of insulting another user. I was a bit confused at first when you told me not to insult people who disagree, but now that you have repeatedly provided me with examples, I'll be able continue not insulting anyone.

Out of curiosity, what did you think the word was? And why is your quoting name not the same as your board name? And is your name Eugene?

Edited on by clicketyclick

Now Playing: Bioshock

Corbs

Alright, enough is enough.

Plain old gamer :)

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